Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - Will we testify for this $6.1mm witness prep biz? - Acquisitions Anonymous 225

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

In Episode 225, Heather (@EndresenHeather) and Michael (@girdley) explore an expert witness prep business. The seller is asking for $6.1 million for a Boston-based business with $4.1 million in revenue and $1.25 million in cash flow. They discuss the risks tied to the business's heavy reliance on the seller's connections and the unpredictable revenue patterns in the industry and debate whether the business can be scaled by expanding its reach beyond the seller's network and hiring sales representatives. You can find the listing here: https://www.bizquest.com/business-for-sale/expert-witness-prep-and-placement-for-law-firms/BW2117764/Thanks to this week's sponsors!Employer Flexible will help you take action to streamline your company’s HR processes. They are the proud provider of flexible and adaptable PEO services. If you’re a small business trying to grow, and you’re struggling with a lack of internal HR, or you’re just dissatisfied with your current HR setup, consider Employer Flexible as your next vendor for HR outsourcing services.Check them out at https://www.employerflexible.com/.------------------CloudBookkeeping offers adaptable solutions to businesses that want to focus on growth with a “client service first” approach. They offer a full suite of accounting services, including sophisticated reporting, QuickBooks software solutions, and full-service payroll options.Subscribe to weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking here Do you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel. Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show! Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations. For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

Welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous. I'm Heather Anderson, your co-host. Michael and I had a great discussion today about an expert witness placement business. Really, really interesting. And stay tuned to the end because we start talking about what you should pay for a business and how that plays into whether it can grow. So I think we had a pretty good discussion. It's a really interesting business.

Stay tuned. Today's sponsor is Employer Flexible. And what Employer Flexible does is really function as a fractional HR department for your company or business. I've used them numerous times and putting together my companies. I've used them when I've bought companies. I've used them when I started from scratch. And basically, when you're moving quickly or when you don't want to spend the time putting together your own HR department, benefits, all that kind of stuff, and you want to get the scale of being part of a larger group, you can reach out to employer flexible. And what employer flexible does

is give you that buying power as if you're part of a bigger group and all that kind of stuff. And for me, I love working with them for numerous reasons. One is I know the owners and a lot of the staff and they've always treated me super good. And then the second thing is I hate HR. Like I don't enjoy it at all. And this way I can know it gets done right. I get the benefits of having a big fully staffed HR department

and the flexibility of having a vendor like employer flexible being there as a partner throughout my journey and making sure that everybody I work with is happy, taking care of, and we can focus on what really matters in our business, which is take care of our customers. So you can find their contact details, locations of their various offices,

as well as more details on how they will help your business by going to employerflexible.com. And again, that's employerflexible.com. And thanks to them for sponsoring today's episode. Michael, how's it going? It's going well. You know what I like? I like every week it feels like your video and your audio and everything.

The whole like you're up in your game like every week. And as somebody who seems to do that, I don't know if you notice, but I got some new lights in my background. You do. It looks good. It looks really good. I actually got contacts. I got glasses.

Look at that. That's amazing. All right. Yeah. So the other guys ditched us today, but it turns out we could talk about this expert witness deal. Does that sound good? It sounds really good.

It looks like a good one. All right. Let me pull it up and let's talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. So first thing is like, oh my God, $6 million. for an expert witness business. Let's go. It's also, the other thing I like, it's off of BizQuest.

The thing I like BizQuest does is they have like these like little emojis. They put on all the deals. So this one has a hot listing with seller financing. And this is our bud, Courtney Sells, who we talked about in a few episodes ago, is having the most perfect name ever for business broker. Her last name is Sells S-E-L-L-S. That's impressive right there, just having. the name. It's a five multiple. It's a five multiple they're asking because they're saying

that, you know, 6.1 million asking price, gross revenue, 4 million 114, and a cash flow of 1 million 248. So it's about a five that they're asking, which is, yeah, yeah, maybe that's okay. We'll see. Let me read a little bit here. Expert witness prep and placement for law firms located in Boston, Massachusetts, which is impressive because Courtney operates out of Omaha. And if I have it right, she's operating out of Nebraska and has 82 active listings. And this one is in Boston. Like that's, that's, I'm very impressed with Courtney. I am very impressed with Courtney. If you know Courtney or Courtney

is listening to this, we would love to have Courtney on to give us her perspective, I think, as a business broker. I think it would be a hoot. Yeah. All right. So numbers wise, they're asking $6.1 million for the business. Gross revenue is $4.1 million. Cash flow is $1.25 million. And that is listed parentheses as sellers discretionary earnings. And so that means

there's some seller payment. They're paying themselves somewhere in there. So the seller's working in the business. EBA does not disclose, inventory not disclosed, FF&E not disclosed real estate not disclosed. Business description, this opportunity is a litigation consulting,

expert witness firm that provides business analysis and expert witness reports and testimony. They assist law firms and government agency clients that focuses on identifying and retaining qualified experts. They are engaged throughout the duration of the case to support these experts. The firm also has special expertise in using social media analysis to develop litigation ready evidence. The firm's client base are top recognizable corporations, news channels, and the Department of Justice that need assistance, finding expert witnesses, case analysis, witness reports, and trial strategy and preparation. With a table's A stable team of 12 made up of mostly attorneys, law professors, MBAs, and accountants.

The buyer does not need to be an attorney as the current owner is not. The owner has some roles in business development and staff oversight, though he has recently been offloading more of his client-facing roles in order to prepare for a smooth transition. The seller has offered a transition period ranging from one to two years. He is willing to do seller financing a role equity of 25% as a sign of good faith. All personnel work remotely, which drives their 44% profit margin, allows them to take on clients across the United States and throughout Canada. priced at $6.5, $6.1 million.

This business offers a strategic buyer, the opportunity to expand their practice, or allow for an individual leaveable expertise looking to start their own practice. This consulting firm has a stable team, client-based, a network that offer good growth opportunities moving forward. Some other stuff.

Expand, Boston, started in 2013, 12 employees, and that sort of thing. I'm just looking to see if there's anything else here. Oh, there's a summary. There's a summary. They gave us this well. oh, maybe I should have started with that. So they give us some historic numbers,

so I'll talk about those here and go through those, and then we should talk about the deal. 2022, 4.1 million in revenue, 2021, 4.7 million in revenue, 2023 million in revenue. So it went up by like 50%, and then came down by like 15%. Cash flow has been pretty consistent,

1.2 million, 980,000, 1.76 million, 1.25 million, with a 41% profit margin, and they have $658,000 in accounts receivable, so outstanding things they need to collect. So, okay. Well, me it. My first reaction of this is, like,

A, like this, you know, owning a business is a great path to living a pretty amazing life, if you want to, which, you know, it sounds like this person gets to. But also, like, I think there's a parallel thing, there, which is like, this is really hard. Like, just to feel like I'm, like, mostly decent at it, like, I've had to spend

25 years studying and reading books, like, on the weekends. Like, and I still screw stuff up on the regular. And, like, like, that's the, that's, that's, that's, whenever I see people talking about, like, oh, business ownership is the path to the American dream, then I'm like, well, you know, it's like really hard. And it's kind of risky, too.

So anyway, anyway, okay, what are your thoughts on this witness preparation, um, preparation business? I got a few thoughts. It feels a little bit like, a staffing, you know, kind of weird, like a staffing agency, like you've got to go out and find these witnesses that are just the right folks for different cases. He's not a lawyer. The seller he or she is not a lawyer, but it sounds like you really do need to know the law and the legal

system pretty well to do this. This is not for folks who don't know the industry. And there are class action cases. So I've looked at businesses that are kind of serving the class action industry, if you will. And they tend to be, those receivables are probably based on contingency payments. I don't know. Maybe they are. Maybe they're not. But that's a pretty hefty amount of receivables.

So I'd wonder, you know, what are the terms of collecting? Are they taking some of their payment on, you know, based on whether the cases are one or they don't get paid until the case is closed? That could be interesting. And I also think that these tend to be lumpy, you know, revenue types. situations where a big class action case is going, you know, for a few years and there's lots of work poured into it and then it's gone and you've got to go find another one because there's just only so many class action type cases that are going to go on. I don't think that they only do

class action. I think they said they do other things too. But I think there's a lot of hustling. Like you said, a lot of hard work probably goes into that $6 million in revenue or that $4 million in revenue because they've got to find the right people at the right time for these cases. Yeah. It would not surprise me when you dig into this. We went through the revenue, went from 3 million to 4.7 million to 4.1 million. It would not surprise me if when we dig into this, and I think you've seen this before, sometimes the sellers start to retire in place, if that makes sense. And especially if this person who is the owner working in the business has been the major rainmaker, that they kind of were like, well, you know, I'm going to like put it,

I'm going to put it into fourth gear as opposed to sixth gear. And that's what caused this revenue dip in 2022. Just theorizing kind of how I've seen other people who are like, you know what, I could really use a boat. When you get to that mentality, you know, a boat. It could be a boat. It could be. Yeah.

Yeah. That's funny. So just question for you. So revenue model, is this just straightforward that law firm X, who's representing a client, and let's say they're in a dispute around, I don't know, a fireworks stand. And they need to go, the law firm calls

and says, you know, hey, you're suing these fireworks guys and you want to, we go find us an expert witness to testify in this particular dispute. They call this company, the one for sale here, and they say,

go find us an expert, we'll retain you to do that, and we're going to pay you hourly, and then you'll bring us the expert and we're going to pay you for that expert to be provided? Or is it just like a search firm that basically then the expert is found and then that goes from there and they get paid some percentage of, you know, for finding that person? Do we have an idea of how that model goes down? And hopefully they're not like, hopefully they're not doing that because that sounds like

not very fun. No. Yeah. And it could be, you know, if it's more like staffing, the top line, they could be billing for what they actually pay the witness, you know, so they're only just keeping that piece at the end. I don't know what they're doing there. That's, it's really interesting. And again, I think that a lot of times the attorneys don't want to pay the bills until the case is settled. So that would be my question is how long until you, you know, between doing the work and getting paid, are you waiting, you know, what is the cash cycle could be really, really long here? Yeah. Well, they, they list. very clearly they have 650,000 in accounts receivable.

So I think that's a place to look at as you would look at this business. Yeah. So this, you know, this just feels like a small version of a lot of the expert networks. Like, you know, like GLG, TIGS, like all this stuff. Have you looked at any of these businesses? I have not. What do you have to say about those? They are super good businesses.

So basically, where. where it becomes interesting is if the knowledge in somebody's head is like hugely high leverage on the other end, like that creates an enormous opportunity for you to make money. Okay. So for example, let's say that you're a hedge fund and you're trading $500 million a day in a particular space like enterprise software. It is incredibly valuable for you to get inside information, not legally inside information, but stuff that's not public knowledge from somebody who really truly understands the space, i.e. an expert that your competitors don't have. Because suddenly you know something that they don't know around this stuff. So Bill's, Bill has done it,

and I've done it a few times too, where somebody pays you as an expert three or $5,000 an hour to like take a phone call and tell them what you know about the thing. And so you say, well, that's like a ridiculous amount of money to pay somebody $5,000 to understand what's going on in the fireworks business or the dog, you know, lotions and potions business, right? Or e-com. But if on the other end, somebody's trading $500 million a day in stock in that particular thing, it becomes incredibly valuable to them. And it creates a huge opportunity for the middlemen who connect you with those experts to make a ton of money. Okay. Yeah. This is similar then. Yeah, it absolutely is. Like, you have the ability to, like, if in a case, your expert witness is 10% better than the next best expert witness, you want that best guy. And if it's a 10 or 20 or let's say some of these litigious stuff, like half billion dollar lawsuits, right? Remember, like, the Google and like the Uber, like lawsuits, they were like billions of dollars in Apple and all this kind of stuff.

way, interestingly, like in the recession, those have really slowed down. I just thinking about it, I was like, when was the last time I heard about like a big corporate lawsuit? And they're like few and far between. They are. Anyway, so like, I think the same thing goes on here. Like, the law firms and therefore the clients, like they want to win, especially if this law firm is taking the case on, not these guys, but the law firm hiring you is taking the case on contingency. Like, they want you to go find the very best expert witness and whatever this particular, you know, asbestos or whatever it might be. And it's worth a lot of money to them, like creates a lot of opportunity for you to carve out value. So that's why I like this. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, that's very interesting.

One of the growth opportunities they mentioned in the teaser is opposition research on the opposing witnesses. So, you know, basically, you know, challenging their credibility, which I think is kind of the dark side of these kinds of situations, right? If you come forward and they recruit you as the expert, you may be sort of trashed by the other side. So I don't think it's easy to get people to do this, even though they might get paid really well. It's still a big ask for an expert to come forth for somebody else's lawsuit. Yeah. Well, there are people whose job is to be professional expert witnesses. It's a really fascinating thing. They travel around and they talk about, I mean, like if you're the stuff that's very commonly sued over, like medical malpractice and all that

kind of stuff. All those people with the personal injury attorneys, like, they definitely have like just slates of like experts who just drive around and talk about medical impact of being in a car wreck or being hit by a truck or whatever. Yep. All right. Taking a quick pause here. I have something to tell you.

This is Michael. I hate bookkeeping. I hate bookkeeping. I hate doing HR. I hate doing all that kind of stuff. But for bookkeeping, I have found a solution. It is my friend Charlie's business called cloudbookkeeping.com. So that's cloudbookkeeping.com.

They are your perfect partner if you want to get bookkeeping out of your hair and focus on making your company, your customers happier and more successful. So please give them a call, call Charlie, cloudbookkeeping.com, tell them we sent you. They're a great way. If you're a business buyer, if you're a business owner, you're tired of hassling with getting your bookkeeping done. He's got a whole fleet of people that are. well-trained and work for him.

He's located here in San Antonio, so I can tell you because of that, he's awesome. And they're a great partner for you to potentially call to help with all your bookkeeping needs so you can do the important stuff in your business rather than worry about getting your books right. So give Charlie a call, cloudbookkeeping.com, and now back to the episode. So lots of like about this business. Yeah, I'm sure they have their regular people and then they probably have to really dig for, you know, really nichey type experts, depending on the case. But like you said, there's only so many,

you know, class action cases, big class action cases going on at any given time. I looked at a business about a year or two ago that basically did the data rooms for these big class action cases. So anybody that's ever been done a data room for a deal, you know, it can kind of become its own monster. And that's just a deal. Can you imagine the data room for a class action lawsuit? they're huge and they're very complex and the data itself has to be handled very carefully so that the other side doesn't get to look at certain things. And it was very interesting. It was very fascinating business.

But that's where I learned that it was just so lumpy. If that's what you're specializing in, yeah, there's a lot of revenue. There's a lot of money to be made while the case is going. But when the case is done, you know, there may be a while before the next big one comes along. So it's just, it's probably quite a bit of a grind, you know, finding the business. And it sounds like the seller does the business development, you know, so they've got the contacts. This is all about having the contacts with the good class action attorneys, too. So there's a little bit of risk for a buyer to come in here and, you know, still maintain those

contacts, those relationships. Yeah, but it creates an interesting question to dig into. And I think that's where this is all headed with this business. It's like, oh, this is a great business. Like, this is cool. And then as you dig into it, I think there's a significant insight from the seller, and it shows up here in the teaser, like, this needs to get bought by an owner operator who's going to go in and run this thing. And because I think ultimately, my thesis is when you dig into it, what you're really, quote unquote, buying here is the relationships that the seller has built as a trusted provider with these law firms who can't choose, who are scared to choose a new provider because they just can't have any situation in which somebody shows up with

a bad expert. And, you know, I think that's where, that's ultimately what you're buying here and maybe why, yeah, okay, well, we looked at it and it's, in theory, you know, if you pay yourself a third of the profits, that's a 250,000 a year, it's a lot of money. the business is suddenly trading more at like six times once you go to true cash flow on this and why this is priced somewhat aggressively for what it is. I think it is priced aggressively because it is a relationship business. And the seller even says they'll give a two-year training period, which is sort of like another hint that you're going to need two years working side by side

with the seller to meet everybody and be accepted within the network. So this would be to me as a financing person, a seller note kind of a deal. You know, they really can't be cashed out too much here. And it's not a five multiple. I mean, like you said, five on SDE is way too high. You've got to take a salary out. I don't like SDE. It bothers me.

You know, the owner's got to have a salary. come on why are we adding it back like it's like it's part of the cash flow and why are you paying a multiple on your salary why would you do that would you buy a job for four times your salary when i sold my business i was like okay like let's s die the heck out of this thing oh see see how you are yeah i was like yeah well i mean that's front of the thing you do when you sell a business it's like uh like you know like it's called i i call it the ad back paloza where you like going in there, and you're talking to the broker, and you're like, yeah, we can add that back. They're like, that's the electricity bill. Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, that's an ad back. They don't need that.

I was Bitcoin mining for a day. Like, yeah, ad back, they don't need electricity. Like, big deal. That's one type of expense. They can get solar. Yeah, come on. They're going to get solar. Yeah. Yeah, don't talk to me about adbacks. I get some crazy adbacks and lots of interesting discussions around them. But STE, come on. Let's just not have SDE. Let's just have EBTA. Adjusted even though. Right now, we're alienating all of our broker advertisers. Sorry, everybody.

By the way, if anybody's interested in advertising on our show, we've had a flood of advertisers lately, so please join the flood. We're very excited to, I mean, I think the right advertiser for our show is if you're somebody that is selling a high dollar ticket thing to business buyers or business owners, like we're a great source for you. I mean, you look at like cloud bookkeeping, you know, who else has been really successful?

Employer Flexible is here as well. Rejig. Like, you look at them and they're all selling relatively high dollar, high value things to business owners or searchers. Like, that's who seems to get the most. We're not going to get Hershey's or Park Trump Campbell advertising with us.

But if you have a high dollar thing, we'd love to help you. So, okay, anyway, back to this deal. So, so this is just from an SBA banking loan standpoint, like a non-starter rate, in terms of coming up with $4.6 million for a business that looks like this, Heather? Or did I hear you differently? Well, here's the funny thing about that you might find an SBA lender that will miss the fact that there's a lot of risk here with the relationships and would still just lend on cash flow. So beware of that.

There are lenders that aren't going to kind of dive in as deep to the story. It probably could get financed SBA. should it, that's my, what I'm saying is probably it shouldn't. Or if it did, it would have to be a pretty low leverage SBA. You wouldn't be maxing out your leverage like, uh, like we do in so many other types of businesses because there's just a lot of risk. And there's a lot, I suspect a lot of lumpiness. So we don't want to put, you know, a 10 years worth of debt payments on here. Um, you know, I would want, I would ideally want a buyer to be able to get this with mostly seller note, um, or all seller notes. Sometimes I recommend to people, you could close a deal with equity and seller note

and the SBA allows you to refi the seller note after two years. So then after two years, you've gone through the transition. You know, we know where things have settled out and then it's a pretty easy refi and you could make that note somewhat forgivable so if things didn't work out, you know, it's right sized by the time that you do the refi. Probably the seller wouldn't go for that or maybe they would depending on, you know, what other bites they get from the market. But that would to me be like the ideal way to acquire something like this. I don't hate this business. I think I like this business.

I don't like the price so much, but hey, what else is new? Sorry. Yeah, it's a nice business. I mean, there's a lot of revenue. Do you think it's possible to have this business where the seller is not doing the sales, where the CEO owner is not doing most of the sales in rainmaking? Like, is it possible to hire sales reps that can actually close stuff? This is a genuine question.

Yeah, I think that the seller would have been wise to test that out a bit more before selling. I think it said somewhere in the teaser that, you know, they've been pulling back a little bit, but it would have been, the business would be much more valuable had they fully done that before coming to market. I don't know. And I think that's the question for any buyer here. it would have to be some really good salespeople who really, you know, maybe there are folks that went to law school didn't really want to be a lawyer. That could be a good salesperson for

this kind of business. Yeah, I think it's possible, but I think that it would have been much better had the seller already done that. I think the seller is definitely still the rainmaker here. Yeah. It's a great business. I'm really glad somebody sent this along. I mean, I think that you're right. If I was to try to put this together, I think it's going to have to be one where there's higher seller financing. And reality is this seller, like they just talk in the thing,

like they don't really need the money. Like they just want to move on to their next thing. I mean, they've been making, in theory, they've been making $1.2 million a year. It sounds like in their 60s, not working very hard for at least the past 10 years.

And then they have their whole career before that. They probably are not somebody who needs. ton of money. You know, that you see this already from there like, yeah, like, I'll throw it. I'll roll over some equity. I'll sell or finance it. Let's go. Like 25% in the listing is like a significant.

You see everything. And I also see what Courtney's trying to do with this, which is, you know, she's trying to support the, you know, the 6.1 million ask price with structure. So kudos, kudos to her. But yeah, I would agree with you. I think number one, I would try to really go into this and understand. And why is the business the size it is? And what is that?

What is that constraining factor? And can I break through that to start it growing again? And maybe our first guess is that the seller has never really created a sales and marketing machine. So I would dig into can I do that, right? To where I can have compensated sales reps and account managers going in and doing that kind of outreach at scale for me. And then the second thing is really kind of understanding how do I structure this deal. in a way that'll actually work because there's no assets to really borrow against. It's going to have to be a cash flow slash EBITS slash loan.

Could you borrow one and a half or two times on that? And then, yeah, anyway, those are my two big thoughts to go with in terms of this one. Any thoughts from you on how to make it work? Yeah, that's how I would make it work. I mean, like you said, they offered a 25% seller note. Maybe you can get a bigger one. And you keep your SBA leverage pretty low. and you really dig in on the cash cycle and the lumpiness so you know how you might have to

preserve cash within the business between cases. And then I think there's a nice business here, especially if you have any knowledge of the legal system. Yeah. Well, and kudos, like, talk nicely about this one. A, this looks like a high quality business to be in. You know, it's very much an agency kind of business, I would describe it as, but like clearly better than most agencies. You know, we talk about agency businesses are easy to get to a million in revenue and really tough to get past two and a half or three million in revenue. And also really tough to get yourself out of the agency. But this is one where it's like clearly, it's a one person show, just like you see with most agencies, it's doing bespoke services in a specific niche over and over

again, and it's producing a lot of cash in a very capex light way. But with the problem with all agencies is what do you do with it when you don't want it anymore? Because you have to talk somebody else into buying a job. Yeah, that's the challenge with this one. But, you know, a testament, when people ask me, like, what should I do as a small business? Like, if I want to create something, it's like you could start an agency with basically negligible cash, cash flow from day one. And the tradeoff is, you're just never going to scale it very big. That's just the way it works. Yeah. But it's not a bad tradeoff. I like this one. I think somebody should go after it. Is this a candidate for the Acquisitions Anonymous Fund?

Oh, no, I don't think so. I don't think I... Yeah, I like worm farms better. I just, I think this one, this one's kind of risky for, this is very, I don't know, just a very special person that fits perfectly is the right buyer here, in my opinion. Yeah, if I wanted to spend my day,

because your baseline cases, you're going to have to live the same life, this other guy lived, and you're going to have to spend the next six to seven years paying off these loans. Because realistically, to own this business that, let's say you pay the purchase price, $6.1 million, and you net, you don't grow it, and you work in the business, so you pay yourself $200,000 a year to work in the business as CEO. And that means the business is going to throw off a million dollars before taxes on top of that. So you've got to chop 40% off there. So six, 60% about, that means it's going to take you about 10 years, assuming, because you're going

to free cash full about 600 years, it's going to take you about 10 years to pay off this business. That is the math I think everybody should do before they buy a business is do the, how long will it take before I own this business math? And sometimes when you say it's going to take me 10 years, yeah, it becomes less appealing. Yeah, to me, most of the time of anything above a four multiple in this space, even at a four, it's got to be a growth story. Or like you said, the math just works out that you're paying back the purchase price for just too long. Yeah, they don't. And I like reading between the lines and the teasers and to kind of see the level of work they put into the growth story. And it feels like an afterthought here, which is I don't think anybody doesn't sound like

they really believe it. And it's also the old question of, oh, congratulations on your growth story. why haven't you done that yet? Yeah. It's like, they tell you you can grow this business, just do some Facebook ads. You're like, you know,

that just takes a credit card. Like, why is that so hard? Right. And there's probably not enough hours in the day for them to add all these other services they mentioned here. So yeah,

this is not a growth play. This is a, you know, buy it at a reasonable multiple and enjoy the cash flow. But yeah, you're paying it off for a long time, for sure.

Yeah. I think, well, you know, we have to see where this one sells. Sounds like the seller is not in much of a hurry to sell

based on the way they're talking about sticking around. And it may be one of those like hang around the hoop and see if the price comes down. But I think this is a much more compelling deal at two and a half to three times, STE, not five. That's my opinion. And I'm sticking to it. I'm with you. Maybe this is why I don't buy many things. Right.

Bargain shoppers over here. Yeah. We definitely are. All right. Cool. Anything else on your mind? Wait, were you hosting today? So that means you need to do the thank you and ask of everybody.

Okay, yes. So wait a minute. I always forget what I'm doing here. This is the point where you just say thank you for being here. Oh, thanks for watching everybody. And then we record the intro after. Okay. Thank you everyone for watching this episode.

We hope you like it. Great work. Okay. Well, yeah, and I feel so bad because we gave you, for the listeners listening, we gave Heather absolutely no training whatsoever. We just said to show up. I was scared. Show up with that microphone.

I mean, goodness. And we don't prepare. I mean, we really don't prepare. These are cold readings that we're doing here, so that's hard too. It's super fun. It's super fun. But by the way, hopefully this makes you feel awesome. We did my offsite for my emerging media business that I'm doing out of all my messaging and stuff.

And like we talked about you from. A, Robin, who's my chief of staff, was like so stoked that you're here and like, Heather's killing it. So like everybody was like super complimentary. And so I think you got a lot to feel good about. And I'm watching your trajectory of getting better every single episode. And that growth path is so inspiring because I know you're going to end up like much better and much more comfortable than all of us. Oh, gosh. It took us 250 episodes to be this terrible.

and you're doing really great. You're like a number of things. You guys are good. I mean, it makes it much easier because you guys have your flow and that definitely is fun. But you know what? For me, Michael, this has been a growth thing. Like at this stage of my career to do something so outside the box that is kind of scary, it was actually, it's really fun because it's something I never imagined doing.

And it has really definitely been just growth for me. It's a lot of learning. So I've loved it. A million percent. Well, we're so glad. your hair. Thank you. Super cool. Okay, well, we'll, I'll click stop here and we'll see you guys next week.