Acquisitions Anonymous - #1 for business buying, selling and operating - Would You Buy This 6.9M Revenue Sign Manufacturer?

Episode Date: April 10, 2026

In this episode the hosts evaluate a Miami-based architectural sign manufacturer generating roughly $1.9M in seller earnings, debating whether its attractive 3.3x multiple hides customer concentration risk and heavy dependence on the retiring owners’ relationships.Business Listing – https://www.bizquest.com/business-for-sale/architectural-sign-manufacturer/BW1920184/Welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous – the #1 podcast for small business M&A. Every week, we break down businesses for sale and talk about buying, operating, and growing them.Looking to build a professional website in minutes? Try Wix: https://wix.pxf.io/c/6898629/3115214/25616?trafcat=templateHubSpot is the backbone for how businesses scale without chaos. Try them out here: https://go.try-hubspot.com/OeG9VrLooking to build a professional website in minutes? Try Wix: https://wix.pxf.io/c/6898629/3115214/25616?trafcat=templateHubSpot is the backbone for how businesses scale without chaos. Try them out here: https://go.try-hubspot.com/OeG9Vr💰 Sponsored by:HighLevelHighLevel is an all-in-one CRM platform that helps small businesses manage emails, SMS campaigns, funnels, and customer relationships in one place. It’s designed to simplify operations and automate follow-ups so owners can focus on growth instead of juggling multiple tools. Automate, manage, and grow your business at https://www.gohighlevel.comCapital PadCapital Pad is a marketplace that connects acquisition entrepreneurs with investors ready to fund deals. They standardize governance, terms, and distributions—making it much easier to raise capital or invest in small business acquisitions with confidence. Discover exclusive opportunities at https://capitalpad.comThis episode features a searcher bringing a real deal he’s considering: a Miami-based architectural sign manufacturing company with approximately $6.9M in revenue and $1.9M in seller’s discretionary earnings, listed for $6.3M (about 3.3x SDE). The business specializes in high-end signage for large commercial clients—including cruise lines, hotels, and hospitals—and operates from a 17,000-square-foot facility with separate real estate valued at roughly $4.7M.Key Highlights:- $6.9M revenue, $1.9M SDE, asking $6.3M (~3.3x multiple)- High-end architectural sign manufacturer serving cruise lines and hospitals- Real estate valued at $4.7M sold separately with seller financing- Major diligence risks: customer concentration, project-based revenue, owner dependency- Only one month transition offered—significant operational riskSubscribe to  weekly our Newsletter and get curated deals in your inboxAdvertise with us by clicking hereDo you love Acquanon and want to see our smiling faces? Subscribe to our Youtube channel.Do you enjoy our content? Rate our show!Follow us on Twitter @acquanon Learnings about small business acquisitions and operations.For inquiries or suggestions, email us at [e-mail]

Welcome to Acquisitions Anonymous. Internet's number one podcast about buying and selling and investing in small businesses. I am one of your co-host, Michael Gurdley. Today, Heather and I welcome to guest, Brian, who will introduce here in a bit. And he did something special. He brought us a deal that he's actually looking at. Hasn't signed the NDA yet, but it was fascinating to dig into a deal with somebody who's actively looking at that one. And Brian's a cool guy, and I think you'll enjoy it.

And then stick around to the end, and you'll find out what we thought about it. Here's the episode. Cool set acquisitions and honors. Hello, another episode of Acquisition is anonymous. We don't have 100% beers anymore. And thumbs downing on just the plus inventory line. One of the biggest risks in entrepreneurship through acquisition is buying a business with fragile systems. Unclear demand are a single owner who holds all the knowledge.

Franchising approaches that problem differently. You are buying into an established brand with documented systems, unit level data, and repeatable operating playbooks. The hard part is knowing which franchises are actually worth evaluating. That's why Alex Moresniak, former CEO of Two-U Laundry, built for Franzy. Franzy is a free platform that helps acquisition-minded entrepreneurs explore franchise ownership without broker bias. You answer a few questions and Franzy shows you franchise opportunities that align with your capital, lifestyle, and long-term goals. You also get free coaching from people who have actually built and scaled franchise businesses. If you are exploring ETA and

want to understand whether franchising fits your acquisition strategy, visit franzi.com. That's F-R-A-N-Z-Y.com. And thanks to them for sponsoring today's episode. All right, the good news is our pre-show covered all the important stuff, which is, First of all, Heather's hair looks awesome today. So we covered that. So Heather, congratulations on being you. Thank you. Thank you.

Second of all, Heather, I surprised you by inviting a guest today who is brand new. This is the first time I've talked to him, but he and I emailed back and forth about some deals he's working on. I was like, Brian, you should come on the podcast. It'll be chaos and fun. So this is Brian. Nice to meet you, Brian. Nice to meet you as well. I'm happy for the meeting invite calling out the full name of the show because I wasn't sure which AA meeting I had scheduled today.

So I appreciate whoever was in charge of doing that. Give it a few more minutes, Brett. This is the one that seems like Q and on when you go to the website. Okay. You had no idea what to expect. Well, Brian's awesome because we had some good chats, but then he also brought a deal. So Brian, you want to take a couple of minutes and just introduce yourself. And I know you're working on another deal, but we're not going to talk about that one today because you're under NDA on that one.

We're going to talk about one that you're not working on. But yeah, introduce yourself and then we'll jump into the deal you brought. All right. Great. So Brian Cabisa, I am a searcher back by kind of a family office. So single investor, been searching for a little bit over 18 months. Backgrounds military and distribution and project management. So I've been really interested in companies like this.

So interested to get into the weeds with it. Yeah. So how did you decide, like what was your background before? So you did military? Like how did you end up? and getting into the current kind of situation. Yes, I mean, I think it really just started with the military gave me this sense of like having a mission. And so I was like, I want this for the rest of my life.

And then I went to undergrad after the military, started working the corporate world. I was like, wow, that mission stuff's kind of gone. So I was like to do something else. And I happened to intern kind of with a searcher. We went on and bought a great business. I succeeded with that. So I've been on the path ever since, I think about eight or nine years. actually, I think I was listening to this podcast five years ago, so it's nice to be on the other side.

Amazing. So how did you get hooked up with your backer, the investor who's working with you, and why just work with one investor as opposed to multiple? Yeah, so I looked at all the different options. I definitely wanted to have investors with me, given that my background isn't really strong finance. I'm not really a deal guy, a more just kind of an operator. and so I wanted to partner with a team of folks who knew that side of M&A. I ended up liking the idea of having one sponsor because I think so much of this is being able to have communication constantly about what you're working on, deals and things of that nature.

And when you're backing 30 people, it's kind of hard to have the full attention of your, every single searcher and be able to give them the support they need as soon as they need it. where I'm at now with my sponsor, I've actually co-located with them. So I'm in their office right now. And so I can just walk into somebody's office and say, hey, I like this deal. Want to talk about it? And so I really like that. That's awesome.

Heather, do you have any questions? Otherwise, I have one more for Brian. Then we should talk about the deal. No, I mean, I do see a lot of searchers come through a similar path to Brian. So it makes a lot of sense to me. You know, managing small teams and leadership position, if you come out of the military, a lot of times, it's just is a great fit. Yeah. And then so target size and then structure, how are you guys thinking about stuff? Like, are you going to use debt? Like how big of businesses are you going after? What are your criteria? So really I'm looking at stuff that goes all the way down to $1.5 million and true adjusted EBDA up to about three and a half or $4 million adjusted EBIT. And usually we do it kind of like a third of it will be a third to 40 percent could be equity. And then we use kind of commercial debt and seller note to cover the rest. So we typically do.

don't look at SBA size deals. So that's another slight benefit. Don't have to do the PG. I would if I do it too, but I don't have to. Yeah, and is the financial sponsor giving the bank assurances around stuff? Or how is that, like, are you having to personally guarantee stuff? Is the sponsor doing it? So neither are the sponsor have to personally guarantee.

It's just based on the cash flow of the business. And since we usually would try to come to them with a larger business, the banks seem to be a little bit more comfortable with that, especially in the times where we get to a $3.9, dollar EBITDA business. Everybody seems to be a lot more excited about that. Exactly. I was going to say there's a big demarcation in finance, like personal guarantees and SBA guarantees are needed pretty much under two million EBITDA and sometimes even under three million EBITDA. The banks don't want to lend conventionally without those, without those

extra guarantees, personal or SBA until the companies are quite a bit larger. And then like you said, how much equity are you putting in a more like 40% or, you know, a huge, much large. or percentage than 10%, which is what you see on SBA. So it's just like a little bit different playing field on the conventional side. Super cool. All right. And so just so I understand, are you in terms of kind of, you said you, I said you were a researcher, are you looking for something that you're going to operate or are you looking, are you doing multiple deals? Are you still looking for your first deal? Just one deal. One deal. One deal is enough for me. Gotcha. I don't need the badge of six or seven. Gotcha. Okay. Well, let me read, let me present this deal that you brought. So,

Heather, by the way, guest of the day award for Brian, like bringing a deal, being entertaining, living an interesting path. So so far, having done no pre-screen or met before this podcast,

we're off to a good start. So good job, Brian. I am to please. So this one's on BizQuest. So you haven't signed an NDA on this one. I know. Got it. Okay.

So it's a Miami. And by the way, where's your sponsor? Where are you located today? I'm in New Orleans, actually. Oh, nice. That is a fascinating place.

Okay. I will leave it there. Asking price is 6.3 million. Gross revenue is 6.9 million. They have $50,000 in inventory. FF&E is 700,000 plus, and there's $4.7 million in real estate that is not included in the asking price.

And Heather, this is one of those situations where it looks like the owner may have created more value for themselves by owning their headquarters than by the business themselves. Yep, exactly. So this is an experienced experience excellence in arch okay this is not what I'm looking for in terms of how to word a alliteration yeah experience excellence in architectural sign design manufacturing and installation tailored for the commercial market with a remarkable track record of over 28 years an extensive

portfolio of unique projects they are known for collaborating with renowned designers and architects their skilled team employees a wide array of fabrication technologies and cutting edge equipment to craft tie-in signs using an impressive range of materials, including glass, acrylic, resin wood, hardwood, metals, laminates, stone and marble, plastic polymer, and digital printing. Recently, they have expanded operations by relocating to a spacious 17,000 square foot building from the previous 10,000 square foot facility. Revenue is steadily rebounding and has passed pre-pandemic levels, clientele or industry leaders such as all cruise lines, Rich Carlton, Baskin Palmer, and Mercy Hospital. Notably, their success has been achieved without sales,

personnel or advertising driven solely by word of mouth referrals and repeat customers. The sellers are dedicated to ensuring a seamless transition and are willing to provide ongoing support. Prospective buyers are required to submit a personal financial statement, a bio and proof of financial qualification. The real estate is available for $4.75 million. The sellers were financed. The real estate over 25 years, Amort with Balloon in three years.

They've been around for 29 years, 27 employees. There is no other local competition. does the high-end work they produce. And since the cruise industry is going back full steam, business has increased and expected to grow. This year, 2025 sales are tracking six to seven million in revenue. They own the revenue or own the real estate. I think that's it. And the owner's retiring. And we'll give you one month of transition, Brian. Just enough time to show you where the bathroom is. And it's presented by John Preston of Wellstone Group. So Heather, how would you describe what this business does in a concise way. I mean, it's a building product that's obviously going into

large projects, cruise ships, hospitals, whatnot, hotels. But I haven't quite figure out exactly what it is because they're designing and manufacturing something. Is it countertops? Maybe I missed that part. So I'm wondering if, you know, like the side of Mercy Hospital, the beautiful little sign that goes on there, if they're creating those kinds of things and putting them on there. What was the headline? Can you scroll back up. Architectural sign. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. So it's very, very nice signs. Big signs.

Sorry. I got into the description and I forgot the headline sign manufacturer. Okay. I mean, I've worked with some sign manufacturing companies that do very nice work. This is a bigger company than what you typically see in this space. So they've, you know, they're definitely

they must be doing something unique with their signs if this is all word of mouth. I think that's pretty interesting. Someone sees their work somewhere and goes, I want my sign to look like that, and this is how they get their business. So I feel like they're doing something really kind of special and unique in their design. Yeah. This doesn't feel like, I mean, there's, if you go bid out kind of classic channel letters or, you know, a PVC sign or die bond or any of that kind of stuff these days, there are, you know, in any given city, there's five to 15 to 25 of

these guys doing exactly the same stuff. And I think a lot of them are actually getting the materials all produced in the same factories. I learned once that if you bought like big banners, like 50 foot by 100 foot banners, they were all getting produced like in Greenville, Texas. Like there's just one factory and everybody was buying from that one. But it sounds like these guys are not kind of the standard middle of the road signage like that, you know, the more generic stuff that you see on every single building.

It sounds like these are really specialty high end. And maybe that's why it says architectural, like specialty. like specialty signage, like the beautiful sign when you walk into the Carnival Cruise line, these guys make that out of acrylic or whatever. Is that your reading kind of, Brian? Yeah, I mean, I think they talk about somewhere in there, like, kind of they, they use like specialists for their, for their material and their design. And I guess if we just assume maybe they're doing 20% margins because of how big their customers are, there may be at like 1.4 in Ibita. That's pretty good for a side manufacturer.

Yeah, it is. They must be doing something, you know, specialized. Yeah, did you look, so it says I could sign in to view the cash flow. Did you look? Did you sign in? I haven't signed in. I did not. I did not. Yeah, I don't know. If anybody was to sign into BizQuest and see how much that's the one thing missing from this listing. Like, are you making any money? That's my first question. You guessed a 20% margin and that's how you came up with 1.4, Brian? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 20% margin would be good for something like this. Could be higher because, you know, they, it could. It could. be like monument style signs, you know? So it could be really high-end, something very unique. So far, I like it just based on the fact that they don't even have a sales team. You know, that's a huge growth lever potentially. They may not have a big Tam or, you know, total market size, right? that the signs are for big marquee, you know, buildings or projects, and maybe there's just only so many new ones going in every year. So that could be a limiter, but I like the fact that they don't, they get all this business without even having a sales force. It's good and bad. It's kind of,

it's good. Like, I would love to run a business where I don't have to have sales or marketing, but as a buyer stepping into the business, it's like, okay, I can turn that on, but they've ran this business for 30 years and they didn't do it. So it's like, what's, what's, What would be the challenge to being able to proactively go out and reach out to these companies, facility owners, and, you know, get that dial. I don't know if they tried and didn't work. People were getting overpaid or what. So I'll give you the counter to this.

I think when they say we don't have a sales force and we don't have any sort of marketing and that kind of stuff, that is code for the owner and his wife or her wife, her husband. the couple that runs this business do everything. They're going to every trade show. They know everybody. I would be willing to bet the National Association of specialty sign makers. These people have been on the board of it at least two or three times. Like, I would be willing to bet that they are the entire Salesforce,

and the broker is spinning that in a way that is consumable for us investor types. But they'll train me for a month. They'll show you where the bathroom made. This is the bathroom. this the coffee maker, see you later. I think it's funny when they advertise something that bad. That's terrible. One month and you're going to advertise it.

Don't even say a time limit then. Just don't say it. All right. So I signed up for BizQuest while I was making that hot take, by the way. That shows you how good of a multitasker. Heather, I don't know if you know this, but I look like a Gen X, but I'm truly Gen Alpha. I can do everything all I want.

So it turns out that the cash flow is. $1.9 million in seller's discretionary earnings on a $6.3 million asking price. Good guess, Brian. Yeah, close. Because I would assume it's not, there's no salary in there for the, for the, for the husband and wife or wife. Well, that's SD. I'm assuming there is. I always assume the 1.9 turns into like 1.6. Yeah. Yeah. So what does that make this multiple then? 635 divided by 1. What do we say, 190? So 3.3 times? I did this.

Yeah. Okay. That seems really good. Maybe I shouldn't have gone on live TV. How long is this listing? Yeah, how long has this listing been up? That's my question. It's pretty recent.

Well, 3,700 people have seen it. Well, one of the things we've seen is sometimes when a listing stays up for a very long time, but looks too good to be true. That is a sign. It is definitely too good to be true when you go click on it. Could be a large project. The EBITDA that we're looking at could be the peak year, one or two really big projects that are not repeatable. Could be something like that.

And this is, I mean, this has got to be project work, right? There's not like you're replacing these kinds of signs very often. Maybe some of it is replacement, but most of the time I think it's project work. it's not repeat customers. So that's not such a great quality, and that's what makes sign manufacturing companies skew towards lower multiples in general. And the problem with this one could be also

that there could be some concentrations or some large projects that just made one year look especially good. Yeah, what if the customers are just what they mentioned? There's just like one cruise line, Ritzkerrowski. That's a realist. Yeah. I mean, these are the guys you call when you need the $200,000 sign. I mean, that's the crazy thing about this. If those are $200,000 or $250,000 projects, that could be like 20 signs in a year. With 29, and they said they have 29 full-time employees, 27 full-time employees. That's a big, you know, that's a big nut to overcome each year in terms of the expenses that you're going to have.

And the transition risks, because you don't have a sales force and because probably the, The current owners are well known in the industry is a little scarier in that regard as well. Are you not going to get those 20 projects next year because you're new, you know, and they don't know you? That's a huge risk. So, Brian, if you buy this, are you moving to Miami? Are you taking your talents to South Beach? Is that what you're doing? I will.

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What do you guys think about the real estate on this? They says they're going to sell their finance all of the real estate. Is that normal? It's not, I don't see it very often, but I actually have a deal that they're doing exactly that right now. I think probably when they finance it themselves, it's for tax purposes. They don't want all the gain at once, and so they can spread it out that way. Maybe.

You know, I'm not a tax accountant, so maybe that's not quite the advantage that I think it is. But you don't see it that often. Maybe they really want to sell both. They don't want to sell just the enterprise and have you maybe buy the real estate later. So they're offering financing. So you'll buy it all as a package now. Not to be the suspicious type, but it's also sometimes a sign that they've priced the real estate so high that there's no way it'll appraise for that.

And they're willing to, they're willing to sell it to you for that. And in exchange, they will finance it for you. But it's not like they're letting you overpay for it and kind of live with that debt because the balloon is in three years. I didn't even see that part. I was like, oh, they're going to finance it over 25 years? I love these guys. Yeah, so, yeah, 25-year Airborne.

Okay, thanks a lot. The three-year balloon is kind of a problem. Which to me, like, a way to very intelligently in like these guys' situation, transfer wealth to future generations as you have your operating business, it buys land. The operating business pays real estate, you know, pays rent to the land company that owns the land. and then when it's time to exit, you just sell the operating company with a lease to your existing land. You get to spend all the money that you just got when you retired from selling that business. Congratulations.

But you still have something left over that's a recurring revenue asset for your kids with a lot of tax advantages in the form of a headquarters. And basically, you just keep that and it's, you know, it's checks for the family forever. But these guys seem to not be that excited about doing that. So maybe they want to move to the villages and party it up or whatever. But it's interesting that they said they recently, they went from 10,000 square feet to almost 17,000 square feet right before selling. Like, why would they do that? Yeah.

So they could sell the real estate. Sometimes we do see in the SBA world, we do a lot of real estate lending to or occupied commercial real estate lending. And you will find if a real estate market is particularly tight, you will find these types of companies buying something too large and having a subtenant, you know, having a tenant in there because that's all they could find. You know, so they're kind of buying something for rent control, but they can't find just the perfect size, so they end up buying something larger.

That happens a lot. I mean, you have to like being in Miami and located near the cruise lines. Like, they're not going to be buying these signs from Indiana. They're going to be buying them from, you know, the world headquarters of cruise lines, which is Fort Lauderdale, Miami. Have you guys ever taken a cruise out of Miami or Fort Lauderdale? I've never been on cruise.

first of all okay here's here's my rant about cruises most people think cruises are horrible they're trashy and all this kind of stuff it is it you should at least try it once it is remarkably fun people watching just being it's like being at this like weird traveling summer camp you see all kinds of crazy stuff people doing and these people like rolling up to the buffets being very confused and trying to figure out why the entire ships are staffed by filipinos like just the whole aspect of it of people watching just totally makes it worth it. And it's actually fun because everything's just like done. So anyway, people tell me they hate cruise.

I'm like, just go on one. Just go on one. Just try it. You'll like it. So anyway, that's my ranch about cruises. But I think this highlights something worth talking about. It says revenue is steadily rebounding in his past pre-pandemic levels. To me, that screams these guys have massive customer concentration with the cruise lines.

Yeah. And it rebounded. So everything shut down during COVID and for a while afterwards, especially with cruises. And so that does lead me back to thinking that this is a peak year that they're trying to sell on. Maybe they were ready to retire. This happened a lot. There were a lot of people were ready to retire about it and done anything about it. And then COVID hit.

And then they got stuck with the business for five more years because they had to get through COVID and out to the other side. And there's a lot of businesses on the market today that I kind of feel fit that profile. They finally climbed all the way back out. but this could just be serving some pent-up demand and not something that's normalized yet, you know, just because of this particular niche that they serve and the fact that it's big projects. Do you think someone could get an SBA loan on this if they did like Perry Pesu or do you think concentration and project base would just kill it? Well, here's something interesting.

Yes, you could get a Perry Pesu. I mean, let's just, let's, I'm going to say the EBITDA, the adjusted EBITDA, we'll call it 1.6 because I'm going to lop off 300,000. of that 1.9 for salaries. So we'll say 1.6 times 3.75. You can afford to borrow on a DSCR basis about $6 million. So yes, you could do a $5 million SBA plus a $1 million peri-pousou. To get a pari-pissue, though, you need to have a little bit better than average application. So that means really good resume fit, a decent personal financial statement with some liquidity. So at least needs to look a little bit better than average. But yes, you could. you could also, this is what's interesting.

A lot of people don't realize this. They think, okay, they're maxed out on SBA. They've used the $5 million. You could still buy the real estate with an SBA loan. I know they're offering seller financing here, but there is a program called the 504 program for owner-occupied real estate, and it has a feature called the Green program. And if you make this project green, which is energy efficiency,

basically adding solar panels or some other LED lighting, whatever it may be, you certify that it's going to improve the energy efficiency of the building, but I think it's 10%. Then you can get another $5 million for the real estate. So you could actually do both in this case if you did a 504 green. So yeah, but I think it's one of those where it depends on how the other prior years looked. If this is just a one good year and the last two wouldn't have good DSCR, then you probably wouldn't be able to get Perry Pursue. The banks, you know, take the underwriting of those Perry Pursue deals a lot more rigorously, and they want better cash flow coverage in multiple years for those. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why if you're going to get an SBA loan, you are insane if you don't call Heather.

So just so you know. And I have a whole team. It's not just me doing your loan, but I will be on top of it for you. And, yeah, please call me. So, Brian, what are the first, like, two questions you ask after you sign the NDA and take a look at this deal? What do you want to learn first? So I don't think I could do this unless there was some sort of maintenance involved. And I know, like, you know, probably a brand new sign outside of a hospital isn't getting

that much damage. But on the crew side, it's water damage at least. Like, there was some, some form of repeat business that I could count on, or at least the knowledge that maybe there's you know, like some of these have multiple locations and there's maybe a single person in charge that could, you know, say like, okay, we need this boat that's on this dock, that's on this other dock. I don't think I could do it if it's just, they're doing one-time projects down there in Miami. It just, that's just because of investor mandate and how you guys are thinking about the business or why that restriction for you? Yeah. I mean, I think we really care about revenue quality. Like, it kind of depends on how strong the other factors of the business is. But like, we don't need. contractually recurring revenue, but like at least 50% reoccurring to know that we did something this year. We'll probably do something next year. It doesn't have to be the exact same amount. But if it's all just one time, the husband and wife on this thing are calling up their buddies

and saying, you anything this week? And they're saying, yes, actually, we do. I don't think, I don't know of me making that call after my one month of training is going to result in the same revenue in EBITDA. Hey, sir, call people. Hey, I found the coffee machine here at our company. Would you like a sign? One month transition is the biggest screamer of we've been doing this for a long time and we're really tired. Get us out of here. Is this a broker? Is this a broker listing?

Yeah. I think there's one down there. Okay, broker. Please don't advertise that or talk to your clients and tell them it's going to take more than a month. You know what the scary part is? What do you think they want for exclusivity on this? If they want one month for training, is it two weeks? Good point, Brian.

How many deals have I seen? where people bring them in and say, okay, the broker says I have to close in 45 days. And I say, tell me how many deals a broker has closed in 45 days previously. You know, this is, this is silly. Yeah. Super fun. All right. This is a good one, Brian.

So where do you guys stand on this one? Heather, are you anti-pro? What do you think of? I am pro getting this, you know, going further and getting to know more and, you know, finding out whether we have customer concentrations or whether, you know, at least one other prior year was as good as this one. If not, you know, I think it's a good business at a lower price or with a maybe a really large seller note that is forgivable kind of tied to revenue. So you have some kind of lever there that can protect you a little bit. But I'm pro it for the right

person, I think, and at the right price. Yeah, I'd keep moving with this one. Yeah. Brian, what do you think? I think definitely the customer concentration thing would be big. Just understanding that go to market, like if it even is the founders, like what are they actually doing to get a job done? Are they filling out request forms, quotes, all of those things, try to understand where the actual like intellect is on the team below the sellers to see if this is something, you know, if I go to a lower multiple where there's less risk or higher seller note, if there's actually a team here, I think those would be the things. If not, I think I'd be out on this one. I will go the other way.

I think I'm kind of with Heather. Perpetual optimist, I feel like there's an 80% chance you dig into this deal or I dig into this deal. And you find something that's a deal killer. Like you talked about, like customer concentration, huge, you know, dependent upon the sellers or something like that. But I think there's an outside chance you dig into this and the broker's just done a poor job of positioning it. And there's something truly unique about the niche these guys have. like if you had all the cruise lines locked up and you are the person to call them for some particular reason, that would be a great business. And maybe that's there. Maybe that's not there. And these guys are trying to hide and obfuscate who they are. I think it's at least worth getting the SIM. And then I think there's an 80% chance I move out of the next deal. That's what I think about this one. So very cool. This is a good one, man. Good job, Brian.

So if one of the listeners wants to go buy this company, I'll be your operator for you. You'll have my information in the show. Great. Brian is full service here. amazing super cool all right well thanks everybody for being here for this episode we had a ton of fun

Brian great job you're natural have you considered starting your own podcast that's actually in the works

oh amazing what's it going to be about it's going to be about actually like owner to owner conversations specifically around the distribution

manufacturing so I'm already pre-recording probably launching this in about April so everybody even

on the lookout so how can people find you, follow along with your journey and stuff? So Brian Cabisa is not a very common name, believe it or not. So if you type that into LinkedIn, I'll be one of the first five results. I'll look kind of like this for those of you're watching on YouTube. And then my website is Tenet, P-E-N-T-L-L-C.com. Happy to talk with anyone who's interested in buying something, or running a company already in the industry. I just like to connect and learn a little bit more than I knew yesterday. So always open that.

All right. Thanks for being here. Everybody will catch you next time. Appreciate it.