Adeptus Ridiculous - CIAPHAS CAIN: FOR THE EMPEROR | Warhammer 40k Book Review and Discussion

Episode Date: December 19, 2021

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Welcome everyone to another episode of the Adeptus Ridiculous podcast. Today is a book club episode. But before we get into that, if you enjoy today's episode, heading over to patreon.com slash Adeptus Ridiculous, where you can get a lot of fun, cool things to support the channel. Things like access to our Discord, some real nice HD posters. This is new Christmas one. Shai has a box. There's an orc lady coming out of it, and she's got a list of it.

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It's great merch. Nice. Nice. Nice. This is going. Great. I would inform the, listen, dude, we're just role-playing as Kylechish Kane right now, you know? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Granted, I believe his competence outweighs ours in a multitude of ways.

Infinitely outweighs ours. This is true. Yes, infinitely. Is it too late to get Christmas stuff? Because it's like, we're coming up on it being less than a week away. So it might be too late to get Christmas shit now, right? I mean, if you, like, it might arrive. Like, if you live in California, like, it ships in two days. Because I live in California. But in reality, really at this current moment, if you want to get it, you might as well get it to roll the dice. But if you need it before Christmas, then I think you may just make it a New Year's gift.

Yeah, a belated Christmas present, early New Year's present. Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool, cool. But, uh, but anyway, it's time. Book Club episode. It is time for the illustrious, well-known commissar Caiaphas-Cain of known fame. Hero of the Imperium. Yep, yep.

Good old Kai-Kai-Ka-Ka-Ki-Ki-Fus-Kin. It's like one of the first memes I learned. It's, oh, it's Kai-Ka-Ki-Evus-Kin, Hero of the Imperium. I still don't know where it's from. Still haven't seen the episode. But the book was pretty all right. I, you know, when I started this book, for the first half, half, I was like, I do not see the appeal. Agreed. The first half of this book, the only character

I cared about was Cain. And while I don't dislike the Valhallaan generals and colonels and stuff, I was just like, these are all blank slates. I really don't care. And then basically the moment Amberly Vale showed that she was an inquisitor, that's when the book took off. Significantly. better. That's when the intrigue starts to like really go into overdrive. Because yeah, before that it's just like, yeah. Because when I went into this, everybody memes on Kaif is so hard. I genuinely thought he was going to be a bumbling buffoon that was like, oh my, oh my God, I tripped on a rake.

Oh, look, the rake just brained a Zeno scumback. I'm a hero. And I thought it was going to be like kind of slapsticky, like, oh my God, look at this fucking idiot and everybody didn't actually respect him. And then it turns out that Kaifis Kane is actually just a legit, pretty great commissar that knows what he's doing. And he's really not that big of a joke. Like he's not a, he's not a schlucky idiot at all. He deems himself a schlocky coward.

In reality, he's actually just has a very important self-preservation. It's the kind of thing where I think, like, Kane is a very good guy. but he has like horrible imposter syndrome or whatever yeah exactly and so he constantly deems himself as an absolute buffoon undeserving of his title

when in reality he's probably the most competent commissar I've ever read about with a close second going to Ibram Gant yeah I was I was thinking about that I was like you know I think it's a better commissar than Gunt Gond is a great like

general and commissar combo um cane is just he just gets people he he's a fantastic liar he's really good at reading people he's just he's a I mean he's manipulative and he's got like kind of stuff but it's normally for

and I find the irony in saying this it's normally for the greater good oh the irony is not lost on me yeah good good yep I was shocked that the main conflict of this book centered around peace treaties with the Tao yes yes it did because the Tao and the rogue traders

are trying to take over some little backwater planet um shit what was it planet called gravelax gravelax yes because okay yeah gravelax and uh rogue traders and the Tao are kind of like forming up there

and they're trying to take it over and we're the Imperium, we can't let that happen. We can't just let the Zenos win. Yeah, I was not expecting that at all. It was interesting because it starts off, in the beginning when it starts off, and it's more of like reading, it's in tone the first person

because it's the memoir of Caius Kane. It's read by, I always thought her name was Amelie. I guess her name is Amberly. It's Amberly, yeah, but the way the VA said it, he kind of sounded like he was saying Amelie. sometimes, you know? Yeah, but it's read by her, or it's edited an addendum by her.

And in the beginning, it annoyed me. Yeah, it's like she would jump in a little too much and just be a little too like, like she was trying to meme on Caius a little too much. And it was like, okay, okay, so let's just, let's just read the book, A, Amberley? It was also felt like my readers are dummies syndrome, where it's, I need to explain the overarching world more in order for you to get it. Yeah. Kind of thing.

Though, I guess if you are just jumping into 40K and this is like your first book because everyone's like, oh, Kyvis Kahn, that's a great place to start. It doesn't hurt to have that to make sure that like the little intricacies aren't lost because this is your first 4A into 40K. I actually think Kaivis Kain would not be a good starting point. There's actually quite a lot of jargon they throw around. Kane is like a veteran He's like I've dealt with Dukari

He even mentioned an Eldar homunculus in the book Did he? Yeah, it was in the way beginning When the prisoners were on the stands And the sniper guy had He said he had dead eyes The last he's seen in an Eldar homunculus Oh

I missed that Or it probably didn't register Because we hadn't talked about the Dukari yet We hadn't done that episode Yeah, I was trying like yeah sure Whatever some dumb elder But you know I'm gonna

I'm going to be totally honest. As the book continued, because there's a lot of things he talks about, like nids and necrons and things no one would really understand if you didn't know 40K well. But the book really gets better at around the halfway point.

It picks up heavily. Yeah. I guess the first half is sort of like introducing you to like how Cain is. Because like when he first shows up, it's like, oh shit, these Valhawlin troops that are kind of like mish-mashed together. like a, there's like a Valhalla group that's all men,

and there's a Valhalla group that's like all female, and they fucking hate each other, and they are happy to see a commissar. They are thrilled that a commissar is there, and he's like, oh shit. He was trying to run away from the dining room fight, and someone said, like, Commissar, help me. And he just, I'm just imagining him, like, twisting around,

like that scene from Megaminds. Yeah. When the hero guy's like, uh, pick up, that broom. Pick up that broom and get to clean. And everyone's like, what? And then they realized they were like, oh shit, this is out of hand.

Everybody started cleaning and that's how he fixed it. It's, it's, the first half is obviously showing his competency as a commissar and all that kind of stuff. Also setting up the whole, um, and I will admit, the whole Tao Zenoist stuff, this is kind of cool as, as it was in the beginning when you had a little conversation with the crout, which I guess crutes are Russian. I, I guess, yeah. I also, did they really

when he introduced himself, he's, I am crude, I was like, oh, dude, stop. Like, you know, like, I am Groot, except I am Crute. I think this came before Guardians the Galaxy did. Oh, fuck, did it? I, uh, so Guardians, the Galaxy's ripping on 40K?

No, I don't, I think he's, no, I think he literally said, I am crude, like, like, yeah, it's like, he is a crude, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think that was sort of reference to I am Groot. Yeah, well, as a nerd, whatever.

Originally published December 2003. Oh, shit, it was way before. Oh, my God, this book is like 18 years old. Holy shit. Holy shit. I didn't realize it was that, well, I guess it has to be, because there's like 40 Kai Fis Kane books, aren't there? That's true.

But, you know, because in the beginning, a lot of the characterizations weren't really there. You heard a little bit of the Volholl and generals and all that stuff going on. Like, that's not right, but it, it really didn't sync him. It was interesting when Emily, or Amberley

was like the singer and introduced yourself like, wait a minute, isn't that... Isn't that the editor? Isn't that the one that was talking to us? And isn't that the Inquisitor? Yeah. One thing I wish they did... Shia says Garzy Galaxy comic started in 1960. Whatever. That's the kind of actually

comment we get in the actual comments where it's like, shut up. During like the trial or whatever, when those the mutineers, the worst of them, were on trial? I wish they had maybe described everybody a little bit better.

Because by the time they show up again, it's really hard to juggle all of them and remember who the fuck they are and what their names are. I only remember one, and that was the sniper. Salar or something? I don't even remember his name.

I know it starts with an S though. Yeah, yeah. But who, by the way, I am livid how he went out. I was so mad. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. He, that was. We'll get to it.

We'll get to it. Yeah, he gets the bitch treatment. I was thoroughly upset by that. I was like, are you shitting me? I really liked him. Yeah, he was, he was great. And, oh, he got that. But I agree.

I mean, it was, it was cool to have the prisoners back. Because it was a great, like, oh, we set it up in the beginning, and now it's all paying off at the end. That was great, but, yeah, there was, it could have been a little bit better in terms of naming, though I guess they didn't last long, so. I mean, they lasted for a good chunk of the later act, to be fair. Yeah, anyway. But, yeah, but now they're not anymore.

No, no, no. Did any of them survive? Uh Sniper got shot One other person got blasted by I think a tower Or someone else Yeah

One of them deserted Because they told them Yeah fine If you don't want to be here Just fucking desert And then And then Diergen killed them Which was the best part of the book

Oh yeah And then the last two got And the last two got affected By Gene Steelers And they killed them Yeah So no So no none of them was lived

Which is disappointing I thought they would kind of become like a recurring, like, because I'm positive now that Amberley and Kyiv has been set up, we're going to get this kind of Mass Effect level rag tag group where they've got the scribe with the Lisp, and then you've also got the crazy psycher lady, and you're going to have this little rag tag, and then you've got Kane and Yergan, you're going to have this little group, you know? And I thought that some of the prisoners, particularly the sniper, would have been part of that group.

And I'm really sad about that. Yeah, I thought at least the sniper would make it out. There was somebody else. I forget who they were. But Caiaphas was just like, wow, they're, you know, I thought they were kind of a schmuck, but they've really proven themselves. And when they get out of here, I really want to give them command. And I forget who, I thought they were going to make it out.

But then immediately they just get bodied and it's like, oh, well. Anyway, we're kind of putting the cart before the first. horse a little bit. A little bit, but there's so much to talk about in the middle of the book, though. It's a lot of, like, I mean, great to this entire segment where they are, there's a whole political espionage, Tao ambassador gets killed, and then they have to escort the angry Tao back to their place, which I will admit, they've acted, they did a pretty great job at showing off how frightening the Tao's weaponry are.

Oh, yeah, they definitely did. I'm kind of talking about flying dinner plates with guns. He's like, oh, it's the drones. It's the drones. I did like how they eventually got the Tau ambassadors back into their little enclave. They knew it was like surrounded by like Zeno, so they just had the Tau ambassador stand up and be like, let them pass, let them pass. They're doing this for the greater good. And everybody's like, oh, Tau.

Let's get out of the way. Make a path. Make a path. I thought that was pretty. dope, actually. All the greater good stuff. Like, the Tao are actually, I haven't read the far side books or anything, and I'm sure those are better, but the Tao are actually treated very respectfully in this book.

Yeah. They are, if you're a Tao fan, you'll probably be okay with this. Yeah, I think so. Overall, I'd argue. I mean, they definitely, you know, there's obviously a lot of like, ah, fucking Zenos and shit, but it's, the book is treated very much like, wow, the Imperium. are awful people because the Tao have been almost nothing but acceptable to them the whole time. And yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but the whole, um, the big thing is, yeah, like, uh, ambassador dies. And they're like, oh, God, this is going to spark a war with the Tao. And the Imperium's like, we can't afford that. We, we can't afford to go to war with the Tao here because like, we think there might be,

another hive fleet hanging around somewhere, the necrons are looming, we just, we can't put resources into starting a war for this fucking little backwater mud ball, nobody gives a shit about you planet. So they want Caiaphas to like figure out what the hell happened, who's trying to start a war with the Tao, because nobody wants that. And so it's up to him and Amberly Vale. to figure out who killed that one ambassador and why they're trying to spark a war that neither side really wants. Right?

And it's about the size of it? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, if they could, they would just wipe out the towel completely, but the towel have, like, the four neighboring star systems. Right, right. And so it's definitely more of, like, a border issue. Yeah. But outside those star systems is a high fleet.

Yeah, which is also a problem. And so, and then, but it turned out past that, then in reality, there's also a gene stealer colt problem. There is. They don't find that out until they get the prisoners and go down into this little system of, I guess it's the undercity, isn't it? They go to the undercity that Amberley was investigating earlier. I really like how he's introduced himself to the road trader because he has his arm in a sling and he can't reach

the pastries. Oh, right. Remember that? At the first time, that's how they, he's like, allow me, commissar.

He's like, oh, hello, sir. Yeah, because I was in the sling. That's right. I forgot about that. There's some parts like that that are pretty good.

Honestly, I didn't, I didn't really like have, this is a very consistent breathe out of my nose faster book. Mm. As opposed to a complete laugh riot. Like,

I found myself laughing a little more Harley in the, Infinite Divine. Oh, absolutely. Just simple things like Trazen stepping out of the portal, shooting Orkin in the face. It's like, I don't have the thing.

And it's like, I don't care. And he just leaves. Like, that kind of shit. That's laugh out loud. This is like, oh, yeah, that's amusing. That's, yeah. I think... Go ahead.

Go ahead. I was going to say... No, no, no, please, D.K. Whenever, whenever they talk about Governor Grice is pretty amusing because Caiaphas Kane is, like, almost certain that he's either in competent or inbred.

In reality, he kind of was. He was a jean steeler. Yeah, he was part of the jean steeler called. That's, that's, and then that's, it's revealed that all of this is basically his doing. He was a gene stealer the whole time. He used his third arm to shoot the ambassador, so nobody could really tell because, you know, he, oh, my God, everything is, oh, it's so crazy. And everybody just thinks he's incompetent, but he's been dealing with the rogue

traders and he's been he's been planting people in the tau and yeah yeah i was i was reading a summary before this started because i haven't read in like a week so i read a quick summary and i got to tell you i think it's like i don't know if it's the official warhammer wiki their summary is so wrong because they said grice was the was the patriarch grice is not the patriarch he's just a normalized gene stealer they did have to fight a patriarch which almost fucked all of them up, but it was not Grice. Grice was not the patriarch. No, Grice was very, he was the, I guess, the leader in a sense, but not that kind of leader. Yeah, not that kind of leader. They fought the damn patriarch, which, speaking of, let's,

let's talk about my boy, my boy, Juergen. Let's talk about our main man, Yergen. He's a great German baker. He should have, he should have won the great British breakoff, but he was, he was screwed because that one week, everybody did too well. Yeah, mm-hmm. Poor Yergan. Poor Yergan. Anyway. Did you catch that he was a blank before they told you?

I did not catch that. I did. I caught it because the nids are psychically attuned, and they were recoiling when he got close, and I was like, wait a fucking second. Is Juergen a blank? I think at that point I might have thought, actually, I think at that point I might have just thought, well, not psycher. I thought there was something up with him, and he might have been.

But prior to that, I didn't. But yeah, once they started fighting the nids and Grice was like, keep that thing away from me! It was like, oh, really? There's something little special about you, Juergen. Besides the fact that he smells like shit and he's a little gremlin. Kivis Kane took every chance he had to talk about just how disgusting and putrid the odor of Yergan was. Every goddamn chance he had.

And it could, you know, I always wonder, maybe Yergan doesn't even smell that bad, but perhaps he's just, the blank just makes you think he is. Maybe, maybe that's the uncomfortable sense that the blank puts into Caiaphas and he's just gotten used to it because he thinks it's a smell. I mean, I don't think that's the reason, but that'd be kind of funny. Also, I found this really good artwork of, of, uh, Kane and Yergan that I find really funny. I look, I really, I was the Simpsons kind of dry. I just let this fucking nose. That is pretty great. I like that. That is quality Kieffus Juergen art.

But Yergen, because that's another thing, is that we didn't get much Yergan in the first half. This is the reason why the second half is so good is because once you get revealed with Amberly and all the characters, and then you get the big thing in the bottom, you get the undercity, you get all the prisoners reestablished.

You get a bunch more Yirgin. It's like it all really just pins. up. Yep. And it gets really good. And also Amber Lee's little commentary in the book gets a lot better because it gets very sassy. Yes. Because she's reading stuff about herself

and she's like, well, I you know, that was a stupid place for a table. Oh, that was my favorite fucking part. It's a stupid place for a table anyway. Gets shot, disruption field teleports her when she's diving for a gun. She hits headfirst into a China table. A dumb place for a table.

It's a sweet place for a table anyway. Yep. Honestly, I think Amberley Vale is one of my favorite female characters in 40K that I've read about in a while. She's really well written. She is. I thought she was quite great, too. It's just, it's surprising because she's very, like obviously she's meant to be very, very, very attractive and all that. But she's super smart.

Very? Very competent, but also has this fun, like, kind of flustered nature about her when she doesn't know what's going on, because she's not a soldier. Yeah. And I don't know. It's just, she's very, her fucking, um, shrew, not shrewd, but like, um, kind of slightly embarrassed, sassy comments as she reads the thing. It's good. Yeah. It adds a lot.

And then it's like, in the beginning, I thought, oh, her little excerpts are, here's how the story is for dummies. now I realize it's oh no it's a little bit more characterization for her yeah yep she's also pretty good in a fight because she's technically the one that kills Grice because she has a ring that has like a poison dart in it and she's just right into Grice's neck that's called a digital weapon I believe yeah it's a digital needler I think is what she called it right yes digital weapons are a thing that some inquisitors have as well as

I think like some Space Marines It's like a little little gong With some fancy pants of bullshit in it I have to remind myself In 40K digital weapons Are weapons that go on your digits

And not like Computerized digital Yeah I'm like oh that's right I hate it Yep yep yep Yeah there They go on the digits

It's a ring Goes on your digits Look what we did there It's funny But I But I really, I really liked her character. I thought she was super well written. And, and I don't know, from all the other female characters that we've read of so far,

which isn't many, because this is Warhammer. But of the ones I've read in the, like, the Primark books and stuff, she probably is my favorite. I mean, you know, there's obviously, it's very heartwarming. The end of the book made me happy. I was like, this is nice. This is sweet. Yeah, yeah.

When they're just, you know, they've called the Gene Steeler cult. They got rid of the patriarch. They got rid of Grice. The Tao are leaving because they... The Tao just straight up left because they were like, well, you know, this doesn't advance the greater good. There's another complex situation that we don't quite understand here. So we'll just come back later when these dumb humans forget about, you know, forget about Gravelax. We're just done with this not worth it by

Unbeknownst to them But very much knownst to Amberley and Caiaphas The Tao probably took a couple of gene stealers with them Without even realizing it And they're like, should we tell them? Nah Low It'll benefit us later

If it is a gene stealer call whatever They're going to rip through the towel Makes it easier for us Bitches Nice little, nice little, oh yeah, Imperium cherry on top. Like, oh, do we have, do we have any allegiances to them

because they helped us down there? Nah. Nah. Fuck them. We're going to fight them at some point. Whatever, let him get eaten by Gene Steeler cult. Like, oh, boy. Meanwhile, after they're all murdered and tired

and Caiapus is barely alive, there's Yergan in the back. Tena, sir. Tennatee, sir. Good boy, Yergan. Yirgin is a good boy. Yergen is great. I just, I love the fucking part when they're down in the, in the, in the, in the system or with sewer system or the hive system, whatever.

And Kaine is fighting the prisoner guy and it's like, huh, Yergan, kill him. He just shoots him with a melty gun. With a melt, the big old hellfire. What is it a hell? Yeah, it's like a hellfire gun or something. It's a giant microwave laser beam. Yeah. It just disintegrates.

And Amber Lai's like, dude, don't forget the marshmallow. and Juergen's like, oh no, really? I forgot. Yergan takes everything so seriously. He doesn't, like, he doesn't get the jokes. I love the VA for that. He's like, oh, because you roast marshmallows. And this is a melt a guy.

Yes, yes, Yergan. Okay, Yergan, let's go. Let's move along. Fucking Yergan. And he had the standard guard uniform that was too big, while all of the others were very surprised. Like, what the fuck? this outfit fits.

Garden uniforms always come in two sizes, too big and too small. And Yergan had the standard too big. Well, because Yergan's a little gremlin. He's like short and strange looking. Yep. That's the only part of that artwork you posted that. I was like, oh, Yergan should be a little shorter than that, isn't it?

I don't know how tall. I don't know how tall Caiaphas is. That's true. That's true. Apparently, this is actually Yergan from one of the books, book covers. Whoa, Juergen looks like a badass. What the hell? I look a little closer on his face. He's kind of ugly. Oh, is he? Oh, yeah, he's, oh, God. Yeah, he is kind of beat up, isn't he?

But he looks like a battle-hardened, like, warrior. Like, he doesn't look like a little, you know, pint-sized gremlin that has bad B-O. He looks like a, he looks like a, you don't fuck around with that guy. Well, they've been working together for 13 years, and that man drives a, drives a tankly, he drives a motorcycle. So I would say that, yeah, I'm assuming he's a rugged, badass, but he's also just like an aide. He's doing both. Yeah, yeah, okay, fair enough, fair enough. Yeah, I think we get on all the, uh, you're gonna hands you, you're gonna hands you the Tanna. Do you accept?

Of course. Arnold passes you the Stogey. Do you accept? Without hesitation. If Arnold pass me a Stoge, I don't even smoke and I'd still just light me up, Terminator. There's some really good... I like the book. It's definitely one of those things where I'm both impressed with how competent Kane is.

I didn't think he'd be this competent. But also, like, it's a surprisingly lighthearted and wholesome book. Yeah. I didn't think it would be like that. I thought it would be significantly more... Like, funnier. It makes... Like, it's sweet that there's, like, very mild...

romance plot going on that it actually feels very tasteful and is sweet. Yeah. And then, oh yeah, but man, I can't believe the fucking governor shot the sniper in the head. What the fuck was that?

Oh, yeah. I was so mad. That's, to get, for such a cool character to be done in by that pile of shit is, oh, it was so, because as they were going through the undercity

like he was popping heads like when they first because they meet up with a group of Tao and they're trying to do the same thing like oh shit yeah we should we should probably both try and work together to figure this out when they first met up they didn't know what the hell was going on and Solar was like oh shit there's someone way off in the distance

poop domes the shit out of him so much so that when they go and retrieve his body they can't see the wound they don't know where he got shot. Like the wound is not visible because the sniper hit him so well and was such prowess that you can't even see the damn wound. Wait. And it was like, um, like right after they, uh, meet up with the, the tau that are in there. Um, and then, uh, Amber Lake kind of like starts talking to him because apparently she's an inquisitor. She understands alien because she's, you know, inquisitor and like, oh, yeah, we should work together. And then they kind of pass by

the tau body and like, huh, I can't really tell where he was shot. Like, yeah, because your marksman's such a badass. Oh, no, I thought that, no, I don't think it was that, I think they shot the crew. The crew died, and then they left and they were like, hey, what happened to the guy that got shot? It's like, oh, you shot him really well,

very clean, he died quickly. Good job, marksman. Yeah, it was like, it was like, yeah, he got a really, really good shot and he just died fast. Your marksman is skilled. And then he has like a light grin. Yep. I was so mad that he, He got dunked on the way he did.

And he got dunked on in such a final, like, final way. Then he got shot in the face by a bolt pistol, so his head is like half gone. And so there's no coming back. There is no coming back from that. There's no chance that it's... Yeah, it's so awful. They made such a good little group that I feel the same. Like, they should have, like...

That should have been as a group for, like, the next couple of, you know, episodes or books, I suppose. Because if they had come back from that, they would have gotten full pardon. because that was like that was part of the agreement because they were like well how do we know that once we get out of here you're just going to send us us under the suicide mission like fine fine fine if you come with us for all intents and purposes you get a full part

and it's like oh he was very interesting too because he makes some good points it's like I have a question what's to stop me from shooting you in the back of the head and I'm like damn good points good question

and then Amberley's like well you can do that but then the Inquisition will be after you for the rest of your life and, you know, Inquisition, be inquisitioning. And you gotta shoot both me, you gotta shoot both me and Cain and probably Yergan. Mm-hmm. So good luck.

Good luck. And he's like, oh, fair. All right. Yergan. Yergan, slap that man's nuts. Oh, aye, sir. Beelah, bailiff slaps. I'm just imagining that whenever I need something now,

I'm just like, Yergan, kill him. I Why didn't Why didn't Why didn't Chyphus do it himself Because the

The I don't remember What the dude's Name was He was the He was the He was the Sort of

Mutonier Deserterter He said some reason Like Oh you can't do A Caiapus Because Something

I don't remember What that reason I think he was Out of range With his chain Sword or something You couldn't Close enough

And you may have Out of a gun Right Right Right Right Right Right

Just just just Just kill I was like With pleasure Sir And no more And then there were the poor lovers The two that like

Started to have a little romance Yeah one of them got shot I think and died by the one of the The Tao Yeah I think you're right And then and then the last two that survived were infected Like they really unceremoniously just killed all the prisoners And I was really sad about that I would have liked if they had been like redeemed

And it kind of has them kind of slowly be a part of the group along with Amberly and the psycher lady who's like, there's no cake! There's no cake! Yeah, at least the sniper. At least the sniper. Come on.

That none of them were redeemed is so... It's brutal. Probably my least fair part of the entire book is that part right there. And it's really disappointing. But, I mean, this is us also, like... I give this book a sawed, maybe like seven, seven and a half.

That's just because of the, like, if we were rating them in between, the first half is like a six. The last half is like an 8.5 for me. Yeah, I think solid seven. If I could impart any wisdom on anyone listening to this, do not go into the book thinking that Caiaphas-Cain is a bumbling buffoon like you've heard of

from like every meme about him. He is not an idiot. He is not a buffoon. He knows what he's doing. He just wants to survive. Like Bricky said, he has a really high, like, survival instinct. And that's not so much the, like, oh, I'm so stupid. Look at me.

Be stupid. Like, he's really competent, actually. I think the concept is that us as viewers see him a lot like the guardsman and the universe sees him. where in reality, even though he says he's not a good person, he kind of is. Yeah, he's a really good person. Like, he's, if it wasn't for him, all of the, um, all of the prisoners that came with him at the end would have already been dead. Uh, because the captain of their ship wanted them dead because they killed a, uh, provost is, it's like one of the guards on that captain's ship or something. Um, and he, he wanted their blood.

Like, he wanted them dead. immediately. He didn't even want to hold a trial. He just wanted to execute them. But it's because Caiaphas Kane stood up for them and went to bat for them that they didn't die. And they at least had the chance of redemption at the end of the book. Yeah, which is why the death of the sniper, it makes me so upset. Oh, it's the worst part. It really is. It's the worst part. Now, Shai wants us to watch the Caiaphas-Kane T-TTS.

And you know what we're going to do? We're going to watch it after we end the episode. Oh, get fucked. Let's mess with our viewers. If you want to know how D.K. feels about it, maybe you go see our Twitch, or not Twitch streams, our YouTube streams that we do every weekend. Do you, would you like to know what our next book is?

I would love to. I didn't even know we had decided. I'm excited. What's the next book? I decided because I wanted to decide. Okay. It's, uh, it's gonna be the twice dead king. Necron supremacy!

Oh, it is! Let's go! Necron supremacy! I know you started that. I didn't know if we were actually doing it. Let's go! It has been very good so far. I want to reread it. Is it, is it long? Um, it's no void stalker.

Oh, okay. Because like the last couple have been eight hours of pop, and that was a refreshing change from the, uh, not that the, uh, not that the, night night lord trilogy was bad per se but each of those was like 13 to 14 hours and it was like whoofa these are long so yeah it's been a nice change the last two were like only eight so yeah yeah yeah very easy to just power through them in like a week or less it's it's good it's goodness yeah i uh it'll it'll be solid anyway twice dead king is next we'll see you all in january for the next book club And now more we're going to watch this episode off-stream.