Adeptus Ridiculous - GALAXY IN FLAMES | Warhammer 40k Book Club

Episode Date: March 1, 2025

 https://www.patreon.com/AdeptusRidiculous https://www.adeptusridiculous.com/ https://twitter.com/AdRidiculous https://orchideight.com/collections/adeptus-ridiculous Having recovered from his grievous injuries, Warmaster Horus leads the triumphant Imperial forces against the rebel world of Isstvan III. Though the rebels are swiftly crushed, Horus's treachery is finally revealed when the planet is razed by virus bombs and Space Marines turn on their battle-brothers in the most bitter struggle imaginable. Truly, he is the Warhammer Forty Thousands. Support the show

Welcome everybody to another episode of the book club, the thing that we totally do on time every time, where you get to read and listen to all the excellent works of the Black Library, guarded by funny clowns and genuinely way better than anyone gives it any credit for. But before we get started, if you enjoy this podcast, head over to patreon.com slash adeptist ridiculous, where you can check out all the cool things, the posters, the bloopers, the discord, everything in between. I sure do love traitors. Oh, yes, love, just love being betrayed by my brothers in arms, don't you? I gotta be honest, as far as betraying goes, this book had a pretty high, like, per capita in terms of betrayals. It is the big betrayal book. This is the, this is the Istvan book. This is, oh, mama.

Yeah, this is, um, well, it's not. the Isvan book because there's two Isvon books technically. That's true. So this is like the first Isvon book. But yeah, wow. So Galaxy in Flames is our book for today. It is

the third in the starting Horace heresy trilogy that kind of really goes in with the whole thing. You start with Horace Rising. Then you get false gods and then you get Galaxy and Flames. And then I believe,

after that you get flight of the Eisenstein. Yeah. And then... Nathaniel Garrow making his trip to get absolutely gobsmacked by Dorn, right? I believe that is the book where that happens. And then,

you know, for the most part, I'm pretty sure it's like this is the trilogy, but Eisenstein is a pretty big part of it. So I guess it's like a four-parter in a sense. Yeah. But for our main cast, this is pretty much the end of their

main involvement, so to speak. Yep. So it's, you know, I gotta be, I gotta be honest. I like this book. I think it might be my least favorite of the three, but I don't consider it to be like anything at all bad. I think it's just like a step below some of the other ones, just a little bit.

What are your thoughts? I really like this book. So I don't know if it was the best. I'm gonna put it like right smack in the middle. Which one's highest for you? Horace Rising? I think Horace Rising is the tip top and then Galaxy and Flame after that. Okay.

I think I'm basically, I think I'm Horace Rising definitely. False gods and Galaxy and Flames are like about equal. Yeah, they're close. They're really close. I think the second half of false gods is a bit weaker, but when they're on the Nergal planet, it's just like, it's incredible.

True. The Nergal planet is, is a good moment, but I don't know. I felt like false gods was more, galaxy and flames was more like consistently like on for me. I think I would agree with you, though I would argue the second half of galaxy and flames kicks it's the first half's

ass because the second half is awesome. Oh yeah, because that's when you get the virus bombing. That's when you, you, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is a very betrayal level book. I'd still say it's absolutely worth a read. I mean, this is required reading if you really want to get into like the heresy era, right?

Yeah, I feel like the trilogy is required. You kind of, if you really want to get a scope of the Horace heresy, you really want to get into the Horace heresy books. You got to read these three, right? It kind of also, maybe not like wrapped up things in a bow, but it definitely like closed out a lot of loose lines or or various like kind of side

stories that I think were maybe not as interesting in the other books a bit or a bit meandering and then they kind of nicely cut them up cut them down cut them down can can arguably be a more literal phrase if needed or Torquedden

yeah so I mean we're going to get writing to spoilers at this point but but honestly like it may Did you play the Metroid Prime Games, D.K.? I did not. Really? I was, I remember, well, that was the one on GameCube? And then Metroportum 3 was on the Wii, yeah.

Yeah, I remember playing it on GameCube, and there was a lot of backtracking, and I never finished it because I got lost, and I was just like, eh, this isn't doing it for me. I mean, the game was much older. I played it when I was definitely like a tween or even maybe before that. But whenever I talk about Metroid Prime, because I love those games, for me, Metroid Prime 2 is like a 9.2. I love it. And then Metroid Prime 1 is like a 9. And then 3 is like an 8.9. This is how I feel with these books. They're all bangers. It's just like, you know, 0.1 differential.

It's a very light differential. I think they're all very good. I have my issues. I think I think Horace definitely falls a little easily. And he does some mental gymnastics to really get there. Yeah. But that's kind of, that's kind of one of the reasons why false gods has its issues. But I think the only reason I did like this one as much as that as false gods is that I just don't think the writing is, is at quite as good. It's fine.

Okay. It's just like some of the, some of the dialogue and some of like the general, like, like, beat by beat pacing. I think it's just a little off. but honestly that's kind of it because everything else like the individual moments are great it's also narrated by Toby Longworth who is once again incredible

because he's done everything I had a physical copy of the book so I have no idea how the audio book sounded oh you read it oh you read it reddit I read it read it oh you read it I read it I read it read it read it so you read it read it R-E-A-D it it I had so well I want you to read it

I read it read it. Oh, damn. Okay. Uh, yeah, I mean, Toby Longworth, thank you, Shai. You got the Fesh Pins reference. Thank you. Um, yeah, I mean, Toby Longworth did the Horacee series, a lot of them, but he also did, um,

Eisenhorn and he also did the Gonsko series and his Gonskos V.A. work is stellar. Oh, my God. He, he's able to take like six separate Scottish guardsmen and make them all sound unique. Unique. It's so good. But anyway, sorry, not to go too crazy. So Galaxy and Flames, what are like, what's the first thing that comes to your mind when you finished Galaxy and Flames? Whew.

What a, what a ride. It sure ends on a lot of, like, heartbreak and, like, oh, my favorite characters. Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, fuck. Also surprised anybody could survive on Istvan, because I kind of forgot that, like, So virus bombing, I was like, oh, yeah, flesh eater virus goes crazy. Everything has turned to sludge.

That sucks. I totally forgot you could ignite the gas from the flesh eater virus that they let loose. And, oh, boy, that sucks. Oh, and like burn the atmosphere itself? Yeah. I was like, oh, flesh eater virus. Wow, amazing. Look at all the space brains that survived.

And then slip it. It was like, oh. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it's a pretty, it's a pretty gross, gross bomb, to be honest. No doubt, clearly effective. Very effective, yep. Have you noticed that in the, also like a total side note, have you noticed in the cover art for the book? You've got the D.S. Ere back there.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's kind of cool to actually, like, see it visually, you know? Because they were, they were a relatively important part of, of the book. They were. The crew of the D.S. Eray and like the humanity finally like being like, oh yeah, you know what? Worship of the emperor? That's okay. Oh, we've even got a saint.

We've got a saint. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. The name's Keelah. Euphrates Keeler. Euphratesy Keeler. Yes.

Yes. He was asleep for 90% of the book. She's literally sleeping beauty the entire thing. She also So she Did we fit Is she a psycher Or is she just like blessed

Because she's got powers She does I don't remember if they mentioned that like She was a because she was just like A remembrancer and she just She was helping with the book of Lorgar And then she was just apparently Blessed by the emperor

And now she's got foresight Now she's got the ability to stop bullets and I think she's just blessed by the emperor? I can't tell because at first I'm just thinking oh these things sound like psychic abilities right?

Maybe she might be like a latent psycher or whatever it's called where you're not like you don't really know you got what you got but she is the one kind of creating the faith in the emperor but this is also before faith in the emperor is a good thing oh yeah this is bad times for that.

So I'm not quite sure. The easy answer would be, she's a cyker. But it's a bit of a weirdo one. But yeah, the crew of the DSA array is pretty important as well. They do a big stepy. They sure do do a big stepy. Yep, they do.

They most definitely do a big steppy. Also, can I get some respect on my quite evil, but badass Maggard The bodyguard Oh the bodyguard Who is being like Slowly morphed into a space marine

Like a quasi astardies Yeah Dude is Loyal to a T To a fault To a fault And he absolutely is a huge thorn In the side of people

For at least a couple scenes Oh yeah And then he gets It's a huge thorn put through his jaw. Yeah, he gets shot, right? By, um... Well, he gets, he gets shot in his wound, but then doesn't, um... Oh, um, the...

Ayokton or something puts his sword, like, right through his jaw, doesn't he? Yeah, I think it's, um, and then it's Cinderman who shoots him, I think, right, after that. Yeah, Cinderman shoots his wound. Right, right, okay, that, that's right. Um, oh, oh, no, it's, um, Lacton Cruz. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, the, uh, the, the, the, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the half-heard, the old guy.

The one that's helping, helping the humans get free of the remembrance are culling. I really, I always thought it was funny because, like, I kind of like Magrott a little bit, because the dude was literally a serf, a slave to,

um, she died in the last, in the last one. Um, it's not Mercedy Allotan. Is it, it's, it's Petra. Petra. Petra Var. Yeah, that's one. I kept calling her Petravee. Petravee. Yeah, because she was like strangled to death by Horace.

But I remember because he was like slave and concubine to her. And I remember there was that part in the last book where he like mouths like fucking bitch or something to her because he can't speak because his tongue is removed. And I'm kind of like, I'm kind of like, you know what? He deserves, he deserves to have his day of the sun. He deserves to cause problems because he may be on the on the bad side. Oh, bad side, you know what I mean? Um, but he's, uh, he didn't have the best life. No, no.

I, I, I totally understand why Maggard would become what he became. He was pretty, he was like, look at, look at me rise in the ranks. I'm a damn near a starty's now. He's pretty cool. I, that's also one of those, um, well, speaking of closed loose ends, uh, the remembrancers. Yeah, that's that they tied up that loose end. Yeah, they, um, Horace is like, come. everyone. Check out this virus bombing. Also, bye.

Yeah. That was when Horace finally says out loud like, yep, the emperor's bitch. I don't like him. We're not doing his thing. I'm doing what I want to do. You guys want to see war. Congratulations. Here it is. And then just guns them all down, with the exception of a couple who get away. With that we just mentioned, yep. Yep. Euphrates Keeler, Cinderman, and then the half-heard guy. And I think Mercedes-A-A-Litt. Yes, Mercedes-A-Litt. And then they all eventually escape

and head on over to the Eisenstein with Gero. On a thunder. I like how at some point horses, like, can we please get some extra guards on these Thunderhawks? They keep going missing. That is really funny. Please. This is the second one in less than an hour.

Oh, right, because the other one was a Tarvitz. Yeah, Saul Tarvitz took one. Okay, so, so remembrance or the side, Saul Tarvitz. My boy. What a chat. What a guy. Oh, God. I was like, Saul Tarvitz seems out.

He seems kind of all right. He's just like this emperor's children, dude. Like, he's fine. That was in the other books. Holy. Yeah, he really steps into the light on this one and is, who. He was an absolute, like, Holy crap.

He is him. He is actually him. He probably is the, like this was the Saltarvitz book. The dude, the dude is like, oh yeah, we're getting murdered by Horace and friends. I'm going to be the biggest thorn in his side you have ever seen. Yep, he may win this, but we're going to bleed his ass so dry. His whole campaign is screwed. I think he genuinely delayed Horace by like months.

Oh, yeah. Like he, he held that, that, I think it was the Coral City Dome. Yeah. The central part of the city. Who. He, he held it for genuine months, like, kept, fought against the traders for the longest time. He does have an old Horacey mini, too. That's pretty solid for an old mini, actually.

Well, actually, I don't think it's actually that old. I think it's just like resin. Ah, okay. Oh, maybe, maybe it's a little old. I don't know. If it wasn't for that son of a bitch, Lucius. Dude. Who knows?

Okay, so before I was like, man, I hate Erebus. Now I'm like, Lucius is a bitch. Man, I hate Lucius. Lucius. Yep. All because people were like, oh, wow, wow, Sal Tarvis is doing really good. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Sal Tarvis and Lucius was like, but what about me?

I do really good. I beat the big scary dude that was holding the city. Boo, boo, boo. It's like, Lucius. Stop it. It's insane. Like, I actually, I'm actually really excited for, so I know you don't know this, but like the Emperor's Children Codex is coming out. And it's got like, it's got problems.

It looks like fun to play and has some like awesome rules. But they basically like act. So when World Eaters came out, they like got rid of a crap load of chaos units. And they were like, what the hell, ma'am? And then this one came out and they got rid of like even more. and so it's like a double like you don't even have the tanks like you have like a land raider

and a rhino and that's it and so it's kind of like what the hell man you know but uh so there's a lot of problems going on with that even if the rules look really really like fun and the models look cool but now

I'm in this feeling where I see all of the luscious crap and I'm like I hate him so much I am definitely using him in my army absolutely and like after reading this and I was like, oh, man, I hate Lucius. And it's like, oh, hey, there's a new Lucius book coming out called Lucius the faultless play.

And I was like, I need it. Yep. Now I really want to learn more about Lucius because I despise him. Yeah, he's, oh, he is the main villain. And I have no idea how he survived that last little onslaught and got away from like the, like they essentially bombed his ass, didn't they? So he So Lucius is like Ugh

Tarvitz is so cool and good Hey hey hey traitors How about How about I like kill everyone And you welcome me back into daddy's arms And they're like okay And then in fairness He killed like 30

Staris by himself Like he absolutely slaughtered them And then I will say absolutely phenomenal callback to have Tarvitz punch him in the face. Oh.

Phenomenal callback to Horace Rising. I completely forgot about that. Amazing choice. Mm-hmm. Do you know his nickname, D.K.? Lucius, the Eternal. The Eternal, right? Because when he gets super chaos-pilled,

it's like, I remember you telling me, me about this. It's like if you get any joy out of killing him or any emotion, it's like he takes over your body and you become a face on his armor, right? So he's literally eternal. Yes, but this is before that. Oh yeah, this is way before that, but that's how he gets the eternal nickname or is it just because he's just so good that he's even now he's Lucius the Eternal. I think, I don't think he's Lucius the Eternal yet. I think he's just Lucius. Okay. I at least I'm pretty sure he says i don't think they ever refer to him as the eternal in this book but yeah uh yeah he's he's the eternal now but uh i think actually in it in a sense i don't even know if luci's like still

in there it's kind of weird i like i don't know if you turn it into lucius i think you just like take the the like the demon who is luci i don't know i got to look in i got to look into luci's a bit more maybe his new minnie looks great oh maybe this book maybe this book you know yeah maybe this book God, that cover is so rock star. I do love how they're going with the glam rock with the emperor's children a lot more. But, yes. So, yeah, Lucius, like, he obviously, like, lost the duel against Tarvitz and everything. Well, no, he was going to win and then Tarvitz pushed him in the face and then reinforcements arrived, et cetera, the whole deal.

Yeah. Really, I mean, if we're being perfectly honest, the main meat of this book is the Coral City. Right? Them being down there. We don't get much Gero, but I know Gero is like Luton's favorite character. So you must love Flight of the Eisenstein because that's got to be completely centered around Gero. I think he's, I think he's, I think it's Luton's favorite book. I think it's his favorite book.

Makes sense. Yeah. I mean, it's no soul hunter, but it's, you know, I wouldn't know I haven't read it yet. But, okay. also love how Horace is having a little Portarabo feelings there when he's like, oh, we got to move on and Angron's like, I can't wait to kill everybody. He's like, oh my God.

Angron, why did Angron go down there? Oh, Jesus. It's like hurting cats with you people. I think it is so funny because it's just, it's like, okay, oh God, this Tarvitz guy, he's causing me so many problems. Garrow is causing me so much. many problems. Now it's anger on doing it. Are you kidding me? Yep. He definitely has a per

trouble. I am surrounded by idiots moment. Yep. Yeah, it's it is very funny. But I mean, I got I mean, most of the book is just like a lot of major setup. You do get a little bit of like Idleon in there and and Biles, weird shenanigans, which is kind of why Tarvitz is like, nah, I ain't interested. Oh, that's true. I, I forgot about the, um, Bile and Idleon offer Tarvitz's like perfection if he'll just undergo these weird experiments and Tarvitz is like, fuck that dude. I'm out. No way, man.

No, thank you. This is BS. I'm out. And then during that time, of course, you have like, I mean, then there's all like the virus bombs. And then of course there's Garrow kind of getting away and that whole deal. I feel like the whole book really is just. leading up to the three main main ending bits

which is Tarvitz and Lucius Yep And then of course Abidon Axamans Loken And Torgaden And they

Oh no And Torgaden has to dual Axi man I don't know why Up until this point I was like oh Torgaden's totally got a little horace Like he's totally gonna like cream his crops and he kind of got bodied although Loken was kind of getting

bodied by Abidon too Well Abidon bodies Lots of people Yeah Ah classic Horace heresy era artwork Foof Good time That's a little dated sure

Yeah It's so it's a little dated sure But it feels very I don't know I kind of like it It's kind of quaint Like they got this really cool picture of Tarvitz.

Oh, oh, well, that's not really an embed fail. It's not quite an in bedbill. It's just about, though, like, oh man. Yeah, that picture of Tarvitz, he is seen. That is, he is on Istvon. He is not having a good time. He is just barely surviving. He's got like the more stern version of the Vietnam War stare.

He sure does. He does that endless, glassy-eyed stare of just, I've seen hell, bring it. Yep. But, but yeah, the big, the big climax of the book is Garville Locum fighting Abidon and Tor Godin fighting Axeman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what happens?

And Torgaden gets ahead of himself. Damn it. You had to do it that way. I did. I'm sorry. If we're going to do that. to Ferris Manus, we have to give equal opportunity joshing to all of them. I'm sorry, Torgaden, loved you.

You were the comic relief. You were best bro. But I knew he wasn't going to make it, too. Like, his days were so numbered the moment he was like, more of all, eat shit last in false gods. But I'm, oh, it's so sad, man. That one was tough. And I feel like in like the last book, like you really get attached to Toradden.

too. In this book, it didn't feel like he had quite the big role, but in the last one, he was such a bro to Loken. And it's just like, I got really attached to him in the last book. And then it's just like, oh, no, don't, don't do it. Someone stop Axeman. I feel bad too, because Axeman isn't particularly like a terrible dude either. Oh, yeah. He is, he goes through like super, like, you can see he is guilted and depressed by the fact that he had to do that. Yeah. He's, it's really unfortunate because like he's, he's very clearly like, come on, man, don't do this. But then he, you know, he, he believes in Horace in the, uh, the more traditional sense. Not like chaos corrupted, no of that weirdness.

He just kind of believes in like, you know, the emperor sucks kind of thing. He's, he's completely back in Horace. I mean, he's little Horace. Yeah. Yeah, he's a little horace. I mean, that's true. A little horace, yeah. And then we knew Avedon was a lost cause.

but Avedon always felt like a lost cause. Yeah, he always kind of felt like the war hungry. Like, you're not going to reason with him. Once he's picked his side, it's over. Yeah, he's too, I mean, I mean, he was literally trying to, like, slaughter remembrancers in the last book. He was like, what do you mean? What do you mean? We have to, you know, make things right by the remembrances and the humans.

Who cares? We're Astardis. Let them be on. happy. We'll blow them over. Each book has like the him character. Horace Rising is very much Loken and then False

Gods was definitely Torgaadin. This book is definitely Tarvitz. Oh yeah. 100%. It is, I do find it a little bit like it is very melancholy. You lose Torgaden and he's like, it almost kind of signifies something like you lose the comic

relief character and that's when it's just like this era. of Astardis is over. Oh yeah, definitely. Did you just make that shy? That's impressive. That's pretty quick. That's real quick.

I think you should have black and whiteed it. It would have... Black and white the Vietnam stare. Yeah, yeah. It would have done a little bit extra little bits. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Agreed, agreed, agreed. But, yeah, like, you know, you get like a lot of the remembrance

all have to flee Torgaden the main source of comic relief is like dead you just kind of feel like oh this is the end of that kind of brotherly camaraderie that you got in 30K

now now you're back to like this is wartime yeah it's like it is literally the fun just died yeah and it's like this is just how serious it has gotten because Torgaden's gone nobody to be lighthearted anymore it's this is serious now yeah so and then i mean then of course you know we know lokin survives um

though good to be honest if you were like reading this at the time and you were not aware of logan's later history you would think that was the end for him the dude ends the entire book looking up and watching bombs fall on him oh yeah if if i wasn't aware that logan makes it like through a majority of the horse i would assume this is it for just the more like For any non-traderist arties, I'd be like, yep, that's it. They're gone. I mean, that was, that was the final line of the book, right? What was him looking up and seeing the bombs?

Yeah, I think it was, wasn't it? I think that was like one of the very last things, yeah. I do, it is really fun. Oh yeah, because the D.S. E.R.A., they do spend a lot of time on the D.S. Erre. I must admit. They do. I feel like that's, that's another betrayal because the, the main preencepts is, is totally with Horace.

But the rest of the crew is like, oh, no, we shine the light of the emperor, love the emperor, holy. And they have to kind of like fight him off. And there's more betrayal, everybody. Shocking. Kind of a reversal from what we expected, right? Because it almost reminds me of, we're going to do a mass effect reference. Remember in Talley's loyalty mission, you have like Vos Quipqq and he's a bit of, he's a bit of like, he's on your side because he's like, I love experimenting against. against geth.

Mm-hmm. And then in the next book, he's like the good guy, or he's, wait, no, quip-quip is against you. No, he's an asshole. And then he's on your side in the third game. Yeah. There's like a flip. Yeah, you kind of convert him.

I, um, I thought that the, the prince. Yeah. Um, I thought that the, uh, the, because in the, in false gods, the dude reading about the emperor, you're like, oh, shut it. annoying ass like like stop doing that because like the princess was kind of walking his ass around

like with a bunch of swagger drinking and he's like mm-hmm uh whatever man um but in this book yeah he's kind of the asshole he sides of the horace and he shoots the dude dead yeah he does and he's like

oh yeah kill the death card no big deal everybody ha ha ha ha ha ha te oh yeah shut up shut all the vans guess what's coming down everybody and they're like oh oh shit you knew yeah he was fully aware and then he saw all of them fighting down in that big building and he's like oh big stepy yeah totally just literally steps on the building they're all fighting on the building yeah

they assume i mean again the amount of times people like assume someone is dead and they're not dead is getting a little farcical until you see a body or until they show you the body just assume that they survive somehow yeah It's pretty humorous because of the same thing out. It's like, oh, Logan must be dead. He was underneath that. Happens all the time. I got out.

I'm okay. Well, because there are starties, right? Their bodies heal at an exponential rate. They're super soldiers. Of course, a simple building falling on. You wouldn't kill you. Also, can we talk about the part when Karin the Betrayer is in the book for like five minutes and immediately gets impaled by a dozer blade of a tank?

and he just gets driven away. Because he was fighting Loken and they're just, they're having a moment and they're struggling. And then I had to like reread the page because I was like, wait, what just happened? How did this fight just? What?

What? The dude guy hit by a drive by. You really did. And Logan's just like, yeah, I just sunk in the mud, let the tank fall over me. And Logan just gets mauled over and he's gone. And I'm like, That's how you end the fight with Karn?

What? Literally is dueling Karn and Karn just gets like shanked by the dozer blades of a tank. And then just like gets driven away. I'll be back. And it wasn't it like a Sons of Horace tank that did it too? It wasn't even like it wasn't even a loyalist tank. Okay. Honestly, it would be more on brand if it was a World Eater tank.

That's true. It would. Boy, they really paint the World Eater. as just brainless savages in this too. Yeah, they don't treat them great, honestly. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, the world leaders, what are they best for? There's going to be wave after wave of civilians.

And we need someone to absolutely control and massacre all of them. Who's the best for that? Those idiot world eaters. It's, yeah, yeah, they don't treat them great. No, they don't. And Angron is constantly just being an, you know, an idiot. And horses like, oh, God, Angron.

Yeah, World Eaters, maybe not. If you're a fan, maybe not the book for you. No, no. I mean, the book for you is Betrayer, and that comes down later. Oh, hell yeah. So you can have that one in the future, but just not now. The author was not a fan of the World Eaters. It's really funny, though.

It's very melancholy, this book. It's very, like, bittersweet. Because on one hand, you knew it was coming the whole time. but you just you just didn't you just didn't like realize I don't know you didn't know how it would go down

yeah the specifics and just how bittersweet it would be and and I it's it that Torgaden thing hits so hard and that really I feel like because he was such an important character that you just can't help

but fall in love with it just really hammers home just how like crazy serious this actually is I mean we all know it's serious, but it's like, oh, oh. Yeah, it was a big. And it just like sits in your stomach and yeah.

And then, and then so like obviously, uh, we know Loken comes back in the future, but it's later on you generally, I mean, if you read it in an order, you would think he'd be dead, right? You would think he, that's the end of him. I was like, oh, yeah, the big climax to this trilogy is Loken somehow just bravely going out in a blaze of glory. Maybe Avedon kills him. Maybe Horace gets him.

important character is going to kill him where it's like, oh, you fought valiantly against named character, whatever, but. Yeah, that's what I would have assumed Loken's end would be. Yeah, I think if I'm not mistaken, I don't remember if it's, I don't think it's confirmed, but it's assumed he's one of the Grey Knight starters, Loken. Would make sense. Yeah, there was a, there's some, some weirdness with that. I don't think, I don't think it's like, I don't think it's exactly.

confirmed. But I do remember this is one of the first 40K books I ever read. Oh, do we know his ultimate fate in end and death? Oh, we haven't gone far enough into, we haven't done any of the end and the death, whatever it's called yet.

Crap. Is the end and death something that we can just jump to? Or is that like, oh, no, you need like primers for that from like, is that part of a trilogy? Or is that like at the very end? or because I kind of want to know what happens to him. We should not mention it.

We should not mention it obviously in this episode because I thought of one thing, but I guess I was wrong. However, well, granted, the Grey Knight founding, I think, happened before because it was made by Malkador. So it could still have been the case before his final whatever happens to him. Because I'm assuming he's dead, but I mean, it's been like 10,000 years. And most loyalists don't live that long. You need to get your chaos juice.

And he has a space marine constantly going into battle. Like even if he does find a new chapter, like, you know. Yeah. The chances that a space marine survives for 10,000 years. You've got to be one gigacad for even that, right? Oh, yeah, decently. But, um, yeah, man, it's, like, the book's really good. The writing is really good.

It's just, it's so, like, you're reading the book, and it's just like this overwhelming sense of dread. Oh, definitely, because especially if, like, I was going to say, especially since we know what happens in the Horace heresy, we know how it ends. It's just like there is definitely this black cloud as you get closer and closer to the end because you know what's coming. I am curious for people that got into 40K with no prior knowledge, don't know how the Horace Heresy ends. Reading these three books has got to be a trip. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I do think you kind of need to know how the Horace heresy goes, though,

because the books kind of do make the assumption that you do know. I guess that's true. It opens up, right? It's like, I was there the day Horace slew the emperor. It kind of does make a slight assumption that you're aware of what's going to happen. That's true. It does. It does.

And wasn't this one, didn't this one start with, I was there the day Horace turned on the emperor? Yeah, or like Turn Trader or whatever it was, yeah. Mm-hmm. So there is a little bit of that still going on. True, true, true. But it is, yeah, it's odd. It's weird. But it's, it's good, but damn, man.

It's pretty good. I also liked how this book was like, you could really see the both sides really, like, leaning hard into their new religious faith. It's like one side is going heavily towards, Oh, it's totally fine to worship the emperor now. We have a saint. And the other side is just like, all hail chaos.

We love chaos. Horace is the best. Oh, my God. Hoorah, Horace. Yeah, he's a lot. Well, was it all hell chaos or was, well, some were chaos. But not. Some were just like Horace in general, right?

Yeah, yeah. Some were just Horace in general. Horace is with the ruinous powers. And it's like, wow, there really is a stark contrast in the direction both religious extremes are going. Yeah, yeah. Ah. Ah.

Yeah, this trilogy is quite a... I don't, not feeling... It is not happy go-fund times. No, no. Like we said, this book definitely felt like reading through it was just a black cloud, because it was just this sense of impending dread with every page, because you know,

you know, not too many people make it off, Istvon, we kind of know how that war ends. We kind of know that they do eventually make a siege on Tara. And it is the Black Cloud book. It is absolutely the Black Cloud book. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I mean, recommendation still clearly.

Oh, yeah, still a high recommendation. Read the whole trilogy. Yeah, you genuinely should. I mean, I don't know if I would say it's required reading for 40K because most of the time 40K is just like what you like out of it. Uh, but up there though, but in this one, like, if you, if you want to know why people like their space marines so much, this is probably why. Mm-hmm. Band of brothers.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a huge part of it. Well, hell yeah. With that all being said, uh, to our viewers, thank you for, for listening. If you enjoyed the book, do, do, of course, share. Uh, the next one, do we want to go straight into the flight of the Eisenstein or do we want to take a, take a slight break, uh, and try to. something new.

Hmm. Personally, I kind of want to read this Lucius book, man. Ah, the faultless blade? Yeah. Is it, is it out already, I assume? And this is just a special edition of it that's coming out? I think it's for pre-order

this weekend, which is also when the Emperor's Children's stuff comes out. Okay. So do we maybe want to do Flight of the Eisenstein and then after that do Lucius? Just because it's on pre-ordered now? Or do you want to just jump into it?

Well, no, the thing will take, um, uh, it'll arrive in time. I'll say in time. Not that we're very good at these book club timings, but. I was going to say, so in the next two months. Yeah. I think it will be up. So, so let's do Lucius next. Okay.

Um, it's, considering how awful that guy is. I am so okay with doing a bit of Lucius. Oh, man. And they paint him as such an amazing warrior, too. Like, oh, my God. Like, you just, you can't beat him in a duel almost. And, Ron, why do you? Honestly, that's half the fun for, I gotta be honest.

I'm just like, damn, he's so good, but he's so bad. Yeah, it ain't bragging if you back it up, I guess. Yeah. All right. Thank you very much all our viewers for, for watching. listening, we will see you coming in next week. Peace. Bye.