Adeptus Ridiculous - HORUS RISING | Warhammer 40k Book Review & Discussion

Episode Date: September 8, 2024

https://www.patreon.com/AdeptusRidiculoushttps://www.adeptusridiculous.com/https://twitter.com/AdRidiculoushttps://orchideight.com/collections/adeptus-ridiculousIt is the 31st millennium. Under the benevolent leadership of the Immortal Emperor, the Imperium of Man has stretched out across the galaxy. It is a golden age of discovery and conquest. But now, on the eve of victory, the Emperor leaves the front lines, entrusting the great crusade to his favourite son, Horus. Promoted to Warmaster, can the idealistic Horus carry out the Emperor's grand plan, or will this promotion sow the seeds of heresy amongst his brothers? Horus Rising is the first chapter in the epic tale of the Horus Heresy, a galactic civil war that threatened to bring about the extinction of humanity.Support the show

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We have. Horus Rising. Horace Rising. Horace Rising. A book that we honestly should have read far earlier than we did. The number one most well known, or well, the first book of the astronomically large Horacee series. Kick started it all. Kickstarted at all.

Released at all. Released in 2006 by the acclaimed and accredited Dan Abnitz, one of the pillars of Warhammer writing. He is also well known for the Gaunt's Ghost series. Yep. He's done a lot for the Black Library. He has done a lot. He's done so many Warhammer books. Like iconic Warhammer books.

Ham, Aaron Dembsky Bowdo. There's a couple pillar folks. And yeah, I mean, the story of Horace Rising tells the story of the Luna Wolves during the Great Crusade and the beginning of the, it's not even the beginning of the heresy. It is, as it says in the title, the seeds of heresy are sown. Yeah. It was funny because, like, like, go into Horace Rising. I didn't read a synopsis or a summary or anything. I just went in totally blind.

As the kids say, I was raw dogging it. And, like, you see the title Horace rising, and I'm like, oh, this is going to be like, maybe this is like how Horace, like, rises to like, war. Oh, why am I drawing blank? Warmaster. Warmaster. For some reason, I was like, war smith? No. Warmaster.

And I was like, oh, maybe this is like his assent to that. Nope. It's mostly a Garvia Loken book until like the last, what, 25% of the book? Then it's like, oh, that's why it's called Horace Rising. Got it. Yeah. It's definitely, it did not take the path I thought I was going to. But before we get too into that, initial impressions.

Oh, I loved it. I was quite happy with the book. It was pretty constant, interesting stuff happening. not a lot of like lulls, not a lot of like low points where they're just like meandering on the ship doing nothing of importance. Yeah, I am satisfied and would highly recommend.

Give like eight and a half. Yeah, I think I'm in roughly the same agreement. The first half of the book flew by at a breakneck speed. The first six hours of the book I listened to in like a day. And I was like, oh my God, I'm halfway done. Yeah, it flies by.

It's just constant action. I think it is definitely one of the best, it's one of the best written 40K books. And we're not beating the allegations of 30K space marines have so much more personality than 40K space marines, especially after beating a certain video games campaign recently. We'll get into that at some point, I'm sure. I'm sure. But, wow, it was so cool to, like, just listen to space marines have actual personality and lots of it.

Torgadden, for example, is such a little shitter. Oh, yeah. And he's always the ones, like, kind of lightening the mood, like, when things get just a little too tense, right? That's him, or is it the other one? Yep, that's the one. So the main characters of the book, that Horace is around a decent amount. but it's not a ton of horace. He kind of makes cameos here and there.

Like, he shows up when he needs to, but like, it's not the horace-centric book I thought it was going to be. No, this is a Gavrio Loken book. 100%. And I love Gavrio Loken. He is such a cool guy. He's a very human space marine, which is kind of, I think, part of the whole schick is that he's a very human, he has very human thoughts and worries and one. And inner splice between him is the discussions with the remembrancers, which are like journalists, artists, documentarians, all of them. Like the name suggests they're there to remember what happened.

Which adds a very good human element to the actual story as well, which is good because it's always a really great way to translate. but basically like have that dichotomy between more human elements and more star these elements. So those are the main bits. And it really just kind of tells the story of Garville Loken and the Luna Wolves dealing with Great Crusade stuff, but also dealing with concepts of brotherhood and a new position. Yep.

The Horace has a group known as the Mornival, which are his close advisors, I guess. Yeah, close advisors. And one of them has recently died. And so Garville Loken, for his humanity and willingness to ask questions about morals, a rarity in space marines, was chosen to take over the place along with the other three, which were Tor Garrett, Tor. This fucking bugs me. There's an imperial. There's an imperial fist character that you can buy.

like a model called Tor Garadon. Oh, no. And it throws me so often. Oh, yeah, I can see how that would. If you know about Tor Garadon and you're trying to think Tor Garadon. Torgaardin. Torgaardin. Yeah.

Yeah. You all know who we're talking. You've read the book. Yeah. So he's the one who brings in lots of levity. You've got, I forget, what's his name again, Little Horace? Oh, vipus? No, not vipus.

I think it starts with an A. Oh. Oh, I can't remember. You're right, because they just call him Little Horace all the time. And, like, they just call him Horace. And I'm just like, oh, yeah, that's Little Horace. What was his name? It's like similar to A.

Anthrax, but it's like not Anthrax. Well, it's a little Horace. Yeah, a little horace. Little Horace. Little Horace was a bit more of like a bit more stern. And then, of course, you've got, you know how you always used to call him Isak. Kyle, I feel bad about this now. Yeah, old Abby.

Yep, you get Ezekiel Abidon. Yep, you do. I was, I don't know why it, like, shocked me a bit at first when I was like, oh, they're like, oh, yeah, hey, Abidon. And I was like, Abadon. And it's like, oh, yeah, he would be in the Luna Wolves right about now, wouldn't he? And he would be a loyalist right now. And it's like, oh, yeah, he's not, he's not going to be throwing Blackstone fortresses

at Acadia for a while. No, and, I mean, granted, he's still definitely a bit of a war mom. longer in the book. Oh, yeah. Especially at the end. But he's pretty fun, but still, which is nice.

Mm-hmm. You know, he's still, like, he still has levity. He still, like, makes jokes and talks about fun things.

Yeah. Stark contrast from the Abidon that I, that I grew up knowing. Yes, very stark contrast. A little different. But,

but, yeah, I mean, it really just kind of goes through the day-to-day actions of the Great Crusade and some of the more difficult mental aspects of Garville and the things that he's like doing and learning.

And it's just like the slow, not corruption, but like the mental difficulties of everything going on. Yeah. He is, he is supposed to be a naysmith. They want him to ask questions. They want him to be like the counterpoint. So, yeah. Every conversation. Every conversation with that one guy, his little tutor.

mentor. Not Sedonis, but like, like, their names are all, they all blur. Yeah, they really do all just blur. Aside from like the main, main characters, they just, it's a blur of T's and S's and Gerdons and Barlevons and Abadons and yeah. Yeah, but all those conversations where we like talked about books and the Naismith thing was, it was really, really good. It's just really impressive to see space marines have such a wealth of character to them that I never see in 40K Space Marines, with exception, like Dante and stuff.

Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know. I really liked the book. It was paced really well. Yeah. And a lot happens. Like, they go through quite a bit. I mean, they, Horace slays the Emperor in the beginning,

which I was like, nice. It's tummy cheek. Nice. I see what you did there. You set me up and then you hit me with the, it was a diverted punchline. I was like, okay, okay, all right. I will say that I'm a little surprised how much 40K knowledge I needed to really appreciate this book. I thought it would be a bit more new person friendly.

True, I guess this would be more suited to someone that kind of knows a little bit about 40K. Like, I guess you could read it with no knowledge and you'd probably be okay. okay, but like to really like, give it that kind of chef's kiss, you kind of would need a little bit. There's a lot of things in there that would be lost on you. Like for the example, in the beginning, you know, I was there when Horace slew the emperor. And, you know, they, the whole joke of that is that they're sending a world into compliance. But they have their own version of the emperor. It was like a false emperor.

But even they have, he has a golden throne. own that he sits upon that Horace shoots in the chest and kills. And it's like, okay, there's all of that lovely. There's the foreshadowing. Yeah. There's all the foreshadowing. There's all that stuff going on there. But that would be lost on you.

True. You didn't fully understand the context. True. But, I mean, to be fair, if you were reading it from Horace Rising and you were just going through all of the Horacey books, like, then that's your only one. By the time you get the Horace, like, actually. actually slaying the emperor. You're like, oh my God, that was from Horace Rising. Oh, my God, they were foreshadowing me. And, you know, you could, you mean, like, in like five years when,

when you finish all 56 books or whatever it is? Yeah, I guess it would take you like six years to get the revelation, but it would, you know. Yeah, I guess I always assume that like Horace Rising is a really good starter book for the horse for like people to get into the world. And it is in some aspects like Garvey O'Loken is a really good character and you can understand that stuff. And in the most part, the entire book is mainly about the thinking process of it all. And that like those morals and stuff and that's where I think new people can get really into it. But at the same time, you kind of like, you know, it's, there's a lot that you won't understand. Like there's a lot of terminology you need to get.

Yeah. There would be a little bit that flies over your head. that's fair i did what were you thoughts on the part when the remembrancer goes into like the bar in the beginning and like just like acts a fool of himself and gets nearly beat to death i thought he actually did die and then they brought him back yeah i i i he got whooped i i mean he's a remembrance they got a they got a let off steam and you know it's no they got let off steam and then go into a soldier, like a bar with soldiers and be like, the imperial will fall.

Everything we worked for will die. Yeah, I mean, hey, he got drunk. You didn't know what he was doing? And it happens. It happens. It does happen. That is very, very true. It's realistic.

We've all seen that guy. I really liked that part. I don't know what it was specifically, but I just, I found that part really, really good because I was like constantly tense. I was like, this guy's going to get a shit kicked. Like, there's going to be. be some locals around there that aren't going to take to his,

unkindly, and they're going to just kill him. And they didn't until they did, until there was the Imperium that did it. And of course the Imperium would do it. Oh, come to think of it. That kind of is a great setup for it all, because I was a little, it almost makes me like just,

I'm so shocked that there's some people in like the community that like I think that the Imperium are good dudes. Because it opens up and it's just, it's just like, we are right and you are wrong. And we need to teach you why you are so wrong. And then they just, like, bury this world. Yeah, and that's like the whole, like, debate of just like even the false emperor. Like, couldn't you have just left us alone? Like, you didn't have to stop here.

You could have just let us be, like, we basically more or less believe the same thing you do. We wouldn't be it. You could have just left us. alone. And then they have like the whole justification. No. No, actually we couldn't. The emperor says we're right. We know we're right. And we're going to show them why they're wrong. We're right.

And literally, Garvia Locum decides to do what a normal person would do and be like, damn, maybe we should. Like, like, why couldn't we leave him alone? And then his mentor is like, well, you see if a of a drowning child that tries to push

you away because he's scared of you, do you, will you still save him and stuff? And you're just like, oh my God. Yeah, the drowning child metaphor of like, oh, well, if he doesn't want to be saved, you still got to save him, even if he doesn't want it. And it's like, ow, that's an awkward way to justify genocide, dude. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's wild. I guess they didn't genocide them technically.

They just took over the planet. Integrated them into the empire, right? It was. Imperium. Yeah, Imperium. It was humorous seeing that, because, like, they really don't hold any punches. there. They give you the entire idea of just, hey,

yeah, like we know we're right and because we're right, we know the truth is also a moral. So it's like the good of everyone for you to for us to take you over because it's the truth. And I'm just like, holy, they are not holding

any punches. Like they are being clear and obvious. Like these are your protagonists, but they are not great. Are we the baddie? Hans? Hans? Are we the baddies? Yes, they are indeed the baddies. It's pretty wild how much they got to that point, right?

Yeah, they make it very clear that, like, yeah, the Imperium is just going to take you over because they think they're right and they don't care what you think. It doesn't matter. Yeah, that's a, and then that's kind of the struggle for a lot of it, right, was the discussion of that whole thing back and forth. we got some interesting characters cameos in this one we got uh we got luci the eternal from oh yeah yeah yeah luci i was like man it's it's interesting seeing him not as a weird demon with laughing armor face yeah he's just the good swordsman lucius yeah the great great swordsman

he's like untouchable with the sword well until lokin just it was really it was lovely watching Listen to that. It was just like, Lucius is like, Ah, on guard. And then Loki just punches him dead in the throats or whatever. Like,

all right, that's fair. Well, that's, that's what happens, buddy. That's why the Luna wolves are better because boom.

The, um, you get some sanguineous, who's a great time. You get, you get some Dorn, who's very funny. Yep,

yep. And also, um, oh, man. I don't know if this is a spoiler, but God, Aribus, you son of a bitch.

Oh my God Does he ever O just Arabis ruins everything Everything What is that guy's problem We know his problem Yeah we do

He's just a bad egg He's show He spoils the bunch He is the bad apple That literally spoils the bunch Yeah He's a rough A rough one

Oh I uh If only Kahn could have killed him He got his hands he did he did I did like Arabis well he didn't have any real

any real spots in the in the thing but um the entire like I was actually a little bit curious because the book is relatively unorthodox and I say that because for the most part it is

how do I put this like whenever it comes down to a normal book or story setup, I guess is the phrase. Okay. So there's a thing called, like, there's like acts. There's three acts, right? Sure.

And there's always a thing called like the second act low point. And then like there's the climax and then there's the falling action and so on and so forth. It didn't really follow that structure much. Yeah, it kind of didn't. It was, it was really light. Like there wasn't a second act low point really. No, there weren't, like, yeah, there weren't a ton of, like, low points, or, like, at least the low points didn't seem low. Like, it felt like it was a pretty steady, like, incline, just always going, like, up, up, up until, you know.

Yeah, to the whole thing. Interex. Yeah, thoughts on the Interrex. I, I, I, I, I had never heard of the Interrex before. They seemed. That is a lie. Wait, have we talked about them? We, of course we did.

I told you how Horace turned to chaos, but like... Sure. I understand you not remembering the specifics. Oh, okay. So you told me that like, oh, yeah, Arabis got the chaos thing, the chaos dagger from the InterEx people and... Yeah, oh, yeah. I told you the whole thing. Oh, okay.

I mean, this was a while ago, but... I just, I didn't remember, like, what they were like. And, like, how they had, like, Sagittarius people and how they knew about... chaos and how they were very weary of the Imperium because they might be bringing chaos and Garville, what do you mean you don't know what chaos is? What do you mean you don't know what's in the warp? Really? It's just interesting.

No, I mean, I don't think I've talked about that specific part about the various kinds of people and they're like. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that kind of thing. But you have told me about the Interex. Yes, yes, more just about the Interx in general. That said, I found the Interx to be really. really fascinating.

And when Garvey was having that conversation with the guard about chaos, I felt like profoundly sad. And it's like, oh, yeah. Oh, man. I know what's coming up. Yeah. This isn't going to work out well for anybody right now. No, nope.

You knew that was kind of just like, oh, boy, like, just waiting for the other foot to drop. And it's just, oh, no. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it was a really good, just general. general conversation, which was a ton of fun with that whole thing. And I loved listening to it. But I knew, because I knew what the Interrex was. I knew what was going to happen. But I wasn't quite sure when. And it really, it's really playing on Horace's brain too. You know,

the dude's like not, dude's struggling. Oh, he is struggling mightily with his, with his new position. And like, he doesn't want to just like obliterate people. He wants to come to an understanding. He wants to talk to them. He doesn't just want to mindlessly subjugate. And like all of his mournval, like, no, no, no, no, we got to just, you know, the emperor would do this. And he's like, no, I'm, I'm supposed to decide that. That's why the emperor made me war. It is a big conflict between, like, what he thinks he should do and what the mourn vall thinks he should do. Yeah, yeah, it's really kind of, yeah, because like, Abidon especially was like, Oh, yeah. Just kill them all, brother.

Swipe them off the face of the earth. We're right there wrong. What are we doing? They're brokering peace with aliens. What do you mean? Kill them all. We do not suffer the Xenos. And it's like, oh, brother, gee, I probably didn't take much to get you to turn to chaos.

I think what really, like really got me was the fact that, I don't know, I didn't expect them to be so apparent about it. Like, like, I, I'm shocked at how. how much the subtle, like, like, not even the subtlety, like, how much this has been lost on people about, like, God damn, the Imperium just like, the Great Crusade was just a pure conquering everything must die type thing. It's literally join us or burn. Often burn if you're an alien, like, if you're an alien, it's just burn. I'm like, they were so direct about it. Yeah. And it's like the only reason they didn't just burn the interwrecks to the ground is because Horace. So it's like, when you think about like all the other chapters that don't have like a horace, it's just like, oh yeah, we, we stumbled upon Zinos, you're dying. Yeah. No discussion.

Like, whoa. Because Horace is like level-minded. He's the best one. So it's like every other chapter is probably just like, nah, we're raising that to the ground. Like, you know, discussion. You imagine if you're like, if you're like per Chirabo. Oh.

You have probably Iron Warriors? Like, no way, dude. No. It's crazy. Scorched earth. Genuinely crazy. But yeah, I don't know. I guess I was just so surprised that it was so darn obvious about it.

They were very blunt about it. Very blunt. No hiding at all. The Great Crusade and the Luna Wolves are bad. They're bastards. But they're bastards made up of really interesting people more than anything. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And at least, hey, at least Loken is there being like, hey, maybe we don't have to, you know, genocide to a whole planet. Maybe we could talk to him. And then his guy is like, well, let's talk about why genocide is the right call. And then it's been just like, no, no, no, no, you're wrong. Genocide always the right choice.

Yeah, you know, you know what's the most saddening, honestly, after reading this? What's that? There's no Garville Loken character in 40K. Yeah. I was going to say. going to happen because he had sticking around. I wasn't sure if it was going to happen in this book or not. Like, I wasn't sure if that was going to be like the big twist at the end. Because I was like, man, it's, look, it's entirely possible that we have not gotten to a point in Adeptus Ridiculous where Bricky has told me about Garvia Loken. But I haven't heard of him.

I haven't heard anybody talk of him. This man is not long for post, uh, I don't know if he makes it fast. heresy and I don't know when it's going to happen but I'm not looking forward to it. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I didn't know much about Garvia Loken initially because Garveyolokin is a character specifically based around these horse heresy books and the like. But for the most part, you know, it's one of those things that I'm assuming that because the first three or three or four books, I think it's the first.

trilogy. I think it's trilogy. I think it goes, um, oh crap. I think it's horse rising false gods and then galaxy and flames. I think is how it goes. What happens in galaxy and flames? Apparently galaxy and flames is not super well written. Uh,

um, which is unfortunate, uh, or at least I'm, I'm heard that like the trilogy does not stick with as good as the opening is. Um, but even with that, uh,

I'm very much in the, um, like, oh no, well, I don't think Garville's making it out of this trilogy, so we're going to find out. Yeah, it's probably, this is probably like the Garvial lochan trilogy of the Horace heresy, right? Yeah, that's kind of how I'm seeing it. But yeah, I'm, I'm thinking he's not going to stick. I mean, we know, I mean, we know for a fact one person is sticking around. That's, that's Abidon. Abandon's going to be around for a while.

Abenon's going to be around. To be fair, we also know Horace isn't going to make it. well technically true but we we got 50 books to get there so it's okay i guess also i was going to ask you what what what the hell was samus exactly ah samus erin from metro prime yeah well because i wasn't sure like it seemed kind of like a chaos demon it seemed kind of like zinch pill to me but i wasn't sure if that was just a demon like a greater demon of zinch or something that I just hadn't heard about, didn't recognize, or if it was something else.

Is that like, because it was, it was always like whispering in people's ears. And I was like, that seems like a zingh thing. That seems like some sort of greater demon of zinch. So I originally thought it was a greater demon of slanesh, but I think I got my name wrong, unfortunately. Samis is a, I believe it's a demon, well, it's a demon, obviously. I think it's a demon prince, maybe. I don't know what demon prince it is or anything like that.

The long and short of it is that it doesn't necessarily matter. It's a demon. I think it's a powerful demon, but it's, it's demon. And that whole part with the Samus thing was really unnerving. It was great. Yeah, it was really creepy. Yeah. With it just whispering in their ears and then taking over.

I forget his name. All the names are the same. Jabal? That sounds right. Or was Jubal the one that died in the beginning? beginning to the invisibles. I don't remember anymore. Oh, anyway.

Yeah, yeah, he takes over like the space marine body and then he just, and then they think they've killed it and it just, oh, kills the remembrance her and everything. And yeah. That was, that whole Samus bit was really neat. It was, it was one of the better parts of the game, 100%. Um, liked it, liked it a lot. Uh, and it was, it was just super, I don't know, just. super creepy. I forgot Toby Longworth was the VA for this and he did all the Gons Ghost

Books as well. Oh yeah. He's he's up there with one of the higher level people. And I like I liked him a lot. He was really, really good. His voice acting. Setting for like a space marine horror game. Yeah, the whispering and stuff was like genuinely unnerving. I was like holy, that dude, that dude is this close to the microphone. It was really nice. Samis is all. It's the man next to you. Yeah, it was great. Genuinely great. I feel like a little bit of the horror was lost on me, though, because I know what demons are.

True. This would have been a great spot for someone that doesn't know anything about 40K to learn, like, here's what demons do in 40K. Yeah, you need to see the craziness, yeah. You need to have a little bit of under, like, I know what a demon. is. So I know what's going on. Yeah. But if someone didn't know what a demon is, this would be genuinely like probably terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

Yeah. Especially for people so, so big and so like crazy, powerful as a startis are. Yeah. Like when it takes out a space marines, several space Marines, it's like, oh. Oh, yeah. Corrupts one first and then goes from there. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yeah. I think the only part that I was a little bit, uh, I think the, the book for most part is all really good and extremely well-paced. If I had to, if I had to, I'd argue that the only part that was a little slow was like the spider dudes and the Emper's children. Yeah, Ember's children guys fighting the spider guys. I think it was a little slow. Yeah. Yeah, that part seemed to drag a little bit.

That was the only bit. I think my issue is that I also just don't think combat is really good in books. I have a hard time enjoying combat in books. And the only reason it would ever get, like, interesting the combat is not being sure if the character that is in the combat will live. Mm-hmm. Or, or, you know. Yeah, because sometimes the combat gets, like, a little too, like, they make it a little too wordy and a little bit hard to understand. And it kind of just starts blurring.

And it's just kind of like, you just, sometimes I kind of just zone out of the combat talk because it's like, oh, yep, they're fighting. He's doing a spiffy move all right. I'm sure. Is he dead yet? No, okay. Yeah, that's the issue I run into with that. I also run into it like, it was in the lion's son of the forest book that I think did combat some of the best because there was at least like a point to a lot of it. You know, there was him fighting off like the obliterators and then he like gets like his sword and then it's kind of like, oh, what ailments is hitting me is like you're just old bro. You're just old bro.

Yeah. There's that stuff. But I remember that in the beginning of the Lion book, he fought the two, like, giant beasts. And that was the part that I thought was kind of boring. I was like, eh, whatever. So there's a little bit of that. And for some of the combat bits, it's a little slow.

But then, you know, combat can be really good if it has the emotional weight to it. And him fighting that one guard at the end that he was chatting with was like, it's like, no, don't kill him. I'm sure it's fine. Stop. Yeah, stop fighting. It's apparently a misunderstanding, I guess. Except it isn't, Erebus actually did steal.

Herbis actually stole it, yeah. Arabis, you... Ruins everything. Everything. Absolutely, everything. Although back to, like, the mega-iracna thing, that ended very abruptly. It was just like, oh, yeah, Sanguania showed up. They warded for six months, and, yeah, everything's fine.

And it's like, oh. I thought the Interrect showed up. Oh, yeah, the Interrect showed up, and we're like, oh, yeah, sorry, guys, the beacon was a warning. But, yeah, doesn't San Guineas show up and, like, help them, like... Yeah, sineguineas shows. up because his blood angels were there. And then he, Singuis arrives and says, like, the most, like,

sad boy shit I've ever heard, which is when he's getting ready for, like, a funeral, and they're going to paint, like, ceremonial tears on him. And he's like, do not worry. I have real tears. And I'm just like, oh, my God. All right, Senguinius, all right. The line goes a little hard,

but it also made me giggle a bit. I agree. I agree. It did. It did. Oh, hey, this is actually a model for Samus. Oh. Really?

Yeah. Oh, that's old. Oh, no. Oh, that's old. Oh, no. Oh, no. Demon Prince of the Ruin storm. The Ruin Storm.

Here they are. Ooh. Yeah, ooh. It's all right. It doesn't really matter. It's not a stock anyway, like everything else. Of course, of course. That's a Horacee model.

Sure, sure. But, yeah, the entirety of the entirety of the interreg stuff at the end, I thought I was a little shock because they arrived at like an hour 30 in and I'm like, damn, this much left. Like, this is a big deal. Yeah. Although I gotta be honest, it seemed like the InterX stuff like went by way too quick almost. Like I wanted more.

I agree. I was super invested. And like at the end of it, they were just like, no, we have warded with the InterX for six months and we sent a thing, but we're going to like kind of bail now. And I'm like, damn, that's it. Like, that's that's it. Like, man, they were such. They were so interesting with like the, you know, and, and, uh, was it Horace that was like,

oh, yeah, you know, my dad said, uh, I was most like Sagittarius because he was, everybody loved him. And oh, look, there's Sagittarius people here. Oh, my God. It's all, it's all coming full circle. And I was like, okay, okay. I'm getting invested. And then it's like, boom, Arabis does this bullshittery and then Interrex gone. It's like, oh. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. It's, there's a couple of moments like that. I think that's the reason it keeps it from being like a top, like a top 10 book, I think. Yeah, it stops it from being like a 10 out of 10 or like a 9 or something. Yeah, I probably put this as like, if there was a tier list, I probably put this in like high A.

Yeah. Honestly. It's not quite as, but it's close. It's a really good book. I was just genuinely impressed how quickly it went by. And I just, especially after playing a certain video game. I'm just so... Playing a certain video game while listening to it,

you were really 40K invested, huh? No, no, no, no. I mean, like, the characters of the certain video game were just not as good as the others. Oh, okay, got you. I was thinking like, damn, these 30K space marines have such a plethora of stuff to them. Like, they're so interesting.

Yeah, it, it, like, Like, it almost makes the 40K Space Marines seem just so deadpan sometimes. Yeah, it really does. Like, oh, look, like, shy is suggesting that we do an episode next week on, like, our discussions on the new video game. And I am, my, one of my biggest things was like, man, I hope you really like people saying death to the Zenos and for the emperor. Courage by honor. Courage by honor. for like a good 10 hours straight.

There is no other dialogue besides that. Yeah, they're like, they very rarely are joking around. It's just very, yeah, they're very deadpan. And it's just like, oh man. And it's like, in contrast to this, they're like joking around. They have a brotherhood. They have pseudo illegal warrior lounges that they just get around in and just have like bruise and joke around and everybody's equal and everybody's cool. and it's like, man, they're just like, they're bros.

They're like, they're humans. Like, you can relate to, to, like, the Mornvall and, like, the Luna Wolves. And it's like, I can't, I can't super relate to, like, hoity tooty ultramarines that well. Yeah, it makes, it makes it difficult. And I'm wondering how much of that is just, you know, I mean, we know what happens to the space Marines that all become zealots at some point. And they all become crazy religious zealots. And that partially, I'm assuming, is half the reason why they lose a lot of personalities

because they turn that way. After an event like that, it does kind of, like, dehumanize you a little bit, right? Yeah, but like, yeah, damn, though, you know, I was really, I really liked Loken. I really liked a lot of these characters. And I just, I loved listening to them. And now, you know, now it's not, you know, now I'm just like, oh, man, I wish I could keep that going. Yeah, they're setting up the tragedy. When that tragedy hits, it's, yeah, yeah. I guess that's the other good part about them being so human is like, if you know anything about 40K, like, it's like,

oh, man, this is so cool. I relate to these guys and I like them so much, but in the back of your brain, you're like, oh, no, oh, no, oh, God, it's going to be awful. It's going to be awful for all these characters I love. Yeah, I'm just, I'm there, and I'm, I'm waiting for Garville the Loken's end, and I'm hoping it's at least good, but maybe it won't be. I don't know. Oh, man. I mean, although with how much Loken likes Horace and everything, maybe it's better that he doesn't, you know, get to see Horace turn traitor and betray the Imperium. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's better that he doesn't make it, because, you know, I really like seeing Horace turn traitor would kill him. Yeah, I really like a lot of the

remembrance or stuff, though. I just just, because like, there's not much to talk about with that at the moment, but they were really good and really enjoyable and I just, I liked it a lot. So I'm, I want to like kind of bow tie that a little bit and be like, you know, I forget the name of the lady

already because all their names are blending together for me. Yeah, every remembrance or just became like Keeler or something. Yeah. I think that was one. Yeah, they all became like the same person to me. I don't know. And um, uh, Horace, or not Horace's,

uh, Garvia Loken personal remembrance her. Turns out she's worshipping the emperor as a god like she's not supposed to. Yeah, she's got her secret, like tibio divinadas. Yeah, she's got her little shrine. Lorgar.

Lorgar! There he goes again. Mm-hmm. Also ruining everything. Lorgar. I mean, Erebus and Lorgar, I guess. Two peas in a pod, right? Two peas in a pod, I guess.

Yeah. Those word bears. You never trust a word bear. bearer. Never, never trust the word bearer. Except it's Argyl Tal. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, he's dead, so not yet. Oh, that's

true. In Horace Rising, he wouldn't be dead, you're right. Argyltal you can always trust him. He's a bro. Yeah, with a guy. Well, not about a bro, but... Yeah. Well, it's as good as you're going to get. It is really honestly, yeah? Anyway, recommendation, yeah?

Oh, 100%. Like, if you are in invested in 40K at all. I feel like this is almost a must read. Yeah, yeah. We definitely should have read this earlier, 100%. Agreed. I definitely should have read it earlier. Happy to read it. Next book, should we just do the next one? I sure. Should we just keep doing these until Loken's untimely demise? I think that might be the case. The next one would indeed be false gods. False gods. So it shall be. Yes. So it starts off Horace Rising by Dan Abnett,

False Gods by Graham McNeil, and then Galaxy and Flames by Ben Counter. I'm familiar with Graham McNeil. I'm not familiar with Ben Counter, but he has apparently done a couple of these books. But yeah, most of the ones I'm seeing are Dan Abnit, Graham McNeil, and Aaron Dembsky-Bowden. Okay. Oh, also real quick. Yes. At the end of the book, when Loken was like,

oh, yeah, we're just going to make a quick stop off at Daven. Did a cold shiver go down your spine? Oh, we're just going to make a stop off at Davin. It'll be fun. We'll be there for two minutes, maybe. It'll be easy. And I was like, ooh. Yeah.

Oh, Davin. Oh, no, Loken, don't go. So, yeah. Yeah. Davin is where it all happens. It's where Horace gets a shanked. It's the whole nine. Yeah, that's the start of the downfall.

Yeah. Good luck. Good luck, indeed. We'll see how it turns out. We know how it's going to turn out. Yeah, but we'll see how it turns out with how it turns out. All the minutia, all the detail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough.

That's the goal. Mm-hmm. Anyway Read Horace Rising It's very good Highly would recommend Great book Give it a shout

All the lovely bits All right Yep Give it a shout Give it a read Leave your feedback In the comments I don't know

Do whatever And then check out False Gods Once that one is complete Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Hell yeah We'll get back to you

In three to six months Three, yeah, we'll get back to you at some point. Yeah, well, we'll see you again for the next Horace Heresy book. Indeed. All right, thanks everyone for listening. We'll see you next time for Garvia Loken's long, prosperous life. Oh, don't say it like that.