Adeptus Ridiculous - THE CURSED FOUNDING: MISTAKES WERE MADE | Warhammer 40k Lore

Episode Date: August 24, 2022

Thanks to Bespoke Post for sponsoring this video! New subscribers get 20% off their first box — go to www.bespokepost.com/[coupon code] and enter code [checkout code] at checkout.Replace checkout codes and stuff with ADEPTUS20https://www.patreon.com/AdeptusRidiculoushttps://www.adeptusridiculous.com/https://twitter.com/AdRidiculoushttps://orchideight.com/https://www.collectiblesquids.com/ code: ADRICSupport the show

Welcome everybody to another episode of the Adeptus Ridiculous podcast. My name is Bricky. My co-host is dead. We are replacing him today. Before we start with that, check out our Patreon at patreon.com slash adeptus Ridiculous, where you can get a ton of great benefits like the Discord, awesome posters every month, bloopers if they happen,

and all of that great jazz. Check out the Patreon. Also, because this is me saying it, I'm going to put more emphasis on it. The merch, buy the merch, great merch. Organate.com, the description. Merch, Little Guy merch, the shirts, hoodies, black, white, all the options.

Merch. Boaster. It's great. Book club is a betrayer. 17K on Patreon will do Dorney and Heresy and Blood Angels. We have a sponsor for this episode, so I'm being fast. Roll it shy.

This episode of Adeptive's Ridiculous is sponsored by Bespoke Post. It's a monthly membership box delivering boxes of top shelf goods from under the radar brands as 90% of the products and the boxes come from small businesses based in the US. Each month, there is a slew of new products, outdoor gear, barware, kitchen goods, clothing, etc.

All based on a personal preference quiz you fill out, and they are changing every month. Each box only costs $50, but has $70 in retail value, and you get a preview of what comes before it's shipped. You can decide if you'd like to keep it, swap it for a totally different box, or just skip the month entirely completely free of charge. only pay for the things you want. And you can get 20% off your first box by clicking the link in the description, entering the coupon code Adeptus 20 at checkout, or go to bespokepost.com slash adeptus 20.

Again, 20% off with the code Adeptus 20. Thank you so much to Beespoke Post for sponsoring this video. Let's get on with the episode. Hello, Man in the Walls. I've made my way out again. We've had a swing door installed. Did you notice? It's like the one that you get for it.

a dog, but it's bigger because I'm, well, maybe a massive dog, I don't know, but I've crept out, just temporarily, just because, you know, as he mentioned earlier, D.K. is no longer with us. He's gone now. This is just the start of

finding a suitable replacement. We might be able to resurrect him. Not sure yet. We've got the lightning rod. We've sewn the bits that were taken off him. Back on. So, it's possible. Never say never, but it's looking good. All right, it's not a perfect plan. There's other ways we could go with it,

but I'm sure it'd be fine, right? We'll figure it out. He's come back from worse. Although, have you buried him in the past when this has happened? Because I know that's what happened this time. This might add an extra travel challenge. I put him in the, uh, I put him in the pet cemetery. Oh, that's not too bad. They're usually shallow. It should be okay. Oh, no, no. Stephen King's pet cemetery. Oh, all right. we're in a much bigger problem anyway anyway as shy likes to constantly post in the chat get on with it junior

you are leading an episode today I am I've I've niche you job for this one but it's yes you can you can have it back when when DK's resurrected because I think it I don't think we should put him in charge again I don't know if that was a great idea the one time we did it

It might be best to easing back in via normal means. But I do have a quote for you. Being host, I do actually have a quote, and people are going to find this one really difficult to look up, and I'll explain why in a minute. We have failed. It should have been a momentous day. A new dawn for his Imperium,

a sacred work that would push back the darkness at the edges of humanity's existence. Instead, we created failure. abominations, angels without wings. May the Omniscia have mercy on those unfortunate souls, and forgive us for our tampering with his greatest work. Ooh. Okay, well, well, did you pronounce an Omnisia?

Yeah, I really struggle with that. As I was saying it out loud, I was like, I've messed that up, but I don't want to start the sentence over again, because I don't want to mess the rest of it up as well. It is Omnisiah, but yeah, I'd mess that one up. Okay, okay, I was making sure that I wasn't. the wrong one here and then i've been saying it wrong for god knows how many episodes no no when it's pronounced when it comes to pronunciation just assume i'm wrong because i usually am well it's difficult

because because you're british and so is james workshop and and the all right whatever uh okay well it's ad mec based somehow but they say we have failed and it's uh something against his glory is holy glory or holy whatever i'm you know i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna go with are we doing like any kind of man of iron thing oh you're not you're not oh you're not like far off you're not cold. Not hugely warm, but not cold. It's definitely, I would suggest, innovation in a way. Okay, well, okay, well, innovation means obviously heretical, which, that's why I was like, okay, you know, we have failed, we've made abominations, like, okay, that sounds as if it's the Men of Iron thing, but I guess the Men of Iron was before all that. So does it have anything to do

with Call? You could say that it's, it's, uh, something of like a precursor to calls work. Oh shit. I remember hearing about some dude who wasn't called but was also call. Ah, crap. Um, God damn it. I can provide a second quote,

but it will give it away immediately, which is why we didn't use it for the first one. God damn it. It's not necrons. No, of course not necrons. I do the necron stuff. I am the one who crons. You are,

you are the Mr. Necron or so I've been told. The Mr. Necron. No, fuck. No, I don't got it. Give me another quote. Okay. It's going to give it away immediately.

The other quote is, Sun called ours the cursed founding, but it is no curse. Oh. Are we talking about the cursed founding? Yeah, yeah. You can see why I didn't lead with that. Actually, that, okay, I think it does remind me.

It was, the cursed founding is when all, the all the jean seed and stuff got all fucked up right and a whole bunch of these successor chapters got screwed wasn't it the lamentors one of them yes the lamenters was one of the chapters that was that was created during the the 21st founding which is the cursed founding and the original quote is something i made up because uh when mean shall i be talking about the like the episode subject i i looked for quotes and literally really all i found at the time was some call it the cursed founding and i was like well we can't use that that's like That's not good.

I think he threw me off with the Omnisiah statement. I think I was thinking of the Omniscius statement. I was like, well, it's got to be an abmec thing. I'm like, well, kind of. But not really. It was a bit of a curveball. But it's related because it was Admec. It was Admec based shenanigans that led to the whole thing.

So once again, they're kind of to blame. Oh, it's Admec-Becan? Oh, I didn't know. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about this. Please do share, because I didn't actually know who had anything to do with the admec. So the 21st founding, which is the cursed founding, was, funnily enough, the largest space marine founding since the second. So a huge number of space marine chapters created, and the focus of it was the Adeptus Mechanicus, who decided, in their infinite wisdom, that they were going to remove existing flaws and deficiencies in Adeptus.

Astarte's gene seed, with the hope of basically producing space marines that were primark-like in their power and stature. And they had a project name, which was Project Homo sapiens Novus for some reason, but that detail is there. I don't know why they went for that, but they did. So yeah, the Adeptus Mechanicus tried to do a call before Call successfully did a call and massively improve the work of the emperor and create space marines that had effectively no flaws in their gene seed whatsoever.

Okay, why were they, why did they pull a call? Like, wouldn't pulling a call be a problem? Wouldn't the end may be like, what the fuck are you doing? Well, this was also quite a while ago. So when the 21st founding took place, it was just before the, I'm going to pronounce this wrong as well, the age of apostasy. So old, old, old, Doge Van Dyer out there.

Yeah, our man. Yep, yep, it was just before he started his shenanigans. And it's actually, technically, it's like, I believe it's the second time that this was tried. Because during the heresy, spoiler alert, there was a similar project attempted. So it's not like they were the first ones to give it a go, but they messed it up pretty badly. like most of the Space Marine chapters from the 21st founding ended up either with some sort of horrendous curse or mutation or fully defected to chaos.

It did not, it didn't go well. They were definitely not as good at it as cool as turned out to be. So, age of apostasy was 35th millennium? So I think, if I'm mistaken, the ad mech are still kind of like, M35. Hey, I was right, let's go! Yeah, nice. I know that the Amec were still pretty not stoked with that kind of stuff,

but I guess they weren't as Zeal-like, Harden in the Zeal-like kind of world as they were in before. Or at least they didn't hate it as much, maybe. Yeah, I kind of looked through because it seems like a bold move for the mechanic's, given how completely anti-innovation they are. But I couldn't find a huge amount as to why they, this was kind of deemed as being acceptable. A lot of the, I say a lot of it, pretty much all of the stuff for the 21st founding is from like old white dwarfs and stuff.

It's not something that have actually gone into a huge amount of detail about, even though they created some of the most interesting chapters out of it. So like, they did that thing, Games Workshop, where they went, here's a really cool premise. We're going to give you the bare bones of it. We're going to expand on it a little bit later on. But we're still going to leave you massively wanting more. about the original instance and they

created some actually really fun chapters like The Lamenters. They are one of the chapters that was founded during the Coest Founding and I mean, you've done an episode on The Lamenters. We know how well how well they've done overall in life.

They did. They were the greatest option for Emperor to give the world the punching bag. They got it's so unfair. It's so, it's like, And the thing is, it's not even, by the standards of the cursed founding, their, like, curse was just, they're just super unlucky. It's not even a tangible thing.

Like, in the 21st founding, some of the other chapters are growing, like, bone blades out of their forearms, or spontaneously combusting in the middle of battle, but they don't get hurt whilst they're on fire, like, from their own fire that they've magically produced. The lamenters don't get any of the cool stuff. they are just massively unlucky which makes me feel even more bad for them

because you look at what everyone else got and you go they got something cool they got something awesome they got something cool and oh they just they just suck

that's that's not great for some reason there's a recommended video I remember seeing it was a Russian Badger video and it was left for dead one and the title was built different built stupid

and I'm imagining that being the lamenters It's like, yeah, you're built, I'm built different. I'm built for tears. Oh, God. They don't deserve it. They don't deserve it. They're just doing their best. They're just doing their best.

And it went horrifically wrong. But, you know, got to giving points for trying, I guess. That's true. They also get loads of love from the fans. And they do get loads of love from the fans, even though no one wants to paint them because of their awful logo. Why would you do checks on shoulder pads? Not even checkerboard on shoulder pads,

but you also have to carve a circle out of the center for a bleeding heart. And you couldn't even make the checkerboard not white. You had to make it white. And yellow, and yellow, the worst colors of all time. Which might, you know, that might go along with the unluckiness. They were unlucky from the very start because someone picked yellow for them,

which is the worst color to paint. Imperial Fist fans. molding right now. Look, I can't help speaking the truth. No one likes painting yellow. This is a fact. It's documented. Even people who like painting imperial fists don't actually like

painting yellow. They're just lying to themselves to get through the pain. That's just how it is. That's true. Whenever I see someone paying white scars, so like, why did I pick white scars? Why did I pick white scars? Start screaming as they have an entire white-based Marine Army that needs to be clean white. They don't even get to be

dirty white. I mean, you should be allowed to do dirty white. I think dirty white's fine. Get a bit of rust, get a bit of grime on there. Say they're in the middle of a battle. They don't have to be perfect. If you want to do dirty white, white scars, go for it. Whatever gets you through the session.

Oh, you're right. That's true. Sorry, Shai told me specifically to tell you to hurry the fuck up. Okay. And her in the nice. That was me, Tony never, the nice version, you know. She actually has a loaded handgun, and she's approaching your location. I can see it. The text is so much worse than the actual verbal giving of it.

Terrible. Yeah, of course. The language is obscene shy. There's just no need for this. I don't know why people put up with it. Anyway, so the actual curse founding, there's not a huge amount of information outside of the chapters that were founded, but there was like a secondary adventure, a second thing that happened with the cursed founding. The curse founding is responsible for the Lamenters, for the Minotaurs, who are awesome in their own right and honestly deserve their own episode because they're insane. The Firehawks and the Flame Falcons, because Games Workshop has some sort of sense of humor when it comes to naming chapters, why you would do Firehawks and Flame Falcons in the same founding, I don't know. Tell me that's not confusing. Come on.

Yeah, that's rough. Though we did talk about the firehawks a little bit in our Legion of the Damned episodes, so that goes along with it. Yes, yeah, they also not particularly lucky, but they did end up with the coolest armor that any space marines have ever worn with all the fire in the bone and stuff. There's also the Black Dragons and the Sons of Anteus, and we'll come on to both of those after this, because there was a second thing with the 21st founding, the cursed founding, because it didn't stop there. So they had the founding, everything went horribly wrong, the space marine chapters went to chaos, they had weird bizarre mutations and aberrations. And then, later, much later, in M41,

the labs and the site where the cursed founding took place was actually excavated. There was an archaeological expedition to what was a dead world called Inculaba, and they found the site of the, of the 21st founding which still had stuff in it okay so after all that time there was still secrets in there which is it's one of the things where it's like you don't get much initial information but then there's great set up for future yeah it does the classic like well if you

want to we can create ourselves that our own little stories coming from it later on if we need to Yeah, yeah, it feels like it's kind of primed for all sorts of shenanigans in the future and it probably has led to some stuff because one of the things they found when they were doing this excavation and when they were looking at what the old Adeptus Mechanicus genitors, gene tautors, g-e-n-t-o-S, however you want to pronounce that, I'm assuming gene-tores when they had been attempting to perfect the gene seed which they failed at, they also created something new as well.

So along with like vid logs of project managers that showed the extent of the failure and how the different chapters were just having physical corruption and turning them into weird races, they also found three massive space marines, like giant space marines. Two of them were ruined. They're just in, like, their big, like, test tube thing,

but all the water was stagnant and messed up. But there was a third giant space marine that was still functioning, and they started to wake it up. Okay. Is it awake? We don't know. Because then... Oh, God damn it. Yep.

Come on. Surely. Surely part of you must have been like, there's no way they followed through on this. There's no way they followed through. Well, I would like, because I would look the option of like, oh, they started to wake it up and it ended up being like Tiberos the Red Wake of the Carcadon's chapter. Like that, that I would understand, you know? That would be an awesome twist, but that's, that's not, that's not what they did, unfortunately.

Because he is a big fucking dude, so. Yeah, I mean, he's gigantic. He's also one of the coolest chapter masters. just known to all space marines, in my opinion. He's very neat. I don't know if they're doing the, oh, this person's going to replace one of the missing primarks or something,

I don't know. But if the first two of them were like fucked up beyond belief, that doesn't bode well. Yeah, it's, it's already a bad start. It does get worse, but it does kind of maybe, maybe lean into what else has been going on with like changes to gene seed and stuff.

because someone was aware of this place whilst it was being uncovered and it was the man himself, it was Fabulous Bill. So Fabulous Bill. Oh no. All about this lab. He'd been alerted to it.

Someone had sent a signal through the warp actually during the founding itself. And when this excavation happened, like 5,000 years or whatever later, and they started to wake this third, figure up, they were naturally a bit unsure, a bit worried. They got the grey knights on the way to come and prevent the technology, the sacred technology falling into like the hands of chaos. But when they got there, there was no Adeptus Mechanicus archaeological team left.

There was no sign of the vessel that they travelled in. The planet was dead again. There was just nothing left of anything at all. Not even any bodies or any signs of violence. And funnily enough, the big giant space marine was also gone. And all that was left was a residual warp trail. Oh, goody. Oh, goody. So our boy Bill has a subject for himself? It kind of seems like, yeah.

Fabius Bile managed to get in there, steal all the stuff, remove all of it before the grey knights could arrive to secure it. And now there's absolutely nothing left, because they, funnily enough, bombed it from orbit and then scrubbed all of the files so that there's no mention of it in any imperial record, because it's the Imperium and they love doing that. The concept of Fabius Bile has a primarck-sized space marina toy around with from the Curse Founding, is like you don't really get a whole lot worse than that.

That's pretty high up. It's pretty cool concept because, you know, my corruption to chaos has been slow, and absolute. Even though I think Bill is a fucker, it's still rather interesting. That being said, it's also quite horrifying. I would... I don't know if I...

Is there an Imperium equivalent that I prefer to have the hands of a giant Primark-sized Space Marine? You know what? You know what? It's not in the hands of like Yuri and Rackardth or something. Like, it's not like in a homunculine.

Coven. That's true. So, so I'm okay with that. I'll find my, my purchase in that fact. There's like, there's like tears of awful people to have control of this. And he's weirdly somehow, Bill, not the worst. You'd think he would be, but not the worst. He's pretty up there, but not the worst. So that effectively is the, like all of the background from the, uh, the 21st founding. Where it gets like more fun is the, is the actual. chapters that were founded during it. And there were also, for a brief time, some cool rules. There was some actual rules for them, which showed up in, I forget the issue of White Dwarf. It was White Dwarf 260 something. So about 2001, I believe, that issue would have come out.

So right in the middle of Prime 3rd Edition, you had a couple of special rules for space marines that were kind of affected by this stuff, which kind of give even more of an insight into what the actual issues were with the space marines that were affected by it and the ones that were brought together during that founding. So you've got cursed knights.

So the cursed knights were normal space marines up to a point. These individuals are space marines who appear to have escaped their chapter's curse. They are strong, tall and proud in form, yet this veneer of perfection hides a curse often more extreme than that affecting their brethren. So they kind of look okay and normal and they seem to avoid it the worst of it, but you had to roll a 1d6 at the start of a turn,

and on a 1, they went into a berserk rage, and they would attack each other in an animalistic fury, they just went mental and killed anything that was close to them. From 2 to 5, you're okay, you had a stable mutation, you're not going to be. going to get anything bad happening, but on a six, the option for the role of a six was created a monster. So the abilities of each cursed knight are temporarily enhanced to superhuman levels. Each knight adds one to his strength initiative and attacks characteristics, but they can't withstand that level of performance for long, and after the battle, the knights

will die. Any knights that survive the battle will count as casualties for the purposes of calculating victory point, which is a really great little rule. Like it really set up. Very enjoyable. I mean, it's the old days, in the old days where the game was a total mess, but that concept that it's like, okay, you

roll a six, which means now they're permanently buffed, but let's say you took like a secondary or something like that rewards you for killing the opponent. And then they, in reality, you've given them a little bit extra points because by the end, they'll be dead is pretty, that's actually pretty fun.

I like how ruling a one just turns them into Carn. Like it's like, it's just Carn's rule. Yeah, yeah, it just made them go full berserker. It's like a really nice thing of actually properly telling a bit of a, a bit of a story through what was a trial rule at the time. So it wasn't like properly implemented, but it's something that you could do if you wanted to represent some of the curse-finding chapters actually on the tabletop.

The other one is Abominations. So this is the brethren suffering the worst extremes of the chapter, as curse are often segregated from the main body of space marines. These space marines may be physically mutated and driven beyond the point of insanity and the heat of battle will cause the curse to manifest itself in a horrific display of savagery and violence. They are frequently fielded together in squads where they should fall prey to their self-destructive curse. They will at least take some of their enemy with them. Yeah, hopefully take some of their enemy with them. Okay. I like that it's not even like, you know, they'll punch a line. It's with any look,

maybe they'll do something useful before they ruin everything. They need the, um, they need the classic like kind of what they do with like Eversore assassins, really just kind of wind them up and they just throw them into a populated area and they say, go nuts. Do you imagine, you imagine like a lore accurate space marine just just in some some douchebag planetary governor's city? You're really not going to stop him. If it's a lore-accurate one, he's just going to go. Yeah, he would kill everything. You'd have no chance.

I think in a way the tabletop kind of dilutes how absolutely horrifyingly scary space marines really are, because you always see them in like nice big armies, when really it's like one space marine could trash an absurd number of baseline humans without breaking a sweat. They would just murder everything. Yeah, I always say that, um, uh, custodians play how space marines should feel. Like, like, if you're, you're playing custodies, like one, one custodian against like 40 guardsmen, it's just nothing on the tabletop. And so having that kind of similar feel is like, it's like in the tablesop or the lore for Marines because, yeah, like a squad of Marines could take over a planet if the planet isn't prepped.

100%. Yeah, I think you're totally right with that as well. The custodies feel like space marines feel in the law, but actually in play. One of the couple of the things that the abominations get, that again, really works for telling the story through the rules of them. They get death spasm. So each time an abomination rolls a six to hit in close combat, you must make an additional attack.

You must keep rolling until no more sixes appear. So you just keep getting an exploding D6 mechanic. However, if the result of any of these extra, attacks as a one, then the space marine undergoes an uncontrolled and potentially fatal mutation, changing form and strangling all those nearby with rapidly mutating protoplasmic appendages. And so for every one of the extra close combat hits that roll one to hit, the attack will be inflicted against the Abomination squad instead of the enemy, which is a horrendous mental image, just going absolutely wild until suddenly tentacles everywhere. Gross. I was about to say,

wait, hold on, these are loyalists? This sounds like a possessed. It's pretty much exactly that. It's just loyalist possessed, which is probably why they never fully made it into actual rules, because they're just getting chaos stuff, but I would argue in this specific instance,

a little bit cooler, just because of the whole cursed founding thing, and then being potentially normal up to a point and then just losing it. I can't just imagine that. Like, he's there and the guardsman ranks, and they just burst forward. Like, like, you just see

this guardsman's never seen a fucking space marine in his life, and he's like, oh my God, the Emperor's Angels are here to save us, and he's burst 30 tentacles and strangles your friend. And like, oh my God. And then you're fighting the Tiranids, and he's like, is he infected? Like, what the fuck's going? I can't imagine the mental gymnastics,

the poor guards don't have to go through. That's what you just, I was going to say you just quit and then run, but the commissiles exist, so that's not an option. I was about to say, hold on now. They also get fearless, so they don't get pinned

and pass any morale test because what, I mean, I guess if there's a chance of you exploding into tentacles every time you go into close combat, what are you going to be scared of? Yeah, these are still the knights, right? So it's two different types,

the cursed knights and the abominations. The cursed knights have actually just got a zero to one limit so you can only have one squad of those, but you could, if you were doing, for instance, say a Black Dragon's army, you could just fill everything out, fill out your troops with Black Dragon abominations, which, funnily enough, in the page from White Dwarf

that I've got in front of me, they did just use parts from the chaos sprue. The Marine is just normal, normal tack marine, but with chaos arms and a chaos head, which, to be fair, is pretty much exactly, what the black dragons look like. Yeah. Okay, so abominations are like a variation of a cursed founding Marine.

And it's basically what I'm hearing. Yes, yeah. They're the ones where it went real, real bad for him. Gotcha. Okay, I was a little confused. Okay, so those are the various types of abominations. Wait, what are the other curse founding chapters again? So we've got...

Fire, Falk, or Hawks? Yes, so we've got the Black Dragons. We've got the blood gorgans, which I think they had their own. book, but I think it was like a good 10 years ago now. I forget the name of it. There's the fire hawks and the flame falcons. Why? The Lamentas,

the Minotors, and the Sons of Anteus. Now the Minotaurs have got a bunch of stuff behind them now. They're really interesting chapter but they are like, I would suggest probably full episode type chapter. I remember the Minotaurs a lot because they beat the fucking shit out of

the Lamenter. Yep, yeah, they went ham on Lamenters. They've also got a really weird chapter master. Is he a clone? Is he just the same dude but absurdly difficult to kill? No one knows. No one's got any idea because no one knows anything about the Minotaurs in universe. It's all like the High Lords of Terrorists say, go and do this,

and they go and do it, and they really make sure they get it done. I always remember the Minotaur's being apparently quite accurate. assholes. Yeah, they're super unpleasant to other space marine chapters. They just have no patience or time for anyone. They only deploy at full chapter strength as well. So there's no such thing as a light skirmish for the miners'ors. They just go, okay, we need to deal with this issue.

Send everyone. I'm curious about these fucking blood gorgens. I posted a picture of them, and they look like these horrifying, like world-eater-looking dudes. Yeah, they're one of the kind of more I was going to say like traditional fall to chaos ones out of this slot So yeah, unique to their chouches that unlike most traitorous d'arties that Gorgans do not tend to use fear and intimidation to achieve their own goals Much rather that you're a level of understanding and focus

That is rarely seen by the Traitor Legion So they're actually quite tactical and nice They just look horrific And they're also traitor Astardis A little bit It only took 60 years it literally took 60 years from their founding

to being declared excommunicate Trayter Oris so they I think they did like a proper speed run of turning into chaos they also just refuse to serve any particular chaos god as well

they just go full chaos and divided they flat out won't swear allegiance to a specific chaos god Shai says they're more rogue type since they're not super pro-caust but I'm looking at that dude he's got the 8-pointed star on his chest right there and like

look at that image what do you mean they're not that pro-caust look at the fucking guy I feel like they're one of those ones where they don't think they're particularly pro-chaos they're just like they just do what they want they are loyal to themselves but then again if you're going around

murdering like populations killing loyalists estarties and chapters and they might not think they're particularly serving chaos I suspect but they totally are and as soon as you look at them it's like Jesus Christ lads

you need you've got some serious corruption going on there whether you like it or not true though the Iron Warriors use chaos to fight power fight the power as you say but Iron Warriors are also pretty irrevocably be fucked up both physically

and in the head they just also do that they had a rough they had a rough time of it they did not have a rough time of it they did not have a rough time of it they were very angry that dad didn't love them and then dad's dad didn't love them

I love making excuses for their own warriors because it really does the more you read into them and the more you learn about them it really does just seem to come down to well dad's an asshole so so are we and that seems to be the main

The main cornerstone for their entire outlook. I like the Iron Warriors a lot because I like the hard industrial kind of vibe. And I also like that if people have to ask, hey, why do you like the Iron Warriors so much? My answer is because they're cunts. It's perfect. They're terrible and I like it. That's all you need to know.

All right. Anyway, what's the next one? So, Black Dragons, we talked about briefly. They have a slight issue where they grow growths of bone out of their arms and on their head for some reason, but they also get long poisonous fangs as well. So they can bite people, they can use their arm bones as swords and daggers to stab and slice. They are definitely badass looking. I really like the black dragons.

The black armour with the kind of white symbol, there's a pick that should. eyes put in. They look solid. I mean, that is also a really good picture as well because of having the armor around where the bone comes out of the forearm. That's a nice touch. I like that a lot. These are salamander successors,

right? Yeah, so it looks like these are salamanders, but they've, they're cursed. They had GENC best with and now they've got all sorts of, all sorts of fun stuff going on. They're still technically loyalist as well, though.

Like, this is a chapter that hasn't fallen to chaos. They're not, like, uh, anti-imperium. They just, they just really like, they really test, test the limits of the Inquisition just by existing. Because technically they're loyal. They, they still fight for the Imperium. They still fight against chaos. But they are also clearly physically corrupted and they have mutations.

So, well, I mean, the Inquisition have the Exorcists. that might be like the topest of heresy so there's there's obviously something that i mean there's something there i feel like if you're going to allow the exorcist you've got to allow the chapter that just has a bit of extra bone going on i feel like yeah they got a bone to pick with you you know that's all it is it's a it's a simple thing it's coming out of their heads coming out their arms it's i mean the poisonous fangs thing is actually pretty pretty cool though i just that concept makes me think of how the space wolves would occasionally, like, eat their enemies. Yeah.

To gain the knowledge. I'm like, oh, all right. I just want you to note, by the way, that the, uh, the bone to pick with your comment made me nearly drop my drink. So, uh, if, if that thud stays in the edit, that was my elbow smack in the desk as I nearly dumped coke all over my keyboard. It was good, but at the same time, nearly cost me. And I'm not happy about it. Oh, hang on. So when the usual 5% tithe of gene seed is requested the Black Dragons often resist giving it over

and sometimes have needed to be threatened with military action in order to comply with the tithe request, and when they do send it in, the veracity is unknown as each passes the most stringent tests. Some therefore believe that it is not even the gene seed of the Black Dragons. You can see why they sort of test the Inquisition a bit, aren't you? Yo, I got a drug test today and I've been smoking so much weed. Can you piss in this bottle from me? It's basically what I'm hearing. pretty much.

I mean, they've got, I mean, either they are being real sneaky about harvesting allies when they're on the battlefield, which is difficult because a lot of other

space marines not too keen on working with them because, you know, they've got weird growths all over them. Either that or there's a bit of

covert killing going on. That or, I mean, space marines are very often quite high and mighty assholes. so you probably just look at them and they're like, ew, gross, abomination. Don't look at me.

Unpure. Yeah, just don't, I don't want to do anything to do with you. You look weird. You're clearly not of the standard that one would expect for the space marines. Let's just keep you over there. I'm not interested in working together. There's also the, so we talked about the firehawks very briefly because they are, it would appear the source of the Legion of the Damned,

and the Firehawks really, not really anything that wrong with them before it went wrong for them. For some reason, they were kind of seen as, like, tainted in some way and prideful, and they wanted, like, they wanted brotherhood in a way. And so they weren't popular, but there doesn't really seem to be all that much to suggest why that is, other than maybe a bit of haughtiness, which, to be honest, that kind of stinks of, like emperors children to me. That kind of a prideful approach and trying to be

the absolute best. Like that's the only thing I can really think because even all their background material is just like yeah they were good in battle. They were effective. They didn't have any particular issues in terms of abomination type behaviour.

They didn't really have anything in the way of like just stuff growing out of them. They weren't as overtly cursed as the, as like the, uh, the black dragons. So it's kind of weird that they will look down on, but they did get, you know, the, the best ending of a lot of chapters. They might be lost, but at least now they've got badass armor,

some of them, potentially, with bone and fire. Wait, wait a, wait a fucking second. What do you mean the best ending? They've like, they've got like a horrible, constant death and decay and their bodies are, are like burning up on the inside, and they're just like, I just want to fucking die

if they are doing the legion of the damn type thing they're still going and they're still fighting that's quality I say best it's worse for them but it's best to read about

that's probably the best way to put it it's not like it's definitely awful and not something that anyone should ever want but in terms of how awesome it is it is right up there in terms of like

the ends of entire chapters they didn't just go out now they've got this whole unliving appearing mysteriously you know awesome armor design super hardy, shows up at the hour of need and murders everything. It's badass, even if it's really unpleasant for them. Well, you know, it's a hell of a lot more interesting than the Legion of the Damned

is Ferris Manus theory, so I'll go with it. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that one either, to be honest. It's just like, yeah, fine, whatever. I think the original idea is kind of cooler than that, to be honest. also also headless headless dude does not mean Ferris mass I'm pretty sure it means James Workshop wanted to do a headless horseman

statements yeah because that's that's entirely what they would do so yeah definitely what's the last one you mentioned the Sons of something okay so the Sons of Anches just quickly touch on the Flame Falcons again because we can't forget them because the Firehawks

Oh of course not For so long I kept getting the two mixed up as to which ones ended up as Legion of the Damned because Firehawks and Flame Falcons is effectively exactly the same name and I don't, people are going to say a hawk and a falcon isn't the same thing, I don't care. In my mind, the same thing. I can't get around it. They, they are mostly fine, mostly okay, but then they just randomly burst into flame during a battle. And that's, that's literally it. That's their whole thing. There was nothing wrong with them. They were absolutely fine, and then within a

century of the founding, during a great victory, their body spontaneously self-combusted into flames that didn't burn themselves, and so the Grey Knights killed them, and that's their whole thing. Wait, they're all dead? Some of them, some of them escaped,

but no one knows what happened to them. They just vanished. Greenwich, like, that's weird, stab. Pretty much, pretty much that. It was like, well, you've got a good, a good record, you've done well, you're clearly not traitorous, you've been you've been, you've been,

you've been loyal, you've fought decently, but you did, you did burst into flame that one time, so it's game over for you. Grey Knights went to their home world and just annihilated them. Well, you know, something, something, something, sisters of battle, Grey Knights, something, something, something, something.

Just intolerance, intolerance all round. It's just not a nice place. they had a power to glow with magic power that burned heretics and for that they had been called heretics in guild yeah exactly that the fact that it didn't affect them but it affected their enemies and their enemies were enemies of the Imperium

you'd think there'd be a little bit of leeway especially since from what I can tell and from all the stuff I've read up on I don't think it happened more than once I'm pretty sure it was just like the one time they had this one issue and then that was it it was like literally lights out for them

after that point The You know I can maybe understand the concept that like oh that flame looks like Warp magic Warp flame and shit And then they get spooked

But I I don't know I'm not great Grey Nights and intolerance Are like there's the The combination of words for them That's fair I mean also

I guess it would depend on who's Who got the report first If the Inquisition is okay With the exorcists And they're like well Mostly okay with the black Black Dragons, I can imagine it being a case of just one particular, very angry Inquisitor, going, no, I'm not having this. No heresy. Let's get rid. With other Inquisitors kind of, like,

looking a bit embarrassed and being like, I mean, we actually let quite a few others get away with worse, but he's off on one now. We'll just leave him to it. Let's not get into an argument because he's just going to get really pissy about it. We'll just let him deal with it and hope that he doesn't notice all the other chapters with clearly nonsense things that are happening with them. Grey Knights. Maybe they haven't ever some of the Grey Knights yet. But, God damn it.

That level, the level of Green Night Chanangays that they do. Like, I was expecting, I was expecting some kind of, I don't know, what is it? Like, more than just exploding into flames, but no. Yeah, they get a super bad rap. For what they are, they get a super bad rap. They didn't even do all that much wrong.

They just, yeah, I glow as an angel and burn heritage with holy flames. Clearly I'm the bad guy. That's, that's it. It's, yeah, hold on. Glow with an angel and burn heretics power. That sounds a whole lot like this one lady with a big thing of angel wings and can revive from the dead. You know, why aren't the father falcons go more than like the Phoenix thing, you know? Like they would burst into flames after it's suffering like fatal wounds.

I wonder if that would be let off more. Like, well, they are burning into flames, but at least they're dying afterwards, so we can let it go, because there's no evidence of the heresy left, because they're dead when it happens. But yeah, like, compared to the guys who literally turn into wolves and eat people

and the ones who drink blood, it's harsh. It's a real harsh decision from the Grey Knights, but then again, they're kind of known for that at this point, aren't they? Yeah, it really are. All right, what's next? So the final one of note outside of the Minasors is the Sons of Anteus. So the Sons of Anteus for me are actually the coolest ones out of all of them,

because they are basically space marines of exceptional durability, hardiness, size and strength. That sounds familiar, isn't it? A little bit. That sounds a bit primaris. Yeah, the Sons of Antias basically just ended up being better space marines. they are just bigger and stronger and more durable also they're like the second quote that we couldn't use to start with

was said by a sons of Anteus space marine because the chapter also has the saying that the sons of Anteus have never been defeated on solid ground they don't it's not a curse for them the curse founding not a curse because they've just ended up better than other space marines I must I mean I'm shocked that's your favorite one though

because like I imagine you would enjoy a little more misery porn than just the dudes who were bigger I think the reason I like them so much is because it's like it feels it's a very mixed bag with the with the cursed founding because it's like there's hardly any information they didn't used to be

admittedly it is since the Primaris showed up that it's just led to all sorts of all sorts of ideas of like well Well, I mean, the Sons of Antius, it feels like they're the, they are the prototype. Like, it feels like they're the ones that were a success out of all of them. The Lament has got annihilated with horrendous bad luck. You know, you've got other chapters that fell to chaos or that burst into flame,

all that ended up as spooky ghost marines. The Sons of Antias, compared to all of those, they just ended up bigger and better with super strong bones, they've been drinking their milk every day like they should, and, like, I don't know, it's like, it's like, I think it's the contrast thing. It's like when everything else is so miserable and bad and has resulted in a bunch of, for instance, a bunch of absolute psychopaths, like the Minotaur's, the Sons of Anteus are like, they're the Primaris Marines before the Primarus Marines. They were the experiment that actually went well, but because everything else went so catastrophically wrong, they're still regarded as cursed.

I guess. I guess it would make, it'd be surprising if they were the original choice for the Primaris, because I imagine the admec would be like, stay away. Well, no, the Primaris call stuff. That's right. That's a call thing. I forgot. Yeah, I forgot about that being a call thing.

It feels like a, it feels like a fun kind of accidental convergence almost. It's like calls working on the Primaries stuff to make space marines that were bigger and hardier and stronger and all of that. and it had already been done at a time where everything else that was tried in that moment just went catastrophically wrong. I just like the way the two kind of accidentally link up. That's just bigger, better, stronger space marines? Yep. What is their logo there? So they've got like a...

I think their logo, from what I thought, it was not known what their logo was, but that bit of fan art has got like a... Oh, is that fan art? Oh, shit. It looks like... It looks like a kind of... It's some sort of like eagle type thing. By the look of things? The fan art looks like that.

Yeah. The one that Shai posted, it's just an arrow. Just an arrow pointing up. Yeah, they... Again, it's like... In a way, it's kind of squandered the cursed founding,

because it's such a cool concept, and there's so much scope for creating really, like, really wild space marine chapters. Although then again, the fact they haven't expanded on it much means that if you want to do your own cursed founding chapter, like, there's so much you can do with it. And let's face it, no matter what you do,

none of it can be worse than the guys who sat on fire and then got killed. Like, nothing can be worse than that. No amount of hoagery is going to result in something that's less fun than we're on fire. And that, oh, the Grey Knights didn't like it. You can beat that easily. I really enjoy, I really enjoy the statement that it's the guys who sat on fire, because they weren't just running on fire. They sat on fire because they didn't get hurt by their fire.

The guys are literally that this is fine dog meme. Except taking literally. Like, yeah, we're good. Oh, we're fine. That's got to be a bit of artwork, right? One of those space screens where the dog is. Yeah, the official fire falcons recruiting center. Yeah.

Join now. And then it's just that picture. So the kind of official mutation for the Sons of Anteus is that they ended up with like basically super strong augmented skeletons. That was the idea behind it when the gene seed was edited. But, you know, somehow, somehow they've ended up just being bigger and better and stronger. Although one of the reasons that they're not trusted by some is the fact that there is another chapter historically who is super, resilient, which would be the death guard. And, oh, there's comparisons drawn.

There's comparisons, it's like, well, these guys are super hardy and could just walk into walls of firepower. Do you know who else could do that? So there's a little bit of, I suspect, a bit of doubt, maybe a bit of, maybe a little bit of, maybe a little bit of, of dodgy gene splicing going on potentially there. I must admit, though, like, despite that being the case, they don't they're they're kind of missing the tentacles and the bloat and the smell and the disloyalty as well they're still loyal oh yeah also also the chaos part yeah there's also that whole thing there's also the the hating of you it's it's like they clearly even if they were

even if gene seed from the death guard were used in in like the editing of the gene see for the sons of Anteus. It's not resulted in the same thing. It's clearly resulted in a loyalist chapter who are insanely tanky. And you should just take the win. Take the win where you can find it, you know? If that's what you get out of the curse founding and that's all you get, that's still pretty good, I reckon. Yeah. And as, I guess. I guess. It does show that ad mech are stupid. Oh yeah, they tend to be with all that kind of stuff. Absolutely trashed it. They did a terrible job overall.

But, you know, we did get the Sons of Antius out of it, so it's not the worst. I said, if anything, this founding proves that Cole knocked his primary project shit out of the park. He straight up Fortnite danced on the rest of the ad mech nerds. I don't know how you would ever be able to make call 3D rendered to do the Fortnite default dance. Like, I know there's a way, but there's so much.

shit going on there. He's got too many legs for that. For my money, that's like, that's too much work. That's too many legs to animate. Man's also fucking enormous. You know, despite Call being called, the man does have, is extremely competent.

He absolutely... It kind of reminds me of Per Chirabo a little bit, or Per Chirabo is just a total fucking petulun asshole, but he's really good at his job. Call is just weird, but also really good at his job. If anything, Cole is somehow weird and Perciaro, which is kind of an accomplishment because, I mean,

Perchrabbe is an absolute lunatic in so many different ways. I mean, arguably, Coles as well, but... Yeah, I mean, like, Pritcharbo's a lunatic because he's... Because he's an asshole, whereas... And he's always brooding and angry. Call is, like, a lunatic, because I think he genuinely doesn't even know what's going on half the time, and he just goes. He's like that person who has an idea, and then that's all the...

they can focus on for the next like three months. I've thought of something. I'm going to be unavailable until this thing exists. Goodbye. That's him, but in a time where you're not allowed to do that anymore. And he's also possibly 10,000 years old, might have been alive before the heresy, wiped his memory, and he definitely does not have an AI.

He swears. No, definitely not. That would be heretical. And Call is clearly not heretical with all of his basically brand-new inventions that he keeps coming out with. Totally legit, top to bottom. Oh, yeah. Oh, he knows exactly what's going on.

He's very smart. Oh, God. I love cool. So, yeah, that is pretty much everything we know about the 21st founding, the cursed founding, just before Doge Van Dyre goes off on one. And it was mostly a horrible disaster.

But, yeah, the Minosaurs, the Minosaurs are such a fun chapter and they have one of the most interesting chapter masters and it is literally an episode in and of itself covering the minosaurs. There is one little thing that is kind of funny about them, which is the fact that there's like, there could be two minor tours chapters, but we're not really sure.

Because there was a minors chapter a long time ago and then Games Workshop did the thing they do where they take a chapter or they take an idea and then they kind of update it and rebrand it, and the rebrand of the Minosaurs is nothing like the old Minotaurs, so it could be that two existed at once, or that one is just a recon of the other one, but because it's the Imperium and no one has any records and everything's knackered,

no one really knows for sure, which is a nice fun little extra for the Minosaurs. But yeah, a bunch of absolute psychopath berserkers who deploy in chapter strength, because they want to get the job done as quickly and as brutally as possible. Oh dear God, the old color scheme. Of the Minotars? Oh, my God.

That's almost worse than the Salamanders one. Oh, it's bad. It's so bad. It makes... My eyes are... I'm actually bleeding, looking at that. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, the new Minotars look way better.

I thought the Lamentas were hard to pay. See a full army of those. Let's go. Well, I'll have to... I mean, we'll have to do the Minotaris episode later because apparently... I mean, you seem to have a... just a huge hard-on for them. And I don't know much about them at all,

besides the fact that they're assholes and they balk the fuck out of the lamentors. I mean, I did at one point have a fairly sizable Minosaurs Army. I do like the Minosaurs quite a lot. The, uh, crap. I forgot I was going to say. Wait, wait, you have a pretty big Minotaur's Army. What is the, um...

Oh, God. Uh, okay. Oh, shut. God damn it shy. Oh no, my chicken. God damn it shy. Yeah, I did at one point have quite a big minusos army. I ended up selling it to start another project,

which is one of my eternal regrets. But, yeah, I like them. I like him a lot. They're very fun. They got that whole Spartan look to them. Like Astaire and Moloch's got the kind of the circular shield, and he's got the spear and the crest on the art. It's cool.

It's a good look. Oh, yeah. They've full on embody the whole Spartanist. Which I do think is also really, really cool. The circular shield plus spears. It's just really dope looking in general. Though I must admit, I wonder, I'll figure it out. I'll learn more about them in a later episode.

Meanwhile, Shia is going to burn her goddamn house down because she's about to take her goddamn chicken out of the goddamn microwave. Just to clarify, because it's only just struck me again. The time difference when it comes to us, recording together. What time is it for shy? Because if it's not, if it's not like at least

at least midday, got no business cooking a chicken. I'm just throwing it out there. You can't cook a chicken for breakfast or dinner? I mean, you can cook a chicken for like, have it ready for like one, two o'clock. But like, if it's like 9 a.m.,

who cooks a chicken at 9 a.m.? I've cooked a chicken at 9 a.m. Really? Why, though? Are you, are you, are you, Gatekeeping chicken? I've just never heard of someone cooking a chicken at 9 a.m. I've never woken up and thought, you know what? It's half past eight.

I need to get a move on because there's a chicken that needs to go in the oven. I've just never thought that. Okay, well, I don't cook the chicken because it's good. I cook it because it has a high level of protein, the low-calorie content, and I'm trying to be good with my weightlifting routine. And so sometimes I'm sick of eggs and Canadian bacon. or protein shakes and I'm going to cook a goddamn slab of chicken thigh

at nine in the morning. You know, actually, you know what? That's fair. That's fair. I'd completely blocked out the whole, like, using chicken to get swallowed. I've forgotten about that whole side of things.

I'm not a bit... You can tell just by looking at me. I'm not a big exercise person overall. So I take it back. I take it back. I can totally see cooking a chicken at 9 a.m. I think for some reason I just assumed full chicken, like a full, a complete chicken,

which just seems like madness. A full-on chicken? But, you know. An entire chicken, the whole bird? Isn't that what the rock does? Doesn't he eat like a full chicken every morning or every day? The Rock eats like 10, he eats like 10,000 calories because he works out like a lunatic. Wait, you're supposed to work out if you do that?

Okay, I'll, I'll bet. Oh, shit, I was just eating 10,000 calories in general. Pretty much, yeah. That's the one thing I always tell people, don't have a cheat meal like that if your diet has you reducing your calories per day by 500 and you do one

sheet meal but your cheat meal on a Saturday night is a full on motherfucking pizza that's like 6,000 calories and you've undone your whole goddamn week yeah yeah but you're right but also everyone loves devouring a full pizza so this has gone so far

you know what I'm not going to I'm not going to take responsibility for this I'm not going to take responsibility. Shy went to get a chicken. She brought it on herself. Post your chicken and or favorite pizza and end of the episode.