Adeptus Ridiculous - THE MASTER OF MANKIND | Warhammer 40k Book Review & Discussion

Episode Date: April 23, 2023

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Welcome everybody to another episode of Adeptus Ridiculous's book club. My name is Bricky. My co-host is D.K. And we're going to be talking about the books of Warhammer. Before we get started, if you like to support our podcast, check up Patreon.com slash Adeptus Ridiculous. And we have all kinds of cool stuff like posters, outtakes, and a major goal at 20,000, for a fantasy episode of Warhammer Fantasy.

So check it out. Also, you get access to the Discord. And also, you know, check at the merch store at Orchaday. dot com we have beautiful new stuff including sweatpants that are awesome and cool so dk have you taken off the sweatpants um no they they they are they are so comfortable they it's it's like walking with a blanket on like it's oh my god i will die in these good i will die bury me in the adeptous ridiculous sweatpants bury me in my adeptus ridiculous sweatpants oh they're so comfortable i don't care what design is on them, they're just like, oh my God.

I need to think of other designs. It's exciting. Anyway, so, Master of Mankind. Oh, boy. I'm not going to make any friends this episode. So, okay, so I am curious because I think we both agree the first two acts are quite the fucking slog. Oh, boy. That's an insult to. slugs. Did the third act redeem it for you? I think the third act was the strongest. So that's a no.

And it definitely brought it up. But I just don't think it's strong enough to redeem like the 75% of the other book. It's just, it's a lot to slog through to get to that last part. It's, hmm. I was thinking the same where I was like, okay, the question for us is not, is the book, is the book like overly great or anything? Like, is this a 10 out of 10 book for us? Because we both agree it's not. It's way too much setup, way too much filler. Yeah, it's a lot of filler. I'm, I'm also the opinion that like it is called Master of Mankind, right? So you're assuming it is an emperor-centric book. It is not. He's barely in it's... He's in it. It's like, what, three times?

You get it at, like, the beginning. There's, like, the middle part where he's, like, explaining his foresight to rot, and then there's the ending. It's three visions and then the ending. Yeah, and it's like, I was under the impression I was going to get just all emperor all day. And it's just like, he's barely there. It's crazy. So, I mean, I tried to...

have to adjust how I feel about the book based on what I expected from it and what I got from it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will say that I think the last act, the war in the web way, is pretty darn good. Yeah. Because there really isn't any diversion from it. The first two-thirds of the act are setting up characters that all play a part at the end. And that's kind of cool. It's like the it's like the everyone is here kind of thing, you know? Yeah, it's the smash brothers And for what it's worth The War in the Webway is pretty great Yeah, it is

I do like it quite a bit I found the last two hours of the book To be like pretty darn Engaging Yeah Yeah last two or so hours Pretty good But like you said once the war in the Webway starts

It's great But before that I kid you not There were times where I was listening to this and it's just like, you know how sometimes you like rest your hand on your fist and then you just kind of zone off? I would just like snap out of it after like two hours and be like, what did I even just listen to? I, it's just, it's such a tedious slog to get through like all of that. Yeah, I was not enjoying this book at all. That's unfortunate. For the first

eight hours. I was looking up, after finishing the book, I was looking up some of the consensus on the book. Because this came out like six years ago, I think. Um, oh, well, okay, well, Shai wants us to do a plot synopsis. Oh, oh, yeah, we can do a synopsis. Yeah. In a sense, we kind of already did. It's literally just setting up the characters for the war in the webway. That's basically what it is. Yeah, it's essentially just like, oh, hey, let's introduce 30 characters and then let's have them all fight demons in the webway because the demons get through because of Magnus's folly. Yeah, it opens with. with Magnus blowing open the Webway, which was kind of hilarious.

I'm not going to lie when I first said that part. Hashtag Magnus did everything wrong. Magnus did so much wrong. So much. And then it basically just interchanges between setting up new characters and Raw, a major custodian, getting visions from the emperor. And it's bounced between that stuff for about eight to nine hours. And then all the characters that were set up and Raw is all then thrown

into the webway for the major fight, and we get our first taste of the 1,000 psychers sacrificed part. Oh, yeah, you get, you get, uh, you get the first person POV of the thousand sacrifice of the

psychers or whatever, yeah. Yeah, that was wildly uncomfortable to listen to. Oh, yeah. If you were claustrophobic, that is a bad scene. I mean, that, to be fair, that is a great description of just how horrible and, like, weird and horrific it is, especially when it's like, oh yeah, some of them were just like in religious

fervor and they were just so happy to be where they were and to be sacrificed. And it's like, this is, this is icky. It is as uncomfortable as it should be. I mean, you are basically put into a coffin and then throughout around 24 hours, you are slowly drained of your life as you have panic attacks and scream and try to get let out. It's pretty fucking awful. Yeah, it's real bad. It's, which, you know, is, I guess,

apt for the situation. Yeah, it is. So, yeah, so, I mean, that,

okay, so the characters that are set up, we have, uh, the baron of the, of the, of the nighthouses,

lady, um, who I, who I actually kind of enjoyed. Yeah. Oh, I actually really like when, uh,

Jaya, right? Jaya, yeah. When she showed up, that, I, I enjoyed that. And then like how,

uh, uh, they were, they were supporting, what was it, the emperor's children, but they didn't know it. They were just like, they've always been loyal to the Empress children. They're like, and they show up in terror, and it's like, what do you mean the Emperor's Children are traitors? And it's like, oh, jail! Yeah, they were, their world was saved by the Emperor's Children.

So the Emperor's Children was like, hey, we need your help to fight the Iron Hands. And they're like, okay. And then they realized what they did and turned themselves in, basically. Yeah, guilty by association. And then their planet was destroyed. Yeah. Which was quite sad. But it was, it was her.

It was, oh, the name is always tough. Diakles, diaclyse, diaclyse. That sounds right, yeah. Diacles. Diagnacles. Diomastikles? It's the custodian, the one that's a real dick. They're kind of all.

I mean, the custodian, yeah, it's true. The custodians and the emperor are such sanctimonious pricks. A little bit. I liked raw, but, but yeah. little bit. Especially the emper. Oh my God. Yes.

We'll get on to that in a bit. But then there was the Fabricator General. There was the new admec like Uber general. I forget her original name. I think sort of an H. Health. Healthian. And then she became the Archimandrite.

Oh. Which is a whole thing. That's a big thing. Well, that's a big thing. That's another thing that we'll definitely talk about. You had incredibly based Arkand Land, who was my second favorite character in the whole book. Such a crusty old man, as well he should be. I'm no longer upset about the fact that Arkandland is the name of the Land Rader.

The Land Rader, Arkin Land Rang. I'm okay with that now because Arkandland was a baller. Mm-hmm. I'll give you that. There was Zephen, the Bringer. of sorrow, who was my favorite character in the book. Agreed. I was about to say that's my favorite character. The blood angel that can't use his weapons anymore, right?

Yep, who has had all of his limbs cut off by, I believe, Eldar and replaced with bionics that did not properly take. Yep, they didn't take. And after that, it was really just Raw, the Emperor, and, so am I missing anyone? There's like the little stint with the Titan, but that was about it. Oh, and then, oh, of course. Drachnian. Drachnian, the first murder.

Which, like, does that make him able? Because I'm pretty sure they talk about, like, the two brothers, the first one killed in murder. Like, I'm pretty sure they're referring to Canaan Abel. Oh, well, you know, I didn't think about that. I don't know if they were trying to allude that this was Cain and Abel, but I mean, you could definitely take it that way, sure. I don't think they specifically said who the first murder was. was, but yeah, I mean, that works.

Sure. Well, they often talked about it being like when a brother struck down the other brother. And I was like, that, that sounds like it's a Cain and Abel thing. Also, it took the face of like that warmonger kind of thing at the end. And I was like, is that, is that like a biblical thing? Like, eh? I thought they were just going for a barbarian. Like, yeah, I didn't, I didn't even make the religious connection to Cain, Abel, and, yeah.

So I don't know if you know this, but the sword that Abidon carries is called Draknean. Is that where he ends up? Yeah, the sword he is using is Draknean. Oh. Yeah, the echo of the first murder, the end of empires, as they always keep saying. That's a big deal. Yeah, that's a huge deal. I don't know how he turns into it.

but if you'll notice in this paint job here, as said at the end of the episode, the faces of the sword drinking in the sorrow of the people. You know, yeah, that's Abidon's hands. That's, I mean, that's a cool little detail, actually. Draknean. Yeah, yeah. I was like, when they said the name Draknean about a third into the book,

I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, I know that name. Because, man, if Draknean actually got hold of Abidon, and took over and went full Dracnion, ooh, because like the emperor could not stop drachnion, couldn't kill him, all he could do was imprison him,

like, woof. Yeah, so, I guess, so the story basically does go between that stuff. It's like bouncing between the sisters of silence and the Mechanicus gentlemen's, and then the Baroness, and then in sparse in between this we have little shots to raw getting visions from the emperor and drachnion basically being like a boogeyman murdering stuff in the webway yeah yep yep yeah

you're just getting like yeah you're just getting like battle reports about how the webway is going and it's it's like just a lot of war councils and then like you said just a lot of visions between the emperor and raw and it's just oh that oh You remember when Draknean attacked that Skatari guy? Oh, yeah, yeah. And then the Scatari had to just instantly send the message to... To whoever, but that's what it looks like, apparently. That's the drawing.

Oh, wow. Draknean. Man, that's, yeah, I mean, that works because the, the Scatari instantly got turned into like 80 pieces, and the last feeling he had was getting digested by Drachnian. So, yeah. Dying pretty horribly. Yep, he had no fun.

No, he did not. So, and really, I guess what it comes down to for this book is, because I looked, as I mentioned before, I looked at the old, like, people reviews when it came out. And most people were either very intrigued or very upset. the people that were upset were like, I cannot believe the emperor nearly died to a single pho demon. I mean, it's a pretty important demon, though.

Like, this is the first murder that's, like, been feasting in the webway in chaos, though. So, like, I don't mind that there's, like, this crazy first demon that, like, kind of sort of one-ups the emperor and is just, like, this looming threat that they don't know how to deal with. Like, they have no idea what's going to happen if, if Dragni and Eighty and EMPLegra. ever gets free again. I don't mind it either, but I know that there were some people annoyed with that. But most people were more so annoyed with the reveal that the emperor could not give a flying

fuck about his sons. Oh, I'm glad we brought this up. Yeah. Because he, what is it? I was like, oh, how come you let the primarks call you father? because that just doesn't seem like something you would do. And he's like, yeah, well, you know, fucking Pinocchio calls Geppetto Dad. You know, it's because he made him.

Doesn't mean he loves him. It's this creator. What else would he call me? And it's like, oh, man, he doesn't love his sons at all. He doesn't think, hey, he, that's why he such a bad dad. It's because he doesn't think he's a dad. No, he doesn't. What's this, you want to read Shai's thing here?

Oh, sure. Yeah, as for D.K. question of making no friends but not liking the book, you actually might make some friends, but not the ones you want. Oh, no. Oh, lovely. There are plenty of reason to hate this book, but there are quite a few of you who unironically think the emperor never did anything wrong and hate this book for portraying him in any kind of

negative way. Oh, so, no, this, I like this book's portrayal of the emperor, because now I'm full team chaos, dude. I hate the emperor. I think he is a horrendous tyrant. Oh, absolutely. The worst. And that was

that was like part of his spiel and one of his visions to Ra, right? Was like, humanity kind of sort of needs a tyrant to funnel them in the right direction. Otherwise, they're just going to go off and they're all just going to be like religious zealots doing their own crazy chaos nonsense. And without him there to sort of funnel it in. And Ra's like, wow, the hubris of this guy. What the. But yeah, he basically calls himself a necessary evil, right? Like he thinks he is he needs to be a tyrant for humanity's sake, right?

And he specifically is like religion cannot be allowed because if you start doing that, it opens up a pathway for warp entities to cause problems. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Chaos will reign supreme if you let religion run wild with humanity, yeah. Completely ignoring the concept that it's not about just removing it entirely, but more about like the correct guidance. Yeah, yeah. Like you don't just tell them no.

You put them in the right path or, you know, knowledge is power and maybe putting them in ignorance may not be the good idea. Also, well, I do think this is both cool and stuff. The simple fact that the blood, that Zeffon, the Blood Angel was watching the custodians fight and being like, they're really good at killing Astardis. Like, oh yeah. Is that what they were? He's like, is that what they were made for? Excuse me? Are custodians made to kill Astardis? What? I'm pretty positive that custodians were prepped to murder all the Astardis, much like the Thunder Warriors. And that's put me on another level of, wow, I don't like the emperor. Yeah. So, so in my understanding Shai's message, correct, that there are people that were just like, oh, yeah, the emperor can do no wrong and screw this book because they portrayed him in a negative light?

That's shocking. That is shocking. Because I was going to say, knowing what I know about the emperor, even before reading this book, right? It's like the emperor is still not a good guy, right? Like he's a terrible dad. Not exactly the best leader either when you look at all of the primarks. So I didn't realize there were people that were just wholeheartedly, emper's the greatest, long live the emperor. He's never done anything bad. Like that's actually a little shocking to me.

I honestly think that it's, it makes him interesting as a, a little more interesting as a character because he is so, um, like how can a person possibly lead the, the empire of humans without at all even being human? Like the guy is so above the concept of humanity. He's so, oh yeah.

So far removed from. that idea, that, that overarching concept, or how could he possibly understand humanity when he is so, so detached? He is so far removed from anything mortal human. Was it in this book or a different book where they specifically were like, oh, the Imperium of Man, you're not even led by a man. That thing might as well be a God on the Golden Throne. You guys are crazy for following him. I don't actually know. I don't know which one that was, but I believe you, it was. It was. whatever it could it be. Yeah.

I know I actually liked. So the lore reveals of the book are pretty significant, I believe. And I think that's part of the major intrigue. Yeah. It was, I mean, we definitely learned more about the emperor. We learned about the beginning of the thousand psycher sacrifices. Magnus's Folly, War in the Webway, all that kind of thing. We learn more about Ark and Land.

And like there is, this book is just shock full of lore reveals. Yeah, it's, it's not completely without merit, but it's, it's probably the weakest book we've read so far. Oh, I disagree. I think Creed takes that cake. Really? Yeah, because the, so, so we're not huge on this book, not because the law and stuff doesn't align with how we feel. It's because the first two-thirds of the book are incredibly slow and dull. boring. Yeah, they are. And for me, the last third kind of just a little bit makes up for it,

but not enough. Yeah. The last third was very good. That's, that's fair. The last third had me pretty, pretty enraptured. Okay, question then for you. What is, in your opinion, the best scene from the book, your favorite scene? Let's get a positive in here. Okay, that's easy. when Zephen comes out of nowhere and drives his sword into the shoulder of Draknean towards the end And he's like he's finally he's finally got his chance to fight him And he's doing his thing

He leaves that bandolier of grenades Right the hell on the back of his neck And he just comes in like a wrecking ball That was that was that was pogged dude That was it I was about to say very close to that For me it was the conversation between Zephen and Arkin Land right before that.

Those two together were so great. They were great. Oh my God. I almost wish there was a whole book of just those two rolling around, just doing whatever as like a as just sort of a side book. Oh my dad, that's the greatest pair. That is almost, that's almost up there with Trazen and Oregon. Almost.

They were a lot of fun. But I really liked Arkinlands explanation. of him being like the bird that can't breathe. Oh, that's right. And I was like, that is so depressing, dude. Oh, my God. Yeah, it is. That's right. Because he was like, oh, haven't you ever wondered why they'd, why they'd bring a blood angel that can't fight to a giant fight? And it's like, ooh, I didn't think about that. But ooh, he's a coal miners bird. Oh, no. That's, yeah, that's depressing. That's sad. Mm-hmm. And they never actually explained why his name is Bringer of Sorrow.

Yeah, they didn't. They kept bringing it up. Like, Arkin Land brought it up, and one of the custodians bring it up is like, oh, hey, you're Bringer of Sorrow. Why did they call you that? Nobody ever, they never really expanded on that. Interestingly enough, there is another short story book by Aaron Dembsky Bowden called Bringer of Sorrow, which it says at the height of the Webway War, Renaud Mechanicum, or Arkin Land ventured into the alien labyrinth, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He has fixed Grays challenge to a pair of the damage done to Zeffon. And partly, as a result, the tech priest's own tinkering. And it was like, oh, another extra, an extra extra little thing. Apparently it's a really short story, like a tiny little 10-minute thing or something.

But it's still something, I guess. Yeah. They were such a good pair, man. Damn. I, that part was great. When he, when we like cut to the next scene where he was firing his bolter, I had this huge grin on my face. Just like a dumb ass in the middle of the gym, like listening to the final bits of the book. Like, ah, yay, he's doing a thing.

Yeah, Zephen finally getting into the fight was just like, let's go. That was easily the most hype moment of the book. Well, yeah, yeah, definitely. I was, I was very pleased with it. It was lovely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Those blood angels.

Let's go. Let's go Blangles. Let's go Blangles. But, yeah, I guess, I guess really it does come down to a lot of the lore. Do you like the lore that was presented here or not? I like the custodians. I enjoy how ridiculously strong they are. And I like the reveal that they're incredibly good at killing space marines.

And that just kind of gives me this like, oh. It's very off-putting how good. good the custodians are at killing space marines. Yeah, yeah. Ironically, on the tabletop, they are also really good at killing space Marines. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. A whole thing.

Estodians for space marines in the 41st millennium, maybe? Um, I, but I think a lot of the annoyances I came with, especially at the war in the webway, was that there was a ton of stuff set up for this area and the payoffs were kind of muted. Yeah. Like, oh, we're going to set up this whole uneasy alliance between the Mechanicum and the Custodas, and the Mechanicum decide, well, God darn it, we didn't give what we want, we're leaving, and we're going to walk right into the warp and die without realizing it. Pretty much, yeah, yeah.

And then the Archimandri gets taken over by Draknean just to have a cool, like, final boss fight type thing. Which it was pretty cool, because the Archimandrite, the possessed one anyway goes it runs roughshod over everything custodian sisters nothing stands in that thing's way

no it really doesn't and it's it's fun like that part that whole thing is enjoyable but then there's random bits where like okay drachnion takes over a titan and that's crazy and cool and all it was

was to watch another titan fight a titan and then get shot by the titan he took over and then the part was over and I'm like why do we even bother? Yeah. There's a lot of times like that where it was just, it just seems like there's a lot of unnecessary like exposition and fluff in the book. Like there's so much exposition. Like there'll be a time when like the emperor's like, hello, I'm the emperor.

And then it'll go on for like eight hours expositioning me. And it's like, please, just move on. Like, I feel like there's so much fat that could have been cut from the story. I'm thinking a little bit back to, like, the Nightlord's trilogy, because it was also written by ADB. And he did often cut to seemingly unimportant characters and then often just killed them.

That's true. I think that what it did, it served the story in a lot of ways. Like, I don't remember the name of him, but he was the pilot of the ship that Octavia was on in the first, like, hour of the first book. And that whole thing of like a space marine craft is coming in. Why aren't they listening to our hails? It's getting close. We have come for you.

And then it blows up the ship in orbit and Octavia's on the ground like, oh my God. And like that part of least serves some kind of purpose, like setting it all up, setting up the night lords as like the villain. Well, yeah. But for a lot of these, it just felt like, like there was a lot of. lot of the fabricator general was his name. His name was Kane, wasn't it? Yeah, actually it was, wasn't it? And Arkand Land did not like

Kane and yeah. Yeah, but like, he was there and he had a lot of screen time in the beginning and he didn't do anything at the end. Yeah, I was trying to remember anything that Kane did towards the second half of the book.

Like, he, was he the one that set up that uneasy truce where it was like, yeah, as long as you guys make sure to protect the webway to Mars will help you. Was that him? Did he set that up? Yeah, that was the main thing was like if you need to help us retake sacred Mars if you want us to give you your fancy general. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha.

I don't. Yeah, and it just, it kind of like set up. And then the payoff was at the end, but it was like super minute and didn't necessarily. matter much. Yeah. I don't know. There was a lot of issues like that I found, which is unfortunate because some of the characters particularly Land and Zeffon were really, really good.

Yeah. I also wonder if I didn't enjoy the book as much because, like, there, like, there was a lot of new lore, but then there's a lot of lore that, like, if you're really already into 40K, right? Like, you already kind of know the lore that's happening. Like what? Well, like, when they're like, oh, yeah, we're examining Angron. And it's like, oh, yeah, I can't take the nails out.

And it's like, well, yeah, I kind of knew that. But I guess, like, if you're new to 40K, you wouldn't know that. And that would be super interesting to be like, oh, well, hey, the emperor did try to help him out. And that might be like an interesting little plot tidbit. Whereas, like, for me, I'm just like, oh, okay, let's, let's move on. I know this stuff. Let's just, right? Well, so there's three possibilities on that.

One is that that could be where we figured that part out in general. And so that could be the reveal of that to begin with, which is like, that's how we know to start with. So there's that. True, true. Could be the way, um, uh, yeah, also we're pretty deep in the Horace heresy series to begin with. So, um, so a new person wouldn't just jump right into the master of mankind book.

Uh, okay. Um, also, it's the emperor book. So maybe someone would figure, you know, I want to learn about the guy that runs the show and I don't know. Oh, the other option is that the scene is meant to show the emperor's thoughts on Angron, like a wooed primark is still a primark. Or you could say the scene's purpose was to show off Arkand Land and his, the fact that he's smart enough that the emperor calls upon his expertise.

True. So it depends on what you take from the scene. Like, why could it have been the way it was? Although Arkin Land kind of just looked at Angron and he was like, yeah, no, you're right. There's nothing you can do. Yeah, he was basically like, yeah, the butcher's nails don't just rewire the brain. It, like, replaces chunks of the brain. Yeah, it's been completely, it's not just coiled around his brain.

It has become his brain. Also, if you'd like to see an image of Ark and Land, this is what he looks like with that big ass goatee. That is literally exactly what I thought he looked like. That is exactly what I said he would look like. Exactly with his dumb little monkey. The dumb little monkey that was it Zephan that was afraid that he would just start shitting all over the place? I'm sorry. I just saw this meme right afterwards.

Why, yes, I do believe that all space ruins are abominations and the prime archivismosite's worst idea. Oh, land. Oh, Arkin Land. I love Land. He is just the best. He's a pretty great character. I'm glad we've gotten a better look at Arkin Land because before this, all I really knew was land. Raider and I thought it was a literal like land raider and you know learning that it's his name because he made it though I must say I did find the end of Raw to be a little bit interesting kind of trapping Drachnion in his body and sending him off yeah yeah then he ran he ran so far away he ran so yeah he did like that was that was pretty like I was like okay I was kept thinking to myself

seems like a baller. Why do I not ever see him after this part of the game? And now I know why. Yep. And humble beginnings for Ra. Son of a water thief. Yeah. The opening also had Constantine Valdor murder a lady for stealing the last bit of...

Stealing water. Stealing not just the water, the last water on Terra. The final water. Mm-hmm. All this because I stole water? Yeah. That was kind of funny. Constantine Valador is quite the guy.

Yeah, he is definitely a guy. That is for sure. I also think that this is a pretty good book if you like the Sisters of Silence. They're shown off as quite terrifying. Oh, yeah, definitely. With all the signing and the, yeah. Didn't, didn't, when he possessed the,

what's the big machine again, the Arca, Arcahambrite? Yeah, wasn't he killing sisters? And he was like, whoa, this is great. I feel so juiced up every time I kill one. And then all my chaos buddies get juiced up because these soulless witches are gone. Oh, this is hype. So, yeah, the sisters do come across is rather important.

I wonder how Draknean got put into a sword. That, I'm very curious, too, because he had to, for him to be an Abidon sword, somebody had to kill Ra, right? Or somebody had to extract him from Ra, right? Basically, yeah. Yeah, Shai says she has a sort of an answer. Ooh, I want to know. Whoa.

Oh, go ahead, dude. All right, Shai says at some point, Drak Nien was bound in the labyrinth beneath the Tower of Silence on Uralan, where the chaos gods themselves lock away their secrets. Abidon was led to the Tower of Silence during his first Black Crusade in 781.m.31, and, after fighting off constructs of dark energy that serves as the tower's guardians, entered the mirrored heart of Uraland beneath the crypts. Wandering a haunted labyrinth of impossible angles that was continuously made and unmade as he walked,

Abadon encountered a towering figure wreathed in golden light. The golden figure led him to the center of the labyrinth where a shard of shifting darkness hung. When Abidon grasped it, Drachnion took the form of a fearsome blairmed. So how do you get into the labyrinth? Like how did he get out of Ra? Is kind of my question. Well, Raw was shanked through the thing's stomach by the sword. True.

So Raw was dying. It was more of like a... Yeah, I guess Ra would be on death's door and it's like, hey, run as far away as you can so that, you know, Drachnion doesn't come back. Yeah, that's fair. For me, it's more of a land on the grenade. Like, Raw was jump on the grenade, basically, you know? I guess for some reason, when I read the ending, I was like, oh, oh, he's still alive.

And he's like, he can recover from his wound because, you know, he's a custodian. And he was just going to, like, continuously go as far away from the Imperium as he could with Draknean and just sort of as long as he lived, Draknean would be imprisoned. I guess I didn't take it as he would die soon after. Yeah, I mean, well, I don't know how soon after it was, because this is Abidon. I don't know what, like First Black Crusade. 781 years after, I think. Oh. So, I mean, it took him a bit.

Yeah, that's true. It did take him a little while, yeah. At least I think so. So is Draknean constantly trying to, like, take over Abidon, and Abidon is just so forceful and willful that he just fends him off? Is that how that sword works? I think, so demons always want to take over their hosts. That's just, like, the way it is. Naturally, yeah.

But I think Abidon, um, wets blood. so often and Dracnean drinks the souls of the dead so often he's kind of like you know I'm actually pretty chill with my new crim I've got a good deal this is you know no reason to interrupt this yeah he feeds me well I'm I'm eating good in the neighborhood I think in um in one of the arcs of omen books drachnian is like I want to kill I want to kill it I want to kill it I'm like shut up I'm working on it god damn it yeah yeah you'll get fed soon just chill out it's like when he was um like a hungry little puppy that's like treats treats treats treats treats Like a cat, like when a cat was ready to be fed walks up to you and it just incessantly goes, meow,

maw, maw, man. I like how we have denigrated the first murder of man to a catmine. Catnion. You ever seen this video, D.K. No, it's Drak Nyan. Oh, shit. Let's go. Nyan.

Oh, no. Feed me. Man. This video is exactly what I imagine it like. I have never seen this video, but yes, exactly. Perfect. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. You've done it.

Truly, truly, you have done it. Well done. I mean, other than that, so, I mean, final consensus overall on the book, like, it certainly got some good lore reveals. It's obviously a very important book in the Horacee saga because it's the war on the webway. Yeah. Impossible city. There's like a combination of, there's two ways you got to look at like a book this deep in the Horace

Heresy trilogy, or not trilogy, good God, quadrilliony. You have to look at it as either A, one of the books in the series or B, as a standalone book. And maybe it hits a little bit harder as a book in the series, maybe just, I don't know what the book before it was, maybe the book before it was like a purely act. one and this is like kind of a breather. That's true. You know, I hadn't thought about it as simply unact in the Horace heresy as a whole, right? I was looking at it as purely stand-alone complex. Yeah, that's true.

Like if the book before it is just action from the get-go for 13 hours, just nonstop balls to while action, this actually would make a nice interlude. So Shai says, would you say, Burkidah, if you were new and want to learn about Em's, just read the last church? Yeah, I'd say the last church, it's not only shorter, but it gets you a better idea of the hubris that the emperor believes in.

The, um, his, his somewhat famous quote of the difference is, is I know I'm right. Is such like, uh, is such like a malignant fucking saying. Oh, yeah. It's like everyone else who tried this. kind of thing failed and were awful people and he's like yeah but i'm different and he's like no apparently not i mean you do you do still get that vibe from this book but you you you got to trudge through a lot of stuff to get there it's it's also like completely reducing the concept that the entire el dar

race had a multitude of gods that were i'm assuming roughly emperor strength in in various ways and they still all died yeah they they still got genocided. Like, they had their emperors, and it failed them. But he's a good leader. The Caton, the Necrons had their emperors, and they failed them. Looking like a star god. Let's rephrase that, actually.

They didn't feel them. They killed them. Yeah. They killed their emperors. But it's like, I'm honestly, reading this book makes me want to like chaos more. Yeah, the emperor does not come across in a good lightenness. one. Yeah.

I mean, I don't like chaos. Chaos is, I would, is equally pretty terrible in all sorts of ways. Like, they're not better in any way. But I'm, I'm almost kind of like, chaos is so hateful and spiteful. And I kind of like that vibe. I like that vibe of like, you know what, you know what? I'm wrong. Sure.

I don't really care. Lorgar, go flay that slave. Go, go someone to demon. I don't give a shit. Dad, fuck you. And if I can't save the from your failing's father, let the galaxy burn. It really

pushes the idea that there are no good guys in 40K. They're like even especially the Imperium. This is your sanctimonious prick leader who is willing to sacrifice a thousand psychers a day. There's no good guys.

Are we the baddies? Yes. Whoever said it, yes. In 40K, you are the baddies. You know, which is also just hilarious Because you can Absolutely If you're like, God, I hate all these factions I don't want to be a chaos slave

And I don't want to be a corpse worshipping asshole Then just play the orcs, my guy Yeah, they're just having a good time Looking for a good crumpin Or play the Cron's Or the nids Yeah, nids are just hungry You got plenty of good options still

Yeah, you do You do Anywho, I think that generally wraps it up. We might not make a whole lot of friends with this, but, you know, that's okay. It's not every book can be a smash hit. And just because we don't like it doesn't mean you don't have to not like. You can still like it. Your opinion is still valid if you love this book.

It just didn't do shit for me. It was the problems with the book where it was not the reveals, not the, not the reveals, not the overarching like explanations or anything. It was just the pacing. It was just really bad pacing. I think it better at the end. Yeah, yeah. I would agree.

It's that pacing. Trudging through that first eight hours of just like exposition heavy. Like, oh, yeah, it's tough. It's tough. And it just doesn't do a lot. It's just, yeah. A tall side note, you know, um, uh, the, the, the cost of,

Dodian dreadnought was a contemptor. And so he was like the egg dreadnought. Oh, really? I didn't realize he was an egg. Sagittarius, right? Sagittarius. And so he was like, I'm just imagining him after getting smacked by dracking and falling on his big egg shell to just sound like this.

Well, they said he did seem like he was a turtle that fell over on its back and couldn't really move well. They did. He's like, with the grace of a fat turtle or whatever. Yeah, he's like, help me, guys. I'm falling and I can't get up. Roll me over. Roll me over.

That was pretty funny. Oh, man. All right. Anyway, oh, next book. Next book. Next book. Next book. Next book.

Next book. Do you have any ideas? Do we have any suggestions? What's a pretty popular one that keeps getting suggested of us? Well, I'd like to, I'd like to maybe do a little less Marines. Okay. But then again, like, there's still some. many Marine books.

You want to just figure it out next time? Yeah. My mind, I mean, my, one of my mind was Hell's Reach in the beginning, but Hell's Reach is a Marine book. Oh, that's right. That was a very heavily requested book for a while, wasn't it? Yeah. I'd like, I'd like a Zenos or a Guard one.

See if we can find something neat there. Zenos or Guard, eight hours or less. Yeah. This one was a hefty boy at a, what was it, 12 hours or 11? Somewhere in that ballpark. It was a lot. So eight hours or less, Xenos or Guard. We'll figure it out on the next episode.

Yeah, definitely. Also, I wouldn't blame you for that one, shy. Like, Master of Mankind was one that had been suggested a lot, too. So I don't think that's like... Careful what you wish for. Yeah. You just might get it.