Adeptus Ridiculous - THE TERMINUS DECREE: HISTORY ERASER BUTTON | Warhammer 40k Lore

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

https://www.patreon.com/AdeptusRidiculoushttps://www.adeptusridiculous.com/https://twitter.com/AdRidiculoushttps://orchideight.com/collections/adeptus-ridiculousSupport the show

Welcome everyone to another episode of the Adeptus Ridiculous podcast. My name is D.K., his name is Bricky, and we have a special guest, Karioth. And apparently he's not here for the reason I think he's here. But we'll get in that in just a minute. If you enjoy today's episode of Adeptus Ridiculous and you want to support us, consider going to the Patreon, patreon.com slash Adeptis Ridiculous, where you can get access to the Discord, bloopers if they happen. A $15 tier gets you access to all the HD posters.

you can shake a stick at. So patreon.com slash adeptus ridiculous. And speaking of posters, Bricky, my friend, are you ready for the brand new poster? This is definitely going to be a first one because the other one was so good. I can't wait. Well, I mean, shy.

Let him have it. Let me have it. Feast your eyes on this. Oh, my God. On Zote, girl? Zote girl indeed Zote ab bass girl I would have never guessed this on a million years

Yeah no I'm with you That's genuinely surprised me Of all the things that I thought you could do That was not at the top of the list Yeah Zotes Zotes I have to tell you I was kind of hoping for cursed bulbous red

stomach thing full of blood or whatever But you know I'm okay with being on-brand just ridiculously toned, ripped abs as well. It's a sacrifice I am more than willing to make. Oh, yes, a sacrifice, of course. How, how, how, we should truly honestly all pray. Yeah, exactly. The nobility from this man is palpable. Yeah. You're welcome, everyone. You know, die. I do what must be done, uh, as the Tao say, for the greater good. Mm-hmm. That's not a Tao, though. That's a Zote. Yeah, whatever.

Also, very good is not tau. That's hot thud. Ah, zinology. That's the name, huh? Yeah. Zinology. Extremely specific zonology there. Yeah.

Yep. I don't like you. I don't like you, people. I don't want to be. You don't like that? It's the official let me. I just, I just, you know, I mean, Kiroth is pretty cool, but I don't much like the rest of you people.

You know, you're a, you, you, you smell bad. You, you post this type of shit. Whoa, whoa, whoa, okay, look. Okay, not you D.K. I'm fine. I smell. I smell amazing. I buy premium cologne.

You cannot use that against me. I'm gonna, I'll go put the poster up so you guys can print it on soon. So people can buy it. Hey, speaking of merch store, go check it out at Orchidate.com. You can buy this goddamn poster. I would study those abs. He would study them. You could buy this poster now.

Check it out. It's cool, I guess. It makes me money, so, you know, it's cool to meet. Oh, come on, you love it. It was so lackluster until the end of the sentence, at which point the enthusiasm really came through. It really peaked, didn't it, right at the end there. D.K. has drained the rest of my soul.

There's not much I've got left. I was wondering how much it would take to get. the rest of your soul. I'm glad we found out that Zote abs is all it took. Would you like me to rescue you? Yes, please. Curiauth, you're here for an episode because I'm tired and needed a break.

That's fair. That is fair and valid, yeah. And until I finally get my executive assistant in which I will have more time and effort to do all kinds of things. but until then I am dying. And so, with that being, Sam, what are you here to talk to us about? I need this job, dude. Please don't die.

You can just replace me? That's where the enthusiasm and honesty came in. That was the bit. That was the one right there. What DK just said, that's the truest thing said so far all recording. Okay, this one is a little bit, it's a little bit different because it's not vehicles.

What? The chat for the premiere going wild, because why else would I even show up? Yeah. Well, there's also... Dreadnots? What else you hear for? They can read the title of the video, though.

Oh, I can't tell. Don't spoil the suspense. Don't do that. Okay, my apologies. You're not allowed to read the title until after the video's finished. I don't know how that's physically possible, but it's true.

This one is a little bit tricky because there is not... There's no real condensed kind of intro to give to this. So once again, I've written something which, to be fair, once you know the full background of this, this will make complete sense. But primarily, I really want to hear what D.K. thinks this is. So, once the box has been opened, it cannot be closed again. Only when all hope is lost can this secret be revealed,

a secret so great that it could bring about the destruction of the Imperium, or perhaps, act as its salvation. Oh, so this is like a 40K Pandora's box. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. And, oh no, I feel like I've heard about this at some point. You have not. I haven't. Oh.

Wow, immediate, immediately in there. I don't really want him to have any faith. This feels like it's going to be like one of those doomsday devices that they're keeping, like, what is it, under the golden throne or whatever? and it's like guarded by like specific custodians or whatever it feels like it's something under there. You know what? I kind of,

I feel like we've kind of got to, I think we might have to give it to you. That is very close. It's not bad. It's not bad. That's what it sounds like because something like that, they're not just going to let it hang around.

It's got to be a doomsday thing under there, right? I don't know which specific one because there's all sorts of unknown tears and horrors under there that I don't know about, but, you know. Wow, the shade. It's not bad for DK.'K.'s level, says Shai.

No, no, you don't understand. That is about as much of a compliment as I'm going to get from her. I am very proud. That is glowing praise from Shide. You know what? I'm also proud. Both of your dads are very proud.

Aw. You know what? You really not that far off because this episode is about the terminus decree, which sounds awesome, by the way. I would have never gotten that one. There is, however, a catch, because I'm going to need some serious theories out of you, because the terminus decree is one of, I would suggest,

one of the most important pieces of, like, I guess just background of law for 40K. It's also one that has almost no information about it at all. This is definitely one of those things that they wrote in a codex. one day and thought it was really cool and never elaborated on it because they know if they did elaborate on it, it would kind of break the whole mystique. Yes, they knew full well. I reckon the author wrote it and then everyone went,

oh boy, what, okay, we published that, did we? What are we going to do about that then? And the answer was never address it for as long as we live. So this is something that showed up in two codexes, Codex Grey Knights for Fifth Edition and Codex Gray Nights. 7th edition. And the terminus decree is literally a set of instructions contained on a piece of parchment, sealed in a box, and it's guarded by the grey knights. Except, except, the grey knights as a whole don't necessarily know about it. It is like absolute top level secret from

everyone but the supreme grandmasters of the Grey Knight's chapter which is our stupid asshole guy in the warb yes which is like Caldor Drago

it's so oh it's Calder Drago again it's always him I hate that guy yeah but he's funny now because we saw the memes and now we like him because he's funny

yeah it's true he's been redeemed I still hate that guy so it's seriously the level to which they've played this up for how little information that they've given is incredible. The terminus decree contains the final secret of the gray night. The gay nights, that's not correct.

Yeah, let's go. Let's go. Oh, wait, guys, it's July. Sorry, nope. Oh, that's right. Yeah. It's too late. Our logo has to immediately go back to black and gray.

Damn. Yeah, damn. All right, crap. Continue. We tried. And essentially it is, it's a secret document that is so kind of, so influential, so impactful that it could literally destroy the Imperium or save it, one or the other. So, if we reach a point where times are so dark and humanity is so threatened that a Grand Master of the Grey Knights actually has to, open a just a wooden box with a piece of parchment in it, what is contained in that box

could completely annihilate the Imperium as humanity knows it, or it could save it from, you know, complete destruction. That's how big the terminus decree is. It is universe altering for 40K. And that is literally all of the information we have. episode's over everyone Go home Let's go I'm out of the door So the literally

Only information we have Is there is a wooden box It's got parchment paper in it It's only known about By very select few grey nights And maybe it destroys everything Or maybe it saves everything And that's it

Yeah pretty much Yep nailed it You remember when we talked About the Vash store episode And how he utilized the the Choka engine, which is basically like a wacky time machine thing that Asriel used. And we were like, why have we never talked about us before? It's like, because you can't do that in 40K because it ruins the world.

And so that's why it's like, oh, he used it again to do weird crap and bring back Caliban. Awesome. We're never going to talk about it again because if we did, it would be a problem. Yeah. It's literally world breaking, which is incredible. So why did they bother bringing this thing up at all? If they don't know what they're going to do with it, they don't know why it's there,

we don't know why it's there, why even bother? I love his innocence, Keriath. It's so adorable. It's great. This first showed up in the fifth edition of Codex Grey Knights. To give a little bit of context around that, I believe you'll have to kind of correct me if I'm wrong here, Bricky,

but I'm pretty sure Fifth Edition Grey Knights was the one where they went full Mary Sue. I think Fifth Edition Grey Nights is also the Sisters of Battle We Do Not Talk About moments. Yes, yeah. I thought it was that one. I was pretty sure. In fact, actually, clicking through. Yeah. There was a thing. Does D.K. know about that incident yet? Surely. I think I've told... I think I've told him about it, but you want to give him a refresher to see if it sparks any memory? Refresh my memory, if you will. So, as we know, sisters of battle, essentially incorruptible.

Daughters of the emperor, they are completely pure of heart, mind, and soul, incredible warriors. Is this the one time a sister got corrupted or something? Oh, no, it's way worse than that. Yeah, it's so much worse than that. It's way worse than a sister getting corrupted? Oh yeah. No, this was absolute insanity. A detachment of grey knights finds some sisters of battle. They are under siege from demons, if I remember correctly. And of course, the correct thing to do would be to ally with them, beat back the forces of chaos.

What you wouldn't do as a grey knight is participate in the slaughter of the sisters of battle and then cover your armour in their blood as a ward against demonic forces. I mean... except that's what they did. I will be 100% with you. After the Grey Nights... Wow, that is a picture and a half. That is dark. But honestly, after the Grey Nights episode,

I'm like, you know what? I can kind of believe it. Because, like, the Grey Nights don't leave any witnesses, right? If they see, like, a demon incursion, they're just like, yeah, you know what? There might be some guard in there, but we're just going to kill everything. Doesn't matter.

Screw me. Okay. So if you're referring to like, you believe the Grey Knights would do this, sure. The fact that this was done is like the weirdest thing ever. And it's incredibly strange and gross. Yeah.

It was very, it was very like out of left field. Just like random kind of, oh, this was, this wasn't even a friendly fire incident. This was the willful slaughter of loyal allies that were, but by all accounts, not corruptible in the first place.

And there is not... Let's not forget the maiming of their corpses and using of their blood on their armor. Yes. Wild. Absolutely wild. Especially when you consider that one of the key components of the Grey Knights is their absolute efficiency and training when it comes to dealing with demons.

So this is a chapter where... Demons isn't just like the norm. It's not just what they do. It's the basis of their entire existence as a chapter, I think it's fair to say. They all have psychic powers. They all have weapons that are distinctly anti-demon. And for some reason, instead of using the system of battle to assist them in the fight, because, you know, Grey Knights are by their very nature pretty much incorruptible. Instead, they killed them all and put their blood all over their armor. Like, it's so unnecessary even by 40K standards that the overall reaction was, I'm sorry, what now? You did what? Why? Was there a reason for it? Or was it just like,

they just wrote it and were like, cuckie grey nights and no real reason? Because like my first, My first instinct was like, oh, I guess they were like, oh, everything's demons, so I guess we should kill everything here because everything is compromised. But it sounds like a lot worse than that, actually. Well, the great knights aren't, yeah, they're not stupid. Like the great knights know that the sisters are nearly incorruptible, not as much as they are, but darn close. It's just, I don't know. It reminds me of like really old gatekeeping. 40K where a lot of dudes would just like, I don't know, it feels like weirdly like, um, sadistically

sexual and sexist, yeah, a little bit. Oh, yeah, it feels that way. Oh, I don't like that then. It's kind of unnecessary. Oh, I, I think that's kind of what it was done too. Not a fan of that, then. It's just an unnecessary thing. The Grey Knights do not need to cover their armor in Sisters of Battle Blood to be,

effective against demons. They are already... They are already the most effective anti-demon force that the Imperium has. So on that level, it makes no sense. In terms of like strategy, in terms of like numbers prevailing against an overwhelming foe, it doesn't make any sense. It basically was, here come the super warrior men, here's some normal women in armour, the best use for them is if we murder them all and paint ourselves in them. and that is not a good vibe.

Oh, no. That's just not, that's not great. It's not great. No, I do not vibe with that at all. It's, it's very, it's very weird. It's gross. This is also back when sisters were, were a bit more sexualized as a,

as an army and a lot less like their current iteration where they are horrifyingly cool. Right. So there's a lot of that. It was back in the time of life. So it's kind of a cringe fest is what you're saying. It's just a pretty cringe. It was at the time where, like, the Repentia for the Sisters of Battle,

instead of being... I'm sorry. No, I actually, I genuinely slipped. I'm so... I'm sorry. I was like, it kind of fits. It does, actually. It enhanced the mood.

It was kind of back at the time where, if you looked at, like, the Repentia for the Sisters of Battle, what you had for your line troops were women in power armor. And then the Repentia, who have no armor, were all very slim, very lithe women in kind of drapes that like kind of didn't really cover what they covered like the essential parts if you like but like there's a lot of leg

a lot of shoulder in fact there's there you go it left very little to the imagination yeah what a looking difference these two photos are what a goddamn difference little bit just a tiny bit different The new ones are vastly superior. In like every way. Yeah, I'm fed up with people going,

oh, but they don't look attractive anymore. Shut up, stop it. What are you talking about? They're not supposed to look attractive. They're supposed to look like warriors who train every day of their lives and spend their entire time fighting. They're not going to look like supermodels.

They're going to be scarred, muscular badasses wielding massive chainsaws. What are you talking about? Not to mention the variety of torture devices that they use for self-penance is a part of that. That's the one point of being a repensure, right, is the penitence. Like, you have to, you know, you're trying to work your way back into the good graces of the Imperium, right?

Or good grace. God, I love, I love when I steer a conversation towards sisters of battle. I'm so good at it. I love when we steer a perfectly good great conversation to something that I care about. Yeah, but sisters are amazing, so it's fair. Yeah. Okay, Terminus Decree, sorry. Didn't we already cover it? There's nothing to it.

It's just, hey, look at this potentially world-ending or world-saving document. It's stored away. Only Caldor Drago knows about it because he's a loser. What else is there to talk about with the Terminus Decree? It showed up in like two codices and like, how are we going to episode this? But we now also have the benefit of things like the Horace heresy. like that series of novels and then the The Siege of Terror series as well

which kind of like it kind of expands it a bit but before we get to that stuff I really I genuinely want to know if you had to take a wild stab in the dark just a random guess as to what the terminus decree could be given that it's in a wooden box on a piece of parchment

it's protected by the grey knights the grey knights as a whole don't know about it It's only the leadership who know. What do you reckon could be on that bit of parchment that is so big, like so extreme that it could either destroy or save the imperial? I honestly, like, I don't know what could possibly be on that. Like, some, it'd have to be something, like, related to, like, I don't know.

It's like, well, Biggie is still alive or something or, you know, some way to, like, fully rejuvenate big E is on that piece of paper or something. Like, it has to be something massive. And I don't know. That's the thing that I find amazing about the fact that it was written in the first place, where it's like, here's this potentially universe altering document. Like, that's the only way to put it.

It is literally just a document that's in a box that is on Titan. And it's like, but what? What would you even write down? It's not even like a data stack thing, like an admec device. It's literally a piece of parchment that has to have some sort of secret on it, something that is like massively damaging, but also potentially could save the Imperium from like a full-on chaos invasion that has landed on terror.

It's just such a massive scale. scope. Is there any chance that it's like the little piece of parchment has like, because Biggie initially made like a deal with chaos, right? Is there any chance that it's like, oh, here's how the primarks were actually born and Biggie was working with chaos and who. But I don't know how that's like, how that would save and or destroy the Imperium. I personally assumed that the decree was, because Terminus, I mean, Terminus does not necessarily mean terminate, but that kind of is where my mind goes.

I thought it was turning off the golden throne. Oh, so it's like a... Yeah. How would that save the Imperium? Maybe, well, it's save or destroy. What was the old, like in Halo? When you found out what the halos did, it was to starve the flood of their food source,

so it killed all life. And the idea was, It wasn't the idea like you store some life to repopulate on the halo rings. And then once everything is dead, you kind of come back, so to speak. Like, I assume that that might be part of the concept. But as far as I'm concerned, once that golden throne turns off, the humanity just dies. Yeah, I was going to say, there's no saving humanity once the golden throne is off because they're just screwed. There's just no chance, right?

because they just get full on flooded by chaos. Yeah, with no, like, guiding light for ships, there's just, no reinforcements can get anywhere. Warp travel becomes borderline impossible. It just becomes an absolute nightmare to get. Even, like, just one system over would be, would take so long that any invasion, you know, the reinforcements would, like, arrive way after the invasion is actually finished. Shai has said that my guess is it's emperors, if I can't have it, nobody can. I think it will shut down the golden throne and also cause other various self-destruct protocols all over the Imperium,

causing the Imperium to be destroyed, also destroying the chaos in the process, because chaos can't survive without humanity. That's true. And stuff that we learned from recent books supports it. Yeah, without very easily corruptible humanity, chaos is pretty much going to die out. they could probably survive a little bit off like, I don't know, the Eldar and the orcs. They probably get nothing out of the necrons, maybe a little bit from the nids, but probably not as much as they get from humanity.

So they would be significantly weakened or completely destroyed if humanity went out the window. So that's not a terrible guess, actually. And it has to be instructions as well. Like, it's really strangely clear in, you know, considering, how totally not clear it is, where it's an artifact, but it's just parchment in a wooden box. So it's either just instructions or potentially, I was going to say a spell, but you know what I mean? Like a ritual, a warp-based ritual that could, which actually, thinking about it, if it was a warp-based ritual, that would be the best chapter to give it to. Because the grey knights are super hardened against that stuff.

And it could be something that, I don't know, maybe does it cut off the, the entirety of humanity, both chaos and Imperium, from the warp, which means no psychos, means no astropaths, but also means that chaos no longer has access to humans as a whole. But then again, I say that, as soon as I've said it, if that was an option, wouldn't you already do that? Like at this point, would you not already do that and just deal with super slow travel? It might be every world for, itself, but you don't have that lingering threat of chaos anymore because there's nothing for chaos to feed off, or like no way for chaos to just spread out, which is humanity is great

for that. So do we know who specifically wrote the terminus decree, or is that something that was just never explained, and it's just, it's just an old piece of parchment in a box? And nobody knows who wrote it. Was, did Big E write it? Uh, did a Grey Knight write it? Who wrote this? The, the fact that it's, it's a piece of parchment.

in a little wooden box makes you assume that it's very old. But at the same time, that also doesn't mean anything because the Imperator is a backwards world. You know, even the most powerful high loads of terror are still having scribes spill out. I think giant rolls of parchment when to record their meetings and stuff. So it's really difficult to be fully understand it. But I'm assuming that maybe the writers wanted it to assume it as being very old. or going with like that because grey knights are very

old school knightly you know maybe they kind of want that vibe I mean they have books on their armor for God's sake so something that I've I may have held this back a little bit just because I wanted to see if we'd get to how old is it and who wrote it it is locked away

in the chamber that is said to hold the tomb of Malkador the Sigelite Oh So that gives like A tomb? I thought he's trying to dust Apparently he has a tomb He's a thousandth? He's

He He uh he he he he's I mean I say buried there It might just be that they you know It might be like a memorial Like Does pan and brush into a jar And then you know

Sent him over there Crushed him into a jar Yeah Um Do you want to read what shy said or do you want me to? Sure why not I know Kuriath will probably mention stuff From the End and the Dead

Volume 1. But here's another thing about Emperor and Death. In one of the recent books, Cypher, one of the fallen, breaks into prison on Terra and, sorry, breaks from prison on Terra, and gets to Eternity Gate, and he and his mates kill all the guards, and he goes inside to kill the Emperor. One of the custodians gets a telepathic message from the Emperor and asks Cypher to stop. Cyfer says they weighed 10,000 years to kill the Emperor, what Ems can possibly say to him, what can he possibly say to stop him? Costodes says, not yet. Seifer thinks for a bit, nods and leaves. Insane.

Oh. Absolutely. Okay. All you gotta say is not yet. Okay. Seifer is a bit of a wacky guy. You really can't tell what side he's on. You generally think he's chaos and you run him as chaos in game,

but he's kind of got this weirdo, like, fallen. He's one of the fallen. And then the lion's back and the fallen is like putting the Riz on for his Risen dudes. the redeemed. And it's like, uh, okay. So, also, I'm also, yeah, he also saved

Gilliamen and also, Cypher's kind of a baller, but I don't think. Well, Cypher should be fairly on the Imperium side now that the lion's back, right? And he's one of the fallen. Shouldn't he? Eh. Uh, apparently

not. Okay. Okay. So he's still kind of just, he's just kind of a wild card. You don't really know what he's doing, where he's going who he's with, he's just kind of doing his own thing. A little shocked that he even got that far, though. A custodian, like, Cypher is kind of a baller, but a custodian would body him.

Oh, yeah, 100%. Like, I mean, given that the custodians have, like, games where one of them will infiltrate the Palace of Terror and try and get as close as they can to the Emperor. And, like, they are, they're better than Space Marines. Like, there's no other way to put it. They're just better. They're way better in every way. So you'd think that Seifah would get collared a little bit before he gets to the Emperor.

But then again, it could just be one of those like the Emperor knows everything. He can see the future. He knows what his fate is, like what's preordained and stuff. And so it wasn't his time to go. And Seifer might be... Seifer's such a weird one because really it just feels like he does what he wants. but at the same time it's 40K No one does whatever they want

That's not how the universe works Yeah there's always someone pulling the strings Right? Yeah, there's always someone pulling the strings And for ages I was like Well, chaos is just messing with him But at this point I'm firmly in the camp Of the emperor is messing with Cypher

Also, he's the one pulling the strings Let's also not forget that a gigantic tyrant It kicked the head off a custodian so hard It hit the other wall and then he just fell over Oh yeah, that's true Yeah, that's fair I'm so excited for the Norn emissary model. I'm, I don't know what is.

I'm so excited. Oh, man. Those are going to be wild minis. So. I was just happy to get a scream of killer. Anything beyond that is just gone for me. I mean that, I mean that new,

that new death leper is like, whoa. Yeah, it's, I wasn't sure. Now it's, it's a favorite. I love it. I love the cape.

He's got, like, the drip is unreal on that model. Yeah. I do wonder, well, because a pretty common question that goes along with this is you roll back to the Eldar. Because when you go to, it always starts with those stupid elves. When you go back to like, you haven't changed. I, you know, I've been playing a lot of disco elysium and I had to listen.

Oh, here we go. I really want, shy, back me up on this one. Our long episode. Here we go, can I? Bricky's talking about disco elysium. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, shy, back me up on this one.

What if we got Measurehead to talk about type A and type B race theory, but in Warhammer? I'm just saying those Eldar, there's some type B. They are type B. Anywho. That may as well be another language to me.

I know. Warhammer is another language to everyone who's normal. That's fair. That's also true. Continuing, though, the whole thing with the, Yanari is the idea of reincarnation through death.

That's their whole schick with the Yinkarn and stuff. And it's how they revived Giliman, Gillyman, Robugi. And getting Robugi back up by killing him and then bringing his soul back, so to speak, is kind of their attempt to not let Sleenech eat all their souls. Yeah, yeah. And they did that with Gileman. You know, they killed him and he came back. And so I do wonder if they,

the not yet could be at all a sort of thing to that. Like it's kind of like the same thing with the Yanari where they think they could maybe revive Big E? I mean, having Big E. Having Big E is an ally for the Eldar would be pretty paramount. And while the Eldar are some type B pieces of shit, they are certainly, certainly not dumb. I mean, Biggie reviving could live. literally both destroy and save the Imperium.

Because if he came back, he would have to literally like scorched Earth the Imperium from what it is right now and build it back up to what he thought it should be because they are not doing what he wants at all. So, I mean, that would kind of fit with the whole saving and destroying thing. Something that's really interesting with the whole, like, the emperor coming back is

there's this kind of assumption that I see fairly often in kind of like theory discussions about what if the emperor was revived if he left the golden throne would the Astronomicon still be as bright as it was or would it fade? Like the throne is an amplification device

it was built for that like in the Horace heresy it specifically talks about the idea of Magnus being on the throne which allows this beacon of light to continue which also means the emperor can go and do other stuff.

Yeah, whatever. If there's no one on that throne, does the light dim, which makes navigation borderline impossible? The emperor might be able to go wherever he wants and do whatever he likes, but he's still only really kind of,

physically at least, one person. So would it change that much? Like, he might be able to direct his will a bit better because he's not, you know, a half-dead corpse on the throne. He's not a husk of a man. but he can't really just get up and wander around, I don't think. Maybe that's like the caveat of the terminus decrees.

You've got to find a psycher that can actually take his place, which good luck. So side question, during the Great Crusade, the Golden Throne was not built yet, at least not until the ending area of it. How were they doing interstellar travel? Was the emperor just constantly throwing out like North Star? for his primarks? You know what? That's something that, as you were talking, I just went, did they ever address that?

Like, I don't fully know whether that, like, beacon was active. I mean, it must have been active in some sense, because otherwise how do they navigate? Then again, they've also, like, pushed out from Earth and just gone, well, sorry, they've pushed out from terror. You can't, don't say Earth. It's not called to Earth. If you push out from terror in every direction,

Welcome to Earth. Do you need navigation necessarily if you're just going out, just constantly pushing out and pushing the frontier and finding literally every alien race and absolutely destroying them? Okay, so the Astronomicon was originally constructed an M30 in preparation for the Great Crusade.

But in that case, it wasn't using Big E, right? Yeah, how is it operating without him? Why does he need to be amplified? it if it was already being perfectly fine. Like his, his entire prime marks got scattered across the galaxy. It wasn't like they were only stuck in like segmentum solar. So it,

this is one of those things that if we're talking, if we're being all meta, they did not account for in the writing. But like genuinely, I don't know. Okay. So, Biggie was powering it remotely?

Powering it dem. Powering it remotely. Well, then why even bother with the golden throne at all? Well, I'm assuming that's so that he could have Magnus take over from him, because Magnus was the strongest son psychically. So then Biggie wouldn't have to waste his power on it. Yeah. Oh, my God. So basically, Big E was gallivanting around the universe, the galaxy even, at like, I'm assuming like not full strength.

Yeah, he was going to power it directly the whole time. So that was an... All the Biggie stuff we saw when he was moving around, he was nerfing himself? That was... Oh, he was alive. That was nerfed Biggie? He was doing... He was basically doing Rock Lee with the weight training things on.

Even I guess that... No, no, no. There's not a Rockley. That's... Listen, man, that's... That's Dragon Ball. Nauru stole that from Dragon. It's the only anime reference I know.

Yeah, well, yeah, but... But Garo was like a cool character, so shut up. Garra was cool. Nah, was he, though? I don't know. He was edgy and I was 14 when I watched this. Oh, boy. We're talking about anime now. That's, that's fair. All right, let's get out just quick. We were in Briggies wheelhouse before with Discolyzeum. We're rolling into my house now.

Let's go. Roll the wheel down the hill. Roll it into a ditch. Into a gutter, yeah. Oh, God. So, yeah, to be fair, also a life support device. And it does take like a thousand psychers, 10,000 psychers. One of the other thousand. A thousand. Yeah. A thousand. For some reason, I felt, this is one of those things where I must be misremembering but I'm sure there was a point where it's like 10,000 but I think I've just inflated it I think I've just gone way off track and be like it's even worse than it already was and it's already bad

because a thousand people a day I am positive as a thousand because they do the thousand people in the master of mankind book yeah which was pretty horrifying yeah but also like

Biggie's goddamn strength It fluctuates so heavily Because, you know, sometimes he looks like he could just Just take a planet and like eat it With the power that he has And then he pretty almost loses a fight to Draknean in the webway Yeah He actually did get whooped by Drakne on a little bit, didn't he?

Yeah, and he had to shove it in He had to shove it into one of his custodians And tell him to get out of here Come to run That's what it is it's what syndrome Comic book syndrome the power level is exactly what you need

at the time of the scene and everything else is disregarded anime is the same way like showing anime is the exact same way yeah that's very true I have to admit there are other things right that I've kind of

as we were looking into this that there's a couple of different theories so I'm doing this to stop you for a second. This is my stop pipe. Shai wants us to read this real quick. Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to bring that up. Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the things I'm going to bring up. So there's two different things. One of them is what Shai mentioned, which I'll bring up in a second. But the other one is basically a fallback, a kind of failsafe, which is the talisman of seven hammers. So this is something that the terminus decree could have referenced

if the end and the death didn't give a fairly heavy hint towards stuff. So the Talisman of Seven Hammers is something that Vulcan created. Spoiler alert. Makes sense. Just turn off now. If you haven't read about the Battle of Nocturn, then skip ahead. I don't know. So he created this device.

He does not remember creating it. What? He was going through a bit of a perpetual thing, the whole rebirth thing having died. God, I hate perpetual stuff. And, yeah, it's a whole thing. And the talisman of seven hammers is something that you could install into the golden throne. And if you activate it, it would create a massive, like, inferno that would consume all of terror. Oh.

And... That's a very vulcan thing to do. sure. Oh yeah. Jesus. Just wipe the planet clean. So if Horace were to take the throne or get close enough or like it seemed like terror was going to fall,

Vulcan had the capacity to just torch the planet and everything on it. So that's like just a complete last resort. Everything has failed. Just burn it. Yep. Just burn the whole thing to the ground. Right. So that's

that's something that for a little while when I was looking this stuff up but it was like quite a few people were like oh maybe the talisman, the seven hammers, maybe that's the whole thing. Oh yeah, also perma kills demons. You have some true death. Whoa, okay.

That's a big deal. Okay. This is the most Vulcan thing I've ever heard. Yeah. It really is. Yeah, it is. It's most salamanders thing I've ever heard too.

I guess it's one and the same. It's kind of the same, yeah. Yeah, same thing, yeah. But there is something else that was just brought up in The End and the Death, which, by the way, I don't know if you've tried to cram read The End and the Death in like two days. It is possible, but you need to do it at least twice. So, Siege of Terror book, where it's a whole thing. So I'm going to try and condense this down.

So Malkador has to take the end. emperor's place on the golden throne. The emperor has vacated the throne to deal with Horus. So, Malcador has to take his place. And Malcador is, you know, like the second most powerful second or third, depending on what you count Magnus as. I guess it's up for debate. He has to take the throne. And he sends off vast amounts of information via like psychic link.

he just dumps info on his kind of chosen, the people that he trusts and the people that he believes will, you know, do the right thing. Okay. One of these is a guy called Hassan, and he is charged with kind of overseeing different plans and different fail saves by Malkador, and one of the plans is called the Terminus Plan. Oh. Really? Yeah.

Okay. So this guy... I'm assuming there's no detail on what the terminus plan is. Oh no. There's a bit of detail. There's quite a bit of detail. So there is this terminus order that this guy gets, Hassan. And it relates to a guy called Basilio Foe,

who is a geneticist, a really, really gifted one. Hates like post-humans. not a fan, absolutely despises it. Considers the primarks to be like abominations and disgusting creations of the emperor. Extremely based. He hates him. Absolutely hates him. Doesn't sound like a friend to the Imperium.

Does not sound like a buddy? Oh, no, no, no, no. He's definitely not. He's definitely not because he is someone who fought against the emperor during the unification of terror, basically. ancient enemy of the emperor. Great, great, cool. Sounds like a swell guy.

All right. Oh, he's, you know, tip top. Tip top. Tip top. I've never used that phrase before in my life. I don't know why I said it now. So, Basilio is being like a really talented creative geneticist has the ability to make a weapon, like a viral weapon, that can destroy

Astati's gene template. Oh, that's pretty nasty. That's a big deal. That is a huge deal. He can do this? Yeah. So, why have they not killed him yet? Well, if he's already created the template for this thing, it could create something that would absolutely destroy every single Astati's,

both loyalist and K. in the galaxy. Aha. The plot thickens. And there's a custodian talking to Hassan, who, he kind of says

to the custodian, look, I know about this anti-Eastati's weapon. I know about this kind of viral weapon. And it's deemed a terminus sanction,

something that the emperor wants to be kept held in reserve only for use in the most dire circumstances. Right. And that the deployment of it is only to be done by the Sigelite's chosen warriors and only if the unthinkable happens.

So if we take the information from the end and the death, it's entirely plausible and possible that the terminus decree is a, like, an approved weapon from Malkador and the Emperor that would simultaneously wipe out all loyalist and chaos Astardis in one go. I mean, because that would rip the foundation, yeah, it would save and destroy the Imperium.

Yeah. But it would also remove every traitor Astardis from the ones who turn during the Horus heresy to the ones who turn after every single founding because apparently the Imperium can't cope with, you know, dealing with that. Like, it would just be the end of superhuman warriors on either side, apart from, I'm assuming the custodies, because they're not a starzies. So I'm assuming they'd be fine. But that would rip out the foundation of basically the entire 40K universe.

No space marines, loyalist or traitor. All of them dead. Well, considering that the sisters of battle and Imperial Guard are cooler anyway, I don't see this is too much of a loss. I mean, it's fine. It's fine. They can do it.

They can, but if you got rid of all of the Imperium Space Marines, then wouldn't the Eldar, Tyrannids, orcs, Tao all have quite the upper hand on the Imperium without their starties? I mean, yes. Like, the Imperium would be really screwed. Just because you're right doesn't mean I'm not going to meme about it. Okay.

Just because you're right doesn't mean you have to say it. Yeah. It's, I mean, as plans go, it's not without flaws because, you know, there's unaugmented humans. And I keep complaining about the fact that there's no traitor guard faction in 40K, really. I know renegades and heretics are in legends, but shut up, they don't count. Like, there's still a lot of human element. No, no, it's not like a tabletop faction, really. Huh.

Yeah, right, right? There are, you can run traitor guards min in your Chaos Space Marine list, but Trader Guard itself is not a army. Because in a sense, you can really just build them as Chaos Guard, and then just play them as, like, regular Guard for the most part. It's, like, not different enough. That being said, they probably should be different enough. Like, gene stealers can take guardsmen in their stuff,

but only like 500 points out of 2000. Huh. I just kind of assume that there were certainly traitor guard because, you know, they're just human soldiers. Of course they're going to get corrupted. Right. This is my argument, and it has been for, like, decades now, but we won't get into that because it'll just go on for hours.

Yeah, yeah, sure. But, yeah, it's, it's, I feel like it's one of those things where it is a decent plan if you have a part, two. But then, as Shai has said, it can't be all that it is, because killing all the space marines and chaos won't destroy humanity or chaos. It has to be part of a plan. Because, like, on the one hand, yeah, you get rid of all the superhuman murder machines. Great. Awesome. But plenty of humans turn chaos. And the Imperium has lives to spare by the billions. Literally. So it's not like,

like an end to war, it's basically just taking the best weapon that either side has off the table. Yeah. And there is the fact of things like demons existing. So chaos has got a massive amount of demonic willpower and forces behind it. Like you'd still have bloodthasters and stuff, right? Yeah, you'd still have greater demons. And boy, you'd be screwed if you had nothing to fight those bloodthasters with. With no Marnius Calgar, how are you going to deal with them?

Right? How are you going to deal with it? How are you going to cut their heads off very quickly? Yeah. The grey knights would also be included in that. They'd be wiped out as well, unless it was something so all-consuming that it dealt with all manner of like just warp-based stuff. But it doesn't actually suggest that. I would wonder if they would be a little different because of their, um,

empery gene seed. Does it come from the primarks? Would they be exempt kind of thing? Maybe. Maybe the Green Knights wouldn't be affected by it? Yeah, because the Green Knights technically don't have a primark, right? They're just from pseudo-emper-ish gene seed. So they might not be affected by it. That would be, I mean, honestly, that would be really cool if that was the case,

because you'd be left with demons and the force that is dedicated to fighting demons. that would kind of even out to an extent. Yeah. I say even out because there is that, I forget which Siege of Terror book it is, but there is a Siege of Terror book where the Grey Knights are fighting demons alongside Sisters of Silence,

and they can't use their psychic powers. And I think it's a custodian who is fighting alongside. And the custodian is like, oh well, without psychic powers, they're just better space marines. Holy shit. Like they're just better than normal space marines

and that's without the thing that makes them really good against demons. That's amazing. And I can't remember which book it is, but like, I don't know, maybe that would work like that. The thing is, no one would be able to breach terror

from that point on. If that's like ground zero and the whole, like, the core of the Imperium is that one planet, demons wouldn't be able to get close because they can't penetrate that far in without something assisting them. Chaos space marines don't exist

so they wouldn't be able to do a spearhead. Loyalist space marines also don't exist, but custodians are still there. Custodies aren't Astartis. They would still be present, I think. They're made in a tube. You still have custodians and grey knights, which I guess.

Also, Shai says, also, D.K., whatever the horrible plan is, just in case you don't hate Drago enough. Oh, no. Drago argues after Fall of Katie that it's time to use the Terminus Decree and press the History Eraser button. Jesus. Oh, my God. All right, Drago. Okay.

Chill out. Chill out, dude. Like, it's a bad situation. Yes, but I don't think it's, let's destroy everything bad. Oh, my God. If I had a situation. If I had a. a nickel for every time that the Imperium

was in a terminus decree situation. I would have all the money that ever existed because it exists in that state. It's permanently on the verge of collapse. Every world they successfully cleanse of chaos,

two more fall. That's the basis of the universe. Drago cut it out. Right? Chill out, dude. Yeah, but he's the funny tangerine man. Drago is getting to Ultramarine levels of I hate you I'm telling you it's getting real close buddy

You gotta cut this cut that shit out Drago acting like some of the Andros piece of shit Oh god Don't bring his name up here The immediate disgust I'm so happy Keep it keep that Ultramarines name Out your mouth

Whack He's not a real ultramarine he's a pretender He's small Ultramarines aren't real they can't hurt you. I don't care how funny the man is when he's closing into me with a knife while talking about his beard made of tiny men.

TTS reference. I know that's a TTS reference. Let's go. Fair enough. Okay. It took me a second to place that. I was like, is everything okay? Are we all right here?

I too have a beautiful. Beard. And me. To be honest, in a way, I'm... It's kind of cool that there's a direct reference in the end and the death, or at least what feels like a direct reference. They could always say, lull, that's not true. It's the same thing with the Easter egg for the Blood Ravens

that was put in the Horace Heresy books, where a cycle directly says, A Raven made of blood, and then the Black Library director went, Nah. Blood Ravens, nothing to do with Thousand Sons. Ignore that.

Which, by the way, bullshit. Like, I kind of like there are reverends, but at the same time, it being a constant mystery where it's something

so universe-altering, so, like, pivotal to the existence of 40K with no further expansion, I can't, it's one of those things where it's like, oh,

Can you expand a little bit? And then he go, no, not like that. Not like that. I kind of preferred it when we just had no clue what you were talking about. It's so much more, you can come up with your own insane theories that are way beyond that. Like, for me, when I first read about the Terminus Decree, admittedly, it wasn't until 7th edition Codex, where I read it and just went, this is mad.

What could this even be? Is this like a warp bomb? Like do the grey nights all cluster together and then focus all the psychic energy and then explode the eye of terror? Is that what it is? What else could it be? Could it, like, do they just go around slaughtering?

Is it like a step by step, planet by planet, annihilation of everything until chaos starves to death? Is that it? And now, with this, the end and the death, there is that kind of, I guess it's like a kind of viral thing that gets rid of space marines, but even then that doesn't fix the conflict. Yeah, like we said, that could maybe only be one part of it is getting rid of space means,

but there's got to be more steps. Like step one, get rid of all space marines, step two, blow everything up or something. Like, yeah, that has to be just one part of the plan, right? There has to be a step two, because by itself, it doesn't fix, anything. Yeah, it doesn't fix the conflict between chaos and the Imperium. It would have to be a multi-step process like, does everyone go into the webway?

Do they eliminate all Astartis, just kill all of them, and then find a way to do what the emperor first envisioned, which was essentially unlock psychic potential and inhabit the webway away

from chaos? Man, my homey Ark and Land was not having a good in that webway. I don't know if he was, he was not feeling it. He was, he was, he was,

he was on that perk 30 and he was having a bad time. So how many, him and Johnny Lazz were having a, an absolute nightmare. You know, memes aside,

that the talking about him in Master Mankind, I like the fact that he hated the fact it was called the the land raiders. Like, what that's so stupid. Yeah.

I do like that. There's a little meta, a little additional meta bit. I love that. It was like the writer basically going, look, we all know this is silly, right? We get it. We understand. And the guy that is based off, he doesn't like it either, okay? Don't complain to me. It's not my fault. It's what they wanted. And he hates it too. So it's all good. So aside from the person that wrote the terminus decree, we don't know who wrote it, how many people actually know what the terminus decree is? Like, they just know that it exists. but like, does anybody know what the damn thing actually says? No. Nobody.

It's never been opened. You know, I feel like from purely, I don't know if it's logistics, but I feel like they should open it and at least read it and at least know what the plan is so that they can be like, hey, I know what the plan is. I know when to actually use this thing. Someone does know, though. Wouldn't that make sense? Yeah, Biggie and whoever wrote it. No, no. A man with tiny men in his beard also knows. Oh, God, of course. The Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights is also pervy to the, you know.

Yeah, but he's an idiot. I can't trust him. He's a dork. He's a dork, yes. He's a big ugly dork. Oh, she's the word, a dork, that. A dork, yes. An idiot?

No. He's probably not an idiot. But he's a big stupid dork and I hate him. That's fine. Being a dork. This is a flawless. This is a flawless. This is a flawless end,

and I will deliver it as it's been written. And if I didn't point out that it was written, then you'd think it was great. But I've drawn attention to it now, so it's going to make it worse than it otherwise would have been. We don't know, and we probably will never know, until Games Workshop pulls 40KN times,

which will happen, or will it? End the episode. Don't actually end the episode. Yeah, we have more to talk about. Sorry. Yeah, no, we could go on for hours. I don't know what to talk about. I don't know.

Yeah, there's loads. I don't think we should have. Okay, now end it. I'm done. I've got it. My first few from Shao. I'm going to drop the F bombs all through this ending just because I think sound.