Adeptus Ridiculous - Warhammer 40k Situation is Crazy | Interview with Cr1tikal and Luetin

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

https://www.patreon.com/AdeptusRidiculoushttps://www.adeptusridiculous.com/https://twitter.com/AdRidiculoushttps://orchideight.com/collections/adeptus-ridiculousBricky, Dk, Shy, Luetin and Charlie MoistCr1tikal join together for a discussion where they talk about Warhammer 40k, it's growing popularity, Space Marine 2, Amazon Warhammer shows, Charlie's 40k armies and pile of shame, Warhammer lore and a many other things.Charlie: @penguinz0Luetin: @Luetin09Support the show

Welcome everyone to another episode of the Adeptus Ridiculous podcast. My name is D.K. Diamantis, I am not going to be wasting too much time on the intro today because it's a super special episode. So if you enjoy the podcast and you want to support the podcast, head over to Patreon.com slash adeptus ridiculous, where you can get access to the Discord, bloopers if they happen. $15 tier gets you access to all of our posters in crispy digital HD format. Patreon.com slash Adeptus Ridiculous. You can follow for free. It's great. Patreon.com slash adeptus ridiculous. Bricky. Hey, what's up? If you would like to support in other ways, and you are particularly interested in getting

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DK, normally we have one person in the walls today. We do not. No, we have. I think we're the ones in the walls today. We might, we kind of, we're kind of sitting back a little bit. We have two people in the walls. First things first, before someone who's been with us in the past and known for a while, Luton, how you doing?

Yeah, how are you doing? I'm right. Yeah, good, good. Good to be here. Good to be back. You live in everything good over on your side of the pond? Yeah, I mean, it's Christmas time, so you can't go wrong really. Except for how long it goes on for. But yeah, loads of new 40K stuff coming out at the moment and tons to talk about. So, yeah, it's exciting times. Yeah, and in addition to another, we have another new guest for the podcast today, Mr. Moist Critical. How you doing, man? Hey, I'm doing really well I'm gonna be kind of like the big idiot here

That's you know Kind of just like the new guy to the block I'm very excited to be here Hell yeah Well you have a little bit I was gonna say I have a little bit of competition With D-Cats I was gonna say I'm the big idiot don't worry

Like I got you You're gonna look brilliant You're fine you're good I won't let you take that from me I've got to be like the lowest IQ guest It's gonna be my little claim here Oh the good thing about Warhammers There's never a stupid question

because there's always so much going on with it. But thanks so much for joining us. We got a big-ass group today. And I guess for the viewers more specifically, I think it's just kind of good to get a bit of an idea of what we're talking about. There's not really like a topic today. It's just kind of, you know, like Luton's his grandfather, big daddy lore man. I'm very much new kid on the block.

D.K. is buddy learning about it. And you recently have been getting into a lot more kind of into the 40K. like super into the world, so to speak, but like you've been playing a lot of the games, getting more into the lore, mostly right, Charlie? Yeah, so I'd say the rabbit hole has been

unbelievable. So I started with the first Space Marine game because when Space Marine 2 was about to come out, I wanted to replay the first one. And I loved the first one. It was great. And the second one came out

and it was unbelievable. And then I took a big plunge into the lore. So big shout out to Luton anytime my car comes on. his videos start playing. I don't drive without listening to Luton lore videos. And I got, it's becoming a problem. Like, it's, I buy in minis out the wazoo.

I've got fucking crazy amounts of pre-painted armies that I've been assembling. It's so good. Wait, hold the phone. We're already in, we're already in the miniature side of things. Oh, man, it's just. If I, if I, if I just had, no, not just miniatures. I mean, like, models. So I bought, like, um, like some of those resin models that a couple companies put

out like on third party just because I think they're really nice display pieces. I've got some joy toys for the prime marks. It's, oh, man. Wow. So, so you already, deep. You already have a pile of shame. Yeah. Oh, wow. A pile isn't even the right word. A room of shame. Yeah. It's like a little common area in my upstairs is nothing but various Warhammer armies I've been finding on eBay. And then some of the models people have been making like these resin ones on Etsy and eBay. It's, just, it's a lot. Let's go, hell yeah. Was there, I mean, Luton specifically, like, I very much had my Luton phase as well.

It was always really surreal. Oh, yeah, dude. You're kidding me? No, I meant like, you've given up now. You're just, don't return anymore. He's out of that phase, man. Finish that now. I moved on to better things.

Out of the way, old man, it's the new Padawans. No. No, no, it's still super handy. But, you know, way back when, because I started when I was like, I played Space Marine 1 in Dawn of War when I was like 12. But, you know, same kind of deal, right? Like when I was 18, 19, I got a little bit more into it. And then, yeah, the Luton, the Trek was a big part of it.

I'm actually a little curious. Which of his videos did you start with, Charlie? I went in order. So I started with like the Necron, the Necrontier, the War in Heaven. I went from that video and just followed chronologically through the playlist. So right now I just finished. I think it was the Legion of the Damned is the one I just finished, so I can't know which one comes after. Good days.

See, this was going to be one of my questions, which was sort of how much do you know about 40K so far? I was really curious just to know, because you've sort of alluded and mentioned about constantly, like, checking into the law. And obviously, from the Space Marine Games, you pick up a lot. But yeah, sort of, do you feel you have a pretty solid grasp of the general picture of 40K law at this point? I think as far as the basics go and the factions, I think I have a decent handle on like the very cookie cutter nutshell, like synopsis of them. It's more so like now I'm getting to the point where I'm diving more into like

specific battles and stuff like that, like the Domenculaba, like Uriel and all. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's one of the most exciting, I think that's one of the most exciting points to be at because it's very overwhelming for people coming into it.

And once you can get a good grip on the basic sort of foundation, then you get into the really, really interesting stuff. Yeah, the emperor, his intentions, is he good or bad, all that kind of stuff. Oh, I mean, Luton, you and I, on your recommendation, listen to First Lord of the Imperium. Yeah. Like, I feel like a lot of Warhammer lore is a bit of a bell curve. It's really hard to start off with. And then when you get that hook, there's like a million things into it. and so many things to consider. And then you get into the really weeds of it all.

And that's when it can get sometimes a bit overwhelming again. Yeah. I mean, just as a short, you know, you can go off on a huge tangent, but just the short one is kind of nobody really knows still what the emperor is. Nobody really knows what he is. Yes, there's these dreams where he seems to have been around in humanity since the beginning. But you don't know. is he just some weird creation of Malkador?

Is he a relic from the dark age of technology? And he's sort of conjured up memories for people. You don't know. Nobody really knows what he is. And that's kind of interesting. It's like, have we been trapped like a kind of horrible wasp spawn where they kind of lay eggs? And you know what I mean?

Like is he parasiting off humanity. It's just, it's super interesting to speculate and think about that. Oh, I know what he is. He's a corpse on a throne. He's a big, dirty, filthy corpse on a throne. And damn, should he better stay there? Mm-hmm.

Actually, speaking of, because I'm very chaos-coded right now, at least in my current world of the Warhammer. What armad did you start with, Charlie? So I haven't actually played any of the tabletop yet. That's a whole other plunge that I'm excited for, but also a little scared by. Like that seems frighteningly complex. But I will be playing Necron for that because they're my favorite. Yeah, Black, baby. Let's go.

Sorry. That's pretty much all I've played for 10th edition so far, really. like they're fun like a really good spot in the game right yeah it's its own like until until today well part part of it other parts got buffed uh they're they've been all over the place in 10th but um but no necrons are really fun and their new model stuff has gone like i mean when i saw the silent king that came out i was like oh he's so cool yeah um he was so much fun okay do you read any of the books then did you read like infinite divine or no so i had to haven't read any of the books. I read them by proxy through Luton reading them. That's kind of how I consume the books.

You have to, that's the wrong answer. You have to say, and I also got really into the audio books as well, because otherwise. Oh, that's right. I've been checking it out through Audible. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Ah. I've actually, I came up with a load of recommends. Yeah, I came up with a load of good recommends as well for today, but we'll probably touch on it later. But that's the other thing. It's very overwhelming for people. coming in. They might sort of play space marine as, you know, and they think, okay, great, I would love this verse. I want to know more. And then people start saying to you, oh, check out the Horace heresy series. They start to look into it and think, oh, yeah, this is great. Check out the first book. And then learn that there's like 50 more books after that. Yeah, it's daunting. The amount of books blew me away. Like, I knew the world had existed for like three decades, but it didn't dawn on me just how many books and how much lore that would be. Like, there's more lower in 40K than

there is for like actual humanity. It's crazy. It's, it's genuinely true. And it's, I mean, honestly, there's also never really anything to feel bad about. Some people I meet and they're like, oh, I haven't got into the books yet. And like, me and D.K. just finished the first Horace heresy book like two months ago. Uh, what? Oh, yeah, we, we finally, we never got into Horace rising. Based on your recommendations, Luton, you always said, the best place to start is anywhere you want. That's true. That is true. You can start anywhere with it. But, um, the whole, the, The Heresy Book Series or audio book series is it's really, really good. But the key thing, if you start with it, Charlie, is the first four books are solid.

After that, you can pick and choose a little because there are somewhere they kind of get really into like one specific character. And it's like, you know, some people just want to go through it back to back because they want to be really comprehensive. But yeah, it can be variable, as you might imagine from a book series of like 50 novels, you know. Yeah. Luton, if anything has. happens to, uh, to Torgadden,

I'm going to kill everyone in this room, but then myself. Like, yep, he's, him and Garvia Loken are the coolest goddamn character as I have ever, I've read in a while. Uh,

30K space marines have such character. And it's, um, it's really like, I mean, there's plenty of 40K space Marines that are awesome, Dante, especially,

right? But, um, it's just, there's such, so much there. Um, so have you read any of the books yet?

Or are you, like, waiting to step in? Yeah, no, I haven't actually read any, any of the books yet. A buddy, so pretty much everyone around me has gotten into Warhammer as well.

So a bunch of my buddies have started reading them. So I'll probably start pretty soon. It's painful how good they are. You just don't expect them to be holding up with like other like real books. Like it's, it's wild, man. Have you seen the branching timeline of like all of the Horacee books and just like the order you're supposed to go in? It's like opening up the path of egg. exile skill tree for the first time and just being like, oh, oh, oh, that's a lot. That's a lot of

diverging paths. And then you read, but then you go do what I do and you read the night lord's books and it becomes your next fucking Bible and you base your personality off of it. It's good stuff. I think some of the, I think some of the really good ones to start with are like some of those novella ones, which may be like, for example, Valor, Bricky, Valdor, Birth of the Imperium. Because if you have a good grounding in sort of the 40K foundation like Charlie's saying, that one starts Charlie basically sort of pre-Great Crusade. So it starts on Earth, like as they're kind of getting started and almost rebuilding human

society. And it's super interesting because it gets into kind of ethical issues and sort of the emperor being a bit of a hypocrite and all this kind of stuff. It's super interesting. But it's a great springboard. I would almost read that, I think, Bricky, before. I went on to the heresy series personally. I think The Last Church, too.

Really like The Last Church. The Last Church. Yeah, yeah. Maybe The Last Church as well. It's a good story, but some people are like, the Emperor's arguments are not. He's not a good debater. No, he's very much not. But it paints a picture of the Emperor as like a hypocritical tyrant.

Is the last church about when the Emperor was, he was trying to, he got into the argument with the guy about like his ethics and what he was trying to do? I can't remember the name of the guy. Pretty much, yeah. He was like one of the last church founders, and he just kind of walks him and he's like, you're stupid and everything you like is stupid. And then he like burns the church to the ground. Yes.

As you do. Matureing in 40K is real, in Warhammer is loving the emperor and then really being like, wow, this guy's a dick. I have a question. Charlie, I'm just curious. Having sort of learned about 40K and how completely insane it can be, but also how quite, I don't know, heavy it can be. What has been your impression coming in? Do you find it to be silly, stupid, ridiculous?

I know obviously the Space Marine Games. Do you find it, you get more of a feel of it as being, like, ridiculous and over the top? Or does it feel gritty and grounded? Like, if you had to fall one way or the other, which way would you go? For me, it's gritty and grounded. Like, it's, so some of the earlier stuff feels more satirical than, like, the more recent stuff. But for some reason, for me, it hits as like a really, grounded take on what this really far future would look like.

Like the way that information is dispersed where you can't even trust some of the information that comes out really just makes it feel so real to me. Even if something is truly over the top, it just feels like, oh, that makes sense. Like, that's still like grounded to me. Like even there's something like I already mentioned the Demoncula, but even something as over the top ridiculous as that is like, no, like that's turbo evil, like cartoonishly evil, but it still feels like grounded. Like, this feels like something that could happen.

Yeah. I think, I'm sorry, Brickett, I'll let you go on, but I was just going to say, I was thinking about this exact thing today. And people always sort of have this thing of, oh, they either look at it seriously or not. What it feels like, 40K, what it always feels like to me is, you know, I know how insane it is. I know how ridiculous it is. But I like, I choose to approach it in a more grounded, serious way because you can do that too. And it always makes me think of like, kind of like a John Carbenter film, like the classic. the thing, you know? It's ridiculous, you know? Even like, for example, when they, in the thing,

they see the head walking off on the floor and he's like, you've got to be fucking kidding. And it's like, yeah, it's insane. But somehow they all play it straight. They all play it so serious. And that somehow grounds it still, makes it feel. And I always think 40K feels like that to me. No, that's basically exactly what I was going to agree with you on is, uh, It's farcical to an extreme, but they play it perfectly. They treat it so seriously that it becomes almost humorous. Me and Decade an episode a bit ago, it was on the Adeptus Arbides, which is like the Judge Dreadcops. Literally the Judge Red cops.

Literally the Judge Cops. They've gotten some good style recently, but the main thing, a funny thing was they had like their book of law. and their book of law is the size of like multiple like a city-sized library and more laws are being added every single day to the point where it's impossible to track it so no matter what happens most prisoners die of starvation before they get a hearing because it takes that long for you to like or they die of old age before because it takes that long to sift through the law books to see if you're actually innocent it's just like it's a nice little like poke it you know like the system It's great. It's a good time.

Yeah. And even hearing that, like, that is, like, that's silly. But to me, that still feels like so grounded. Like, I could take that seriously. Well, it makes sense for the world, too, right? I think that's one of the big things is that everything is stupid, but you, you and you are able to keep it in, well, consistency is not what I would consider Warhammer to be the best word with. But, you know, at the end of the day, like, everything is still in that same tonal realm.

And it's a, I mean, especially when you look at like the necrons, right? Like, the necrons are such a level above. But one of the common jokes is that when they're immortal, they just don't care. So half the reason why they haven't taken over the galaxy is because they just take a thousand years for, to have a political hearing because they're immortal. Like, who cares? besides necrons well else have you snagged so the big one is necron

but i've also been really getting into like the grey nights i think their grey nights are super cool i've been a big fan of the grey nights and then also orcs i think orcs and shy i just mentioned let's go i think or so fucking cool and they're like the perfect example of being silly like they're constantly

fighting each other like they're if they believe in something enough it's just true it just works I think that is amazing. I think that is so fucking cool. I like the fact that the orcs obviously, you know, originated right from the beginning, almost like the Eldar.

And so, you know, they're kind of theoretically designed as this weapon to counter the Necron as well. And although nobody seems to obviously understand that in M-41, they seem to still be being quite effective in that regard. Like they're almost impossible to exterminate, they continually, like, innovate and come up with ways to sort of attack worlds and all sorts of stuff like that. They nearly destroyed the Imperium at one point.

That's a great story, Charlie, to go off on. But, yeah, they nearly destroyed humanity at one point in time. And they very much could again. And it's because, you know, they seem to be not a concern to begin with. They're really underestimated because when they're in small numbers, they're really not a big threat. You can just destroy them easily. But once they pick up momentum, it's like there's no stopping them, you know,

that's yeah, it's a cool concept. And also they're the only good guys in 40K, so there's that going for them as well. I mean, the word good is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Like, yeah, they're not evil, but like they're still malicious and will eat you and your children

and everything you love and hold dear. They can't help it though. I mean, that's not their fault. Yeah, it's just they were just built different, right? Yeah, you can't be mad at a pile of shit for smelling like poop, you know what I mean? that's how I feel when I think of this here and it's like, they're just hungry.

Yeah, just hungry little guys, sure. I mean, it's so funny, though. Like, sometimes I think about that. And then I read like an orc book, and they have like human slaves and they just make them do shit. And it's just so awful. But then they're just,

but it's being written from an orc's point of view. So they're just kind of like giggling and like laughing and pointing fun at the humis, even though it's like the worst thing in the world. Oh, they're great. They're great. Did you try any of the other 40K games, Charlie? Anything?

I played a little bit of Darktide and I played a little bit of bolt gun. Hey. Oh, yeah, bolt gun. Bulgun slaps, but you love that. I like Bull Gun too, yeah. Rogue Trader, though. Rogue Trader is solid for, like, law and storytelling. And you guys have been trying out the sort of CRP sort of things recently and it's like, yeah, yeah.

It's a good one to go for. Yeah. Yeah, Rogue Trader is basically, it's, I mean, it came out. like right after Baldur's Gate 3, so eyes were not on it. It's also a Pathfinder game, so, you know, it's going to be consistently updated over the course of the next three years, you know. But yeah, are you familiar with the storytelling. Oh, sorry, Luton, go ahead. I was going to say the storytelling and the attention to detail in that game is like really, really strong as well.

You know, it sort of it teaches you a lot. And they really, they thought about a really clever way of ensuring that anybody who played that game could also get a lot of the law out of it because they have their own kind of codex and stuff. So if you're not sure of a term related to whatever they're talking about in the game, you can click on it and it will basically open sort of the in-game wiki, which will sort of tell you what it is. So they really, really expect that they did that for a term. But no, it's great. You play as a rogue trader, which is basically a pompous 1% or asshole. no big spoilers at all but like one of the small quests in the first like three hours of the game has your seneschal guy named abelard basically being like hey the lower decks are revolting because we turned off their heating and like a lot of their kids died and you can go down there and be like well they deserved it like I think five of your options involve killing them and like your other options like the good guy option which is okay give them a little bit more food and put their heat back on and don't touch me what a saint wow It's lovely. They don't pull any punches.

It is full-blown aristocratic 40K. Isn't one of the options literally just like, yeah, I don't actually want to deal with it. Abilard, you go deal with it. I'm going back on missions. And Abilard just goes and kills everybody. I think he executes them, yeah. It's great. It's so funny.

It's played so straight. But no, definitely. If you like Sierra PGs, I don't know if you ever played Pathfinder. I think it's Wrath of the Righteous or something. I have not played. I played Baldur's Gate 3. I like that a lot. Yeah, it's basically 40K version of that.

It's still being updated. It's cool. Plus, a rogue trader has the ability to have, like, lots of different kinds of companions. So, like, you can have an Eldar companion because you're given that freedom as a rogue trader. Oh, wow. Yeah.

And you can't have, like, a necrond because they wouldn't stand for that. But, you know, it's cool. Though there are necrons in the game. So I'm thinking about like when somebody's come from Space Marine 2 or like any of the new series that are coming out and they're interested, they're coming into 40K, maybe they find some law on YouTube. Charlie, for you, what is the more appealing side that you, because we talk about sort of looking at books or audio books and things like that, are you more, do you find yourself pulled more towards the heresy, like learning more about that story? or you more interested in, for example, the unfolding future story with Gillerman and the Imperium Now, which is being told obviously in Space Marine 2, and it's highlighting what's happening there. Those are the two big things.

There are some alien Xenos stuff happening as well. Of those three things, which one would be more appealing to you? And I think why. I'm curious why as well. So for me, it's about the unfolding. The Horacea heresy is amazing, but to me, that's a component of the overall world. So I like learning about it, but it's not like, you know, it's not why I like 40K because of the Horacee. I like where it is and getting excited about where it can go, where it is going, and I like the future of it more.

Yeah, interesting. I mean, because one of the things that I've said a few times now, and I think I said this last time on the show, but I'm pretty sure I'm literally going to die before I find out what happens with the emperor because of how slow. They reveal the law. And it's like, guys, I had got a little time left in my life. I've reached the halfway point of average humans. It's like, I need to, you need to speed it up, crack on a little bit. But yeah, they really have, I mean, I think one of the great things about 40K at the moment is that they really are pushing things forward. People complain a little bit sometimes.

I think that, you know, we aren't finding out things quickly enough. But I think people forget where 40K was 15, 20 years. years ago where you almost were not getting novels. And now they've released new novels literally every single week. I mean, me and D.K., we have our new favorite boy, Mr. Versacelli himself. Vashdor, the Archivane, is arguably one of our favorite characters that have come out of the new lore. They love Vastor.

Poor Vastor. I mean, he's going to get the bellicourt treatment, which is sad. Charlie, do you know much about Vastore? No, I haven't learned anything about Bash Store I just looked him up though He looks very cool I see why you call him Versailles He looks cool

That's the trick He looks he looks cool That's where they That's where they caught you out He looks cool But then Well yeah But then you see his rules

His rules are bad His rules are very bad But his lore is great His lore is incredible He's basically a He's not chaos god He's basically like a demon But he's a strong demon

He wants to be a new chaos god He's a wannabe. He's an arms dealer and mafia boss. So he builds corrupted demon engines and demon weapons and he sells them to the gods. But often, like, you know, like a demon weapon has some demon trapped inside of it and will whisper sweet nothings to you. He kind of makes that. But often a lot of like smaller, lesser demons will want to be, I don't know, in like a big, disgusting machine and kill as many people. as they can. And so they go to Vash Storr. And Vashdor is like, okay, sign here on the dotted line with your blood and feed me this many souls in this period of time. And then you get to keep your body forever. And then sometimes it doesn't work. And then you get to serve in his, the soul forges forever. And he's just, he's just like big mechanical man. It's, he's really fun. But he's been pushing the lore forward a lot. He's trying to unlock some old school shit. And it's, it's good.

the lion are really kind of coming in the picture a lot, call. Oh, well, the lion, we still need, they've been doing stories basically. So, Charlie, you know the Primarks and you know they're returning, sort of some of them are returning now, right? You've got that part.

So, and the lion, obviously, is with the Dark Angels, Gilliman with the Ultramarines, but really we're waiting for them to kind of come together and discuss. That's what the big thing I'm waiting for anyway is. They haven't brought the lion and Gilliman. I don't, Bricky, I don't even know if Giliman is aware that the lion is back again. Um,

the top of my head. I don't, we've never had like them speaking and, you know, the Syciccicry's maledicta makes communication really tough. Yeah, but Gilman's off on his crusade. He's very busy,

so, you know. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I met Dante and Dante reports to Giliman. So I'm sure it's still be in a book at some point. Yeah.

Yeah. But basically waiting for those two guys to come together is a big, big thing. You mentioned you played the original Space Marine. And then what was the other, what was the other one you said? Oh, bolt gun, right?

Yeah, a little bit. I never actually finished bolt gun, though. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's good. It's a little repetitive, but it's fine. Did you get any of the RTS, like mechanic?

Well, mechanic is his term base, but, like Dawn of War, etc. No, I keep hearing about Don of War. I used to be a big RTS guy when I was younger, like StarCraft and Halo Wars

were my big ones. But I never tried the Warhammer RTS. I did forget to mention one, and this doesn't even pertain to 40K, but I played a lot of Warhammer online. So their fantasy MMO, that shit slapped, and I was so sad when they shut it down. Oh, my God. I didn't even know there was a Warhammer online. Where was that? That, I think, was 20, no, it would have been, I think it was like 2008 or 2009, actually, somewhere in that ballpark.

Wasn't like agency, age of reckoning or something, yeah? Age of reckoning. Oh, my God. That's so long ago. Holy. 2008, yeah, the bones are creaking. I hear the bones just aching. Well, like, dawn of war one, I think came out in 2004.

Way back way. I think it's the main thing that comes down to every single Warhammer thing is it's so varied and so many factions. Like, I'm sure you've never ever heard of the soul drinkers before. No, I'm not. It's a side space marine chapter that some people really like. most have never heard of. But like you play something like Space Marine too and you're like, oh, hell yeah.

You know, you get your nids, your space marines and then you get your 1,000 sons. But that's still like what? Like 6% of all the factions in the game, if even. And I think Dawn of War was really popular because it's an RTS but it had like nine factions. And so you had, you know, Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Eldar, Necrons, Orcs, Tyrannids, etc. It was very, very comprehensive, which made it a lot of fun. Yeah, it sounds cool. I totally forgot about Warhammer online, my God.

Charlie, so obviously, like, you're really, you collect a lot of stuff I've seen before, like the cards and all that they say. So in terms of 40K, obviously you haven't played the game. You said you think it's a bit intimidating, but I really don't think it is, especially at the moment. I think it can seem that way, and there's a whole talk about how complex it is and their rules and stuff. But I think to get started with it, it's pretty straightforward. But I'm curious, like, are you more interested?

in sort of just collecting force, you know, armies or characters and so on so that you can have them as a collection and look at them and think, oh yeah, this is X thing in the law, or are you very much sort of leading up to wanting to actually play the game? So I used to be just collecting things for the sake of collecting them. Recently, I've been playing, like, all the card games that I've collected from. Like, I'd always played Yu-Gi-O, but I'd never played enough Yu-GiO that would really justify the stupid collection I have for it until pretty recently. same with magic, same with One Piece.

And for Warhammer, I really think they're beautiful pieces on their own right, especially like from professional painters, which I've been getting quite a few of. So I think for a display, they look great, but it's nice to be able to take them out of the display and play them. So I definitely want to learn it. So that way they'll have utility. But it is cool to be able to point to like Mortarian, right, which is a prime mark I just got in from eBay seller. And point in and then being able to say like, this is the prime mark. This is his faction.

This is now he turned to chaos. It's cool to be able to do that. I think this is one of the best things about 40K, and I've probably talked about it in videos that you might have seen. But the best thing for me about 40K is that people come in to it from different directions. So you might come in from a recommendation to check out a book. You might come into it from playing Space Marine too. And then you learn, oh, there's the books and there's the tabletop and there's the painting.

But I think what's great is that people can overlap those things, and you can enjoy it in different ways. and you may, for example, listen to the stories, you might play the video games, you start collecting the models. You don't play the tabletop like you're saying with the cards initially, but over time you may do. And it's cool that people can kind of go at their own pace and enjoy different areas.

I think that's a really cool aspect of it, which I think, for example, something like Star Wars didn't have for a longest time. They've started doing their own sort of tabletop stuff recently, but it's just incomparable to 40K, you know. But I love that it just has this big tent, of different things going on with it. And I think, is that really appealing as well? Because you were saying about, like, how much law there is and how much you want to sort of invest and get into that. But is it appealing that, hey, this is curious. This is this world. And then they've got all these

other things going on too. Yeah. I think that's a huge draw to it. Like, it's not just me. Like I said, most of my friends have gotten into it too. Not even because I've been like spreading the gospel or anything. I'm not out here banging on Warhammer books trying to convert. But people have just been finding it through like the property blowing up. And I think a big draw is just how much there is to dive into. Like there's so much fucking meat to it. So people really resonate with maybe one faction and you'll have like 30 hours worth of content on YouTube to watch about that faction or like 20 books to read about them. So the fact that there's just so much and so many different components to it just makes it really enticing.

Yeah. Every single faction has your ability to dive super deep into it. And it's often surprising. like dk for example when he was getting into the into the factions his uh his big intrigue were um thousand sons and what was the other one again uh it's just a thousand sons at the start really it's mainly a thousand sons and that but i remember as we would kind of like move through our different topics because uh you know prior to um the podcast here uh almost four year anniversary yippe um the uh dk knew nothing and so as we kept up like learning more and more you know some things

just kind of resonate. Like, I think we're both, there's a Dark Angel book that came out about the Lyme, which is Son of the Forest. And it might, in my opinion, be like a top 5, 40K book like Evermane. But the two of us were just like, all right, I think we're Dark Angel fans now.

Because it takes just one book to fucking send you down that path. Yeah. And that happens like every week. Every week. It's like you learn about a new faction and you do a deep dive and it's like, oh no, it's another like really cool faction. And it's like, like, oh, God, I'm going to spend, like, this is going to be my identity for, like, the next month.

Yeah. I've got, I've got like a 10,000 point, like a 10,000 point solar auxiliary army in the house, which is like four giant boxes full of models. And I'm like, okay, in 2026, I'm going to kickstart this project because it's just so massive. But, yeah, you do kind of go down these horrifying rabbit holes. And then there's all the adjacent stuff as well, like Necremander. There's table top games which are set like within hive cities, Charlie, or you can go to the heresy and it's just Titans fighting.

And there's loads of different, you know, that's the other thing within 40K. It's like they've even got like adjacent sub-faction games and stuff like this, which is awesome. I mean, that's how broad of a world it is, that they can actually create divergent games off of the main IP in the first place, which is epic, you know? Yeah, I think it's super cool.

It actually brings me to a question for you guys that I have. because I haven't found anything in 40K that I think is lame. Like there's nothing I don't like. So I'm curious on each one of you is there's like a faction you hate or a component of 40K that you guys just fucking despise? Perpetuals are definitely one of them. Repetuals are a big one. Are you familiar with Vulcan, prime market salamanders? You know, he can't die.

Yeah. Well, do you hate the ambiguity of this, brookie? Is that what you're getting out like? I hate the, I'm a big fan of Stalman. stakes in stuff. I like when a death is meaningful. It's one of my biggest issues with Marvel right now is that they can yank anyone from a multiverse,

and it's just like that weight doesn't matter as much. It qualifies it. I get that. Yeah, and so like Vulcan, literally so far as we can tell, cannot die at all, and it kind of drops some stakes. That's one of them. I mean, that's for shy.

I definitely have a couple, but Luton and D.K., you can go first. Oh, I am renowned for my hatred of the Ultramarines. Oh, that's so much. What the fuck? I know. Listen, they used to be written so like,

they used to be so overpowered and they used to be so boring. And I just never resonated with them. But, but. I explained this to you last time, D.K. I explained this to you. The more I learn about like their named characters, learned about the demon collaba, what Uriel Ventris went through,

and then the space Marine games is like, okay, I'm softening up, you know, I saw Calgary, the superhero stop and I was like, all right, that's pretty dope. All right, okay, Ultramarines are okay. They're guilt. They're guilt about the heresy.

They absolutely are. But I'm softening up to him, but man, they're just such, they're just such boy scouts. They were definitely worse back in the day to an extent. But they definitely got a, a real glow-up. I fully agree. Learning about Keta-Sukarius, especially, I was like, oh, shit.

I think that's why, yeah, I will do. I think that's why individual character books are important. You know, I was saying the heresy how, like, you can kind of skip over certain books because they just focus in on one thing. And, like, maybe if you're trying to get, like, a big picture of the heresy, like, you don't need to go in detail, like, nemesis. You know, do you need to go in on nemesis? Like, do you need that one if you're going through the heresy series?

you know, yes, but maybe not. So I think character books like DK are saying really flesh out factions. And that's kind of a problem with 40K, which is that it's so big sometimes that you can get a rough idea about something. But in order to go in on it. And I've often said to people about this, I'm like, at what point do you drill down on a specific thing, right? Like Charlie probably knows about the Eldar, the Inari,

but again, there are several books about the Anari, which is super interesting. But that's pretty specific to put your time into that, to drill down on it. But in terms of what I think is lame, I mean, can I just say Tao? Can I just say Tao? Like, do I have to blame? Can I just say Tao?

Is that like a, is that a common take? Do people not like the Tao? Well, I mean, yes. Less lately, I think for people who have been into it for a while, like me and Luton, we heard Tao hatred a lot more back when. I think they've softened a bit lately. Yeah. they have, they've gone,

basically, Charlie, in the, when was it, like early 2000s? I can't remember when they first came in. Way back when. On late 90s. Essentially,

Games Workshop was like, hey, people like Japanese mecca stuff, let's crowbar that into 40K basically and everybody. And so it does appeal to people who really love that aesthetic. And in truth,

I often sort of meme about it, but like, the Tao are genuinely quite interesting as a faction. They do have some really, cool stuff going on with their law and where they're coming from. But they are a bit of a meme in 40K. And I mean, 40K is, 40K is not short of memes.

But the Tao are pretty easy pickings, let's just say. I'll go ahead and play my flag. I'll be a Tao defender. I think they're very cool. Yeah, let's go. Stylistically, they're cool. And I just love the idea that they like present as like, you know, the holier than now good guys.

but they're just kind of all being mind-controlled, basically. Like, I think that's so cool. Yeah. See, again, that's, that's, Charlie's watched my video about this, so now I'm going to get a little shit about it. We don't know that being mind-control. We don't know that.

Yeah, yeah, it is a aspect to it. Aren't we just all mind-controlled by our governments anyway? Oh, please. No. Isn't life just a mind-controlling of superiority? Come on now. Shy screaming. caps, Luton lied in his video.

Yeah. I started my video. I started my video in comics, Sands. Like, you know, it was a big hint about that video. Hold on now. Hold on. If we're talking about spreading misinformation, brother, I got a PhD. I don't think you're the one who has the issues here.

Maybe we should just take the heat off of me. I'm okay with that one. Imagine though. Luton has just brainwashed me into just, believing the town. This is a really, this is a really, really interesting part of 40K.

And I've talked about this a bit recently. It's really, really funny, which is that, you know, in 40K, there's this whole thing about the propaganda of the Imperium and how they, you know, misdirect and change things.

And that even within the sort of higher up bodies, like the Inquisition, there are departments which are completely contradicting and working against each other and being totally counterproductive. and Gilliman saw this when he came back to the Imperium.

He was like, right, I can clearly see that all of this stuff, all of this history which I'm trying to use to understand what has happened so I can make a big plan is completely useless because they've just been propagandising for like 5,000 years. So he just realizes that, yeah, it's pointless. But what's more interesting is that the 40K community is actually reflecting sort of the Imperium because many times people get hold of

something and then it turns into a meme. And then somebody takes that meme, but then translates and tells that to somebody else who then reads that as the actual law. And then enough people talk about it that they start thinking that's actually what happened. And it's just, so it just goes on and on. And yeah, like when you're making law videos, there are obviously many YouTube channels which make law videos. And sometimes when you're reading up about stuff, people might, you know, you might word it wrong or you speak about something, not quite as it is. And, and, which is why I try to be as careful as I can, unless like with the Halvini, I'm joking around.

But yeah, that stuff seeps into the community, and over time it can lead to confusion. But I just love that mirror of the Imperium being this thing where misdirection and confusion and propaganda is constantly a thing. But it seems to happen in the 40K community as well, where people constantly taking something and spinning it out to an end degree. It's just cool. I just love how that kind of works.

So TLDR, TOW totally brainwashed, right? that's what I've gleaned from this. Luton, the entire speech you just made had me slowly sinking into my chair farther and farther because you are literally just describing me. If I had known that every faction explained video would have popped off as much as it did, I probably would have fact-checked that bitch a bit more because it's not perfect. And I make mistakes constantly. But, you know, no one has the ability, especially.

if you're doing a weekly podcast to, okay, here's the book on Dante. Like, I don't have the time to read 40 hours of audio books for Dante in a week. So, like,

sometimes you go with what other people say and what other, like, the wiki articles and stuff. And sometimes that shit isn't right. And it always throws me off. But, um, we should probably,

um, catch up with some of the non sort of book stuff. We should talk about some of the series things that are happening. Um, so the two things that are happening. things that are happening, the secret level, which just came out this week, and also, finally, after the endless circles of people debating about it, Cavill and obviously Games Workshop have said, the Amazon series is happening now. So that's pretty exciting. Did you check out the

secret level this week, Charlie? Yep, I watched it last night. What did you think? And I think it was a beautiful piece. I think it was super hype. It's just a shame that it doesn't have enough room to breathe. like it's too short to get across like a big story. So instead you're watching a snippet of a story, which is still cool. It kind of felt like an E3 trailer. See, I told you, D.K.

Oh, I'm sorry for liking it. Like, I enjoyed it too. Like, I enjoyed it. I just wish it was longer. I just wish it was longer. Oh, yeah. I mean, I definitely wish it was longer. I think we all wish it was longer in famous. But yeah, it was definitely it didn't, it didn't try.

I think it's one of the reasons I liked it is that it didn't try to be more. Yeah. And also, also, I don't think I've seen as good of a representation of chaos on the big screen like that. Yeah.

Love that. It was horrifying. Absolutely incredible. I really did love that where the guy's suit just pours out with either, he's either been turned to liquid or it's blood and it's just pouring out. And it's just like, that was really epic. The other thing I really,

really liked, because I like little details. There's two, actually, this and Space Mirroring. too. I loved the purity seals burning off, Bricky. Yeah, when they enter a corrupted zone and the purity seals for the

emperor just flame right away. Yeah. It's great. It's great touch. Because, yeah, go on, D.K. Oh, I was going to say, I kind of like the fact that like throughout this whole like 15 minutes, they're dragging this coffin around and I'm just like, oh my God, what's in the coffin? Is it a weapon? Is it a gun? Is it a, is it? And then the big reveal happens, it's like, no, it's just a fucking psycher in there. He's just, they're just dragging around a goddamn psycher.

And he dies immediately. Immediately. That was, that's, I love that part because it's just like, you want, you think it's a super weapon, right? Yep. Or something like going on there. And it's like, no, this is our battery cycre that we protected so that we all don't die when we get down here. And then he just immediately dies. It's great.

It's such like horrible treatment. Favorite part? Favorite part of the short? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I love the way they display the brutality of the space marines. I think they did such a good job. So when they're getting like bum rushed and they just start popping heads, like it's just slowly walking and it's just a pile of gore and viscera behind them. It's so good. It's such a good depiction. I have a question related to that then. How obviously like I've seen some of Godslap and, you know, that doesn't hold back. I'm curious, obviously, how how much do you think? the violence, the gore, that aspect, because it's still, you know, it's a dark verse 40K, and it's always some of the descriptions of stuff that happened to people in 40K have

always been really full on. How important do you think that is to the IP? Because a lot of people are worried, now we're moving into talking about the Amazon series. And obviously Amazon have done some series where they also don't hold back, but it depends on the audience, right? So my question is going into potentially in a few years time, this series, how important do you think it is that they retain that level of visceral violence in the series, basically? It's important enough to, like, do you think it defines it in a way? So I wouldn't say it defines it, and this might sound juvenile, but I do think it's, like, of paramount importance.

Like, it is so integral to a lot of the universe, like, the grim dark, like, you need it to be disturbing. You need it to be over the top. So I think they need to keep that DNA intact where they're not afraid to show something really gross and yucky. Like the boys does it to a certain extent for a comedic effect. But if you take like the similar concept and extend it to something more grounded and serious, I think it has to be there for 40K.

I'm full, full agreement. I think one of the things that I've really appreciated is that in the past, mainly since COVID, it's become significantly more. People always say the word mainstream, but it has become significantly more popular. But with that, especially with the games recently and some of the books that they put out, it is not held back. They have really maintained the brutality. And I mean, there are certain things they won't do. Like, you're not going to have like the quadruple titty fiends from Slanesh probably.

Just for the classic reasons, you know. I'll tell you, there's not four titties on them. If there's no four hunkers there, I'm out. Well, it's not lore. A man of taste. Like, how dare they? You know, like, they clearly don't care about their IP. But, but no, genuinely, like, there's obviously issues with that because a lot of cultures have a much less lenient, you know, kind of policy when it comes to sex as they do to violence, which is its own silly topic.

But, but, like, you know, besides that, I mean, every time I see a new 40K thing, like, you see those new Codex arts and stuff, and it's just gross. it feels disgusting. And it's nice to remember that this is a world that you don't want to live in. It's the world I never want to live in. I think we said as well that in the secret level, the sort of demon figure, they designed that really well. Like, it was very uncomfortable and weird.

It felt a little bit alien-ish, like in terms of sort of, it had face-huggerish elements to me. But it still was like bizarre enough. And the fact that it's mouth opened and then that went like into their eye, into their mind and salt like, that was really awesome. It felt very, yeah, demonic, basically. They did a good job at that without

it needing to be done through just violence. I think in some ways, that's what I really enjoyed, was that, yeah, they'd gone from this section where the space moons are fighting the cultists and they're just smashing hell out of them as they would. But then they go to this other figure, and it brings this same level of horrific violence, but in a totally different way. So that was quite good to achieve that in such a small piece of media, do you know what I mean? total side point I do like how we have confirmation that it's the fact

that Titus is just built different like there's no there's no like fancy thing that we're aware of he's just built different he's just a fucked up kid there was and he's just his brain is that crazy

it's kind of kind of a as they were like going through all of the space marines and just like chaos was ripping him apart I was like oh just wait till you get Titus wait till you get to Titus bitch like it's it's on I'm curious

I guess another question for you guys. You've all played the first space marine game? Yeah. Yeah. So do you have any theories on what makes Titus so good about handling the chaos? Because they still haven't fully expanded on that yet. I think he's just built different. You think it's just actually like he is built differently?

Like he's just a different kind of guy. I think his brain, I think he's just that. He's just him. And I mean that like in full sincerity. I think he's just him. Yeah. Like 40K often has a thing where very often the application of force, it will work in every scenario to an extent. You know, every shield can be broken with enough guns.

Every mind can be cracked with enough persuasion or whatever, right? Like, and I think at some point the reverse is just true. You know, some people, I think, just have that clarity of mind. Like, you like the Grey Knights, right? You remember Castle and Crow, the dude who holds the demon blade all around? Yeah, he's an awesome character, but his whole point, he's not, like, genetically enhanced. Well, they all are, but you know what I mean? Like, compared to the other great knights, he is just that fortified of mind.

So I think he's just built different. Is that bad that I kind of want him to be just a little chaos tainted? Just like a little bit and just like there actually is just a little bit of something, something chaos pilled inside of him. And that's what's giving him a little bit of, like, an edge over chaos. and he's just really good at like holding it back and he's just really good at hiding. He's like, no, guys, trust me. No, my sources I've made it to fuck up.

Like, believe me, I'm not touched by chaos. Would have agreed with you before too, but yeah. They speculated, I've speculated on that a lot, that that was potentially like one avenue they could go down. I did speculate also that maybe he is a little bit of a null. Like maybe because it's a, the psychic scale is very, you know, sliding. You can be a very powerful psyche. You can be a human with a little bit of psychic power.

or you can go the other way. You can be a little bit null, you know. And the idea of that is that, you know, in human society and a hive say, if there's one person who nobody likes, they're probably a little bit of a null. You know, they kind of give off an irritating vibe to everybody. So I think like, I think Titus sort of has a bit of that, and maybe that sort of protected him. But the Chaos Marine in the original Space Marine game, of course,

he alludes a lot to, you know, you have been selected. there's something going on. I mean, Zinch, like I said in my video as well, but it plays a long, long game. And it's interesting to me that Zinch was in the secret level video again. So maybe there is something going on there. I don't know. I think it's important here. Charlie, you know what a null is? Yep. Okay, good. I was thinking this whole time. I was like, I hope he's read up on that one because some people don't quite know what that is and it throws it. But yeah, yeah. That's another one I'm curious about whether they will address that when they come to the series itself,

that being, you know, they always, think about space maroon too. They show the space marines coming in. They save everybody as best they can. They obviously write off some aspects to it. But, I mean, you know, are they going to get into the Sisters of Silence? Are they going to get into them capturing humans of all ages, children included, throwing them on a ship, taking them back to terror so the emperor can consume them? Are they going to cover that? You know, and it's, yeah, that, I want them to do that.

I want them to show not just space marines strong. You know, I want them to show the Imperium is horrifying. They need to show that because it's an important duality in 40K, I think. That's one of the things that I have reservations about. I feel like, so for someone that doesn't know Warhammer, the big draw is like, oh, these space marines, they're like really cool war machine. Yeah. So you expect it to be kind of them just going around killing things.

Like with the Sayama Peterson's Astardis, when I first watched that, obviously didn't know anything about Warhammer. So as they were going through like killing, then they get to the psychers. like, what the fuck is this? Like, it was a, like, it was a complete change that I didn't expect. And I feel like going for a more mainstream audience, they'll probably try and keep that as, like, a shock thing, as opposed to something that'll be, like, you know, pretty woven into it throughout. That's my guess. But I'd like if they were a little less, you know, a little more willing to show that kind of element to it and put it more forefront.

They definitely, oh, go ahead, Lou. No, I was, sorry, I was only going to just. say that, yeah, they definitely do need to show it, like you say, but whether they make it a strong bar. I think it might be, like you say, a shock reveal of for people coming in, because when they make this series, it's definitely going to be designed. They need to design it for people coming in new, you know? Yeah. It's going to be super interesting just to see how they handle it, similarly to something like Dune. You know, Dune is such a massive verse as well with loads of big concepts. And that's, again, a big discussion to be had later about the similarities between Dune and

40K. But I mean, Navigators, etc., etc. Dune in any sci-fi property, right? Yeah. But I mean, again, directors, for the Amazon series, we don't know exactly who's... Do we know who's involved

in the Amazon series yet? I don't know. I think it's too early. Yeah, it's too early, I believe. Hopefully, Denny Villeneuve will be finished with Dune and can just move straight on to 40K. That's my hope. I would lose it, man. That'd be the best thing. It can't be anybody else

for me. Can I get Robert Eggers on it? I want him to make something weird. I want him to make some random crazy shit. I'm seeing Nosephiratu on Christmas Day and I'm super hyped for it to go along with the Imperium side of stuff. My, I'm sorry. I'm going to have to bring this up every single time.

I'm sorry, D.K. There's the Nightlord books, which are my favorite 40K books by, and my favorite books in general by a country mile. Absolutely phenomenal writing. but one of the fun parts is because it's so brutal. Like the main characters are a bunch of chaos space marines and they're a slave named Septimus because he's the seventh slave. That's the main characters.

And it's awful. But in the second book, there's a really good excerpt when they're going to a space station to take a bunch of new slaves. And one of them is an imperial machinist worker. and he's just like living in this 200 square foot hab block with his 16 hour work shifts of like putting things on conveyor belts and his life is like the most miserable thing you've ever seen but he's in the imperium and ironically he gets more freedom to live aboard a chaos vessel than he does in the imperium and that like dichotomy is interesting because obviously the night lord's like skin kids for fun they're not cool guys. but seeing that like dichotomy and juxtaposition is I think really kind of shows the brutality the Imperium as well. Also, Charlie, you got to worship a chaos god.

Which one are you picking? Oh, yes. I was thinking about that. It's probably got to be corn. Like, that's so simple. That's a really simple one. Keep it ready pure. Blood for the blood god.

Nice. He'll never stab you in the back. Just to stab you in the front. Just the face over and over again. There's some ways it's a laudable God. in some ways, you know, honor. Yeah, courage. Honor, as long as you, you know, happy to have a fight.

Yeah, have a good scrap. The interesting thing about Corn is that it doesn't care who is fighting, which I think sometimes people forget about that. So even if other chaos factions are fighting one another, or even the orcs are getting involved and they start killing, if lots of chaos marines are dying, corn doesn't really care about that. Corn's quite happy about that.

It just wants the blood shed. It doesn't care whose it is. So not biased one way or the other, which is interesting compared to some of the other chaos cuts. The meme of corn cares not where the blood follows. And it's just like the little Mudang hippo biting someone's ankle, like toothless. I love that.

I love that shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it's also fun. I feel like corn is,

uh, is underrepresented a lot. He's so, I don't know. Like, murderous, don't even wrong. like there's still plenty of like ethereal weirdness to them.

Actually, a total non sequitur. Um, uh, Charlie, did you watch the other secret level episodes? I only watched the Pac-Man one after the Warhammer one, which was, I gotta know your thoughts, brother.

I gotta know it. Like, that one was only 12 minutes. Like, that one was like, you blink and it's over. But like, it was a really good concept piece.

Like, I thought that was a really interesting idea for Pac-Man. Okay, so you did like it. Good. I liked it. Okay. I thought it was, I think they should lock up whoever made it, but like in like a Norway type cell, like make it kind of comfy

because I watched it and I was like, I was like this is fucking absurd and I absolutely adored it. It was like my third favorite underneath Unreal tournament. It reminded me of a, if you've ever played it, Abe's Oddworld. Yeah.

That game is funny. Holy, dude. What a callback. I love that they remonsted those games because that was a, yeah. That's my childhood right there, buddy. Oh, God damn. Yeah, no, it was a wild one.

I really recommend the Unreal Tournament, though. That one's pretty good. Yeah, I plan on finishing the other ones. The one I'm really excited for is next week, Concord. Oh, honestly, I am more excited for it to be better than Warhammer, just for it to be, like, genuinely, like, real cinema. I'm praying for that because it would be so funny. couldn't be any worse than the game, right?

That's so true. Like, think about that, though. If it is actually good and it gets, like, critical acclaim, like, everyone's singing its praises, then it might gaslight them into re-release and Concord for it to flop again, and we could have a morbious situation. It would be amazing. I was about to say it was going to be like a morbious thing. They could assume that there's some kind of inflated interest. Oh, that'd be so good.

Actually, you obviously saw the Astardis thing for, right? Okay. I find the Astardis project to be really, really fascinating because it's obviously just a big fan project. On that note, did you watch any of the Emperor Texas speech stuff? No, I have not seen that. I've seen a couple other fan projects, though, for 40K. Like, there was a recent one that came out. I think it was from a solo animator as well, and I can't remember the name of it.

Unfortunately, I'm legally not allowed to look up Warhammer content. It is my job to stay ignorant. Oh, Becky. Pricky, do you know what was really funny? When I was watching the when I was watching the secret level episode, when they walk into the demon layer

it was almost shot for shot the space king, but where they come in and I was like, wait a minute, is this going to mirror it? It was nearly the same. I laughed. Arbettates life, man. Okay. The one I was referring to, yeah,

it was the awakening from Gabriel Christiane, I think is how you say their name. I think I see that one. It's actually really good. So it's long, too. It's 51 minutes. Holy. Yeah.

Oh, this is too much. Okay, this is actually a bit ago or someone recently. Yeah, this one, this is like right when I started getting into 40K and they dropped this. And I was like, oh my God, this community's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, I did see this. Dark Angels. Okay.

Interesting. Yeah, Dark Angels and Necron. This is a really cool bit to the end. Yeah. Okay. tiniest, smallest nitpick, I have to ask you about Luton. I love

the secret level. I love the Astardis stuff. I think it's great. Do you ever find it a little bizarre that they're just like walking? There's no urgency. Yeah, they do walk quite a long way. But I presume, I mean, again, as with anything, 40K, you can rationalize it a million different ways.

True. Who knows why they had to drop pod. Maybe they had to check through the area, secure it, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can work it out loads of different ways. Yeah. Charlie, is there a space marine who needs to rush, right?

Yeah. Is there any other areas within 40K that like are particularly interesting, like any kind of niche, not faction based, but I would say sort of stuff outside the main line because obviously you've kind of heard a lot of the law already. So I'm thinking dark age of technology, Malkador and his origins, other elements like that that really piqued your interest and are like, I would love to drill into this more. I would be so happy.

It'd be like Christmas morning for me. If they just had more about the war against the AI, like the entire, that whole era is still just kind of broadly spoken about with, you know, the iron and all that. Like, it doesn't actually have everything that happened,

and I would love to know more. I think that's so fascinating. I think it's not, I think I talked about that. I was just going to say, it's not like a concept that hasn't been explored. Like, that would like the geth. But I just think in Warhammer, there's just so much they could do with

that time period and that, like, grand catastrophe. That would be amazing. Yeah. I think I talked about it a lot in my STC video where we go over sort of like the whole golden met, you know, there's that there's that excerpt that they find like an historical document and it goes through it. It's very kind of poetic, so it's kind of hard to interpret like what they're talking about, but it talks about this sort of iron men, golden men, doesn't it? And then there's that whole thing

people talk about is the emperor, one of these golden men from the dark age of technology, etc, etc., so they keep it pretty deliberately obtuse most the time.

I think it will stay that way. What I like is that it's very 40K that there are many, there are seemingly many AI that have survived, but are just completely off the radar of humanity because they're so ignorant, they can't tell. Like,

it happens in that one where it's the shit, ship which, oh yeah, that's great, isn't it? There's one of the great Mechanicus ships, the, what are they called? I can't think the words got out of my head. What are they, arc Mechanicus, the forge ships of the Mechanicus. And this guy's going around in it, and eventually ends up connecting because there's an AI in the ship, because all of these ships do sort of trace back even to the Dark Age of Technology. And so one of the tech priests ends up connecting with this AI in the ship, and they use it to fire its weapons, its Dark Age of Technology, weapons at some Eldor and they kill them horribly because the weapons are insanely overpowered.

But what I love about that is that they've been going around the galaxy trying to find like a fully working STC sort of forge or whatever without realizing that the ship they're on actually is that. And they're sort of going around trying to find it. But actually the whole, the ship that they're traveling in is what they're looking for, which is amazing. But again, they would never be able to use it because the mechanicas are so ignorant, comparative to the scale of knowledge in the dark major technology. I love that. I love that. Shai makes such a good point. That's a robot in the rogue traitor, one of the rogue

traitor minis. And yeah, you are 025, literally one of the men of iron. And he just put an quilla on him. And when people ask, he's like, I have been remote control by Adeptus Mechanicus. And then no one, no one says anything. Yeah, that's true. Are you familiar much with the Voton lore, Charlie at all? No, I don't know about that. So they're like the new space dwarves. They're basically just rock and stone but like 40k they're the most recent faction so they're pretty new

their big stick is the Voton what it is is it's a gigantic STC kind of core that was sent to the people in the galactic core of the galaxy but they they have such a reliance on it that it's ended up

turning into a situation where they almost kind of deify it not quite deify it but they revere it but they've it's been on the whole time for so long that it's like opening up 90,000 tabs of Google Chrome. And so, like, they ask it for questions all the time, and sometimes it'll take days to respond, but they've started going wacky.

They started developing, like, personalities, and they don't answer things correctly, and it's gotten super weird. But those are like a thousand Alexis stacked up next to one another. Basically, yeah. And so, like, that's an AI core that's just there. but the you know because dwarves are always so god damn protective of all their stuff like no one really knows um it's it's it's funny they there's been really good time plus they have AI models in the game

they just have robots that they work with yep but then if uh as the imperium ever asks them they're like shut the fuck up don't talk to me and it's it works it works out quite well in fact i swear it's not a i surely it's not yeah there there's such the level of ignorance and backsliding the Imperium has. This is one of the really funny things. Again, like I say, when you come into 40K, the thing that people see is Big Space Marines glory on a indestructible, like you see in that secret level.

So you get this impression of the Imperium as just being this kind of righteous, you know, sort of Spartan society almost like. And then when you get into it, you realize that they are incredibly stupid, very ignorant. Obviously compared to our technology now, highly advanced, but in the scale of humanity and where they should be in the galaxy, incredibly dumb. And they're too busy, like, fighting all these wars. They haven't got time to focus on it. And it's just, yeah, it's a really cool dystopian bleakness to 40K, which I love,

just this kind of constant grinding failure, you know. I kind of find the photo. It's the, the new one. They just showed it off in the High Lords of Terra, 10th edition artwork. And it's just, such a like a wild image because it's there we go here's part of it not the full image but a lot of it and it these are like the people that lead

humanity these are the high lords of Tara and you just see that you look just like you look to the right and you see like the lady there and she's got two cherubs with guns on her shoulder pads and the lady on the left has a church for a hat and it's just the weirdest shit on the

planet and I love it. They're a bunch of cretons. And like when you think about it, these are the highest ranking individuals of humanity. And they look like this. It's so good. It does have like a really

unique sort of interesting aesthetic, I think. And that's really appealing to it as well. But yeah, Charlie, does that appeal to you? The sort of glory of the imperial, but also this bizarre bleakness that exists. It's this curious, like, double thing that it has going on, which I really enjoy, which you don't see so much in other verses, I think, where it's kind of like humanity's

really amazing, powerful, epic, but it also sucks. Like, they just fail all the time. I love that. I love that disparity. Yeah, it'd be really, it'd be, it wouldn't be as special if they didn't suck. If it was just like they actually are this righteous group, you know, and they're only doing good guy stuff. It just wouldn't be as fun. Like, I don't think the universe would work as well. Like, if everyone else is a bad guy except the Imperium, it'd just be lame. I love the designs in Warhammer too It's always so fucking cool Like this idea that everything needs to be so

Extravagant to like a gaudy degree Like an emperor class Titans Which is just like an entire citadel On top of a Titan it's so cool Yeah yeah And have you seen in those images of those titans Charlie Like in the legs of those Titans They have little like steps coming down

And they have armies of soldiers in their legs So as they're walking across the battle field. So they have the big church on top and they're fighting and they're shooting these weapons that are like as powerful as a sun. And then little doors open and their legs at the bottom and thousands of soldiers run out of their legs. I love it. Absolutely. You know, actually, to roll back that same question you had us. I mean, you said Necron's the first army you're starting. Which army just doesn't appeal you in the slightest? So that's the thing. Like I, since I've been talking about a lot about Warhammer recently,

like on the streams and stuff. So people ask like, what do you like? And what, don't you like? It's so easy for me to say what I like. I haven't found anything yet that I actually don't like. Even perpetuals, it seems like most people don't like that. But I think perpetuals, like the concept of a never dying figure can be used really well. Like they don't have to die per se. There's a lot you can still do like creatively with imprisonment, which we've seen other media do with a character that's immortal. Like you can make it work. Multiverse stuff I don't like. So the one thing that I do have a bit of a gripe with is the way it plays with time occasionally. I don't like.

It hasn't happened a lot. But there is times where it tinkers with time that I'm not too big a fan of because I think anything when you get to time manipulation is way too messy. It gets way too convoluted. And I just, I usually try and steer away from that kind of stuff because it doesn't appeal. But everything else I think has just been kind of a slam dunk for shit that I like. I don't know. I've done a good job.

was Tao. Yeah, going. I think the answer was Tao. Sorry. They've done a good job. But just give them a year. I'm telling you, they tower,

I'm about to have a crazy glow up. No, you're entirely right. I never gave a shit about the mechas. I always loved the covenant from Halo 2 style. And then they redid the entire

crew range and gave us new Vespids in the kill team. And so they're starting. They're tickling them a fancy a little bit. They've done a good job of avoiding going down the time stuff too much.

They do touch on it here and there, but I think they're kind of aware that it's dangerous and destructive. And the multiverse thing too. I think there are some stories where people say that that kind of is part of 40K to a degree, but I think they haven't really gone in on it in any big way. And I hope they never do,

because I think it really, I think it really destroys IPs. I mean, you just can name many others that they've tried to do this with. And it's just, I don't think it'll ever happen with 40K either because I think similarly to Shai says they do cool stuff with time where galaxy is so fucked with warm chaos.

No one fucking knows what year it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I like that. I like the idea that, again, when Gilliman comes back, he starts trying to figure out what year it is and what time is going on. And again, he quickly realizes that the timeline is meaningless, which is why I often have people in videos saying, like, Luton, can you tell us the date of this, this, this?

It doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, in some respects, yeah, sure, it helps us as an audience to order our thoughts, but it doesn't matter really in the scheme of things. And they've started to even change the way they record time in the narrative now because it's only localized to certain areas. Because beyond that, you cannot keep it accurate enough for it to be even worthwhile. So, yeah, it's really cool.

But yeah, I don't think they will ever go down any kind of multiverse group personally because I just don't think that's how 40K is done. And Charlie, this actually links to something I was going to say earlier, which is that I think overall, like I said, said in terms of, I don't think I'm ever going to live long enough to know what happens with the emperor. They are careful about how quickly they reveal stuff. And although they have been banging out a load of stories recently, they don't, I mean,

Brickie will tell you, like, they don't get into the meaty stories without being more careful about it. And look, you know, they don't get everything right. There are, you know, people have opinions about stories and events they've done, which are good or bad or interpreted well or not. but I think overall they try hard to not screw it up because I think it's seen as like an ongoing timeline rather than we get to this point

and then we can do it again in a different way and do it again in a different way. I don't think they're interested in going that direction and yeah, I hope they never do. We've been going for a good period of time. Did you have any other questions particularly or things you're curious about or one of the topics to hit on? Nothing too particular.

I think all of us here are pretty excited for the future of the property. like I just got into it and it seems like I got in at the point where everything's starting to fall into place where they're doing more and more and bigger and bigger. I know for a while,

Games Workshop had a reputation of being like really against like growing it like too much. At least that's the impression I got like with a starties they had the big drama where they wanted to take it down like they didn't like that but I mean from my perspective it looks like they're not clamping down as hard

like the awakenings still up. So to me, to see they're really looking to push it more. Yeah, I think it's moving in the right direction. I think it's moving in the right direction. I think the broader the company and the IP gets, the more they start to see that. I think they're working with people more.

And I think when that series comes out, that's going to be the big deal. That's going to be like an era-defining time. Actually, I mean, just a last thought as well, Charlie. I mean, do you find it particularly, well, I mean, it is interesting, but do you find it particularly interesting or any thought about how kind of 40K has sort of been off the cultural radar? Do you know what I mean?

Like it's always been there. And I think if you're into gaming culture and that sort of thing in general, you kind of know a 40K because there are games and there are things and people. But it seems like for so many people, a lot of people. It's kind of been on the periphery, you know? And only in the last sort of five years, it's really got some teeth. And I think when this series comes out, that's going to be it. Like it's going to be fully. I hate to say it, but sort of, well, I don't know, not mainstream.

I don't think it'll be mainstream, but the audience will increase. Before you would say, like, I play a lot of Warhammer and people would say, what's that? And then now eventually you'll say, oh, yeah, I think I saw a little bit of that. Like, it's kind of hidden that point. I don't know, like a big prime series, Henry Cavill, like that. I don't think mainstream is, like, that far off from what, like, that success. Like, if it's successful, like, I think that could push it. like full on mainstream, right?

I certainly think so. Like, that's a crazy big name to have attached to it. And in my perspective, Warhammer has always had a really healthy community from, at least since I've been in it, like looking back on everything. Like, there's entire studios that are, their whole business is painting minis for people and they make a killing doing that. There's whole YouTube channels that get, like, you guys, millions upon millions of views with a dedicated community that just love the property. So like it feels like it's always been healthy Just for some reason falling to the wayside and like the cultural zeitgeist or whatever But it in a similar way like Magic the Gathering right magic the gathering right magic the gathering has been there since the 90s

But only recently have people really been starting to talk about it more and make more content around it So I feel like with this show it's going to be that big like eureka moment like Warhammer's always been good and now you're all hearing about it but you know it is here it's been here for a long time. So it's, it's going to blow up. Yep. That's the hope. I also, I mean, I feel like, you know, everyone got trapped in their homes for a whole year. And that, it's really good time to paint minis, you know. And look up lore videos and yep. Yeah, that was the time for it. No, I think, I think, I think, it's a shookup bottle just waiting for someone to uncork it. I think it's good. I think, uh, I think for the most part of my only real issues has just been

general handling of certain things. I play a ton of the tabletop personally, and it's a, that's a thing that I think is becoming a bit more also mainstream as people kind of get into it. And especially with the rise of things like tabletop simulator, there's a little bit more like avenues to understand. But I don't know.

There's a lot of options. Oh, yeah, that's a good question. I was going to, we're going to ask. Yeah, you're going to paint some minis? So I like building them. I suck so much acid painting. it's gross. Oh, same brother.

I feel the exact same way. I think we've all been there, right? Yeah. So I don't think I'll be painting them too frequently, but I've been buying painted minis from actually talented people, so I don't just ruin the fucking minis. I feel like it's a time thing. Like I know my old minis, oh my God,

my first army was gray nights and holy shit, the thickness of those paint. They are so bad. But I think for me it's just time, too. you know, we're all busy people. So, considering that, like, painting a squad takes like

seven hours sometimes. It's just, that's one of 2000. Yeah, there's so many tiny little nooks and crannies and crevices that you gotta get some painting. It's just, it's so much,

and I'm just not good at it. Yeah. And then when you get, like, the really expensive models, and it's like, oh, no. I paid, I paid a lot for that.

My painting skills are not up to par for this. It's staying in the box. It's intimidating. I have models or I have larger models, which I kept primed for like a year, two years before I even could start to approach them because I had to plan out what sort of color scheme I was going to paint, how weathered it was going to be, all this kind of stuff. And yeah, yeah. But it is also a journey like anything. And just building them is really fun. Some people hate building. I find it really therapeutic. Same. I love building. Yeah. It's just you can just steadily go along with. build, you can listen to some stuff, listen to some law, listen to some stories. So, yeah, it's good. I mean, this is actually another thing. I'll just tokenly throw this in here, Charlie.

Like, there is a whole area of 40K, which is that some people find the building side of it and the painting side of it really beneficial for mental health. It's a really big thing. People love it. People that have been in the military or people that just, you know, trying to find ways to sort of calm themselves. And I get so many messages from people about that kind of thing. It's just a whole other area. And it's not so many people think about, but that's another when you kind of wholesome,

amazing area of this where, yeah, it's a great part. You can get a lot out of it. Yeah, you can get a lot out of it different ways. Yeah, no, it's, and, you know, it's one of those things I think, especially a lot of people who like Warhammer are, can be a bit older. And I think for a lot of, like, older men,

especially they don't really have a creative outlet like that to be artistic in a way and it's um it's it's it's a nice one and then you get to play with your little or a green army men and and make noises and roll shill at a dice and it's the best um anyway rolling around time frame uh luteon anything to add or should we uh should we wrap it all up i think we can wrap up i think covered everything there so yeah hell yeah oh well hey uh charlie genuinely um really excited that that you're getting into the hobby. I think all of us definitely did not expect it to become as big as it was, at least in the last couple of years.

But goddamn, am I not complaining about it? No doubt. No, no, definitely not. I love it. I wish I got into it sooner. I guess if we're going to wrap here, I'd like to throw one question out, kind of close it here. Yeah.

Do you guys think the Warhammer community is ready for it to be mainstream? Because I think once the Amazon series hits, it will be. Is that going to be something the community is excited about, or kind of skeptical on. Depends on the person. Yeah. There's a mixed bag. There are,

I mean, every community, do you watch much Formula One stuff? Not, not really. Not often. Okay, so I don't either,

but my sister and her friends are really into it. And, um, her thing she mentioned was like when, when it got, I guess Formula One had like a, like a Netflix movie or like a, like a,

like a, something like that. And I don't know exactly the name of the, of the movie, but it got a ton of people into, like a documentary. into Formula One. And the fan base had a name for the people who got in from that movie because they're not

like real Formula One fans. And I honestly feel like that is exactly what it will. And honestly, it's currently happening in Warhammer. But, I mean, those voices don't really get to have a say because it's going on whether they like it or not. So as far as I think it's pretty, it's definitely moving. but I think the more, what's the word I'm looking for, reasonable voices will hopefully prevail as, yeah,

being popular and being good or not mutually exclusive. Yeah. I think it just depends entirely on how it's handled. In terms of anything getting bigger, you can handle it well or you can not. And I think the key thing with that is staying sort of true to the defining aspects of it like we've already talked about. So in terms of the grim dark aesthetic and the narrative and keeping it all, you know, making sense.

Basically, don't do what Star Trek have done, you know. Don't do Picard. Don't like, you know, completely burn whole, you know, decades of law and series, you know, don't do like what Star Wars has done where they took all the extra material and just chucked it and burned it as well. things can be really positive and really good as they expand because budgets increase, you get more material, you get more stories, you get more expansion. And I try to remind people about that. I try to remind people that from the sort of eighth edition of 40K,

we've expanded and we've had for the longest time, for the longest time, it was 40K was stagnated. And that's the point where I took a break for like three old editions or so, because nothing was happening. They told some stories, but nothing really was happening. And I think people forget that really quickly. People forget that there was like 10 years of 40K being a thing, where nothing really happened.

A lot of people have come into 40K in the last sort of 10 years, and they forget what it was like a long time ago, where there were not stories, there were not novels, there were not audiobooks. There was no forward progression. 40K used to be Charlie basically the high lords of terror are ruling from earth terror and yeah that's it you know the the imperium is basically fighting aliens and keeping them at the door and that's basically it nothing is really happening and now we've got you know the anari we've got the chaos gods pushing back we've got abadon coming in we've got gillam and returning we've got the emperor sort of stirring there's all these things that are happening um I also think if you look back to like the series where it was like the space marines, some of the original animations sucked.

Just, you know, the quality of the animation is not there. And I think another thing people have talked about with this series, potentially this series, this Amazon series is how seamlessly are they going to integrate visual effects and human characters? You know, how seamlessly. Because we all know that that's very, very, very hard to do in a way where your eye is not deceived. You know, they're going to have to do it with a mixture of physical and, you know, cut, well-cut shots to sort of blend it all together, make it believable.

What's that? We've got books from the Ork point of view there, good. Necrotun, fucking Lord of Rings managed to do it 20 years ago. I know, that's true, but Lord of the Rings is a little different because a lot of their outfits and stuff are physical, you know, whereas space marines, in terms of the scale of space marines, you've got to be very clever how you integrate that. But I think in terms of the question of, is it going to be well-received, it's dependent on all these things. It's dependent on how it's handled.

And a lot of people, of course, want to believe that something going mainstream will just destroy it automatically these days. I don't think that's the case. I don't think that's the case. I think that there are going to be things inevitably that are compromised because that is just the nature of it. But I think everything

that I see leads me to believe that they will want to keep a tight rain on it. Everything that you see Games Workshop do and their writers want to keep it tight. And if they don't, it'll be to their own failure because it will inevitably implode over time if they don't. So, yeah.

But I think for the audience, it is what it is. It's going to be a mixed bag. You know, you can't please everybody all the time. Simple as that, really. And do the same thing, but with a bigger budget. Well, let's not the same thing. But like, I think it's a positive era. Keep the values.

Yeah. I think the message overall is it's a positive era. I'm happy that things are being told and unfolding. I mean, Christ. Bricky, like the way things are going at the moment, I mean, you can't keep up with the stories coming out. You know? No, you genuinely can't.

I'm, I fully agree. I, everyone I know that, like, there's some, some grouches, no doubt, but like, everyone I know that likes Warhammer generally got into it in eighth edition. And if they didn't, and they got into, like, third edition in 2006 or whatever it was, they're, they took a huge break because they were bored. And now they're finally back and they're stoked. And it's just, it's such a widespread community that it's going to be hard to get every opinion.

But, uh, no, I think. I mean, I'm hopeful. So far, everything that we've gotten has stuck to the values of this shit sucks, this universe sucks, it's bloody and gory and awful. And that's awesome. That's what I want. God damn it, we love it. So, yeah, I think, uh, I have tentative hope. I think if it doesn't go well, it won't be because of anything going mainstream.

it'll be the same reason everything goes wrong. Plain old mismanagement. And also, Charlie, I'll just say a big thanks for you for coming in, speaking to us today as well, because I think people like yourself coming in and having that sort of interest and wanting to be involved with the 40K community is equally important. Do you know what I mean? Rather than just being like, hey, I've heard about this thing and I'm going to talk about a lot.

Getting involved with a community, I think is really important. And I think people coming in and doing that is really. great. So I really appreciate your time and talking to us today about it all. It's been really great. No, thanks for having me on board. Like, I've, everything I've seen from the community has been extremely positive. Like, it's not just Luton and Bricky that I watch. I watch a lot of West Hammer as well. Like, I've been very deep for, like, actually consuming the content and learning about the community as best I can. And I just really like all of it. Like, I haven't seen anything like negative or anything like that. It's all been great. So I'm excited to see it continue to

grow. Hell yeah. No, I'm, I'm very, very happy to hear that. I would be honest, super surprised that you had a bunch of miniatures yourself. That was, that caught me a bit off guard. But like, honestly, I have like nine armies myself. Like I, I, every time there's an army, I don't really care much about, I read a book about them. And I'm like, fuck, I guess we're starting Gene Steeler Colts now. You just reminded me the Gene Steeler Colts. I almost pulled the trigger on getting a like a comic painted version of the Gene Steeler Colt. Oh, dude. The Gene's stillicults amazing.

I love. I'm going to do mine up like Disco Elysium. Each of the factions are going to be colored like a various mental map of, uh, of Harry de Bois, like the blue and the red and stuff. I'm so hype. That's going to be super. I don't even know anything about Gene Steeler cult, but I just thought they looked really cool and the paint job was nuts and I was almost like,

I don't do it. Um, yeah, man. Again, thank you so much. Uh, you're always welcome to the pod. Obviously, I'm sure if you ever have questions or things going on, myself and especially Luton, would love to hear from me, answer whatever you got. But until then, thank you, everyone also to our audience and for all of our listeners to really appreciate it.

A shy is a secret fan as well. I don't think it's a secret, Berger. I think it's... Well, she waited until the end of the episode to do it. But so a little bit of that going on to very... very sweet. And yeah, again, million times appreciate it.

And all of us here at Adrick, you know where to find us. But Luton, do you want to shout yourself out for those who may not know who you are? You can find me on YouTube. Lutin 09 L-U-E, T-I-N-0-9. I cover 40K law. Hopefully you've seen me before

if you're listening to this podcast, but if not, come and check me out. And Charlie, where can they find you? You can find me around under a bunch of silly names Usually like Moise Critical or something I have like five different dumb names Yeah Penguin Zero is an old oldie I remember that one from high school

Good days Awesome everyone viewers thank you so much once again And we will see you next week For the four year anniversary of Adeptus Ridiculous Peace out