Adeptus Ridiculous - WHY WARHAMMER 40K IS SO GOOD? | feat. @PatStaresAt

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

https://www.patreon.com/AdeptusRidiculoushttps://www.adeptusridiculous.com/https://twitter.com/AdRidiculoushttps://orchideight.com/collections/adeptus-ridiculousWhat makes Warhammer 40k good? The art, the grimdark, the variety of stories to be told, DA BIG MEN WITH BIG GUNS SHOOTING EVIL ALIENS? Maybe over the top violence, taken 100% seriously? Maybe the tabletop wargame? Miniature painting and collecting? A faction for everyone, the span of mediums - from books to movies to videogames, the depth of lore? THE COMMUNITY? EXPLORATION OF FAITH & BELIEF EVEN? Let's figure it out with our special guest Pat.Support the show

Welcome everyone to another episode of the Adeptus Ridiculous podcast. My name is D.K. Diamanties. His name is Bricky. And we have a special guest here. It's Pat. But before we get into that, if you enjoy today's episode at all and you feel like supporting us on Patreon, head over to patreon.com slash Adeptus Ridiculous, where, by the way, you can follow for free on Google, Apple, Facebook.

There's also a free trial, but you do need to put in a credit card at patreon. at patreon.com slash adeptus ridiculous. You can get access to our Discord, bloopers if they happen. The $15 tier gets you access to all of our posters, which, by the way, Bricky, I believe we have a poster today. Do we not, shy? Do we or do we not? Do we or do we not have a poster?

I don't have a poster. I don't have a poster. Yo, that's so good. Wait a minute. That's actually incredible. This is the best poster you've ever done. Look at all those dwarfs. Look at all those dwarfs.

They're doing the soy jack pointing emotes. You got a Voton, you got a deep rock, you got a... You're right. It's all the dwarf fans together. It's a very pretty picture. That's actually incredible. Man, that one in the back is jacked. Are you a dwarf fan, Pat?

No, I have enough of that going on in my regular life. Unnecessary self-loathing. Mm. I'm 5'2. What do I need to fucking get into a dwarf faction for? I just need to look at the mirror. Well, maybe you relate. No!

Do you like corporations? Do you like to mine for someone else's dollar? No. Okay, well then, yeah, there's something there for you then. That's true. The only thing about dwarves that appeals to me ever is the Book of Grudges. That's pretty great. I love the Book of Grudge.

Yes. Yes, but this poster, hey, patreon.com slash adeptist ridiculous. But man, gee whiz, if I wanted a. physical version of this poster to put up on my wall per se. Bricky, where would I get one? Hey, you could check out the merchandise there from Orchid8.com where you can get the brand new poster as well as a bunch of new other items. However, keep in mind, we may have a brand new merch drop coming in October and it might include lots of new dice and lots of new products and lots of new stuff. So keep your minds

and eyes open. There's some new stuff happening. Today's episode, Shai said she has a thing for me to read. Oh, my God. That is, you know. There's some words there. Okay, okay. So here is what Shai has said. With Space

Marine 2 being wildly successful, a lot of new people are coming into Warhammer, and I wanted to talk about what makes the setting compelling to the old and new fans and the people present here. We all just saw Concord just come out. Oh, man.

And eat ass like something I haven't seen since visiting your mom, Shai's words, not mine. And even if that game was any good to play, it wasn't. It actually really wasn't. Yeah, it didn't look that great. Literally, no one connected to its characters, lore, universe setting, or visual design. And with Space Marine, people seem to get into its vibes right away. Oh, hey, before we go any further, I feel like it, it, would behoove me to be like, you guys introduce me as Pat, but I'm actually Pat from Pat Stairsat.

Oh, yeah. That's actually true. We kind of did gloss over that, didn't we? I stream on Twitch, and I have the Castle Super Beast podcast on, usually on Mondays. Okay, there we go. Perfect. All right, all right. Now get out of the way. We're talking Warhammer. Right now, it's definitely like the big Renaissance, not necessarily Renaissance, but there's a huge input for Warhammer now. I myself have found my main every faction videos receiving a massive boost in popularity again. Oh, everybody watched that one, right? But like just because

Space Marine is out, more people are curious about it, so they want to know more about it. And so I think it's just kind of interesting to talk about how people get into everything. Pat, you yourself, I'm actually kind of curious. How did you get into this universe to begin with? I, okay, so the original toe dip was a relics dawn of war. Because I liked Company of Heroes.

Is that the timeline? I feel like it went in that direction. Was Company of Heroes first? Or was Company Heroes second? I can't remember. Regardless, I liked Real Time Strategy Games at the time. And I saw this StarCraft game, but it wasn't StarCraft.

It was called Warhammer. And the Terrans looked way cooler in this game than they did. in Starcraft because they were head to toe in power armor and were yelling, brother! And all that shit. Yep. So then I played Dawn of War.

And then I learned about the, you know, Space Marines and the Chaos Marines and the orcs and whatnot. And then I played Winter Assault where I learned about the guard. And then I played Dark Crusade where I learned about the Tao and the Necron. And then after that, every time some kind of Warhammer or video game floated past my eye, instead of going, huh, I wonder what that is. okay. Oh, it's that Warhammer thing. I wonder if the tower in it.

They're not. They never are. They're not. Except for that one time they were. Yep. Except for that one time they were in a PlayStation 2 game. Is that fire warrior that we just don't talk about? Yeah, it's pretty terrible. Hey man, they're fun to play in Dark Crusade.

That's true. Hooray. So you got into Warhammer primarily through video games. Full video game buy-in. 100%. Okay. I remember playing Warhammer Curse of the Horned Rat

a million years ago. Oh, scathing game. And that game sucks. So that didn't stick with me. Yeah, that probably didn't help. No. No. Holy shit.

I forgot about this game. Yeah, because I'm like entirely, I'm like entirely opposite because I have played, I played very few Warhammer games because I was super not into like RTS games. I got into Warhammer because shy and her old art streams would always be talking about like how cool the orcs were.

And everything orc related in 40K just seems so stupidly amusing to me with like the wah energy, the imagination that I was like, I need to look into this at some point. And so I just got into it from purely a, God, the orcs are crazy and just kind of delve deeper into the rabbit hole from there. If we don't mind. Sorry, if we don't mind, I found the box. of a shadow of the horn rat on the PlayStation 1. Oh my God.

What a, what a vibe. That's right back. Hmm. That's old. To answer your question, it's kind of twofold. I knew I had a buddy who was really into Space Marine One back when it came out, way back when. I do remember before that playing Dawn of War one and,

I think I started with Donna War II, but I then played a lot of Donner War I won because there was like a game shack when I like a PC bong kind of back in the day that had those on it. And I was like, oh, it's really cool. And I hate to admit this, but I mainly played Eldar because. Wow. I know it's wild to hear, right? They don't even feel fun in that game. So it was because of the warp spiders and their teleporting stuff. It was really cool.

That was in Donned War II at least. And then from there, I started reading a few of the books. There's actually a hilarious picture of me at like 17 and the ugliest chair known the man reading a Pandarax, which is a Grey Knight, Dark Angel Apocalypse book. But from there, I eventually got back into it because my Dairy Queen manager

was a huge Warhammer guy and he's like... This is like the most Warhammer story ever possible. I know, it really is. We had a long eight-hour shift and I didn't really know enough about the factions. And he was like, you're going to learn today. And then I bought myself Grey Knight's because I was like, what the hell are you telling me all these Marines are psychers? And then we played a bunch of seventh edition and it sucked.

And then I quit. And then I came back in eighth edition and bought guard and I liked it a lot more. I think it's super impressive. Like Games Workshop is occasionally insanely evil and short-sighted. Yeah. But there is one thing about them that they've been really, really far-sighted about. So 3D printing is going to annihilate their core business model. eventually. Like, not now. Maybe not even soon, but like the, the miniatures are like prime items to be 3D

printed. Yeah. Um, and so they have like spent like decades just, hey, man, you want books? We got books. Hey, you want, you want, uh, you want art stuff? We got art. Let's make it, let's make painting the mini more important than the mini itself. You like, you guys like video games? We got video games. And now, and now they're going to. going to be going like, did you like Superman? Well, he's helping us make a TV show. Yeah, I mean, you might as well diversify. Like if you can and go past just, oh, hey, we've got really cool minis.

It's like, well, now we've got really great video games that everybody loves and, you know. I definitely think sometimes people often ask me, like, why buy some of the minis instead of the 3D printing? And for the, for the most part, I always tell him the same thing. It's kind of like that Gabe Newell quote where he's like, piracy is not a, it's like, not, cost or like whatever issue, it's not, it's a service issue.

Yeah. Like, no matter, at the moment, at the moment of recording this, 3D printing your miniatures is fine, but it does not hold a candle to plastic. Exactly. Games Workshops plastic is incredibly good quality. And their,

their scopes are amazing. And I can't find a single 3D printer that does it as well as, as they do. And so, so long as we keep that, we're chilling. Yeah, so like I, but those days were numbered. When I was in high school and I convinced my dad that a CD burner would be a really good investment. He was like, Pat, that's like $250.

It's like $300, right? I'm like, no, no, no, don't worry about it. I got it. And the CD burner was a really good investment because I sold like hundreds of copies of StarCraft that summer. Legitimately, of course. Yeah, no, super legit. Allegedly legitimate. was selling every kid at school, my lending version of Starcraft and Bruthor for $10 a fucking disc when this costs a dollar.

But that was because when you burnt a CD, it was for all intents and purposes identical, right? like 3D printing is both not as ubiquitous as a as a as a as a as a as a as a as a CD burner is or was at the time. But also the quality difference is like it's a it's a it's a tangible quality difference. So like there's time. Those minis have time before, you know, everybody's uncle has a 3D printer that's just as good as a manufacturer. Like they probably got like 15 more years. But I do I do want to kind of talk a little bit about the whole getting into 40K, especially. especially as a bit recently. I was playing Space Marine 2, and I was thinking, the whole time I was thinking about talking to you guys, even before Shy invited me here, right? Because you guys are my contacts for big Warhammer nerd shit. And I was looking at it. I'm like, why is this just so, like, it's like getting in there.

Like, I feel it in my chest. And I came up with the phrase that I use sometimes just too much is never enough. and Warhammer as a IP franchise concept is a as far as I can tell you guys can obviously correct me if I'm wrong but it feels like a franchise that was built backwards so usually what you would have is a fiction like six Star Wars right you have the movie and the toys come from the movie and the toys replicate Han Solo and Luke Skywalker, etc. Right? And because kids or adults really like the movie,

they want a Han Solo doll or they want a, you know, whatever, right? They want a R2D2, right? Yep. Warhammer did it backwards in which the toy is the first item. Yeah. Here comes the toy. And every single thing that has ever happened after that ever is a cell on why that tiny little plastic guy is actually the coolest dude you've ever fucking seen in your life.

Like, everything is backwards. Here's the cool design, and it's design first. Like, all the units always look incredible. But I want an emotional resonance with this character. So I'll take the Ultramarines who are as generic as it gets in, in fucking Warhammer, right? Yes, yes, they are. Okay, let's take, let's take Space Marines. let's humanize one ultramarine Titus

and let's show you what being an ultramarine is like and what kind of stuff they're up to and by the end I'm like yeah okay I don't really dig the Roman aesthetic that the ultramarines go for but yeah these guys are cool like I'd never roll an ultramarine army but like I don't hate them as much as I did before I played space marine Mm-hmm.

Hell, I almost feel like Space Marine, Space Marine 2 specifically is practically meant to sell you guard models. Yeah. Like, yeah, I like, yeah, I go through that campaign and I'm like, man, the guard, though. So cool. They're so good. They're so upstanding, KDAS, some of them are even fighting off the effects of the warp. And, yeah. And like, then I, I, I'm chilling in my chat, and someone in my chat goes, hey, has Page, my wife?

and also streamer, Peach Saliva, has Paige seen the Necron? I'm like, no, she has not seen a Necron. And so I showed her a picture of a Necron. And she went, oh, what the fuck is this? I love this. I'm into Warhammer now. And she is now looking at reading the Infinite and the Divine.

Oh, let's go. There's a special edition of that coming out soon. And it looks really great, guys. Like, that stems from, what if the little skeletons were robots? Okay, how do we make the little skeletons and the robots more interesting than just being a complete banger, like visual design? Mm-hmm. Let's allow people to make a bunch of RTS games and Mechanicus and write a bunch of books about them so that people know that they're not just cool looking.

They're really cool also. Yeah. I do not find much fault with that, like, logic. Like even with like the books. Like I feel like for me like the big turning point that made ultramarines like, hey, I don't hate Bluebears. It was like, I mean, I don't even really read them. It's like this ultramarine omnibus. And like one of the like worst things, the demon collabba happens in it.

And it's like, oh, it's just, it's terrible. But this one ultramarine is just going through it. He's struggling. He's failing. Chaos is all around him. And it's just like, hey, he's just. a dude like he's not perfect he's he's relatable yeah he's nine and a half feet tall and has 10 hearts and four stomachs but like yeah but it's like it's interesting he's not just the little boy scout

that's just oh the codexistates does not uh agree with this action blah blah blah he's like he's he's a dude and i like him and he struggles and he goes through it and it's not just he's not just this perfect little blueberry that i expect him to be and it gives me a reason it gives me pause to be like, hey, maybe it wouldn't be so bad to have a little ultramarine guy, you know, even if it's just for decoration or something. So, you know? Yeah, I agree.

What you said there, D.K., made me really think about something. You know who's so important to, like, my personal understanding of the ultramarines and also the Space Marine 2, and Space Marine 1 plots, is fucking Leandro's. Leandro's is like

such a stupid little bitch. Yes. He is, and like, he is like everything that is wrong with the ultramarines.

Like, everything. He doesn't even follow the Codex of Staris and he's just so, oh, well, we're going to follow the codex of starting.

This perfect foil for every other character. Yeah. Yes. I mean, that, that is kind of the dynamic that I liked a lot

in the first game. Even though I'm pretty harsh on the first game, I found the squad dynamic pretty good because you have like Titus, who's like kind of your generic guy. And then you get Sedonis, who is the, the grizzled vet. And then you have Leandro's like, like, brand new, like, soyboy.

Like a little, little baby bitchy. When people think Ultramarines, they think Leandro's. I think you're right. I used to think of the Ultramines as Leandro's. Like all of them were just Leandro's. And slowly, as more characters got introduced to me, I was like, oh, they're not all these little boy scout bitches that all was just, oh, what does the Codex of

30s? And so, yeah, definitely helped to just get more. Shai had something interesting to stay where she says they still do lore backwards. For example, we want to update the space marine line, just updating models and saying these are the same guys redone. They instead add primaris marines with their own lore and keep both in

universe. Yeah, there's that. I mean, sometimes they just kind of like just roll it. For example, the Imperial Guard got a new tank called the Rogel Dorn because they have the Lehman-Russ tank named after Levin-Russ and they got a Rogal-Doran tank named after Orgo Dorm and they basically were

like, yeah, this isn't a new tank, this tank has always been there and they just kind of like retroactively did it. It was just like off-camera. Yeah, they do that. We just found the SEC for it. Of course it's always been here. It is kind of that thing where yeah, as things got bigger, it's like, all right, well now we need to write a lore for our funny Grim Reaper

man and his name is Morrigan and then he got kind of stinky and then he became a moth and now he's big. and then there's all the reasons for it. It's so funny too because that's like kind of half the fun, right? You take the Warhammer aesthetic. You take the world. You take the genuinely like morally and existentially crushing life to be lived in this universe

while making it goofy as shit and playing it with a straight face. It's such a hard line to walk and they often fail. But when they do it, it's that fun. Oh yeah, when it hits, it hits. It's a universe entirely defined by the TV trope, the rule of cool. Like, yeah. Hey, we're going to write a backstory for this. Oh, what would fit in?

No, no, no. What would be cool? We'll fit it in. We'll just, if you keep writing long enough, you can fit it in somewhere. And you know, I think that's kind of the beauty. I didn't know, Martyrin is a fucking moth now. He looks awesome as shit, by the way. Oh, yeah, his mini is so great.

I would be scared to paint it. But I think that's like one of the cool things about 40K is it is such like an expansive crazy universe. You can fit anything in it. And it could work. Like it could be a completely grim dark. It could be like, I don't want to say a rom-com, but like there's very, it would be hard to find like a theme that just would not fit in 40K. Just write something that's cool. It'll work.

They do children's books for 40K? apparently they did apparently they're actually good oh really apparently they're genuinely decent like I had heard that they did them but I was like there's no way that works I'm pretty sure it opens up with like the kids chairs yeah I think like the kids parents or something like killed by like a death mark or something like that and then they're like trying to get away I don't I might be a little bit wrong on that one but there's definitely a necron attack one and it goes along with that concept I saw one it's called uh plague of the nerds Nurglings, and it's a bunch of kids fighting the force of Nurgle. That's so funny to think about because they are so dead.

All right. Well, hey, anything can work. There's a thing that, now, I may be taking this one too, literally, but super often in the openings of Warhammer. So they talk about the Imperium and they talk about how it stretches over a million worlds. And that's said, and I don't know if it's just being hyperbole to kind of like show the granness of the Imperium. But if there were actually a million, genuinely a million colonized imperial planets, I would believe that. Well, space is big. Space is huge.

Yeah. You cannot comprehend it. And at that point, it does make it to the point where like, I mean, without, I mean, we're not going too deep into spoilers here in this particular stream. There's spoilers? For space marine two. Don't, I don't want to go with two spoilers, but like one of the planets you go on. is called a burial world. And a burial world is literally just an entire planet whose whole purpose is to bury people

because it's the highest honor you can get is to have your body buried. Instead of like ground in the ditch to be eaten by the works or whatever. Or ground up in corpse starch or something. Like that it's an entire world dedicated to burying people who are like heroes. And that's just kind of,

I don't know, it's kind of like such a, you think it's such a waste. But in reality like it's something about, um, the video. video game Warhammer storylines. Sure.

You using the term spoiler for any of them is really funny. Because as a non-Warhammer like lore nerd, as somebody who's just like, ha ha, space marine hit the bug. The plots of every single Warhammer game, except for maybe Rogue Trader, are always exactly the same. They're the same every time. Did you know that chaos is bad news? Listen, Listen, Pat. Listen, Pat.

All right, we've had a week. All right. All right. Our opinions on Space Marine 2 are not taking great. So we're going to scoot like, I'm with you, brother, but we're going to smooth right past that. I checked out part of your review. And I happened to click on the moment that I would disagree with the most, which was. Like, there's a moment where you say, hey, they would never be able to do this.

They would be atomized the instant they tried it. And I'm like, but it's cool, though. So that's that was cool, right? That was partially me, me misspeaking a little bit too. Apparently, the, uh, the devs have confirmed that it was not what I thought it was. And it was actually like pocket dimension. Oh, cool. Whatever.

And like a Q&A or whatever, which I mean, you write enough. You just keep writing more. The rule of cool. It did look cool. The entire thing looked cool. That's for certain. Oh, yeah. That whole thing looked cool.

But anyway, yeah, have you read many Warhammer novels? I've read zero pages of zero Warhammer novels. Okay. Very often, because we talk about this a bit like Rule of Cool, I very often when I recommend people Warhammer books, I never recommend them the best ones because I think the best ones require a bit of like for like knowledge. That's probably true.

But all the ones I do recommend are almost always just, hey, this is already established property, but with Warhammer code of paint, like Mission Impossible or James Bond or Blade Runner. Um, and it helps a lot with that kind of stuff. It's, it's, uh, I had a moment where I was like, I think I, you know, Warhammer's cool. I want to maybe dive into that. Maybe I'll take a look at and more Warhammer. and then I typed into Google and I said how do I start reading Warhammer and Google sped out this picture.

Oh no. I was going to say it's the Horacee picture isn't it? It's the it's the 50 plus book that you need a guide to read through. It sure is. It's sure. Don't start with the Horace heresy book. I saw that and I was like, you know what? Maybe I'm going to go back. Maybe I'm going to go back to reading One Piece, huh? I hate that image and I love that image Because that image perfectly encapsulates the stupidity But I mean if you were to read the entire Horace heresy You probably shouldn't need that image You just read an order Yeah

And like Shai said like We we jump from like what Shai says book 54 Is one of the ones we started on And then we jump to like the first one And it's like like are they all connected? Sure But I don't think you need to read all of them

in a very specific, well, maybe some of them, but like you can jump around. Well, you need to read the ones that are like direct sequels to one another in a row, I assume. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We read, what was it, book 36, which I think is the first heretic. The first heretic.

And you don't need to read the Horace Harris, or the Horace Rising, the first one, to be able to appreciate the first heretic. I think it's really fascinating because I look at this, and what I think I understand what you're saying, because I think I could sum up the Horace heresy in like four sentences. Right?

You probably could. Like the emperor of mankind is a really bad father. Horace didn't like that and got all that chaos juice. Big war. Horace dead emperor in the chair. Like...

Yeah. I mean, that is the TLDR version of it, right? And then at some point, someone said, do you want to take one of those sentences and stretch it over 200,000 words? And a lot of people were like, yeah, actually. Yeah, well, I mean, that's also one of the things. The Warhammer community loves all of the little details, right? I want to know what Horace was thinking right before he almost, I want to know every little iota, right?

We want all of the details. We want all of the nitty, gritty stuff. So, yeah. Why not? Why not? Span over 200,000 books that are, generally speaking, all pretty good. And then it feeds back in itself. Well, well, um, oh, sorry, after you.

No, no, no, I'm, I'm just, let's want to say they're all pretty good. I said generally. That's a lot of crap in it. Generally speaking. But I mean, I've been told, I mean, well, the first book, Horace Rising, as we know, D.K. Is phenomenal. Fantastic. Not just a good Warhammer book, just a good book.

And yeah, that's, yeah, that's definitely shy makes a good point. You can read bloodlines and think, oh, it's a cool cyberpunk sci-fi novel. without knowing what 40K is. But if you do, you're like, oh my God, I know why they're having troubles with supplies because the Sycadryx's maledictum. One of the,

bloodlines is literally like Blade Runner. It's just a rate. There's no space Marines, no Zenos, it's just a cop. And he's dealing with like a noble family's missing, um, uh,

daughter, I think. Yeah. And it's, it's, like, it's maybe one of my favorite 40K books. It's phenomenal.

So they're like, oh yeah, they have supply issues. Like, oh yeah, well, we know the supply issues are because, the galaxy split in half.

But, you know, life goes on. So interesting. You know, you said something there that's interesting because it makes me think about the video that Shai put out, which in Space Marine 2, there's like a weird issue in that there's not one civilian in the entire game. There's not one normal person in the whole fucking game. There's, you have, you have serfs. Anyway, my point being past that is that like, I have played the 40K video. I played a damn near half of the 40K video games.

There's a million that I have right. Wow. I played a lot of them. I think they're cool. Even if I don't get that far into them. But like, I think Rogue Trader is the only one that even addresses the fact that normal people actually live in this setting. Rogue Trader's great.

Rogue Trader, what it did for nobility in terms of the 40K aesthetic is unprecedented. I felt so stupid, dude, because I, Rogue Trader was coming out and I'm like, oh yeah, people need to buy things. Yeah. Citizensy need to buy things. But like Space Marine like games and space marine like, you know, iconography paints a lot of the setting as like a total fascist dictatorship, like military complex that like every single person is in the army or in a factory or whatever.

DK. and Shai, I don't know if you guys use TikTok at all. I'm obsessed with it. It's a dying app for a dying world. No, I've literally never logged into TikTok. Okay, so there is a big old meme going on with Space Marine clips where it's somebody made an AI-generated cover of I'm still standing with a space marine voice. Where the guy, it is a Space Marine like screaming the lyrics of I'm still standing to people's clips. because it's really funny and whatnot. Sure. The core appeal of Warhammer and the Space Marines

is this very specific moment from an Elder Scrolls trailer where a human fighter beats the piss out of a full party of people. Oh, yeah. regular big human fighter specifically to the music of someday love will find you. Yeah. And that's Warhammer's appeal, which is like, listen,

we got rat dudes, we got chaos freaks, we got elves, we got fucking orcs, we got zombies, we got skeletons, we got vampire lords, we got Tomb Kings, we got vampire pirates, right? And I'm like a normal guy with like a normal gun and a normal sword. And I'm going to hit them.

Real hard. Yeah. And then 40K is like, you know, expands that further and further and further. And it's like, well, they have to be really big. And, you know, who's the most powerful guy in the world? The emperor of mankind, even while dead is the greatest dude to ever fucking, aliens quiver and fear of his skeleton. And at some point, I'm playing roeful.

Trader and they're talking about the nobility and all the shit like oh yeah no people have to live in the setting That's that's the great part about the nobility is that's part of the reason I like bloodlines they do a lot of that But the noble class in 40k is like they always they always live at the top of those spires in the hive worlds you see like they they literally live above the clouds and they cannot even see the peasants And that's half of what rogue trader is and it was really cool to watch, especially because one of the first side missions you get in that game is like, hey, the lower decks are revolting. Abelard kill the poor. And that's just like one of the options you can do is like, yeah.

Rogue Trader, our families are freezing to death because you're saving like money on air conditioning. And it's like that kind of sucks. Kill them. Like that's just how it happens. I wish I could play more of Rogue Trader, but that game has the Alcat problem. Yeah, where Act three onwards is like barely functioning. Not that problem.

Oh. It's a larger problem. So Alcat does this thing. So they did the Pathfinder to two Pathfinder games and now they do Rogue Trader. Where they will add, it's a long narrative RPG that they are adding bits and pieces that go in random places for like five years after it comes out. Oh. So like I'm playing Pathfinder, Wrath of the Righteous right now. They are teasing four years after its release.

Hey, we're going to improve the gold dragon path. So if you're playing it, wait, if you're playing Gold Dragon or play it again. Like, these are massive 100-hour-long games. Wow. So they're just putting in something for like, oh, hey, we've updated the chapter one thing. Hope you're not 80 hours in and on chapter 16. Dude, there are two season passes for Wrath of the Righteous. And one of them adds a character that joins your party in Act 1.

in the second season pass. Ah, that's a lot. Rogue Trader and I'm like, I will love to play Rogue Trader in six years. In seven years when all the season passes come out. More expansions and side story and six extra party members. I also unfortunately had the huge problem of not being a fully voice-acted game directly after Baldersgate 3

basically blew everyone's pants off. Yeah, that's the whole reason I couldn't super get into Rogue Trader is because I played so much Baldersgate 3 that I was like, oh God, this is what a CRPG should be like. No, it's an old-fashioned CRPG, man. Yeah, and like Rogue Trader is really good, but I was like, shit, I just want more Barnerskate 3.

Damn it. Well, you're not going to get that again for like 10 years. Yeah, like games like. like that don't just come along. That's like a rarity. But I was like, God, that blew me away so much. And I'm just like, why can't I play Rogue Trader anymore? I played the beta and I loved it. Why don't I love it now? And I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no, my brain has been negatively affected. Like Warhammer voice acting tends to be like super unique in its level of bombasticness.

It's so good. It's, it's, everyone is an angry British zeal. It's fantastic. ridiculous. That's actually one of the things that I find really enjoyable about like Dark Tide. Dark Tide has its problems. Don't get me wrong. It's definitely been fixing them a bit more recently. They're putting out a big, big patch in a week. Yeah, yeah, the itemization update.

I'm actually really excited for that one. I think it's going to, it looks like it's going to be pretty good. But like Dark Tide, one thing it did insanely well was it did that bombastic voice acting to a T. When they added all the new abilities and I got on my. guardsmen like shouting at the top of their lungs. Like this is peak, peak 40K concepts. And it's,

it's hard to pull off, you know? Like how the entire universe is hard to pull off. Just everything is a factory and a church and everyone is a religious zealot under like a horrible dictatorship that hates everyone. While also, you know, having a bunch of lobotomized slaves do all your jobs and the worst cable

management you've ever seen with 40,000 candles. It's a really strange setting Because like it is definitely a setting of like just write more Just write just write more And you'll you can write as much as you want And just add as much as you want Just write more But all of that old stuff

Yeah that's sacrosanct No this is how a space marine fucking acts Space Marines aren't going to be sitting around the campfire Telling jokes Ever Unless you were in the Horace heresy That's true than you have warrior lodges where they're getting drunk together and being bros and yeah but uh dark tide

probably has um obviously rolling back to dark tide that battle barge where you just start off is like the most peak 40k design ever like just that little mission area with the big screen in the middle and like the scope of it all and you're looking at in the galaxy you've got all the servitors rolling around it's such oh well go ahead i'm going to say something controversial Uh-oh. Uh-oh. About Warhammer. So I think Space Marine 2 and Space Marine 1 are fucking awesome.

I really like Darktide. And I think Rogue Trader is really cool. I also love the Dawn of War series, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. Soffening the blow. Let's go. I also like Mechanicus and I'm playing another run of Chaosgate right now. Okay.

Classic Reddit post. You got to make sure you have your allegiance. Those games are hard as fuck. They're really, really difficult. I think Warhammer in games and also like animation and TV and whatnot might have a broader appeal to the wider audience if it wasn't so obsessed with playing as a Space Marine chapter or the Imperial Guard. Like the Warhammer games in particular are obsessed. with the Imperium of Man. Like, it is like nine times out of ten.

Your primary, like, protagonist force is the Imperium. And I'm well aware that they represent like a disproportionate amount of, like, the tabletop, um, like, armies. Yeah. But like, it's so much. Like, Shai is asking if I played the Dawn of War Retribution orcs campaign. No, I haven't. I actually just got Don of War II working last night, uh,

because it doesn't like Windows 11 or, uh, multi-class. course. Like, I'm thinking like blood, teeth, and shootas as like an example. Oh, that was so good, so short. And how like, even though I don't like that game as much as bolt gun, I appreciate its existence more than bolt gun. Because bolt gun is, what if you were a space marine and you shot dudes? Yeah. What if you were an ultra- ultramarine and just, you know, we're killing greater demons all on your own and yeah, yeah. I'm well aware we're never going to be playing as a tyrannid as a main character.

That's probably not going to happen. Hey, you give me a game where I can play as like a swarm lord. I'd be very happy. But like Mechanicus 2's big update is they're going to add the ability to play as the Necron. I'm extremely hyped about that. It's like, oh, I'm the Necron. I never get to play as the Necron. I got to play as the Necron.

Everybody loves the Necrons. Twice Dead King and Infinite the Divine. Like Necrons have like five books in total and they're all like, like, B plus or higher, like mostly A's and S tiers. They're incredible. And I think I... One of these two old guys kissed. I do agree.

I do agree that that obviously like they want to do lots of imperial stuff because humans and etc. And obviously space marines are a very iconic looking thing. And most popular. I do feel like despite its issues, Rogue Trader was the biggest departure from that kind of thing. Because you weren't a guardsman. You were a noble.

You were like the nobility. And you had squad make. Hawk to Eldar in that game, right? Multiple kinds of Eldar. Like with your words and not your gun? Yeah. There's a little bit of gun. Yeah, you know, but like, you get to watch him steal a son.

Like, there's a really famous, very old, completely intellectually dishonest, doom review from 93 that, um, John Carmack and John Romero hated. And Tim Rogers brings up in his doom review that's like four and a half hours long. You should watch that. the Tim Rogers. You should watch Tim Rogers. And in this Doom review, it says, what if you could talk to the demons, though? Wouldn't that be more interesting?

And it's like a completely ridiculous thing to say in 1993 when Doom was like the creation of the first person shooter. Yeah. But in Warhammer, actually though, I actually do want to play more games in which I can talk. I want to talk to an orc about anything. anything. Well, there are a couple of books where orcs have conversations with people that you might like them.

Okay, well, guess what? You've successfully sold me better on reading any Warhammer book than anything I've ever seen before. What was it, Pricky, De Big Dhaka that had the... The Big Dhaka's main characters, it's called The Big Dhaka. The main characters are an Ork Warboss and a Dark Eldar Arcon. Those of you, it's entirely Drukari and orcs, and it's a banger. Yeah. Yeah, there's good stuff there.

No, I mean, full stop. I, I, I, I 100% agree. I guess, like we talked earlier, GW is a little, you know, they're a little evil. They're a little lots of stuff, but they specifically are just, they're, they have like a new script on their IP. They're terrified of it going anywhere. And from talking with a couple of folks who will remain nameless. There's a lot of things that you may have expected to occur or whatever that don't because GW is like, nope, they don't act that way.

It doesn't work that way. You can't do it that way. They're very harsh on their IP, which is for sometimes better. But I think at the moment, especially with the up and up, maybe a little bit worse. I feel like you need to be a little bit more flexible. It's really fascinating that they're so strict on stuff like that, but they're not strict on like quality. So, like, I can't. speak to books because I haven't read them.

But the, I would like to play a Warhammer game experience runs the entire 10-point scale of quality. Like, there is some fucking garbage that you can play that has the Warhammer name on it. Yeah. Like,

like Don of War III. And then there's great shit, some of the best games you've ever played, like Don of War II. Yeah. I mean, people don't even remember that there's like 19 fucking

like car a digital card game mobile apps right now. Yeah the amount of like mobile gotcha cash grab war hammer games that are on those. The game that's invaded my phone ever since I talked about Space Marine. Every ad I get is for Tacitus

or whatever the fuck it's called. Tacticus? Tacticus? Did you know Titus the Ultramarine coming to Tacticus? Yeah. Did not know that. I just know there are like a million of them. Like anytime I go into the app store, it's like

There's like 50 of them. And I actually clicked on it. And I was like, if this looks like a cool game, I will play it. And then it's like it's a complete mobile garbage. I was like, yeah. Yeah. It's actually, it's one of the reasons why I was. It's so weird that they've got such a new script on their IP, but they'll let shit like that slide.

Just do mobile cash grab garbo. So it makes sense actually. So there's a video that I've been referencing for weeks and weeks and weeks. It's by a content creator called RaceVick, R-A-Y-C-E-V. Oh, we love RaceV-R-V-R-V-R-V-R-V. Friend of the channel. We've had him on before. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Okay. He's great. He has an incredible video called I'm jealous of Warhammer. Yeah, I watched that one. And in that video, he describes that he's a massive, massive huge fucking mark for Mass Effect. He's so into Mass Effect. But Mass Effect has three and a half games and like six books and a comic.

And that's it. Yep. And like, in general, the games are excellent. The books are terrible. And the comics fine. And then he looks over, it's like, well, what if I was into Warhammer? Oh, my God. Like, you, he brings up, like, probably the best example, which is you go, like, you type the word Warhammer into the steam search bar.

And you get, like, a ton of stuff. God, I'm scrolling. I'm scrolling. I'm scrolling. I'm scrolling. I'm scrolling. I'm scrolling. Like, like, there's over a hundred results there.

Right? Yeah. And, like, yeah, they range in quality. But they're all. systematically consistent, and you will find a good one in any genre you want to play. Yeah. Yeah. Do I want to play an RPG?

Here's Rogue Trader. Do I want to play a side-scroller? Here's Blotief and Shooters. Do I want to play Doom? Here's bolt gun. Do I want to play a prestige multiplayer co-op game? Here's Space Marine. Do I want to play Left for Dead?

Here's Dark Tide. Do I want to play ship commander? You'll play Gothic? It's Gothic? Yeah. Battleflict Gothic. Do I want to play Xcom?

You can play an Xcom mod in 94 on original Xcom. You can play ChaosGate. You can play Mechanicus. You can play Mechanicus 2. There's no fighting game. There's no fighting game. Fucking do it.

Although you could make a banger of a fighting game with characters from Warhammer. The only problem with a Warhammer fighting game would be the problem that I've been talking about with 2XCO, the League of Legends fighting game, is that you're dealing.

with a roster of potentially like 400 fucking units and no matter what units you put in the Warhammer fighting game, everyone's gonna be fucking mad as shit that they didn't get the unit they wanted to get in there. True, they didn't get their favorite character.

Also, the power scaling would be totally off. It doesn't matter. It's a fighting game. It doesn't matter. It's a fighting game. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.

Other people don't know. You could put a fucking, you could put, so a Warhammer fighting game is a three on three fighting game like Marvel. And that way you can add shit like a, here and it's Swarm Lord and have them be the one character that's a big body character versus three normal characters. You totally do it. Yeah. Um, side note, it's an interesting thing that

we talked about there because you mentioned all the various kinds of Warhammer games, but for me, with the exception of Rogue Trader and like two campaigns and Donna War, the one thing that we haven't gotten is a massive narrative experience that actually rivals the books. I saw a post, I think it was like a Tumblr post I've ever read, which is quote, there are two kinds of 40K books. Space man shoot bad guys with big gun and meditations on the dehumanizing nature of war

and the futility of mutual kindness in the face of suffocating oppression and prejudice by Ascarazoth, the child flenser. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think one of the reasons why I was so harsh on the Space Marine II review and stuff is because I kind of was thinking I was like, this is the time.

Like, it's going to be shoot man and shoot gun. Don't get me wrong. But this might be the time where we get shoot man shoot gun with like real story. No, here's the real story. Are you ready? And I was wrong and I was sad.

The core narrative thread of Space Marine 2. What if Leandro's wasn't a little bitch? Oh yeah. I mean, it's not wrong. Gad's real is just Leandro's, but like, cool. Yeah, he's Leandro's for 60% of the game. He's like, what if I took this stick out my ass? Yeah, exactly, because he totally is.

And he's just like, oh, hey, I understand you. Cool. We're bros now, as we should be, instead of, like, I'm turning you into the Inquisitor. The other theme is that the bigger and older you get, the cooler you are. Like, I don't know who Calgar is, but he seems cool. Oh, yeah. They sucked him off so hard in that scene. But he was so cool.

I know, but like, I'm just imagining someone who just doesn't know who Calgar is and being like, why is this dude getting a slow mode scene? I had no idea who that guy is. And then everyone is like, oh, it's Jesus Christ descending from that. I know about Calgary. And even I was like, ooh, I like that. I don't even like Ultramarans and ooh, he's so cool. And I asked my chat, like, oh, is that the prime arc? And they're like, no, he's a captain.

And I'm like, he's the chapter master. Yeah, he's chapter master. is so, it's so, I don't know, I've gotten, I've gotten burned by Star Wars too much for my, holy fuck, it's glip, it's glup, shito. You know what? And so I was like, uh, I wasn't as big on the, on the Borbia scrunculus thing, but it was, um, you know what? Star Wars is a great example, because Star Wars has, like, because you mentioned, like, it's a little frustrating how strict Warhammer can be with its, like, its narrative and how, how, like, rock solid, everything has to be. Like, you want to look at Star Wars and see what happens when the people in charge go,

do whatever. Who cares? And it's like on the main pieces. Oh, yeah. And like all the fall off bits from that. And like, like, they threw, they threw away their entire expanded universe to start redoing it again worse than the first time. Yeah, significantly worse, unfortunately. Yeah, I mean, 100%, but obviously I don't, you know, there's a middle ground. clearly. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.

I don't want them to be like, ah, go for it. Ryan Johnson, do your thing. I don't care. I would, I would like, I would like a little.

I'm going to say some else controversial. Oh, oh, we got last Jedi thoughts here. Okay, here's the last Jedi thought. And this is a thought that I've talked to a woolly over at Woolly versus and also on the Castle

Super Beast, a thing. We talked about it right after the movie came out. If last Jedi had ended when, um, Adam Driver, holds his hand out and says let's go make something different and it held on Ray going I don't know what to do

and the movie had ended right there it would have been a way better movie because at least you'd walk out going I wonder if they're going to do something cool with Star Wars yeah and then the movie spends the rest of its runtime going we're not going to do anything cool with Star Wars we promise yeah but then you saw the casino planet in there

and I just don't do that the casino planet oh no I got to That movie is begging for a Phantom Edit. You could just, you could just cut and cut and cut and cut and make a way better movie out of it. Yeah. I wonder how many people got into Warhammer as an offshoot of Star Wars. I feel like, I feel like there's a lot of people who got into, yeah, I think there's a lot of people who got into Warhammer because they were disenfranchised with Star Wars. Yo, what if Luke Skywalker wasn't a pussy?

Yeah. His name was Titus and he was huge. Yeah, massive. But I don't know. I wonder how many people got into Warhammer just because, oh, it's cool sci-fi setting like Star Wars and just, hey, we just like both. Not necessarily like disenfranchised or anything. Just, oh, hey, it's sci-fi thing. I like sci-fi thing.

Maybe. Just like my Star Wars. I mean, Star Wars does have Andor, which is the greatest thing since sliced bread, so. All right. I think that, I think Warhammer, 40K specifically, has a really, like, incredible, like, gotcha point of interest that I think more of its stuff needs more of its

visual media needs to take advantage of where all they need to do is put like a space marine next to a guardsman or any normal human because people always ask to say well why is that guy so big and then and that's the rabbit thing modified to be that way yeah yeah that's

that's fair that's the they got you now they do and hey in space marine too that happens a lot when you're standing next to the guard. I mean, when you're standing next to that guard captain and she comes up to your kneecap. And it's like, what the?

Like, I knew space Marines per bit were big, but why so big? Yeah, but then they go a step further and like, guess what? You're an even bigger space marine. You're a primaris. You rebuilt this way. And it's like, oh, wow. And yeah, I imagine a lot of people are falling down this

sort of lore rabbit hole, just starting it, why is Titus so big? What is the things on his head? Why was he all carved up at the beginning? What's a primaris? How is it different from a space? And it's just, yeah, there's probably a lot of people Googling a lot of different words they saw on Space Marine 2.

Space Marine 2 has a really other good thing. It's like, man, these regular soldier dudes keep yelling about Cadya a bunch. Hold on, let me talk about it. Oh, yes, yes. I wonder how many new pings the word Cadia has gotten on Google. That's fair.

What's it to do with Katie? What's it? Cadia stands where Katie, what is that? Types in, types in Katie in the search bar. Did you mean dust? Oh. I mean, thanks actually, but I am. I can see that happening.

It's like, oh, what's Katie? It just shows a picture of like nothing. Like, oh, okay. Some cool ass shit. That's what it is. That's what it is, yeah. I can't find that image. There's like an image of the custodians.

And it's like a custodian and a space marina a guardsman. They're all staying next to like an old 40s propaganda. a photo and it's like join the Imperium and the custodian is like just he's just like a train right next to the guardsman because he's that big. Yeah.

I feel like for a lot of people yeah because or 40K was just the height chart. Do you remember the there's like the height chart where it's like a guardsman, a space marine, a primary space marine, a custodian, a primark, a dreadnought. It's just

the, it's just, yeah, Vulcan. It's just the height chart. And that's how people get into it. It's really funny because in Space Marine, the whole scale starts to fall apart because of the character you're playing as. Like, in one of the co-op missions, you fight a Swarmlord. And it's pretty fucking big. Hive tyrant, but yeah. A hive tyrant, my mistake.

I'm actually. Sorry. My mistake. But no, this is important because the size of those two things is different, I assume. But you find a high time. It's like a named. It's like, hey, a Space Marine captain versus like, Marius, Calgar. So you find a hive tyrant.

and it's pretty fucking big. It's huge. But then you have to remember that you're taller than all the tanks in the game. And so then you have to multiply how big that thing would be to you.

It would be the size of a building. Yeah, to just like a regular guards person. It would be like almost a skyscraper, yeah. Yeah. Silly. Oh, there's the size chart. Thank you, Shire. What the fuck is that?

Is that the Adeptus on the little stilt man? Yeah. Yeah, it's a meme, but yeah. That is the size chart. Like, as far as the size charts go, that's exactly the one I was referring to without a shadow of a doubt. That stuff is always, it's always funny. But I also like the fact that when you kill the hive tyrant, they specifically are like, okay, three Marines would never take down a hive tyrant in their lives because this thing is insane. So they fuck it up super bad.

Yep. So they drop a pillar on it and blow it up. And then it's able to be defeated by three Marines. Let's stick a giant piece of rebar into his back. Yeah, missing an arm. Yeah, missing an arm. And it's like, okay, maybe now this will work. Yeah, that's a really good thing that they stole from like the From Software Games.

They're like, hey, you're fighting the biggest, baddest dragon that ever was. Now, granted, it's down to one leg and half a wing. But that's more than enough for the player character. Curse you. Yeah, because you're... Bair! Curs you, Bail! Because you're playing.

You're playing as like, you know, glip shito or whatever the fucking. Yeah, obviously. Whatever. Your character's always some like crappy dude. Mm-hmm. It's good stuff. I'm wondering now like, uh, like where, where people are going to be getting a lot into Warhammer recently.

Because obviously Space Marine 2 is the big one, but I'm kind of curious where they go from there. Because there's a, there is a massive disconnect between getting into the universe and getting into the hobby. Mm-hmm. And I don't, I don't think. I don't think anyone, and this is actually a thing I might consider trying to do in the future, is doing a proper introduction into the hobby. Like a full-on guide from start to finish.

So when you say the hobby, you mean... Buy in miniatures, painting them up, maybe playing the game. So there are so many impediments to that. There are so many. time, money, of course. Money is probably the big one, right? So for me and my perspective has been that like in the relatively recent, I feel that like the tabletop has not been superseded by anything else, but is no longer the de facto primary

Warhammer experience because there is now so much. Yeah, I would agree. Well, I guess it's hard for me to say because I'm not in the tabletop scene. So it's hard for me to be like... We're on the most popular Moorhammer podcast and half of the hosts are like, I don't even play the tabletop. Doesn't that just say everything? See, I make up for it. I make up for it because also I definitely don't think we're the most popular Warhammer podcast.

But it's just going with it. It also makes up for it because I play in like actual like big tournaments and stuff. So I play enough for the two of them combined. You play more than, you play more than enough for all three of us. Yeah. I love, I love the game a ton because it's,

it's this perfect combination of something that you almost never get in the kind of world that you have, which is the ability to properly combine gameplay and narrative in a way that is just genuinely incredibly fun. And you get to say like, hey, look, there's my eradicators that I spent. tirelessly painting and kit bashing. And I just watch them roll super hot and take down a chaos night.

And that's the coolest feeling in the world. I actually made myself some chaos nights. And I'm going to do this huge like epoxy resin like river of blood beneath their bases. But I have a little pile. And in that pile, any, any person I beat in a game, I'm going to take the head of, of whatever that faction is. and like source however like a bits whatever person

and then paint that little head up and put it in the pile and so like if I win yeah that's what Chaos Night looks like if I win it's like oh a custodian game cool I'll take a custodian guard head put it in the pile and like it'll it's almost

like a tracker of the games I played I don't know it speaks to me I think okay that's pretty cool there is a huge amount of value and what you described is super fucking cool and but as I am a video game man who runs a video game podcast and streams video games

and that's my primary point of contact for Warhammer every single day I hear someone talk about the tabletop I just go you know what I bet would do gangbusters putting the fucking tabletop on my fucking computer and you'll say oh it can't be done I'm like people already fucking do it yeah and what's the

Was it Moonbreaker? That does it really, really well? I love Moonbreaker so much. It's such a good game. I'm so sad that it's not doing well. But I also can't. You could do a 40K? That's so easily.

Why it's not doing well? There's a lot of reasons. Why? Because I don't know any of these fucking factions. Oh. This doesn't say Warhammer 40K Moonbreaker on it. It does not.

That's true. That's true. Games Workshop a request. Please go get unknown worlds. who made Moonbreaker and have them make you a tabletop variant of your game? So they're not going to do that until what we talked about at the beginning of the podcast happens, which is the 3D printer apocalypse. When that starts to look inevitable, then you're going to get that.

And I feel that in my core because they've already taken step one to that, which is giving Warhammer to Creative Assembly to do the total war games. Like, the total war games, it's not the tabletop, but it's way closer than I ever thought they'd let go. Yeah. See, if they were intelligent, they would do it now before the 3D printer apocalypse, because then people would play the game on the tabletop version of the game and be like... Why do I need to 3D print this shit? I got the fancy digital one with the camera and... No, no, no, they would instead be like, oh, dang, I play in this game.

This is really, really fun. I want to buy myself a pack of eradicators and they go to their local games workshop. because they're Jimmy They'llge people Like it's drain simulator And they're Jimmy Jiz maker And they're super excited And then you know

And then when they release new models Like in real life They can they put that in the season past Like games workshop If we want to be like a moral We can do it Like we can be good at this Maybe in like literally 20 years

They do move that fast Yeah Yeah I would love the Moonberger thing too Because like Moonburger has that great system where you can literally gray out your minis and actually like paint them and it's it actually handles

painting your minis it's like moonbreaker is like the most upsetting game I've seen in a long time because it's like oh my god this is exactly what I want just not this yeah it's just I want this but I want it for 40K the voice acting that game is incredible too oh I bet it's great but I never even bothered to play it because it's not for Warhammer.

It's like, I played so much Moonbreaker. I made a video. I loved that game. The voice acting, it's all from like famous VAs. It's so good. But you're right,

it's not Warhammer. And I kept waiting for like a mod or something. That would be really ambitious mod. It would be a very ambitious mob. People have done crazier. And like people, someone, like I'm looking at the top negative review

on Moonbreaker right now. Game feels abandoned. At the time of this review, it's been half a year since any kind of update. No new content since the last community tournament in April. Unless you have a friend to play with you, you're probably going to be stuck playing a single player mode that feels tacked on. So much potential, but even the Discord is silent. And like, I look at that and I go, that's totally fair and a massive bummer for a game that you would play multiplayer. And then I think about like, like Warhammer games get support forever.

Like, in general, like they get supported for a long time. Like, the Space Marine 2 roadmap is two years. long. The first year is adding things that probably should have been in the game to begin with, like ultra-white support. That's weird that they put that on the road, man. I mean, the game, the game was not

done. There's three multiplayer maps. Three. They're good maps, though. Thank God. They're good. The PVP is incredible. It is very fun. The PVP is the best part of the game by a country mile. I think it's insane. I will actually play a lot. Can you imagine

if it had three maps and one of those maps was shit. Oh. Yeah, that'd be really bad. It'd be a deal breaker. Disaster. Yeah. The maps are good.

The maps are good. I'm going to ask you guys, do you think when that roadmap says new enemy, they mean a single new tyrannid? Or do they mean? It's a single new enemy probably. I hate to say it because I would have loved it if it was like, yeah, by the way, it's the necrons. I really want someone to convince me to be excited that they're going to add a new faction to that game.

co-op in space Marine 2. I was doing the operations mode. But I was playing as I painted my boys the Blood Ravens because I really like them from Dawn of War. They're the only chapter that speaks to me as the loyalists. And then I noticed that there was a

death guard color that I could apply to my boy. So I just made a loyalist death guard. And he looked kind of green and it wasn't the same without all the goo. Right? To which some dude in chat goes, you know there's a loyalist color scheme for the deathguard before they fucking got all gross.

And I went, there is? Truth, there is. Yeah. And I was like, look up, death guard 30K. I'm like, okay. Pre-heresy. And I find the white, green, and bronze death guard look, which is like technically the dusk raiders, I think. Something like that, sure.

But I'm like, oh, and that's a really cool color scheme. I've never seen that before. Yeah. I'll throw that on my boys. And I did. I'm like, oh, I'm more invested now because some guy told me some detail. You know? Some guy told me some random detail.

I would have never known before. And now I am. Completely invested in these boys again. What were the odds of me typing in Deathguard 30K on my own? Nothing. It was literally zero chance. I don't, I want to say it's zero because if you just Google Deathguard, right? You're just like, oh, I want to look up something about the Death Guard.

There's a chance that you might have gone to the Wiki and the Wiki might have Oh, this is what the deathguard were before. There's a death guard 30s. It's a small chance. Right there. It's the third image. Okay, so it was possible. Yeah, it was absolutely possible.

Maybe it might not have the highest percentage, but I definitely possible. Because the guy told me. Absolutely. You wouldn't have, why would you have looked up death guard, right? Because, yes, sure, sure. That's true. They are very cool. Morty.

They're the only green faction I've ever liked. I don't tend to go for green. Okay. Yeah, I don't usually put a specific color. What about the orcs? No, the orcs are all green. I mean, like, like, if there's an orc faction that was green on green, I'd be like, no, I want the orcs that are, like, black on green or red on green. You want the red ones because they go faster.

They do go faster. I'm always angry about D.K.'s the orc voice. Why is that? She's just really good at it. I don't think it's that good. He's just really good at it. I don't know. It's just the sound of regular British person makes.

Yeah. Yeah, and I can't make it. So, like, it's pretty cool. You do one, Pat. Let me see yours. Arnard, good eye, Mike. That's Australian. Is it?

Yes. Yeah, that's a cat-achshund. I can't believe that you've gone to Australian. I'm not here to fuck spiders. I said you say we fuck spiders. I said I'm not here to fuck spiders. Oh, fair play.

Here's a very important point that I think is. extremely important that matters the most. Space Marines are literally just color swaps from the average user eye, which makes it very easy to customize your chapter in the game, and everyone just wants to be like, I want to play my white scars, and then

you can, and that's great. Yeah. You know what else is cool? Isn't that the whole reason the second and 11th whatever's are like lost is because you're just like, oh, hey, I don't like any of them. I'm going to make my own. Hey, this is my second Legion.

Not, bro, because they felt a chaos, dude. Oh, they felt a chaos, or it could be that, too. It could be whatever you want, right? They were, they were removed. They were expunged from everything, dead and forgotten. For a reason that I think Rogel Doorn asked Malcador about at Maccador's like, Dorn, you shut your mouth, which is kind of crazy because it's Maccador. And Dorn was like, is it for kit bashing?

And then Maccadour nodded his head once and then moved on. said nothing more. Dorn would be the Kit Bash guy. Like having having the primary army have like a really simple like simple by comparison like armor design

that allows like beginners to paint them any color they want and there's like already like what 40 presets like is a really like simple way to get your foot in the door because like painting the fucking orks or the dark Eldar or the nids is going to be a real

step up from painting my blueberries. It's also cool because, like, you know, you're painting your salamanders. Here's a salamander. Looks cool. Green Marine. But then you also have like a salamander's character, which really goes into the salamanders. I'm on fire, bro.

Yeah. You can really up and down it the best one. Holy shit. That's a good amount of chapters there. Yep. Well, there's chapters. There's successor chapters for the chapters. There's, so yeah, there's a lot you could do.

Anyway, this is good stuff. Yeah, this was a very enjoyable time. Good talk, folks. Anything left that we'd like to kind of think about before we wrap it up? I think they'd have a lot more success with Space Marine Chicks if they just put out a big picture of a big lady stepping on a guy and then the freaks would help fight the weirdos.