Adulting - #28 Beauty and The Taboo with Alexia Inge

Episode Date: March 10, 2019

This week I speak to Alexia Inge, co-founder of the award winning Cult Beauty. They have just introduced their new Sexual Pleasure and Wellness and we discuss beauty, beauty standards, sexual pleasure and how they intersect! As always I hope you enjoy!! https://www.cultbeauty.co.uk/?utm_source=referral&utm_medium=Instagram&utm_campaign=CBOENONE Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. Hi guys and welcome back to Adulting. This week I'm joined by Lex. Hello, hello. Hello. Lex is the founder of Cult Beauty, which is... I'm the co-founder. Oh, co-founder, sorry. Do you want to give us a nice overview of what Cult Beauty with Jess about 10 years ago. And we started it as frustrated consumers, frustrated obsessives about beauty.

And we just found that as consumers, we weren't really being catered for. I found that I was being oversold products or I always felt quite intimidated going into department stores and it should be the other way around because it's basically a sweet shop yeah I mean it should be the most exciting thing ever and we just wanted to build a beauty hall of fame that you could shop so that was the the original idea is cult products from all over the world that you could 100% trust yeah best that you could possibly find in an online store it's so amazing and it has got that cult factor to it because it is different from any other kind of industry as you say like within the beauty world it's not got that kind of very commercialized

side to it it is all about finding the perfect niche for you. And you're saying that even 10 years ago, you felt like that space was somewhere that was very pushy and heavy. And how do you think that's changed now with the rise of social media and the way that we buy and sell? Oh, the consumer has changed completely. We've all become these massive skin intellectuals, you know, we, when I, when, when we first were starting Cult Beauty, I was doing all the customer

service side of things. And the sort of questions that you were getting through then people would say, I have dry skin, what kind of moisturizer should i buy and now you get people calling up going so which aha is in that is that mandelic acid that glycolic acid what's the size of the molecule i kind of need to know like how deeply it's going to penetrate my epidermis and you're like um i am going to introduce you to the founder and she will be able to take you straight through exactly what she's used in the formulation. I mean, I've always been a complete beauty nerd and I studied biology at school and I just found it there was this big disconnect between what i knew about biology about biochemistry and what we were being sold in the the marketing of the time

it was always very much that kind of head patting marketing i call it sort of don't you worry your little head about the science um and just buy the nice pretty packaging and keep doing it yeah please as much as you fancy um and it just it i was i was always asking questions and i well what's in it why why does it last all day is that a good thing yeah because i mean that's that's with the foundations that say last 48 hour foundation you're like um that's that's basically lacquer yeah that's that's not necessarily going to let your skin breathe um i mean stayability and breathability generally gonna be the same for some outfits that i have worn over the years as well i learned so much about beauty and changed my opinion of the beauty industry actually when I came on the Cult Beauty Retreat because I, from a feminist point of view, was kind of like starting to learn about feminism thinking, are these industries telling me that I'm not good enough the way that I am and I need to buy products to be better?

And I kind of had this skeptical view. And then Lex sat us down and we had this talk. This was last year actually. And I remember I think I asked you back then if you'd be interested in coming on this concept of a podcast that I had which I don't think existed and basically you were just like we take care of our health and we take care of our bodies by drinking lots of water and eating great food and we think about what we're putting in our bodies but we don't often think about what putting on our bodies and you suddenly just completely made me do a 180 about what I

realized beauty was because beauty is whatever part of the spectrum you want it to be whether that's like your moisturizer to your foundation but the point is that we should take just as much care because it is such a big part of our lives it doesn't have to be an oppressive thing it can actually be really liberating and that was a narrative that I hadn't seen I don't know if that's because a lot of industries are led up by men I think it's been it has been traditionally an oppressive thing because beauty was very much about social currency and a woman's worth in society so it was a it was your your worth and your beauty were very intrinsically linked and also there was this understanding that it had a best before date yeah and you were investing on

extending your best before date because that was all you had so that was a really horrible standpoint to come from but now beauty is about self-expression so it's what you choose to be like if you want to have a particular look if you want to go for that super glam insta glam look yeah or if you want to go for that kind of total grunge greasy hair and like paint like old nail varnish vibe it's it's totally fine wherever you want to come from yeah I love that and what what when you were coming in from beauty so you said you've always been kind of someone that's fascinated by it you love the biology but also you love you're really stylish person I feel like you've you because you went

to school near me didn't you and you were always into the music scene yeah and you're so like stylistically when when you were kind of coming into this industry you were quite into the music scene and like that kind of style how did you break into going into this business so I was working as a journalist as a fashion journalist um and then I went into branding and PR and so to move slightly from fashion into a broader lifestyle area and then I met Jess and she had this basic idea of cult beauty and it just sounded like something that was so um it spoke to me it spoke to my gut I was like I really want to be part of something yeah that changes um and an industry that that helps move the industry on and and help it evolve into something much more positive yeah and that has really happened and i'm not saying it was us but that has really happened in the last 10 years it's definitely been

helped by social media but the beauty industry has gone from what I described before into something supportive um it's become a cultural movement now um and it's actually you know the innovation that's coming the the cultural social and as well as as well as all the all the scientific innovation that's coming out of this industry is at the forefront of everything. Yeah. Well, 100%, especially with the movement towards gender neutrality and sexuality, it's now become, rather than your beauty, how much beauty you have gives you capital,

you can actually get your own currency from changing the way that you look or deciding that actually I'm going to express myself. And as you say, it's changed from being oppressive to giving people who perhaps felt like they were on the margins of society a space to explore and express yeah it's the rediscovery of the niche the celebration of the niche um whilst also not marginalizing the middle ground yeah so when so you've been 10 years doing this yes along the way how did, how did you break in? Because even cult in of itself means that, I guess, on a small scale,

it could have stayed quite small, but you've really become huge. I think, I mean, cult has grown up as its customers have come to understand what we stand for. And I think what we stand for hasn't changed, but the zeitgeist has. Yeah. I mean, we have always been really focused around the indie brands. Yeah.

Because I think, probably because I'm personally very attracted to indie brands and speaking directly with founders. And I think now we are in a time of founders because having a human being stand up and take responsibility for something is a very powerful thing in society today I mean we're all sort of dehumanized on the on the internet it's a very computer says no it's emailing out to god knows where are you going to

get a is anyone listening um and actually having somebody to stand up and have an opinion it might not be a popular one sometimes it very much isn't i'm thinking about our friend Gwyneth yeah you know occasionally she has um some very unpopular opinions but she is standing up to be counted. And I think it takes a lot of, a lot of courage to do that. You may or may not agree with with what she's standing up for. But I think that's where the power is. Oh, yeah. 100% I guess the idea of you got to stand for something or you stand for nothing. yeah and when you were so coming we do you think you were the only thing of itself like cult did it exist in a world that was very capitalist and corporate and yeah I mean we the idea of not selling full lines was was very

difficult for some brands they really didn't like it they said well that's just saying that the rest of the line is shit and i said you are such a pessimist that is elevating your core hero products yeah cult status yeah i mean you know people don't say when when you know when uh uh then they're entered into a beauty hall of fame that is there isn't that feeling that everyone else is is terrible it's like this is the price we have managed to actually create a product that that actually was good enough to be in a beauty hall of fame right and that doesn't downgrade the other products that upgrades your brand but as you say it's like that sweet shop idea it's pick and mix no one uses beauty products from just one brand anyway or you don't buy clothes from one shop they used to I mean people used to buy the same products that their mothers used and it was very much the regime you would buy into the whole

regime and that's something that I always struggled with because I'm massively fickle so the thought of doing that also I think people want to invest in areas that they feel are their good bits so whether it's your hair or your eyes or your butt you know people will you know you know you know which bit you really like about yourself generally people have at least one thing that you want to yeah it's so true and even with beauty and things that I will look at such different parts than my sister would and like we will choose things that we think are way more important to us or want to focus on when you were choosing like how your brand was going to work and how you're going to come forward did you come up against things kind of blockages and you were like no we don't want to do it that way because you've had to

you've gone against the grain quite a lot yeah I mean we've had to make some really uncommercial decisions um I think it's been really important to maintain our integrity all the way through and I think there's been times when we've been offered brands which that we knew would sell through the nose that we've actually turned down because they're not cult and they're not good enough um and i think that having that integrity at the core of what you do is essential and the minute that you stop that or ignore that you're you're failing yeah i think we're in a culture though that kind of business where because everything is so instantaneous people often make decisions

which is like what's going to get me the most capital right now yeah and there's a lot of pressure to do that as you get bigger um you have a lot more responsibility there's there's there's salaries to pay on a monthly basis but I think it think it's especially my job as the co-founder to keep that core reason that I started this in the first place. It was as a frustrated consumer. Why was I frustrated? Because lots of people were overselling products and they were being untrustworthy and I think that you know no matter how technology changes and society changes integrity and selling products that are good yeah is never going to go away it's never going to fall

out of fashion yeah that's the thing i think we get a bit i do get a bit fed up with like the capitalism and the consumerism but not really because we're always going to have to have stuff but it's this constant chaotic pushing of product after product that's just not helpful yeah and i think cult beauty's never really been necessarily about the new new new it's about good yes exactly quality so what is new though is your new what is it called sexual it is called sexual pleasure and wellness amazing so this is branching out I guess from well I don't know it's interesting because beauty is like how do you define it is it the outer beauty that you have or is it that beauty that's coming from your own full like self-fulfillment i guess it's beauty

holistically um if you are feeling fulfilled yeah um generally uh you will give off a vibe that makes you beautiful 100 without a stitch of anything else on yeah um so i I think the way that beauty is now, it's much more of a whole body, mind, spirit concept. And that's the way that I see it through cult beauty. social change has been huge social movements um around females female sexual pleasure sexual health um you know what is the word uh oh damn i've totally lost it liberation i think it's it's it's liberation but it's consent oh yeah yeah sorry totally lost it um so yeah um around the concept of consent um and you know what what drives women um generally has always been impressed on them to a certain extent you will enjoy this you will like this um women like this yes don't they you're like well actually quite a few do um and um it's quite a few don't and so it's it's kind of shedding this chrysalis, a little bit of embarrassment and a little bit of shame that's left over from history.

And just getting out there and being honest about needs, about health, about what you need to be serious about and what you need to be very fun and unserious about. And I think this this category encompasses all of that and we're launching it on International Women's Day just to make it an even more solid celebration well I think it is so important and you're right this conversation around sexual female sexual pleasure and consent go hand in hand because what's ironical what I've spoken about sex so many times in this podcast now and I still go red it's still I still have that shame it's so hard to it's so entrenched we've definitely said the word vagina a lot more in the office last month than we have in the last 10 years yeah it's it but it's so funny I was

saying actually I was watching with my boyfriend have you watched sex education on netflix not yet oh my god that's my next one you're gonna it's the best thing i've ever seen so it's a british it's like i don't know how to explain they've done it really cleverly they've kind of made it look americanized because it's more jovial but it's all british but there's one character they're all like 16 17 and the girl you watch her have sex a few not literally but she's having sex as character and she discovers masturbation and I said to my boyfriend

I can't, I can't, it makes me feel really uncomfortable but I felt absolutely fine watching her having sex with a man but self-pleasuring both of us were like oh she's too young which is mind-boggling but actually I think it think it is something.

I think I've actually felt that myself too. It was like, it's absolutely fine for a man to penetrate her, but how to touch her own body, oh, we can't. And that is so weird. I felt so uncomfortable watching it. But it doesn't take long to get used to it. No. And I think that we, as a society,

it's really only a matter of time before this becomes really normalized. Yes, I hope so. I think social movements come so fast now that it, you know, this has been gathering momentum for a while and we're really at a point where it everyone is ready to talk about it everyone is ready to openly go on a lifestyle website and click sexual pleasure and well-being that is my category I will be shopping today how do you think that's changed it's I guess since you entered the industry 10 years ago could you have foreseen this kind of category existing could you have had conversations

about this in the office? How has the tapestry of it changed? I mean, the conversations we would have had in the office were a little bit more kind of sharing what had happened the night before, but not in an empowered, general female way. I guess it's, I cannot imagine. There was at one point we talked about bringing on a brand called Jimmy Jane. Okay.

Who, they had a neck massager. Oh. That was sold incongruously amongst their skincare. It's like, how does this fit into your, but apparently it was their top seller. Really? So it wasn't actually a neck massager or we don't know? it's like how does this fit into your but apparently it was their top seller really so it wasn't actually a neck massager or we don't know it didn't look like that's so funny you probably could use it as a neck massager but it was basically a vibrator and we didn't we didn't end up getting the brand in the end but we had these conversations and it

was very kind of tittery it's sort of all this sort of slightly bathroom humor and and being a little bit embarrassed about it um and when we first talked about um creating this category and what we should put in this category it was really funny because I was I wanted to talk to my co-ceo Murray about it um and uh I I felt a little bit shy it was it was probably about may last year yeah i was like murray um got this idea for a category selling vibrators do you think you'll be all right with that right he's like sorry what did you just say i was like vibrators why do you want to sell vibrators I was like well I think this is something that actually is starting to make sense as part of a beauty category yeah it's it's wellness

wellness is such a huge part of what we do well being yeah um and it just really fits. It makes sense now. It doesn't feel like an out on a limb thing like the Jimmy Jane one. It really feels like a continuation of everything else that we have on the site. So, yeah, but he was totally fine with it. Oh, that's so good. I was a little bit shy to start off with it. He was like, well, that sounds like a good idea. I think, do a good idea I think do you know what I think it is and I'm getting there a bit with what I'm trying to do with my

work it's looking at women as like multi-faceted interesting people so initially like when I first started out I was oh I do fitness I didn't I went to the gym for one hour of the day and the rest of my day I was at uni whatever else I was doing but as a woman you're kind of like I'll pick my niche and now I'm getting to the point where actually fitness and health is about what books you're reading and who you're speaking to and how you're what you think about politics that's all linked much in the same way that beauty is linked to how sexually fulfilled you are and how confident you are in your own body and I think what it is is women have been oppressed for so long that we haven't been searching the right places because they've been kind of co-opted

by people telling us what the right way to do something is. Yeah, and also we haven't really been sharing it. No. So another thing that came up when we were talking about the cascary, having another brainstorm, is when we decided we want to bring the LV Kegel trainer on board.

And we started looking bring the LV Kegel trainer on board and we started looking into the stats and one in three women have pelvic floor issues which can lead to incontinence at its most extreme one in three that's more than people who have hay fever what age group is that every age really it's fascinating isn't it I mean it does um post-childbirth, but it's not always that way. Yeah. I mean, you just spot the people who don't want to get on the trampoline, really, isn't it? Yeah. But actually, once we started talking about it in a group of, say, I think it was about eight girls, two boys, two slightly embarrassed boys.

And it was like, well, actually, yeah, that is a thing. It is something that is there. And it's like there's greater or lesser degree. And it's like, what's this LV thing do? And it is an amazing bit of technology because it actually, you actually put it into your vagina and it can feel how the contractions are working so it can tell you if you're doing your kegel um training properly yeah if you're squeezing the muscles in the right way it's very bossy as you said that i literally just did once everyone in the room i actually had an app on my phone that reminded me and then it

actually just made me feel really bad because it's just another thing that i didn't do the reminder would be there all day and i'd be like oh this has an app with it and there's a little floating ball and when you squeeze it goes to the top of the screens depending on how good you are at the squeezing that's amazing so i was i was like can we make this a competitive thing would it be really fun have your friends all on it in the office doing it would be like mario brothers you could turn it into a whole little game that's really funny that that is i have to say i've actually seen it on um do you follow the sunflower oh yeah i've seen i've seen her if you haven't i haven't followed her for a long time i

think she advertises it quite often i'm thinking what is she talking about and it was the lv really cool british innovation it's i mean it's it's such uh an empowering object and also they've started working with the nhs yeah and um they're giving out LV trainers to people who are marked down to have a full-on pelvic floor operation to deal with serious incontinence. And they've actually stopped operations by 50% after somebody's been using the Kegel trainer. So how often are you supposed to use it or how? I think it's like a gym it's

like sort of three three times a week i mean you can you can you can be like a kind of arnie schwarzenegger of vaginas if you really want to because we've got one here haven't we it looks a bit like a sperm i thought doesn't it i mean it does look a bit like a sex toy so i mean it's that's medical grade silicon um and then there's a bit like a sex toy. So, I mean, it's got that medical grade silicone. And then there's a bit that curves around and it's on the, yeah, that sits on the outside so you don't lose it. You don't want to squeeze too hard. It's like, you are the winner. Now you have to go to hospital.

Oh, no, don't. But it's things like that and starting that conversation amongst colleagues yeah you know it wasn't a bunch of girls at the pub it was it was colleagues at work um and actually i think we all came out of that um session just with a bit more understanding about about each other and about sort of the female condition it's definitely a conversation that's happening more because obviously the program named after the 100 vulvas um photography exhibition instead that came out but they called it 100 vaginas because i think the idea was that if you put vulvas people would think it was about cars i think that's what jane garvey said on women's hour or something um but there is this now conversation where we're all starting to share

the funny thing is we're all walking around with vulvas and vaginas and all of us act like we aren't, which is why it's just so ridiculous. But there is just so much shame entrenched with it. Yeah. But you've got a new, what's the hashtag that you're using? It is the vulvolution. I love it. So we are starting.

Join the vulvolution. And it's hashtag vulvolution, isn't it? So that's one part of what we're going to be doing is starting a conversation. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning. Which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute i do enjoy the number one feeling winning in an exciting live dealer studio exclusively on fan duel casino where winning is undefeated 19 plus and physically located in ontario

gambling problem call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca please play responsibly across our social channels whether it's period pain whether it's pelvic floor strength whether it's um don't be embarrassed about having that conversation with your boyfriend about a vibrator. Yeah. It's how to check that you're properly healthy in that area. Go and have the smear test. Yeah. It's really, really important to understand because gynecological cancers are not called the silent killers for nothing. Yeah. And, you know, there's this stigma associated with them.

So it's definitely something we want to educate. We want to start the conversation or continue the conversation or make it louder. So when you got to the point where you were like, right, actually, we're going to do this. We're going to bring out this new part of the website. What were the real driving forces? What were the things that you saw that you really thought, there's a gap in the market for this and we've got to tackle this? I think we started wanting to focus on this category

because it has been up until now so taboo. Yeah. It feels like we're at the right stage in society's evolution that people are ready to hear this message now um whereas i think if i tried this five years ago i would have been shouted down as just a either a bit of a silly hippie or just one of those feminists yeah one of those ardent feminists but the fact is it's not it's not about hating men no because ultimately a fulfilled woman is going to be way more fun yeah yeah than somebody that's depressed. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's having conversations. It's bringing about the education

and it's making it more mainstream. You know, you can come in and you can buy your mascara and you can top up on your makeup remover and you can buy a little vibrator. I think it also probably, as you're saying, like reflects how your consumer and customers grown up so your consumer and customer perhaps isn't buying their their beauty products to make themselves fit the male gaze i remember you showing us um on the retreat different types

of eyeliner that were just really wild and wacky and weren't at all for conforming to any kind of beauty standard it was about like exploring the art that is makeup it's what my husband calls my myxomatosis look i love that bless him he's like i've got a myxomatosis look on today i'm like it it's it is red eyeliner it is really cool right now and i do not look like an ill bunny it's so funny but yeah i guess it's that so it's that kind of taking control of not only the way that you look but it's the way that you feel and even I still literally get stressed talking about that even subconsciously you're like this is really shameful but when you think about it it is massively weird that we can happily talk about sexual sex with a partner or like sex with a man or now I guess we're happy to talk about

different relationships aren't just heterosexual but when it comes to self-pleasure for women it's just not a conversation that anyone's really ready to talk about but it's so I don't know why it's not because pleasure is wonderful it's like eating it's it's like a really cheap way of feeling great i think i mean stopping or hindering self pleasure is a form of control um i mean sexually controlling people is the ultimate control because it's the ultimate compulsion yeah um so it comes from a very dark place. And that's why it's so exciting that we've come into this very light, exposed place where we are freeing ourselves up. And what's next? Yeah. I mean, this is just the beginning.

This is just the start. This is the shedding of the chrysalis and this kind of little butterfly coming out i love that um starting to to shed our stuff and open our wings like the the the next stage that we are heading to is is uh very exciting and aside from female pleasure which is one thing i think probably the most stigmatized part, but even female health, like with your vagina and your vulva. Intimate feminine care. Yeah, I know. All the words that they use for like feminine hygiene.

It's all very like hush-hush secret. Yeah, and I mean, I think it's even in America, a lot of these brands, the innovation has come, they still call it the care. Yeah. a lot of these brands the innovation has come they still call it v care yeah um because actually if you um for ads on facebook for any kind of paid activity on facebook or instagram you're not allowed to use the word vagina i can't believe that so you have to come up with euphemisms or pictures of fruit and flowers um and it's it just it feels so 1950s it's like come on facebook i understand you know i understand not having the word vagina as an open word but the algorithm is so so sophisticated now that it can contextualize the usage and if you're talking about a gynecological cancer or if you're talking about a product that deodorizes your vulva it's you have to be

able to use these terms to actually show people what it's actually for and the fact that you can't feels old-fashioned if it does feel a bit sexist that is and what about if you wanted to write penis are you allowed so you can't write penis but there are so many words that you can use for the male member um across facebook so it's yeah so the direct is skewed um yeah it is definitely skewed the the direct medical terms if that if that's the best way of putting it you can't use for either which is kind of mental yeah it's I mean even the conversation around like as we're saying the vulva vagina debate which I still find it hard to get around to saying my vulva I don't know why that is I think it's by the end of this conversation you'll be fine yeah I know I do correct people now and they just think I'm so boring I am really

boring them because I correct people on a lot of things I just like I just will stop getting invited to stuff I think can always come over yeah thank you so much what have you found as well have you found any resistance like in terms of um I guess you did did you do any that kind of consumer what's it called when you get like a room of people? No, market research. We haven't yet, actually. I think it's something that we all believe in so much that we are just going to launch it. Yeah, I love that.

And I think it's going to be very well received. Yeah. But that's all part of the conversation. Yeah. Is this the right thing are these the are these the products that you want to see like what else do you want to see I mean we haven't really gone into menstruation that much yet yeah but I want to look into like what's the best menstrual cup out there what's the best biodegradable recyclable recycled tampon such a big industry

now because i have my menstrual cup it's from um time of the month that's great but there are so many companies out there now that do recycle like it's amazing that i remember getting this menstrual cup from this brand um and i was really excited by the way i'm completely converted if you don't use one yet it's the best thing ever and they were the first one I've heard of that did like biodegradable, organic. And now it's two years later. And it's just amazing that these conversations are happening and that there's massive Instagram pages with huge followings and that we're talking so much about.

They used to be called a moon cup. But wasn't that, I think that might be a specific brand. But that was the only one that was. Yeah, I think that might be a specific brand. But that was the only one that was. Yeah, I think that is it. And now the menstrual cups, they've got properly different shaped ones, like the deep, the shallow, the ones you can have sex with. Oh, I didn't know about that. I can't remember that one's name, but it looks like super cool.

High tech. And it fits so well into this sustainability reusability refillable beauty um side of things that it's just i can't imagine it not being no something and we'll look back on it like why didn't we have this as a category i know years ago yeah i think i think that's definitely going to be a great category that you should break into but i just think even talking about as we're going through the conversation talking about female pleasure and beauty does just make so much sense because what makes you feel beautiful is what when you're feeling you're happiest and most content and um

as we know everyone always looks great after a shag no blusher needed so um i wanted to touch on a little bit more because talking about female empowerment and female liberation being a woman at the top of your game as you are cult beauty's receiving awards left right and center what how did you did it come naturally you said you were in fashion journalism then you used pr but going into business and now being a co-founder of a company that's clearly making waves did you foresee that was it difficult um I knew it was a great idea I had a real belief in it um I had no concept of the fact of whether or not I could do it um I got here by completely messing it up again and again and again, and hopefully mostly learning from it. And it's just been an evolution just like anything else. But I think it's just about

really believing in something incredibly deeply and being the stubbornest person about that and just kind of keeping the focus being a little bit um flexible around it because if you're if you're static you'll get broken yeah um but I know I didn't I didn't think that this was necessarily going to be the way that the path would end yeah what was cult beauty when it first started it was me and jess in a basement flat in islington and would you have a magazine or how did it um so we started out uh when we were building the um site which took a bit longer than we thought it would because we didn't have quite enough money to really incentivize the developers to prioritize their best people on it. We started a blog.

So we had a blog that in 2008 that we were writing into what we always wanted it to be, which was the store. So getting access. I mean, lots of loads of brands said no to us to start off with. And we just had to try different ways of doing things when they said no to us coming in and buying from a wholesale model we would say okay we'll stop talking to the distribution arm and i went spoke to the marketing department yeah said um this is amazing this is really going to elevate your brand please help us get to this stage and actually we had some of the pr departments who actually gave us pr stock amazing on the site so that we could actually get going with their brand on the

site and then once we'd sold like a decent amount the pr sort of turned around and said look we we actually can't keep selling the stock because we were sending them the money and they were actually using it towards their christmas party oh my god but uh and um so they then referred us back to the distribution arm we're saying like we really think we can make you decent money on top of really being great for your brand and they're like how do you know and we're like because we already have that's amazing so you were just kind of going I guess you're like plodding along there was no necessarily no backlog of capital that you were using or no like it was it was very much like well I I mean Jess uh was using savings and I was using compensation from a car accident where I broke my back oh my gosh so I broke my back um in 2002 and then I managed to get compensation

from it about four years later and I was just I just sat on that money and knew that I really wanted to to create something really positive from this horrible negative that's really cool and it is yeah it did um so it it really feels like there was there was a really healing process to that as well you know using this money to create something that then took me onto a path i never thought um i would be on especially when i was sitting in a cast at home oh my gosh and now you employ it's pretty mostly female isn't it was all women so in our hq it's uh we do track we index definitely towards the female but then in our distribution center it's it levels things out a bit yeah no

but i'm saying it's a mate because what i love is when you have female-led companies that are giving opportunities to women oh from that point yeah i mean our board is 60 women which is amazing our senior leadership team is 60 women um and i think for for it's just uh there's just a feeling of equality it's not necessarily about promoting a woman over a man it's just an equal situation whereby skill and excellence will drive you forward and you won't have somebody put their hand on your head stopping you simply because of your sex yeah exactly and also i think you're you don't know we can't talk about it yet but you're going to be working with a charity so yes so um a charity that uh specializes in gynecological cancers so we should have that all finalized in the next few days and we'll do big

announcements around that but we'll be giving a percentage of sales from this category to the charity and we're also going to be doing a bunch of internal stuff to to raise money for them as well we've given them a target that we're going to raise for the year and we really want to smash it oh that's really cool because it's all kind of going full circle like everything is feeding into it itself if that makes sense so you're giving women the opportunity to become the best, most fulfilled version of themselves. And then that's feeding around into more jobs, which is feeding into charity. And it's just a really nice, like, full circle. It just feels right.

Yeah. It feels absolutely right to be doing this right now. And I feel privileged to be able to do it because we're in a time where we can. Yeah. You know, where we're enabled to do what be able to do it because we're in a time where we can. Yeah. You know, where we're enabled to do what we want to do as women. And that is, it is a privilege. Not everyone has this around the world.

And it's something I'm incredibly grateful for. Yeah, it's amazing. Do you have any other bits and bobs that you want to share with us? About what? any other bits and bobs that you want to share with us? Oh, you know, there's some quite amusing bits about vibrators. In the UK, there are more women that own a vibrator than there are households that own a dishwasher. Oh, that's really funny. Which really made me laugh. But actually, talking about the pleasure gap, taught we talked about a little bit before and it's just on surveys only 39 percent

of women say they usually or always orgasm during sex compared to 91 percent of men but it's that idea that sex is over when the man finishes isn't it it's that idea that it's it's about his end game and not yours which is just entirely my favorite thing ever is that evolutionary wise the reason that women can have multiple orgasms is because we would have sex with as many multiple like as many partners as we could to accrue as much sperm as we could and then the best sperm would win and we'd have their child so we'd have sex with one man he'd fall asleep because that's what they do they get tired so they get the hormone that makes them get really tired and women get more um aroused the more sex they have like up

into a certain point so they would have sex with one partner and then the idea was that the reason that women make noises as well as they would attract other men nearby so they would know they were having sex this is true so all the sperm would compete with each other and the best sperm would win well that's darwinism for you and that's why it's why it's so ridiculous that we have slut shaming and this idea that like women who have multiple sexual partners because actually men are the ones that are actually designed to be um territorial territorial about the woman because they want to look they want to protect their their their child that they're bringing on so they will try and stay with that woman that's carrying their child she's the most fertile the woman's just going off and sleeping as many men as she can so that's actually just

a fact for you which i think is really interesting i love that fact yeah so going home and yeah you need to tell everyone that you know it's the best thing love that fact yeah so going home and yeah you need to tell everyone that you know it's the best thing because I think someone was slut shaming someone on Twitter once and I found that direct thing and I just sent it and I was like look oh can you send that to me yeah I'll find it for you it's so fascinating I remember reading I was like this is the best thing ever it's amazing though and it's just all those things that we don't know and how like that's that's that's the fact that's just all those things that we don't know and how, like that's the fact, that's written down. And yet somehow we're allowing men to call us a slut

because we won't take their number. Well, in ancient societies, women did actually rule the societies because they were the ones having babies. And actually they hadn't worked out that the act of sex was what caused the women to have the babies. Really? So they were seen as these goddesses and earth mothers who were propagating the race.

The sex was just a fun bit that they were doing. Oh my God, so they just thought it was like magic they hadn't put two and two together. That's fascinating. That's so good. Yeah. I love that. But it's the same as even when it comes to

conversations around sexuality. In the Greek times, everyone was just shagging everyone, weren't they? So it's ridiculous that we've got any kind of like norms it all comes down to control yeah i mean having to define things in these very specific ways as to how to control people within society and it started off with religion doing it and then governments have come on and found there are other ways of doing it too but um i think this has been the wonderful thing about social media and the internet is you can't stop it yeah it's like trying to stop a

water it gives you windows into places you could never have seen before i think that's what it's doing is it's it's like you're right it's allowing it's gets rid of that control something else i wanted to ask you about, because I forgot we talked about this earlier, but talking about religion and pleasure, we briefly were talking about FGM and female genital mutilation, which I know we've had some laws kind of change over here in the UK. But that's obviously harrowing that that's going,

it is a point of privilege for us to be able to talk about this, because obviously certain communities really suffer with their own sexuality. And you said something really interesting about circumcision. What were you saying? Yeah, I mean, circumcision in America is very prevalent. And it wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Mr. Kellogg, who didn't just make cereal. I didn't know that.

He was also one of the most powerful lobbyists of his time with the ear of governments. And he was a fundamentalist Christian who believed that masturbation was bad and that circumcision prevented masturbation. And that is why it was then spun as a health issue in America. And actually, almost every boy in the U.S. is circumcised because of Mr. Kellogg. That is ridiculous. Yeah, because I didn't really, because in the U.K., I guess, it's only, it's more prevalent in Jewish communities. But in America, it's everyone, isn't it?

It's everybody. I can't believe that. And that's the reason behind it. I mean, with Judaism, it's a faith thing and a symbol thing. But I mean, I personally disagree with cutting off bits of the body. Yeah, me too. Generally, every bit of your body has a really good function. And we might not know about it yet. It's the same as body hair, though. Yeah, me too. Generally, every bit of your body has a really good function. Yeah.

And we might not know about it yet. It's the same as body hair, though. We're conditioned to believe that shaving your hair off is more hygienic because Gillette or whoever it was at some point in time thought we better have some female clientele, actually, because we can make a bit more money if they're buying razors too. Yeah, they did. I mean, even their commercial the other day, I hate to be a cynic, but very good. But I'm sure that's because they know that most of the men who buy gillette razors are

men who are married to women who are doing the shopping which sounds really bad but i do think that that was a bit of that great marketing though definitely well now i'm pregnant i've stopped um shaving my legs because it's actually really hard to reach some of it when my sister was pregnant i actually did shave her fanny hair before she went into go-go but you are a good sister I had to kneel on the floor in the shower underneath her bump because she couldn't reach over it and I was like for fuck's sake underneath I mean I've shaved my friend's armpit hair before after she had a motor bike accident I thought that was pretty that was pretty good friend but I used to wax all my friends fannies at uni they would come into my room and it was like a waxing service I literally did everyone's oh this doesn't surprise me I'd be like welcome

to my salon and I used to do their fake tan we'll work for vodka yeah exactly oh yeah I haven't got quite to the pit. I do never really shave my legs, but that's because they're really blonde. And I do love the idea that I'd be feminist enough to shave my armpits, but I never let them grow long enough to get them soft. They're always quite spiky, and that's just not comfortable. You can't get past that phase. No.

You should try harder. I should do, really. I know. One day. I will do that. But, yeah, very quick congratulations on the baby thank you very exciting when when are they arriving um so I'm having a little girl in in June and so summer baby yes very exciting cancerian oh that is so exciting has anything changed in your um I don't know how's being pregnant

changed your opinion on things or do you feel much the same um well it makes you think about the future a little bit more and especially having a little girl as well yeah it's like what's it going to be like for her i mean when when i was growing up, I was sort of between phases a little bit. I mean, they call it the Xennial. So it's like Generation X and Millennial mix right on the cusp. And the definition of feminine and female was being challenged in the 90s when I was a teenager. So there was the beginnings of something that was quite different but you were still um not expected to go out and be an entrepreneur not

expected to go out and do that you were expected to get up go out and get a job and and do well in your career but this whole idea of just taking over something and owning it and changing things was not really necessarily on the roster. Yeah, I think maybe what's happened, I think it was more polarizing back then, whereas like feminism is fed into the mainstream now, hopefully, it still probably hasn't trickled down to like the less privileged areas. Yeah, I mean, to say you were a feminist um when i was growing up would have been it's it's quite a yeah it would be quite a punchy thing to say to people like you it would cause uh a negative reaction in some because it was always associated with man hater yeah this is so not the truth you can be multitasking yeah you can love women

and love men I know I get it all the time whenever I post anything the guys will just be like not all men and I'm like if you have to say that you're probably one of the men because unless you've done something wrong you probably just won't comment I'll be like something like men need to do better and I'll be like I actually men need to do better. And I'll be like, I actually am absolutely fine. I haven't done anything wrong. You probably clearly have then. It's really funny. I do think the future for women,

well, the future looks like it's going to be female. I do think it is getting better. Yeah. I think just to have a place of equality. Yeah. That is a real nirvana. Yeah. To go back to the 90s.

I've literally loved chatting to you, I feel like I've learnt loads It's been awesome, awesome fun and I just want to say one last thing is join the Vulvolution Amazing, if people want to get involved in the hashtag Vulvolution have I said that right?

Online, on Instagram, where should we be looking to find you? Well, the conversation is going to start on Cult Beauty, but that's not where it's going to end. Amazing. Fab. So everyone can find you just at Cult Beauty. At Cult Beauty.

On Twitter, Instagram, everything. Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. All the places. Thank you so much, Lex. It's been my absolute pleasure. Oh, well, pleasure's what we're looking for. Thanks so much for listening, guys. I'll see you soon.

Bye. Bye. Bye. We'll be right back. Every day.