Adulting - #38 How To Educate Your Parents with Grace Campbell

Episode Date: July 14, 2019

Hi Podulters... this week I speak to the hilarious and smart Grace Campbell. We discuss.... well, everything. From politics, to vagina pottery to how educate your parents on feminism. I hope you enjoy! xx Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Fandu Casino Daily Jackpots. Guaranteed to hit by 11 p.m. with your chance at the number one feeling, winning. Which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do. Daily Jackpots. A chance to win with every spin and a guaranteed winner by 11 p.m. every day. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario.

Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Or visit connectsontario.ca. Select games only. Guarantee void if platform or game outages occur. Guarantee requires play by at least one customer until jackpot is awarded. Or 11 p.m. Eastern. Restrictions apply. See full terms at canada.casino.fand for another episode. Just a pre-warning, this one was recorded on my little handy recorder because I had to go over to Grace's house. We couldn't figure out any studio time, but I have all the faith in my fantastic producer Spike to make it sound just as good as all the

episodes. So with that out of the way, I'm going to tell you about this week's guests. It is Grace Campbell. Grace is a comedian and activist. She is the co-founder of the Pink Protest and just all round, very well knowledgeable young woman. She's also the co-host of the Pink Protest and just all-round very well knowledgeable young woman. She's also the co-host of Football and Feminism and Everything in Between with her dad Alastair Campbell and this conversation is kind of about how to educate your parents or people around you who maybe aren't quite as invested in feminism as you are. However we do go up on lots of tangents um we talk about female masturbation and we talk about lots of other vagina related things so it is it is quite a um a raw chat i guess so if that's not your bag then beware otherwise please enjoy the episode

and as always please do rate review subscribe and let me know what you think. Happy listening. Hi guys and welcome to Adulting. This week I'm joined by Grace. Hello. How are you? I'm good. I'm very happy to be doing this. Me too. We're just sat on Grace's bed and it's quite sweaty. It is quite sweaty. We've had to close the door, so it's hot in here. Yeah, it's warm. So, Grace, do you want to tell people who you are and a bit about what you do? So, my name is Grace Campbell. I'm a comedian and an activist. I co-founded something called The Pink Protest, which is a female activist collective.

And we've worked on different campaigns on period poverty and FGM mainly and I'm also taking my debut stand-up show Why I'm Never Going Into Politics is the title of the show up to the Edinburgh Fringe in a very short time. That's so cool and it's so cool because you're saying that to me I bet you're doing so much. I know you're doing so much and maybe we're all just doing so much we can't see it yeah um what led you to come into activism I think it's such a new role to have it as part of your it's such a millennial thing but to have it as part of your roster of things that you do like you're like me your job isn't just like one thing yeah you've got a myriad of things but where did how did

activism start for you I suppose it was quite natural it was because I grew up in politics and I grew up with parents who are very proactive in like change making in different ways. Both my dad, who's a guy called Alice Campbell, like he worked in government, so did my mum. My mum's also an amazing activist and she's campaigned a lot on loads of issues surrounding state school education and improving state school education. So I'd watch them do that like my whole life and then when I found feminism I was like oh okay like I that I also have this burning desire to like say what I think and try and make a difference and then I met Scarlett Curtis who's my best friend and and then the pink protest sort of slowly evolved out of us having conversations about the fact that

we thought our generation as you know are incredibly activists they just don't necessarily call them that that all the time but they're really engaged in politics we're all like signing petitions going to protest like supporting other activists that we like on instagram and stuff like that so we just wanted to make something that was a kind of fun cool way to like bring activists together and it is fun and there are so many incredible young women at the moment like doing stuff just in their own way yeah I really agree and I agree about how it's almost under the radar how aware we are of everything that's going on so like even just little choices we make like we just won't buy certain things or we'll know to

do and even my mum will be like but how do you know and I'm like I don't know we just kind of look deeper I think we're we're quite happy to check beneath the surface yes I agree with that actually and I don't think about that a lot because that is a form of activism yeah you know not not indulging in brands yeah don't align with your views and going back to um what you were saying about starting up the pink protest and stuff. So how did you, when you first found out about feminism, what was your, my gateway into feminism was through Instagram being like, I want to post bikini pictures. And if I do, I'm going to be called a slut. And it all came from that slut shaming angle. So I was like, no, I want to be able to be one sexually liberated, but also not judged for posting this because of X, Y, Z. So it was a very like um surface level understanding of feminism

but it was my gateway into getting into the deeper more important issues although it's all important obviously what was your kind of first angle in um that's a really good question I feel like I was always quite a feminist even as a kid my mum's such a feminist and my mum raised me to think sort of certain things like I am really anti-marriage because my mum's such a feminist and my mum raised me to think sort of certain things like I am really anti-marriage because my mum has just taught me that marriage is a sexist institution and so I know I will never get married it's like one of those things that I know for sure are your parents married they're not married but my mum's been doing this campaign see she's such a co-activist she's now worked on this campaign to make civil partnerships legal

for heterosexual couples that's cool so that her and my dad can get a civil partnership without having basically she thinks the history of marriage is very sexist yeah and it's religious yeah if you're not religious like why would you want to get married like in a church and stuff like that um so I had that growing up had loads of amazing women like who worked in politics like Tessa Jowell was my godmother and so I grew up around amazing women so I feel like there was always this thing in me that I knew I was just as good as if not better than men and I still have that to some extent today but the first thing I was like I remember I worked on the no more page three campaign when I was like 17.

And it was, I'd started like reading about feminism and I was doing it at school. And then the woman who started that campaign lives around the corner from here. And I remember getting in touch with her on Twitter or something and being like, I'm a feminist. I go to Parliament Hill School. Like, I love to get involved. I went to a few of those meetings and would like help them with social media that was my first look into like this is something wrong in terms of page three is an awful thing yeah we still have in like one of the biggest tabloid papers in the country and here are some women who are getting rid of it and now they've gotten rid of it I do you know what I'd actually completely forgotten

about page three and then it's just so weird isn't it in a newspaper I mean it wasn't even that long ago that is so bad no it wasn't it wasn't it when I was when we were at think about it in a newspaper. I mean, it wasn't even that long ago. That is so bad. No, it wasn't when we were at uni, was it still a thing? Yeah, basically it finally got gone like three, four years ago. Yeah, it really wasn't that long ago. Yeah, and what was mad about that was it's like a kid could have just opened up the paper and on the third page, just a naked woman. So do you think that, because I definitely had so much

internalised misogyny growing up, I definitely thought my worth was in my looks. I've always been quite smart, but would never want anyone, I didn't think it was cool. But now I'm like, that's so fucking cool. The more intelligent you are, that's amazing. So I've had to do so much unlearning

and even now undoing. Do you think that you've maybe come at a place, do you feel like you've had less unlearning to do which is why maybe coming on to like the topic you're able to then like educate your dad and and do you think because of the position you started in I think that I think probably yeah I I mean definitely I had a lot of unlearning to do and you know even on stuff like pubes it took me a really long time to work out what I actually wanted to do to my pubic hair like for years I was just doing stuff to my body because I thought that's what

boys wanted yes and then only like a year or two ago did I actually realize what I wanted to do with my pubes and fair enough it is to get a wax but it was like but it was like in my own way so I had a moment of like retaliation and I was like fuck that I'm not getting a wax because of men and yeah like to please the male gay so that was one thing I've always found masturbation like shameful yeah and that was something that growing up when I was doing as a teenager I always had a lot of shame around so so there were like things that in the last I would say like two years I've really had to unpick and work out why I've been feeling this way and how common it is oh my god I love that you brought up pubes because I find it so fascinating because like the history of why women shave is literally because

Gillette or some other brand decided they can make more money if they targeted women so they literally didn't add being like you're cleaner if you shave. And that's where it all started. For a razor that's so much more expensive than the men's one as well. So that was the only, it was literally because women buy more, women obviously spend more. And it was like better for capitalism. The whole reason we shave our pubes is capitalism. But I completely agree.

I was trying to figure this out as well. So then I grew out a full brush and I was actually finding it quite itchy. Yeah. I actually don't like looking at it. So what I I do is I leave a landing strip same and my favorite thing in the world is getting my bum hole wax wait I don't I just shave I don't reach oh my god you shave your I think my um skin there has like because I used to get I think it's just adapted see mine is like if I shave no mine mine seems to be very chill about it now i think the skin i genuinely think it must be something to do with must have just

you've evolved with the razor and um totally masturbation is still such a shameful thing and i have to even the other weird thing about that is you've almost got to be careful even if you've come to terms with not being shameful you can't actually put that into conversations with certain people because other people get secondhand shame so it's not even like in every circle you can just bring it up like you could about a guy yeah I know select friends that I could be like oh lol whatever but that's not every everyone it's so interesting because I had the honor last night of interviewing Katlin Moran on her book tour and it was like truly one of the best evenings of my life she is I mean she's one of the reasons I became a feminist actually I've like that how to be a woman when I was a teenager I learned so much from that

but we were talking um on stage about how we're both very lucky for being these people who have always been like yeah I w I wank, and what? Like, yeah, I'm going to talk about wanking. But actually, some women don't, and a lot of those women don't have a lot of pleasure in sex. And there is a relationship between the two things. Totally, and when I, not even that, when I spoke to a gynaecologist about,

we were talking about using a menstrual cup, which is i use and she was like when i tried to talk to patients um about using one some women won't use one because they literally don't want to touch their own vagina that's awful and she was like often it is women who are slightly older so not even that they won't talk about it they literally won't can't bring themselves to self-penetrate or touch themselves which is the most horrendous thing when you think about the fact that it's okay for a man to put his body parts inside of you but you can't fathom the idea of being able to self-pleasure it's so entrenched in society women enjoying anything it's just and i think as well like from such a young age we're shamed around our vaginas so like they have hair they bleed we can't touch them because it's disgusting. We don't look down there.

I have this bit in my show about, it's basically this poem I wrote, I wrote, and it's called Looking My Vagina in the Eye. And it's basically, it's basically about how society told me to like, hate my vagina. So I avoided looking at it for like my whole teenage years. And then when I got a bit older, and I looked in the eye, I fell in love with it. it for like my whole teenage years then when I got a bit older and I looked in the eye I fell in love with it and then like my whole relationship with sex and like pleasure changed and I do think there is something in just sitting in front of a mirror and just staring at your vagina and like getting to know it because it's a part of your body it's actually to some extent the most important part of your body because so much goes on down there and why do we like disrespect our vaginas so much even just looking but so funny because you know that boys all look

at each other's willies and we'll talk about it and at school they'd all talk about who had a big willy who had a small willy what shapes and so and like that was absolutely fine for all the boys in the changing room to like grow up around looking at each other's willies and like that definitely would have taken away some of the shame obviously some of it would have been stigmatized but i remember being on a train we must have been like 17 and one of my friends doing a wee and she was like what does yours look like and we showed each other I'm gonna be all look really different yeah because we didn't know and like how weird is that that it took us like being in that stage where you're first starting to drink and you're like that should just be like

I know it's so interesting it wasn't actually until I remember there's this thing called the vulva gallery on instagram do you follow yeah and they draw loads of different vaginas basically and I was like oh my god they look so different you see that pot there my boyfriend made me that it's my vagina oh my god what does your boyfriend do oh he does nothing to do with art, but he made it in a boy's glass. I thought you were trying to say, oh, he does nothing. No, he works in pharmaceuticals, but he made me that pot. Did you do a cast? No. That's just from memory?

Yeah, I mean, yeah. Has it got a good likeness, do you think? Sort of-ish. I think it looks like those shells, you know, the shell. Like a conch shell. Yeah, that's it. It looks like a conch shell. Like the ones in Dr. Dolittle. Yeah.

So great. Anyway, yeah, he made me that. Oh my God, my boyfriend really needs to step up. I mean, it's the only thing he's made me, but. That's nice. It is nice. He's so proud of it. He shows everyone.

Oh my God. It's so cute. This is my girlfriend's vulva. So when you started talking about wanking more widely, because I know that's your piece in Feminist Don't Wear Pink, because I know it's a female way. Did you have, like, especially in front of your family and stuff, were you, was that shame, had you gotten over that,

or do you still struggle with it, or? You know what? Yes, it was definitely, the shame was there when I was younger. So the way I became more comfortable talking about wanking was because with the Pink Protest Girls, Scarlet, Honey and Alice, we all realised a couple of years ago that we had this very shared experience of having wanked like a lot in our teenage years, but never spoke about it. So always felt this sense of shame and we all started talking about it and then we started this thing called girls rank too and then we did like some events and we got loads of like artwork commissioned and it was all about destigmatizing female masturbation and that was the kind of like moment for me where I was like oh now I can talk about it and it was through doing that that I became more comfortable like talking about it in front of my family and I think there is a

thing with my family where like I've always liked to sort of my family and I think there is a thing with my family where like I've always liked to sort of shock them and so when my parents come and watch my comedy like they do grimace a lot because I like shocking people including them but I think I've always been quite good at being like even when my dad doesn't want to know talking about how heavily I'm on my period yeah I think it's so good that and it's your it's good that you've got that shock factor because a lot of people won't have the courage it's only taken me it's only through doing this and other people talking about stuff like this that I've had to just be like fuck it I'm gonna have to talk about it now because yeah I'm not gonna tell them off and I can't disengage and be like oh I can't talk about that and then eventually you just think about

it and you're like it's literally touching a piece of your body yeah the weirdest part about the shame thing is it's like no one's gonna know there's not like a little no camera oh like i think it's because we're taught that we get pleasure from other people yeah and so we're taught that like sex is all about penetration or getting pleasure from like a man usually that's like what we're taught in sex education at school and there is something a bit like disorienting at first about doing it yourself and being on your own and having pleasure on your own um so yeah I do and also we're not really taught about it at school no it's just the weird the weird thing is it's just any shame even like touching your own vagina but it's like why even like i remember when we first talked about putting a

tampon in with my friends we were like yeah i know that's so random it's your own it's like touching your mouth i know i know i don't really know i definitely think for me part of it's catholic i definitely think it's religious yes like undertones in that and it is it's it's black and white how much it's different for guys and girls i also think it's generational so we we were raised by a generation of parents who like aren't as comfortable talking about these things as us exactly so i think it will be different when like we start having kids i think about what when i have a child all the time what i'm going to talk and then i think it was sarah pascoe who was like I'm going to talk to my child so much about sex I'll blatantly go to her sex

the first time and just see me and I was like that's going to be me because I'm like do you want to talk about are you going to have sex if you are

like just tell me about it and how was it and they're going to be like I fucking hate her like where do you we're going to fuck them up in some way we're going to go

for sure we're going to go the other way I'm going to if I have a daughter she's going to be fucked up yeah it's so stressful it is stressful but working the other way so i guess this is the thing so if you guys don't know um grace has got a podcast with her dad and it's absolutely fucking amazing i love it i got so excited to listen and i think the reason i find it interesting well first of all actually i'm not

that close with my dad so it's quite nice to listen to someone else who's got a really good relationship with with their dad in like a different way and I can't because he's he's probably a similar age to my dad but he sounds like my dad and the fact that he can talk to you about the things that you're talking about and it's gone past the point of like understanding he actually finds it funny he really understands the nuance I I want to get to the point where I'm quite good at doing it with my mum but that's because we're so close that she can't avoid but almost like changing with me yeah otherwise she got left behind so she just like some things she does look a bit shocked but now she just knows to just swallow it yeah and then she just kind of gets over it but my mum's like that yeah how did you get to this point with your with your dad because

I bet so many people are like oh I wish I could just get my parents on a level because I even like forget the generational gap with Brexit but like within your own household sometimes there can be like quite a lot of like visceral energy between what we think as millennial women and what our parents think. Totally so what happened yeah is basically last year my dad was doing a show on LBC about feminism and he was asking the question can a man be a feminist he was hosting this show show. And I called in and, like, basically it was all, like, unscripted. I didn't know what I was going to say, but I was like, this is just two jokes. He's hosting a show on feminism.

He is not a feminist. Like, he's so unfeminist. I get at him all the time for not being a feminist. And so I called up and I, like, called him out on radio for different things that he does. So, like, he does nothing around the house and he uses the excuse that he can't do anything so like he can't use the Nespresso machine or like he can't use the toaster but he just doesn't want to yeah um the other thing was periods he hates when I talk about periods in front of him and he still calls women birds and

I called him out on these three things. And it went viral. It was like mad. Because I think what people loved was that this is such a relatable conversation. Like a girl having these conversations with her dad. And those are things that our dads, they don't like talking about periods. They are from a generation where women are more likely to do stuff around the house. And they probably do call women things like birds um and then from that he was like became quite willing to learn he found it very funny but then he was quite willing to learn and he now like which

I find amazing he'll um call me up to like ask me about something and if did he deal with the situation correctly and it's always that he did but he's just like really like he is just really eager to learn and it's been really sweet like watching him do the podcast because he he's obviously like watching himself now because he doesn't want to like slip up and not be as feminist as he wants to be um so I think with him it's it's maybe partly because like he loves he you know his career has been so interesting and it's spanned over a long period of time and he's still very kind of present in public life now but I think he knows that the world is changing I think he wants to change with it and it's probably not the same as it was when he was in Downing Street and was Tony Blair's

press secretary but he wants to be like always kind of modern which is why he like tries to do Instagram even though he's terrible at it um so I think yeah he just kind of likes to learn I do he's he's not perfect but I do really love that about him you can tell that he's got a lot of respect for you as well which I think is the nicest thing because he really does listen I think if I if I said it before so my dad well me and my mum will tell my dad of something and he'll turn to my boyfriend I'll go women and my boyfriend's like um I'm like dad you can't say he's such stupid women and we're like he just doesn't care he's got such bad white man syndrome I don't think he listens to this anyway such bad white man syndrome. I don't think he listens to this. Anyway.

Such bad white man syndrome that he wouldn't even, he's too far gone. Yeah. There's no, there's just no in with him. I don't know how I could possibly, but on some things though,

it's weird because it isn't black and white. There are some things where he is actually quite feminist. He'll be really fair about certain things or like in sport, he's quite good and like he'll say something

and I'm like, oh, that's quite feminist. But then's the mundane things a bit like the birds things or yeah just thinking women are just automatically a bit stupid but then he contradicts himself all the time but there's just this inability to think that his opinion is wrong yes in any way whereas your dad seems like he is quite receptive and i think the benefit like the benefit for that is if men like him are listening there's so many women like us talking like this but there's very few middle-aged men yeah but also my dad wasn't always like that like this is the thing it has been a really i think it's also partly because

it's really like bonded us him wanting to know about this stuff and wanting to understand this stuff but he in the past I mean I've called him out so much for like interrupting women talking over women mansplaining those kinds of things and I don't know I just think maybe I just got it into his head so much because I've I've been an outspoken feminist since I was about 15 16 years old so that's 10 years ago and it's just taken a long time I've just an outspoken feminist since I was about 15, 16 years old. So that was 10 years ago. And it's just taken a long time. I've just broken him down. And I plan on doing it with my boyfriend.

I plan on doing it with any man I come into contact with. You just break them down, slowly but surely. I feel like your boyfriend must be quite feminist to make you a piece of pottery out of your own. Yeah, he is. But I think all men can do with improving a bit yeah like but like all white women can it's like whatever your privilege is there's always some like more work you can do i think that's what happened with feminism i was like oh get it now it's about equality and then you learn about like ableism and racism and totally everything and suddenly there's a whole world at your feet of things that you like have to keep learning and I think it's

interesting because the more you research and read up on it when you get so obsessed that you think everyone's there with you and then like we were just talking a minute ago about like how echo chambers and you think everyone's going to understand and actually it's nice to hear from someone like your dad who isn't quite as far ahead sometimes I get myself in conversations and I'm like how do you not I know I know it's shocking to you I know but I also think what one of the biggest things which I think my dad is good at and I think I'm good at and I'm sure you're good at is admitting when you don't know everything and being like oh I'm willing to learn about that you know like I Jamila Jamil calls herself a feminist in progress and I love

that and I think we should all be feminists in progress because I'm constantly improving as a feminist. I'm constantly learning about like other things that I need to know about and different voices that we need to be listening to and not talking over. And when you're taking up too much space and you should be listening to people, not shouting. And it's like a constant thing.

So don't say, oh, that's it now. I'm a feminist. I'm kind of done with becoming a feminist keep reading keep listening to different people because there's so much more out there and I think for men that's a much harder trait to have um because they are more likely to be desperate to be right all the time I do also think that it might feel it's exclusive like i do think that sometimes it's quite hard to include them because i get this whole like you know when people are like not all men and it just immediately fucks me off because i'm like but it is like you are

part of a problem it's systemic it's not about you whatever and i'm actually quite bad sometimes at calming myself down and explaining things to people who like really aren't anywhere near what I'm thinking like when when men are attacking me about stuff and I'm like I could really just calm down and like explain it in a nice way but I just get so like I know annoyed that I don't have the emotional label or energy but I do think that sometimes like guys probably do want to learn more and like we've all grown up in the same conditioning I say this a lot about people that like men that are our age they there's so many things that I've had to unlearn they're obviously going to have to unlearn double as much but if we're not opening up the conversations to those people we're just going to make it more divided and I think what's really

good about the pink protest and a lot of things that you and your friends do is it's like it's not this one idea of feminism like it's enjoying the spice girls or it's yeah the fun bits of being a woman because I'm still just a 25 year old woman who's like having fun and sometimes you talk out too much and suddenly people want you to be like well not working all the time but having an answer to everything yeah sometimes I just want to go out and get drunk and wear a really special outfit with my friends completely and like that's my feminism my feminism is like fundamentally I believe inequality um in all forms I believe that men and women should have equal opportunities equal pay if they're doing the

same job they should be treated equally in all environments but if you want to be a feminist and get a boob job then do it like that's your feminism it's all for me it's all about choice if you want to be a stay at home mom that is your choice like we shouldn't prescribe how people should live their lives it's just having this fundamental idea of equality um so yeah I mean I'm I watch Love Island oh yeah same I love it I did I put this thing you almost punish yourself with feminism sometimes and I think you actually see it a bit with Jamila. Like, you know when you first learn things about feminism, you become so ardently feminist.

Like, you think about your pubes and I'm going to grab my armpit. I'm never going to wear makeup again. I'm not dying my hair. And then all of a sudden you're like, actually, that's almost more oppressive than trying to do the thing that's, by a feminist definition, like a patriarchal oppressor. You know, sometimes by not letting yourself enjoy capitalism. Yeah. Like, you can't live. But it's

also just do what you want to do like don't do it because you think that that's what you have to do to be a feminist like just do what feels right for you um and i would say as well like for me it's the kind of slow evolution of like working out what i want to do with my pubes working out if i want to use a moon cup deciding things how I'm going to use my body and treat my body in my own time um and I think everyone gets there I also think it's come so far but I think what happens especially because technology everything changes like exponentially faster so whenever I like hang out with my mum she's like your life is unbelievable I can't believe you got to like you have so whenever I like hang out with my mum she's like your life is

unbelievable I can't believe you got to like you have so many choices of clothes you can go to eat in so many restaurants and it actually really humbles me because you think like her life was like you get married really young you have a baby you stay at home like you quit your job that was like there was no options and when I speak to her and she like watches us and she's obviously enjoying it but also sees how much of a world we have like we've on the one hand there's so much to fight for but I also think we've got to make sure we enjoy all the progress that's been made for us by the people in the past months yeah and I also I completely agree with that and I also think

that there's this problem um which I've observed like having been doing the activism stuff, in that, like, people are constantly, not everyone, but, like, there are always going to be people who are going to try and catch you out for, like, not being good enough feminist or not being, like, green enough or... Because they... Once you start talking about this stuff in a public way, people think that you have to live this life full time it's like

completely embodied in you and i'm just completely against that like i can be um an activist for parts of the week but then sometimes i want to get on a plane and go on a nice holiday and lie by a beach you know what i mean like and not feel bad about it so this is exactly my on instagram like you're supposed to have like a niche and my what i'm trying to make my niche is i'm not going to fucking do anything perfectly so i'm going to shop less from fast fashion and i'm going to buy more tag shops but i'm not going to not buy anything yeah and i'm going to be like talk about feminist issues but sometimes i'm also going to do stuff which maybe is problematic because that's what being a human is and i refuse to like and have you been kind of called out for things all the time really but it actually makes me stop talk so there was a point

where I was kind of talking about it loads and then I couldn't be asked because it's that you're right basically and I spoke about it Jess Phillips but the minute you start trying to push against a system what people who can't be asked for things to change is I'll be like well you either do 100% or I'm not going to respect you and because you have to keep fighting it makes you actually back down and everything stays the same so you have to just keep it it is true though i don't talk about it as much on my podcast i do but like on instagram where it's like immediate reactionary stuff and people can comment like because it's very invasive it is and like i mean i get it to such a lesser scale but like i i just hate the fact that like someone can message you and then you're having a perfectly nice day and then you see a message like that and then suddenly your day is ruined or you feel shit.

And it's odd because, and also it doesn't matter, but say there's someone who's literally doing everything really problematic and really wrong and no one says anything, but say you're someone, again, like you said, who said, oh, I'm not going to use going to use like the amount like the hate awful messages I got once because I had a fucking plastic straw I was out with my mum for an apple spritz they brought me what do you want me to do I didn't know you're joking they were like you should have asked I was like I don't own the restaurant they were like you should know and I was like I'm just trying to enjoy a drink with my mum it got so fucking like angry and I'm like don't have a go at me because I actually do like I use a menstrual cup I have a reusable coffee cup. I don't buy water. Like, there's so many things that I do.

That's what I mean. And it's like with someone like the Kardashians because they don't ever try it. They're not saying that they're doing that. People don't feel that they sort of can call them out like that or they don't care as much. I think it's just people wanting to find, like, failure in other people. It's been interesting with the women's world cup because we interviewed gabby logan yeah and she said this thing which i thought was so interesting about when they released the figures for like how many people had watched the england matches in the uk

loads of people would come out and be like well that's not as much as how many watch the men's world cup and like that's not even that many and why did i see loads of empty seats and it's just people want women's football to fail it's like why do you care about whether or not people are watching the women's world cup like what job is it for you to care you're not benefiting from that in any way but there's just that's just the thing today yeah it's just that psychology it's the same thing with like how a single dad's really hot and a single mum isn't yes or just all of that same thing of just like women you can never do and I bet you feel like this especially like in our industries but I can never do enough have a meeting with my management the other day and I was like I

want to be doing that you've literally got too many things you can't do anything else I was like no because I don't feel like someone said this thing to me the other day it's really good it's called like good girl syndrome where you're like I want to be doing this but it's not good enough for me to just be paying my bills I need to be like making some kind of like all the time I don't feel like I'm doing enough unless I'm like doing whereas a guy could do half what I'm doing and just be fully satisfied because no one would question their integrity yeah do you know yeah yeah it's really weird but it's interesting because we with Katlin we spoke last night about like ambition in women and how we are taught to not be ambitious because it's like an unattractive quality for women to have and I remember like I remember when I was

younger and a boy like basically told me that I was too ambitious and it was like ugly to him and that really affected me and then I was like well I can't get the ambition to leave because it's just in me and I just love doing stuff and I I'm so like I hate not doing anything I can't have a day where I like don't do anything productive um but I was like okay well I'm just gonna have to avoid twats like that because the world is full of them but that's amazing because I definitely have that I literally let myself be molded by by especially guys opinions i would literally like be completely malleable to the point where like it it taught me so much you have to like do self-inspection and figure out who you are but i am loud and i'm opinionated but just everyone's

like favorite insult that guy's so oh my god yeah and it's like too much why would you not want to have an opinion and also you're opinionated you're telling me your opinion of me the other day like oh i was i'm not sure if he doesn't like me they're like oh no i think it's just because you like disagree with him and i was like right and they're like well i think you just i'm like so you go around your day i spend my life being disagreed yeah that's a conversation yeah that's what the fuck like how could that make you dislike it's weird yeah but I think that's because a lot of men don't actually come across, like, loads of women like that in their daily lives. Yeah, and because as women, even if you are,

if you do think like that, you're taught... I even find myself doing it and I have to, like, stop. You know, sometimes you're in a situation where you just start being like, oh my God, yeah, that's fine. And I'm like, what am I doing? I know. It's almost like a defence mechanism.

But that's what was so good. Do you know in Love Island, when Maura was with Tom and Tom said that thing so good um it'd be interesting to see if she's all bite or not or whatever or mouth yeah and she reacted straight away and I watched that and I was like god I hope that if anyone ever said that about me I'd be able to react straight away like she did because it was just amazing how she reacted to that and she shook his him to his core. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling winning which beats even the 27th best feeling saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do. Enjoy the number one feeling, winning, in an exciting live dealer studio,

exclusively on FanDuel Casino, where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. And they just all look like little boys then. Yeah. He just looked like an idiot. He he knew as well he knew what he'd done

yeah i don't that's the kind of thing when i was younger if a guy had said that to me i would have been like yeah i wouldn't yeah i definitely wouldn't have had that i might now no i know but at 16 especially because of the sex education i think it's the fundamental flaw like i did not know that sex was meant for girls like i thought the guy had sex with you and you were there and you yeah and it was like for him yeah like it wasn't about female and I think it's stem and I hate all this argument about like not teaching children about sex as if they're not gonna find out I know it's ridiculous it's ridiculous why don't we just start teaching them young yeah and together and teaching it in a way that's like... Like, not separating boys and girls. Yeah, because sex isn't the porn version. This is what I don't get.

Sex, we as a society made it this weird, shameful... That is all conditioning. Nothing about sex or sexual acts is remotely weird or dirty. I know, and it's like the one thing in the world that we all do and enjoy. And we all came from other people having sex like that's how we all got here because our parents banged one time my parents have only had sex three times and i thought my friend had a birthday card and it was like um your mom and dad shagged yeah and i think it's pretty weird that we're celebrating it that's such a good

girl I love it so good um yeah it's mad uh yeah so when it comes to like so when you do your shows your parents are there and does your dad entered into like conversations with you about it or does it is it is it always like an opinion conversation rather than like a what kind of level of chat um so my comedy is like quite crude it's quite feisty but it is about like growing up in politics and my dad features a lot my mom features a bit and my dad just finds it hilarious because it is funny and like, he just, it is funny. I must say, it is funny. I do make myself laugh. Sorry, I've been vaping too much.

My dad, and he's so funny, he like, tries to give me suggestions on jokes and they're just like, never good. And I'm like, thanks dad, I think you should stick to tweeting.

When, when you're into comedy, do your friends, from like, do you have friends from when you were younger who and are they all are you still mates with them or was it like hard to break was there any any difficulty in that arena no there wasn't at all um my best friends like I've got a group of best friends uh from school who are still my best friends and they like two of them

Anna and Tyler literally came to like all of my first gigs so like the first six to eight months one of them would come to one of my gigs I never went alone so they've been I mean all of my friends have just been so supportive and it's a really nice thing because it makes you feel like they think you're good yeah do you know what I mean because they like they were all really encouraging. And I remember Tyler, look, this is from my best friend who I live with. She made me this. This is a picture from my first gig.

Oh my God, your hair's so long. I know. And then on the back it says the date. Oh my God, that's so cute. A stand-up star is born. How cute is that? That is really nice. So she came with me to my first gig.

So it's so interesting because it sounds like all of your friends to use a really tired time now were pretty woke like when you were growing up as well do you think yeah I think so like we I mean I wonder if that's growing up in London because I went to a boarding school in Somerset and I just don't think we had a clue yeah I mean we we I grew up in northwest London I went to the local comprehensive school so it was very diverse it was very mixed and mad and loved it like we there was just like everyone was at that school and you just sort of um so that might have had something to do with it but I don't know I kind of feel like it's our age group as well. We had so much access to the internet.

And then I just grew up in a family who only talks about politics at home. That's so good. So even though I don't think I'm that clever in politics, I sort of know it from having been around it my life oh you'll definitely be so much more aware than I am I'm aware of it on like a very like peripheral vision like I understand like so specifically what I believe and I understand it on like a basic level but I'm not like that aware of the ins and outs you'll probably well actually it was interesting i wasn't

until i did politics a level and then i learned about like how the voting system works all the different types of voting systems and ideologies and and so that was really good and i think that should be taught at school compulsory i think at a lower level because why don't we all know how our voting system works along with likeions and how to pay bills and stuff. Yeah. So your show is called Why I'm Never Going Into Politics. Yeah, Why I'm Never Going Into Politics. Would you ever go into politics?

And it's... It's quite ironic. Someone said this to me yesterday. This girl I was really interviewing. She was like, the title of your show is ironic, isn't it? And I was like, I guess it is. Because she was like, because you're basically in politics. Because you're an activist. And I was like, yeah, but I wouldn't uh I guess it is because she was like because you're basically in politics yeah you're an activist and I was like yeah but I wouldn't say I am in politics like what I that

what I love about doing comedy is in comedy you can talk about whatever the fuck you want you can talk about sex masturbation drugs you can say anything you want and you have the freedom to do that if you're in politics you do not have that freedom and i am someone who likes to say what they think when they think it well you say that but donald trump very much talks about his sexual endeavors that's true uk politicians and women cannot get away with it so boris johnson's a really interesting one at the moment because he's obviously about to become our next prime minister and he has gotten away with so much stuff like some of the things he's said and done how many affairs he's had but if that were a woman there is not a chance that they wouldn't be vilified by the media and by their

opponents it's just not the same for women this is one of the points i make in the show and also like coming back to what we were talking about before i want to be able to like make money and i'll unapologetically go on a nice holiday without the taxpayer being like well you should be camping in cornwall not going to ibiza like because that's what politic politicians have they they can't enjoy their lives as well totally no i completely agree with that and i'll say things i want to say but like i think that going for politics is going to have to completely change because yeah on the one hand we're going back to really old-fashioned jolly hockey sticks very weird times in terms of politics it feels

like we're going back in time but on the other hand we all engage as you say with this other form of politics which is everything we do is political we're all voting with our wallets with where we shop with what we're wearing like we do a lot of things in the in our day-to-day lives which are like effect whether that's like working in social enterprises or looking at social mobility or racism like I think we don't really go to work and none of my friends do even if I'm nine to fives and just sit at a desk do a job and go home like constantly throughout that time there is some kind of social yes impact so i feel like in the future well but i just can't see the politics as it is is gonna be no but i completely agree but i wonder i kind of think what will happen first is more like what's happening now

where we'll kind of reject it in a way because if you look at what's happened with brexit ultimately no one's going to get what they want so people that voted leave doesn't look like they're getting what they want people that vote remain doesn't look like they're getting what they want and politicians have just been fanning about for three years now trying to work out how to do it and not really making up their minds and in that time people are like going on with their lives and thinking well what does politics have to do with me because they they're not they don't seem to be caring about what we want and they just don't I just don't sorry that's my what that's okay um I'll stop uh and the party system is just breaking down clearly yeah and and even i don't know as i'm

getting older i just look at things i'm like how is this how is this the norm like when it does come to politicians and loads of them did just go to oxford cambridge or they went to the bullingdon club and stuff and it's like how has how has that gone for so long i know but i do think obviously it's social media it's the amplification of voices it's like increasing but it's also because the system makes it so much easier for those people because it's all about being in those elite circles it's easier for men because child care is i don't know if you've been following stella creasy's been doing this thing about basically there's some i don't know exactly how to phrase it there's some like little thing in the rules and how's the parliament which means that women don't get like full rights to maternity leave so she's been doing this big campaign on it but like so that it's set up the lifestyle is set up for men really

because you have to stay really late at night to vote you travel all the time you're in two places the whole week i don't know if you spoke to jess phillips about this but as a mother it must be really hard which which kind of singles out a lot of women who don't have children um or who have children to not be able to do to have that career so that's one thing there's not like much freedom the house of commons is so outdated they're currently renovating it for like two billion pounds to look exactly the same so i just think we've got this like we're preserving something that doesn't feel like it's going to be fit for purpose for us and it'll be very interesting to see how it all unfolds yeah i

think i think when you dig into it more is more, it's the preservation of the culture. It's not really about even making good decisions. It's about men being able to be like, and go for their drinks after work and pinch girls' bottoms. What was that thing that came out about them having that club where they were all like,

do you know what I'm talking about? The bullying, no. No, you know, literally the same thing happened in the crowd. I was watching The Crown and there was like this thing that they go to and they all kind of like... Yes, I remember.

And then at the exact same time, like something came out in actual politics where there's like private clubs. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you remember that? I remember this. And it's just things like that happening where you're like, all we're doing, sustaining, really, it's just like a massive private members club for really... Totally. Totally.

Rich white men. And they just hang out. They've been hanging out since they were eaten they but it's like brexit has it's been a feud from when they were all like at school you know like michael gove boris johnson david cameron and george osborne have all known each other since they were at school together and they've all had different beefs and they've all wanted to be prime minister that's what this is all about they've all wanted to be prime minister none of them care about the country no and what drives me mad as well it's like i've got this stat in the show which is that 32 percent of politicians

of mps went to private school while only six percent of people in the country went to private school and 33 percent of politicians are women while just over 50 percent of people in the country went to private school and 33% of politicians are women while just over 50% of people in this country is female and I hate the fact that time and time again we have people who went to private schools deciding how the state school system works because they have not been in the state school system they don't know what it's like so if we actually had people in parliament who know what these what the public services are actually like to go through it would be so much better and michael gove has just fucked up the state school system like he's there's so much damage in terms of like academies and he's changed

the way that we do exams now and there's no coursework like he's really fucked it up and that's just come from a place of privilege and he's just not i don't think he's got the right to make those decisions i find the private school state school thing really interesting because i went to private school and it was fucking amazing but then on the one on the one hand i'm like when i have kids i don't i don't want private schools to exist like i'd want i want everyone to have the same access to education but when everything's so unfair if i can afford it this is one of those like weird feminist black holes you go into where you're like do I make a decision based on like what's better for me or

what's better for the wider society and I think on a whole women and there's so many statistics about this do you make choices rather than based on what's going to individually benefit them they make a decision based on like either their family or large group or like wider society. And the thing is, private school is, it is ridiculous. And you do get like, it just gives you, even if it doesn't give you amazing grades, it gives you stability to just like network and talk. Yeah, but like, I just think like Dua Lipa went to my secondary school and look how successful she is. Oh yeah, no, I'm not saying that it makes me more successful.

I'm just saying that I, if more successful i'm just saying that i if this is something that's hard if there was like a good state school obviously i'd send my kids there and i i don't think that private schools are good but then on the other hand i know that like i had an amazing time do you know what i mean i just think ultimately that period in your life i just want my children to have a good time and be happy i don't think you need to spend loads of money my children to have a good time and be happy I don't think you need to spend loads of money for them to have amazing resources and networks for that to happen I'm feel so like privileged to have gone to a state school because the amount I learned about diversity and other cultures from being at the school I went to I think it kind of did put me ahead of

other people by the time I finished um and that's more important to me to be honest no I totally agree I think there's so many things you completely get blindsided and I've had to like learn retrospectively but then when it comes to like some state schools and like the overcrowding and as you're saying like it's been the the sad thing is is it is again with everything it's this polarity it's like you have the one hand where there are these these state schools where the teachers are getting paid pittance and there's trying to fit like 50 kids into a class and people children who in a different circumstance would be really academic but they can't even like hear the teacher like do you know what i mean i just think send your kids

to a state school and then pay a bit of money for them to have a tutor like if you want them to do that well the problem at the moment is that the private school system perpetuates the class system yeah it's everything that's wrong with this country in my opinion um because it's where a lot of the problems that we have in politics now begin um if we all went to the same schools and if more middle-class people sent their children to state schools it would mean that the government would invest more money yeah that's true so that is a huge problem um and this is what my mum does this is like her big kind of thing is campaigning for this and toby young is her nemesis it's so interesting because what the

reason I went to private schools my dad's parents funnily enough my dad is a Brexit voter his parents are immigrants as are my non-parents and they are just classic and today to them the best way to integrate and become like part of this or like do really well was to earn money and send your kids private school like so for my dad it was like a it wasn't like an old money gentry thing it was like a proving of himself as being like a mate and that's what's so like interesting about it is people working do you follow the sunflower yeah she talks a lot about how she especially as a black woman would want to send her children to private school because she wants to access that that elevated privilege that she feels like fundamentally as a black woman she would never have access to and that's the opposite of what I'm doing I'm like come from so much privilege I think

it's actually wrong and I'm going the other way and I want my children to go to state school I want it to be more integrated and so what's what's interesting is like we're never going to agree but I don't know I find it really interesting when she talks about that do you have you seen yeah I have seen her talking about I mean I have loads of people who who are you know are of that opinion um you know because I understand that that's like a kind of different argument I think when race comes in because they're also like it depends what area you're from and sometimes people in particular areas want to send their kids to private schools so they can avoid getting into gangs and that kind of stuff um so it's a kind of never-ending conversation I just think that when we talk about politics we need to remind ourselves that the fact that Boris Johnson is about to become

the next unelected prime minister does come back to elitism and the fact that we're in this cycle of just always having these same people that went to these same schools getting into power and like Tony Blair went to boarding school like they're all Ed Miliband went to Haverstoke which is a state school around the corner from here but a lot of them they're privately school educated and it doesn't send great signals to the rest of the country who might want to go into politics but think oh I'm not posh enough or I didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge that's why I think Jess is just amazing at the moment yeah she's really getting her her voice out there I totally agree but yeah no the school thing is really interesting I can't actually get my head

how the Boris thing is even happening and again with the conversation even about like the the um oh my god what are they called what's um Farage's party oh Brexit party yeah how that guy was making rape jokes at Jess Phillips and was like still a politician I don't know who the people who are the people that don't think that's an issue I don't I don't know them yeah they're outside of our bubble that's the thing um we are in a very metropolitan liberal bubble I think in London like I haven't met anyone in London who voted leave in the referendum leave London and you do meet more and more of them but in London I don't know anyone who voted leave uh which tells you how polarized it is because leave won so like London is just a very weird place for that you know however the thing that's really

worrying me at the moment which is happening in London is this anti-semitism in the Labour Party like that's just I don't know if you saw what this panorama did a thing last night i haven't actually watched it yet but all about the anti-semitism the low party and that's just happening like everywhere which is just what really what's been the catalyst for that because i don't even remember growing up that anti-semitism just wasn't something that was on my radar but i say that and we definitely even i was guilty of making my microaggressions towards my jewish friends without knowing just like really stupid comments yes but i think um corbyn's politics has legitimized anti-semitism because he is very pro-palestine and obviously a lot of it stems from that but the problem is is that from which is from what i've interpreted a lot of

people who are pro-palestine it means that they like hate all Jews but it's like no you can like hate the state of Israel but not like all Jewish people do you know what I mean? But I think people have that thing where the easiest way to conceptualize sometimes is just to put things into boxes and make everything a monolith

and I think this is the issue and Jewish people have always been like stereotypes and they've always been really really like dangerous worrying uh stereotypes of them and it's just scary because of everything that they've been through like it just also that's my headphones it terrifies me yeah um that this is happening in the labour party and that they've been trying to cover it up well i went to budapest not that long ago my that's where my granddad was from and um i just went to the the holocaust museum and i was like reading all the history of what had happened and

i hadn't really realized that how far back it went and then you're right so when you look at where like the way that we talk about jewish people now and like in that recent history that's just happened it just seems so crazy i find it very weird that we have this collective ability to like like collective amnesia yes as if like things haven't well it's like especially with the EU the reason the EU was made was because after World War II we wanted something that would be able to mean that we couldn't have a war again basically and we've forgotten that you know in this whole brexit conversation we've forgotten that this came from one of the most tragic things to ever happen in the world that's why we founded the eu

that's why we're part of the european union so that we don't get into situations like this again and you're right there is a lot of people who have this collective amnesia and forgotten that but the other thing about the whole vaccine just i just don't get it's like protect our borders but we also live on an island yeah i know i just don't get it no it's paranoia to like the craziest extent they've got mad they just have like mad theories i think it's just what it's shown is that for a very long while a lot of people didn't really know what they were doing and then when people like Trump come out and he kind of, I guess, was like the starting voice of this like control thing. It's just speaking a language which people get and it sounds emotive and everything we do is based on emotion. Like that's why everyone always trusts their gut.

Yeah, definitely. So when you hear something that's really emotive and powerful and if you haven't had access to education that's the that's the fundamental flaw with the education thing but it's why it works if you are privileged and white and whatever else because you always it catamaran's this she was like what politicians make you do is they make you punch down so that you don't look up to see what's happening so they create a problem so if you're working class blame the black working class if you're um if you're black working class blame the new immigrants coming in so you're constantly looking at what's going wrong below you and never actually realizing that what they're doing is if you can't have access to education you can't properly understand

the politics that's going on so you're obviously going to go for the bumbling boris who's making claims that sound useful to you and you're this is why it's it's not by accident no not at all education thing i remember learning about like how how impoverished because i did grow up in a really privileged way and wasn't really aware of because i lived in the countryside as well you don't see homelessness and stuff as much either so when i learn about how and like the whole thing with like other countries are impoverished but the uk has got so many problems and when you see it you're like how are we just walking around and letting this exist like obviously I always think coming back to your point as well is the answer whenever I try and do like a thought experiment I'm like it

comes down to education every single time we could just educate everyone to the same standards it would help with the environment young girls be educated about contraception it would help with like everything would be improved it's like one of the best ways that we could create a true like equal society not but people don't the problem the thing that's really hard to get your head around is people some people don't want that which is why because to me i agree it's like the voting system though like the voting system is set out so that it's easier for like the toories and main parties to succeed but independents would never have a chance yeah of doing well um the fact that we really

should let 16 year olds have the vote but the Tories are never gonna do that because they won't vote for them you know it's like they don't want to give away power um so I think the one of the things for me which I'm like optimistic about is I think there are so many amazing people in like public life today talking about all of this stuff and you know what we need is kind of more and more people especially men coming out and talking about toxic masculinity and feminism that's one thing and then just more people coming out and talking about toxic masculinity and feminism that's one thing and then just more people coming out and talking about like state school education and what we need because that has real power we we saw that with the free periods protest like we got people like adjoa

boa and suki waterhouse and uh tanya burr and like just all these like really cool kind of like famous young women to come to the protest and speak about period poverty and politicians listened because they they want to be cool that's the thing politicians like want to be cool they want to get what young people want they just like don't know how so if you make a cause seem like it's something that will get them more support and votes from young people because I think like what suddenly is happening is like people our age are going from being young to adults yeah and that is generally how it works yeah but so that we're people they've never cared

about in terms of like voting they've never cared about what we think you know like the tuition fees going up was a really good example of that but now we're like starting to make money doing our careers in different ways and we will be a huge part of the demographic that votes so if they want to like get with it then they can start listening to us but it'll be a real I think we're going to be watching a very interesting period in our lives in terms of politics i think this and i i actually even said this to my boyfriend the other night because if you watch years and years on the bbc i'm halfway through it it's unbelievable but so it makes me cry and i feel quite see i haven't gotten to the point where my flatmate was like i don't think you should watch it right now you're too anxious

yeah it makes me quite overwhelmed i watched it when i was a bit drunk one night because i'd been out for drinks and came back and watched it and I couldn't stop crying. Really? Because it feels really close to the bone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels so real. Yeah, it seems that way. And we watched the last episode.

It's not like Black Mirror. No. Do you know what I mean? Black Mirror is so far away. This is like our reality, basically. Yeah. And I looked at him and I was like, do you think we're always going to feel like this?

And he was like, what? And I was like, I just do feel like there's a low level, like kind of, I don't have anxiety, but I do have a low level all the time just thinking like something's gonna go wrong and I really want to know if every generation because I do think when you're in your 20s everything is like I think when you're like a child a 16 like teenager everything's heightened personally everything's about you and like your sexuality and your friendship and then I think you get to 20s and everything becomes heightened externally and then after that you tend to have kids I think you get more distracted but I think this age is very like yeah agreed agreed I think

it is a very weird age but I also think we are living in a really weird time yeah I mean you're right like all time you know I can imagine living through like the 60s 70s 80s that must have been mad the 90s was like everyone was really happy and everyone's now quite nostalgic for it but we are living in what feels like a bit of a dystopian reality um and it does feel like at the moment things keep happening which make me feel like we've really not progressed at all yeah but then on the flip side then we have this whole other like our side of it and like these conversations like the fact that we can even sit here and do i know a podcast and broadcast it to tens of

people talking about wanking i know it's true it's true and i think it is that weird polarization um okay we'll come off the deep stuff and we'll come to an end. But last thing, talk me through your favourite Love Island characters. Okay. Characters, people. Okay. So, Maura. Yeah. Love.

Still loving her. I mean, I haven't watched last night's episode. I know, I haven't watched last night, but I don't know if I believe that Shout Your Fancy's character is. Same. My theory with this, which I've stolen from Katlin Ram, who's my new best friend. We're actually best friends now. Okay.

It's official yeah i'm gonna get her name tattooed um so my so her theory which i've stolen is that curtis is from a very chauvinist family and he sort of when he went in there he was like i want to just win so he picked amy who will it seemed like we have a very sweet relationship blah blah blah but then there was a thing where they it was like that tweet game that they play and basically they found out that the public don't think they're a compatible relationship they're a compatible couple and that they have any sexual chemistry that's as soon as when he went off her and now Maura knows that they're both big characters in the villa and that so they'd be a good couple because they've got like a good public following basically I think they have no sexual chemistry no and they don't make any

sense whatsoever no i got told something you know how everyone knows someone who's a producer yeah yeah everyone so i got told that apparently the reason that he was told to do that with jordan was because amy was getting loads of hate on Twitter. And the producers were like, you need to, like, put Amy back in public favour. So, like, is there anyone you fancy? And he was like, Jordan's okay. And they were like, act on that. I don't believe that. No.

I don't believe that. I just don't think he ever fancied Amy. No, I thought... He basically admitted it to her face. He used to... It was the way he used to talk to her. It was like, you're the most amazing... Yeah, he calls her a good girl. Yeah like you're the most amazing yeah he calls her

a good girl yeah you're so talented also not to be rude but what is talented like I want to know what the talent is she's an air hostess she's like lovely

but if she was doing she's lovely but talented's a really specific word well it's that he doesn't fancy her so he doesn't know how

he doesn't want to say you're incredibly sexy and I like fancy you so much and I thought the coffee thing what was the coffee thing when she was like you don't in and i like fancy you so much and i thought the coffee thing what was the coffee when she was like you don't in the morning like you don't hug me because i've got to make everyone's but also that's really problematic know your boundaries if you like if

you go to someone who says that you need to realize that they are fucking people pleasing and that's not good but also that they don't fancy you someone doesn't want to cuddle you in the morning like why are you with them? I feel sorry for her. I do because I noticed that she was like, you could tell that she was losing weight really badly. I was thinking, I couldn't remember and then there was literally,

I shouldn't go on there, but I can't help myself from reading TV and shows in the Daily Mail. It's a really bad habit. I really, I don't do it in public. I don't do it on the tube. On the tube,

I only read The Guardian and then in private, I'm like TV show this and then accidentally sometimes I read the words it's meant for just for the pictures but I do

the words are awful awful but basically I think that was another thing they were saying like the producers I think she was like

pretending we had to eat and I think it was for her mental health but that was really sad do you think I don't think it'll be on next year I do

do you I think so this year I was like am I going't think it'll be on next year. I do. Do you? I think, I think, so this year I was like, am I going to watch it? I mean, you're watching it. I think this year's been great.

The same, but then it got to the point where it got to more serious and suddenly I thought, God, actually, when you read Twitter and also how you react to it,

I do actually think this is actually a bit like The Hunger Games. Yes, it is ridiculous. Like I actually, I really enjoy it, but watching it now

with a slightly bit more of my head switched on, I am a bit like, I don't know. because also like, there has just been but watching it now with a slightly bit more of my head switched on i am a bit like i know because also like there has just been so much juicy stuff this year like i love ovi and i love the like public support that ovi's getting yeah no yeah everyone fancies him but i don't really get it because he hasn't said anything no he's so funny is that yeah he does all these weird like when anna dumped him he went and like lay did you see this like sucking on a popsicle he just doesn't give a

shit like he's just not really trying to couple up with anyone it's quite jokes yeah that is funny um yeah it's interesting that it's really good point about like the hunger games vibe of it has been very intense yeah and i think twitter is like everyone was being like oh my god we need people to have a moment to imagine half of everyone's mental health and the next breath they're just bitching about and it is like I would not be able to deal with

and I also wouldn't I love reading bad reviews like I hate it but I really like reading criticism about myself I've got this weird

sadistic thing where I can't ignore it like I want to know but then I also don't see but what I think they clearly have been good at is like I think the reason

they got rid of Joe earlier on was because him and Lucy were in like a toxic situation I think they clearly have been good at is like, I think the reason they got rid of Joe earlier on was because him and Lucy were in like a toxic situation. I think they probably made Amy leave. Yeah. So I think they're probably being better at making. They're putting stuff in place. Yeah. Making sure that people who like aren't in there.

I mean, what happened to Sharif? We still don't really know. Oh yeah. Well, apparently he called Amber a lighty and they said that that was racist and she said that she didn't care because people call her that but i don't know it's an interesting one as well because i thought it was because he like kicked molly may in the vagina in the play fight no that's what i said it's because he did a poo in the pool yeah there was so many rumors i had he bought coke on the beach when are they going to the beach

they go down to the beach when the people film the like shots of the villa you know when they're filming the shots they go down and hang out at the beach

and final question who is your couple to win um like obviously at the moment it can only be Tommy Fury and Molly May

I would love to see Amber find someone because I love her I think Michael's such a dick now I really I thought he was amazing he's the classic I've had ex-boyfriends like him yeah gaslighting like it was horrible to watch yeah really awful really horrible and him and that girl have like no chemistry it's really bizarre so I want Amber to like move on and stop thinking about him and I really want her to meet someone because I just love her and I've she's been my queen since the beginning.

She's got really good sense of self. She really knows who she is and her like really funny, really interesting personality. Yeah, I love her personality. I really like her confidence. Same, I love her.

She's a bit like random but I love it. She's so cute. Same, I love her. Amazing. I wish her and Ovi would get together. That would be the dream.

Yeah, but I don't, would you think they'd be good together? I kind of do because they're both so funny, but can't force it. No, we'll have to see. Okay, amazing.

Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. I feel like we've gone all around the house and had all the chats. If people actually... I fucking love your Instagram name. It really cracks me up every time. You can tell people.

My Instagram is Disgrace Campbell. I just think it's so clever. I literally look at it and I'm like, that's so smart. I love it. I'm like, so so clever I literally look at it and I'm like that's so smart I love it I'm like so many twists and turns I know

I'm never gonna lose it so funny if someone offered me Grace Campbell I'd be like no it's so good I love it I literally

honestly I was like that's very smart oh thank you it'll take a while if people want to find you anywhere else on Twitter I'm Grace Campbell

and then I'm doing two shows when will this come out this Sunday oh great I'm doing two shows on When will this come out? This Sunday. Oh, great. I'm doing two shows on the 24th and 26th of July. And they're my final London previews of my show, Why I'm Never Going Into Politics, at the Seven Dials Club.

And then I'm going to Edinburgh, and my show will be at the Gilded Balloon every day at 3.15. Wow. Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, if you want to listen to Grace's podcast, it is... Football, Feminism, and Everything In Between. Highly recommend it. It's one of my new faves. Thank you. Thanks, guys. thank you so much thank you if you want to listen to Grace's podcast it is football, feminism and everything in between

highly recommend it it's one of my new faves thank you thanks guys see you next week bye We'll be right back. Guaranteed winner by 11 p.m. every day. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Or visit connectsontario.ca. Select games only.

Guarantee void if platform or game outages occur. Guarantee requires play by at least one customer until jackpot is awarded. Or 11 p.m. Eastern. Research and supply. See full terms at canada.casino.fandu.com. Please play responsibly.