Adulting - #46 Why Nursing? with Hope McNulty

Episode Date: October 27, 2019

Hi Podulters... This week I speak to Hope McNulty, who is currently finishing her studies to become a nurse. We talk about what nursing really is, how the career differs from our preconceptions and lots more. I reallyhope you enjoy :) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. Hi, podultors. Welcome back to another episode of Adulting. And this is a slightly special one, as it is brought to you by the NHS. I speak to Hope, who is a trainee nurse, about what nursing really means in 2019 and why if you're considering going into nursing or if you're thinking about what you want to do why nursing might be a great choice for you you'll probably know this already but I come from quite a medical family and so I am always fascinated to hear the stories of the people that work in the NHS and I think that for all of us it's always great to understand a little bit more of these people who are really kind of like the gatekeepers of society,

you know, help keeping us all well and fit. And it's one of the hardest jobs in the world, but it's certainly one of the most rewarding. And I think you're going to really enjoy this. And yeah, it's just very nice to have someone on the podcast who works in a traditional role, rather than something that's kind of like in the media or you might have heard on another podcast. And I think you're going to really enjoy this conversation. So as always, please do rate, review and subscribe. And I will see you next week. Bye.

Hi, guys, and welcome to Adulting. In this week's episode, I am joined by Hope. Hello, you alright? Good, thank you. How are you doing? Very well, very well. Very wet day today. Oh my god, you can't see me but I'm literally drenched to my core. Thankfully you can't see me. But thanks so much for travelling in this awful weather to come and see me. Anytime.

Come all the way from Liverpool. Chill, yeah. Very kind of you. So Hope's come to talk to me about nursing. Ah, yeah. So basically this episode is actually brought to you by the NHS because what we're going to do is open up the conversation to teach people a bit more about what nursing really is and why it's a career that maybe you would consider.

And I think nowadays, even more than ever, it's not that much of a chosen career. There aren't that many people going into it. And so I've got Hope here to tell us what the parts of nursing that we don't understand and what might encourage us to want to consider it so do you want to tell me a little bit about how you've ended up in nursing? I kind of fell into nursing to be honest for my first degree I did a classical music degree with a principal study of classical singing and whilst I was at uni I had a part-time job working with people with learning disabilities and supporting

them to enter the community, part-time job, maybe bingo, disco, all that kind of stuff and after I finished uni I just went straight there and did full-time work and after that I moved for about nine months and worked in a residential home and the district nurses used to come in to visit the like the residents and because I was activities coordinator and not necessarily care staff they used to be like oh will you go and help the district nurses yeah you sit in with them point them where to go and that was basically it and I was talking to the nurse one day and she said oh you know this is how we do it like I went into this when I was about 35 and I went

straight into community and I visit people in their own houses, that's it. I was like, oh, right. That's a bit different. Normally, I picture the nurse on the ward, you know, going, oh, come on, let's get you ready. Come on, let's do this. No, not at all. She's there bandaging these patients' legs, checking catheters, everything. And sometimes she'll be like, oh, yeah, will you just help me?

Yeah, will you hold this bandage, do this? And that is what gave me the little bug in my head of, huh, I could do that. That's nothing. I could do that. That's dead easy. And so that kept running around my brain. She'd come back the next week.

She'd be like, oh yeah, do you want to just help me with this bandaging? Come on, it'd be really good. I was like, yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah it's like getting easier like come on come on um so I moved back to the company I used to work for with learning disabilities and I said to them straight away I'm thinking of applying for nursing. So I don't really want to be here for that long because I want to apply. And they're like, okay, yeah, fair enough, yeah. And I was um and ah-ing.

And I was like, yeah. And then my nan had a major stroke. It was like a week before Christmas, major stroke. And I'm like, oh, my word. So I was constantly surrounded by nurses and doctors because I was there every day every day and that confirmed it that was like I could do this definitely easy and so I applied on the last day you could apply sat in bed dog on my knee on my phone filling out my personal statement sent it off amazing

yeah just like that so I think that's really interesting going back to what you're saying about community nursing because I completely agree I automatically make that assumption again of a nurse on a ward and my mum was a nurse so she was on wards and I think of that kind of vision but also I when I I work with shelter charity sometimes and when I went to see them they have nurses that go onto the street and look after homeless people. And there's all these different elements to nursing, which means that you aren't just confined to the walls of a hospital. And especially because of that, you then are the leader in that environment because there

aren't necessarily hierarchies. It's like you're the nurse in that situation and that's your patient or your situation to look after. And so I can imagine why that looks really attractive because it's in a different environment. Yeah, there's so many different avenues to go into nursing because at my university they have mental health adult, which is what I'm doing. It's like the old general nursing, children's nurse.

And I think in some universities they do learn disability nursing. No, they definitely do. I think they've just celebrated 100 years of learn disability nurses. Oh, wow. Actually, yeah. So just so many avenues. Like, I'm currently on my final placement. You know, at the end of this one, they're going to tick a box and say,

yes, you can be a nurse. And I'm in a GP surgery and they have a homeless outreach clinic on a Thursday afternoon oh amazing and it's anyone's welcome you know and you can be you can see a nurse a doctor physio OT kind of stuff and it's brilliant so once you've started now and you're in it I guess you found out that it's a lot more than just putting bandages on people. Absolutely oh my word far from it um yeah it's so varied one day like I've had 16 different placements now I've had a school nursing placement where I've had to go to schools and give them the flu vaccine

and they go up the like the children's noses and it's like a little shot of water and they're like that hold at the nose and like oh yeah miss I've got it now and you're just absolutely laughing but good thing and then I've worked on wards I've worked on an elderly ward or like orthopaedics um I've had very varied district nursing I've had two district nursing placements in two different parts so one in Liverpool and one just out on the outskirts in a town and just seeing a difference there was was mega I've done palliative care. So when you're on the wards or when you're working in, say you're doing adult nursing right now,

what kind of things are you doing day to day? Because I think we think a lot about that kind of bedside manner and the hand-holding, but actually I guess it's a lot more proactive than that. And I think nurses have a lot more scope to do things than people think. I think a lot of people think nursing is like a rung below a doctor but actually it's almost on its own level, isn't it? You kind of do a completely different job. Oh yeah, definitely. It's like UCAS at the moment have just had a lot of scrutiny over

you will help the doctors. Oh really? Is that just all? Yeah. So that's gone. That's been scrapped. They've changed it completely. And basically nurses are the eyes and ears of the NHS. We are there. You know, if you're getting more and more sick, we're the ones that tell the doctors quick, come on, come and sort this out. We are also the ones that say, look, you need to prescribe this for this patient that, you they're not well and they go yeah of course but we do so much more when you come into hospital we're already arranging your discharge

before yeah you're leaving it was like so I broke my ankle in the gym finally I'm doing box jumps my stupid thing to do and when I had my ankle surgery I had like a pinned and plated I think I met the surgeon twice and the second time I was so delirious from going under that I don't remember him but the nurses are the ones I spent my whole time with and would chat to me all night long when I couldn't sleep were giving me more painkillers were there like doing like being around me the whole time and actually as you say you are the life and soul of the hospital you're the people that are there and more often than not as a patient you don't really get to see the doctor that much. They're often like in offices or doing more behind the scenes things. And I think nurses really do run the room or run the area that you're in.

Absolutely, yeah. Because we think of care and also your health as holistic. So we are looking. Say an elderly patient comes in. They've broken their hip we're thinking okay they feel they've fallen over why have they fallen over like okay let's fix them physically but why have you fallen over is it because the steps getting into your house you can't judge them very well do they need changing do we need to get the

occupational therapist in to get that sorted or they getting started dementia let's sort it out you know there's loads different things that nurses do they send so many referrals off like for all different long-term conditions like my granddad has telehealth, which is basically he has to do a blood pressure reading, pulse reading and send it off on a little mini iPad. Yeah, a little machine thing. Yeah, and they get seen very regularly by the doctor. If it's a bit high for a certain amount of time, they come in to the doctors and we'll sort you out.

But the telehealth nurses that have arranged all that you know so many different things we do for patients. So when you went into your training I mean I don't really know what you go through but I guess there's so many iterations of like you might learn about sexual health you might learn how to take blood I mean there must be so many different as you say it's really holistic because your health goes from all areas and with nursing sometimes I imagine it can be quite general and that you could be seeing a patient as you say who's fallen over someone who's got pregnant or it's it's a massive spectrum of things did you feel like the training has as armed you

very well to feel like super knowledgeable on a large variety of things absolutely um they start everyone on like a plain level like you know everyone starts at the bottom yeah regardless of whether you've worked in hospitals for 10 15 years or you haven't i never worked in a hospital before i did so they start everyone off anatomy and physiology which you do need to know regardless of whether you're mental health adults child learning disabilities because everybody has a body you know um but then it kind of cranks up with like you know your teamwork your communication your recording skills in in nursing if it's not written down it didn't happen right that's how it works um so that that's the next

step up and then you'll do like evidence-based practice which is you know researching and making sure the plaster i am putting on someone's leg is the right plaster for that cut simple as that helping you to research and things like that is really really useful that like we have to follow the nursing midwifery code for the for like nursing and they say you have to keep your practice up to date so you're constantly doing it and universities change that to fit in with where you are like all my placements have been so varied oh really yeah like i said before like have you I've been on the termination clinic and did a placement there a nursing home as well I've been in like private as well so it's absolutely brilliant so I think with doctors like everyone knows that it's kind of a bit like I'm trying to think in you know in Sherlock Holmes you get a

problem and you've got to look at all the different issues and figure out how it works and I think all of us recognize especially with like a GP when you go in that you give them loads of random problems that you're dealing with you've got to put them together and I think with nursing a lot of that goes on as well because you've got to be almost just as clued up because you might be the first port of call they get to and you might then have to present these ideas to the doctor so actually you have so much control over that patient's health more than just kind of telling them it's going to be okay and cleaning their bed sheets it is there is a there's a science to it as well

yeah absolutely yeah like even nurses diagnose patients yeah like there's a nurse practitioner role an advanced nurse practitioner role which you can do after you've done your nursing degree that basically makes you a bit like a doctor you will you will prescribe you well you can't prescribe and you have to make diagnosis on people you know it's one of them like but nurses do all the time you can't help yourself you know people are giving you symptoms you're like oh it sounds like pneumonia that oh yeah oh sounds like a broken arm you can't help yourself you know people are giving you symptoms you're like oh sounds like pneumonia that oh yeah oh sounds like a broken arm you can't help yourself yeah especially with the training you know you get taught all this stuff and what to look out for and especially long-term conditions because they become a lot more popular like diabetes CPD kind of stuff so do you feel like you've learned a lot more through your training and a lot more knowledgeable than perhaps you were expecting

like when you went into nursing were you expecting to learn as much as you have No not at all I've learnt a lot and also you learn a lot on the wards and in clinics and in the community as well

you think oh they give you perfect like how you're meant to be communicating with people in the community as well. You think, oh, they give you perfect, like how you're meant to be communicating with people. But until you go into the ward and you put it into practice, you don't know whether that works or not. Yeah. I'm from Liverpool. We say it as it is, basically.

So, you know, if you get it wrong one time, someone will tell you. So, you know, I've really learned a lot. Like my values have been enhanced or absolutely changed from having to sit with someone while they're dying and they're waiting for their family to come and see them. And, you know, letting people die with dignity. And, you know, it's not just about you come into hospital we fix you get out again it's not like that it's very very diverse and yeah

medical wise science wise you do learn a lot you have to it's the basics of you know nursing and that so because I think a lot of what's happened with nursing maybe in recent years why it's become stigmatized or people aren't going into I feel like because it seems there's an old-fashioned idea that nurses are like these matronly older women and it's almost become like a gendered role because that's entirely not true there's loads of men who go into nursing and it's a really difficult job and I think trying to change the rhetoric or the narrative we have around nursing so that people see it as a really commendable job and it's not easy I can imagine the hours are ridiculously long but I also had a friend um who does midwifery as well and she was like the sense of community

and the friendships you build working in hospital with other people who are doing the same for patients I can imagine that's something that's hard push to find in a lot of jobs yeah definitely you all all born together i don't know what it is i think it's because you can sit there on your break and talk about urine and feces while you're still eating and it's normal um and also people don't understand what you're actually going through what you're seeing when you're nursing that makes it sound like gloomy but if I was to say to my family, oh, my word, this patient came in today, oh, and they were bright yellow

and a family were crying and, you know, she was really ill, but it's all right. Like, we pulled the back together and they're like, all right, okay, all right. And for us, that's, like, amazing. Yeah. right okay all right and for us that's like amazing yeah or you say to someone I had to sit with someone whilst they'd passed away so I could take over from their family so their family could go home and stand like sitting there standing there while a family is saying like oh goodbye it is it's heartbreaking but another if you said that to another nurse they'd be there for you all the time I can imagine it's hugely life-affirming because you know that every single day when you go into work you're going to have an impact on

someone at some point in the day even if it's the smallest thing it's like giving a sweet to a child after they've done a blood test or whatever or sitting with a family in the moments when they're losing their grandmother I think there's very few careers where you know that you can go to sleep at night and think actually I've literally just had the hugest impact on someone you know I go home and I think of some patients and you know do what I helped them today I Good on me, basically. You don't want to thank you, though. It's a really weird sensation. It's quite hard to explain.

It's you. It's affirming to yourself, you know, like you just said, I've done good. I've helped someone today. And the smiles that you see of someone when you're like, oh, yeah, we can get that sorted for you. Don't you worry about that. And then May's up, absolutely happy over the moon. And it hits you right there in the centre of your chest, like, go May.

So I imagine at some point you're at a crossroads between choosing whether you wanted to go into a classical music career or do your nursing. And now, I mean mean they're completely totally different entities do you feel like you've made the right choice because for some people I guess classical music that's such a passion project and if you're skilled at that that's it might seem really shocking that suddenly you thought actually no for me it's nursing um oh yeah when I was younger obviously I wants to be a pop star.

That's just, you know, five-year-old me. Yeah. Spice Girls had just come out. And then I always wanted to be Claire from Steps because she was the loudest and I had the biggest mouth. So I wanted to be her. And after that, I was like, oh, no, better not. I sang in choirs, you know, did all that bit. I was like, I want to be a historian. and I remember being sat in the car my dad and he was like why do you want

to do that all you'll end up being is a history teacher and I was like oh and then I thought my history teacher's a school and I was like oh god I don't want to end up like them um so then I had a complete change of heart when I started having singing lessons when I was about 17. And my singing teacher was like, oh, yeah, you can get to your grade eight within a year. You could apply to go to music school. And I was like, oh, OK, I'll give it a go. And I did. You know, by the time I was 19, well, before I was 19, I had all my singing grades up to grade eight my music theory and

had a place at Leeds College of Music so that was a bit mad um and I was like this is for me I love this every day it was like fame school you're walking down the corridor people playing musical instruments everywhere you're singing and all that but after I finished because I went straight into this carol because I needed a job basically I think it came at the right time I still teach I love teaching

do musical theatre a lot I absolutely love it you should have seen me driving down the roads before I was like are we by the West End? And I'm like, look around. Going, that is fantastic. But, yeah, I definitely made the right decision. Every day I perform.

Yeah. I perform clinical skills every day. I have conversations where I have to repeat myself over and over again. Isn't there, oh, I'm trying to remember who wrote it, who's the person that founded the NHS? Welsh, I'm sorry, this is a really round thing. There's a poem about how the hospital, I think, is like the stage and everyone who works in the hospital is like a part of the play

and everyone's creating a story for every patient and you've got to make it. I'll have to find it and I'll send it to you because I think it's amazing. I can't remember, I'm sure it begins with a B. Whoever the founder, anyway, that's completely off the tongue. It just made me think as you're saying that make it i'll have to find it and i'll send it to you so i think it's amazing i can't remember i'm sure it begins with a b whoever the fan anyway that's completely off the tongue it just made me think as you're saying that it is so true because i think it's putting yourself it's almost like having an out-of-body experience because your whole day is nothing is about you it's about dealing with that situation at hand and actually that takes a lot of strength and imagine an amazing ability to compartmentalize because going from one patient who's just died to then dealing with something else must be an absolute mind fudge i swear then

i thought you'd work as well um yeah yeah it's very hard but before like happy face you you do yeah like you could be having loads of troubles at home and you go in in the morning and you're like hi everyone you alright? yeah come on it's good time for breakfast you know does anyone want a shower?

you get on with it you know they're in a place where they are vulnerable they don't really want to be there like who wants to be in hospital? People can be scared, you know, upset because they're away from the family or, you know,

and you need to make them as comfortable as possible. And it can be easy little things. Saying hello to someone, you know, hi, I'm Hope, I'll be with you today. If you need anything, just give us a shout. Easy. And it puts them at ease and you can see it. You can see the tension in their body just fall.

Like, yeah, it is very simple things. So for when, like, if we're going to be talking to people who may be thinking about applying or thinking that maybe nursing could be an option for them, do you think there's any kind of, do you think nursing suits everyone? Because I think, again, especially talking about, like, like men going into nursing which is something which a lot of people don't realize do you find that your colleagues are people of all different every single type of person I think with the diversity of the role there was a lot of diversity and people types

personality types as well like my boyfriend is a student nurse so there you go there's a there's one man um but no just there's loads of men that do nursing there's quite a few in my course especially through all the three years that I study at the moment and they they embrace it you know men feel more comfortable with someone who is, well, with another man if they're going to get washed by them. You know, male nurses are needed and I think more should actually apply. And what about, apart from talking about the empowering side and the fact you're doing good, I can imagine that nursing is also a really hard slog and like the hours must be long

and I guess that's not helped by the fact that there aren't enough nurses as well. Yeah, it is pretty tough. 12-hour shifts, but if you're constantly doing something, you're constantly busy, it feels like three hours. Yeah. You're like, oh, oh, six o'clock,

we've only got two hours to go. It can go really, really quick. And do you tend to do the thing where you have like three 12 hour shifts and then four days off is that have i just made that up is that um it depends on because you could do one day and then one day off and then have two days in right it varies they tend to try and group nights together definitely because otherwise it'll just mess your head up. But it depends. It depends on the hospital and things like that,

the way they do things. Because some wards will be like, you have to do three days straight and then maybe four days off or four days. It depends on what week it is. And there's loads of different things. If you were in a clinic, it's nine to five. If it's district, you could be doing out of hours,

which could be Saturday and Sunday, or or you just work monday to friday it varies in every single place like there's no set rule yeah so obviously you're still at the point where you're still studying so you'll be when will you be fully qualified um i finish everything by january. But because I'm on NHS Bursary, I can't work as a nurse until the 1st of April. Right. Can I ask you a bit more about that? So what's NHS Bursary? They don't have it anymore. Oh, is that what they got rid of?

That's what they got rid of. And they shouldn't have, really. I think it's an absolute chain that they I was with, to be honest. But I get about £400 a month with student loan. For those who would apply now, you get double the amount. Right. So you have to get more. So you get more. Like, I find it really hard to live off £400 a month.

Oh, I see. You're right. Because now it's a degree. It's a degree. So then you get the same as other students. Whereas before it was its own. It wasn't a degree, was it? No now it's a degree. It's a degree. So then you get the same as other students, whereas before it was its own... It wasn't a degree, was it? No, it was a degree.

It was just that the NHS decided for bursaries. So, but, yeah, I'd rather have the student loan, to be honest. I'd rather be able to live with student loan money now than I did, well, I am doing with £400 a month. And what about with going forwards in terms of looking for career, how your career might progress? It's interesting to hear that you can obviously get further qualifications and actually move up a rung.

Because I think something I wouldn't have necessarily known about nursing is that it's not just you're a nurse and that's the end of the story. You have actually got room to progress and move and you can actually go into working for the NHSs and like not in the hospital and yeah yeah could you tell me a little bit more about are there any other things that you think i know you're not there yet but you would then hope to progress to um i i want to work in a gp practice right as a practice nurse so i would want to then do a master's or like a postgraduate certificate or diploma they call them um in like clinical examination diagnostics so I can diagnose you

and go this is what you need and then also I'd want to do my non-medical prescribing so I can prescribe anything like a doctor could yeah so it makes life so much easier and is that a new is that a new position the GP practitioner nurse or has that always been oh no that's been around for quite a bit you tend to see them more in walking centers I think yeah like sexual health clinics and stuff yeah yeah yeah we call I don't know if they're the same I think it is I think it's probably a walk-in. I'm just thinking, because when I got my coil, I went to a walk-in. I hated it.

It was horrible. Not the walk-in, the coil. And I think everyone there thinking about actually a nurse and I kept thinking they were doctors because they seem so senior because of all the things they're doing and then you realise

they're just a really qualified nurse. They've done all the qualifications where they can be equal to a doctor in a way. Doctors ask nurses for advice all the time. Nurses ask doctors for advice all the time. We work in partnership. I think that's what was most offending about the UCAS thing was we work in partnership.

We don't just support the doctors. Yeah. So I'm just trying to think. Because there's so many different roles, like especially mental health nursing. You know, they might not do as much clinical stuff as adult nurses like taking blood. But they're as vital with people's mental health

than going out to people's houses and checking up on their mental health or doing a psychiatric report or anything like that. Yeah. It varies a lot. And as you say, with nursing, that holistic idea, it adds into so many different arenas of things I talk a lot about on this podcast when it comes to whether that's to do with social housing

or people that are suffering with their mental illness or people who have disabilities or different things. Nurses add into a huge roster of like kind of public health services that act together to really try and go help i mean the situation the minute isn't great isn't it i mean governmentally and everything we're going through and nursing is really at the forefront almost of this kind of war and inequality which we're trying to break through at the minute because you probably are the people that a lot of people will end up in direct contact with yeah and that can have a huge impact on someone's life more than

there's just lift of legislate i can't say it legislative stuff does even though it does really need to come from top down so i think it's giving that a voice back to nurses and showing how much of a fundamental and important role it is and why it's such a great job role i mean everyone's always thinking about what to do. I always kind of wanted to be a nurse a bit because my mum was a nurse and I just think she's the best nurse I've ever met. Also, the way she makes a bed,

I know that isn't really like a massive thing of what nurses do right now, but oh my God, that is mad. I can't do it. We are good at doing beds. I'm really bad at making beds and she's really offended by it because I'm so messy

and she does the proper folding down and everything. But also I do think it makes you like she's so tidy and so organized because you've got to run such like a tight ship and like get everything so organized and it's definitely the nursing in her I've missed out on that gene sadly I'm very organized I wouldn't say I'm not tidy I am tidy I'm very organized I live out my diary I'm not tardy. I am tardy. I'm very organised. I live out my diary. I'm very, very good at that. But I'm not a tardy person. I'll tell you that for sure. Do you think on that vein, are there skills that you've taken away from nursing that have kind of impacted you outside of your job role? Do you think that it's had a wider impact on you as a person? Because I feel like it's not just, as you say, putting bandages on,

it's so much more, and I imagine that must then impact how you live your life, do you think? Yeah. It makes me think a lot more of my friends and family because I've seen it when a 17-year-old lad's come in and he's been stabbed, and then he's passed away. And you're just like, wow. You know, my values have changed, like I said before,

with, you know, treating patients with, you know, they're not just here because they want the beds and they want free food. And, you know, especially like homeless people as well. If they come into a and a and people like oh here we go you're like they might be sick you know they might actually need some help and with the holistic care stuff we can help them that way but skills that helped me in my actual life definitely communication skills i've become quite a comedian to be honest

um like on the way here I convinced the taxi man I was coming here to to do an album recording so um but yeah having the confidence to speak to people you know anyone in the street I don't know what if that's all right in London like but you know in Liverpool everyone loves it yeah um I think it also probably because once you walk through those hospital doors everyone is the same it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or if you're homeless you're going to get the same care and the same treatment and I feel like that's quite a humbling thing as a passing agent hospital but also as a nurse it means that you get to everyone is on a level and I think that's as you say it helps you communicate with people because you see everyone really we're all just human and no matter what

amazing things you might have outside of like the hospital doors the minute you're being treated by a nurse or a doctor you're that can't do anything kind of thing and I think that's a really interesting it must change the way you look at people because you'll see people so much for their values yeah and as you say it'll help you view I mean I'm sure that you've probably got a very compassionate person anyway but I think a lot of people could do well from seeing the world with a bit more empathy rather than definitely we have to adhere to the NMC code um for all nurses to student nurses and nursing associates and it's basically like a little mini bible for nurses and it says well oh treat everybody equally um treat everyone with empathy be an advocate for everyone and you're like well yeah that's just you should just be like that in

real life like so if you're thinking that way like you know you've got the first bit nailed you know being a nurse if you're nice to everyone choose everyone equally you're sort of on the right step yeah then coming on for the more practical sides what about with pay and like in terms of going if we're talking about as a job now because it is a vocation I think we've been talking about very much as like a life choice and I think it really is that like you sign up to be a nurse and you sign yourself over to a very different way of living but practically from a job point of view do you find it's attractive in that like are the perks outside of like just making a great person do you know what I mean yeah um I think you start on 24 000 pounds a year that's the lowest but with

enhancement so if you do a night shift on a saturday night i think you get double pay oh that's good and it's it's a fair amount of money yeah like i know students who work as a healthcare assistant in a hospital and they will do one night shift a month wow I'll top up their money for the month that's great they're made up oh

we do Saturday and Sunday night so it pays me rent for the month yeah oh right okay fair enough that is good but there's loads of like especially in the NHS there's loads of holidays

and stuff I think it's like 20 I'll get this wrong don't worry forget it that's fine about 29 days

I think but there's other little perks so I'm sure there's a scheme you can do with your car

where you don't pay tax on it or you get it for a cheaper price the only thing I can think of is also

don't you get half-priced dominoes I just remember that you need to use everyone's NHS things to get

half-priced dominoes you get 20% off in Nantoo's as well yeah you just can't honestly all the nurses we're always going out with them for pizza or

you do get quite good discounts and stuff actually now thinking about it yeah there's like a card you can get called the blue light card and you can get

money off holidays and all things like that honestly it's really good I think it's good to hear about it from a practical because I think as I say it is a vocation but 24k for a starting salary is not bad at all

um and i think it's seeing it more as a job than i don't know it is weird i do think the way that we've talked about nursing like previously in the past is kind of like it's like oh just go into nursing like it doesn't seem to get as much airtime as it needs no not at all as like a proper career it is a career yeah um you know because you you know you could be and end up being chief nurse of some hospital in london you know they need them or you could be head of the rcn the royal college of nursing yeah you know there's loads of stuff you can do you know you could really work your way up and it if you do your nursing degree and you go, do you know what, I want to be more like a doctor now.

Yeah. You can do a, I think it's called a physician, physicians, I can't speak to say that. Physicians, associates, masters. I can't say it. It's my Scouse accent. I can't say that. I don't.

You know, you can do that for two years as a master's and I think then you are a bit of a PA yeah doctors don't yeah they um and can't you go into um what is it like doing stuff oh my god why can't I think what it is in like labs and stuff and going to research nursing and things oh yeah research nursing is massive at the moment um I followed like I shadowed some research nurses up in Liverpool Heart and Chest Hospital and they were taking bloods off people before they had biopsy to see if in their bloods it could say,

whatever part, it could say like they've got cancer or not. Wow, that's really cool. Yeah, absolutely brilliant. I found it really interesting. What's your, okay, I want to know, what's your, like, the best day at work, what would be, like, the best that happens, and what would be the worst day at work?

Because I think, for me, like, the best day at work might be I get a really exciting email, and the worst day at work would be, like, I don't get paid on time. Like, it's not going to be anywhere as extreme or exciting as your worst and best, so I'd love to know. Like, in real life, or just in hypothetical? No, no, no, maybe in your real life. Real life, okay, best know like in real life or just in hypothetical no no in your maybe in

your real life real life okay best thing yeah I remember once um I I had to go to the neonatal ward to like have a day there get a feel for it and all that and they were saying, oh, there's twins nearly being born. You could go if you want. I was like, oh, I don't know how I feel about that. I went round. I went white as a sheet. Really? Yeah.

But then afterwards when I saw them on the ward and like little tiny dinky babies, oh, it was dead cute. That was a really nice day for me, that. That is cute. I can imagine that being lovely. I am. babies that was a really nice day for me that that is cute I can imagine that being lovely and another time when I was working

on the termination clinic I had a lady come in what's a termination

clinic quickly it's where you can have an abortion right termination

of pregnancy when you said it earlier I was like I don't know what that means

they tend to call it that rather than the abortion clinic. Yeah, I think I would have called it an abortion clinic. Yeah, yeah. Wrong terminology. No, well, it's one of them, isn't it? I literally met a lady for two minutes. I was like, hi, you all right? How are you doing?

I just need to see your blood pressure and blood pressure and all that. And she came in to me and went, my blood pressure is going to be through the roof. I went, really? Let's sit down. Let's see. Come on. She was like, I've got white coat syndrome, which is basically she's scared of hospitals. Yeah.

I was like, oh, there it is. There we go. And she carried on talking to me. I was like, okay, yeah. She went, I thought I was going to be late. And you're not allowed to be late, are you? I was like, no, not really. But you're here now.

Don't worry. She went, I've had to lie to work of why I'm here and this is all because I had an affair with a married man and I was a bit like why are you telling me this I was like I literally said back to her you don't have to tell me anything you know it's absolutely fine she went no I've not been able to tell anybody about this. And I trust you. And you didn't judge me at all for being here. And I felt really comfortable telling you that. And I just had to get it out.

And my heart absolutely sank. I was like, for her to trust me for two minutes, just through me being nice to her, best day. Best day ever. I can imagine that, T that totally because also it's that like patient confidentiality thing that you do feel like it is no judgment that's the loveliest thing it's like you don't when you walk through those doors no one's ever going to care what's what you've done or whatever so I think that is that is a really a massive position of privilege because nowadays people are like they can't trust anyone. So that's really like honouring, humbling, not sure. Either or.

Either or. Yeah. Because I've had a lot of patients tell me stuff, confidential, and say, please don't tell my family. Like a guy had hidden HIV from his family. Oh, that's so hard. And so we have to, you know,

respect his privacy on that you know yeah it's one of them we don't judge why should we judge because that could have been me in that bed you know these little things really you know make a big difference yeah I think especially with like the abortion clinic now and thank god with uh northern islands just got through there isn't that amazing best news yeah uh but being like in those positions i think is it is a point of privilege because it's helping especially when i anything to do with women's issues i'm always feel really passionate about but i think like it's so nice to be able to know that you're helping other women in situations that are difficult for me personally that's what i would look at and be like this is actually such an attractive job offer because a lot of the time you do feel so helpless like what can we do

especially against like climate change or whatever else that's going on so I can imagine like going into work and thinking actually even if I just make one person's day that bit better you can finish that day and think yeah good do you know what I mean yeah because um i was quite surprised how poor people's health literacy is so what they understand about health like i've been seeing a lot of students recently in the gp practice and they're coming in they go oh i've got a really bad cough and i've got a sore throat i'm like you've got a cold go home you know we can't give you anything for that you know have some cough medicine you know what what what else can we do um and also people with diabetes you know as soon as you say oh they've got diabetes oh don't give them any sugar if they don't have any sugar they're gonna

die you know so a lot of teaching is done in this and how it could be simple things like how to take your inhaler properly or you know what medications or what you know because people now especially elderly people come in and they've got about

15 tablets and you're like okay that's your blood pressure one that's your stomach one that's this one you know

trying not to be dead fancy so yeah you know that kind of stuff very simple things I remember once having to not convince, convince isn't the right word, but tell a lady after she'd had surgery that she needed to take this needle

every day for two weeks. Right. Otherwise she could get blood clots in her body, which can lead to DVT, deep vein thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, which is very serious, or she could have a stroke. And my mentor was a bit like, oh, come on, you know, you need to take this because the doctor's prescribed it,

you know, because you've had surgery. I went in, I was like, look, you need to have this needle every day because you don't want to put that on your body. You can have a stroke, you know, which one do you want? want do you want to be all right just take the needle for two weeks or have dvt pe or a stroke or which one i think i think i'll take the needles i was like you know some people don't understand the severity of some things like some people are quite complacent when it comes to their diagnosis. You know,

you hear of people, you know, getting diagnosed with cancer and they're a bit like, oh yeah, I've got it. Yeah, what can I do about that?

You never think it'll happen to you kind of thing. Yeah. With the needles, are they the ones you have to put in your tummy? Yeah. I had those after I broke my leg.

Yeah. And luckily, because my mum's a nurse, she just went, I was like, I don't want to do it. And she just jabbed. It's also,

it's quite hard, it is quite hard if you don't know how to do a needle. So I was like, I don't want to do it and she just jabbed. It's also, it's quite hard, it is quite hard if you don't know how to do a needle. So I was pressing it but really slowly into my tummy and obviously that means

it's really hard to get it in where she just went like, you can't see what I'm doing but almost like a javelin and she was kind of like, it just went straight and I didn't even feel it and she was like,

that's what you've got to do and I was like, okay, because I was like holding it and pushing it and it wouldn't go into my stomach. You've got to find a little tiny bit of fat, it yeah and just a quick like like

yeah yeah that's it exactly whereas I was trying to like shove it into my stomach yeah but I was quite bored of that to be fair because you do have to do it for ages and your tummy then is just covered in dots yeah um yeah but that was quite funny I remember I shouldn't you're not supposed to but I think I put it on my Instagram story because I was showing off I was like I thought it was really cool um but yeah there is it's so true there's so many different elements to illnesses and things that go on that people don't understand I'm lucky that because my mum's doctor my mum wasn't asked my dad's actually doctor my sister's a doctor lovely so my family are full of medicalness so I feel like I actually know quite a lot about things and I forget how much people even that's just from being around them that's even being that's just listening to conversations around

stuff but basic things people wouldn't realize that is I find it so fascinating I love finding out like you know what's the thing when you press the glass to find out if you've got meningitis is it that oh yeah you roll it over your brush like funny things like that I find absolutely fascinating and I think for me in nursing what I would find so interesting is learning all the little cues you can see to spot for illness and I find that literally like the Sherlock Holmes thing I think it's like being a detective it's really cool. It's like you know if someone's got a really high heart rate you're like quick get the ECG stick that on them and you know we need this blood you know FBCs, UNEs, LFTs all the rest yeah like this one is for this, that one's for that.

Checking for all different stuff. Yeah, it's quite exciting when you've got to, especially when there's a medical emergency and they're doing all these things all at once. There'll be five people around there and there'll be one coordinator going, okay, because they've got this, I need a tropity blood doing,

or just to work out what is going on. You know, very exciting yeah because also that's it's weird to talk about medicine like this but i remember my sister saying when she was doing like any or like trauma she's like it's really scary but also the adrenaline and actually the amazing ability of being a part of a team where as you say it's a process you've got to coordinate it and all get together at the right time to do the right thing there's someone's life there but there is the other side of it where like you're completing a really difficult task and the feeling of that oh my god we did that right we did everything on time there's the compassionate side of like obviously

you're caring for the patient but also the personal like triumph of knowing what to do when to do it and with who for what reason kind of thing definitely um like i've been with the patient before and we've suspected sepsis a very big thing at the moment i think it costs the nhs near enough the same as diabetes really why is it so big because people are not realizing that yeah it's just they're not catching the signs in time or you know you could have a cut on your arm and it could lead to sepsis you know yeah it's quite serious but especially like trying to spot it in the community is a lot harder than it is in hospital because obviously you've got all the machines everything that can help in hospital um so I thought this guy had sepsis and they have a tool that you follow you do all the stuff and he did have sepsis and I was made

up with myself that I'd caught this this man didn't have to go to ICU or anything like that never had organ failure I was made up yeah absolutely over the moon and those little things you know like you know even something like Joe was someone with a UTI because if you have a UTI it can mean, you go a bit, like, you have kind of, like, hallucinations or psychotic episodes, something like that. Like, we used to always know this one woman had a UTI because she'd say, the world's drowning. I'm like, okay, I think we need to stick that. And easy, simple, something like that. Because I remember my granddad, when he was really ill, had a UTI, and it made him go really delirious.

And I found that so confusing to think that why would something happening in your bladder impact your brain? It's amazing. And also, as you were talking, it's just made me realize, I think one of the problems with the word nursing is it insinuates that you're nursing someone back to health. But actually, a lot of what you've spoken about is prevention. So it's stopping people getting to the point where they need to be hospitalized or they need to be nursed back into health. You're actually cutting and intervening. So maybe that's why nursing is a word slightly

misleading because it sounds like as you say putting the bandage on when sometimes it's stopping the bandage coming out at all yeah especially um public health nurses and practice nurses you know they are prevention over treatment that's why you get your vaccinations, your baby vaccinations, your travel vaccinations or, you know, your smear tests and things like that. It is prevention. They will treat you if you've got something wrong with you, but they don't want you to get to the point where, especially with diabetes,

where you're going to have to inject yourself with insulin every day. It could be three times a day you're injecting yourself you know of course we want to treat patients to get them back to 100 but prevention is obviously better than waiting until someone's sick and then going there we are totally do you feel like you've learned a lot about because i wouldn't know like obviously what the biggest killers are at the minute or like what's going on. Do you feel like you feel so aware of the medical world going on from being in and around it? Absolutely. Yeah, you pick up on different things. And even the area that you live in can, like, something can be big in Liverpool, but is quite controlled in London.

Right. It's postcode lottery. Yeah. That's it. If you're going to go to a nursing interview for a degree, look up on postcode lottery or stuff like that. Top tip. Absolutely.

Because it varies, like IVF rates, you know. In Liverpool, you can get it done, but if you live in the middle of the country or something, you you could get it done but if you live so middle of the country or something you might not get it really that's interesting it's loads of different like random stuff fertility is so interesting I mean I think just because maybe it's because I'm like mid-20s and everyone's suddenly starting to talk about it all the time but I'm like I seem to just be listening to conversations about fertility like all the time so that is can you be a specialized fertility nurse yeah you can yeah I can imagine that's really cool as well I've witnessed people getting like the eggs taken out of the ovaries

and stuff and I've also seen women having them planted they're fertilized can you see you can't see they're way too small to see or can you see them how big are they can you see it under a microscope you can't see it because what they do is they take them out of the ovary and they pass them over

to someone who works in the lab and they are literally there like pipetting stuff across going ten eggs oh my god that's amazing two eggs no eggs

do they just pipet from? Not from the person though. It's like a needle and they like drain the fluid and the eggs go in the fluid. But how do they get the eggs out in the first place? It's like it sucks your method into like a flask. So you don't have to do you have to go under anesthetic for that yeah but only local so it's like you're kind of half there you're not

you're sedated heavily sedated let's say that that's so funny I literally it's just like oh my god you can just

pipette them out I'll start selling one of them at the market just pipette them out when they plant them that's a lovely

situation and they have the picture up on a screen so the woman can see it and the husband can see it going in oh, that's a lovely situation. Yeah, I can imagine. They have the picture up on a screen so the woman can see it and the husband can see it going in. Oh, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, stood there holding a hand while a nurse implants it. Yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah, it's good. I like that. That is amazing. Another thing I wanted to think about with post-covid, I had recently had, actually my last episode was with a woman who's a doctor and she was talking about how health

which is something I started to learn about more is mostly down to like socio-economic like the richer you are the better your health is automatically it's true yeah

there's research done on it and it clarifies it and I think with nursing what you get an amazing ability to do is give back a bit of something that people who are like you say

in a post-covid lottery and born into an area which is more impoverished or doesn't have access to stuff I think as a nurse you're probably one of the first people that will be able to give them care because there'll be so many people living either below the poverty line or they don't have access to family or they don't have yeah like it's a lot I think it's always a lot more than being just a nurse for a lot of people you might be like a really important part of how they... Yeah, you act on behalf as an advocate for everyone.

You know, a lot of the time people aren't getting discharged is because they're waiting for a care package at home. So that extra support, that care going in once a day, and that takes up a lot of time. Like, you know, a lot of the beds in hospitals is waiting for the extra bits that they need so it could be handled by the toilet so they can sit down and get back up again.

You know, that could take a few days or could take two days. Just depends. Postcode lottery again. Yeah. Just depends. And it frustrates us in a way. Yeah, I can imagine. About getting all that stuff.

But social care, you know, how many cuts has there been in social care recently? I would say recently, but in the past 10 years or so, it's starting to have an effect because these people are now coming to A&E when they could have one care at home every day and they'd be fine. Yeah. I can imagine that's so hard. Would you say, I want to ask, we didn't do this and I know this might be hard, but I just want to get like a full remit of nursing, like what would be your, is your hardest day, as you said, like when you lose a patient, is that normally? That is quite hard. Especially when you've done everything that you can do. And you've got to think, you know, they were really ill.

They were really, really ill. Everything we tried, we did everything, and it wasn't going to happen today. Yeah. Unfortunately, and you have to accept that and move on. Because I remember once a lady went into respiratory arrest, so she was really struggling to breathe and if you have that normally you can in a couple of minutes you can go into cardiac arrest which is what we definitely don't want and this lady was in the bed opposite and we

pulled all the curtains around she went hey love she must have saw me through the through the curtain a bit and can you just switch that machine off over there it's beeping dead loud and I was like do it that machine's just keeping that lady alive is it all right if we leave on for a bit and can you just switch that machine off over there it's beeping dead loud and I was like do it that machine's just keeping that lady alive is all right if we leave on for a bit and I promise I'll switch it off after it's all finished she's like oh yeah go on then that's fine and just turned over and went back to sleep you know yeah that that annoys me yeah yeah so I could but the reason I wanted to outline that I think because it's such a it's more to show how much nurses you do and how much you take on

and I think like that huge spectrum of talking about someone pipetting an egg not into the room but someone literally like putting life into a woman's body

who maybe wasn't sure whether she could have life to being there as someone ends their life like that's an incredible thing which makes people

never experience in their life and that's your bread and butter in your day-to-day yeah so I think yeah like I found it really hard um when I was on the abortion clinic and the ward next door was the IVF clinic and for people who were having a surgical abortion would have to walk past the door of the IVF clinic. You know, yeah, it puts it into perspective, you know. And also, you know, elderly patients. Like, yeah, it's really hard seeing when someone's deteriorating and you can't do anything about it.

Yeah. Yeah, but with elder people as well, I think the thing my mum used to say she found the most rewarding was when they had no family. And she was like, I would just stay, it didn't matter if my shift was over, I would just wait with them. Because you could always be that person and they wouldn't be on their own. So that is amazing, that makes me want to cry. Because it's just so amazing.

You do just like loads of nurses stay behind after nurses. Yeah. I have. You just do it because you care for these people as they are your family. Yeah. You treat them as you want your family to be treated. It's like they say a lot at nursing open days, you use that, we'll be looking after us when we're older.

So I want to make sure that you do it well you know if you think of it that way you know yeah you you do all you can yeah so it does yeah I think I think it's such an admirable and incredible job to have and I'm glad that like I was able to talk to you and that hopefully people will look at it in a different way because i think it is there's so much more to it and it needs to be such a more respected career and also the amazing thing about it is it's like you can get skilled and taught it's i think that someone who's unsure of what they're doing you like you can be taught how to be a nurse it's not like certain things which are really prescriptive and yeah it's not like you're going to do an audition and like for when I applied for music school I just think if you show that you care and you can speak to someone else you know they'll happily take you on and then it's your chance to run with it in whichever way you want whether you want to go to like different areas whatever it's like if you if

you look on the nursing careers website the nhs nursing careers one there's tons of stuff public health nursing you know yeah everything absolutely brilliant amazing oh i've really enjoyed this chat is there anything you feel like we should have spoken about that we haven't touched on yeah no not really I just feel like people underestimate nurses a lot and it's a shame because we worked our heart

you know and more people need to go into it and people who are um and ah in

you know really consider it you know okay you're not going to earn a million pounds in your first year but

you know it's it's very good it hits you more than money you know yeah you know hits your heart very very much so and I feel honoured to be to be trained to be a nurse to be honest and I feel privileged to serve our public we do and yeah I think I think that's it's made me a better person seeing as we're talking about adulting I feel like an adult now to be honest

yeah bloody hell I can imagine so yeah definitely thank you so much for coming to talk to me

I actually want to go into nursing now can I have to quit this come join us come join us yeah it is no but it is

it's actually like really even when I talk to you you think god it must just be like I can imagine it's the hardest thing in love also just the most rewarding and incredible thing and i think it's it's just it's a very takes a lot of strength to go into it and i can imagine it makes you stronger and all that stuff as well yeah amazing thank you so much guys and thank you to the nhs as well for sponsoring this episode i will see you very soon

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