Adulting - #88 Exercise, Pleasure & Tax Returns with Emily Clarkson

Episode Date: January 5, 2021

Hey podulters, omg happy almost Christmas! In this weeks episode I speak to Em Clarkson, she’s a content creator, writer and champion of exercising to make you feel good. We discuss the three things she wishes she was taught in school, namely the benefits of exercise, female sexual pleasure and how to do a tax return. I loved speaking to Em, it’s a very giggly episode and I hope you enjoy! As always, please do rate, review & subscribe! Oenone Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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and I don't know what Christmas-ness is. And if you don't, then I hope that you're all well and good too and happy and safe. Do I want to say in these weird times? I don't really, but it's kind of come out now. Anyway, in this week's episode, I speak to Em Clarkson. She's a content creator, writer and champion of exercising to make you feel good. We discuss her three things that she wishes she was taught in school, namely the benefits of exercise, female sexual pleasure, and how to do a tax return. Just FYI, we don't actually cover how to do a tax return. We both just got stressed out about the topic. I love speaking to Em.

It's a very giggly episode, and I hope that you enjoy it too. Bye. hello and welcome to adulting today i'm joined by em clarkson hi how are you doing i'm okay thank you so much for having me oh thank you so much coming on i'm buzzing because i know that this is just going to be such a chatty and fun interview so thanks you just know it's really i know so can we have a little introduction to you and what you do for people who might not know you or follow you uh yeah I make I I overshare like professionally I don't I have no idea I'm still really like uncomfortable with describing what I do because I'm never entirely sure. I write a bit. I create content. I have recently created an exercise positive space as like part of my Instagram work. And yeah, I basically talk about myself and embarrass myself and my loved ones on the internet. great I love it you're such a joy

to follow and you're like so much energy and it all just comes through on your posts um so I think that's pretty cool even if there isn't an official word for it what you're doing is great I love it um so this season we are talking about all the things that we wish we taught in school and your first one links into what you were just saying about having an exercise positive community. Because the first thing that you sent me was that you wish that you were taught that fitness is so much more than being thin or running around a track. Girls' sport is not prioritized.

And we come out of school with such a misunderstanding of exercise and such bad relationships with our bodies, which is utterly shit because endorphins are life my relationship with my body turned on its head when I found the right kind of exercise for me and I wish that had happened sooner um that is I've literally just done an episode with my sister actually and she was trying to get me to stop asking her questions so she was asking me what I wish I'd been taught in school and I thought the same thing it was like one of my first things was like I wish I'd realized that exercise wasn't just about fat loss because that's all I ever thought it was about yeah but that's not you know you're saying like oh I wish I'd realized this it's like you had no tools with which to make that realization because the only exposure we really had I think

to like fitness was very much really the magazines, right? So like, I don't know about your school, but my school didn't give a shit about my physical education because I was shit at it. And, you know, like if they, if you're, you know, wonder kid or super athletic or amazing or whatever, you know, they, they might take an interest in you and there is space for you to go and do like high jump and shit but for people like me I was like oh I'm on my period again like the week in a row they're like okay yeah fine and I literally was sort of left you know in terms of like organized sport I would just sort of bailed and then the only real access I had to it was what I read and and what I saw and that was all like if you do 100 sit-ups every night you'll burn your belly fat and he'll fall in love with you and I'm like

cool so like I did none of the sort of mandatory fad diet exercise crunching bollocks and came out of school just absolutely hating me like because my relationship with what with exercise with myself was just so wonky yeah that's so funny you say that I literally used to do the exact same so lots of my friends are really sporty so as you say they'd get really pushed in the school really wanted them to do well because they were like athletes whereas I hated sport but you were made to do like a game activity like two or three times a week so I used to do recreational trampolining and I was like the only person that signed up so I would literally just run off and have cigarettes and no one I never used to get told off really for missing games I just protect I'd be like oh I thought I had a music lesson yeah because you know it's like it's almost a joke that you know

school that for most of us exercise at school is like I mean I have been laughing with a friend of mine recently because we were the same like we'd like we did cross country one term and literally we would get to like the end of the road and then have a cigarette and we'd always get caught and it was and now when I talk to her she's like as if like you're running marathons I'm like yeah I know like hilarious um and it's it's the weirdest thing but it was just like the most accepted thing that you know we were all just not doing it. But then at the same time, we were expected to be, or we put this pressure on ourselves to be super thin and toned and have low body fat and all the stuff that diet culture and society wanted from us. And it was a real head fuck, right? Yeah. And do you know what else is weird that I realized in late years was that our school,

I'm sure it's not the same now, but the boys were allowed to go to the gym that had all these weights and stuff but the girls gym was upstairs and it literally just had like treadmills and bose balls and all of our guy friends had a really innate understanding of exercise and food and I think it would have been detrimental to trying to understand it as much as they did but we almost weren't taught like the basic kind of science behind why exercise is important and like why it's important to grow muscles and why it's really good to be strong. Whereas the guys would like train that from really early age. That's so fucked up when you think about that. It's actually the difference between like men or boys and girls is physical education is so it's something I find absolutely fascinating and

it's something that like I'm really passionate about because if you look at like how little boys are brought up they have the like universal language of football basically and they can kick a ball about they've got something in common and it's always a sort of fun recreational thing to do really we don't have a sort of a comparative like we don't have like a parallel so they they kind of have this as fun but then they also get encouraged to be competitive whereas in women and girls it's just not encouraged you know it's not you don't want to be seen to be that passionate because it's not cool and competitive sorry um being competitive is i'm just like randomly hiccuping well it's just it's competitive isn't competitiveness competitivism competitiveness i'm just making up words now it's not encouraged in young girls and

so you know even if there is a real sort of promise in a young girl, athletically or whatever, she may not pursue it because it's not cool to have that interest or whatever it is. So on a sort of innate level, you can see the drop-off in interest in sports for girls. It happens pretty much, I mean, I guess the minute your boobs start coming in, but there'll be a specific age on that. But then you're right. Like going on. And as you get older, the boys are in the gym and they're supporting their rugby training or their football training or their, whatever they do with the appropriate weightlifting. And they're learning about their

muscles and they're doing it right. We also had a gym at my school, but like, oh my God, it was awful because the boys would all stare at the treadmills because that's the way the gym was laid out. So I would go and stand on a treadmill and I would run and I would run until I'd burned the amount of calories that were in a Maltesers bag. And then I would go again, because that was what I thought exercise was. I was like, good, I can go eat some Maltesers now. And it psyched myself up to high heaven, because I'd be absolutely terrified that I'd have to go and do this run whilst they were watching me. And it was so weird. Yeah, that's so true. That was such a big part of mine. I would get so caught up in whether my legs didn't look right to go. And I wasn't really ever thinking about the exercise itself.

It was always about like what I would look like to other people. I'd be mortified if I was unfit. I just thought it was the most shaming thing if you like got out of breath when you were like running around. So it was just the biggest barrier to exercise was me being, feeling so insecure about it. And what you were saying before about kids growing up is so true. Like all of my male friends have some kind of like physical activities that they bond around even now like in the summer

they'll be like let's go and play cricket or like let's go and play squash whereas me and my girls will obviously now that we're adults usually just go and get drunk but when we were younger let's go shopping or let's have a sleepover and do each other's makeup there's nothing wrong with those things but physical exercise was never tied into fun for us. It was always like you pointing out like a form of punishment or as a means to reward yourself with Maltesers or whatever it might be. Hmm. Yeah, it's so, I mean, it goes back to boys will be strong and girls will be small. And that's, you know, whether or not you're taught it so explicitly, that's kind of the messaging that we were exposed to. And

I find it very interesting watching people progress into adulthood and try and establish a better relationship with exercise because, you we are encouraged to exercise I think it has been pivotal like it has changed my life I can't tell you like the transformation in me that exercise has brought and and I just wish I'd had access to this earlier and I genuinely feel like I didn't and I feel like so many of us didn't because trying to carve this path for yourself, when you've got no resources available to you, you've got no information and to top it all off, you're so embarrassed just to like be alive and to be seen, to be trying or, you know, to, to, to maybe fail or, or whatever it's, it's, it's coconuts. But then, well, but I don't know, because now I hope it's changing.

And I've started this other thing, which is called the Have A Go's. And it's all about just trying and not caring if you're bad at it. And all these things that I wish we'd done sooner and actually going back to kind of having fun with it it which is what it should have been from way earlier on you know so when did you have that transition like when did exercise become something that you found joy in versus something that you sort of dreaded I think like I'm I mean I I'm kind of making it sound like I left school and then like just everything turned to glitter and it was fine because that was not what happened like I left school I was legally able to get drunk and smoke which I did pretty full time for like a few years um and then I I did I mean it was a kind of weird slip into like a complete

transformation because I did leave school and I know everyone says they can't they couldn't run for the bus but I not only could I not run for the bus, I would not run for the bus. I'm like, that would be humiliating. It would be foul. I'm not doing it. But at the same time, I was buying shit, tea, weight loss products. I was falling for every single marketing thing. I was so unhappy. I was battling with like the messiest relationship with food. And it's a really weird, cause when I look back, I'm like, God, I was so wild and whatever. I'm like, I wasn't wild. I was miserable. And it's really odd. But I then, I started, um, cycling a bit and I don't want to pretend that like I was any good at that um but my mom my mom was in is involved and was one of the founder patrons for Help for Heroes and

at my 18 the day I turned 18 my mom did her first Ironman competition um which is a 2.4 mile swim 112 mile bike ride and 26 mile run like and she had been a couch potato the whole way through my life so I kind of watched her make this incredible um I don't even want to call it a transformation I mean it was it was you know she completely changed her life age 50 and I think that was incredibly inspiring. Um, but for me, the change didn't really come until last year when I signed up to run Edinburgh marathon in May, despite like being a shit runner. Um, and for the first time, it just became so much more about what my body could do than what it looked like. And the numbers

before, you know, I'd counted so many calories and then it stopped being about that. And it started being about the distance that I was covering. And it just completely, it was the same thing, but a different perspective. And it just changed my life. And now, I mean, I'm training for my first ultra marathon, which is um but I perversely I'm so incredibly happy because I just look at this this body which is the same hunk of flesh it's always been and I'm just like shit you're fantastic like look at look at what you're achieving and you look like what you know who I mean literally who gives a shit what you look like because look what you're doing um I think yeah I think that must have been so cool to your mum doing that because it's almost like an awakening like she probably had the same messaging

given to her and you know then she's like found something that's given her this new lease on life um but I just can't get over because as we're talking you've literally just done a half marathon this morning and I very much got on got into exercise when I was at uni and got into like weight training but running I think is just when it comes to like mental health I think seems to have like the biggest correlation in terms of like there must be something to do with the endurance and like the actual mental strength that takes to get through like such long distances. Do you think that that is true or do you think it'd be any exercise? I do think it's any exercise, honestly.

But I think, I mean, it's a chicken and egg thing, right? Because it's really hard to enjoy something that's really, really fucking difficult, right? So I wasn't enjoying it particularly when I couldn't get to the end of my road and I live by this pub and there would always be men outside smoking and jeering and being blokey I'd be like oh god don't look at me and it was awful so you know I don't want to be like oh I I slipped you know that day I pulled on my trainers like my life changed because that's that's bullshit really but I think the journey and I hate that term but the journey uh has been I was talking about this the other day like when you're doing even you know and for me at the

minute it's ultra marathon training but it's the same with couch to 5k I mean it doesn't matter about your distance because for you it's the challenge right you have to generate your own positivity in a way that you really haven't had to do before because you're out there on your own probably but this is this is your legs and your head and your body and your challenge and you're doing this for you and it's you that's got to do it and I just I think it's a really cool chance for people to spend time with themselves in a whole new way. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. But yeah, and it's fresh air, which helps.

No, I think that's a really good way of putting it. Like it kind of lets you work through things. And I also think it's quite therapizing in some senses in that you've just got to focus on this task and you're kind of like surviving getting through the run and all of the noise and the external things that kind of litter your brain normally like normally my brain is just constantly flipping back between like worrying about stuff and whatever and when I'm running I literally can't think about anything except like just put your other foot in front of your foot and that is really cathartic for me because I find it very

difficult to switch off that little like voice in the back of your head that's constantly like worrying about whatever I've done or said or and yeah overthinking um the funny thing is actually there's something that comes up a lot on the have a go page that we that that I do is that you know people say because well the thing right, you can't enjoy running if you're going to beat yourself up over your pace and getting a stitch and having a bad day. You know, it's not, it's not fun if the pressure is sky high and you're beating yourself up. And if, you know, it's like you're standing behind yourself with a big stick and whacking yourself for not for not performing at your absolute best right that's not fun I mean it might be fun for someone but it's like not fun for me um and so a massive part of this for me has been like

like have the damn carrot like you're doing great you're fucking trying you're out there like that's great like you know there's there's crazy expectations we put on ourselves and it's like, oh, I've had a bad run because I had to, because I had to walk or, oh, I failed because I stopped, you know, 3k in. I'm like, you didn't fail. You went on a 3k run, like fine, you were planning a 5k, but you did a 3k, but your run finishes when you finish it you can walk on a run you've still been on a run there's one thing I know with absolute certainty and it's that only tossers ask you how fast you ran your marathon in like since I said I did a marathon I was like cool and then I meet some people and they're like what time you're doing I'm like oh you're one of those

like I understand and it's this like we put this crazy expectation on ourselves that you know it doesn't count if we're not giving it a hundred percent and that's absolute bollocks because that would apply if we were trying to burn fat but it doesn't if we're trying to get endorphins and be happy and make ourselves proud and yeah so it's it's kind of um it's like finding a whole new sport like there's running and then there's like this running and this running I love yeah and also I think like that was one of the first things that helped me was because I would set out to go on a run and then I would shoot out the door and then it was not very quick and I literally stop and then now more often than not if I do go on a run and I think, just take it slow, you're going to be fine.

I do like my best run because I'm not trying to, as you say, like set some ridiculous time limit or whatever it might be for myself. That is just so unachievable. And I do do that thing now where I do that really positive self-talk when I'm like, well, you made it out. Whereas before, years ago, I was so terrified of running that I wouldn't even go. So for me, doing like 3K out of 5K is such a huge achievement. But that's taken me years of learning how to be much more self-compassionate in order to tap into that. Because before, it would have just been another thing to beat myself up about that I'd just done another thing wrong yeah and that's I mean that's again that's not your fault or your failing because that's how exercise was spoken about really wasn't it and it's fascinating because

we're not competitive necessarily um in terms of like beating other people but we are with ourselves and we are pretty mean to ourselves most of the time which I hate I mean I'm now like I look like a full nutter like you you you know it's me coming behind you because I'm running down the Thames path going you can do it you can do it and I'm talking to myself like when I struggle I say the affirmations out loud I'm like you're doing it you're doing great you can do this and people literally look at me like oh yes I weirdoo I think yeah because I'm running away from them so lots of your stuff that you share on Instagram is to do with body image and I think it's super helpful and it's really unfiltered and it's kind of you I guess showing the world

what you wish you could have seen um but how how's your personal relationship with social media because I always find this such an interesting conversation. Because on the one hand, it's all kind of dependent on who you follow, I guess. But it can be one of the most detrimental places for people's mental health, especially when it comes to self-esteem and body image. But on the other hand, it's also one of the most incredible places for people being vulnerable and people sharing and, you know, trying to uplift each other. How do you find it as a space to navigate? So I love it. Like first and foremost, I follow the best fucking people. Like I wake up every morning and I look at like what my girls have done. I'm like, yeah, look at you go. And I love it. And it's so exciting to me. And I am so empowered and inspired by the people that I

follow. And I just think it's so educational and I by the people that I follow and I just think it's so educational and I have the best job in the whole wide world but you're right in terms of like the content that I create is very often stuff I wish I'd seen because although for me like oh my god sorry I got a frog in my throat fun um for me like Instagram genuinely has changed my beauty ideals. Like I grew up consuming, I mean, the content that we consumed when we grew up really was magazines. Like I was really like into like Miz and 17 again, and then, and then later like Cosmo and whatever. And, you know, Kate Moss was like revered, right? Like I grew up with the beauty ideal being size zero. That was what I considered to be beautiful.

Since I've used Instagram, I see my entire relationship with beauty is just completely changed. I'm like, oh my God, look at all these sensational people. And they're different genders and sizes and races and it's just completely opened my eyes and and changed my my my life and my perception and it's enabled me to have the most wonderful relationship with my body oh sorry I got a text um um so I mean yeah for that it's been incredibly positive but I am super duper aware that I have curated for myself an incredibly positive space because I really knew that I needed that and in the same way that I consume the content that was provided to me by the magazines in the noughties there are young

women and my sort of priority when it comes to this sort of thing there are young women who are consuming the content that you know that on Instagram that perhaps is not ensuring that they have a positive relationship with the app something that distresses me a great deal is filters and the experience to which they are taking over um and you know and and tiktok trends and instagram um trends that teenagers are looking at that parents haven't got a clue about and i'm super duper wary of that so for me it's incredibly positive personally, but in a work capacity, my entire focus and drive is around trying to ensure that it can be more positive for the other users because for every shiny side of the coin, there's the other one.

So, yeah, I don't know't know I mean my relationship with it is fascinating well I think you do it so well and I also think that what people sometimes don't realize is that by you like even for you so for me as well as a creator the more um honest I like I used to be so hepped up about like what I look like in every photo like if there was even one imperfection in the way that my body looked whatever whereas now I'm just like oh yeah that's fab and that's changed my own relationship with my body because I'm no longer holding myself to some fake standard so not only just like consuming content but actually when you're putting up content of yourself if it is really you like even if it's just doing stories

without a filter for instance and not wearing any makeup it might feel like a scary thing to do but the more you get used to what you actually look like the more comfortable you you feel within yourself it's it's the weirdest thing because I I often think that the people that suffer the most for using filters are themselves because how can you if you and I never ever ever want to bash an individual for making that choice because you do you right everyone is free to do entirely what they want to do societally I think we have to look at these things because I just think the access that we have to them if you can pick this shiny version of yourself like hell yeah like I get it like I mean

it completely makes sense that you would want to portray the best version of yourself but I think the danger is that once you've done that and you put your phone away and you look in the mirror you comparatively look dull and shit and all the things that you got to erase on the internet are right there and they're your reality and I just think that fucks with people's heads and I and I think we we have to be careful you know it's it's I I watched I think it was a social dilemma and I know everybody watched the social dilemma, but I cannot stop thinking about that line. Like there are two industries where companies call their customers, you know, users and that's drugs and social media. Um, so although

it's super fun and it's not going anywhere and it's a massive part of all of our lives, you know, it's, they used to smoke on airplanes until they knew better you know what I mean like yeah I just think we've got to kind of be a bit careful with how we look at you know and how we operate and and that sort of thing that is such good I actually completely forgot about that line but you're right I remember watching that being like fuck that is so true oh my god I'm basically a heroin addict yeah but basically yeah yeah it's like I wake up in the morning and I check my and you know I literally I see people in mind they're like oh I put like my do not disturb on and I have like half an hour meditation and journaling in the morning I'm like

good for you I get out and I turn on my phone and I scroll through Instagram and that's my life so I have started doing so much more in the pandemic because I used to be better when you like had stuff to do like I'd have such a busy day ahead of me whereas now because it's like well I'm going to get up and then I'm going to go and sit in my living room and do my work I do that it's actually I need to stop doing it it's because it's so mindless I honestly wake up my thumb I hold the phone to my screen my phone unlocks and I'm on Instagram. I haven't even like done a wee. It's so bad.

It's so bad. But then I think, you know, if we use a smoking analogy, I'm like, right, fine. So we're all addicted. Let's just like, let's vape or whatever. I don't know. Let's just do like something a little bit better. So, you know, follow better people. So for me at least, I'm like, okay, so I'm consuming a lot of shit here, but at least it's like

good shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's the platform shit, but the people are good. Yeah, exactly. Amazing. Okay. So onto your second thing that you wish you'd been taught in school. And I feel like this is going to be such a common one in this series. I did actually touch on it briefly with my first guest, but I think I want to talk about it again. Cause I think we just can't hammer this home enough. So you were like like I wish I've been taught that girls can enjoy sex basically I'm coming for the PSHE curriculum um what was it was taught in such a wonky way men learn about condoms and women watch videos of childbirth issues of consent female pleasure and contraception should be mandatory and inclusive I'd never thought about the fact

that we watch videos of childbirth I completely forgot about that yeah I have to say like I hear this conversation being had by much better and and smarter women than me and I'm like okay like no you know that's that like I it's super good for me because it's really interesting and to listen and to learn but I I just think back to my own my own PSAT lessons and I'm like oh like why didn't I realize this sooner because we I remember when we were taught about periods and they asked the boys to leave and we'd sat there and listened to them like talking about wet dreams so I'm like right so we we know that you jizz in your sleep but when my uterus lining shreds like that's that's

the line is it like it's so weird and um I don't know I'm sure you follow her because she's amazing but Jess Megan the conversation that she the conversations that she opens on Instagram about periods, I'm like, oh my God. I'm not a period positive person. I don't even have periods in them because I've got the coil in, but I look at the way she has the conversations about periods on her Instagram and I'm like, this is insane. The way we were taught to be so ashamed of them is absolutely fascinating. Men will watch like Gladiator and Game of Thrones and like Blood and Guts and Gore and everything. But the tampon adverts had to have blue ink because they didn't want to show blood on the TV. And it's like, oh my God, what? It's so weird. So now it's really been like an awakening quite recently because I don't think I realized how weird it was at the

time. But we were taught that we were going to make babies and they were going to have orgasms. And that's really stressed me out. No, you you're right and I didn't actually follow her before but I've just written her name down um there's so many things that I wish that I'd been taught when it came to sex like periods definitely but I feel like the way lucky the lucky thing I had was coming from a mum who's a nurse and having two older sisters I feel like I was always quite chill about periods in a way that um I feel like lots of other people weren't and I'm so I've was it's one of those things that you know when you first learn about feminism and you start to see all these things around you about periods and it just makes you so angry and I remember like making it

my mission to like always talk to all the guys in my life about periods I live with a guy when I first moved to London I would literally always tell him when I was in my period and like talk to him about my menstrual cup because I was like you fucking need to know what is going on but even even the conversation like you're saying around like sex for women was centered around childbirth and like um how to manage your periods but nothing about pleasure like there wasn't one conversation about like, also this feels good for you. I don't think they even mentioned the clitoris. No, I didn't know anything about it. And I think like, and this is a conversation that honestly, like I'm out,

where I'm going to take this is somewhere that I'm probably out of my depth to talk about. But I think that it's such a, if you can't talk about female pleasure and we never talk about that, then boys grow up to think, and we can't blame them because this is what they're taught. I mean, we can't, it's not this like fun act between two consenting adults it's the man doing it it's just it's such an odd um I don't even know how to it's just it's so weird and you know it's not like we're going straight out of school and then having sex to make a baby you know there's a lot that happens

in between like and and that's where it's just so complicated and it needs such a re like the the whole education sex education needs such a revamp because I mean, a revamp, it sounds like, Oh, making that gotcha. Like we're going to make this fun. Um, but it, it just needs, it needs serious, um, alterations because I just think, um, girls grow up with such low expectations of, of what sex is. And as a result, I don't think they respect themselves and their needs or their wants enough. And I think it causes a lot of problems and it's something that worries me a bit.

The more I talk about it and open these conversations up on my platforms, I'm just like, oh shit, like this is not good. So yeah. shit like this is this is not good um so yeah fandu casino daily jackpots guaranteed to hit by 11 p.m with your chance at the number one feeling winning which beats even the 27th best feeling saying i do who wants this last parachute i do daily jackpots a chance to win with every spin and a guaranteed winner by 11pm every day. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600.

Or visit connectsontario.ca. Select games only. Guarantee void if platform or game outages occur. Guarantee requires play by at least one customer until jackpot is awarded or 11pm Eastern. Restrictions apply. See full terms at canada.casino.fandu.com. Please play responsibly. No, you're right. And also exactly what you're saying about how you were like, we can't blame them I do think that almost it's difficult like the boys that were brought up in our generation we all bought into the same thing so like even if you were consenting something you weren't consenting to what we would now as like more grown-up women be like oh that would be good sex you're consenting to what you're taught is sex which is basically servicing a man or like making sure yeah so it's difficult then because I think that probably there's loads of younger guys who've maybe learned more about

feminism or learn about female sexuality who probably feel loads of guilt around lots of the sex they have because it was all just so misguided and as you say like some of that obviously has to they have to be held accountable before but some of it is just, of course, that was what was going to happen if that's what we're being taught in school. Yeah. And they, you know, the access that they have to sex is so different to the access women have because, or girls have, stop calling them women because they're girls. But, you know, we didn't have access to, I just, you know, the boys had porn and they watched porn there was no porn for women and there was no porn for girls and even if there was it wouldn't have been appropriate for them to watch it because you know the way that it was spoken was super misogynistic and and so not only did boys grow up being like okay well this is something that I'm going to do and this is the condom that I'm going to use because that's all I've ever

thought um or you know whatever um but then they you know they watch porn and so they're like this she'll love it if I like gives on her face and um and then girls are like oh well fuck I don't know because all I know is that one day I'm going to shove a baby out of there and you know it's just it's so messy we're just it's and you know like I know we're British and we're prudish and we don't really talk about this stuff and it is actually still quite new to me to talk about really because like I'm not sort of scared to talk about it but it is something that the more I educate myself the more amazing women that I follow the more I read the more I'm like oh my god there's so many things um and and I just yeah I can just see how intrinsically linked all of this is and um you know I think sport falls into you know what we talked about earlier the physical education comes into sex education and health and and mental health it's all connected um so yes it's

super interesting but it's it's a sort of PSHE side of things it's like the not academic side of so important it's interesting you're saying that they're so linked because when it comes to sport like we were both saying how we were so worried about how we would look when we're exercising for one so worrying about how desirable we would look and then also the only reason we would do exercise was to become more desirable by becoming smaller and then with sex again it is so tied in because it's all about succumbing to the male gaze and being attractive to men and basically servicing men's needs and when you think about how sinister that that's the undertone of the education we're having as young girls as young as 10 11 it just seems so much more sinister doesn't it I think it is you know it is incredibly sinister like that's the thing with and it's

really weird right so doing Instagram for a job and I'm sure you'll know this this, you're made to feel like it's a bit of like a silly job. And I do feel sometimes, you know, when I talk about social media, and I have talked about social media quite a lot in the mainstream media as part of, you know, my work, it's still like seen as so trivial and silly and something that like, you know, it's just those gals, like narcissists, you know, like they're all just being so like frivolous and, and, you know, one day they'll get a proper job and then they'll know the meaning of hard work or they'll marry or whatever, whatever. Right. So it's still

not taken seriously. And it's a real thing that I'm having to have with myself where the conversations that I open up on my platform and that I see other people having, I'm like, no, I need to take this shit seriously. And this is, it's, it's really funny because in my head, I'm still like, Oh, you know, what am I like? Like just, you know, sharing like stupid videos on, on Instagram or whatever. But actually the conversations that we're having are so important. And, you know, you don't want to be like super serious all the time, because still the connotations of feminism are like, oh, well, she's a man hating like bra burning, like Bir myself into being like, no, what you're saying is important. This isn't silly. It doesn't, you know, you're not, you're not this sort of stereotype. And even if you were, who gives a fuck? This is a really important conversation.

And, and it's, I, I, I try and strike a balance between, you know, not coming across like I'm always ranting about it and always moaning about it. But I do feel as we peel back every single layer that the, I mean, it's, it is, it's, it's misogyny. It's, it's extraordinary. You know, it's crazy what, what we've been taught and what we've grown up with and yeah. Okay. So we can work now and, you know, we're allowed to own our own houses and stuff and it's pretty great to be a woman but it's like and you know I know a lot of people will tell you that like feminism's done but it's like no no I'm not sending my kid I haven't got any kids but I'm not gonna send my kids out into this like cesspit of trouble um so yeah it's it's weird but like it's because it is so important and I think what just feels

weird is like that we're the ones talking about I'm like how many adults came before us like why has no one talked about this before do you know what I mean why is no one picked this yet well I think what's so interesting about social media I think there's so many different layers but you're right everyone trivializes kind of being an influencer, which is an annoying term that I use because by done of the fact that I do adverts, I technically am that thing, but it's definitely language which is designed to make women feel like what they're doing isn't important. But as you've said, some of the conversations that I have on my Instagram and the people that I engage with through this podcast, like they're really intellectual conversations. And I, again, I'm coming into contact with this information for the very first

time by the means of having a platform. And I'm sure there were, there definitely were countless women before us. It's just that through probably done a privilege and access and whatever women, actually it's because of the progress that those women have made that we've then been able to have these jobs where we have platforms and finally, know the freedom to discuss these things out in the open because I can't even imagine that 10 years ago women even if they were talking about it would have actually been allowed the agency to host these conversations about whatever kind of topics that we quite casually talk about now. And I think that's because Instagram and influencing is a female led space. So we have, we have the space to have these conversations.

And literally, I don't think there have been the spaces to have these with such a platform before because because the women that came before us have had to make their voices heard in really rooms full of men and yeah it's it's it's awesome actually like you know it's really cool that we we're so lucky aren't we it is yeah no exactly it's so cool when you think about when you look back that's I always think that when you think about feminism and how far we've come and all the women that came before us but then there's obviously so many things to do and to go especially like when it comes to intersectionality and not just thinking about like us as white women but obviously all those other people that have like different intersections of privilege we've got so far to come yeah it's interesting because I I feel that I think that's what I was trying to sort of say but really badly

before and that's pretty much like what this point is is I just feel massively underqualified um to be talking about these things and I and you know it's still you know when when something sits kind of wonky with you you're like oh god when I think back at the education I'm like weird weird weird that I like saw a woman having a baby but I didn't know where clitoris was like strange but like I know where my ovaries are but like I don't know where my g-spot is like strange you know these things feel weird but you know it's it's kind of having the confidence to stand up and be like you know know, this was definitely a thing. Um, and, and I, and I do feel massively under, underqualified to like call this, you know, call it out, hello, you know, just to even have these conversations. But I think that's kind of,

um, it's magic because I've learned so much from the women around me. Um, and I'm just, yeah, I'm like just really grateful for it because I think you know we we have access to to women that we maybe probably would never have found because you know we we do sort of you know you leave a school and then you go into like you stay with your same friends and you kind of stay in your same bubble and if you do a job or whatever you you know you wouldn't have access to this and the education that we are afforded now as grown-ups by being able to follow people with different experiences is just it's great and you can see where you're unified and where there are still differences and it's just you know it's it's keeping us all like open to learning and it's really um cool like and also

kind of irrespective of qualifications to be able to talk but the more that women talk about the stuff the less shame you feel and I now go in all guns blazing into any conversation with any group of women about anything whereas I definitely would feel like ideas about shame about certain things that now with any set of my friends I just don't give a shit whereas that's only been made possible by listening in to other women's conversations where they have like no holds barred conversations about sex, whether it's like a podcast, whether it's talking about masturbation, whatever it might be, even just by listening to other people, you can borrow a bit of their confidence and that just keeps spreading like wildfire,

which I think is amazing. Oh my God. Yeah. Like it's, you know, there's, there's stuff that you wouldn't like, I don't know. This goes back to the desirability thing. But like, I don't know. Like, I mean, I have IBS and that was such a source of shame to me. I'm like, oh my God, like everyone's going to know that I shit. And I remember like the best thing I ever learned

was my mum telling me once on the way home from school, she's like, even the queen poos. And I was like, that's going to change my life. And school she's like even the queen poos and I was like that's gonna change my life and now it's like I've just grown up to be like well I'm really sorry that you don't find my shit desirable sir but it's a massive inconvenience and I want to talk about it or you know whatever it is like it's it's prioritizing like myself and my needs and my health or whatever it is in any given moment or

my even my interest in and sort of you know replacing where I would have not been too confident enough to like have a conversation because I'd have been like oh well someone's gonna judge me or whatever or so they won't find me attractive or whatever I'm like okay well that's fine I'll lose that because I'd rather have the conversation do you know what I mean yes definitely completely our priorities like it's they all change it's really fun yeah and it gives you so much power like I think that that's one of the most amazing things that it's really hard to do when you're at school because like being a teenager psychologically like everything is about you that's kind of like at the stage your brain is at where you kind of it is so important to be popular and it's so important to fit in and you're desperate for that and then as you start to get older you realize how freeing

it is to be exactly who you want to be because then the people around you who resonate with that will find you whereas if you're spending a whole life kind of trying to fit into anyone else's expectations of you you'll constantly be disappointed by the people around you because you're technically not being yourself that's been a real like learning thing for me and because like I I think I always had confidence but I think it was probably just bravado like I I wasn't confident at school and I thought that I was too fat and too ugly and not funny and not this and not that. And, you know, my thoughts about myself were just so relentlessly negative. And I did, like, I just tried so hard to fit in.

And it's the weirdest and most liberating thing when you kind of grow. And again, this, you know, I'm making it sound like I walked out of school aged 18 and everything went glittery because it didn't. And this is stuff that I've learned over the last nearly 10 years. And actually, this is something that I've really learned this year. And it's that what other people think of me is none of my business. And that's a really hard thing at school because being popular is like super important. But as you get older, it's like you just, I don't know, you just, I just keep being like, I have not got that long here. Like, who knows? And I just want to be with people that make my heart happy.

And, you know, I didn't even care before, you know, when I was trying really hard to impress all these people, like I didn't even care what they were like. I didn't like a lot of them, but it never mattered because it was more important that they liked me. And I'm like, why? That was weird. Like, why was I spending time with people that I didn't like not being myself because I wanted them to like me when I could have just found people that I actually liked who liked me and that would have all been so much easier but I mean you know like why do the easy thing you know like as an adult it's just it's prioritizing your own needs like I need to be people that make me happy and and I wish I'd come to that sooner. Oh totally it's so funny you said that because I literally was talking to my friend the other day about dating and I was saying how I realized I used to go on a date and even if I didn't fancy a guy I would be so desperate for them to fancy me that that would

be all I'd be thinking about I wouldn't even have actually thought about like do I like them I just wanted them to like me it's so weird like so weird so weird and I think that's a thing about being a woman as well where you just you know it's really important that you're like palatable and you know you're not gonna cause anyone you're not gonna cause any problems are you you know you're just you're gonna just be like good good right it's good and quiet and it's it's the weirdest thing and it I feel like not a butterfly because that makes it sound like I've had like a real glow up but I feel like, not a butterfly, because that makes it sound like I've had like a real glow up, but I feel like a bear that's coming out of hibernation and I'm just like stretching.

And I'm like, look how big, like look how far my arms go. Like they just go to all these good places and I get to be in control of it. And it's the most, that's a really bad analogy, but it's the most like freeing, the butterfly one would have worked better. It's the most freeing thing to just be able to like it doesn't make you a bad person it doesn't make you unlikable it doesn't make you

selfish it just makes you happy and and that I never prioritized happiness for myself when I was at school um because it was all about making other people happy I guess or other people thinking I was cool or whatever yeah I think we just have a really warped understanding of what's important and then as you start to get older and the world kind of creeps in more and more and you have more lived experiences you realize that like some stuff just isn't as important as it felt yeah and I wonder like I do think for myself now I'm like I wonder if I didn't do Instagram would I have come to this these realizations now because I really think you know like

I've become a real sucker for like those I guess they're memes but I'm like god they're like hitting me in the feels like they're completely changing my entire perception of myself and I found a I have a life coach now which feels incredibly American but I don't hate it and I you know I'm being open about my mental health and in just in ways that I never would have been before ever um because you know I didn't want to be I think I wanted to be, I think I wanted to be interesting, but I never wanted to be complicated. And now as an adult, like I'm an incredibly complicated person. And that's fine. Because women aren't just like 2D second, like magazine pictures. We're like 3D whole, pooing, laughing, like people, you know.

No, I completely agree I also think that sometimes I'm like I wonder where I'd be because I've learned so much from having constant feedback from people which sometimes isn't nice but yeah I do think as a platform weirdly it's kind of made me grow in the best way maybe because you almost become responsible for other people I don't know it does it is an interesting I think it's a very interesting position to be in it definitely could be very harmful but I also feel the same in that like I wonder what kind of woman I would be if I hadn't started creating a platform I'm like spiraling now thinking I'm like shit like where would I be did you read the midnight library yet no do I need to read it yeah you need to read it but it's a it's a lot of

the what ifs and it's actually it was an incredibly profound book I can't stop thinking about it with that in mind because because I I have been very anxious through really throughout my whole life I just think I didn't have a name for what it was before. And, and a lot of my life now is about managing those feelings. And yeah, that's, you know, that, yeah, the book really helped with that, I think. And I mean, lots of things, running helps and talking helps and, and, you know, realizing when I'm drinking too much wine helps and, you know, like, there's loads of stuff stuff that I can do like, you know, to manage it. But I found that book to be just incredibly, I keep thinking about it.

I'm like, ooh, like, wow. And I love books that make you do that. Oh yeah, I know the concept, but it does sound really good. I actually should, I can't believe no one's ever done that idea before because it's such like a, it's such a fun idea to think about

of like all the lives you could have led. Yeah, I just have to put like a time cap on myself for like thinking time about it like if I think for like too long I'm like whoa like existential crisis yeah literally I'm like oh my because like there's nothing that scares me more than space I'm like it's so big oh no I have to stop myself otherwise I I'm like down a hole okay well I'm gonna bring you back down to earth with the third thing that you wish you were taught in school um and that is how to do your fucking tax returns this one this one came from like somewhere deep um I just I'm such a fucking shit adult all the time. Like everything I do, I, I just, you know, like I get like every time I drive into London, I forget to pay congestion charge and I live here and I've

always lived here. Like, I'm like, how, how have I done that? And you know, like the council tax, like months happened so quickly and I'm like, Oh God, it's council tax time again. And then, you know, and then it's tax return time. And I'm I don't get it like and why don't why did no one you know why didn't this come up before um and why are microwaves that bad you know I have so many questions about that just should have come up sooner but yeah the tax thing was a real stickler because I just think how are you expecting people to go out and make money and burst bolt not burst balls but you know bust balls whatever the expression is and then you know and then and then just leave them like go out there career and then you'll probably go to prison because you won't have paid your taxes nothing reduces me to tears more than a long phone call with my accountant so he rung me the other

day um because I've got a business card now and I'd like accidentally done some personal on my business and business on my business or whatever I got it wrong and he started explaining all this stuff to me and my boyfriend I had him on speaker my boyfriend was just nodding along and I was slowly slowly just like hyperventilating more and more because I didn't understand what I was like what the fuck is going on and it was stressing out so much and Matt was like my boyfriend's like it's actually very very simple you just got to do this and I was like oh but on the in the phone call I was like it's actually very very simple you just got to do this and I was like oh but on the in the phone call I was like oh wow so I've just like ruined my whole accounts like I it's just the language I just don't I don't understand any of it and it really makes me stressed it's really stressed and you know like I yeah I mean I feel like it's an annoying thing because there's

sometimes where and I really put myself down because I'll be having a conversation with a grown up and they'll say something. And I'm like, hmm, no, like no idea. And so I have to ask them, can you say that in layman's terms? And, you know, I didn't even really know what layman's terms were. I was like, I don't know, that'd be another language. But, you know, it's like, it's not embarrassing, but it's frustrating because yeah like I have an interest in things like I'm an I'm an interested person I read a bunch like you know and and still when there's stuff like you know accounts or whatever it is that's happening I'm just like

like how do I not understand this like I'm working with a lawyer for the first time at the moment about something and he talks to me and I'm like this might as well be Arabic I have no idea what what you're saying and it and and then I feel like such a fool to be like okay can you say it again he said again so oftentimes I'm just like yeah okay thanks and then I go no well that was terrible that that shouldn't have happened and that annoys me because you know that's I mean that does come down to my own lack of confidence but you know it's hard to be confident when you, when you don't know and you, and you feel a bit stupid. So yeah, there's a bit of resentment for me. I'm just like, God, I wish, you know, like, why did I learn so much algebra when I could have been like,

but I mean, I totally agree. And I think what you just said there is really important though. And it's something that I'm actually quite good at and I used to think it was a silly thing but I've realized I'm really good at asking people something if I don't understand it and I used to think that that was like a really annoying quality of it because I just really want to know and I've actually learned as an adult being inquisitive and like saying when you don't know is actually a really good skill to have because no one lots of people don't ask if it's embarrassing and once you ask like someone else will go oh actually I don't really know what that is and then you all talk about it rather than I think half of adulting

is walking around pretending you know what you're talking about and then just googling it quietly and then you know what Alex tells me to google things all the time like it's the most frustrating like I'm like oh babe um I don't know like can you connect the wife do you know how to connect the wife where it's like can you just google it I'm like no that's why I'm asking you don't make me goofy I'll be down this hole for like five and a half hours and we both know it it's gonna really annoy me but obviously I get super like hanksy when someone tells me to google it but you're so right because when I you know I've got the have a go the have a go page and we say there's no such thing as a stupid question because in fitness you know you really can be made to feel like an absolute

moron if you do you know like oh what's a macro and everyone just you know you can hear like a pin drop so you know I think it's super important that we you know that we we are able to ask questions but there is something in me when it comes to business and I've got to stop this where I just I'm like I'm just I'm just gonna be oh I'm so silly I'm so silly what am I like sorry you know and I really like ham up the like dips thing I'm like what am I doing like I'm a I'm fine you know and it's it's a really like bad um pattern that I find myself falling in when I feel out of my depth with something so yeah I'm gonna work on that no I think that's I think that's completely normal because I think it's like almost trained within you where you like go like as you never really talk about money when you're little as a as a girl especially and then all the language around money is sort of like

spend and splurge and shopping spree and men's is all like invest and save and and so I think then even then we kind of assume even if I was just thinking about then I was like actually I have learned loads about my my my finances recently but I feel almost nervous to say that because there will still be so many things that I don't understand and I think it's like we're falling back into that comfortable feeling of acting like you said like a silly little girl because that's what we're brought up to believe that oh oh don't you worry about money like you it's not nothing to do with you you just go and buy yourself a nice little dress whatever that's actually super interesting because I mean even I actually looking at just like the dynamics in my own relationship because you know they always say like that when they look

at like job applications and stuff you'll very often find like a male person a man will a male person a man will apply for the job even if he hasn't got the qualifications whereas a woman yes may not you know there is there's a quote about or a statistic that I can't remember but and I actually look at that um dynamic within like mine and Alex's relationship because he goes for stuff with masses of confidence and not much necessarily to back it up but then you know like I might be really super qualified and I'm like nah I'm just gonna sit this one out like you you go and you know I really don't let myself I maybe just don't want to look like a fool or I don't know what it is but it's a real like confidence and I think you're right like we're just you know we weren't we I don't know like

it still annoys me like all the rhetoric surrounding women in work it's still like boss boss babe and girl boss oh yeah I hate that you know and it's like yeah so that's probably why I feel like a bit of a twat sometimes um but it's interesting because again we have a career that that people don't necessarily take seriously so it's you know it's kind of maybe sometimes I think I want to make the joke before somebody else makes it be like oh what you know like me and my silly job you know it's all there like oh you and your silly job and then I have like the burning shame of them saying I have a silly job you know it's so yeah I need to get over this I'm realizing I'm saying it out loud I'm like this isn't good but no it's so true that I think that and then I realized

actually I handle negotiations on my own I do like as we've just been saying we do our own taxes I handle all my all of my accounts that I am we're very much a walking talking marketing manager um like content creator, model. Everything we do is our own business. And you're not coddled at all in this industry. It's really like the Wild West. And so if you have an agency or something, you can be helped out. But it's actually in some ways very difficult to kind of manage this kind of career as opposed to something where perhaps there's a very structured layers to it.

And, you know, you've got someone telling you what to do that like for all its frivolity that people think it is a business at the end of the day and like you'll meet people who run social media accounts for brands and they'll be like oh my god what you do is actually really hard I know now because I you know run this social media account for this brand and for some reason interesting sorry it's completely interrupted you but you just reminded me of something carry on oh no I was just going to say that if say if I was a social media brand manager for a brand people would be like oh my god is that an amazing job but that is what I do for myself yeah do you know what I mean you're an amazing brand so yeah but yeah no I was just thinking that actually because it was quite like I don't know like

again maybe because I don't take my job as seriously as I should but having done lockdown with I did it with my family so I did it my mom my brother and my sister my fiance now and my best mate and her boyfriend and I've always worked on my own and you know I've worked from my living room whilst Alex goes to work and you know my you know I'm like don't live with my family it's the weirdest thing having had them watch me work because still I'm chatting about and talking about that and I you know and I can like you know my my brother and my sister's a student but my brother and Alex both would be working you know super like you know regimented hours so I was I'd feel like guilt if I was like you know sitting with my mum in the kitchen drinking a cup of tea

when they were working and and I've been like oh I don't work as hard as him I don't work as hard as him and I actually had a chat with my brother the other day and he was like I could never do what you do and I'm like oh so that was I mean I don't know why I had to wait for the affirmation but it was like it was really interesting like seeing my own job through somebody else's gaze I guess so I don't know I think we're quite hard on ourselves and not influencers but women people you know we're hard on ourselves and I think I had a lesson sorry it's a lot a lesson for a lot of people like with working from home like I think people realize how hard they work and how much they do and you know what I mean oh totally I was just about to say I've had the exact same experience where I felt like oh my god because my boyfriend

does such regulated work whereas I might be like part of my work might be literally listening to podcasts reading books thinking about content which looks to other people like you're having fun which you are but it's like all part of part of your work and I said the exact same thing with my boyfriend where I started this really weird like inferiority complex because I wasn't on the phone to Hong Kong talking about whatever they talk about and he was he said the exact same thing to me so I could never ever do what you do I just give up straight away like that takes so it actually takes not to now stop bringing us uploads but it does take quite a lot of self control and self-determination and self-belief to like work at something which also is so

fragile and honestly could be taken away from you at like the drop of a hat sort of thing that's my other existential crisis that I have I'm like I could wake up tomorrow my whole career is over and that's exhausting yeah but I know it was interesting because yeah it just and I guess that's been the same for a lot of people this year um but just you know like it's taking yourself seriously and you know even it within the working space and talking to accountants and lawyers and you know like the jobs are so I think when we think of jobs I'm like like you said like you're over and like talking to Hong Kong like I'm like money and like the city and like that's what like you know TV kind of showed as like a like a serious job and actually there are so many amazing jobs out there

and and people doing amazing things and I I love seeing like, you know, flexi working and working from home and part-time work and small business owners. And we're all just getting to see so much more of that now with social media and with the lockdown, perhaps as well as exacerbated it. So it's quite, it's quite cool to see just what the face of work changing as well. Yeah, I totally agree.

Sorry, I keep interrupting you no I completely agree I think it's really amazing to see that like level also the fact that this one thing that gave me a tiny bit of like um huh is that everyone was like it's so hard to work from home and I was like oh my god this is one thing I'm actually really good at this is my time to shine let me show you my serious pajamas yeah exactly oh oh my god well thank you so much for joining me I've literally loved chatting to you I feel like we could be here quite literally all day because I was about to this I was like we could go like we'd be down another path about careers and then that's like it'll be tomorrow so it'd be forever oh well so thank you so much for joining me and if people want to find you online um tell us about where we should be going and if there's

any other things that you want us to look out for or look at oh my god I wish I had something I wish I'd done something cool to plug uh no I just have I just have my Instagram which is um like em which it's a that's a source of of confusion but um underscore clarkson and then i have my other page if anybody's looking to try and get into sports next year as things finally open up we're going to start going to triathlons and running events around the uk trying to make them i'm not trying we are going to make them just more inclusive and more fun so we're going to be taking teams to a few events next year so if anyone's wanted to do an event and been absolutely shitting themselves come and shit yourself with us and that's just um at the have a goes on instagram as well and

oh my god so fun i want to come along to that what i do but how's that much fun we've got some places sorted we've got a 10k we've got a duathlon. It's going to be fun. Amazing. Oh, okay. Well, thank you so much again. And thank you everyone for listening. And I will see you next week. Bye.

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