Adulting - Adulting 2.0: Annie Lord

Episode Date: March 5, 2023

Hey Podulters! Welcome to Adulting 2.0: The Timelines.Annie Lord is a journalist and author. Her debut book 'Notes on Heartbreak' was released in 2022 and I loved it. You will also find Annie writing her dating column in Vogue.In this episode we discuss breakups, partying, fears of aging, being single in your mid-late twenties, the importance of friendships and so much more. I hope you enjoy, and as always please do rate, review and subscribe. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When a body is discovered 10 miles out to sea, it sparks a mind-blowing police investigation. He's one of the most wanted men in the world. This isn't really happening. Officers finding large sums of money. It's a tale of murder, skullduggery and international intrigue. So who really is he? I'm Sam Mullins and this is Sea of Lies from CBC's Uncover. Available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you're well in this week's episode I speak to journalist and author Annie Lord

Annie also has a dating column in Vogue and her debut book Notes on Heartbreak which I absolutely loved came out last year we have a really fun discussion

we talk about breakups being single in your mid to late 20s partying the fear of aging and so much more I absolutely love

speaking to Annie and I really hope you enjoy listening as always please do rate, review and subscribe as it helps other people to find the podcast. Bye.

Obviously we first met, it was quite fortuitous actually because we met in a van and I'd literally just come out of like a long relationship. Yeah. And your book, I don't think was out yet,

but you were telling me about. Yeah, I was writing it. I remember because we we were at a book launch weren't we and then I remember we went out for a cig and then no you can't say that no you can't don't worry and then no I just remember us getting on really well and then going on this like mad drunken night where we ended up in um all by one I know and then got a rickshaw back to Ballam and that was the first time we met and we were up to like five in the morning yeah and we I remember at the beginning of the night I was like oh this is dangerous like we're not good at like calling it a night and you're like oh no I'm that person and then we didn't call it a night we never called it a night and it was a Monday yeah I think but it

was like pre-Christmas so I felt like it was like yeah it was festive so I read notes on heartbreak that last year at the beginning of last year I think it was one of the first books I read and I loved it and I wonder for people who haven't read it can you tell us a bit about the book like the story how it came about so it's basically a memoir about me and my ex breaking up but it's also kind of I would say like a meditation on love and heartbreak and yeah and just it goes through like lots of different things that sort of influenced me or that I took from when I was going through the heartbreak like different films or like um songs or books and things like that that I took things from and it's kind of written in like a stream of consciousness way just as I'm like processing things and it was kind of like almost was like a diary for me as I

was going through it because people are like oh how was it to you know go back to how you were feeling at that time but I was literally sort of writing it as I was going through it because people are like oh how was it to you know go back to how you were feeling at that time but I was literally sort of writing it as I was going through the breakup myself and it just really helped me process like all the feelings I was having and it took me a long time but I still think it made it quicker if I hadn't written it I feel like heartbreaks like having a heartbroken or going through a breakup is one of those things that they never get easier like it doesn't matter how many times you have them and I've had about 12 they always are so difficult oh no I was like hurriedly banking it wouldn't be bad the second time but what how did that change like your timeline because obviously like you're in your 20s it was quite a serious relationship you maybe thought this could be the

person that was your forever person like how much did that change your trajectory and did it kind of knock you because even though we're still young like I think when you're having these quite serious relationships it does suddenly jar you because you have to like recalculate all of these plans you had in your head for the future yeah it's really weird actually because like you know people are like oh you'll do so much better without him or like everything happens for a reason like it's so weird because like my life is so different now to when I was with him and like it's just each thing that happens seemed to come out so good but it's like I don't know if that is because of anything other than like when you are who you are things will turn out in a good way it just

seems like in retrospect it was because of certain things that happened say someone breaking up with you that it happened do you know what I mean like I don't know it's just like you know he broke up with me and then I wrote an article about it and then I got an agent and then I got a book deal and then I got a vogue column and then I've made so many friends you know what I mean it's like a weird thing like I wonder but I think maybe if like you know we'd have stayed together I would have I could have thought the same thing about if we'd have broken up do you know what I mean I might be like oh my god I've written a book about so I actually think probably similar good things would have happened it might have just been later down a lot later down the line like I wasn't ever thinking about writing a book when I was I

was in my 20s and I was still struggling to get into journalism like I think it would have been like oh you know when I'm 30 40 when I'm really confident I'm gonna try and take some time out of work and do that and just all have a lot quicker I think I've had the same experience but after a breakup really good things happen and you can cleverly like like you say retrospectively be like oh my god it's because I'm free from the relationship and I have found every time I've been like coming to being single after a relationship that wasn't working I have kind of flourished and I think a bit like Moya maybe Moya didn't ask the other day about how we're very quick to kind of turn men into villains and I think sometimes it's really fun to be like oh my god it's because of them but maybe it's just because

it doesn't mean that they were evil or they were really awful or terrible but it's just that the fact that you're no longer in a relationship that just isn't right maybe on both sides yeah you then have space and also you have so much time back like when you're in a really serious relationship I think you don't realize how much time you just spend investing in that relationship even if it's just like hanging out in the evenings together or cooking together spending your weekends whereas when you're single you do get like 40% of your time back if not more yeah completely like you go I think like when you're in that amount of pain you do go through like this rapid growth and I think it's like yeah even like you know at the beginning I think you focus on everything you did wrong and then you kind of

focus on everything they did wrong and get really angry and then I think you just think about the whole situation and all the things that are wrong but like it's really frustrating that you can't like afterwards I felt like I you know that crazy meme where that guy's like pointing at the like note board and there's this like lines of thing like like a detective yeah yeah you feel a bit like that where you can just see everything that's wrong and you can see that you could have fixed it if you were in it but it's like you can't fix it while you're in it only after and it's like I think yeah I think that's why you do just progress in so many ways so quickly because you've just had so much time to calibrate everything that was going on it's really funny now I've been single for like three years or something like

how I think if I was with someone now it would really throw me in the sense I've become so stuck in my ways and like I I'm like I wake up and I read for half an hour and I go to the gym and then I do this and I'm gonna eat this meal and you become so particularly because you have all this time to really like settle into how you want to live and I think if someone like entered that I would feel so anxious and like not in a good way but I've become so rigid almost in my routines like I think love makes you a bit crazy and like everything gets thrown in the air a little bit I also think I so I have a couple of grandparents who've been single for probably still a matter of time and they were been single for probably some amount of time

and they were like, the longer you're single, the harder it is to see why you would ever want to introduce someone back into your life. Because like you said, you have all these like, almost like freedoms

because you can do things as you want to. And I do think sometimes in a relationship as a woman, we, there was that article the other day, I can't, I'm going to butcher it. I think it was in the Guardian and she was like, women bend so naturally that, do you know the one I'm talking about?

Oh yeah, yeah. But I do think that's true that we are better adapting, especially in like, heterosexual relationships towards what the man wants or needs and so we do actually like, all of these things

where like, I wake up in the morning and read all that stuff. It's like, you should be able to do that in a relationship. Actually, often I do think as a woman,

we do take that role of sort of, not pandering, but there is some subconscious like subservience that I think is still left over from that I I do think I've maybe got to the point where I need someone to like but you know I think I have become a bit rigid in my thing I feel like I maybe would benefit from someone being like relax you can do that or like introducing a bit of I don't know I'm I am kind of chaotic though in other ways but it's yeah like I guess when you're single you don't get challenged much on your lifestyle because your friends I suppose they could but they're not they're not your flatmates might

notice certain habits but yeah I think when you're in a relationship someone can be like have you ever thought about like the way you're doing this you know going to the gym this much might be a bit weird or like um that kind of stuff I just think I've like you know that stereotype of like a bachelor yeah bachelor pad I just think I'm like I love that yeah like I'm super happy but it's just I worry I wonder not worry I wonder what it will be like in a relationship again like I'm quite intrigued to see what would happen but maybe you'd find someone that has that groove already because if that's like a really massive contrast to how you were living when you went with a partner maybe if you met someone else they would also be someone who likes reading in the morning go to the gym which by the way doesn't sound like something someone needs to be telling

off for oh it was just me trying to like flex on the podcast I love how you say that and then we're like but when you get a rickshaw back to Ballam from Soho at five in the morning that's fine but waking up and reading in the morning that is really bad do you think because I always wondered this I do think this is true that you can't have everything right like everything going well like I saw a tweet the other day which I thought was so true it was like how is everyone doing life how are you managing relationships work friendships exercising getting like all at the same time and I do sometimes think I found that like when I have come out of a relationship often it is my work that does really well because I think you have

more time to balance things out do you think that you could find time now now that you've been single for would you be looking for another relationship or love I don't know god it's so true that like i at the minute i went to like see a posture specialist because i must have my shoulders started hurting and like he's giving me all these back exercises to do and i'm like oh my god like now i've got a fucking sore my back and then i've got like you know drink like floss and like you know like warm up before you go to the gym or like eat veg it's just like so many things and I'm just like I don't understand you I wonder if you did all those things in a day like whether you could do earn a living do you know what I mean I think you could genuinely fill your day with like

those tasks that everyone's meant to do but doesn't do I have tried to start flossing because I've literally never flossed in my life but I was like I because I keep paying for like teeth whining and I was like I should probably just floss but yeah it's so true like I've definitely feel like family friends work and relationships like one is floundering and I definitely like would say probably relationships isn't but I also kind of rather that the most people aren't flounders because it's like the other things feel so essential to my happiness whereas like having a partner doesn't much although also with part of that it's like I think like you might not need a boyfriend but maybe happiness and romance could be like flirting or nights out or like masturbating or like there's so many romantic things that could

take that role if you weren't with someone and maybe in that sense it is kind of still like I'm still fulfilled in that way it just might not be the typical thing but yeah I do I want a relationship I don't know I almost think it's weird when people go out on dates and they're like oh it's not what I'm looking for right now I'm looking for this like I could be looking for like to have casual sex or looking for relationship it depends who I meet you know what I mean like someone could be good enough where I'm like god I could spend so long with you like that would be cool or it could be someone where it's like this could just be fun for us to hang out for a bit and it's funny that people dismiss things so much when it isn't what they want actually that's not

what I'm looking for right now yeah like who knows what they're looking for do you know what I mean like maybe you get to a point where if you want that whole like wedding kids thing that makes sense that you would look for a specific thing but unless you want that like I really like what you said about because I agree I think we're not taught enough when we're like younger how important it is to have like really a value of friendships your friends that like nothing that's gonna go and like try and make your career if you can I mean loads of people hate that work but something satiating and like have all your hobbies and then in a weird way like romance coming in last i kind of think makes sense but we're taught to like value romance so much and then actually that could be really

isolating like loads of people get into relationships they stop seeing their friends that and then when you're in that love bubble that's amazing but then when you could sometimes when you come up for air you look around and you haven't actually got anything else yeah whereas actually it is kind of a nicer way to live if you're nourished in every area and then you're flirting or you're having casual sex or you've got like people to text or that that almost in a weird way sounds more fulfilling and there are those studies about how women like when you get into when you get married or when you enter into really serious relationship the happiness levels actually go down because it takes away so much of those other

external things that you get from life it's interesting I remember like really thinking when I was in a relationship that when we were like breaking up like thinking I would rather be with you than be happy like that felt like that and it's so weird to be consciously aware that I might be happier on my own but being like no I need this like I can't imagine not having this and it's so strange no I've definitely felt that before when you know it's like or even that feeling of I know we're not right together and I know both of us will be happy with someone else but I don't want that to happen yeah I want to help you yeah it's weird I think it's because it is like a drug and it's like an addiction and even if you're not codependent I think relationships are inherently on some level have like some semblance of codependency especially when you've known

each other for such a long time and I think that was something like the way you wrote about I told you this but when I was reading the book I it was like I had a really good breakup and I wasn't that sad about it because we left at a point when we were kind of ready to leave it but I was crying more reading your book than I cried about my breakup because it reminded me of all the times when my heart had been really broken the way you wrote about it was like so beautiful thank you what did you find that experience of sharing that because it's quite a vulnerable you're very candid and open in the book and you're really young were you concerned about like exposing yourself that much and obviously the book's done really well how what's the kind of how's that shifted things was that nerve-wracking or did you just

focus on the writing and then forgot about the audience I definitely was focusing on the writing and like I do I am someone that does lack shame I would say like when I meet people I definitely overshare a lot and I'm like oh my god I just nearly pissed myself running for the bus or like and it's definitely like a way I bond with people even if that is a strange or stupid way to bond with people but I but then it's weird sometimes I do get moments I think especially when it's when it's women I don't care at all but sometimes like I had like a guy friend be like oh yeah I started reading it I don't realize you're that sad and I've just felt so like weird and I I was like, no, it's fine. I was fine.

And I guess it's like, it's almost like you're showing like things you might say to a lot of different people, but there's some people you wouldn't have said it to. And then it's, they've seen it, which is can be kind of weird. But I guess when you talk to people about it, they do talk in an abstract way.

If they'd have picked, I think when people pick up on certain bits, I can be a bit, oh God, like, but but yeah I don't have to face that that often basically I can actually remember specific quotes when you're like I think you're talking about having an orgasm and you're like my petals came off one by one or something like that and there's another bit also talking about the coming and you're like and we fell into a milky sleep isn't that mad I can remember that oh that's so lovely I remember my poor dad I was like I'm gonna give you a redacted version I almost like you know in like when they like cover it over like black marker but then I didn't and poor guy read it but

but you know what's funny I think in the context of reading it as a broader thing you can kind of like understand it more and also knowing other people are reading it did he do you think he could get that separation or do you think he was a bit like I don't know I I think my parents are just very tolerant yeah I'm sure we probably scammed and read some bits of there's a code of mesmerism I don't know what do you think it's like have you learned much from that experience of that heartbreak and sharing it and has it made you I guess have you been single for three years is that different from how you would have imagined you'd be approaching relationships do you think that you've learned a lot in terms of proper because you really mediated on it you literally wrote the

whole book about you know finding love losing that love going through jealousy heartbreak wanting them again yeah yeah I mean it's funny because I still go on about it so much like and then you do have a couch yourself you're like god shut up like why are you still talking about him do you know what I mean I'll be on the phone to my mum and you're like psychoanalyzing something from like so long ago and it's like god go over it like yeah I wonder if I would still be that harping on as much as I do or if it's made it worse yeah I don't know I guess like luckily and unluckily it's just impossible to find like great

men a lot of the time so it's like it's really hard like it's it's a blessing and curse that being single is quite like I don't see myself finding anyone for a long time basically um yeah I don't really feel a pressure with that and like I think I would like to write about myself in some capacity like for as long as like forever but I guess with dating it would depend if I met someone I really liked I would so love to read a column like where someone was writing about their relationship I guess like obviously that would completely depend on someone else and I feel like it would just make it weird but I feel like that would be so fun I feel like I don't I don't know if it's in Sex and the City or if this is actually an actual column but I feel like there would be so fun I feel like I don't I don't know if it's in sex in the city or for this is actually an actual column but I feel like there was someone like documenting the

beginning like them falling in love when it was like I guess you could do it if it was anonymous but then the author would probably have to be anonymous to the partner yeah I know what you mean like really truthfully what it's kind of like because you're right everyone's sort of open talking about dating and then the minute people are kind of together it suddenly is like it's a no-go area yeah it's interesting though because I've noticed like when I first wrote the column I think maybe it was a confidence thing but I would you know really like describe the guy in the situation and like wanted to be kind of gossipy and then but then I like it's funny recently I've just not really described the guy

I've just been like like redhead man or something and it's like I've noticed no one cares and I think it's people just care about like how you were responding to something else how someone made you feel and not who they are and like that's been so so nice and really taken away off because I'm not embarrassing myself as much by like having to talk about someone I know and then them know how I feel about it like I mean people can probably read it and glean from it if it's them but I'm not like massively described I don't know that was that was something I didn't need to have done really which is quite nice how do they how do they respond to like to being written about do you have to tell them

beforehand or yeah well it depends like if I go on a date and there's just nothing I just write about it and just change enough where they wouldn't know it was them or like if I like them I've just said and they've known and I've like sent them bits which is really weird or like what I guess at the minute it's funny because I'll write something and I'm like I'll never know and then like I was in a smoking area with my friend the other day and I was like oh god he like mentioned something about like oh you must have liked him because you like wrote about it in the column or something and I was like because I just really thought and I just the thought of him reading it and being like oh yeah she likes me or sort of made me cringe so much but it's funny how

much we can betray like with our words or the way that we act about things without us because there are we do have blind spots to ourselves yeah where we think we're being like really clever yeah and it's funny how much you can give away I guess you kind of are in a way living like the Carrie Bradshaw career is it like that is your life it's so funny actually because it's such a glam job to say you have and like sometimes I love saying it but then sometimes I was like, because I know now sometimes I don't say it

when people are like, what do you do? I'm quite vague. I'm like culture generous or whatever because like I was in the dentist once. Like I'm a dentist, like I was such a child but it was still like near where my parents live in Leeds and so I'd go every like Christmas or like when I'm back for my birthday or whatever

and like he was like, oh, what do you I was because I was at home I was just in that proper like troll mode where I had like really horrible star print pajamas on in the dentist yeah like and just like really greasy hair like proper breakout and I was like oh am I dating columnist for Vogue and I think he must have thought I was lying he was like oh yeah nice nice and then I was just like he thinks I'm insane so it's yeah that was weird but and then also sometimes I notice myself talking about in like a really icky way where like I think I come off like quite stupid a lot of the time and like I am quite ditzy and like say like seven million times sorry to everyone listening and when I'm

talking to people sometimes I can tell they think I'm like stupid I don't really want to speak to me or like aren't really listening and I'll just start like dropping in like career things like about I've written a book and then you just feel so icky after because you just like that was such a cheap way of gaining respect because it's like we spoke about this before I think we're having lunch and we're saying how sometimes people can think we're really dumb so then we try and add in like really clever work because i think also if you're a blonde woman i know i'm not that blonde anymore who like dresses up and like likes going out and yeah and has an interest in i don't know pop culture and fashion stuff people men especially can just automatically you can just see their eyes going oh she's thick and so i will try and then insert something really clever usually then it will come out really wrong

and be like word salad and it's really embarrassing but you are really clever and the way you write I told you this I couldn't would never be half the writer you are like the way that you write is just incredibly beautiful and maybe you think I think some people think through their mouths I think I process through my mouth and I think you process through writing and your words and that's just it's different communication but you're obviously not done but I know what you mean about I have had that a lot of times when you just feel really like infantilized and reduced and you're like you can't see me I'm not and weirdly sometimes I think I play into that wrong kind of enjoy it like not I'm not so that person like at school they like pretend to be dumb but

I'm just quite comfortable sometimes with people thinking that and then I I don't know or I'll I think because I'm quite a people pleaser sometimes for instance like if someone's talking about something and I know about it but I can tell that they're enjoying telling me about it I'll like indulge that and then it's it's really stupid I don't know I've had things where like someone's telling me about an album and I've listened to the album and I'm just nodding along and that's horrible I haven't if I knew someone was doing that to me I'd be so annoyed because it's it's really stupid I don't know I've had things where like someone's telling me about an album and I've listened to the album and I'm just nodding along and that's horrible I haven't if I knew someone was doing that to me I'd be so annoyed because it's just embarrassing but I just do do that sometimes and I don't know why because it doesn't make you people like you more but I yeah it's just a weird habit I know you mean and also sometimes it's quite a safe place to let people

have like low assumptions about you because then you've got nothing to prove and you can just kind of hang back I think as well when you're like it's it's less of a wet growing up when you're a woman it's it's not as seen as an important thing about your identity that you're really smart like I've never felt like I had to prove that because it wasn't like oh I'll gain more respect from that until later on when I went to uni and I was like oh my god I really want to start like that's cool but at school and stuff it wasn't part of being popular being smart so I'd like if people think I'm dumb it doesn't offend me as much as maybe someone who went to a different school or like was a guy or whatever yeah I completely I definitely think now that I'm older I don't maybe it's cultural as well I do think there's like a been a cultural shift towards intellect being something that we like champion

more in women as you said when we're younger it's literally just like do you have a thigh gap if not which I never did um and so yeah I agree I think I value intelligence loads and I feel like I've got way less clever since the pandemic I don't know why my brain's just like rotted yeah we were it's actually interesting I was talking to Sean about this and I know we were saying about like would you rather be I don't know who oh I and I was talking to Sean about this and we were saying about like, would you rather be, I don't know who, oh, and I was, my flatmate is the one who mentioned it, but she was saying about, would you rather someone think you're boring or ugly? And I was like, oh, a hundred percent. I'd rather think that I was boring. Really? And then she was like, God, what? Like I'm really

confident in the fact that I'm good looking if someone thought I was boring. But then what became interesting is who we were thinking of saying it. So my mind immediately went to a guy in a bar right so I was like I don't care if you think I'm boring I know I'm not boring like cool whatever I want to be hot and then someone like else was saying oh I thought of like a woman that I like respect and them thinking I'm boring and then I was like oh obviously in that case I'd rather them think I was ugly but it's so tragic my brain went like you know when it's like who's like the objective like judge of you're adjudicator in your head yeah it was like a man that's really funny now I do worry about because I think and I'm learning this more and more especially since I've been doing dry jam which I cannot stop talking about I realize I actually have a massive fear that I'm

boring and like a bit like you, like I am bad. I'm the friend that everyone can rely on to go out with them. And I realized part of that, like since I've not been going out, I'm like, oh my God, is that actually me?

Or am I just terrified of being boring and think that I'm, unless I'm like really loud, really fun, always being like a little bit obnoxious that I'm actually really boring. And I've realized like, I'm trying to interrogate. Maybe that's where that's coming from or I just do like having god yeah I relate to that so much because I think especially when people put an expectation on that when you're out you're going to create fun and I don't know if it's like a Gemini thing but like very split

personality like I'm can sometimes go out and be like I haven't had a single thought since I've sat here like and it'll be like watch I remember having a thing recently I was just in a real funk with socializing I was at brunch with my friends and I was watching them and I was like you're all so funny like why are you hanging out with me I've literally nothing to say and I think part of it is like having friends where they appreciate like the waves of your moods and like how yeah sometimes I can just be like and then sometimes just complete flat line i'm just there for vibes so i can be really really quiet and like my really close friends know that if i'm in like a big group and people don't know that if i'm in quite honestly they will turn around and be like

is it only okay and then so i don't do it that much and i'm trying to learn to be like i don't always have to i'll want to fill any i feel like it's my responsibility in a group if like if there's an awkward moment or if there's silence, I've got to fill it. And I'm trying to sit back and be like, just observe. Yeah. When a body is discovered 10 miles out to sea, it sparks a mind-blowing police investigation. He's one of the most wanted men in the world.

This isn't really happening. Officers finding large sums of money. It's a tale of murder, skullduggery and international intrigue. So who really is he? I'm Sam Mullins and this is Sea of Lies from CBC's Uncover. Available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. of people that love like partying and love going out and I feel like you're really lucky to have this like group of 20 somethings who all kind of have the same idea about loving dancing loving having house parties loving having raves how do you think that differentiates your timelines from like other people do you do you feel like you guys are kind of held in a time warp in a little way because you've got such a big group of people who love doing the same thing and I feel like

you're allowed to be young whereas I guess in other careers some people at the same age feel very kind of settled down in a different way does that make sense? Yeah completely like I think and Defo I mean Bell Hooks talks about and like all about love about I think she's just she talks about like the AA and like a sort of creating a kind of community of support and love and like I don't I don't actually know if that's how she describes it but I remember relating and thinking about like the group of friends I've got and like community and like how much you can create that feeling of support from like so many different places and people and like I it makes me not feel

like I need a partner in as much in a way at all it's funny as well because I was thinking when you were talking earlier like I am someone that's always been so fascinated with romance and like men and they should go to sleep every night like creating stupid scenarios in my head about like men and it's I think it was like the other day I was thinking though that I think what I've always found even more fascinating than that is like friends and being surrounded like surrounded by really cool people and just feeling really loved and partying and stuff because like I remember like when it going to uni and like being around low I don't know I just like being

surrounded by a lot of people that know me and you know like obviously having a small group but then a wider one and I don't know my parents have always had like a lot of friends I just think I was like oh god I think I've always even found that more romantic and fascinating than I have men which is weird because I'm obsessed with men saying a lot but I think there's something about having a friendship group where they can kind of carry your stories with them it makes you feel I feel like it distributes the weight of who you are as a person a bit if that makes sense because you've got all of these people walking around who know maybe like your deepest darkest secrets but also like your silliest personality traits and in that way i think it like unburdens you or unbridles you in a really tiny way of having to carry yourself through life because you're all carrying bits

of each other yeah that's so true and like i i notice you know like when you're in a relationship and they see cute things about you and like maybe they like, you know, on their phone, like went next to your name that's saved, like puts you an emoji that reminds them of it and all these things like people. It's so nice having friendships where people notice that in you as well. Like Moya was saying, oh, it's so cute

when you like wrinkle the top of your nose and you laugh and stuff. And you know, things you wouldn't even think that other people would see or like they would say I'm like a huge flirt and it's all that i like center myself all the time in conversations like someone will be talking about themselves and i'm like god it's so funny and it's like it's yeah it's really nice feeling seen in that way it's almost quite romantic i feel like we as i've gotten older me and my girlfriends are more romantic with each other in that way like talk

to each other in a way that's because you can have like you say you can have romance outside of romance if that makes sense and not reserving it for like one relationship you can kind of spill out even if it's being quite tactile with your friends or like I guess it's being intimate not necessarily romantic but you can be like have intimacy with friendships yeah in a way that I think we weren't necessarily taught you were taught to kind of because I think you're like me you're quite a loving person and like sometimes that is too much you can't just channel that into one partner sometimes that some of that like lovingness is got to be like distributed amongst other people in your life what I love as well is like you know where you you have got a lot of people around you that you love and stuff like all the little sub you know

where you're like hanging out with the group and it's kind of a weird mishmash of a few people and it's like everyone's a different person with a different combination of people like a different energy might arise between them people that like would be different with someone else that was like you know louder you know maybe the conversation be more meditative and like philosophical or and then like more silly with other people and it's like a weird patchwork of like vibes and it's like how you know if you've got certain things you want to go to like which friend you'd invite for what kind of thing or what kind of experience you want to have you you talk about in the book meeting some of these friends that we're kind of talking about how did you find because a lot of the things that people ask me on instagram as well is how to make friends in

your 20s especially when you're like moving to l to London it's such a busy city and everyone's got so much going on so you've done well to like create this really strong network of people which I'm really lucky to have met a couple of times and like been to some of your infamous parties that you guys host but how did you find these friends do you find it easy to make new friends yeah I think so but I think it's also I mean I guess like I literally met them because Moya had a house party that I went to but I think it's also I mean I guess like I literally met them because Moya had a house party that I went to but I think you know other friends that I've spoke to have gone to parties and I think like if you're talking to someone you get on it like and you're just like do you want to go and do something next week like so many people would and like I think it just takes

like going out and meeting a lot of people and when you find someone you get on with like being brave to like ask them on a friend day you know i used to have such a weird thing what if it was my friend's friend i would never like hang out with them on my own because i think that was their friend yeah it took me years i don't know why it was a really weird block where i was like i would meet a girl or guy whatever through a friend and i'd love them but i just wouldn't speak to them outside of seeing them with my friend and then one day someone did they're like should we go and get a coffee or whatever? And I was thinking like,

do I need to invite my friends? Like I couldn't work out that you're allowed to have friends. And I think sometimes we can be like that at a party where you meet someone and you want to ask them and you feel like someone's going to say no, but you're right.

Almost every time everyone's like, yeah, great, let's go and get a coffee or do something. And it's like, I find it really cute when I see two friends hanging out. Yeah. It's really sweet.

It's funny as well, like I had a house party for new years and like it was really i don't know what i was doing all night like i think i was just buzzing around like having 30 second conversations because i cannot remember what i was doing but it was so funny like the day i like after like talking to friends and be like oh it's so much fun i was meeting so and so i was talking to so and so and it's like i was like where was i because i would love to be talking to you too and it's so nice like you know when you see your friends like getting on it's really sweet I love trying to merge all my friendship groups but it's quite hard to like get them together but it is really fun when they meet and then they love each other loads yeah it's so nice I love that partying is such a big part of like the way that you lead

your life because I actually do think partying is like dying out yeah I feel like parties don't I feel like going out in London is it doesn't really exist anymore yeah everything's kind of shut at 11 unless we're going to house parties but how do you facilitate that because I think sometimes I think there's so much to be said for the importance of music and partying and like real parties it's so funny how much it occupies my brain especially what I'm gonna wear at them you know you're just like I love putting together a silly little look and like getting really excited to wear it because when we were like where'd you go in London I can't even think but a lot of the time it's like friends that like put on nights and stuff but there are like

fun places where you can like rent them in London for like we found a few places that like 200 quid and like we just got a couple of friends to DJ and stuff like that it's really fun yeah it's so it's such a like good way of like you know you like the phrase like blowing off steam like I often feel like I literally need to do that where it's just like a lot of stuff in my brain and I just need to go and be like thoughtless for a while and just dance and just chat and it's yeah it's really fun like and it's always nice looking forward to something I just think that way we've come i think because of like this health conscious thing and i think it's like gen z more but there's like everyone kind of goes to the gym in the morning or goes to yoga or goes to classes or does things which are like i guess the author's end of the spectrum of a party but

kind of a similar vibe it's like your u-time whatever but usually they're like you're not talking to anyone you're not really making friends. I feel like everyone's kind of swapped out parties in their purest form for like, and kind of see them as something we shouldn't be doing. Like nights out or staying out late is kind of seen as like reckless or silly. And actually, I think, like you said, like parties are great for meeting people. I think it's good for your soul to dance. I think it's a very like primal thing to get sweaty in a room with loads of other people and flirt innocently or non-innocently or whatever god yeah I often think this where it's like

obviously life I think is about balance and you can't be going out all the time you do start to feel like very worn down but so many of our friends that love partying and are good at it it's like they're always like oh there's such amount of guilt about it and I think that does make sense when you're getting too fucked up. But it's like, you enjoy this so much. And a lot of people want to go home at 12. And like, you don't. Isn't that, that's fun.

You've got good stamina for it. I also think sometimes they're like going to parties when you have loads of fun. Like me and my girls used to go, went out, well, I went out so much last year. And I went out with another group of friends. And they were getting absolutely wrecked just drinking drinking i was like that's so funny because when i got my friends that actually isn't we're just dancing the entire time so we do get drunk and we might be a bit hungover but actually like the majority of the evening we're on the dance floor and like dancing or singing or being really silly we're not actually just like concentrated drinking so i think when people thought about us going out they were

imagining us doing that and i was like that's actually not what my nights out look like they are genuinely like screaming into a microphone singing like sometimes we'll have danced so much that we're sober by the time we get home because we're like all out yeah I think that is something I want to work on a bit because I do think I still have a thing of like I don't know just the way you drink when you're growing up is like as soon as you drank something drink again like my leads friends love them but like I went for a boozy brunch with them like last year I was like every time I finished my glass of like again again I was like guys don't worry I'll get drunk like if you like it's fine and it's like it's just so in that mentality of like how much

can you drink and I feel like I it's just a bodily reaction when I'm out I'm like oh I need to get another drink I need to get another drink and my tolerance is so high like I really want to cut back on that because I've like it's so I'll be out at the pub with a friend and I'll see they've had like a couple of pints and I'm like it's I just want to get to the point where it feels very easy and natural not like I'm pacing myself not like I'm watching their drink and like matching how much they are so that the natural thing is to drink less but it is something i think you have to make a habit yeah i think i agree there's this idea that you've got to like get it down you and also you're right we're gonna end up drunk like no matter what happens usually i'm actually like half drunk after the second glass of wine like i think it's from this you know

maybe thing when you're younger where you can't afford drinks so you're like pre-drink downing it and yeah like drinking cider in the park it literally probably just comes from that because i was like okay i've paid like whatever 30 quid for like boneless prosecco but like if i want more later i could just get another drink like i'm okay now so why am i trying to get my money's worth of this thing and then just like lessening how much fun i'm having because i like can't speak as eloquently because I've drank so much it's just stupid not that I'm super eloquent anyway but no I I definitely find myself doing that and me and my friends have especially at bottom sponges where we've got so smashed we're like we should put be put in a straight jacket

because honestly like what are we doing that thing my friend like it's her birthday she's my best friend so I feel like I'm really calling her out but it was so funny she like we left the bomb this brunch place and she's just like immediately like fell over like smacked her knee and it's like it was probably like 1 p.m like what what is the need for that what do you feel like so you're saying you're getting to a cute little routine you're doing a reading in the morning and you're doing your gymming how do you feel like you're wait how old are you now 27 27 oh yeah because you're only i'm almost 29 oh my god but it's not that much older what do you feel like i when i turn 27 i think it's when i start you start thinking about

30 because it's yeah it's coming now how are you viewing that or approaching that you start i'm trying to like i do think it's changed but now everyone says you're 30 is like the best years and now it's like 40 is the thing to be worried about and actually I'm really excited about 30 yeah but are you starting to feel this kind of thing of god I'm meant to be slowing down or I'm meant to be changing the way I dress am I meant to become more like of a woman in a certain way yeah I definitely have had a lot of weird things where it's I think stuff to do with like oh am I going to be single forever because I it's so weird isn't it you never think like what it's either like you're going to meet someone in the next few years or

you're single forever like there's no option of like meeting someone at 45 like for some reason it's like women's lives seem to mentally end when they're like 35 or something I don't know why it's like in my head this oh god it's gonna happen soon or it's this but that's such a good point because i think it's like we see love only be able to happen up until the point when our eggs have expired basically yeah so it's like whereas you're so true especially if you're for instance say you didn't want to have children of you should absolutely what is it miranda margaret says never get married fuck everyone and buy a house or something like that like you could just be having this much fun yeah up until you're 50 and then be like right now i'm gonna settle down for the last 30 years of my life which makes way more sense than committing someone for like however long we're gonna live 60 years but i agree

i do think that it's like this rush and i think it's because of this there is this time limit like where we're like after 35 everything is like i think as well some of it is like makes more sense in the way that I know it's less and less single people like if it's like everyone's coupling up for this time limit but and then you know you like every time you see a hot guy you're like always you're like as a single always been going out with someone for seven years right okay cool and it just seems to happen more and more but so that in that way I do feel it in a more rational way but so I definitely had a little freak out about that I had a freak out about like defo botox like aging that kind of thing starting to notice like small changes in my face and but

then I think recently I have kind of circled it it was probably a six month freak out and then I think I'm really starting to enjoy it and I think it was I was actually on a night out in Leeds and there was like there's so many students when you go out in Leeds because it's obviously like three unis and like this guy like loads of really young guys like coming up to me and my friends and we were like oh my god you're so like you look like a child and I felt really maternal towards them and I think I was looking at them as well like just all everyone's out and I was like god I don't want to that doesn't look that fun anymore like they don't look like they're having much fun and I just was like felt so settled with the friends I was at and like the age I was and I was like I feel

like I'm starting to enjoy it and feeling more in control and knowledgeable and yeah there's so many things i want to respond to that first of all like getting older i've had the same age freak out thing like and aging and we'll talk about that but the thing you're saying i've had this before nights out where you meet young men even men that are like 24 and i'm like oh and then you hear about i don't know is it like chris evans going out with a 19 year old and you're like how are these men yeah obviously women i do think are more emotionally mature and also probably can make ourselves look older than guys can because when guys look young there's like you can't really do anything you just look so young but I remember going out and

finding that so strange and I'm seeing it like you see more and more as guys get older the women they date just get younger and younger and that really yeah yeah god I don't know if this is a bit gross but on that night oh I was like there was a guy he started talking to me and I was like oh how old are you and he was like 25 and I was like okay it's all right and then he was cute but then I got with him and I was like he's definitely because it was just I feel like you need to kiss people now it's never a bad kiss yeah and I was like I don't feel like you've kissed many people and I was like oh I feel horrible I feel so old and weird and like I was just thinking like god when like Leonardo DiCaprio is like getting with these young girls like they probably don't know how to kiss and stuff

do you know what I mean it's like ew and you enjoy oh you don't mind that or like you teach them all these things they don't know that they should shouldn't be learning from someone that old it's so weird but i think i think it's also because not only do we feel like the age gap more greatly because i think we do have that maternal thing and guys maybe look younger but also we're taught now that we are old so like it's like we're at the stage now where we should be more mature whereas guys always like especially i think because of this myth that men can kind of procreate eternally up until they're like 95 i think that does feed into some sensibility of like well i'm fertile so like i can be with fertile women whereas i think we start to feel like oh well we're we're too mature we're like

past the hell of getting with a guy that's such like a young buck but i find it i still find it weird like sienna miller love her my absolute favorite her boyfriend's 25 and i find that quite weird but maybe that's me but i find it all weird yeah it's also one thing i realized it's like only recently i was like god that's a myth that i believe that isn't real is the idea that men age better than women like that they they like just look better like the silver fox thing like because i thought oh yeah it's unfair but like their bones stretch they just look better but you look at like helen mirren or something it's like she looks exactly as good as a man would there's no like biological aging difference it's just being said that men can look old sexualized like women just we just see them as

sexless when they're old but i was even looking at my sisters and i feel like they're they get prettier like every year and they're both in their mid-30s and i was like i remember being worried when i was like 23 24 being like oh my god this is gonna be like the best i'll ever look and it's so weird because you can even if you don't look older like even if you don't have visible signs of aging like wrinkles wrinkles or whatever, there is something about someone's face where you just know how old they are. Do you know what I mean?

You can tell that I'm 28. It's obvious I'm not 18. Even if I wasn't that wrinkly or whatever. And even that in of itself is kind of seen as like less attractive or less than. And it's weird because I feel like I am starting to worry that when I go into a room, this is a really cringe thing to admit, but you're like're like oh god I'm not like the youngest in the room

anymore yeah do you know what I mean and I think you you when when you do I don't know we I guess we both probably got like careers when we were young so it's always like oh like I don't know like if I go on the radio to like talk it's like young perspective and it's gonna be weird when that isn't like I don't can't get away with that I'm more like I'm 27 yeah it's also funny with the wrinkles thing because I like when I see people now that I haven't seen in a few years I notice like wrinkles and it's so funny because every time I think they look great yeah like I don't know just a friend I hadn't seen years and he just had like laughing lines around his eyes and I was like oh it's so hot and it's so funny how you just don't think those hot things are hot on yourself and also I think when you go on Instagram or you watch TV or whatever or you see people that are in the media

everyone looks very smooth and preened and I always sit on the tube and I look around at everyone's faces and I'm like oh my god everyone has lines like it's so normal no matter how whether they're like early you can kind of gauge people's ages and I was thinking it's just so unrealistic like what we're measuring ourselves against just isn't what people in the world look like or care about like I think I think maybe because we're hyper visible due to like literally being online and photographed and whatever for work you focus so much more on your face and I do really notice this age thing and it's something I'm trying to figure out like do I want to start getting both I don't really know what the answer is i'm the same because it i kind of get both

like i i was in a guardian i think what was it we're in referring to 29 there was someone writing an article about where that is oh it was vicky spratt but oh i want to read this yeah yeah it was really good and like just deciding not to get botox and i was yeah like they are like markers of the life you've had and i don't know i feel like if i got it then i feel like i've got it now do you know what i mean and it does fit i feel like it does feel like a huge decision i feel like it's probably good that it feels like a big decision to weigh up yeah whether to get it or not it's just i don't know it just feels so normalized now that i guess the difference is before it would be like that was the arena of

celebrities and famous people but now that everyone's getting down you kind of feel like you're the odd one out if you don't and I know I'm saying everyone very loosely but I'm saying like lots of the circles that I've been in even my friendships that aren't like in the media but loads of my friends it's just like the next thing you do it's like something you start doing around 28 and it's like right time to yeah start getting both it's just like add to your repertoire of things that you do yeah do you follow those faces on those pages on instagram that are called like celeb face they come up on my discover feed and every famous person like every movie star you can think of every model they've all had like nose jobs like all these tweakments but over like a

really long amount of time and i look at them and it kind of makes me feel better and worse because you're like yeah wow even these women that you would never expect to have had anything done have actually like very subtly over time all just been morphing and it's weird because on the one hand I'm like god I could do that and then I'd be like I like I was obsessed with getting a nose job for a bit and then I thought it's horrible nose I just have a weird thing about this bit of my bridge but then I was thinking like everyone's seen my face for so long would it be weird then if I changed it and then what if I had a daughter and then her nose was like exactly like my old nose yeah or something but I am really like oh I do I'm really I feel like it's so against everything I'm supposed to believe in but I like love the idea of getting loads of plastic

surgery yeah I don't know yeah because like on the one hand I do feel like I love being glam and like I love putting loads of makeup on and I it's I it doesn't like oppose anything in that way but I think it's for me it's more Botox rather than like aesthetic because I think that's a real it's not I don't know maybe it's because it's so about aging it doesn't feel positive almost like because it's it's not adding something else yeah no but that doesn't make any sense i know it can be seen as we weirdly put aging in a category where it's like non-cosmetic so like we're taught to wear all these creams and like if you think about the way that we're marketed to like do certain things we're younger even wearing sun lotion obviously that is good because of like

skin cancers and stuff but a lot of the reason is aging and age is kind of put into this bracket where it's it's not necessarily about beauty it's it's viewed like about health but actually like it's not unhealthy to have wrinkles yeah but you can and it's a bit like having your teeth done i was thinking about this recently i had invisalign but that's actually cosmetic but like children are forced to wear braces from a really young age and it's really painful and you don't need to like you can have one teeth and i was just thinking the other day about how for some reason teeth aren't like no one bats an eyelid if someone gets their teeth done but if you said i'm getting my lips done i'm getting my botox whatever people would be

maybe quicker to judge it's so funny as well once you get something or become aware of something on yourself like or like i I don't know when I really like was like oh fuck my teeth are so yellow but it was like I don't know I drink like five cups of tea a day I was I think a friend had got on hers whitened and I was like oh I'm gonna do that and I got them done god it was like not one there was a thing and it was like one to 30 and mine were 27 I was like bloody hell um but then since then it's like all i see is that my teeth are bright yellow and it's like people are like oh your teeth are really white since i've had them done they never they don't look white to me before when they were probably quite yellow i

didn't notice it at all i didn't think they were yellow whenever you're fixated on something when i was really really lean and i was quite like disordered and i was doing my bikini competition i was so self-conscious of my body because i knew every like inch of fat so I wake in the morning and now I look at my body I'm like oh I look great but I'm like probably like two stone heavier than I was then don't really notice much things on my body but when you're like really fixated on something if it's like an issue then you can't it's really hard to you almost have to like detach yourself from it and not notice it or it's such a mindset thing isn't it because i was feeling quite crappy recently about my body and then i tried on something i bought on depop

and i was like whoa i look great at the minute and it's just a complete like one thing can just switch you away and then it's nothing nothing's changed in how i actually look or when you come off your period and then you suddenly feel great again you're like oh that wasn't that wasn't real when i was like saying that i was gonna change my hair and but even when i feel really sluggish if i'm going to the gym a few days i'll go to the gym once and suddenly my head i look like completely nothing's gonna change but i think it's the it's like the endorphins from exercising and stuff and i learned that certain changing rooms will make you feel awful about yourself because they just the light is horrible and just look gross so i'm like i'm just not gonna try stuff on in those changing rooms or

I'm just not going to look at myself at certain points like when I'm on my period I'm really just don't look at your body just only let yourself like feel nice you don't need to like bully yourself by putting yourself in positions where you don't feel good do you know what I mean yeah it's funny like in some ways bodies are so complex and all that and then in some ways they're so simple I literally go to the gym and like come out and be like I'm working on such I don't know I mean it's like they're so easy to program in some ways and then so complicated and weird in others you in the book you talk a lot about your about your body image and about and there's bits about like you talk about your stomach which I also loved with your ex and the way that he would kind of really encourage you to

love your tummy and it would really confuse you because you'd spent so long being like but this isn't what I like and he kind of loved it and I loved that like talking about how how's your body image because that was there's loads of sweet things about your ex even though it's confusing how did that change like now how are you feeling about your body now in that way I do I I feel like my body image is like held up by a very like architecture where it's like because I I didn't go to the gym for a little while I've become a weird gym addict this is a very new development for me but I didn't go to the gym for a bit and I was like it made me realize like how much like you were saying I'll it's it's not like i've managed to get to a point where i just unthinkingly eat i think i've got to a point where i unthinkingly eat because i'm justifying it

because i feel like i deserve it because i've been to the gym right do you know what i mean so it's like you know like in an ideal world you just eat well but you're allowing yourself to eat it because you're like i can have this because it's going so you're like one step behind eating just intuitively yeah you're allowing yourself to have what you want with the justification that yeah it's like you can't I feel like I've still had the treat mentality and it it was just quite weird not going how much the whole thing sort of fell down a little bit but it's also like I don't god it's so weird like I remember I think I write about in the book like I have such a clear memory of like before like me before I went on a first diet because I think diet culture and stuff came for me really late like I went to like it was only when I was at uni that I started being like oh I

should I've noticed my body almost and I think like for a lot of women sadly it's literally when they're like 14 but I was I remember putting on weight in like first gym and then being like, this isn't good. It's obviously bollocks. But and then going on a first diet. And I feel like it's like once you've done the first one, it's like your brain will never get out of that pattern of thinking. Do you know what I mean? You can get to a point where you're like chill with food. But I still think you are weighing it up in a certain way because you've done those calculations before like you can't go back almost it's it's it's like

the what's the thing in like the garden of eden I know the fallen things so you're just like in the thing and yeah so like even if now like I'm very I eat loads I'll have like four really big portions a day I'm still like oh because the gym I know what you mean it's funny it's we like I almost don't talk about bodies that much anymore because it's so complicated but like I think it's really like interesting and important to say stuff like this because some people still do struggle and I think we're living in like a post-diet culture in verticom as well when no one feels like they're able to kind of admit if they're still feeling pressure yeah yeah to like do certain things the other day i had like a bit of a bloated tummy so i was like i can't wear like a tight dress and then i was like yeah you can you just have a bit of a tummy yeah and then i just went out with it and for some reason

i was like because i do i can be quite like have a flat tummy sometimes but it was bloated so normally i would dress to like hide that i was like just go out there and then i was actually that's quite cute and then i was like why does this matter like no one's looking and like yeah it was like the first time that i'd ever just decided just to like let my body be and not try and make it look right in a marketer comments you know i mean and that was like a new thing for me because i can be quite like i'm really good about I don't mind my body, but I'll be conscious of how I show it, if that makes sense.

Yeah, completely. I feel like, sadly, like most women do just have issues with food. And they kind of vary on a scale. I would say that I am like, do really love the way I look and I'm confident. But I think there's still massive issues I had that I probably won't ever grow out of do you think ever no I don't know like not

I mean I think I'm so much further ahead than like say my mum who would be like you know just I feel like it's more normal for our mum's generation to not like the way they look and I don't feel like that I feel so confident and hot like most of the time but I think I'll never I just don't I don't think I'll ever not be really aware of how I look or if I you know go through phases of putting on I don't know yeah I don't think I'll feel chill do you think every I see I think what happens is I think every I agree I think most women have some form of like not everyone but a lot of women have some form of disordered eating and just over time it just becomes so second nature that it basically like

it doesn't control you you just have learned how to control it yeah and I do think that that's true and I see it a lot with like women they just everyone has their own like weird ways of you're right yeah interesting as well like how what women have to do to feel okay and like how different we all are because like I I saw this thing and it was like an influencer and it it made me feel more settled before Christmas it was like it just came on my discover feed and basically she had like a big box of celebrations and she was like if you eat like loads over christmas it's not gonna make you put on those weight like to put on loads of weight you'd have to eat like however many to put on whatever gram of fat like it's not if that's what you're stressed about that's not a thing and i put it on the group chat i was like don't want to freak anyone out like but this made

me feel more soothed yeah but then i obviously freaked everyone no i freaked out one friend he was like i don't like it when they talk about anything to do with dieting or weight around Christmas like it should just be a non-topic and I was like yeah that makes complete sense and then another friend was like that made me feel I've just ate like a whole like square of galaxy that made me really chill it's just funny how individual it is and how careful you have to be well I'll have our own coping mechanisms to deal with like the shitty diet culture thing but I feel like I've got I've been through such like bad sort of eating like back and forth over the years and i feel like i'm so relaxed about food i gotta eat what i want do what i want and then they put calories on the menu and all of a sudden because when i got to eat i will eat anything i'll have

three courses i'll have that whatever but the minute i can see i didn't know i felt like i really was i'd got like i like evolved i was so proud of myself and now when i got to see it and i try so hard not to look at it, but I'm like, I just automatically will be like, well, I'm not going to have that. Cause that's like, especially when it's something that you don't know. I don't want to know how many calories

and things when you're out, but you'd like, I'll want to order something and then it'll turn out to have loads of calories. And I just, I'm like, I wish I didn't know that. I really don't need to know that. It's interesting as well. Like you having a thing of like, oh, when I go out to eat, I'll do this.

Cause like, even that, even though it's interesting as well like you having a thing of like oh when i go out to eat i'll do this because like even that even though it's like a hell like a very sustainable like form of like working out where your like boundaries are but it's still like putting a boundary on do you know what i mean because like i remember like before i went on a diet being like oh i'm in the mood for chocolate i'll have a chocolate i'm in the mood for like soup like i didn't think and i just think i can't not think again you can intuitively in the sense you're like aware that you're intuitively thinking but you're still like aware of it it's still like i know yeah yeah so true it's so annoying it is annoying but maybe we don't ever like yeah i don't know what the answer is it's really confusing because even then when you're like sometimes as well people

like eat intuitively but like you said then i'm like do i intuitively want to have that and then i'm like if i intuitively wouldn't i just eat all day would i not when would i stop and i don't i think sometimes you do have to be i don't know it's it's basically mindful i think the less you think about it the better yeah but then think trying thinking about not thinking about it less makes you think about it so So you just have to like, no thoughts. Yeah, I don't know. It's so confusing. Okay, tell me, this is kind of the idea,

but when it comes to your timelines, where were you imagining that you would be at 27? Is it different from where you are now? How, like what little things have unfolded that maybe you wouldn't have expected? And do you have any plans? Do you have a five, 10 year plan? Are you that kind of person?

Or are you just looking forward to finding out, fucking around and finding out? Yeah. I feel like I would be so gassed if I saw like my life now. I think it was so cool. I think I probably would have thought I had a boyfriend, but like, I think like sometimes,

you know, when you do that thing where you imagine like what your 16 year old self would think about your life. Like even when I'm doing chaotic things, like crying over a guy that like I went on a few dates or something when I'm doing chaotic things like crying over a guy that like I went on a few dates or something I'm like oh my god I'm crying over a guy when I'm on a few dates like you know you can always romanticize it and be like just seeing it as so dramatic or like if I'm like oh my god like I haven't done any work on Monday or Tuesday so

crap from the weekend but and I'm like in bed like with a laptop I don't know just like I feel like my life I just think it's cool and fun so that's really nice I think five I want to I'm trying to write fiction at the minute which is really fun can you tell us about it or not have you started no I yeah I'm so like vague at the minute but yeah that's been cool and I'm really enjoying that in the sense I think I haven't like learned a new skill in a while and like being like I'm actually doing that like that that's actually happened it's been a really satisfying feeling yeah in the next few years what was I thinking I really want to have a I would love to have you know when people hire like workspaces I would love to have like an off

I just my desk is like right next to my bed and I have this disgusting office chair that like is comfy just like I just hate having work like literally next to I would love to have like an office like I could go in where there's other people co-working what else I would love to like continue becoming less crazy with men like because I feel like you can't I like now it's like it's so stupid to be like oh I want a boyfriend or whatever like I want to react better to situations and be yeah like I've gotten so much better at like approaching people when I'm out and like being like flirting with them in that way I think that's really fun and just not letting it completely knock me on the floor if I get rejected I feel like you're doing such good like market research though because you've been

dating and single for like three years I think that by the time that you when that person whoever they may be comes along I think you'll be like so ready for it yeah I think so yeah and just continue going out and having fun maybe a bit less fun that's me this year I'm gonna have less fun I'm still having fun not having fun turns out yeah lots of different ways I mean like you know when you just like are in on a Friday and you've just got like a really good show to watch and it's so delicious just thinking about staying in. I know, I've realised that as well, just actually doing nothing is really good fun. Thank you so much for joining me, I love this chat, we've kind of got it all around the houses but I think it's been really nice. Do you have anything else that you want to tell anyone about that you want to point out?

No, just read my column. Buy a book. Buy my book, yeah, that's it probably. Oh, thank you so much for joining me. No, I had my column. Buy a book. Buy my book. Yeah, that's it probably. Oh, thank you so much for joining me. No, I had the best time. And thank you everyone for listening. I will see you next week. Bye. We'll be right back. A chance to win with every spin and a guaranteed winner by 11 p.m. every day.