Adulting - Let's Talk About... Motherhood

Episode Date: October 27, 2024

 Hello and welcome to Adulting, and the fifthteenth episode of Let’s Talk About… a broadening of Adulting... where that was about all of the things we never got taught in school, this is almost like seminars on life; where my audience (that's you!), get to chat anonymously about things they couldn't necessarily discuss over lunch with their friends, or feel like they don't have anyone to talk to about whatever it may be.  To get involved, follow me on Instagram @oenone, where every Tuesday we vote on a topic and every Wednesday we dig deep. Let’s Talk About… motherhood. The submission read ‘women sharing the realities of having kids on social media is putting me off having them’. This chat has been a long time coming. The topic of parenthood is something I grapple with, and I wrote a piece about it for my Substack, too, a few months ago, called Maybe, Baby, which I will link in the show notes. I have a lot of thoughts on this, and you did, too! I hope you enjoy  as always, please do rate, review and subscribe!https://oenonef.substack.com/p/maybe-baby Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. Hello and welcome to Adulting and the 15th episode of Let's Talk About, a broadening of adulting where that was about all of the things we never got taught in school. This is almost like Seminars on Life, where my audience, that's you, get to chat anonymously about things you can't necessarily discuss over lunch with your friends or maybe just feel like you don't have anyone to talk to about whatever it may be. To get involved, follow me on Instagram at Anoni where every Tuesday we vote on a topic and every Wednesday we dig deep. Let's talk about motherhood.

The submission read, women sharing the realities of having kids on social media is putting me off having them. This chat has been a long time coming. The topic of parenthood is something that I grapple with quite frequently and I actually did write a piece about this for my sub stack a few months ago called Maybe Baby, which I will link in the show notes. I've got a lot of thoughts on this and you did too. I hope you enjoy and as always please do rate, review and subscribe. To start off some of the shorter messages. My friends who have kids make it look so awful whilst also constantly professing it's the best. I don't want children

and it made me way more happy with my decision. I'm the only one in my friendship group with children so far but sometimes I feel guilty sharing the realities. I had a difficult birth and regularly share honest bits of life but I feel if someone had been more honest with me ultimately it wouldn't change anything. another message read I don't quite understand how you could be put off by having kids based on the posts seen on Instagram like if you've already decided you want kids then you should know to expect the life upheaval and another message read my algorithm means I see 99% negative stuff and only 1% positive I'm all for transparency but now I feel like it's gone too far the other way I think the trouble with some of this content not that I think it's bad in of itself is that the

creators making and sharing it are assuming that it's taken with the understanding that children are of course amazingly life-changing and it's all 100% worth it but to the viewer seeing an out-of-context post about the horrors of parenthood that isn't so obvious especially if you don't have kids and another sharing is good because if you're on the fence about having kids it gives you an insider look at it however my friend absolutely scared us all with her stories of birth and parenting and I'm like I don't know what I want and I can't look at her the same anymore I know too much another message I feel like this is the same with a lot of things though we often spend more energy sharing our lows around dating work

friendships and the highs because the lows are what we need support with like no one wants to listen to me talking about how much I love my husband for hours but we used to love discussing bad dates and horrible boyfriends similarly I think a lot of parents share the bad bits more as they're reaching for connection and support from their circle whereas the happy bits stay more private as they're busy taking that all in and enjoying it. And another message, I also find why are the mums always sharing the reality, which probably means the negative, often complaining, rhetoric quite harmful as we mother in a system which does not support mothers at all. It gives me a sense of mothers should just be quiet rather than how can we support mothers and families

so that the reality isn't at times incredibly difficult to navigate. Someone responded, the mental load as a mother is insane. If you take domestic load jobs, remembering toilet roll, feeding pets, etc, and times it by bloody 100. My partner is an amazing dad and does a lot at home, including his fair share of child care. But I swear men are just not hardwired for this. It's the thing I found most difficult as a mum, all the responsibility. And another message from a parent as parents we get targeted with content about being the perfect parents we need to have the right parenting style feed them the perfect balanced diet our house has to be clean and tidy their toys need to be rotated

and be montessori they need to go to bed at 7 p.m and sleep through the night for 12 hours you need to have a box of crafts always ready decorate your house perfectly for the holidays take them to the different classes etc it's exhausting it makes us feel like failures constantly seeing content about the reality of having kids makes us feel less lonely less lost sometimes i think content has gone too far in both directions in all honesty i love my kid he's wonderful but it can also be hard and that's okay both can be true there's so much going on here and I have so many thoughts but I guess in response to this initial point about the content is I think that I completely agree that it's so valuable that women are finally able to talk about the realities of motherhood the difficulties that they face because for so long women were not given that option to complain maybe only in private spaces maybe to other mothers,

but it was seen as sort of a woman's work to raise her children and be quiet and not complain. And that, you know, that was her duty. So I think that this shift, this cultural shift in people being really honest about the difficulties is really important. And like that last message said, especially for other parents. parents another message read we're not doing it to scare we're doing it to vent and pray that someone understands us which I completely understand and there should be space for that and another message read I don't have kids but I do want them and I think it's actually exposing interwoven societal issues such as child care costs class maternity and paternity leave i think this is the crux of

the issue people are sharing and venting and looking for community and understanding because it's so difficult and whilst it's imperative that changes are made to how we support mothers in this society someone sent in a really good quote that was like, they say it takes a village to raise a child, but it takes a village to raise a mother. So many of us are living in cities far away from our parents or perhaps having children later in life. So our parents are slightly older and can't necessarily look after our children. Often most people need two income households. People are going back to work quite early. Paternity leave is awful. We're living through a cost of living crisis. The financial aspect of having children is really impossible kind of for

so many people right now so I think what's happening is twofold is that the parents absolutely need support but in sharing and venting and explaining the difficulties of it it's meaning that so many people are actually really thinking about motherhood in a different way and parenthood and considering whether or not it is actually a viable option for them off the back of all of this information that we now have another message read I'm one year in and whilst I love it I wouldn't change it I found it such hard work because of the mental load on the women I think we're at a time where it's incredibly hard to be a mother as you're expected to have it all which just isn't possible. I think it might have been easier in the past where it was normal to just be a mother. Not that I want this, just that that would have been easier.

Something needs to seriously change in society for those women who want children to actually be able to accommodate them in their lives without burning out completely. I thought this was interesting because I think that it's true I think that obviously in the past women would have been able to support look after their children be at home all day if that's what you wanted on a single income and that perhaps was easy in the past I do think also though that so many women would have struggled in silence whether that's with postnatal depression or illness or just completely being totally burnt out and in a society that viewed women pretty much as sort of vehicles for baby production. I don't know if those women, if it was

easier or if we just didn't hear those stories as much, I definitely think that it was easier financially. So it's really difficult, isn't it? And I think that we do want to have it all in some ways. We don't necessarily want to be someone who is trapped in the home constantly looking after their children who has no agency or freedom to pursue a career or see their friends and that has evolved in the way that women are often going back into the workplace you know taking not necessarily taking that much time off and even if they do take maternity leave then it might be harder to get back into the workforce or say you do go back into work I have friends who are like it's actually not worth me going back

into work because my work wouldn't even cover the child care costs of sending them to nursery so it's all a complete mess and I think that that is really scary another message read it looks like having children is hideous and ruins your life. And someone replied to this saying, this makes me so sad as I felt like this for so long. I got pregnant by accident at 31. I was the first of my friends and had spent my 20s hearing how awful and intense it is. I think this is especially prevalent discourse amongst us career focused girls. I spent my pregnancy panicking that my life was over and that I wouldn't be able to love my child. Turns out nothing is further from the truth.

Lots of things about having a child are hard, but it's so reductive to only focus on those. Of course there are lows. It's life, when are there not? Being a mum has been utterly transformative for me. It's taught me more about love and myself than I ever knew possible, and the joy it brings every day

is beyond anything I expected. But I'm so glad that I was lucky enough for this accident to happen because otherwise with the narratives around how dreadful it all is I doubt I ever would have felt ready. I found this quite interesting as well my views on motherhood have changed and evolved a lot as I've gotten older when I was younger I really believed it would be a given that at some point I would be a mum. And now at 30, obviously I'm single. Not only do I not know because, you know, that's out of my control. Maybe I won't meet someone. Maybe by the time I do, I won't be able. I don't know from that point of view.

But I also don't know because I feel so armed with so much knowledge about the difficulties of motherhood and just how hard it is that I question whether or not I want to do that and would be able to be a good enough parent. I actually got pregnant by accident at 25 in the lockdown and I had an abortion. I never wanted to have a baby at that age, But when I was pregnant for that short period of time, the hormones and being in that scenario and living with my boyfriend because we'd moved in together because it was locked down, I suddenly in that moment was like, well, maybe I can have this baby. And I kind of, I write about it in Bad Influence, but I kind of, it was a bit of a head fuck moment because suddenly I was like, maybe I should have this thing.

And I had a much less objective bird's eye view of motherhood than I do now and I actually felt a bit deflated when my ex said to me like we don't want to have a baby right now I kind of felt rejected because my view of motherhood at that age was kind of what I'd believe growing up which is this romanticized idea of someone going a man saying to to you, I want to, let's make a baby. I want to have a baby with you. And it's kind of this gorgeous, beautiful communion of love. What could be more committed and a show of adoration than saying, I literally want to blend our DNA together and for you to build a baby and we're going to have this gorgeous thing. And my view of motherhood was kind of always that less of the parenting more about the way that love creates life and I would think a lot about pregnancy and having a bump and I spent a lot of time during the like weeks when I

was thinking about it cradling my stomach and imagining pregnancy as this sort of really romanticized beautiful thing and I do think there's something in that in a way where I'm like god I kind of wish I didn't know so much because maybe maybe I know too much about how the sausage is made now and maybe I might live to regret making a decision about children and so I found this really interesting this message from this woman who said basically because she got pregnant by accident and had this baby, she's really grateful for it. I'm really glad I didn't have it at 25. But I find it so interesting how I now think about motherhood and pregnancy,

and especially when I'm single, how I view it. Another message read, I think online, it's only women we see bearing the brunt of it. And so it makes it all so all consuming that even if you're in a relationship it's pretty much down to the woman. I also know that divorce rates are extremely high and the reality of being left with said child is more realistic nowadays. Men are much more open to having children because they don't have to be there. Society says it's okay if a man is more absent. Another message read, I had a baby nearly a year ago and I had a stressful pregnancy but our baby is so happy and healthy so I feel so grateful. At the same time nothing has prepared

me for how difficult it's been for our marriage which is still in its infancy. People talk about difficulties of conception, childbirth and newborn stages but I didn't read much on just how much of a strain a baby, sleepless nights and hormones amongst everything else can have on your relationship. I wish I had read that it changes that but it's okay. I've come across Zoe Blusky and the term matricence which is basically adolescence for mothers and it explains that everything changes and it's meant to. I think when you frame your mind to accept the change it becomes more manageable and easier to understand. Overall you shouldn't make a judgment on a huge life decision based on social media. As ever we should be taking counsel from our village. Finally completely agree that you need

help from parents or in-laws. So off the back of those two messages I wanted to talk about the other aspect of motherhood which is actually about your relationship and about finding a partner who's going to be able to support you through as a mother what is going to be one of the most crazy challenging times of your life when you have a newborn I've got two sisters who both have two daughters you do not sleep you're sleep deprived that is literally how they would talk to people your hormones are crazy they say that when you're going through pregnancy, it's basically like running a marathon every day. You are growing bones and organs and stuff in your body.

And then you're caring for this young child, which if you breastfeed, then that means that, you know, from the beginning, this baby is kind of totally dependent on you. And very often there maybe isn't that much that the husband can do with the baby, but obviously they could be doing loads of stuff around the house and helping you with the mental load but again because of the way that society has socialized men and women to have these gendered

roles and as someone said in a previous message sometimes men are not as equipped at dealing with the mental load side of things as women have been taught and socialized and brought up in a way that means quite often that does fall on them so there's also this fear I guess of will I have chosen a partner that is really going to be supportive of me and going to be able to it's not necessarily saying that men are in the wrong or do anything wrong but it is it's it's a real reality which I think is a great thing to talk about and great for women to talk about because I think that that again going back to that woman that said maybe it was easier in the past I think that would have been probably way worse in the past in terms of men absolutely not helping around the house and women having to not only raise probably multiple children but also look after

a house cook and clean and do like an inordinate amount of unpaid labor basically from the minute they woke up to the minute they go to bed and you read so many stories about people talking about how it's so much easier actually to go into work than it is to raise a child and yet that's completely unpaid i don't know if you guys saw the most fucking outrageous tweet earlier this month from this guy who tweeted my first is eight weeks old and i can see why men cheat at this time my wife completely ignored my existence for the first few weeks and we had to have arguments to get her to even to even acknowledge me not to mention be intimate that's the biggest challenge baby is easy oh my god did this make me cross and obviously everyone went nuts about it and we're replying but there is also

if I may be so bold uh an element again in the way that men and women are socialized that so often when we talk about romantic relationships, women are acting as mothers to these men. And so when they become an actual mother to their own child, the man is left feeling bereft. This is hopefully changing. And we are living in a much more modern liberal society where there are so many great men out there and so many amazing fathers. But God does that scare me when you read things like that about how men feel left behind and it's just this lack

of support for mothers both emotional support and also understanding which is why when it comes to women sharing the difficulties of motherhood that's why it's so good because it means that we're forcing everyone to look up and say that mothers need so much more support. But it does make me scared and worried for how that could look before you even get pregnant, from choosing that right partner to going through a pregnancy that potentially is going to change your body irrevocably. You could be so unwellwell one of my sisters gets terrible hyperemesis she had to be on like 18 tablets a day was sick constantly and basically said she felt like she was dying and then you could obviously have complications with birth and then you go on to

have a baby anyway I'm not trying to be really depressing about it I'm just saying that this is kind of when I get I go between these two minds of fantasizing about this wonderful man who loves me so much that he wants to bring life into the world to being slam dunked into a tweet like that where I think fuck me like is it ever worth it another message read I was on a gender empowerment call and the topic was the mental load last week I can't lie I'm quite traumatized from it most of the group of mothers and multiple of them actually broke down in tears on a work call just trying to explain their mental load two said they're having to move to part-time to handle the pressure of motherhood bearing in mind i work at a charity very much nine till five with an hour for lunch you can do flexible hours etc

they said the school calls them without fail every time even if the husbands are on the emergency list first their kids demand constant support and go to them first they have no time for themselves i genuinely found it deeply upsetting and it's completely put me off it was so sad i will say that obviously these women all said they deeply adore their children and love them so much but they were really struggling another message for me it was a surprise to realize the challenges of pregnancy itself it's painted as such a lovely, enjoyable thing on social media, with beautiful gender reveals, baby showers, maternity wear hauls, workouts with a baby bump, what I eat in a day, five months pregnant, etc.,

photo shoots, but I hated almost every moment up until seven months. Nobody really talks about the negatives, heaviness, awful cravings, triggers of old eating disorders, bad skin, and fatigue. FanDuel Casino Daily Jackpots. triggers of old eating disorders, bad skin and fatigue. by 11 p.m every day 19 plus and physically located in ontario gambling problem call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca select games only guarantee void of platform or game outages occur guarantee requires play by at least one customer until jackpot is awarded or 11 p.m eastern restrictions apply see full terms at canada.casino.fandu.com please play responsibly realize i'm that so many of these messages are negative so i wanted to read a positive one which read i think having children is what you make it everyone is different but you need to focus on what makes you happy once your

child is here all the lows are worth it it's easy to look at becoming a parent with a negative view because you haven't got anything there to make you feel like all those low points are worth it as long as you make sure to take the time out for yourself and don't get bogged down with all the negative points it's fine sure life is easier without children but if you want them who cares they are the biggest blessing ever and I also shared a quote from Rob Delaney who is one of my favorite people in the world I'm kind of in love with him who's he's in catastrophe with Sharon Horgan and he lost his son at two which is just devastating and he wrote a book called A Heart That Works and there's a quote from that which I shared which read whenever someone tells me they're

expecting their first baby and they're nervous I'll tell them the following oh my goodness that's wonderful I'm so happy for you listen of course you're nervous but here's the deal you're ready for all the bad stuff you've been very tired before you've been in pain before you've been worried about money before you felt like an incapable moron before so you'll be fine with all the difficult parts you're already a pro what you're not ready for is the wonderful parts. Nothing can prepare you for how amazing this will be. There is no practice for that. And I think what I got so much, and I got it in response to my maybe baby piece that I wrote on Substack, is that it's really hard to quantify or explain the joys of having children, that love you feel. And I mean, I've got a little dog and the love I feel for her is unsurmountable,

the way that she makes me feel. I could cry talking about how happy she makes me so I entirely believe that that it's all of this negativity is true so much of it is structural unfortunately so much of it that we're talking about is about gender imbalances about financial stresses about the way that society is set up capitalism I do believe that we're struggling against the tide and that the beauty and the magic of creating life is gorgeous, but unfortunately the realities are much more complicated. Another message read, Mum of two planned and very wished for wonderful children.

I don't know what other people are getting said by the algorithm, but for me it's my reality of parenting with no village in the 21st century even though my husband is extremely hands-on the mental load societal pressures and even our own expectations can be quite overwhelming my children are the best and simultaneously hardest part of my life and whilst I completely agree with the sentiment of the lovely quote you mentioned let me just say that nothing has prepared me for the level of exhaustion of motherhood not even 10 plus years of working 12 hour and night shifts in A&E unless you have a solid support network it's the kind of tiredness that's unrelenting and will not be solved by a random lion or even a weekend off here and there ultimately would I do it again 100% it's totally

worth it but was I unprepared for the magnitude of the challenge also yes I also shared a piece by Eva Wiseman in the Guardian which was basically about how we're slowly shifting towards allowing women to say no I don't want children without quantifying it with because of financial issues because of not having a partner whatever just being like no I don't want to have them I find it very interesting that it's seen as a default that you're expected to have a child that that's just something that you should do and if if anything that you're selfish for not having children and I received a message which I guess for me is one of the most poignant parts in this whole conversation it read I've so much to say on

this I think people should consider all aspects of parenting. People tend to, not all the time, make the decision lightly and some people don't get the choice. And then they can be awful parents who instill warped values and potential trauma onto a child. I don't want children and that has always been seen as selfish and I think the complete opposite is true.

Lots of people I know have kids because they want to have a best friend or a doll to dress up. But when it comes to the actual parenting, they aren't equipped to manage it. I know this sounds really hard line but I do think that sharing these stories is helpful. Obviously you adapt to your situation and you're grateful to have your child but it's okay and good to recognize that it isn't right for everyone. I think prospective parents need to think hard about this. It's bringing a whole human into the

world and that quite frankly isn't a light decision. It's something I really think about that angle of the selfishness, because part of my fear of bringing a child into the world is actually, but I sometimes struggle with depression. And I've got much better at managing it. I didn't even really know that's what it was until a couple of years ago, I used to get these periods of feeling just very low very unhappy um quite numb and now that I understand it better I've got really good at coping mechanisms of cutting out alcohol of exercising more of making sure to see my friends I went through a period of being on antidepressants but thankfully I'm not on them right now

and one of my fears I guess, with being a parent is like, am I going to transfer this onto a child? I would never want to bring something into the world that at points in their life felt like they wished that they weren't there. And that really scares me. And I worry about that because I think that bringing a child into the world is so gorgeous, yes. And one of the things that I worry about, say I do make the decision not to have a child into the world is so gorgeous yes and and I'm one of the things that I worry about say I do make the decision not to have a child is that everyone says it is I mean you cannot really experience the fullness of human capacity for love and emotion without having child as a as a cis woman I guess it is that it's the final frontier of what you can do. It's magical and

incredible and miraculous. And I, it's something that I am interested in. I'm even interested in birth and pregnancy. And it's something that I, I do even though against everything we've spoken about, it's something that I really think that I will say, I don't have children. I think I will always wonder and always grieve that a little bit I suppose but on the other hand my fear is that say I do get to do that and then I have children and what if I end up being not a good enough parent or I'm not capable to provide for that child I don't know it just really scares me then again I watched my sister my middle sister who lives in the UK my eldest sister lives in Australia so I and her

kids are a bit older so I didn't necessarily get to watch her raising them from very young but my nieces Matilda and Bonnie, Bonnie is my goddaughter are three and Bonnie's Matilda's three and Bonnie's almost one and watching how my sister parents is really quite inspirational and quite healing because I think that we are now also armed with so much information about the best way to protect a child and raise them so that they feel secure in themselves, so that they don't have traumas. Because there's so many things just that might seem quite innocuous in the way that you raise a child years ago, I mean, that actually have really long lasting impacts on how people feel. And there's that amazing book by Philippa Perry, the book you wish your parents had read and so watching like my sister raise her daughters and the way that she speaks to them and the language that she uses and the way that they teach her about the world and the level of respect that she gives her daughters I find that really lovely to watch and that makes me feel slightly comforted

that maybe I would be capable and able also of raising children in an environment which felt safe and happy and hopefully you know somewhat protected them but then you can't ever really protect a child forever and it's not just that you have a child you know a newborn baby and then till they're 18 your child could go on to have issues well on into their later life so I don't know I hope that this again I'm worried that I'm being really depressing in this episode but it's's something that really, really kind of sits with me. And it's something that I think about all the time. And in my last relationship, we were living together and I wasn't expecting us to break up when we did. And when we were really happy and really in love, I really did start to

crave that idea of having a baby because I think that is always the seed, you know it it's from love and I wonder if sometimes the the bravery to have a baby has to come from a slight level of delusion in terms of you know it comes from a place of love it's hormonal it's it's chemical but then also having the ability to support the reality of it later on and as I'm getting older, my fears are greater. I have a more risk averse. I'm more scared to take on things that feel unknown or challenging. And maybe that's good. Maybe that means you're more armed. Maybe that means we'll all be better parents. Maybe all of us right now who are sitting on the fence, maybe this level of interrogation that we're giving this seismic change and potential thing that might happen in our lives

maybe it's a really good thing that we are so exposed that there has been this correction in the way the language that we use and the way that mothers are able to be honest it means that if we do go into it hopefully we we might then get some strength from that but it does definitely make it scary and And I think, again, going back to that Eva Wiseman piece that I'll link in the show notes, because I think it was so good. I do really think that it is so valid and should be unquestioned if someone says, I don't want to have children. I think there are so many varied reasons, which can be as simple as it's just not something you envision. I also think there's so many ways

we'll have children in our lives even if you don't decide to have children which is something that I feel really grateful for with my nieces. I think about this all the time is I'll never be without children. My friends have babies, some of my friends are pregnant, I've got nieces. There's so many ways that I can be a parental-esque figure. I'm so excited. I love my niece at this age but I'm so excited for when they're teenagers. I really look forward to being able to support them and help them through things that maybe you wouldn't go to a parent for. Maybe that an auntie figure is something that can give you a different element of support. I also think that in a world now where we are, you know, therapy is becoming more prevalent, we are starting to look into the way that the mind and body are so connected. And we're talking about things like healing your inner child. I don't think that there's an arrested development as such. the past people were thrust into situations much younger so you had to grow up much faster in lots of ways in terms of perhaps people getting married in their very early 20s having children owning a

home you know our parents generations and previous and in a way it might feel like they were so much more grown up than we were but then perhaps in lots of ways there are lots of older adults who are now experiencing trauma or unresolved mental health issues or just generally hadn't completely put themselves together because they were thrust into adult life so quickly. And I think that sometimes people are quite quick to say that, you know, especially people in living in cities or people who are pursuing their careers, you know, that we're kind of delaying adulthood, that we're Peter P pans who don't want to grow up but i think and especially in my friendships and especially with the single women that i know we do a lot of sort of like healing with each other my friend grace that i live with we spend a lot of time just sitting and chatting and working

through emotions and feelings and our reactions and doing a lot of like healing and genuinely just trying to become more solid more secure more capable women who feel totally proud and happy in themselves in a way that is almost I guess like parenting ourselves and each other and I think that that is such a powerful and amazing thing and as much as we can debate about how I do think that therapy language and therapy speak has kind of been so bastardized that we are pathologizing almost everything and every conversation and sometimes things aren't can't be put into that little box but I certainly feel that in the last 10 years through life experiences and being so lucky to have the friends that I have and the people in my life who are willing to go to places with me and conversations about stuff and just sort of figuring out perhaps

bad patterns of behaviors or triggers or you know ways that I can improve who I am as a person maybe we'll feel more ready to be a parent and give that love and you know once we feel like we've put our oxygen mask on first basically when we feel like actually we can give now because we've healed ourselves I don't know if that even makes any bloody sense sorry I recognize that I've probably been straying away from the topic a little bit but that's because it's so gargantuan and I have so many thoughts on it and I guess to go back to right the initial point about mothers being so vocal and honest about the difficulties of motherhood that it's putting people off having children

it's just made me think about how much of womanhood is just shrouded in shame how much of to be worthy in a society that we live in being married being chosen as someone to carry a baby is seen as something really valuable. It means that you're more important. And yet at the same time, mothers are so devalued and not cared for and not supported that it's so at odds that you come to this arrival, you reach this apex point of what society deems to be the most valuable woman. We only have to look at like Kamala Harris and how many people are sort of dogging on her because she doesn't have kids as if that somehow devalues her and yet the minute that you do have children you're in some ways abandoned and it that all of that pressure does fall on you and there is so much shame around women not being able to conceive

the way that the language around that is sort of really shameful. Like, you know, you've dried up or you're inhospitable or the language, it's just, it's so much about how much of womanhood is tied into motherhood. And then also there's this shame in then women admitting that they're struggling and then putting other women off. And then the shame in saying that you don't want to have children. There is also then huge Reddit threads about from women and also I think on Mumsnet who admits that they really regret having children, that they love their children, but they regret how much it's changed their lives. I just think all of this is shrouded in so much shame and secrecy that actually through having this conversation, because it's something,

again, I've maybe quite flatly said in the past, you know, hearing about the realities of parenting so explicitly and so constantly, especially on media is putting me off but the more I think about it the more I realize that it's just fundamentally so necessary and also that we need to get rid of the shame and look at the realities of it and it's not that I'm anti having kids or having children I love children I love the children in my life I I'm so fascinated and interested in and by the process of becoming a mother and being a mum and raising someone and from every age and I'd love to see I'd love to be a parent to a teenager I don't know why it's something I kind of fantasize about actually I also listened to Kiri Pritchard-McLean who is a comedian on Parenting Hell with Rob Beckett and Josh

Widdicombe and what she does is she fosters and she has kids for like two weeks and it's that kind of emergency fostering and you can if you want from there like go on to adopt and that's something also that I thought perhaps later down the line when I'm older if I'm financially stable and in a position I could maybe that is another way that I would look into parenting or being a parental figure and I think that that the way that she spoke about it I thought was really inspirational and amazing but I've I've even sort of through having this conversation and sorry I feel like I've been really can't I almost don't want to listen back so I feel like I don't know if I've made any sense but I've actually found this really useful this conversation and sorry I feel like I've been really can't I almost don't want to listen back so I feel like I don't know if I've made any sense but I've actually found this really useful this conversation I think there's so much fear around what we can and can't say and we're

obviously also constantly worried about offending other people don't want to offend mothers by it sounding like we're undermining their choices you also don't want to undermine anyone who says they don't want to have children I think it is the fact that it's it is fundamentally a woman's work it has been seen that way for so long we're literally bringing ushering in new generations like no one would be here without a mother like you can't exist without a mother and yet they're so undervalued so I still I still don't know and for lots of different reasons but I also think that maybe that will change. And maybe, who knows, maybe I'll have a baby in the next few years. I really couldn't tell you. But I now think I want to say that I'm really grateful, actually, for the mothers that are

being really honest. And maybe this will be the thing that will change, that will make things better in the long run. And I want to say thank you, all of you, for sharing all of your messages and being so candid. I think it's such a subject and it's I think we really are in a crisis moment in terms of how we look at this and and how much people are struggling and so I'm just grateful that we get to have these conversations and I hope that I also realized that it was very heteronormative kind of like talking about cis straight couples a lot of the time and that there's so many other ways to build a family like I said either through adoption or just being a around children and giving them support in lots of different ways and obviously if anyone is

struggling with conceiving I know that that can be really heartbreaking and I hope that this conversation wasn't triggering or upsetting because you know there's there's also that there's some people that really ache and are desperate to have children and I understand it might be quite upsetting if it feels like people are flippantly kind of umming and ahhing because also that's something that as I said earlier on we don't even know I say all how to have these ginormous conversations and who knows when the time comes maybe it won't be possible for me but But again, I hope I haven't overshadowed too much in this episode. I honestly could talk about this all day. It's, yeah, it's something that weighs on me a lot. But I hope you enjoyed this. And I'm looking forward to seeing what we talk about next week.

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