Adulting - Let's Talk About... Politics In Friendships

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

 Hello and welcome to Adulting, and the eleventh episode of Let’s Talk About… a broadening of Adulting... where that was about all of the things we never got taught in school, this is almost like seminars on life; where my audience (that's you!), get to chat anonymously about things they couldn't necessarily discuss over lunch with their friends, or feel like they don't have anyone to talk to about whatever it may be.  To get involved, follow me on Instagram @oenone, where every Tuesday we vote on a topic and every Wednesday we dig deep. Let’s Talk About… Politics in friendships. Can you be really close friends with someone and have wildly different beliefs. This came up after Taylor Swift was pictured hugging trump supporter, Brittany Mahomes during the U S open. We will come on to this a bit later on in the discussion  I hope you enjoy  as always, please do rate, review and subscribe! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Or visit connectsontario.ca. Select games only. Guarantee void if platform or game outages occur. Guarantee requires play by at least one customer until jackpot is awarded. Or 11 p.m. Eastern. Restrictions apply. See full terms at canada.casino.fandu.com. Please play responsibly. Hello and welcome to Adulting and the 11th episode of Let's Talk About. A broadening of Adulting where that was about all of the things we never got taught in school. This is almost like Seminars on Life where my audience, that's you, get to chat anonymously about things you can't necessarily discuss over lunch with your friends or feel that you don't

have anyone to talk to about whatever it may be. To get involved, follow me on Instagram at Anoni, where every Tuesday we vote on a topic and every Wednesday we dig deep. Let's talk about politics in friendships. Can you really be close friends with someone and have wildly different beliefs? I actually did a poll for you guys on my Instagram and in response to that question, 28% of you said yes, 40% of you said no, and 32% of you said I don't know. I think this came up because lots of people were talking about when Taylor Swift was pictured hugging Trump supporter Brittany Mahomes during the US Open and we'll come on to that a bit later on in the discussion but some of the initial

responses read it's important to get outside of your bubble and try to understand where other people are coming from. I do think that's a genuinely really important point in a period of time, which is really polarizing and where it seems like the gap between ideologies is growing ever bigger and the extreme ends are getting more populated. However, I think that's more of a conversation around general bridge building between communities and ideologies rather than necessarily within friendships, if that makes sense. Someone else said, where to draw the line? It's normal and healthy to have disagreements, but I did find the Taylor Swift thing odd. Can't imagine being friends with a Trump campaigner. The Taylor Swift thing in of itself, I think friends with a Trump campaigner. The Taylor Swift thing in of itself, I think, is a bit complicated. And actually, I had a message

which said, I thought the Brittany Mahomes-Taylor Swift thing was interesting as there was such a reaction to the fact that they are opposing politics but can still be friends. I think it's really hard because on one hand, actually, our right-lefts are both relatively central and similar. And so to view them as opposing is naive. And I know some great people with different political beliefs for me in the same way, I would not be friends with people because of their religion, even though I might fundamentally disagree with their views. But I also am guilty of just being a Tory hater because they've done such shit to this country. And I've defo said, never fuck a Tory and things like that, that probably perpetuate the idea of them and us but also some of my friends

and family are tory and I don't know I'm rambling but I think basically it's a tricky one lol we can't just live in echo chambers of our own beliefs though I don't think I think that's quite a balanced response I think the Taylor Swift and Britney thing is um uh it's a difficult one because first of all we don't actually know the context of their friendships it could just be that she was being polite and giving a hug as you guys know I'm not like a huge Taylor Swift fan but I do think sometimes in these contexts it's like maybe she was just saying hi to her I mean optically as one of the most famous people on the planet perhaps she could have decided to make a decision which didn't put her in that position where people were then judging her. But I don't know. I don't necessarily look to Taylor Swift as being someone that I

admire because of their views on the world, but that's just a personal thing. So I don't know if it's necessarily representative of general friendships. And another message read, I've known a group of my friends since 16, now 31. And each year, the difference in political opinion gets bigger every year with some people actually becoming unmanageable for me. And I've started to distance myself and actively avoid discussing politics at all. It's an interesting point, isn't it? Because sometimes, like for instance, if I'm on a dating app and someone says not political I would actively just say no I just don't understand how someone can say they're not political politics impacts

every single one of us sometimes positively sometimes negatively and sometimes disproportionately both of those things depending on where you sit on a scale of privilege and so I just find it kind of naive and ignorant and slightly insulting when people are like I don't really get involved in politics not saying that this person has said that but I do find it interesting that how can politics not come up among friends I'm really lucky I think the majority of my friends sit politically in similar spaces with me ideologically view things different view things the same politically the same and also just yeah are open-minded to conversations and discussions and they do come up these conversations do come up

with my friends you know we might go from talking about boys and dresses and you know typically girly and about to come with things to talking about broader world issues and for the most, we might have a mini debate, we might educate each other, we might ask questions, but more usually we're ending up at the same point. Every now and then I'll see friends that I haven't seen for years, and I will, I don't know, make a statement about something, perhaps about Palestine or some other really big issue that's happening in the world and be quite shocked to find that they have starkly different views from me so I understand this point about coming out of your

echo chamber because sometimes I do surround myself with people where I can forget obviously not for very long because I do exist on the internet and that is where a lot of views that I really oppose exist but I can forget that people that exist in my world who are mutual friends or friends of a friend might have opposing views and sometimes if they're someone that I'm literally just at a dinner with and I don't want to get into an argument with I mean I usually do kind of say my point of view I will not try to get into an argument um but I maybe won't make the effort to hang out with them again um if i feel like i'm not going to be able to be able to persuade them to think differently and i personally wouldn't necessarily

want to hang out with someone that had super super opposing views to me especially on things to do with human rights which i really passionately believe in and i yeah so this is where i think like that it gets complicated with politics and we we'll come onto this as well in a sec. Someone else said a really good thing, actually, which was, this made me think, are we less likely to have politically diverse friends who we've made when we're older because we cherry pick them? I actually think I have the most similar political views to my childhood friends, but it's just not something we discuss as much as we never started chatting about it. I think this is interesting. I think obviously when you're growing up and you're very young

and you're like childhood friends, you might not necessarily discuss politics. You might be brought up in like a politically active household. It might be that just in your general day-to-day life, politics is something that bleeds into it because of the way that politics and policy impacts you and your family. But I do think that that is something that I've noticed more it's more that as I got older I definitely aligned myself and like I said if I was going to go out into the back into the world of dating it would be a massive thing for me probably one of the first things that I would look for I wouldn't even entertain dating someone who I felt like had opposing political or ideological views from me but with friendships and and same with friendships that

I've made as an adult I just I if someone you know is like I absolutely loved GB News Piers Morgan and voting Tory I'm just like I don't want to be friends with you not because well no I just I just I just don't know what we'd have in common but it is true that obviously like the friends that you've had for a longer period of time, you've built a friendship around things. You're not coming in with as much baggage or biases or lived experiences that might inform your friendships. And so I definitely think it's more that people that I've known for a very long time, I might come across again and be like, oh, that's interesting. We've really kind of diverged on the way that we view the world and the way that we view society and politics. And so I might be

like friendly-ish with them, but I wouldn't actively seek out a friendship. A message read, yay, it's my submission. I'm so over people saying we can agree to disagree when my human rights are on the line. I'm a queer woman and where I come from, the government is constantly trying to one, ban abortion rights, two, limit LGBTQ human rights. You cannot tell me that if you vote for the party that supports these policies, you still care about me as a human being. If that's your approach, then you're privileged and delusional and have never experienced discrimination. I've cut off male friends because of their conservative beliefs and voting after I tried to understand their point of view, of course. Someone responded to this. is this always true though if somebody votes an opposing party it

doesn't automatically mean they don't care about a person as a human being and are voting against them sometimes it means they're voting for something else whoever we choose to vote for we're always voting for something and voting against something else And someone replied to this, well, yeah, I would say it kind of is, because if you vote for a party, they are for something, let's say economic growth or whatever, I don't know. While at the same time that party is against LGBTQ plus rights or whatever, you're basically saying that LGBTQ plus rights being taken away is not a deal breaker for you. So I don't think you could still say that you care about LGBTQ plus people in that case just as an example you actually are voting against them it doesn't matter what your motivations are for voting for that specific party you can't specify

oh I'm only voting arguments ABC but I don't agree with XYZ you just cast a vote and that is a vote for all of the argument of that party whether you like it or not I think that's really true I remember I don't know like 10 years ago seeing something like you shouldn't vote in your interest you should vote in the interest of people who are the most impacted by these policies and I think that that is a position that people of privilege should take especially often what we'll find in a lot of the conservative viewpoints is it does tend to be a lot about economic policy about conserving wealth and a lot of the negative impacts will be on people that are the most discriminated against in society whether that's due to their sexuality race gender orientation class. I wonder if there's something that's interesting

that's happened because I was just thinking like when I was growing up, obviously you would have people who are very forthright in talking about their views. Actually, I remember listening to something that really made me laugh that was like, no one's like a secret Labour supporter, but you often get lots of like secret Tory voters. Maybe secrecy around voting often does come from people who have more conservative views and perhaps more liberal people are more outward with their policies and politics. Because I do think there is this kind of idea that if you have more left-leaning views, then you're voting for the people. And if you have more conservative views, you tend to be voting for yourself. I wonder if we are becoming so much more vocal about who we vote for and why we vote. And

if that's meaning, I wonder if there has been a generational shift over the last how many decades where we talk about politics more frankly than we used to. I wonder if it didn't, you know, like people like never talk about money, don't talk about politics, can't think of the list of things. Just that kind of like social decorum that used to exist, which was like only talk about niceties. That's kind of come away. And it's become a real facet and important part of who we are. As I said, like on dating apps, you literally identify how you vote. And so we are coming up against this, perhaps more than any other generation previously. I'm sure it did exist, but I definitely think that there has been some sort of shift. Another message read, it's all a bit nuanced, I think. I'm not going to

break up a friendship because we have different opinions on, let's say, bedroom tax, but there are certain ideologies that people have that I honestly just don't think I'd ever become friends with them in the first place. To have such fundamental different views, I think I'd never be in a situation where we'd even meet and get to that point. I wouldn't be in a romantic relationship with someone who's racist or supports genocide or is pro-life, not pro-choice. And someone replied to this, and severity of problems but you don't want to get into debates because it's either boring or you sound like a nag. Hard to find the balance between having a healthy debate to change people's views without getting into an argument or falling out especially when people argue like you're equally knowledgeable when it's literally your job to know about a topic. Someone else replied to that I find it interesting how many people including this person make distinctions between policies they could disagree on and policies they couldn't, when to my mind, everything is connected.

The bedroom tax, for example, has been proven as an unfair way of keeping people in poverty. Economic trade politics are absolutely interconnected with identity politics. So there's actually on the latest episode of Everything Is Content, which came out on Friday, Brutia and I were talking about this article, this long read in the New Yorker about going no contact with parents. And one of the things that I was talking about is what we have to remember, and it's a really hard point of view to get behind, because politics is not only logic, and it's not only statistics and facts and backed up on evidence and anecdotal evidence as well as sort of like whatever else we have so much of an emotional reaction to so many of these policies

and things and we believe them so strongly to be true and what's so weird it's such a cognitive dissonance to be able to get your head behind that this person that's standing on this other side of this figurative wall who is completely opposing also believes exactly truthfully wholly in what they're saying and so when we have a viewpoint around something even if we know it to be true know it intrinsically it is right the person that is standing on the other side of the wall also knows intrinsically that that they're right and they might and even if and it's hard to kind of like believe that because we're like well that's just wrong like how can you think that xyz doesn't impact this person or that that doesn't impact this person but there is so much that builds up to someone to get to a point of having such a fervent belief so much information sometimes propaganda books they've read people they admire

policies years and years I mean there's whole parties you know it's not illegal to vote for these things it's like you can they're not I mean sometimes we believe that some of the policies should be illegal and that they should be completely outdated, but they aren't. And so it is complicated because we do have the agency to vote for these things. And so I don't even know how to kind of like talk about, like explain what I'm trying to say, because I don't know if you've ever tried to get into an argument. I don't know, like say it's a family Christmas dinner and something comes up that's quite a hot debated thing and you just physically can't get the words out because you're just so emotional about it because you feel so much and you just are like I can't physically I can't even talk to you about that how do you not understand and the person on the other side of the argument feels the same there's something in that that we have to recognize which is that in order to get and it's not saying that we have to come around to their point of view or that we have to agree with them or that the end point is meeting in a middle

ground because sometimes there aren't any middle grounds on these issues, but we have to somehow let down our ego and listen to each other and work out how they've added two and two and got four, because we've also added two and two and got four. And so how has we come to that place? And I think with friendships, I don't know, we've spoken about friendships and two and got four. And so how has we come to that place? And I think with friendships, I don't know, we've spoken about friendships a lot across the course of this podcast and Everything Is Content. They can be more ephemeral. They can be things that you can decide to end and that can be okay. Obviously with familial relationships, and actually we obviously we do talk about that in that last episode of Everything Is Content. Sometimes

that is something that is worth working towards. and I have actually had it in my own family where I've had you know a big argument with a family member and actually over the course of time with listening with understanding they have also then come around to view things how I view them but that took like work and years and not just me talking but sending articles and information anyway all of this is to say that it's sometimes not as simple as looking at someone I think when it's someone you don't know someone you're not emotionally entangled with someone who's new to you it's very easy to say I don't want you in your life that is hard if someone already exists in your life and so I do think that there is sometimes there can be a way where you can try to keep them in your life

and through education and through information and through trying to be like, look, hey, this is how I see things. Let me come and show you my working of how I got here. Maybe it won't work. Maybe they're too stuck in their ways. But there is an end point maybe sometimes and it can be salvageable. Another message read, I'm 30 now and the last couple of years I've realised that I'm friends with people for all different reasons. When I come up to these differences of opinions or if something bothers me I think, why are we friends? For some it's because we're immigrants from the same country and our friendship means we're less lonely. Some are because we trauma bonded through work. Others are because we have fun and take our minds off stressful things. Another because we're

mothers. A friendship can break down because of politics, but then I guess you didn't need that friendship. If I'm friends with someone because they fill a void or provide this amazing addition to my life, then their politics wouldn't matter. Maybe that's the same with Taylor and Brittany, but we have no idea why they're friends and who's helping who with what. It's not our business to tell anyone who to be friends with. We do have family who are Trump supporters and still good people. They drop everything to help you. This is another really interesting point because I think what we want to do in life and what makes things easier is to categorize and label people. And over the course of my life, I've come to decide that I don't think that there are

really generally, more often than not, people aren't bad people. They might have bad politics or bad points of view. But I don't think that evilness is like a thing unless you're literally kind of like a sociopath. Because I think there is also a distance. I think a lot of the time that people that have views, and most of us are, I think all of us have the same kind of political point of view. And most of us are talking about people who are on the other side, as it were. And lots of those people might be kind, good people. They might be really good friends. They might be really loving mothers. They might be amazing colleagues. They might be people that have

certain views that, you know, they really, really care about humanity and people, but maybe that extension of kindness only extends to people that look or sound like them, or who have similar privileges as them, or who fit in a specific paradigm of what they believe you know humans their human empathy can stretch to so it can be complicated because I think a lot of the time it also depends on like exposure what people have seen in their lives what they understand if someone is extremely privileged and has grown up in a very closeted environment where they aren't exposed to certain things and they don't really have any life experience and they yeah they're just super privileged I guess then sometimes there it's ignorance and naivety and I'm not saying that means it's excusable just because

you can understand a behavior doesn't mean you can excuse it it's one of my favorite sayings but it does sometimes mean that they perhaps have a huge distance between themselves and the things that they're voting for and actually can't understand the gravity because it is coming from a place of selfishness, their policy voting, but they also like it's an abstraction. All these other things that they're voting against feel abstract and distant to them. I think sometimes what can really make us come a cropper when we're trying to have conversations with people is that because they can be kind in their lives and have friendships and show um and trying to meet people where they're at because and this isn't me being like an apologist for people with bad politics it's something that i can't stand and it's something that i do distance myself from and i do get into arguments and i do

um just fundamentally disagree and find it abhorrent and upsetting but there is also these things exist and it's just like where we see things as like inherently evil or awful or cruel the people that are voting for them might not obviously not seeing that and so like if we tell them you're a bad person or you're evil or you're cool because you do xyz they're just going to be like this person's chatting shit because that is not who i am and that's not how I see myself and so there has to be a way that we're able to have conversations and I'm saying when I say we I mean like people with privilege people who aren't necessarily directly impacted by some of these policies who are can take on a bit of that emotional labor rather than expecting the people that are bearing the brunt of the weight of these

policies to be sticking up for themselves or putting themselves in harm's way when they are coming up against people who perhaps can be bad to them again like i'm not saying that people who are racist like or people who are transphobic or ableist or whatever are good people i'm saying that they clearly won't see themselves as bad people may not understand their their biases and their prejudices and so educating talking meeting people where they're at trying to show them round in a way that comes that is just not not manipulative I don't know right okay another message because I'm waffling my opinion has changed as I've gotten older I think it's so interesting to have a diverse

friendship group of different beliefs and viewpoints and opinions. And as long as everyone is respectful, which you'd assume they would be because they're your friends, I think it can work. I grew up very poor and working class, but I've now graduated and have a good job. And most of my friends have middle-class upbringings. And I think we can learn so much from each other. But I know my younger sisters don't think like this, but I think with time they might change. And a response to this read, I think many people will agree with this, but it's not easy if those political values affect your life. LGBTQ immigrants, you need an abortion, I can't afford to travel. As long as it doesn't affect you, I guess you can wait and see if and how they change. But it comes from a place of safety or privilege.

And another response to this read, I've never understood this whole echo chamber thing. I'm a black woman and this impacts me almost every second of my life, regardless of how I feel about it. The very least I can do to protect myself is be purposeful about who I surround myself with when it's in my control. My echo chamber, and in vertical commas, are friends, are the sole area I have control over, what I'm exposed to, and is necessary for my sanity. And I think that's kind of exactly what I was trying to say is that we kind of, I think, should operate in a way that's like, just because it's not impacting us shouldn't mean that we then have no stake in it and don't find it important to take these conversations home with us when we read about how people even if it doesn't impact us or our families or our friends if it's something

that we have control over to change then that should be a conversation that we're bringing into our homes and trying to educate you might not have any trans friends you might not know any trans people but say someone in your family is saying stuff that's really transphobic just because it's not affecting you I don't think that should mean that you just are like oh well you know because that could actually have a massive impact if you just sit down with a family member and go look I actually really want to talk to you about this I think that your viewpoints are really wrong and dangerous and And actually, I want to try and, I mean, that might not be the best opener for it, but you know what I mean? Just, I think that this is where I

stand with politics and ideology. We're talking like across the board for the huge breadth and spectrum of politics. Another message read, I'm in a relationship with a trans person and I've had to end friendships because of people not being willing to learn or being ignorant. It's been very painful, but I categorically believe that politics has spanned beyond the taxes and rates. It's human rights and survival now. The far right slope is so steep that my friend not using the right pronouns for my partner can make me worry they actually think far worse behind my back. Friendship is rooted in values. If you differ on politics in your friendship, it'll never be more than surface level. I will die on this hill. Losing friends hasn't been easy, but I think it was only a matter of

time. If they're subtly against my sexuality or partner's identity, I can find more people who have my values. It's such a difficult, heightened thing. I think that we are perhaps I think that there is something to be said for cutting people off because of their political views I think that it's a bit like voting with your wallet or boycotting I think that if you are able if that's how you can stand for what you believe in then that is an avenue that you can and should take if you cannot withstand someone's viewpoints if it directly harms you or people that you love then absolutely cutting someone off is well within your rights and I think it's completely understandable I do think that maybe if we have the energy and the emotional bandwidth to if we have someone

in our life who perhaps is you know differing from us politically and we can and we love them for all of these other reasons and we are able to educate them I think that's a really brilliant thing to take on and I think that there is space there's a really good book that I read absolutely years ago which I now can't remember if it's quite problematic but it's called it's called the righteous mind and it's kind of about that idea is talking about about how you win someone around to a point of view and it's actually not by arguing or by telling them they're stupid or wrong or bad it's about trying to get people to come around to a point of view so it's called the righteous mind why good people are divided by politics and religion by jonathan hate morality binds and

blinds most of human nature was shaped by natural selection operating at an individual level but we have a few group related adaptations and it's just really interesting so i think like can you be friends with someone with differing political views of course you can and people do it I think that it depends how entrenched you are in politics whether it's like something that you just are really interested in or whether you are just directly impacted by it is going to impact how much you have a bandwidth to be around people who you know harm you your family your loved ones whatever but I do think that maybe this blanket idea of I know that I said it earlier with dating but like if someone's already in your life if they're if

they are voting for a different party from you if they are rational and kind and loving in other areas there's nothing to be I don't there's anything wrong with being like I still want to be their friend and like someone else said in a message I have the privilege and the safety of being able to be around them even though that they are doing things, which I feel like harm other people. Maybe there's a way that I can talk to them, educate them, give them books to read, go to see movies with them. And, you know, in gentle ways, just try and bring them around. That might take years. But yes, I think you can be friends with people. It's completely up to you. I think that obviously the other problem is it might upset other people who are friends who maybe are

impacted is really complicated really and I don't know if I've given any resolution to this I think that as a general rule it does seem weird to be friends with someone with completely opposing views for you but if you are friends with them hopefully there is an active part of your friendship which is you trying to teach them and show them why you think that way. But yes, I hope that this kind of, I did this topic justice. I hope you enjoyed this episode. As always, please do rate, review and subscribe and I will see you here next week. Bye. Fanduel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning. Which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute?

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