Adulting - Let's Talk About... Politics Now

Episode Date: November 10, 2024

 Hello and welcome to Adulting, and the seventeenth episode of Let’s Talk About… a broadening of Adulting... where that was about all of the things we never got taught in school, this is almost like seminars on life; where my audience (that's you!), get to chat anonymously about things they couldn't necessarily discuss over lunch with their friends, or feel like they don't have anyone to talk to about whatever it may be.  To get involved, follow me on Instagram @oenone, where every Tuesday we vote on a topic and every Wednesday we dig deep. Let’s Talk About… Politics Now. The submission read ‘How politics is no longer just politics and is now just a social media circus. It terrifies me.’ This comes after Trump’s unprecedented re-election as President this week. I hope you enjoy, as always please do rate, review and follow the show!https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998https://www.economist.com/international/2024/03/13/why-the-growing-gulf-between-young-men-and-womenhttps://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/literary-dilemmas-influencer-coaching-boys-vs-girls/id1719284496?i=1000676168561 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Fandu Casino Daily Jackpots. Guaranteed to hit by 11 p.m. with your chance at the number one feeling, winning. Which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do. Daily Jackpots. A chance to win with every spin and a guaranteed winner by 11 p.m. every day. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario.

Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Or visit connectsontario.ca. Select games only. Guarantee void if platform or game outages occur. Guarantee requires play by at least one customer until jackpot is awarded. Or 11 p.m. Eastern. Restrictions apply. See full terms at canada.casino.fandu.com. Please play responsibly. Hello and welcome to Adulting and the 17th episode of Let's Talk About. A broadening of Adulting where that was about all of the things we never got taught in school. This is almost like seminars on life, where my audience, that's you, get to chat anonymously about things you can't necessarily

discuss over lunch with your friends, or maybe just feel like you don't really have anyone to talk to about whatever it may be. To get involved, follow me on Instagram at Anoni, where every Tuesday we vote on a topic and every Wednesday we dig deep. Let's talk about politics now. The submission read, how politics is no longer just politics and is now just a social media circus. It terrifies me. This obviously comes after Trump's unprecedented re-election as president this week. I hope you enjoy and as always please do rate, review and follow the show. Some messages. American here can't stop tearing up what an embarrassment this country is. Imagine voting a felon and taking away basic human rights.

Everyone is stuck in an echo chamber and the concept of a mass shared reality is slipping away. The media has a lot to answer for. It's killed democracy. Why do we want celebrities as politicians? And from the person that submitted this topic, I actually lay awake thinking about this all night in the context of the US election, but I've seen the same thing with British politics. I remember voting in a time not long ago when politics had no place in social media. Elections are no longer just about policies and are now about inciting hatred to get more clicks and likes. The outcome of this election demonstrates that the USA has become a breeding ground for misogynistic ideals which are then perpetuated worldwide by social media. It creates

a safe space for Tates and the Trumps to have even louder voices, loud voices which have a far bigger reach and a far bigger influence on young men's ideology than the real world around them does. Whether we think so or not, this affects us all. In the episode of Everything Is Content, my other podcast that I host with Ruchira Sharma and Beth McColl,

we spoke about some recent findings and research into the growing ideological gender gap between young boys and girls and men and women. And I'll link those two articles, there's one in the Financial Times and one in The Economist, I'll link those in the show notes. But it might be worth listening to that episode if you want to go more into that, because this person's message is so right that it is really seeping into especially the minds of the younger men currently another message a friend in the us sent me a tweet about how a lot of male hobbies gaming sports fitness gambling is totally saturated with right-wing propaganda i think the world and politics was easier to understand when there were fewer competing narratives, a set amount of news channels and newspapers.

Whereas now on social media, there are thousands of different versions of the truth. It's so hard to comprehend. And so much of it is right wing. It makes it very, very difficult for the left to have any counter narrative or cut through because they can't even track what the opposition is saying. Another friend was campaigning in the US and she said she was getting wild targeted ads about how pro-abortion Trump was. And I think lots of polarizing issues like Israel and Gaza will have been manipulated to people in the same way. Another message. I think the algorithms and social media you see has a lot of impact. An already slightly Trump supporter will see lots of information pro him and lots of negative media

to the opposition and vice versa. It removes the ability for people to easily see both sides of the argument without searching it out and doing their own research. And even if someone does do the extra work to see the opposite side, they'll still have a lot of biased messaging to unpack. Echo chambers of the same opinions and propaganda. What's been quite interesting actually since the election is, I don't know how many of you guys still use Twitter X, but since Elon Musk has been in charge, my echo chamber has actually been somewhat dismantled. I do get fed quite a lot of right-wing accounts. And post-election, I have actually seen more videos of Trump's campaign

and some of the messaging. And so many women tweeting like, I don't even know why people think that they're going to lose rights, like nothing's going to change. The more that I see of it, the more I can completely understand how if that's all you're seeing, and you don't have any cynicism around Trump, and you haven't decided to perhaps interrogate a bit further into what he says, because he's very charismatic and engaging. And unfortunately, he's actually really funny and he's just great with the crowd. I can understand how, if that's all you're seeing, you can have a completely warped view of what his policy and policies actually are. Another message read, I think we often conflate stupidity with bigotry. For example, they're voting Trump because they're stupid. They're voting Brexit because they're uneducated. It's so harmful because it does two things.

It undermines those people and disenfranchises them from the conversation. So they're less likely to listen to other opinions. It also completely overlooks the fact that a lot of very smart, intelligent people are also very racist, homophobic and bigoted. Also, to be clear, I do not think all of the people that voted for Brexit or Trump or whatever are bigoted, especially Brexit. I think a lot have genuine concerns about the economy, etc. But I think we do so much harm by accusing others of being idiots. It achieves nothing. I totally agree.

This is something we spoke about in that Everything Is Content episode. Since the inception of adulting, we've been talking about how polarized the world is. But right now, I think we're really seeing just how far this wedge between these demographics is causing an issue because both sides are sort of like hurling insults and it's not very inviting. It's not the best way to win an argument.

But what is really hard when it's such high stakes and when people are fearful for their lives and their humanities and their livelihood and their rights, obviously it's very difficult to try and have and often agree with the people that are on that side at the same time there is sort of like a level of of smugness and hierarchy coming from each end and it's actually there's nothing about convincing the other person it's just sort of proving your own intellect your own intellect, your own understanding of the subject, your own beliefs. And as smart and as clever and as engaging as these debates can be, it just shows like neither side ever walks away feeling like they've learned something or like they feel interested to perhaps revise their worldviews. They simply feel more cemented in their belief because it's an attack and it's a fight and it's like fighting fire with fire. I guess what we also have to remember is that it

was overwhelmingly white men and women that came out to vote for Trump. And there were other minority groups that also voted for Trump who previously haven't. And a lot of that from the statistics that people are saying is due to the fact that Trump was promising better economic stability for people who feel very left behind. But I think thinking to the fact that Trump was promising better economic stability for people who feel very left behind. But I think thinking about the fact that it was a lot of white women and men who voted for him and who are very much espousing anti-wokeness views, it reminds me of that phrase, equality to the privileged feels like oppression. And I think that's where we are right now is so many people who have for so long been the default privileged group are feeling that through liberal

policy and more left-leaning views, which leads towards inclusion, they are then somehow losing out. And I think that the only way to readdress that is somehow finding a way to educate in a non-defensive way. Another message read, not a fully formed thought yet, but I'm thinking about the social media piece and not taking away from propaganda at all, because obviously that exists. But is there something about it being okay if used in the right way? Obviously, it's irrelevant now, but Kamala being on Call Her Daddy, is that not the same as Joe Rogan's campaign for Trump? It's not expressed in the same way because they're more respectful on the left, but Kamala ran a huge social media

campaign. Yes, people don't invest in policies the same way, but isn't social media the only way to connect now? We have to work on regulation of social media, not discourage. This takes us right back to the initial submission about social media and the way that the landscape of politics is changing. I even felt myself when I saw Kamala on, it's funny because I always say Kamala and then Trump, maybe I should say Harris, when I saw Harris on SNL, and I loved that skit, and then you see Trump on Joe Rogan, and then it does feel like

such a sort of like flattening of politics where it is all about getting the only way to get through to the public is through these platforms. It does feel slightly like a caricature almost, it feels quite dystopian. And so I agree that it's not just Donald Trump that's doing it, Kamala is doing it too, because that is the way to get to voters and reach certain demographics who wouldn't otherwise be engaged. Another message read, people's commentary on social media is exactly the attitudes that have led millions of Americans to feel ignored by mainstream politics. Dismissing Trump as a racist without addressing the worries on the economy, illegal immigration and fighting foreign wars without looking after the people at home is how this

happened. Kamala should have done Joe Rogan and actually spoken to the electorate rather than relying on her base and dismissing Trump as a criminal. I do believe Trump to be one of the worst people alive, but you've got to look at the full picture. Another message read, I think the problem is it's unregulated. If a British newspaper publishes something fundamentally untrue, they are held accountable and have to publish a correction. Could be doing more, but that's another debate. Social media companies are doing nothing to help users filter out what is fact and what is fiction. This isn't just a Gen Z problem, but it worries me that young people are growing up with TikTok as their main source of

political information. They haven't had the life experience and arguably aren't equipped with the critical thinking skills to filter out misinformation or to question the echo chambers. I've seen an unprecedented number of bot accounts posting on social media promoting extreme views and inciting hate. All this does is fuel the echo chambers that exist. And frankly, it's no wonder people get sucked in and another message read i always find this so interesting the way social media is made out to be so difficult to control and regulate but when covid was at its height the government found a way to tackle anti-vax sentiments and any related misinformation because it didn't support their own agenda by

flagging up removing things etc very easily Yet, for example, the racist abuse online towards the England footballers after the Euros was left to spread with no intervention. So I don't think it's a question of ability to regulate, but more of a question of who wants to regulate it and with what intention. Also, not to mention the big tech giants are run by the billionaires

who literally have the governments in a chokehold because they're so integral to the global economy that they're quite literally too big to fail. Sorry, that's such a tangent. But obviously social media played a huge role in the selection and politics in general these days. And to be honest, I feel so disheartened today. I have no faith in any of our current systems. And I think we need to start again.

It is completely disheartening. And obviously I think Elon Musk again with X. It's just been, I really wonder if it's time for me to come off X actually. I love Twitter, it's my favourite platform, it used to be my favourite platform. It's the one I get really stuck in a scroll hole in, it's the one that I find really interesting journalists and articles and ideas. However, as I said, not only do I get fed a lot of sort of like right-wing propaganda, it is just a cesspit now. And I wonder if we need to kind of pull out, you know, vote with our engagement on these platforms. But I guess there is the argument

as well that if everyone who's sort of not pro Elon Musk leaves that, then how much more powerful does that platform become? But I don't really know. Another message read, social media and everyone being constantly online means people want everything easy nowadays which means people lean towards statements and ideas that are easier to understand if one side can make simple statements no matter how untrue like immigration is hurting the economy for example and the other side are trying to explain how really systems are more complex and solutions will be harder more complex then people are more likely to believe the first side because that argument has been easier to understand or sounds like it will be harder, more complex, then people are more likely to believe the first side because that argument has been easier to understand

or sounds like it will be an easier solution. It's going to be very hard to change the tide on this in our current landscape as people aren't willing or given the right information to really understand the choices they're being presented with. I think social media, working from home, being online more, loss of local shopping, et cetera,

have also contributed to a loss of community and a reduction in empathy. Same story with the other topics like climate change and individual actions another message a lot of my peers were surprised today and it really reminded me of the brexit vote back in 2016 living in a large city which is predominantly middle class educated but also often quite diverse you don't often hear what's going on outside of that and i think this relates back a bit to the app you did on different politics amongst friends most of the time we date hang out with people of similar beliefs even if it's almost subconscious i say this to someone who's pretty left and liberal myself but i think at times we can be a little

worse than the other side at cutting off people who don't align with our values because they're so important to us that often we don't hear what's going on outside. Trump gained a lot of votes from minorities and maybe we aren't hearing their issues in the right way and someone replied to this saying this, as a liberal American living in a pretty rural purple county I was not as shocked as my friends in cities or on the coasts. I think the left is always so sure we're right and have the moral high ground and if you disagree you're a bad person and that pushes a lot of people away if they have even some differing opinions. This is kind of making me think about, I don't know if you guys have ever had a friend

who has a really awful partner. And if you tell them that you really dislike their partner and that you're worried about them or you think their partner's abusive or whatever it might be, they might then stop talking to you about that person and actually kind of pull away from you whereas if you go in and you understand and talk to them and say like oh I know you really love them do you think about this like you keep a line of communication open you support them you don't say you know superlatively negative things because you're not in that relationship and you can't experience what they're experiencing. And you allow them to feel comfort in expressing what's happening without judgment.

And I've been through that a few times with friends. And eventually, through being supportive of them and not shutting them down or saying they're stupid or trying to point out the obvious, they may eventually come to that conclusion themselves. But it's much easier if you haven't kind of been really black and white about what's happening. And as much as we on the left have such emotional relationships with our views in terms of we feel very righteous about our beliefs, and that's so fair. And I feel the the same too I think we have to remember that people who vote differently from us also have that level of emotional entanglement with their views and whether or not they are bigoted or racist or homophobic they might not see themselves as

those things they might have be very kind of like focused on specific things whether it's their own financial situation or their own hardships or areas in their life where they feel like they need support and I think when we immediately shut people down and don't listen and go well you're just stupid that's stupid it's it's kind of the same as when you go to a friend oh my god you should just break up with him because then they're just thinking well you don't understand you don't know him like I do it's a bit like politics well you don't understand you don't understand how I feel and I think that's it's a really hard thing to do because we're fighting for something that feels so real and so important and on this another message read

I think it's really really important if we want to change people's minds, we have to be willing to understand where their views come from and what they actually think and feel. And only then can you begin to have a rational conversation. It's hard because it means listening to things that you fundamentally disagree with. But unless we're willing to hear what the other side is saying, how are we any better? I'm not saying you have to agree with what people are saying, but you have to at least hear it. And another message read, my uncle is a big Trump voter. I remember arguing with him years ago about this and his rationale was so simple. He's a blue collar working class construction worker and under Trump, he had $1,800 more in his bank account at the end of the year. He needs that money. He does not think about abortion rights, macroeconomics or social policy. I wish I could educate him more, but I also think

it's disrespectful of me to say he voted wrong when he has a few more dollars to spend on groceries for his family. Trump did this through various taxes and bonus payments to low earners. The media sensationalizes it to suggest everyone who votes Trump does so because they hate women, are racist, support the KKK, etc. In reality, people are struggling and vote for who they think will help them day to day. And I thought that that message is so pertinent and important because I think the backdrop of all of this is that we are living through unprecedented times almost constantly. We've just come out of the back of a pandemic there is a cost of living crisis survival everyone is kind of in survival mode another message read i've had many conversations with friends about this topic and often land on the power of the socially liberal fiscally

conservative majority who do mostly believe in human rights for all and lgbt rights and that more should be done to tackle racism and the environment etc etc but for them the protection or policies offered by the conservative party or republicans in this case are enough to push them to vote in that direction nearly always to protect their own wealth i think it links back to some of the things mentioned in your app on whether you can be friends with someone with different political views for some people it's not a deal breaker if the party or person they're voting for is a racist or a rapist or a wannabe dictator. Another message read,

as a Brit who lives in the US and is finishing up a PhD in political science, I think we're placing the emphasis on the wrong thing. They probably could have done a better job at promoting policies, particularly economic ones, and highlighting Harris's achievements over her career. But the key thing is that a key portion of the electorate genuinely do not believe a woman can run this country. It's deeply rotten to its core, and that has to be addressed. Also, the religion

thing plays a huge role here. The fanatic Christians need someone who plays into their agenda, and unfortunately, they're a large number, but that isn't something Dems should just pander to either. And another, as an American, I agree with this. And there is also the fact that there is a very large, rabid fan base for Trump. Think about how hard it is to try to change the mind of someone in a cult. They see reality very differently than other people and they refuse to change their minds. Obviously, that's a very general statement, but it holds true for many. Some people change their minds and voted for Harris or RFK this time around,

but those weren't typically the huge fans in the first place. It's incredibly difficult to sway someone who has bought into a personality, culture, and mindset that much. Another message. America has a core racism and misogyny that occasionally ducks behind the clouds, but there's also just a cadre of people who are just left behind economically, socially, and the centre-left core of the Dem Party just has no clue how to connect with them. Their votes for Trump are still the same protest vote from 2016.

When picking on immigrants, banning trans athletes, and cutting off Ukraine doesn't actually do anything to improve the lives of the people left behind by decades of trickle-down economics, maybe a less moronic populism could begin to emerge. I think what's so blatant now from every single message we've received is that so much of this election and what we're seeing in the UK is actually just about belonging.

It's about people feeling seen, feeling worthy, feeling like they have a right to be and exist in the world, that they have access to all of the things that they need to live a happy and fulfilling life and I think because we have decades of poor poor governments who have left people behind where the disparity in wealth is ever growing and people are presenting as unhappier and the idea of the American dream has been rightfully dismantled because that just isn't something that is true. It's not, as we understand, like you can't just work really hard and make your way to the top.

There are so many different intersections of privilege which can act as barriers to you to achieve that. Somehow we need to get everyone onto the same page. And clearly what's been going on in the last decades we've seen has not worked. Pitting people against each other does not work. Calling each other stupid does not work. Understanding intersectionality through the prism of identity politics is really important, right? Because it helps us to see where our differences are and where systemic privileges play a part in how the world looks to us and how the world looks at us.

Oddly, though, that kind of dissemination of different groups and minorities and and ethnicities and genders has also become a way to weaponize against each other because we can pit and compare and give each other all these labels and what really needs to happen is that we everyone is looking at each other as humans all vying for the same thing which is a happy healthy life on an earth, which hopefully we won't eventually kill. But with this pitting against each other, even if it's sort of like a positive discrimination against white people, the way that that's viewed is as a discrimination, the positive is kind of completely ignored by certain people because it's always, we've spoken

about this before, but it's like the difference between sort of like the personal and the systemic and when you are systemically oppressed if you're not systemically oppressed because that's not something that you experience day to day then you feel your personal oppression as the same as systemic and get confused about why it's not being granted the same way when we're trying to fix systemic issues, it doesn't, the personal issues also coexist with that. This is probably all word salad. I think what we've seen from this election, and I mean, a lot of the messages in were also people feeling fearful that, you know, we're going to see reform coming in in the UK. And, you know, this pattern is something that could be followed. And as we've seen in Europe, you know, the far

right is rising and growing. And as we spoke about in Europe you know the far right is rising and growing and as we spoke about in the everything is content episode when we were talking about the way that young Gen Z boys are being indoctrinated into more far right views because they feel disillusioned and because they feel like they are now a group which is viewed as inherently wrong or evil or less than than women which isn't true but but because the language that we're using around the impacts of male actions on women, once I guess someone calls you, it's like the origin story of every villain. If someone is treated badly or unkindly, hurt people hurt people. And so I think when we're using wounding words it's really complicated isn't it

because it's like we're often talking to our oppressors or talking on behalf of people who are oppressed by certain systems and we're trying to protect them but through that we can then disenfranchise the people who happen to belong to the demographic of people that act as oppressors and that can turn them further towards being the oppressor. I'm not a psychologist or a philosopher or a politician, so I don't have the answers, but it seems quite clear from this conversation that what really needs to happen is actually a letting down of our ego on both sides and somehow bridging that gap. Unfortunately, because of social media and the way that politics is moving, it's like, is this going to happen at the top level? It feels unlikely. I guess this has to be a grassroots individual action thing

and probably falling more heavily on the people that are privileged and that aren't going to be totally emotionally taxed and drained from talking to people who have views that can be dangerous towards certain demographics and groups. And trying to understand and trying to... I've spoken about it before, but there's this book, The Righteous Mind, which is all about this, but trying to get people on side through compassion and understanding and inclusion. If you look at all the statistics on sort of like incels and men who feel violent towards women because they feel like they have been ostracized from society

because they're not desirable enough, because they cannot get women in the way that they want it's often about loneliness and feeling like they don't belong and so I guess it's like how do we create a sense of belonging and someone sent in a message which I thought was really true which is on the left we are very exclusive exclusionary when someone espouses the wrong views and when someone says something we disagree with we can be very black and white. It's like, okay, well, you're out. You know, you can't belong here. It's cancel culture. And I even posted on my story, you know, Adam Buxton recently has been platforming some guests, which I don't really understand.

I feel like Adam Buxton is someone that I really, really like as a broadcaster and podcaster. I listen to all of his episodes. And more recently, he's kind of been platforming people whose views I disagree with. And it brings me out and hives a bit I'm listening like what are you doing but then again I'm like maybe that is where we need to be going you know instead of having these podcasts like Joe Rogan just having Trump and even with adulting I used to only interview people that you know kind of aligned with my views. That maybe has to be this

thing where we're bringing each other in and we're trying to fight against this polarisation. And it might be uncomfortable, but I guess we have to get to the point where we're saying like a conversation is not an endorsement. The no platforming thing, the cancel culture, that's the route we've been going down. We've been saying if someone has views that we believe are fundamentally dangerous, then we shouldn't platform them. And by we, I'm talking very generally about the left. However, that just pushes them further

from what we've seen into these oppositions. And perhaps the only way to fix that is to say, actually, we are going to have to have some really uncomfortable conversations with some really unsavory people. And we're going to have to figure out a way to find where is this common ground? Where is the humanity? Because I don't know what good it's doing the way that we're going. And there is also this reticence, this feeling of why does it have to be that we open our arms to people that can harm us? Because why is that our responsibility? I guess the selection, someone also shared Jamila Jamil's

stories, which were really good. And I will link her, I'll put her, I think it should be on a post now, but I'll put it in the show notes as well. It's like we have to take this as an action point. It's not the result that we wanted, but it's a symptom of a much broader global issue. And so the only way out is to change, make change. And I guess that's going to have to come from all of us. Change the way that we view things, change the way that other people view things and somehow bring each other together oh god I always feel like I'm waffling on a bit I can't quite get my words up properly and I can't quite explain what I mean but I hope you know what I mean I hope that this has been remotely insightful and interesting I found so many of your messages really enlightening

on this subject and I will add them all onto a highlight on my page called politics now which you can look at and have a read through because obviously I didn't read out every single message. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope that you're feeling okay. It is a scary place. It feels scary. It feels like everything's going to shit. to harness their own power and hope that we can somehow change the tide on the way things are moving and that we see this actually as a punctuation mark in a ever-emerging far right and we actually go no we've got to stop that and maybe it has to be through a means that feels

uncomfortable and difficult I don't know don't come to me for any political advice I'm not a politician I just a little old lady with some thoughts and feelings. Okay, I'll see you next week. Love you, bye. Bye. Even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do. Daily Jackpots. A chance to win with every spin and a guaranteed winner by 11 p.m. every day. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Or visit connectsontario.ca.

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