Afford Anything - Ask Paula - I'm Six Years Away From Financial Independence, But I Want to Quit Now

Episode Date: June 1, 2018

#132: BONUS EPISODE!! On the first Friday of the month for the remainder of the year, I'm rolling out an additional bonus episode. As you know, this podcast airs weekly on Mondays. I'm thinking about maybe -- MAYBE -- expanding the podcast to twice-a-week. Maybe. But before I make such a big commitment, I figured I'd test the waters by producing *one* extra episode per month. I'll release this on the first Friday of every month for the rest of 2018. Today's episode is the June 2018 First Friday Bonus Episode, in which I answer three questions from the Afford Anything community. Enjoy! ____ Cameron accepted a job in the Middle East, where he earns 60 percent more than he could make at a comparable job in the U.S. He also gets free health care and 30 vacation days annually, which gives him time to travel with his wife and four kids. And thanks to his income and benefits, he and his family are on-track to reach financial independence in six years. The problem? He's just not that into his job. He'd like to pursue something more interesting ... he's just not sure what. And since he doesn't know what's next, he's worried that he might be running *away* from something rather than running *into* something else. Should he tough out the next six years? Or should he quit, even if that will delay his journey to financial independence? __ Hailey is 22, and she bought her first home last year. She bought a condo for $103,000 with a 3 percent downpayment and a 30-year, fixed-rate mortgage at 4.5 percent. Her condo was in mediocre shape at the time, so she's spent the past year renovating the space -- such as replacing the flooring and getting rid of the popcorn ceilings. Her neighbor recently sold his condo for $120,000, so Hailey is reasonably sure that -- between the comparable sale and the improvements that she's made -- her condo could appraise for at least that much. She'd like to get an appraisal, so that she can get rid of her $60 monthly PMI payment. But an appraisal costs between $660 to $850, and she's only planning to live in the condo for another year. She thinks she'll keep the condo for around three more years. Should she get an appraisal? Are there any red flags or drawbacks to doing this? ________ Danica called to say "congratulations!" on the 10-year anniversary of quitting my job. She's curious: how did I reach financial independence? I answer these three questions in today's First Friday Bonus Episode. Enjoy! For links to resources mentioned in this episode, visit http://affordanything.com/episode132  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

toward anything but not everything. Every decision that you make is a trade-off against something else, and that is true not just of your money, but also of your time, your focus, your energy, your attention, anything in your life that's a scarce or a limited resource. And so the questions become twofold. Number one, what's most important to you? What do you need to do in order to live the best life that you can?

And number two, how do you actually align your day-to-day behaviors to reflect that? Answering these two questions is a lifetime practice, and that is what this podcast is here to explore. My name is Paula Pan. I'm the host of the Afford Anything podcast. Normally, we are a weekly show that airs every Monday morning, but guess what? You are listening to the very first Friday bonus episode. So I've decided that for the rest of the year 2018, on the first Friday of the month, I'm dropping a bonus episode, and that is what you're listening to right now. These bonus episodes are a way for me to answer more of your questions.

We've been getting a lot of questions that have come in from you, the community. And there's been such a backlog that creating these additional episodes, these first Friday bonus episodes, helps me answer more of your questions. On top of that, I've been contemplating the possibility of maybe, maybe, maybe turning this into a twice a week show where we would drop two episodes a week. But before I make that big of a commitment, because that would double my workload, before I decide to outright double my workload, I figured I'd at least dip my toe in the water by starting with one additional episode per month. So that's what you're hearing right now. And in today's episode, I am answering three questions that have come in from you.

And today's first question comes from Cameron. Hi, Paula, I love your work. I've been working a corporate job for about 11 years in a field that's okay, but that I don't love. A year and a half ago, I took an expat job and moved my family to the Middle East. The company for which I work offers incredible benefits, including free health care, and about 30 vacation days, and I make about 60% more than I would in the States if I worked in my field. This allows me to travel with my wife and four kids on multiple international trips each year, while still reaching fire in about six years at the age of 46.

I feel very grateful for this opportunity. But at the same time, there are several pursuits out there that seem more enjoyable. but they are not very lucrative, often risky, and there's no guarantee that if I had to make money doing them, that I would like them any more than my current job. Since I don't have a clear vision of what I want to do, it seems like a classic case of running from something instead of running to something. So it was bad to just put my head down and grind for a few more years, instead of heating the oft-repeated advice of making everyday count and following your passions, etc. Do you have any advice for how to find that thing to run to or how to frame the decision?

Thanks for all you do. So what I'm hearing is that you have multiple goals. On one hand, you have a goal of reaching fire within six years. And for people who are listening who aren't familiar with that, fire is an acronym that stands for financial independence retire early. So the point at which a person reaches fire is the point at which their passive income, often through investments, is sufficient enough that they don't have to work. They can work, but they don't have to. So, Cameron, it sounds like on one hand, you have this goal of reaching fire within six years, and the position that you're in is perfect for that.

You have a high-income, free health care, and I'm guessing that there are probably some tax advantages to living out there as well. On the other hand, it sounds as though you also have a goal of doing something. some type of work right now that would create more meaning and fulfillment in your life, that would make the alarm clock more tolerable. The problem is that these two goals conflict with each other. And so the question to ask yourself is not necessarily which one do you want more, but rather, which suffering are you more willing to endure? And here's what I mean by that. There are lots of things that we, like any person, wants, but that we're not necessarily willing to go through the

suffering of getting. So for example, I would love to have six-pack abs, but I'm not willing to actually do the work that's required to get them. I would love to learn how to play the piano, but I'm not actually willing to practice. And so the question isn't what do I want. I can easily create a long list of wants, but the question is what pain, what suffering am I willing to undergo in order to get to that want? I made a lot of sacrifices while I was building financial independence. A lot of Friday nights when everybody else was out partying and I was doing real estate stuff. And likewise, it sounds as though your goal is fire and you're making those sacrifices right now. You're going through the pain of that right now because you're working a job that you don't necessarily

want to be working. I don't know if you actually want to be living in the Middle East or if that's kind of a tradeoff that you're making so that you can have this higher income at the moment. But it sounds to me, from what I'm hearing, that you are in the throes of that suffering that is necessary to achieve any goal. And you're looking around and saying to yourself, you know what, this kind of sucks. Do I really want it? Now, I don't want to tell you what to do, but I kind of suspect that you know the answer to your own question. Because it does sound a little bit like you recognize that you might be grass is always greenering. And the reason that I say that is because of the comment that you made that you aren't necessarily running to something, you're simply running from something.

So you're running from suffering is a hard word, but I'm just going to keep using it. It's an extreme word, but I'm just going to keep using it. You want to run from the suffering and the sacrifice that you're making right now because six years feel so far away. And it's natural to want to escape that in the same way that somebody who's training to become an all-star athlete is like, I don't want to go to practice again this morning. Or in the same way that somebody who's studying to take the MCAT is like, oh, another practice exam, seriously. The day-to-day of it is not that great.

But the thing is, if you were to leave your job and try something else that you thought was interesting, I think you would find that same struggle there. And again, I don't want to tell you what to do, but the fact of the matter is everything, this is going to sound really glum, But everything kind of sucks a little bit. And that's what makes it great ultimately. Everything that is worthwhile is hard. And if you were to try some new venture, some new entrepreneurial venture, for example, or a new artistic venture, you'll find that, sure, there are a few moments of glory in it.

But underneath that, you know, the glamorous part is the tip of the iceberg. And underneath that is a whole bunch of just churning and getting through it. that's true of regardless of whether you're starting a business, writing a book, that's true of literally anything that you could be doing. And what I hear from when I listen to your question, and I might be wrong, but what I'm hearing is that the daily grind of what you're currently doing is getting to you. And that's totally natural and it's totally understandable. But changing horses midstream might not be the best strategy because you're so close to financial independence. I mean, six years is so close.

And you've got four kids. You have a much higher bar for financial independence than a lot of other people. So the fact that you, with a wife and four kids, are able to reach financial independence in six years, I guarantee you there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who are listening to this right now who are like hitting the radio in their car going like, oh, gee, if only I could be in that position, I would be so happy. But I also completely understand why it doesn't feel like that in the moment. And so what I would recommend is not quitting your job because, A, you're on a great track and the finish line is so close. And B, as you said yourself, there's nothing that you actually would rather be doing. You would be running from something, but not into something. So I would stay where, I mean, if it were me, I would stay where you are, finish out the next six years, reach financial independence,

and then the whole world is going to open up to you and your family. And you'll be able to do so much more. And in the meantime, during these six years, I don't want you to just sit around being miserable. Find ways to derive meaning and purpose and fulfillment during these next six years that are outside of your job. So I hope this isn't a disappointing answer because I realize that what I have essentially just said is, hey, I don't want to tell you what to do, but don't wait your job. Just stay the course. And maybe the next thing for you to do is to think about how that lands with you, how that resonates with you.

Because if you're listening to what I just said and there's this deep, deep feeling in the pit of your stomach that is just massively disappointed at the answer that I gave, that's probably illuminating. And that might tell you that the right answer is to not listen to what I just said. A lot of times the reason to take advice from others is not necessarily for what they're saying. saying, but rather to hear what they say and then recognize how it resonates with you. So I guess that's my final tip. My final tip is don't listen to me. Listen to yourself as you hear what I've just said. And I think that's where your answer will live. Thank you for asking that question, Cameron, and good luck and congratulations on being in such an amazing position. Our next question comes from Haley.

Hi, Paula. My name is Haley, and I'm 22 years old. I need your help in evaluating a financial decision I'm about to make. One year ago, I purchased my condo for $103,000 with 3% down and a 30-year fixed mortgage at 4.5%. When I purchased it, it wasn't in great shape. And so I've spent the year doing things like updating the floor. taking out the popcorn ceiling, renovating the bathroom, and I'm about to finish with the kitchen. Because of this and the fact that my downstairs neighbor just sold their condo for $120,000, I think I can get it reappraised for at least that value and have my private mortgage insurance dropped, which runs about $60 a month. As appraisals in the area run about $600 to $850,000, and my mortgage will allow for me to drop the PMI if the value is proven to have increased, I'm seriously considering this option. But before I do so, I wanted your thoughts on the matter,

and if there's anything I haven't thought of that might be a drawback. I'm definitely going to continue to own the property for at least three years and live in it for one. So I think over the course of that time frame, I will be able to save, the amount of the appraisal and at least break even, if not come out ahead. So what are some potential drawbacks aside from the increase in property taxes that I'm not seeing? And anything else you'd like for me to consider before deciding to proceed. Thank you so much for all that you do. And I really look forward to hearing yours and Joe's potentially thoughts on the matter. Okay, Haley, first of all, you're 22 years old and you've already bought your first condo. You are awesome.

That is one of the coolest things I've ever heard. I mean, to be 22 and a homeowner, by yourself as a young single woman, can we get a round of applause? You're a badass. You're killing it. That's super effing cool. And the level of detail that you included in your question tells me that you are so on the right track. Like you're thinking about, you're doing it right.

You're thinking about things in a thoughtful, analytical way. When I was 22, I was nowhere near where you are. today. So, yeah, that's incredible. Now, to specifically answer your question, if the appraisal, you said the appraisal is going to cost somewhere between $660 to $850, if we assume the higher end of that, we assume the appraisal costs $850, and it allows you to save a monthly payment that you're making that costs $60 per month. That means it's a 14-month payback. And since you plan on holding onto this condo for at least three years, then the cost of the appraisal is pretty much a slam-dunk case, a 14-month payback over something that you plan on holding for at least the next 36 months. Also, if you are

going to have an appraisal done, do it while you are still living in the condo for no other reason that everything just becomes a lot simpler when it's an owner-occupied primary residence. You can certainly get an appraisal done and drop the PMI when you're not living there, but just for the sake of simplicity, since you plan on being there for the next year anyway, you may as well do it while you're living there. In terms of drawbacks, I mean, the number one thing that came to my head is that the property might not appraise for $120,000, which means that you will have paid for an appraisal, but the appraisal won't come back at a high enough value that it would allow you to claim that 20% equity and drop the PMI. And that's really another way of saying

you're taking a risk. Now, certainly there are plenty of indicators that point to your condo appraising for at least $120,000. but the appraisal game can sometimes surprise you. That being said, even if you did have to get it appraised twice, let's say we'll take the higher end of the estimate. So we'll say the appraisal costs $850, which by the way sounds kind of high. I mean, I've gotten appraisals done for $400, $500. So $8.50 sounds like quite a lot. But I'll take your word for it.

We'll say that you pay $8.50 for an appraisal. The first one doesn't come back at $120 and you have to get it done twice. that's still a 28-month payoff, which means that if you hold the property for 36 months, you would just barely break even. But that kind of leads to my next question, which is, why do you want to get rid of the property after three years? I understand that after one year you want to move out, which means that for years two and three, the following two years, you would be using it as a rental property. So once you're doing that, assuming that it's a rental property that performs well, why would you want to get rid of it? because you don't have a whole lot of your own cash tied up in it. You know, it's one thing to sell a property because you want to get the equity out of it so that you can then use that money for other purposes. But you have so little of your own money tied up in this already. And you already plan on using it as a rental property for at least two years that I'm just wondering why you would want to stop that assuming that, I don't know what you would be getting for rent, but assuming that it performs well as a rental. And of course, then the longer that you hold the property, the more that paying for the appraisals make sense.

Final thing that I want to say is that you mentioned the tax implications. So taxes are determined by an assessment, not by an appraisal. Appraisals are done by private parties. Assessments are done by municipalities. And the two are not related. So your municipality is going to do an assessment on your property. And that assessment is where your taxes will be determined. The appraisal is totally irrelevant.

That's something the only your lender is going to see. So don't even worry about that. Well, I hope that answered your question. And congratulations again on buying your first property at 22. That's incredible. We'll come back to this episode after this word from our sponsors. Hey, have you heard about this company making flats from recycled plastic water bottles? Don't worry.

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Shipstation.com slash Paula. Make ship happen. Now speaking of improving your life in your 20s, that leads to our next question, which comes from Danica. Hey, Paula, this is Danica. First, I wanted to say congratulations on your 10-year anniversary for quitting your job. That is super, super awesome.

Something I wasn't sure of, and I'm sorry if you've mentioned this, before, but you left for a few years, traveled all over, and when you came back, you were able to buy property and obtain financial independence. I was just wondering if you could explain that intermediary period. How were you able to come back from traveling without working and being able to save and support yourself and ultimately acquire multiple rental properties to obtain financial freedom. Thank you very much. I appreciate your help and I can't wait to hear from you. Danica, first, thank you for congratulating me on the 10-year quidiversary. So for those of you who are listening who are not familiar with that story, I wrote a blog post about this, which I will link to in

the show notes. The show notes are available at afford anything.com slash episode 132. That's afford anything.com slash episode 132. So anyway, so I wrote a blog post about this announcing that I came up on the 10-year anniversary of quitting my job. I quit my job in April of 2008, and so I published that post in April 2018. Now, as I said in the blog post, at the time I quit my job, I was not even remotely financially independent. In fact, I had no concept of that. I didn't know that that idea existed. So at the time I quit my job, I had $25,000 saved. So I quit my job with $25K saved, Fluda Europe, and myself and Kim, camped. We did not ever pay for accommodation. So we spent six weeks in Europe, mostly sleeping in tents. Sometimes we did, there's this program called woofing. It's like worldwide workers on organic farms. So, and through that program, you can get accommodation and food in exchange for doing day labor, essentially, on farms. So we camped a whole bunch. We did a couple of woofing stints. We had a friend in Madrid who let us stay in the guest room for a while.

And then after that, I briefly flew back to the U.S. for maybe like a month, month and a half. And then Will and I together flew to Cairo, Egypt, along with our friend Laurel. And we flew there on a one-way ticket. And then we spent the rest of the trip for the next two years in countries where the dollars stretched a lot further. So, you know, we were in Egypt. We went to India, to Nepal, Thailand, Lao, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore. Singapore is expensive. And then when we did go to Australia, which is an expensive, developed country, again, we lived in our car.

We slept in a Nissan patrol for 10 months. And we drove during that time, we drove 28,000 kilometers around Australia, from Perth to Broome to Darwin to Cains, down to Sydney. Then we took the boat over to Tazzi and then back up to the mainland, went to Melbourne and then up to Uluru and then went back to Sydney, sold the car, and then came back to the U.S. And so at the time that we came back to the U.S., it was spring of 2010. So we moved to Atlanta. We needed a place to live. And so we went on Craigslist. Somebody had told me that the Midtown neighborhood in Atlanta was kind of a fun, cool neighborhood, like, good for young people. So I went on Craigslist.

I did a keyword search for Midtown. And then I sorted by price. And I found the cheapest possible place that we could rent. And that place, it cost $400 a month. that was not the cost of the total place. That was the cost of renting one bedroom in an apartment that we were sharing with three other random roommates. So there were five people living in a three bedroom apartment. And me and Will, our share of the rent was $400 per month. And that was split between the two of us. So each of us were paying $200 per month in rent per person. So we were living very, very, very cheaply because we didn't have any money. And then while I was traveling, I was still freelancing. I wanted to keep my skill sharp. I wanted to keep my connections going. So while I was traveling, I was still freelance writing occasionally. I certainly wasn't working anywhere near full time, but I would every now and again write the occasional freelance article,

just largely just so I could have up-to-date clips that I could send to editors. And actually, sorry, to take the story back a little bit, the nine to five job that I quit back in 2008, I was a newspaper reporter. And so the whole time that I was working as a news reporter, I was freelancing. And then the whole time that I was traveling, I was also freelancing. So when I came back to the U.S. in the year 2010, I realized when I tell the story it might sound like, and then I just started freelancing and I made a bunch of money and lived happily ever after. But really, the background behind that is that I had been freelancing on the side very, very part time from 2005 through 2010. Well, at the end. And I, Actually, that's not true. I don't think I started in 2005. But from 06 or 07 until 2010, I was

freelancing. So when I came to the U.S. in 2010 and decided to escalate that into something that I was doing full time, I already had many years of part-time freelancing experience with all of the incumbent knowledge and connections and confidence. I already had all of that behind me. And so it was through that that I was able to escalate my freelancing efforts into a robust full-time career. From that point forward, my story is actually fairly, in some ways, it's fairly normal in that, you know, I had a day job and I used the money from that day job to invest. The difference was that my day job was not in the form of W-2 employment. My day job was as a full-time freelancer as a full-time self-employed person. But it was still a day job in the sense

that I was trading time for money. I relied on those freelance checks to be able to pay my $200 monthly rent and to buy vegetarian groceries at Costco, you know, and to pay the electricity bill. I needed the money for that. So I was working, but I just wasn't working under the auspices of an employer. And I think that sometimes the detail of that sort of, the detail of that story can sometimes make it hard. When I'm talking about financial independence, a lot of people use the date at which you quit your full-time job as a proxy for the date at which you received financial independence or gained financial independence. And that was not my story. I quit my job and then went and traveled and then came back and escalated the freelancing that I was already

doing into something that became full-time. And then at that point, I was analogous to any other full-time worker who was investing the proceeds of what that full-time worker made. So does that make sense? I hope I'm explaining this in a way that flows because the narrative arc of this story is not super clean. But I guess the key takeaway is I made money as a self-employed freelancer. And I lived super, super cheaply. Will and I both lived very cheaply. And we invested every penny that we could possibly save and invest. We were gung-ho committed to investing. And so I guess the short answer to your question is I busted my butt becoming a self-employed person, a successful self-employed person. You know, there's a saying that among people who decide to become self-employed, that you'll work 80 hours so that you don't have to work 40.

And that is totally true. I worked around the clock. I wrote until my fingers hurt, building an online business. Because in the beginning, even when we bought our first rental property, I still didn't. really have a concept of financial independence. That wasn't my goal. My goal was simply to always be self-employed. I never wanted to go back to working for somebody else. And so initially, the reason that I was working so hard is because I wanted to build a laptop-based location independent business that I could run from anywhere so that if I ever

wanted to go spend a month in Bali or hang out in Thailand or go back to Australia and live in my Nissan again, I would be able to do so. And so that was my goal. And then I just started investing in rental properties on the side just as a way of diversifying my income streams. When we started investing in rental properties, we didn't have an idea that that would lead to FI. We were just trying to create multiple streams of income as a safeguard or as a security net against needing to work for somebody else. And with that first property specifically, we were also just trying to get our own housing costs down to zero. Will and I combined were paying $400 a month in rent. And so we thought, hey, if we buy a triplex and move our roommates into it with us and then

also rent out the other units, we can get our own housing costs down to zero. And by doing so, we'll save this $400 per month expense. So right now, when I tell this story with the benefit of hindsight, it can sometimes come off sounding as though, oh, we had this grand, plan all along. We absolutely did not have a grand plan, not even remotely. The extent of our ambition was to get rid of our $400 rent payment. That was as big as we were thinking. So we moved into the Triplex, and then it was a year later that I finally worked up both the savings and the courage to buy the next property. And then once you buy two properties, then it becomes addictive. You know, And then slowly over time we started building more and more properties.

And it was only after we were already down that path that we realized, hey, if we get enough of these and if we can renovate these so that they can fetch higher rents, we can reach financial independence. Like that wasn't actually a goal. It was just something that sort of happened along the way. So, Danica, I hope that story made sense. I do struggle sometimes in like trying to figure out how to tell the story because the narrative arc is not clean and because our intentions were never to reach financial independence. Our intentions were just to not be employed and we were willing to do whatever it took to not be employed. And that makes it a much more complicated story than say somebody like Mr. Money Mustache or somebody like Brandon the Mad Scientist who has this very clean narrative of, I was a W-2 employee with a job, and I put all of my money in index funds, and eventually those index funds grew to the point where I could quit my job.

Like, that's a clean and simple narrative, and ours is not. In the show notes, I will link to the About page on my blog, and maybe that will help answer some questions. If you haven't read it yet, I think that might clear some things up. So thank you for asking that question. I hope it was helpful. And again, you can reach the show notes at afford anything.com slash episode. 132. All right, well, that is our bonus episode. Thank you so much for hanging out with me on this first Friday of the month and the first bonus episode that we're doing in 2018.

Coming up on future episodes, next week we have an Ask Paula and Joe, where my buddy, Joe, Sal Siahy and I answer more questions that come from you. So tune in on Monday for that episode. And then the following week, we have an interview with Shane Snow. He's one of my favorite writers. And an extremely insightful thinker. We talk about how people are able to hack the ladder and make incredible career moves in seemingly short periods of time. What is the wisdom behind that? What's the secret sauce? So we talk about that and we also talk about what it takes to create an amazing team.

Shane is a sharp thinker who is able to see situations with a level of nuance that many people can't. So I am very excited to share that interview with you. He and I recorded it face-to-face in New York. and it was one of my favorite interviews that I've done. Also, I want to give a big shout out to one of our listeners, a listener named Jessica, who called in with a question in episode 102 and now has a success story that she wants to share. I'll let her tell it in her own words.

Take it away, Jessica. Hi, Paula. My name is Jessica. You answered one of my questions in episode 102, and I'm just calling with an update. So my question was, what to do with the proceeds from the sale of my house? My husband and I anticipated making about $80,000 profit from the house, which we got. And I mentioned that we were relocating to Colorado where real estate was more expensive

and that we had an interest in early retirement, financial independence. So my question was how to invest that money so that we could move towards those goals. So here's what we did. When we purchased our home in Colorado, we found one that had great Airbnb potential because it had a full finished walkout basement. So we are taking some of the money that we made from the house, sale, and renovating that space. So hopefully we have, by the end of the year, we will be ready to start accepting guests. And I've conservatively calculated that we'll make about $500 a month profit from that. And then we also took some of the money to put a 25% down payment on our very first rental property. It's a duplex in the Indianapolis area.

And we're really excited about that because we have had an interest in real estate for a very long time. And then with the rest of the money, we have a very healthy emergency fund personally set aside and then we've also set a separate fund aside as an emergency fund for the rental property. And then if all goes well with the rental property and we really like it, we think we would be ready for another rental property in the next 12 months or so. So it's a very exciting position to be in. We're really excited about all that has transpired. I just wanted to say thank you for all the resources that you make available through your blog and podcast. I've been nervous to take the leap into real estate and I have gotten a lot of confidence through hearing your story and getting the

benefit from all the resources that you make available. So thank you so much for all that you do. You are such a gift to the financial blogging podcast space and I figured that if you're anything like me, you would be curious about how some of the questions that are asked, how they end up turning out. So I was just calling in to say thank you and to give you that update. Jessica, thank you so much for that update and that success story. Anyone else, if you have a success story that you want to share with this community, please head to Afford Anything.com slash voicemail and leave your success story. Whether you paid off debt or bought your first rental property or maxed out your retirement accounts for the first time or reached financial independence,

whatever it is that you've done, big or small, share that story with us at Affordanithing.com slash voicemail. Also, if you have questions, now that we're doing these bonus episodes every month, we have additional capacity to answer more questions. So if you've got a question, please call in and let us know. If you enjoyed today's episode, please do three things. Number one, most importantly, tell a friend. Number two, subscribe to this show in your favorite podcast player, whether you use Apple, Stitcher, Overcast, Spotify, whatever it is that you use. And number three, head to afford anything.com slash iTunes. that link will redirect you to a page on Apple's website where you can leave a review. And these reviews are incredibly helpful for allowing us to interview better guests, expand our reach, grow this community. So a huge thank you to everyone who has left a review so far. We have more than 500 ratings. That's incredible. So a big thank you to everybody who has done so. And if you haven't yet, please head to Afford Anything.com slash iTunes, where you can leave a review and subscribe to the show.

Thanks so much for tuning in to our first Friday bonus episode. My name is Paula Pant. I'm the host of the Afford Anything podcast, and I will catch you on Monday for our regular weekly show.