Afford Anything - Don’t Feel Guilty - Buy a Coke Zero and Pay Someone to Mow Your Lawn

Episode Date: January 28, 2016

#2: Once again, Paula and J. Money see things differently. J. Money preaches budgeting, Paula practices the “anti-budget”. J. Money examines every expense to find savings. A couple years ago he switched phone providers and saves $100 a month, $20 a month on insurance and $60 on cable. Paula recommends saving at least 20 percent of your income first, then go wild with the rest; “Don’t feel guilty about spending money on Coke Zero or turtle food” Who is right? To leave a comment or contact the hosts, visit https://affordanything.com/episode2 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, I guess you can start. Okay, well, I'm already recording. Well, do your one, two, three thing or something. Okay, three, two, one, go. Welcome to the Paula and Jay Money Show, a real and uncensored show about growing wealth and financial freedom. Your host, Paula Pant, is a fun-loving globe charter who lives on the West Coast, focuses on real estate investing, and runs the blog at Affordainthing.com.

Host Jay Money is a husband and father of two who lives on the East Coast, focuses on saving money and runs the blog Budgets Are Sexy.com. While they may have wildly different approaches to building wealth, they both have your financial independence in mind. Which one most resonates with you? Find out. As you listen to the Money Show, here are your host, Paula Pitt and Jay Money. What up, Jay Money?

What's going on, Paula P? How's it going over there? It's going well. I got some nice jug of water and I'm feeling healthy I'm feeling excited to talk about money. Hey, wondering why the sound quality kind of sucks? It's because we don't really know what we're doing, at least not yet. So if the sound quality bothers you, just skip ahead to episode six where we figure it out.

But if it doesn't bother you, stick around. We got some good stuff. I'm working on a cherry Coke zero. Oh, wow. Yeah, I started this thing where I have like this big jug of water and it has like exactly eight ounces, or eight ounces, eight cups of water. I guess whatever like you need to be healthy. Like, 84 ounces or whatever? Yeah. Yeah.

It's like this big, huge tonking mug thing. But it's awesome. I just fill it up in the beginning of the day. And then when it's done, I've completed it. It's like perfect for like ADD stuff. Actually, you know what? I have a friend who like in order to kind of fuel, like in order to cope with her ADD and like let herself kind of walk around.

But without letting herself get too distracted, she would just constantly drink water at her desk. and so naturally she would have to go pee a lot. Yeah. Oh, yep. That's the downfall to all that drinking water. But she said that was actually really helpful because like getting up to go pee so often, like gave her that break. So it kind of like, you know, she could get some energy out.

She could get up. She could walk around. You know, but she had like a legitimate reason to take a break rather than just like going for some random distraction. Right, right. Well, that's the thing about like not. that I condone smoking or I'm a smoker, but that's why I loved about smokers is that they always like, oh, I have to go smoke and then they go have like a social time outside. And I'm like, that is awesome. I wish I smoked just to go like outside with people that I like, you know?

I loved it. And like sometimes I would go and just stay in there, but then I have all that smoke like in my face. Exactly. Exactly. I always felt the same way. I was like, that's cool. It's like a little club. I want to be part of the club. And yeah. And then I'd go and I just, because I don't smoke, I'd go and I'd just stand there. But like, if you're a non-smoker, then secondhand smoke is just extra disgusting. Yeah. And you know what?

There's like a double standard because I've said when like my friends would go on like a smoke break. I'd be like, awesome. I'm going to go to the bar and get a beer. And guess who gets in trouble? Me, the guy that's going to go out and smoke, you know? I'm just going to go pick up some crack. Yeah, yeah.

That's right. Hey, it's the method of choice, right? Oh, gosh. Well, anyways, back to talking about money, I guess. Yes, we should. So today, like, Paul and I were talking and there's this whole, like, I guess it's kind of like a debate, like what's more important to do with your money? Like, save, save, save a lot or earn, earn, earn, like a butt ton of money, right?

Like, those are really the only two ways you grow wealth. Either you save and you invest it or you make a ton of money, right? Those are the two ways. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it's all about earning and saving, you know. Yeah, it's very simple. now how you do it and what's better and what you like more and how easy and how hard that's like the tough questions and when we were talking i realized that that paula and i are pretty you know i think we started off on the same page we were both into like we thought at least me i thought like it was

all about earning as much as you can um and then after reading getting into like early retirement kind of stuff on realizing expenses are really big and then paula you're on the side of more income Yeah, so I have the opposite experience as you. When I was younger, I thought that the name of the game was all about savings. And so when I started my journey with money, I was really into the saving side of the equation. And the more I learn about money and the more experience I have, the more I'm like, oh, no, earnings where it's at. Yeah. So we have completely the opposite experiences where you were like, you started with earnings and then moved over into savings and I did the opposite.

it. Yeah, because for me, like, when you're getting a job and you're and you're hustling, like the point is to make money, right? Like, that's why you go to work and that's why you work so hard is to earn money. So that's like, I just thought it was all earning all the time, right? And then it's like, well, if you want to get that car, right, grown up or you want to get that, you know, stupid $400,000 house that you bought on a whim, you know, you need money, right? And so that's what I would do. And then, I think it's only been about, you know, mustache and mad fientists and a lot of these blogs that are, you know, would be considered extreme. But they, I mean, they're in savings rates too and all that kind of stuff, but it was really focused on your expenses.

And what I, and I think that's like where it clicked was when it was pretty much like, hey, the less you need to live, you know, the less you need to make, you know. And it's crazy. Like it's so simple. Like if you only need to spend $1,000 a month, right? You don't need a $100,000 job, right? You might be a $20,000 job and you can live your life, right? which is really empowering, you know, but if you have like $5,000 or $10,000 a month expenses, you need a ton of money just to break even, which is really stressful to me. So that's kind of like where my mind started shifting. I was like, well, how low can I get my expenses, you know?

And it turns out it's a lot hard. I think it's really hard to cut back. I feel like it's easier to earn income, but it's, you know, it's a tradeoff. But what about you? Well, so wait, tell me about the evolution of baby J. Money and how he grew up into Mr. Grown-up J. Money. Because, like, I'm assuming that when you were in college, like, you probably had to live pretty cheap, right? Yeah, yeah.

How did you deal with that at that time? Because for me, that was when I was like, oh, it's all about savings. So tell me about you. Yeah, that's a good, tricky question because, yeah, in college, I had no money. Fortunately, I didn't take out any loans. My parents, like, their mission was to pay for my college. And so I'm going to do the same thing for my kids. And, you know, very, very obviously blessed and fortunate for that.

But, you know, growing up, it's like, well, that's cool. Like, I didn't have any notion about money or debt or anything. But so when I got to college, all my friends were like partying and I wanted to party and I have fun and I wanted to go do all these things. And so the rule was with my parents like, look, we're paying your education. Anything else you want to do? Like, it's up to you. Right. And I said, all right.

Well, that sounds like a fair, you know, fair trade. But I didn't have no money. You know, so I thought, well, the only way I could get money is to work. So that started like my, like, I need income to then support this lifestyle that I wanted. right and I wasn't living crazy but like even you know if I wanted to buy beer or if I wanted to go to the movies you know any of that stuff it all costs money that I didn't have so I hustled you know I worked at the bookstore I started working for the school paper I was the photographer and I started just trying to make enough so that I could have fun right and so by the end of the school year I'd run out of money

and the summer would come and I thought well if I want to have fun again next year then I have to go and earn a ton over the summer that's going to last me through the whole year so that's So I'd earn it and then I'd spend it all. Earn it and spend it all. So I wasn't into savings. My mindset was I need income to have this cool lifestyle. Right. And then I got in the real world that only escalated, right?

Oh, like now I want my own place and now I want my own car. I need more money. All right. Now I need to get a different job than, you know, a part-time thing on the side. So that happened all the way up until I was 25. And when I, you know, when I bought the house, when I shouldn't have no money down, right? I was always breaking even all the time. until I started like, okay, like I need to do something and I kind of shocked myself by doing like a no spend month for 30 or for 40 days for Lent because I'm Catholic.

I gave up spending to see what would happen. And that like totally transformed my money in general point. I was just spending what I earned. And then I'm like, oh, let's, you know, I realized you can make money from blogging and online. And I said, oh, let's amplify that. So that's all I did. And I became like a workaholic. like I'd work 20 hours a day, even though it was kind of fun stuff.

But I would just earn money and earn money. And then I'd bank and I'd save it, of course. And then I wanted to go self-employed and all that kind of stuff. But really, like, my whole life was about earning money until I stumbled across the whole early retirement stuff. And the idea, again, that you can, your life doesn't cost much to live. Like, your lifestyle is low and you're happy. You don't need millions and billions of dollars to live that lifestyle. Right.

So I started focusing on expenses. And I don't, you know, obviously I love both sides of the equation. But right now I'm kind of gung-ho, cut down your expenses, cut it down, cut it down, and see how low you can go and still maintain, you know, the awesome quality of life that you want. Wow. I have completely the opposite experience, Jaymoney. Surprise, surprise. We should start a podcast together.

But I can see where you're coming from because when you describe it like that, it completely makes sense. Like, you know, when you describe it like that, it's like, okay, well, this is what I want to do. It's going to cost money to do it. So, yeah, I can see where how you would have started with the like, let's earn so that we can spend. Right. Yeah. I learned a hard way. So what's your evolution? How did you, why are you so gung-ho on income? I mean, obviously you're good at saving and investing because you can quit working for the rest of your life and still be happy, right? Yeah. But because your expenses are low too, right? Or am I wrong in that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but so my expenses feel a lot

higher relative to what they were when I was younger. Because when I was younger, they were so, so insanely low. And so I'm very happy that my lifestyle has inflated. It's like probably allowing my lifestyle to inflate is one of the best decisions that I've ever made. I think because I started at a rate that was unsustainably cheap. So my kind of evolution was that in college, well, I mean, even starting in high school, I was working these crappy jobs, like my first job was working the drive-thru at McDonald's, which just sucks. Like, it just, I'm sorry, it's just a sucky job. And so I never wanted to spend money because every $5 was an hour of standing at the

drive-thru. Wow. And so I was like, if something costs $10, I'd be like, well, that's two hours of, like, working at the drive-thru. I don't want to spend this $10. Yeah, that's a really good calculation for anyone to do. That's perfect. I love that.

And so as a result, from day one, from the time I was 15, I never really wanted to spend that much money. And then in college, I had to live on a tight budget. My parents covered tuition, so that was taken care of. But I had to pay for all of my living expenses. So my rent, my groceries, like all of that came out of pocket. And so I was, when I started out, my freshman year, I made $6.45 an hour. And so at that point, like, I was working a lot and just trying to, like, get by. And that first year, I was living in the dorms so I could roll that in with when I paid the universe.

Right. Wait, how long ago is this, by the way? How many years ago? This was 2001 that I started college. Okay, so 13, 14 years ago. Okay. So, yeah, 2001, I start college. That first year, I'm making $6.45 an hour. And second semester of my sophomore year was when I moved off campus. And initially, I didn't have the money to make rent. So I started like staying, just crashing at friends' houses, you know, and just staying on, like, different people's couches for maybe like two weeks, three weeks at a stretch.

Quite literally just couch hopping because I could not imagine having, like, you need like $400. If your rent is like $400 a month, you need $400 to make the security deposit and then another $400 for the first month's rent. And I was like, how do people get that kind of money, you know? Yeah, especially when making six bucks an hour. That's hard. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So those years were just really tough. And then junior year of college, I got this amazing job that paid $13 an hour.

Nice. Yeah. That's bad ass. That was when my life changed, you know? And then I worked 20 hours a week at $13 an hour. So I was making about $1,000 a month. And I was like, this is badass. I can completely support myself.

Like at $1,000 a month, I could pay rent. So I rented a place that was $400. My share of it was $400 a month. And I was living with three or four other roommates. That's awesome. So my bedroom portion was $400 a month. And then, you know, there was like, I paid for one-fourth of the utilities and $200 bucks a month in groceries and about $50 a month for my cell phone.

And like, I could make it work at $1,000 a month. And that was when I was like, holy moly, earning more is the way to go. like that jump from making six bucks an hour to making 13 an hour, that was the difference between sleeping on people's couches versus like actually renting my own room. Right. And you have all that stability too. Like a thousand bucks gives you so many options. Yeah. So the stability is what you really like.

Now, interestingly enough, you had all this extra money because you're renting and cutting down expenses. Yeah, yeah. So then I graduated from college and then my, I took an interesting. level job making $21,000 a year. So my income jumped from effectively $12,000 a year, you know, like $1,000 a month. I was working full time in the summer, so I was making a little bit more than that. But, you know, basically my income didn't quite double, but it significantly shot up. And that was just another, like, huge sigh of relief, because at that point, I could rent something a little bit nicer, so I rented a place that cost $550 a month instead of $400.

and I bought a car that cost $400. Oh, my God. It was great. The car was older than me. It didn't have a seatbelt. The fibers on the seatbelt had completely worn through. Oh, my gosh. But yeah, I mean, that was just amazing because to take that leap from earning a grand a month to earning just shy of two grand a month.

I mean, again, it was like just the power of earning more was so surreal. I could still inflate my lifestyle a little bit, you know, get like, a slightly higher rent. I could buy a car instead of, you know, that I could use for like any time. Yeah, I would still walk and bike a lot. But, you know, like, for example, when I had to go to the laundromat, it was such a pain in the butt to take all of my laundry to the laundromat in a giant backpack that I was carrying on my back. You know, and now I could just put my laundry in the trunk of my car and, like, drive to the laundromat. You know, and so that, like, made my life so much easier being able to have that lifestyle inflation. That's awesome. So yeah, so it was really cool. And then I just kind of keep, see, like as I've gotten older, that's just kept happening more and more. So now I make six figures a year.

And it's pretty awesome, to be frank. It's pretty sweet. You know, because now I can easily save half of my income without feeling deprived. Like before, when I was making 21 grand a year, there was really no way for me to save half my income. And if I were to have tried to do that, I would have, you know... Your lifestyle would be different. Yeah, I would have probably had to go back. I certainly would still be living with a bunch of roommates, and I wouldn't be able to afford to have a cat or a dog, and wouldn't be able to have my own washer and dryer. I'd still be using the laundromat.

And, you know, like, all of that would have to happen for me to save half my income at a low salary. But once you're making six figures, you can see... save half your income and not even notice it. It's not even a thing because now I live in for the first time. This is actually the first time in my life. I'm 31. This is the first time in my life when I moved to Las Vegas about two months ago that I'm ever living without roommates. And I'm like, this is incredible. That's all I was going to say. So you obviously love income, but the perfect world, which you're doing is you're not only cutting down expenses and you're doing income. You're doing both of them pretty damn well so that you have like super efficiency, you know, which is like

the perfect world, right? Like that's all I was going to bring up. You last, you know, a couple months ago when you were talking you had roommates, right? You didn't need roommates. You don't, you can go buy a mansion if you want to, you know, if you wanted to spend your money that way. But you kept your lifestyle, your inflation didn't go that high comparatively to your money, which is great.

Yeah. I mean, that's like ideally where you want to be. I mean, what I've started doing is practicing this thing that I call the anti-budget. That's basically where I pull my savings off the top first and then spend whatever's left over. What I tell my readers is just pick a percentage that you want to save. And I recommend it's at least 20%. But you can go up from there if you want. So decide that you're going to save 20% or 30% or 40% or whatever.

Just pull that off the top right at the beginning. And then whatever money is left over, go wild with it. Do whatever you want. Don't feel guilty about like, am I spending too much money on Coke Zero versus, you know, turtle food versus what, you know, like, don't like drive yourself nuts making these crazy line-itemed budgets. Just yank your savings off the top and go nuts with the rest. And so what I've done is I've chosen a 50% savings rate and I just yank that off the top.

And then whatever is left over, I just spend freely without even thinking about it. Yeah. And so everything you're saying makes sense. Yeah. Like that's ideal. that the big differentiating, I guess, like the only way you can save 50% right away is because your expenses are low, right? And for you, right, like you're not married, you don't have kids.

I know Vegas. I don't know if it's expensive, like depending on where you live. All these like variables for me, like my lifestyle costs me like 80 grand, you know, after taxes a year because I have kids, because I've chosen things because, you know, my wife won't let me choose other options. Right? There's like, it's fine. That's life.

And, you know, in marriage and stuff, you got to negotiate and all that stuff, or compromise, I guess. But, like, if I were to right now, like, oh, I'm going to pick 20% or 50% and I just did that. And then I tried to live off the rest. Bills would be bouncing and the shit would have hit the fan. So the reason you can do it was two is one, your expenses, right, or lower because you've chosen, right? And you're smart. But also, what you bring in compared to your expenses, like there's a business. big gap there. Right. Right. So normal people, let's say everyone has like a like some gap that even

if they don't think they do, but maybe it's like only 5% right. Everyone splurges on stuff. I splurge all the time whether I know it or not, you know, coffee, whatever. So everyone has this gap. But for you like your gap is so big because of your lifestyle choices and the way that you're, you're strategic about it all. So a normal person, like if you check anyone off the street right now and say, oh, pick a amount you want to say, try and just put 20% aside right now. are they can't do it. I think you have to have the expenses down first, or at least somewhat, or no, like, all right, well, if I, like, spend a thousand bucks parting a month, I'm probably going to be able to spend, like, 400 this month. Wow. Right. That's a big difference, too,

depending on how you live. Yeah. Um, you know, but if you're already close to paycheck to paycheck, right, I think that's where the expenses you have to do first and then the income stuff. But, you know, obviously it goes both ways. It's funny because I think of it, I sort of think of it as the opposite. I think that the only reason that I can save 50% is because I'm making so much. Because if I were making 21,000 a year working full time, I couldn't save 50% of that, you know, but making 100,000 a year, I could. Yeah, that's true too. Damn you.

Well, I guess, like, well, and I think the differences, too, is, like, you and me, like, if someone gave us a million dollars right now, like, we're not going to go blow it on anything because like we already have like we're pretty good with comfortable with how we spend our money like even though like i talk about budgeting every now and then and budgets in my blog name i don't really budget anymore because i already know everything like it's happening for the most part right and i'm okay with spending a little more like that's worth that's better to me than you know if i spend like 300 more this month that's okay with me if i don't have to track every penny every day right um so you and i like we already kind of know how our spending is so so you know but i'm just thinking as like i like

like a person that just came to like our podcast or our blog today and they're like, oh, I want to be better with my money. And they go and chop off 20% right away. In a perfect world, they'd be able to save that and then they'd be forced to only live off at 80%. But unfortunately, like most people like are already paycheck to paycheck or in debt.

Like they'd have to like either hurry up and get income or they'd have to move real fast or do something really fast in order to not bounce, you know. And now, now, 20% is a big number, too. But if you do like one, like, I like your 1%, or what is it, every month, you increase 1% for a year or something, savings? Yeah, yeah. So this is a-

That's really bad at it. This was a challenge that I put out to my readers, because I was getting so many emails from readers who are like, hey, I don't feel like I can save any more money. Like, I'm already, you know, how could I possibly save more? And I was like, try this. This month, just save 1% more of whatever you currently, just save one additional. just save one additional percent of your income. One percent is like, the way to calculate that is to just think about what you make in a given month

and then just lop off two zeros. So if you make 2,000 a month, 1% is 20 bucks. If you make 3,000 a month, 1% is 30 bucks. If you make 5,000 a month, 1% is 50 bucks. So like, whatever you make, save one extra percent this month. And then next month, do it again, but like increase that. So save one additional percent every month. See, that now that I love so much because that like now compare that to the 20 percent.

Hey, save 20 percent now and live off the rest. And then compare it with one percent. Like everyone can save one percent. I don't care who you are. Yeah. We all spend money on stuff. You might not be happy or it might be hard, but you can do it. Yeah.

So the 1 percent, if you're trying to get up to 20 and let's say like all your readers are saying I don't have any money to save, I don't know how to do it, it would take them two years to figure out how to save 20%. Exactly. And then they will be saving 20%. Exactly. So that way you're talking, like it's more gradual. That I'm like 100% stamp of approval. The other one, I'll still debate you on, but I'm glad this tip came out because that one's really, really good. Thank you. I like that one a lot, you know. And I'm just trying to be like, if you can just chop off 20% or 50 right from the beginning, like then you know what you're doing. Like you don't even need to listen to our podcast or thing unless you say,

just like talking about money because like you're really good and there are people like when I coach some some money people or some um do money coaching like there's people that I've had that like hey I make a thousand a month how do I survive and there's people I've had someone that made like 20 grand a month and still had no money left over 20 grand it's just it's just so insane right but so like that person that person could chop off a lot because he knew a lot of it was fluff right and his lifestyle was so extreme that it wouldn't really make that much of a difference what was he spending on. He like had like maids and stuff. He was going on trips. Like if he was bored one weekend, you know, like, oh, I'll go to the movies or oh, I'll go and, you know, a nice dinner. Like,

he's just like, oh, I'm going to go fly to like London for the weekend. You know, like it was like, it was just fine. He had the money, right? And, and you know, you're a traveler. You like to be able to do that. For the weekend? I've actually done that. I worked at the airlines and flown to London for a weekend. That's different. That's like three. But yeah, so like, but that guy's priority. was I need to save money now and he like owned his own business. And like even like gifts like when we got to like how much he's spending gifts, it was like so much money where I was like you could still do gift giving without that way. You know. Right. And so that was a priority. Like his priority was well, I'm having fun, but I want to start saving more for like our family's future. You know. And so then

you start cutting back. Right. If you like I tell us to everyone with money like or with that just that says, oh, I want to save more or I want to retirely, I want to do all this stuff. And you said this in our first podcast. If you care enough to really want it to happen, you can make it happen. But you just have to care first, like a lot, right? Like that guy probably was spending $20 grand for years and now he cares. So now he's going to do something about it. Yeah.

But I like your challenge. And I'll tell you, so like I started that. So you have the 1% challenge. I started, you know, going back to the, you know, cutting back expenses. As soon as I heard that, I thought. And I think like something else, Mr. Money Mustache said was like, for every expense you cut like yeah you saved it for that month but then it's like every month going forward like you don't ever need it again and there was something in there that kind of like

rang true oh it just kind of like clicked with me and so the first thing I did is I still like well you know what like I have an iPhone that's like 150 bucks a month like my cable and everything's like a hundred or two hundred dollars a month like I had all these expenses that I was just so used to paying for so many years I've never I never challenged any of them you know I just did it because I had the money I wanted an iPhone right you want a smartphone right and so then when i started thinking this like how can i have like pretty much the same thing but a lot cheaper so then i started researching and i cut down like you know my iPhone i think i think it was like with verizon or AT&T i cut it went to republic wireless

i pay like 25 bucks a month now um versus 150 you know or actually we pay 50 because there's two of us so that was like a hundred bucks every month saved it's no longer an iPhone but like it's a smartphone it's droid it still does camera it still does texting, like everything you need in a phone, you know, for first world problems. Like, you got it right there. Right. And so that was like a conscious choice. So that one choice, you know, a couple hours researching and switching and all that garbage. But then every single month going forward, it was 100 bucks. It's been a year almost. Like I've already saved a thousand bucks off of that one change. Right. And if I keep with it, that's a thousand every year that that's not

going out the window. Right. So that's, that's a lot of money when you, when you, you know, do all the calculations for when you can retire and all that kind of stuff. And so that was just the cell phone bill. So then I did like car insurance. I think I saved like 20 bucks a month. Then I did cable and it was like saving $60 a month. And I was telling you earlier just now like I got it. They're like, oh, guess what?

All your discounts are expired. You're back up to 150. It's like, oh, God. Come on. I'm going to start all over again. You know, so you deal with that stuff unless you cut cable. But anyways, the point is so that to me, like once I started like, once I started like challenging, like I started challenging reoccurring bills because that was like

multiple effects instead of just like saving one time from like, no, I'm not going to go out to eat tonight and save 20 bucks. Right. Exactly. It was like continually. And more importantly, the quality of life has been relatively the same. So then I'm like, well, man, I start challenging like my stuff, right? Like I have all this stuff in my house. I like it. Some some I need. Maybe, maybe not. But I just started selling. I started finding things that I like and seeing if I can get rid of it. you know um and so i started selling stuff on craigslist and i think i've sold like over a thousand or 1500 on that like i sell like one thing a week pretty much yeah and so like this is just challenging thing whether you like savings or income you know whatever like i encourage you to just try and like

like really double think everything right like question it do i need this can i have the same thing for cheaper you know and it doesn't matter what the answer is it is just that you you question everything because then like i go to the store and i go to buy something i'm like wait a minute like it Is this going to end up being sold on Craigslist? You know, it's like my first thought. Like, am I going to end up getting rid of this thing? Right. And when you get new bills, like, it's really just like your whole, it's all like a mindset

switch that you do, you know? And because you get in that mindset, then you start saving more. And then you start, you know, when you earn more, right, you can bank more of it. So, yeah. So, I mean, obviously like both income and savings and stuff is good. But I think all of us can always, like you, me, we can always tweak so much more if we actually just took a couple seconds, you know. It doesn't have to be like forever.

Yeah, you know, and I mean, maybe that's like where I'm coming from was just I'm so habit of, like, I've never paid for my own cable. I've paid for, like I had an Airbnb unit. So I put cable in that unit just as for the benefit of the guests, the customers. But I've never, ever in my entire life, purchased cable for myself. Interesting. See? you're naturally frugal.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess it just all, it came natural to me. And I, you know, and I think, honestly, I think it all just started in college

because I had to be because I didn't have a choice. And then those habits just kind of stuck. Where it's held me back is that there are some habits that have stuck in which I spend a lot of my time trying to save money to, like, to the point where it devalues my time.

Yeah. Like, for example, when I was making 21 a year at my first entry-level job. Most of the time I would bring lunch to work, but if I'd forgotten, then instead of buying lunch, I would go to the grocery store and just walk in circles around the store and like eat the free samples. Oh, my God. Oh, Paula.

That's all well and good, but at a certain point, I have to be like, okay, I've just had an entire meal of nothing but like cubes of cheese. maybe there's a point where you have to start eating like fruits and vegetables because it's healthy, you know? Right. Well, and also like going back to the cons. So like, you know, there's like a lot of people are workaholics, right? And like, and I used to pride myself.

Like when I went full time, I was like, I'm going to work 20 hours a day. I'm going to outwork everyone. I'm a badass, you know? Like, yes, money, money, money. Come, come, come, come. Right? But I had no life. You know, I never dawned on me until like I had kids.

I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, what is going on here? right? Like I was in like some weird world. Like I'm like out in the outer sphere somewhere, you know. And so the con to that, I mean, depending on how good you are working and what your job and how much money, all that kind of stuff. But there's tradeoffs in, you know, your social life or if you volunteer or your family life, right? Like you get, it's so easy to get, especially online to get sucked into earnings or making so much money. And then you get it and you're like, I need more. You know, like it's so, money is so addictive. And I'm very like, emotional. and very like, like, I can get, it's so easy for me to get addicted to stuff. That's like I've never tried drugs.

I've never even tried a cigarette. I want to. I want to see what the fuss is about. But I'm so afraid I'm going to get addicted. Like, the one thing is I've ever tried is, like, alcohol and cigars and, like, God, give them to me, like, all day long, you know? I'd be poor, you know? And so, um, actually, that helps with kids, too. When you have kids, like, all of a sudden, you're like, oh, crap, like, I'm responsible

to someone else. Like, I can't, like, kill myself, you know? But, yeah, so there's definitely a trade-off. for sure and I think that goes to your point too like let's say you are you're maxed out with time spent right like you your max amount of time you can work at 50 hours a week yeah right so so your options are swap out those 50 hours or something that's more you know makes you happy or makes more money get a raise you know like all these options of what to do that time or start cutting back or do both at the same time you know so that way like like even if you're max out time you can still save

money and bank it from actually cutting back stuff. But I will say too, like there's a difference between save, like my cable bill or my cell phone bill thing, right? Yeah. A hundred bucks a month saved. It's only actually saved if you then do something with that money. Right. Right. Like you hear people, oh, I just saved like 50 bucks on these new pair of shoes. Well, you just spent less now that $50 went to like the earrings or something. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like so like that was my second part was when I realized, oh crap, like let me get. You go and put this somewhere so it's saved. So I started piling into just one separate savings account. And I'm very like motivated when things go up. And so I saw. And so it's been almost a year and there's

like five grand sitting there just from these little tiny moves throughout the year. Right. You know, so that's the second part. And a lot of people will say like, like, you're like mowing a lawn. This is like the thing that gets me. Like, oh, like my time is worth so much more than like paying 20 bucks to mow my lawn. So like I'm going to pay someone else to do it. And that's fine. If you don't want to do it. If you're working on a project or you need time with your family, great. But you spent the 20 bucks and unless in that same hour you didn't spend time with your family or, you know, get paid 100 bucks. Like you just lost 20 bucks. Like you didn't save anything, even though like you're not worth it, quote, right? So like a lot of people say, oh, that's not

worth my time. It very well could be. But unless you actually use that time to make the money, then like you just lost money, you know. I have the complete opposite feeling about this. total opposite feeling. Surprise, surprise. And it's exactly for that reason. It's like, the way I figure it, you have X amount of time per week that you can realistically efficiently work. Like, let's say that that's maybe 50 hours, right?

I agree with you. And so what do you do during those, you have 50 hours, you can't realistically push it to like 80 or 90 or 100 because at a certain point you hit. declining productivity. At a certain point, your brain just conks out and can't do any more effective work, and you need to go sleep or exercise or

do yoga or hang out with your family, or even just lay on your bed and stare at the ceiling. Like, you know, there is like a benefit to doing that in terms of like it's just downtime. Right. If you've got 50 hours in you, it makes the most sense to me to spend those

50 hours on in the highest and best way that you can, you know, because if you try to do everything yourself, I mean, take into its logical extreme, like, I don't mill my own cotton, you know, I don't, like, knits my own socks, I don't plant my own corn, you know, I don't, I didn't manufacture the drywall that goes into my house. Right. So, like, where does it end? So, all right, so using your example, let's say, like, you're a normal person and you spent

the 50 hours Monday through Friday, you're done. Mm-hmm. Saturday morning you wake up and like, oh, shit, I need to mow the lawn. It's so long. Right. You know, like, oh, I'm worth like $100 an hour. So let me go pay someone $20 to mow it. And let's say it takes like an hour. So where does your thing fall in line with there? Like, are you, like, you've already maxed out. Right. So then for an hour you go to the gym or you practice yoga or you hang out with

your family and just like have a really nice meal with your family. So, okay. And that, yeah, that I agree with. So that's what I'm saying. So in that hour, instead of mowing it, you did something productive. You didn't make money necessarily, but you did something that your time is better worth spent. So that 20 bucks was worth it. Yeah. You know, and I guess I'm comparing it. So I agree with you on that.

I'm saying if you like, oh, I'm not worth my money, you know, I'm whatever, too valuable or, you know, I whatever, right? You pay the 20 bucks and then you sit there watching TV for an hour or you just, you're lazy. Oh, yeah. I don't have a TV. Oh, yeah. You never going to work for any of these examples because you're not normal. You suck, Paula. But you know what?

I will defend the TV watchers of the world because I do think that there is some value to, like, if your brain just needs some downtime. And like, let's say you get off work at 7 p.m., let's say, right? And then you go on a run and make dinner. Then it's just time to, like, have a little bit of downtime. I think, like, that hour that you spend watching Game of Thrones, which, by the way, that is the one show that I watch. I don't have a TV, but I watched Game of Thrones on my laptop. Oh, gosh. Last season is crazy.

You know, like, I think that there's a lot of value in that because, like, that's, that part of that evening where you can just sort of decompress and that that allows you to be fresh for work the next day. Yes. So. See, this is why this is going to, it's hard to talk to you because you're so efficient and so, like, you know, like, I watch an hour every single night, too. Like, that's why we have a TV, you know?

But, like, I'm talking, like, average person, like, you did your work. and on the weekend, right? And I guess let me say, it'd be one thing if you had the money and you're comfortable, and you just want to veg out and pay someone to know you on, right? Like, that's totally fun. By all means, you did your part. Like, you're totally cool. Like, you're happy with it.

Yeah. But the people that's like, oh, I don't have enough money to like save or invest or pay for college or like I'm living paycheck to paycheck. Like these are the things they say, though, right? Like a lot of, not everyone, but a lot of people will say, well, I'm still going to pay for my lawn, you know, to be moat. where that's like one easy option that you could do yourself. Right.

You know? And like you're not going to miss anything, right? And like maybe like, yeah, you can look at like, oh, it's in nature, right? You can still jam out to music while you're doing it. You can still unwind. Right. It means a little more annoying, right? And let me tell you too, by the way, for the first time in my 35 years, I actually

paid someone all month to mow my lawn. So like, like, in all fairness, right? And that was it. Like, on the weekends, I have X number of hours to spend with my kids. Right? If I'm out in the lawn, you know, I'm not spending it or if I'm doing it when they're not sleeping, I'm not doing the stuff I need to keep my business afloat. Right.

Right. I'm totally okay with paying for it as long as you're consciously deciding like this I'm going to pay for and here's the reason why. Yeah. And again, if you don't care enough to save, right, then that's fine. Pay, you know, do anything you want to do. It's your life and it's your money. It's just when you're trying to like be better about it.

These are things you need to start challenging. Yeah. Well, you know, and actually I think that goes back to my like, figure out how much money you want to save, yank that off the top right at the beginning, and then whatever's left over you can do with as you will. You know, it's like if you decide that you want to save 30% of your income, you yank that off the top at the beginning, and then you've got that 70% left over,

and then you use that 70% to pay all your bills, and there's still money left over in there, then, heck, then pay somebody to mow your lawn. Yes. Now, let me ask you, why the percentage is like, I don't know, I've never done anything with percentage until like I started reading finance blogs. And it's like, you need 10% here and this percent there. And I've never like, oh, I got a paycheck. It's $2,058.

Like, I need to put 8% here, 3%. Like, no one does that. Now, I know like in 401K stuff for automation, right, with technology, you can set it. So that makes sense. Yeah. But like, what about if I'm like, I want to save like, like I want to go, I don't know. I guess I can say like I want to go on vacation at the end of the year and I need 12 grand. Like, all right, well, I need $1,000 a month.

You know, right. So, so are you like, is that okay with you? If I see, I want to set aside a thousand bucks and then spend the rest, yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean, part of it is like, so when you're talking to a big audience, you know, like all the people who are listening to this, for some people. We have a lot of people on our second episode ever. So the two of you who are listening to this. I'm all like that. You know, so part of it is like you don't want to give hard. numbers because some people, a thousand a month is all they make, you know? And then some people

like make 20,000 a month. So sometimes it's nice to talk in percentages because, you know, that way what you're talking about applies to everybody who's listening. Yeah. The other thing, though, that I will say from my own personal life, and this is like the height of laziness, but this is actually how I budget. So Will and I both, you know, we're a two-income couple, right? And so we actually, figured out, and this is so incredibly lazy, but it's completely, but it works, it's totally efficient. We figured out whichever one of us is earning more, that person is necessarily making more than 50% of the combined income, right? Okay. So like, if our combined income is 100%,

whichever one of us is making more is making more than 50%. Okay. So if we just save the entirety of the income of whichever person is making more, then we will naturally be saving more than 50%. Yes, I like that. Again, perfect world. Yes, I love it. And then we can just whoever, whichever person is earning less, we just like completely just live on and enjoy that money, like without even thinking about it, you know, just use that money to pay for everything, all the bills and the everything. And so that's actually a big part of why I talk in percentages is because at a certain point, I committed to saving half. And then I was like, what is the easiest possible, like, logistically or mathematically, what is the easiest possible way to save half? Right.

I know we'll save the entirety of whoever's earning more. Yeah. And that is like, again, this like super efficient poll over here, like, like, and this is why you are right. It's totally lazy, though. It's like, I can't even bother calculate. half. I'm just, you know. It's so easy to do. I mean, I really like that tip. And again, like, you can't just tell every couple, hey, save one right away, but, but it's something to work towards, right? And this is great because you're telling us how you can, you know, how you're,

you know, quote, like, financially free as a, you know, a 31 year old, right? Like, you do these things would sound extreme. Like, again, if I'm like a first time person on this episode, don't know anything about money and you're saying one couple of banks 100% and other and we live off of, that's amazing, you know? Like, that is like, that is like the dream. And then you get all the questions, how's that possible? Blah, blah, blah. And then you have to go back through your history, right? Like, all that stuff. Whatever motivates you to actually take action, like, pick that route. If it's the lazy Paula route, but it's like a huge amount of money, great, do it. If it's like the goal, attach your goal route or you're like an emotional person,

right, and not go with numbers, go that route. But either way, yeah, hell yeah, if you can live off of one income of a two-person household, all that is like, that's just incredible, right? And it doesn't affect everyone. Kids change things. If you're single, changes things. So if you were single, you would just do 50% because it's easier, right? Yeah, I mean, I guess if you, like, think about our lives, I guess it sounds frugal.

Like, like I said, like, Will is 35, I'm 31, and up until about a month or two ago, we were living with roommates. Right. So that's also extreme, yeah. It's unusual. Like, on my, on afford anything, I talk a lot about the concept of like rebellion, like rebelling against society

and being a, and what I really mean by that is like be okay with doing shit that's weird you know be okay with doing stuff that other people think is really unusual and other people are like dude you're 35 years old why do you still live with roommates like yeah you know i got that the other day dude you have a mohawk and you're growing a beard out and you're you're dressed like like horrible you know like how do you do for a living how are you able to do that yeah you know you're right though because the more you are you and especially if you can get away with it more, you know, it doesn't like affect like job stuff and whatever, you know, like you're going to be a happy person, happier person down, down inside, you know.

And I think it does get, make you more comfortable with taking a little bit risk, even though, like, it's against the grain. Actually, a perfect example is that whole cluster F on the stock market with China and all that stuff. You know, like it went down like a thousand point. The market went down a thousand points in like the first five minutes or whatever. And everyone, I mean, now granted, like, we don't know the ages and their things, but let's just assume it's like an average age of people that are invested in the market. Like, everyone's selling and going safe. A year from now, they're going to be like, oh, what's the secret to, like, you're becoming

rich? It's doing the opposite of what you just did. Everything's cheap. Buy, by, buy. It's totally against the grain for the most part because everyone's freaked out. And if you have, like, again, that's why I say time. Like, if you have 20, 30, 40 years, it doesn't even matter. Like, you should be excited when that happens.

Yeah. But if you're, like, retired and now all your savings went down the hole, then, you know, that's obviously a different story. Right. But I mean, but if you're already retired, then you should be mostly allocated towards safer investments anyway. Ah, touchy. So you're right. So it is all idiots in the market then. Yeah, that's funny. But yeah, you're right. It is going to get, and that's the thing with money too, right? Because A, that's why I love blogging. And again, going back to like, why I post my net worth and have real numbers because it's a real person's story. Some things I do, you'll agree with some. You won't, right? We'll debate like we're doing now.

you know, but it's a real story and people in the real world, for the most part, don't talk about it, right? Like, we'll talk about, like, the girls we had sex with. We'll talk about, like, how wasted we are. We'll talk about all this stuff, but, like, not the, like, super important stuff. You know, it's crazy. And then, like, especially if you're friends, right, like, and I know it gets weird and especially, like, know people's salaries, right? I know that it gets weird for sure. Yeah. You know, but just think of, like, how much better financially or happy it would be if you and like your close friends were helping each other out or staying motivated, right? Yeah.

Like if, you know, because that's the thing right. Most people will say like, oh, like we're going out, you know, to dinner and people don't say, oh, I'm going to, I don't want to go. I want to hang out with you, but I want to save money. Right. Like, I have a goal to like retire early. Right. No, people don't do that.

They'll just say no and then offend the other person or they'll just say, oh, I don't want to offend them and I'll just go and suck it up. Right. You know, and it's horrible. It sucks. Yeah, it totally does. And because you know what? I was noticing this.

when I was hanging out with a couple of friends in Switzerland recently, it was like there were myself and three other girls. And I liked openly talk about money and like give numbers. I mean, you've heard me on this podcast. I'm open and public with it. There are a few numbers I won't give, but everything else I just spill. Right. And it's funny when I'm around people who are not bloggers,

like not finance bloggers or not in this world, because I have to remind myself that to the average, person that's really weird. And that's kind of unusual. And so when I was around them, I would start to openly state a number. And then I would kind of pause and be like, oh, okay, so just so you know, I'm really public about this. I write this on my blog. And, you know, I would give that. I'm going to blog about you. And I would give that disclaimer before like sharing the actual number just to make them feel more comfortable. I think it sort of relieved them of any responsibility of having to reciprocate with their own numbers because it was just me saying,

by the way, I'm sharing this with you because I've also shared it with the general public. Right. Yeah, that's a good way to do it. Well, I think, too, if you talk about, and I don't know if you do this with them, like, if you talk about, like, the reasons why you can't do stuff or like what the goals are, you know, like people are generally supportive. Like, going back to your challenge, right? Yeah. If you're like, oh, I can't go out to eat now because I'm doing this 1% challenge and every month I up it by 1% and I'm trying to win. Right? Right? people are like, oh, like, oh, yeah, okay, well, what's that about? Rather than, like, no, I can't do that.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think to a degree, the more you can talk about money with someone that you love and trust, right? Not like a random stranger or maybe if that makes you comfortable, I don't know. But I think like surrounding yourself with money, you know, people. It's like, you know, when you grow up and my mom's always like, don't hang out with those people, they're like the troublemakers, right? Odds are, like now as a parent, I know, like, yeah, I don't want to, I should not be with those people

because I'm going to go down the wrong track. And, like, obviously, parents know, but as a kid, you don't care, and you just want to do what's cool or what's fun. But, yeah, so whoever you surround yourself, if you don't know anyone, read blogs, read, like, there's millions of blogs, and you might not relate to Paula's story or my story, but there will be someone's story that you're like, boom, that's it. And then you just learn and just immerse yourself into this stuff.

I mean, for the most part, money is a very simple concept, you know, but, like, once, like, real life, you know, mixes with it, It gets weird and emotional. And, you know, so like, so once you figure it out, you're good. You just got to get to that level. Yeah. Man, that was not a talk. Wow.

Yeah. We've been on a role, Jay, Money. Dude, I could talk about money or battle you. Let's find more battles to battle each other. Well, what do you think? So you wrap it up there, Paul P? Probably. I'm sure that some of the people, the two people listening probably have to go

to work or something, you know, like have to get out of the car. Productive. Yeah, yeah. I know. Like, people who listen to podcasts while commuting are extremely productive. I want something to like listen to this podcast while they're mowing your lawn. So they can listen to them. Be productive and save money.

Do you want to let you want to go over some like pointer? Well, obviously the main pointer is in a perfect world, you save money and you earn more. Right. Right. So on Afford Anything, I refer to that as mind the gap. Okay. It's that gap between what you earn and what you spend. Your job is to make that gap as big as possible.

And the only two ways to do that are to earn more and spend less. Do both, but like at the end of the day, it all comes down to that gap. That gap is where it's at. And then invest that gap. Yes, yeah, good. Create the gap and then invest the gap. I like that. And start small too.

Start like 1%, or try both. right, start 1% saving and then try and like, you know, go to their lawn and say I'll mow your lawn for 20 bucks and earn more. Make that your challenge for the week. Save 1% and go earn 20 bucks, you know? And then the one that you like more, just do more of that. It doesn't matter which one is growing your net worth. You know, I've actually been thinking about how to write it because I'm like, yeah, you can, that's like the other side of the 1% challenge, right? You could challenge yourself to save an extra 1% of your income per month. You could also change. challenge yourself to increase your income by 1% a month. If you make $3,000 a month,

can you make an extra $30 next month? Same result. And then can you make an extra $60 the following month? What would happen if you were to do both? You'd really be moving. But I will say that for the income producing, there's no limit to how much you can make, but there is a limit on how much at least you're willing to cut back on. So you do get a point there for like, if you figure out how to make $300 bucks in a month and then $600 to next month, like you're on to something, right? The more you can figure out how to make money, and especially if you're having fun, you need to stick with that and keep going, because you, like, figured it out. Yeah. As long as you like it. Every month, I save substantially more than I used to earn.

That's so crazy to think about it. Yeah, I know, isn't it? He's talking, you're awesome at the same time. Well, that's our show. Paula, let's come up with another sign-off. I didn't like our last show. Our one, two, three, goodbye. Bye. Yeah, I have that baby mode. Like, I'm trying to be. teach my kids out to say bye-bye, like all of a sudden that was apparently like the best way to end. I told you I want to actually, we should say that. Sorry, ran out of time and didn't have enough time to get to Warren Buffett on the show. Oh, yeah, I know. Jimbo lovers. Yeah, Warren

Buffett. You're listening, Warren. We're coming for you. One of these days. Yeah, I'd be interested to hear what he says. He's really good. He always comes out with the Zingers. I know. He's perfected it. So he should have a podcast. Yeah. Actually, I heard he reads like 80% end of the day. Like, he just reads and devours information. Wow. It's insane. I mean, imagine doing that 80% and then pulling the trigger, man, that's, I can't imagine, but obviously it's working. Maybe he's listening to this podcast right now. If he was one of the two people, I would and then I retire and drop the mic and I'm out of here. Like, you can't stop that. Jay Money, you already did drop the mic, remember? I did. It started. It circles. It wouldn't better to like that

Oh, gosh, crazy. All right, guys, and we'll see you next time. You just keep your money safe out there. Yeah. Take care, everyone.

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