How I Give Away 41% of My Income, with Bob Lotich
00:00You can afford anything but not everything.Every choice that you make is a trade-off against something else,and that doesn't just apply to your money.That applies to your time, your focus, your energy, your attention,to any limited resource that you need to manage.That leads to two questions.First, what's most important to you?And second, how do you make decisions accordingly?
00:30Answering those two questions is a lifetime practice,and that's what this podcast is here to explore and facilitate.My name is Paula Pant. I'm the host of the Afford Anything podcast. And today, as we head intothat post- Thanksgiving season, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, all the sales, all the commercials andthe spending and the 50% off, which still means 50% on. Is it something that you truly love? Or is itan impulse that you're going to forget about? These are the questions that come up right aroundthis time of year. Questions around consumer spending. Questions around, questions aroundthe temptation of discounts and deals, that psychological sense that we are, quote, unquote,
01:16saving money by virtue of taking out our credit cards, when in fact we're upping our consumption.And right now we're doing so in a time when a lot of people's budgets are stretched thin becauseof inflation.So in the midst of all of this, we decided that this week's episode is going to take a step back,take a breather and focus on something that matters that isn't talked about enough.Giving.Let's start with the good news.The average American is a giver.
01:46The average American donates 2.1% of their income to charity, according to data from the Giving Institute.Globally, Americans have some of the highest rates of charitable giving, both participationrates, the number of people in the population who make charitable donations every year,as well as the size of those donations.And if you want to learn more about charitable giving,we've done episodes about donor advised funds,about how to structure that.We'll link to some of those episodes in the show notes.
02:17But today, we're going to zoom in close upon one couple that did something extraordinary.They were an ordinary couple living in Nashvillenamed Bob and Linda Lodick.When they were both 31, they decided to give their age, meaning that they decided to give 31% of their income to charities or to worthwhile causes.Now, at the time, they earned a combined five-figure income.It was high five figures, but between the two of them combined, they made less than 100,000 jointly, just less, just less, but what less?They were making a joint five figures.
03:04So it wasn't like they were wealthy.It wasn't one of the situations where they had money to burn.In fact, as you're about to hear Bob discuss, it was stressful.And it created a lot of doubts around, are we going to be able to pull this off?But they did it.And they've increased their charitable giving every year since to match their age.So they are now both 41 years old.and they give away 41% of their income.
03:33This is obviously a unique, extraordinary example,but sometimes we have to look at the outliers,the extreme examples, in order to get a sense of what's possible.So as you're about to hear, at the time that they started this project,they had a mortgage on their home,they worried that giving this much away might impact their ability to pay the bills,And in the decade that has followed, that decade from age 31 to age 41, they moved to a different state.They moved from St. Louis to Nashville, which carried its own moving costs.
04:09And they had three children.And they had to fit those three children into the budget.But they've managed to maintain their commitment to giving throughout all of it.And so in today's episode, we're going to hear about how they've done it.Enjoy.Hi, Bob.Hi, Paula.And it's so good to be here.
04:31I'm so excited to talk to you again. I'm intrigued by how you were able to push past the boundaries of your generosity. A lot of people who are listening to this are comfortable giving up to a certain amount, 5% or 10%. You radically increased that. And that required adjusting both your budget as well as adjusting your mental space. Let's start with that mental space. Talk about how much you mentally had to do in order togive so much more than you previously were.I was age 31.We really felt like we were supposed to begin giving our age as a percentage of our income,which just felt insane.It really felt crazy.And I remember when this thought first popped in my head, Paul, like, I just rememberfeeling like, this is nuts.
05:18And like, I don't even know if this can work.I don't even know if we're going to be able to pay the bills.But at the same time, there was kind of this excitement of going on this adventure justto kind of see what would happen.So I remember going back and talking to Linda about it and just,feeling like she's going to think this is crazy. She's going to blow me off. She's going to say,no, there's no way we're doing that. But she was actually on board. And so we realized,okay, well, I guess we're going to do this. And there definitely was a lot of mental hurdles,
05:44maybe fears that had to be overcome. We weren't wealthy at that point by any means. This was a bigstretch for us. And I was questioning, are we going to be able to pay our bills if we do this?And kind of doing the math, I'm like, I think it's going to be close. You know, but I had a biggoal of paying off our mortgage at that point. We had paid off our other debts, but we stillwant to get our mortgage paid off. And it felt like I'm kind of laying down that, laying downthis desire to pay down the mortgage in order to be more generous, which felt, I don't know,it felt scary. The whole thing, it just felt right. And, you know, when you know that you know,I want to run with that and move in that direction. And that's what that was for us.
06:21So you deeply internally felt that giving your age as your percentage that you donate to charity,which at that time you were 31, so it's 31% of your income to charity.You deeply, like deep down, it felt that that was right.Linda was on board, your wife, she was on board, but did she have that same drive to do it?I don't know if she had the same desire instantly that I did, but I remember when we were datingand we were sitting in our cars and we would do this and just dream about being able to givemillions of dollars away.It was just this thing that we both had in our hearts and this desire that we had.
06:56And at that time, we were just dirt broke.I mean, we were both in basically minimum wage jobs and had no reason to ever believe we'd be able to give away millions of dollars.It made no sense.But it was still a desire in our hearts.And so I knew that we both had that.And so I think it was pretty easy for her to get on board with this because it's like, all right, this is a step in the direction that we want to go.This is something that was already important to us.It's like, this is just a big leap forward, maybe a little bit faster than we were anticipating.
07:23And you mentioned at that time you were 31. Are the two of you the same age? Pretty close within a few months, yeah. Okay, yeah. So it's both of your ages as a percentage. Yeah, yeah. At the time, you mentioned you'd paid off your other debts, but you still had a mortgage. You wanted to be mortgage free. How did you square that? The idea of I'm going to be in debt longer in order to increase my charitable giving. It was hard because it's giving up something that I want in order to really impact someone else'slife and make their life better. Ultimately, there was a peace in my heart that just felt like this is theright thing to do. Even though I was scared, even though it was kind of nervous, even though I felt likeI'm giving up something important to me, glad we followed that. I'm glad we followed that urge.The quote that I love, it goes like this, never suppress a generous thought. We've tried to live thatout. And as we do, it just feels like that is a better way to live life. And it's more enjoyable.It's more rich. It's more fulfilling. How much of your income were you giving prior to that?You were 31 years old. You were giving about 10%? Probably 10, maybe 11, 12%. It was a big leap.
08:28Can you give us a sense of how much you were making at that time? You don't have to give an exact number.I'm guessing together our salaries would have been probably a little bit less than 100,000 a year.And where were you living? We were living in St. Louis. We had bought a house probably a year or two earlier, kind of starter house.Did you have kids at the time? At that point, we did not have any kids yet.All right, so tell us about how you logistically started approaching this.After that, after that conversation with Lyndon, we're like, all right, let's do thiscrazy thing. Let's try this out and see what happens. And, you know, one thing that she alwayssays, I think is important. You know, we were moving in this direction, but we weren't committing
09:04to this for life. It was kind of this experiment, like, let's see what happens. You know,and let's do this for a few months. And if we can't pay the mortgage and buy groceries,it's like, all right, well, maybe we'll need to adjust and adapt. But like I said, it felt likean adventure, it felt like let's step out into this and see what happens here. Let's just explore thisidea and this approach. And so from there, that month, we set aside 31% of our income and starteddesignating it to different organizations. And then another thing that we do, I always am encouragingpeople to do because it's really helpful. We create a category in our budget called a seed category,and you can call it whatever you want. But the point is, it's money that goes into a specific category
09:42can't be used by us. Once it's in that category, it's only used for giving.And we found that to be really helpful because then when this woman on her email list emailed us and sheunexpectedly lost her husband and had two little kids and it's like, all right, we have something that we caninstantly tap into the money sitting right there ready to be given. That's a really, really fun thing.When you can have the money there ready to be given, it feels like you're not even giving your ownmoney away anymore. So that was it. Like we just started setting aside 31% and then just giving it away.Did you have to cut back in other areas?Did you have to, like, how did your lives change the day to day of your lives?
10:22Well, at that point, our business had been growing a little bit.We had enough to be able to give 31%, but it was almost all of the extra.Previously, all the extra was going to pay towards our mortgage because that was our numberone financial goal at that point.And so all of that money that was allocated, the mortgage now becomes reallocated to giving.So I don't think we had to cut back a lot.Like, I don't remember making a lot of sacrifices in terms of that.The biggest sacrifice was just choosing to lay down this desire to pay off our mortgage faster
10:48in order to be able to give more.After the first month or two of doing it, did you feel good or did you have what I'vesometimes heard referred to as givers remorse where you're like, oh, why did I do that?No, I actually don't think I've ever had givers remorse.Sure, you know, I've heard people say that as well, but we didn't.And to be honest, at the end of that year, you know, when you increase your basicallytripled our giving. At the end of that year, we're looking at tax statements. It's like, whoa,we gave a lot of money away this year. And, you know, and we had some organizations that we were
11:23giving to, like, reach out to us and, you know, with tears in their eyes. Like, you really made animpact on the mission that we have and what we're trying to do and the problem we're trying to solve.And, you know, I don't know. And that was just fun. And then not to mention, my favorite part ofall this are the little stories that we get to impact. So we had a pastor at our church where it's like,he was trying to buy a car. It's like, all right, we can just give him acouple thousand dollars now because we're moving more money is allocated towards giving and so now wecan make a dent in solving this problem in someone's life. You've experienced so many stories throughdifferent acts of generosity that again just created a really fun life where this is something that
12:01we just get to do more and more. But it happened because we began allocating more money to be givenaway. Right. And I hear in your voice the joy of giving. You just described it as a fun lifeto be able to give. And I never knew that, you know. I mean, I grew up just not knowing much aboutgenerosity or giving. And very much, I honestly kind of thought it was, I will do this if you do that for me.But if you don't do that, then I'm not going to very much this tit for tat thing that just isn't truegenerosity. That's not giving. Like giving is no strings attached. But it's come to be something thatfor Linda and I, it's one of our favorite things in life and our greatest memories are momentsof generosity, moments where we got to impact someone's life, see.
12:43the reaction on their face, see their experience. I often do my best to look, whatever, on mydeathbed, like, what is a well-lived life going to look like? And from that lens, from thatperspective of me being whatever, 80 or 90, looking back on my life, this, I'm 100% convincedare going to be, these memories are going to be the things that I'm going to be thinking aboutremembering, thankful that I participated in, so much more than whatever, the extra few thousanddollars that I added to my 401K or something.One thing that strikes me, as I hear you talk about some of the people whom you've given to,is that not all of your giving is necessarily to a 501c3 charity.
13:25Sometimes it's to a person who needs some extra help.What strikes me about that is, number one, that not all of your giving is a tax write-off.And number two, that that means that if you were to use a vehicle such as a donor-advised fund,that vehicle would not work for some of the giving that you do. Can you talk about that decision?At the end of the day, we're led by the decision to give more than obviously the tax benefits or things like that.Donor advice funds are great. In all this to say, like, we give to a lot of organizations, a lot of not-for-profits.Like, that's part of the equation. I think there's a lot of benefit to that because a lot of these organizations are solving problems that can't be solved on an individual level by one person.You need to have an organization to have the scale and the scope to make a dent in whatever the problem is, human trafficking or whatever, like the thing is.
14:16But outside of that, I think one of the joys that I have and the things I love about giving to individuals or individual situations is that you get to see that impact a lot closer.And especially if you know the person or get to watch kind of how that affects their life.That's really, really fun.And we love that so much.You know, I think if you're only giving to whatever, not-for-profit organizations or something that I think you're missing out on.some of that joy and that excitement of being able to participate on a one-on-one basis with someoneas you give to them. So all that to say, yes, an ideal world, I'd love a tax break on all of it,but we're willing to sacrifice that in order to be able to do some of that one-on-one stuff.
14:57When it comes to the one-on-one giving, does that have an impact on the relationship that youhave with that person? Or has that ever had a negative impact?Yeah, that's been something that has been interesting. In most cases, I would say, a positiveof impact. We're trying to use as much wisdom as possible with this in terms of situations wheremaybe there's an enabling component. You want to help. It was a book called When Helping Harts or somethinglike that, which kind of explores this idea. We never want to be hurting anyone or harming anyone byour giving. You know, that's not the goal. It's the opposite of that. So that is a factor in it.I've had experiences. I remember one time I had a gas station. Like I saw a guy who really looked like
15:36he needed some help and I gave him some money and he started screaming at me.me. You know, I don't need your charity, blah, I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm trying to help.You know, so it's like I've had moments like that were backfired and didn't go the way Iwanted. But at the end of the day, that's not going to keep me from trying to be kind and tryingto be generous going forward just because it wasn't received well sometimes. And, you know,and I think there's a maturity as you learn how to do it with tact, because every situation isdifferent, you know, some people are not willing. So one thing that we're doing more of isanonymous giving, which I absolutely love because some cases, I guess,
16:09get to sneak around like James Bond and like try to find a way to get it into their hands withoutknowing that it came from us. At the end of the day, I think most cases it's worked well for therelationship. You mentioned GoFundMe. Do you search GoFundMe for things that strike your heart? Or do youhear about specific GoFundMe? No, I mean, I don't really just scroll through GoFundMe. I think forsomebody with tons of money and just like looking for causes you can do that. We haven't done that much yet.But I just said that just because it seems to be the platform of choice for a lot of people.When personal situations arise, I mean, we had a family.We knew our whole house burnt down.
16:46They were in a bad situation for that.We had a widow with unexpected death of her husband.So these situations, I just tend to see them pop up on GoFundMe.And so that's why I said that.Yeah.Are there any other platforms that you particularly like or that you would recommend or you would want to share with the audience that's listening?Yeah.I mean, GoFundMe seems to be the one I see most times.
17:06I do like it just because they make it really easy for a friend or a family member of somebodygoing through a hard time to just set something up for them really easy.I think it's a just good experience for most of the donors.There's a lot that I think they're doing really well.So that would be my first recommendation for anybody wanting to set something up for someone.Do you use Charity Navigator or Give Well or any of the charity evaluation tools to gaugethe efficacy of a given nonprofit?No, I've definitely used them in the past. And occasionally I do. My one B for kickback a little bit
17:40is that in terms of effectiveness of a charity, I think not everything can be quantified.And I'm not saying don't pay attention to whatever the numbers and everything, Charity Navigator'slisting. But I think it's a factor that needs to be considered that some things can't fully bequantified. And so that's something that's in my mind as well. And so I'm just throwing that out therefor anybody who needs to hear that. Those tools can be really, really helpful whencomparing and evaluating. I want to get the most out of every dollar that I give. I don't want itto be wasted. Like I still care a lot about this money. I had to work hard to earn it. And so Iwant it to go somewhere and make as big of a dent as possible. Right. Let's talk about the
18:20commitment to your age as a percentage. So you did it at 31. What happened next? First of all,how old are you right now? I'm 41 right now. So we have officially been doing this for 10 years.We are now of 41%.It's been a really interesting journey.And so for me personally,I'm someone who never wants to get to the point where I'm too comfortable.Tim Ferriss talks about this a lot.Just this idea of stretching yourself.
18:48A lot of the stoic writers talk about this.Tim Ferriss,it might have been for our work week,just talking about this idea of doing regular experimentsto kind of stretch your comfort levelsand go beyond what you feel comfortable with.And so what's been good for us about thisis it's created a good amount of tension for us,
19:04giving 41% of our income,because it doesn't put us in this positionwhere we have so much moneythat we don't have to think about everythingor think about the decisions that we're making with it.Previous to us giving 31%.I remember reaching a point with our incomewhere I wasn't saying no to myself very often.
19:21Not necessarily about buying a yacht or something huge,but any time a thought came to my mind of,oh, I want that, that'd be nice.I would just go out and buy it.And I feel like that was making me weakerbecause I need to hear no.I need to be telling myself, no, I need to have some walls to bump up against, or I've just becomereally weak, you know, and I want to be stronger in terms of that decision making, in terms of
19:41being able to handle a no. This percentage thing, for the last 10 years, anyway, has just beena really good, perfect amount of tension to where it stretches us. So even though we still have a goodincome, there's not too much sitting there. As this incrementally rises, yes, we have a nice houseand like we're well taken care of and have food in the fridge and stuff.But this tension has been really, really good for us.I think keeping us strong and nimble and not becoming too weak.Right. You stay hungry a little bit.We'll come back to this episode after this word from our sponsors.
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22:35Try the season's hottest flavorsfrom the PC Holiday Insiders Report.Please feast responsibly.Over the last 10 years, how has your income changed?Income has gone up and down.It's been a roller coaster throughout, which has been really interesting because, you know,we had points where it's like, I don't know if we're going to be able to continue this,but we did and we made it through.
23:04And then there have been other points where it was a little bit more room and it was a little morecomfortable giving whatever the percentage was.Even as the income has fluctuated up and down, the entrepreneurial journeyand the ups and downs of that.We've been able to continue to do it, and I'm excited.Yeah, I want to keep going until I'm 90.I want to see if we can do that, Paul.And you over the last 10 years also have had some kids.
23:25Yeah, in the last 10 years, we've added three to our family.So expenses have obviously increased along that front.Given the changes in income and given the change, the dramatic change to the size of your family,how were you able to manage your budget such that you could continue giving at this level?I think any budget just needs to be living.and evolving and you need to be adapting into changing circumstances of your family. And so this has beenno different. I was talking to somebody just their day, I recommended percentages, how much theyspend on groceries or, you know, rent. And I was thinking about that in terms of us. I'm like,
23:58well, it's very, very different in our situation because we have such a large percentage that'sallocated at giving. So it just throws all those percentages way off. But really, it's just been adaptingto whatever that looks like. Paycheck comes in and we just adapt it to this 41%. That'sThat's the thing that starts it all off.And then beyond that, we fill in the gaps accordingly.And it's worked fine.Is it 41% of your after-tax income or pre-tax income?This would be after-tax income.
24:26One of the things that you've talked about and that I know you mentioned in your bookis that there are some people who try to guilt or shame others into being generous.And that is counterproductive.Can you talk about how you've seen that and why it's counterproductive?I think it's really common in our society, and I think it's something that we don't even realize it's happening.Just from the simple thing of they bought me a present last year, whatever, this random acquaintance, and therefore I feel like I have to buy them one this year.There's so many things like that. Another example, we see us all time, but like sometimes I'll be at the grocery store, and then the cashier's like, hey, do you want to donate a dollar to X or Y?and there'll be two customers sitting behind me and the cashier.
25:15And I'm like, no, I don't.I don't want to give to that.But I kind of feel pressured because you're sitting there asking me and I'm going to feelguilty if I say no.And the customer behind me, he might be already saying yes in his mind.And I'm going to look like a selfish jerk.It's like that's just not the right motivation for giving.And I think that's how so many people give.
25:33And I think that's why a lot of people don't find the joy in giving is because it'spressure filled.And it feels like I'm being pushed into this thing that I don't want todo. I remember working in corporate America, like, we got all this pressure from our bosses togive to the United Way because they were trying to hit their numbers so they could get theirspecial perk or whatever. And it's like, if you want to give to the United Way, that's great. But whenthere's a pressure-filled thing, like you have to do this or else, I don't, like, that's just notjoyful giving. That's just not cheerful giving. That's not fun. When at all possible, seek for the
26:04opportunities to give in a way that actually is enjoyable. Because I think that makes you want to do itmore. You know, it's kind of fuel for your fire to just continue, and it's just so much more funthat way. And in terms of making giving more fun, you talk about giving both from a place ofgratitude and also from a place of pain. You've written about that. Can you describe what thatmeans? So it comes from a preacher named Andy Stanley, actually, had this quote where he said,his framework for giving is giving from a thankful heart and giving from a broken heart. Just this idea ofIf you want to know where to give and you don't have any ideas, like, this is a great place to start.Like, what are the things you're thankful for?
26:45What are the organizations that you're thankful that they exist?Who are the people in your life who are you like, I'm really thankful that they're there?So that's a great place to give.In other hand, what are the things that break your heart?What are the problems in the world that you wish were not there?What are the situations in the people in your life around you or that you're familiar with or whatever?Where it's like, oh, I feel so bad about that.How can you use your time, your energy, your words to help alleviate that problem?
27:14I think those are two great places to start looking.Nice.And you'll encourage people to create a giving dream.Like people often have.Yeah.And I love the phrasing of that because people often have dreams about what they want to spend on.Right.I want to take a certain trip.
27:31I want to take a trip to Europe for six months.Or I want a certain type of house.or people often have purchasing dreams, but you rarely hear about giving dreams.Can you describe the concept of a giving dream?We talked to Tony Robbins or whoever else, and he would say, yeah, if you want a goal,like you need to write this down.You need to have this in front of you because that's going to motivate you towards it.So in terms of purchasing things, a lot of us use that to our advantage and fuel to reach those
27:57bigger goals.Why not do this on the generosity side as well?We just knew we wanted to be able to give away millions of dollars, which was veryspecific and there's no way we're ever going to get there. But, you know, beyond that, we just wanted togive money. We didn't know where it wanted to go. But there's a lot of people who was like, I want tobuild a retreat center to help battered women and have dreams like that that are not money specific,but idea and vision specific. That's even more powerful when you can have that clear in your mind ofthis is something I'd like to be able to do. And then you can start working towards it in that
28:30direction. And if you don't get those dreams out, get them on paper, get them in front of you, and justare continually reminded about it, it's easy for that to just drift into the background of an ideathat's so far back in your head that you're just not thinking about, and then you just go onwith day-to-day life, and then you miss out on that opportunity. Let's say you have a dream of,a big dream, like opening up a shelter, for example. Yeah. In that case, is it better, I'm usingbetter in air quotes, is it better to give throughout your life every month or every year to othercauses other charities, or is it better to accumulate money such that 10 years down the road,you would have a big amount that you could then use for that big dream?
29:19My answer to this question is typically both. Warren Buffett is one who has been pretty vocalabout, I'm really good at making money grow, so I'm going to turn it into a whole lot,and then when I die, it's going to be passed on. There's a reasonable argument for that,But my argument against it would be that, A, you don't know how long you're going to live.You don't know how far you're going to make it.But then B, again, like the joy component, I think it's really fun having those experiences, dotting your life all throughout.It's the years go by and all these memories that are created and all the impact that you can have with organizations rather than waiting to a certain point when you're retired or near dead to give all that away.I understand both sides.
30:01and we are actually doing both and it's not like we give everything away. Like we're savingmoney up for that point. And I hope to be able to give tens of millions of dollars away whenI die. But we're also choosing to do it now. I think there's a real advantage to that.How old is your oldest child? Eight years old. Have you gotten your kids, especially the older onesinvolved in giving? Yes, we've begun to do this. I'm very much a work in progress here becauseas parents figuring it out as we go, you know. The interesting thing to me, though, that I'mI think is important for anyone listening because you hear this anytime you read a parenting bookor whatever. The kids are watching what we're doing and most of what we're passing down to them
30:39isn't taught but it's caught. And so this has proven to be true with this. I don't feel like we havetalked enough to our eight-year-old about giving in generosity. And we've definitely had plenty ofconversations and we've tried to set up situations to create teachable moments. What's been reallyinteresting to me is that he seems to have caught it without us having to teach nearly as muchas I would have thought. I think it's just a testament to how much our kids are watching us and whyit's so important that really with all of our financial decisions that it's not just for us,but our kids are paying attention to what we're doing and they're paying attention to thedecisions that we make and the mistakes that we're making. So I think it's just a really important
31:22thing that we as parents are just living this stuff out. Whatever thethe things are, the ideals we want to pass longer kids. Like, we need to be living them more than justtelling them you should do this. And how can you tell that your eight-year-old has caught it?One of the interesting things, like, we have a kid's ministry at our church that he goes to. And we've beentold by the youth workers in which we're not even in there that every single time there's anoffering at church, like he's the first one up running up there, wants to pray for the offering.And we've gotten text messages that sent us videos. And it's like, whoa, like, where is this coming from?Because again, like, I don't feel like we've talked to him about that that much.
31:58But all the kids' workers in church are saying, you know, tell me that you're Bob and Linda's kid without tell me that your Bob and Linda's kid.So, yeah, it's just kind of funny to us.How have your friends, family, how have people reacted when you've told them that you're giving away now 41% of your income?You know, it's mixed.I mean, some people are like, you're just crazy.I get that.I would have thought that too.If you would have asked us, you know, 15, 20 years ago, if you had told me we'd do this, I'm like, there's no way.
32:23That's insane.we're not doing this because we're such great altruistic people.We're doing this because this is a better way to live.And that's what I meant by this, like, kind of selfish motivation.In some weird way, it's kind of selfish because our life has just been better.It's been a more enjoyable life this last 10 years than it was the previous 10.I just really believe that a lot of that is because of the generosity that we stepped up intoin this higher level of giving in all these moments we've been able to make and all these
32:53experiences and just knowing that we're having an impact with our money, it's just made things moreenjoyable. And it's made, you know, and there's studies that prove this that, you know, generouspeople are happier than those who aren't. It feels like we've lived that out and kind of seenthat for ourselves. And so we want to continue. Things are just better this way. Why stop?Right. Has it impacted your savings rates? Has it impacted your retirement contributions?Any financial goals other than... It's just always the first thing that we do. So I haven't even reallythought about it much through those lenses. We're still saving for retirement. We're still savingmoney, like putting money aside. I just don't really feel like it's bothered us. And I've been
33:30saving for retirement or older age for a while. We're doing fine and we're on great path.Unless the whole economy blows up, I think we're going to be fine and we're giving me a goodspot. We'll return to the show in just a moment. There are people listening to this who rightnow are thinking, I'd like to start donating more of my money. I can't right now do 41%, but I dowant to increase it. What would you say to them? What tips would you give them for how to increase it?Both logistically and also mentally, emotionally getting over those hurdles. Yeah, just so we're clear,like I'm not telling anybody to give 44%. Yeah. Like, this is just what we felt like we should do.but I think the best thing to do is just start with a percentage or if you are giving a percentage,
34:32just increase it by a percentage.One of the things that we talk about in the book is what we call a 1% challenge.These last 10 years going from 31 to 41%, like we haven't felt it.We're increasing by 1% every year.And I have never met a single person who started giving or saving 1% and then came back and said,oh, that was just way too hard.Like that 1% like just did me in, you know?Like everybody says the opposite.
34:56like, oh, 1%, I didn't even feel it. I didn't even notice it. And honestly, probably eventwo and three and four and five percent, most people would say, I didn't even feel it. That's the powerof it. Just make it first, you know, automate it, set it aside. And again, like, I would say,if I were starting out, focus on putting money in a separate account to be able to give from. And then whathappens is once it's there and it's earmarked specifically for giving, now you're on the lookout foropportunities and for things. That's when it gets really, really fun. When you're lookingfor opportunities and then you see it and it's like, oh, I'm ready to go. When we first got married,I remember having situations come up and I wanted to give, but we had $5. That's all I could
35:37scrape up. I was always so frustrated by that. I wanted it to be different, but it started,you know, with us, really just creating this account and designated how much we're going to putinto it. For anybody listening, just starting, just put one, two percent, pull it aside, set aside,make it automatic, make it the first thing you do in a month and then just go from there.Nice. Excellent. Well, we're coming to the end of our time. Are there any final thoughts that you would like to share with the people listening?I've never met anyone who stepped into generosity at a higher level, just continue to increase up. It just felt like that was a bad decision.I think most people find that this was better. I would say just lean into it, lean into that direction. I don't think you'll regret it.Nice. Well, thank you for spending this time with us. Where can people find you if they want to know more about you and your work?
36:24Sure. Yeah, we just released a book called Simple Money, Rich Life. So that is probably my life's work all rolled up into a book. And then beyond that, we're Seed Time Money podcast. Lynn and I are chatting over there. And then we're at Seed Time on Instagram.Thank you. What are three key takeaways that we got from this conversation? Number one, doing things that don't directly build your net worth or boost the size of your portfolio or progress you towards financial and.independence, doing those things can still completely enhance your life and enhance the lives of thepeople around you. And ultimately, that's what this is all for. What we're all doing, the whole reasonthat we pay attention to our money and our time and our energy and our attention, the reason we payattention to resource management in the first place is because we want to create greaterfulfillment in our lives. Our financial goals are a tool that can help us get there, but neverconfuse the tool with the thing that you're trying to build. The thing you're trying to build is
37:34fulfillment. Money is just the tool for that. And so if there's ever an apparent trade-off betweenthe goal of fulfillment and the method of building your net worth, prioritize the goal, not themethod. From that perspective of me being whatever, 80 or 90, looking back on my life, this,I'm 100% convinced are going to be, these memories are going to be the things that I'm goingto be thinking about remembering, thankful that I participated in, so much more than whatever,the extra few thousand dollars that I added to my 401K. Don't let your financial goals pull youaway from the purpose, the why of it all. That's key takeaway number one. Key takeaway number two,being generous, giving more money to charity can have the added benefit of keeping you hungry,
38:28keeping you on a path of progress.Sometimes when success comes, it can be easy to get complacent.And, I mean, you heard their story.We're not talking big, crazy, Uber wealthy success.Remember, when this all started, they were making a combined five-figure income.But still, it can be way too easy to go to.to Target and drop $100 and be like, what the heck did I even just spend that on? But giving yourmoney a purpose and pushing yourself, stretching your budget in order to fulfill that purpose,
39:05that can keep you motivated. I remember reaching a point with our income where I wasn't saying noto myself very often. I'm not necessarily about buying a yacht or something huge, but anytimea thought came to my mind of, oh, I want that. That'd be nice. I would just go.out and buy it. And I feel like that was making me weaker because I need to hear no. I need to betelling myself no. I need to have some walls to bump up against or I've just become really weak.And I want to be stronger in terms of that decision making in terms of being able to handle a no.This percentage thing, for the last 10 years anyway, has just been a really good, perfect amount oftension to where it stretches us. And so that's the second key takeaway. Setting an ambitious giving goal
39:49can keep your motivation high.Finally, key takeaway number three,if you're not entirely surewhat causes you want to support,ask yourself two questions.What are you grateful for?And what breaks your heart?There are so many examples out there
40:08that answer both right now.Natural disasters, wars, famine,all of the relief effortstaking place globally.It breaks me.my heart and also makes me thankful for my own life at the same time. Or here in the United States,I look at Alzheimer's, dementia, the struggles that families have when they need to becomecaretakers, it's inspiring, it's heartbreaking, it's every emotion all wrapped up in one.
40:40When we feel that, we get a sense of where we want to aim our money, what we're really working for.a preacher named Andy Stanleyhad this quote where he saidhis framework for givingis giving from a thankful heartand giving from a broken heart.Just his idea of if you want to know where to giveand you don't have any ideas,
40:59like this is a great place to start.Like what are the things you're thankful for?What are the organizationsthat you're thankful that they exist?Who are the people in your life?Who are you like,I'm really thankful that they're there.So that's a great place to give.
41:11In other hand,what are the things that break your heart?What are the problems in the worldthat you wish were not there?What are the situations in the people in your life around you or that you're familiar with or whatever?Where it's like, oh, I feel so bad about that.How can you use your time, your energy, your words to help alleviate that problem?Those are three key takeaways that come from this conversation with Bob Lodick.
41:38Thank you so much for tuning in.Please subscribe to the show notes so that you can get a synopsis of every single one of our episodes,including timestamps of everything that we've talked about,you can subscribe for free at afford anything.com slash show notes.That's afford anything.com slash show notes.If you want to chat with other members of the community,head to afford anything.com slash community,where we have all of these villages, all these breakout groups,
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42:49Thanks so much for tuning in.I hope you enjoyed today's episode, and if you did, please share it with a friend or a family member.Forward the show notes to them, and make sure that you're subscribed in whatever app you'reusing to listen to this show.I want to give a shout out to Emilia N. Miles, who left a review on Apple Podcasts on Thursday,in which she says, quote, Paula has made financial learning fun, interesting, and tangible.I enjoy the thoughtful rhetoric between her and the guests or callers.I really enjoy listening to her thought process and her ability to go from wide-angle lens to a zoomed-in detailed answer.
43:26I've learned so much over the past two years and gained confidence in entering the rental space.Three rental properties and counting.I look forward to her podcast each week.Thank you.And congratulations on your three rental properties.That's incredible.Steve, can we get a round of applause?big congrats to you.
43:49And thank you so much for taking the time to leave a thoughtful review.These are instrumental in helping us book guests.So huge thank you and big congrats.For those of you who are listening who have not yet left us a review,if you could take the time to do so, that would be incredible.So thank you so much.Well, this is the Afford Anything podcast.I hope that you enjoyed it.
44:13I hope you learned something.Most importantly, I hope.hope you take action. Thank you for tuning in. My name is Paula Pant and I will catch you in the nextepisode.
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