Afford Anything - How Kids Affect Your Hustle (and it's Okay!)

Episode Date: January 28, 2016

#5: Paula wants to know how J. Money’s life has changed as a hustler since having kids. For a while, J worked less and made less money. "It was a conscious decision to not make as much money for a while. I was more than happy making less because I was working on stuff I cared about. I also had a fear of being a work-a-holic and picking my hustle over my kids. Having kids forced me to have a work/life balance." Leave comments, contact us, or find links to more of our stuff at http://themoneyshow.co/05 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, recording now. Cool. Poopie, poopie, poopie. You're listening to the Paula and Jay Money Show. We'd rather be at a bar with you right now, but this is the next best thing. It's Financial Freedom Time with Paula Pant and Jay Money. Hey, Jay Money. Hi, Paula.

Hi, all you beautiful listeners. All four of you. All four of you. Hello. I've got a lot of coffee going through my name, so I'm doing spectacular. Nice. I'm trying to get there. I'm on my first cup still.

Yeah, you're in the shiny Vegas. I am. For a few hours apart here, I'm in the D.C. area. Hey, wondering why the sound quality kind of sucks? It's because we don't really know what we're doing, at least not yet. So if the sound quality bothers you, just skip ahead to episode six where we figure it out. But if it doesn't bother you, stick around. We got some good stuff. So for those of you who are listening right now, it's because Jay is on,

Eastern time and I'm on Pacific time. For me, it's like just after 8 in the morning. And for Jay, it's like lunchtime. Yeah, man, I wake up at 5 a.m. every day like Benjamin Franklin. Do you really? My day's almost over. Oh, yeah. I'm on on workday. I only do during the work week. I'm on workday number 53, I believe today was. Wow. Yeah, it's cool. It's really, it's really different. I mean, I'm a night person, so this is way different, but I'm getting a lot more done. Wow. What time do you go to bed at night in order to make that happen? Anywhere between in a perfect world like 10, but like late, now that I'm used to it, I've been like inching it up so now I'm up to like 11. And then the first like month, you know, I was in bed like 9, 930 and I was

just gone. You know, but now like I'm used to it. My body's used to it. And now I'm like, oh, I'll just watch one show or something. But yeah, that's a really interesting experiment. I'm fascinated by this. So do you fall asleep at 10? which means that you like kind of start winding down going to bed, brushing your teeth, reading a book at like nine? Yeah. So we put our kids down 8, 15, 830. And so what I do is I hurry up and take a shower.

But if I'm like, you know what, I'm tired, I'll brush my teeth and do everything. So like by nine I'm already done. And then it's just a matter of do I want to hang out? So I'll lay in bed and read or hang out, you know, that I'm just, I just fall asleep. Like I just close my eyes now within like seconds I'm gone. which is like a big change. Yeah. And then the most interesting change besides like all the productivity stuff, I dream, like really vivid dreams.

Like I have like really fascinating. Some are bad, but most of them are good, just positive dreams. And I remember everything clearly. It feels like it's so, I don't know if like the hours I'm spending or it's really solid, but whatever the reason, like I dream like crazy. So it's really neat. I've been doing a mod, I mean a much more mellow version of that. I've been waking up between like around 6.30.

Okay. That's still freaking early. Yeah. There are some mornings that I'll wake up at, like, the range is like 6 a.m. to 7 a.m. And what time do you go to bed? Like last night I went to bed at about midnight. So it's still a solid like six to seven hours of sleep. Yeah.

Yeah. That's great. You know, that's like being in bed at maybe 11 or something. Okay. Like my brain needs to unwind right before I sleep. So, you know, once I'm in bed, I'll usually read. for a little bit and then and then eventually pass out. That's good. I think that like we have like a no, I have a no electronics rule in our bedroom.

Yeah. If I'm being bad, like I can't touch it. My wife is on it, but I'm like no, it's been like a solid year almost. And it, man, it just so much better sleep and better like just from the brain to unwind. It's crazy. Yeah, exactly. I feel the same way. No, no laptops, none of that. Like a Kindle is fine for reading, but nothing work related. Yes, exactly. Yeah. The other thing, on my laptop, I have this app called Flux, F-L-U-X. And what it does is, like, you set the time in which you fall asleep. And then as the day goes on, it gradually removes the wavelengths of light, like, the blue portion of light wavelengths. And because those are the wavelengths that, like, keep you awake, right?

So, like, if the, like, I don't, okay, I don't totally understand how the eye works or how light wave lengths. lengths work, but basically there are certain light wavelengths that signal to your brain that it's daytime and it's time to be awake. And so what this app does is it remove, as the day goes on, it removes those light wavelengths from your computer screen. So that like if you're on the computer at say 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. you're looking at a screen that has different types of color and light in it than the screen that you'd be looking at at noon.

I wonder if I wake up at like five and like I don't get on the computer until around six. But then like around like my workday usually ends like around 4.30 or five. So like at 4.30 or 5 would like think it's like getting dark out and like start like changing it even though it's like bright as hell outside. Yeah, yeah. You can program it for whatever your schedule is. Okay. So like you just set like this is the time I go to sleep. This is the time I wake up. And then it does all of that for you based around that. You know what I want a nap to do, like at 530 to shut down and never turn on until the next morning.

Like, like, not even, like, even if I wanted to, it just does it. Like, it's gone. Wow. That's what forces me not to do anymore. Like, it would be so different if that was your life, right? Like, you would get so much shit done, so much. Because there's things that linger. And I'm like, well, I can go on later on, just pop on for 10 minutes or something.

Yeah. But, like, if there was nothing lingering and that was it, like you were done, you know, you'd be getting. a lot more done. Yeah, I don't know if I could handle that. So what I wanted to talk to you about today, and different weird colors in the sky. It goes back to actually something that you mentioned earlier. So you were talking about getting the kids ready for bed at 830, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So what I wanted to ask you is like, how has your life as a hustler and as an entrepreneur, how has it changed since having kids? And actually, before we get into that, let's kind of establish your backstory. Like, when did you quit your job and become self-employed in relation to, like, popping out babies? Did you have a kid yet at that point or not? No, I was working full-time, 40 hours a week for like a startup in Washington, D.C., like doing, like, cell phone-related technology. And I started the blog for a few years. It started take off.

Eventually I was doing that like 30, 40 hours a week, plus the job. My wife's like, dude, you need to like stop one and keep the other. And I was like, well, it's not going to be like my job. So it was just the two of us. We were married, you know, dual incomes. Life was good financially. I was a hustler extreme. And then I went to, you know, turn in my two weeks notice.

I got fired on the same day. And I said, oh, well, I'm a full-time blogger as of this day. And that was four years ago. So yeah, so the first year of self-employment was just me in my life. There's no kids. And I still work like 70, 80 hours, like nonstop for that whole year until I found out we were pregnant. And so, yeah, so I had like a few years of really hustling and just saving money like crazy. Like my goal is to have like 50 grand saved up so I could quit my job and just try and blog full time.

So I think I got to about 40,000. And then that's when, you know, I got laid off and I just went right into it. So, you know, I told my wife, hey, like, well, let me just try this out for a couple months. You know, if it doesn't work out, I'll start looking for a job. And after that period, we just, you know, I kept working. So, you know, so here we are today. Yay. But yeah, like, so to answer your original question, going from 70, 80 hours of work to

realizing you're having a kid. Like it really like I mean, and everyone says it, but like your life changes like so many different ways, like good ones, some bad ones. But it's like just a mental like mind. It's just crazy,

you know, like a, like you're responsible for like another human being, you know, which is crazy. And like you leave the hospital and then you're just, it's just you and them. There's like no rules and there's books and all that,

you know, but I mean, kids are just, they're also different. And so really like my first thought was, like I don't want to be that workaholic person, you know, like that's my fear that like I would just pick work over my kids, you know. And I just, we'd been doing love drop, which was our philanthropy project. So like the day I found out we were pregnant, I was literally like in toys are our babies are us. Like I had to spend $2,000 on baby stuff. I didn't know anything about babies. I didn't know nothing. Like we had to get like this girl to come help us like shop for babies. All these babies. I see. swear in the store before I find out like staring at me. I'm like, these babies are creeping me out. Like he's looking at me. Wait, so you were in Babies R Us for the philanthropy project,

so not like unrelated to? Totally unrelated. Totally unrelated. And we had like, I mean, $2,000 to, we were trying to help these three premature babies that were like on like breathing ventilation systems. They were really poor family. I mean, it was just a horrible situation. So we raised money online. We flew out there Indianapolis and we had two grand to just buy as much stuff for babies as we could, like food, diapers, all that kind of stuff. And again, I didn't know

any of it. I never changed a diaper. I didn't know about I didn't know anything. And so we get in the car, we load it up and then I get the call. So my wife's pregnant and I'm like, what? It was just one of those moments like you don't really understand all the way and you're like trying to figure it out. You know, and then we go and help these little babies

and I'm holding them and I'm like about to cry and they're like, dude, what's wrong with you? Like, I haven't hold anyone except like my my best friend business partner Nate. So it was really fascinating. And so we, and it took us two years of trying. And we just couldn't, you know,

get pregnant and we thought something was wrong. I was literally like, had gone to like the fertility place to like give samples and all that stuff so they can like diagnose that there's something wrong with me. And then like we just stopped trying for a couple months and then all of a sudden it happened. So that was cool. The second time around, we thought,

well, you know, it might be another two years. Let's start trying. We got pregnant on the very first try. Wow. So, like, that was, like, way shocking, too. But, but, but yeah, so going back to your question, like, like, it changed. Like, A, I didn't want to hustle as much. And then I also realized when I stopped hustling as much that, like, I forgot about life, you know?

I forgot about, like, doing enjoyable stuff and not. I mean, like, I love working and blogging and making money. Like, that's fun. But I forgot what it was like before that happened. And so now to put things in perspective, we have two little boys, a three-year-old and one-and-a-half-year-old. I work maybe 40 hours a week. So I'm trying to get down to like 20 or 30. And so what I'm realizing is like to like work less and still get paid, like you have to be super efficient or like be working on something that's going to like produce more.

Because like you can't just keep working less and less and money goes up. Like you just have to figure out how to do that, right? So I've been like that perfect world of trying to figure it out how to do that. And what have you figured out so far? focusing on one or two projects is better than like 10. So I went from owning budget sur sexy, we were doing the philanthropy thing, and then I literally had bought like 10 sites total. Like, here's a whole underground market of financial blogs that people are buying and selling

and flipping and all. I mean, it's just crazy. Yeah. Like half of the blogs that are out there that's older than two years have probably been sold or managed by someone else. Like, it's interesting. And so I stumbled across that by accident. And that's what helped led me to lead me to be able to do it full time is that I had a whole bunch of

sites. And I only wrote and I only cared and promoted my own budgets are sexy. Yeah. The others were like purely business. Yeah. And they were friends that I regret. And they're like, you know what? I don't want to blog anymore.

What should I do? But it was making money. So it's kind of like a small business. So I ended up taking it over from them, given them money, then hired writers. And I mean, I wasn't really involved in it. I just technically owned it. Right. You know, so it's kind of like your real estate.

empire except it was online. Right. And it was still very much passive, but like I was kind of like the property manager of them. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. So that took up the reason I was working so long because like I was just managing a whole bunch of sites and like keeping them afloat. Right. And I really wasn't like strategizing or trying to build my own personal projects that I actually cared about. So I went from like 10 or 12 sites total down to two now, which is just budget or sexy, just rockstar finance. And, you know, magically, the more you spend on it. And, you know, magically, the more you spend on it, you know, the more it goes up, you know, traffic and and money. And so that's one thing I've been learning a lot. And I do like consulting and coaching on the side and, you know, some

projects here and there. Yeah. But by and large, like, I've cut out everything for the most part except those two main things. Nice. And like so at the peak before kids, or even with with the first one in the beginning, I think I was making, like from all my online projects and stuff, total, not just my blog. I think the highest I got was like 140 or 50,000. And that lasted a couple of years, like two years. Then as I said, you know what? Like scale back.

Like I like when you're cutting things, you know, it's like you're selling your homes. You're getting a little chunk of money, but then you lose all that passive income. Right. So I got some chunks of money, which helped. But then my income went from like 150. Like last year, I think was like 60 or 70,000 by the time like, you know, I don't know what the word is called. But after you like deduct everything and max out your IRAs and all that kind of stuff, like whatever you're left over, like the taxable income.

Your adjusted gross income. Yeah, that thing was like 60 or 70,000, which is a huge ass drop. Right. And I support a family of four all by myself for the most part. Financially at least. Yeah. And so now, then once I got rid of everything and started focusing now, like this year, I'm probably back up to 130, 140, you know.

So that tells you like it's possible, it's just a lot of figuring out and moving around. So then how were you able to make that jump from, say, from an AGI of 70 a year to an AGI of 130 or 140 without unduly increasing your hours without like, you know, the time for money exchange cycle? Yeah. So I did a lot of like losing money. Like for a whole year, I was losing, oh, and Vermont. So going back to kid stuff, like without kids, like obviously it's cheaper. Yeah. So not only did I was like dropping from like 140 or whatever down to 70, but then like tack on 2000 a month for daycare.

Yeah. And food and all the other stuff that comes with it. And I was trying to like start like college funds. Yeah. And so like yeah. So like we were literally losing around 2000 a month for a whole year. Like we were negative cash flow. And so and the only thing that kept me afloat was, hey, look, what you're doing now.

This is going to start taking off again. Right. Like like I knew that like I had to take a cut if I wanted to only focus on my passion project. And so that's a big thing, right? Going back to money, like, yeah, I'd rather be making 150 again, you know, like in a perfect world. But happiness level, I was more happy making less and working on more of the stuff I cared about. Like, it's crazy. Like, that's half the money, especially as a money person, you know, and the show is a lot about money. Like, I was more happy making less, you know, now granted, like, there's kids in my life and, like,

I was working on a mission. So there's all those other factors. It's not just money. But, like, I traded it. Like, that was the conscious decision. I'm going to lose money for a little while. But the hope is that it's going to go back up and I'm building the foundation. You know, I mean,

even, you know, budgets are sexy rock star. Like, my traffic literally almost doubled in the last year and a half only because I just pay attention more. You know, I don't even do that much more, to be honest with you.

I shouldn't be doing a lot more. I just hate business stuff sometimes. You know, like you don't want to like hawk all these crazy products and make a ton of money off your readers that you don't care about, you know? Right. Like the problem. We care about the readers.

Right, right, right. You know, so, you know, there's that whole balance. But yeah, but the kids that were kind of like the impetus that, you know, they kind of forced me to have a better work-life balance, you know. And I would say, like, it's pretty good for the only exception of, like, I don't really have a social life as much because, like, I spend all my time with my kids, you know, and if I'm not with them, then I'm usually, like, working. You know, that's one thing that I've read.

So on a couple of financial blogs, I've, when the topic of, you know, when the topic of like kids and money comes up. One of the things that I've read is people say, like, yeah, you have all of these additional expenses with children, like diapers and food and all of that. But there are certain expenses that you no longer have, like your bar tab is just... Oh, that's true. I never thought about that. Yeah.

So what's your opinion of that? Like, does that make a significant difference? Or does it depend on, like... I don't think it evens out at all. But you're right. Like, we don't party as much. Like, we'll drink beer at home, which is obviously cheaper. And, like, I'll have, like, one or two.

max instead, you know, whereas like before, like on the weekends, we'd go downtown and party and D.C. and all that kind of good stuff. So yeah, so you do save money with their. We get a lot of hand-me-downs for especially clothes, so we don't really spend too much on clothes. But it's really like the daycare situation is just ridiculous, especially like if you live in like even more expensive cities. Yeah. You know, that that's really the killer. And then like healthcare is a lot, well, I got it for free at my work for a lot, which is awesome. But when I went on my own, I think I was spending like 200 a month. Then like it would like creep up like when I emerged my wife, maybe like 500 a month.

And now literally it's almost a thousand bucks a month to have the four of us on, you know, Obamacare or whatever it's called. Yeah. You know. And because when you make it a lot of money, more money, like you don't get all the whatever. The subsidies. Yeah. The subsidies.

So like earlier in the year, we got subsidies. So it was like 600. But then when I realized like this year like it was starting to take off, I'm like, oh crap. Like I'm going to like not have subsidies and then I'm going to have to pay back it or whatever it is. I don't know at the end of the year. Yeah. So yeah, so that goes up, you know, my wife runs a laundry every single day, which is like mind blowing to me, you know, instead like once or twice a week. There's a lot of expenses, obviously, but I think saving like all our activities, which I love are like going for walks, going to the park, going to visit grandma, going to do like all these

things that like I did, you know, normally every now and then, but, but they're all free. And like kids, Like, man, you, like, give them water to splash in or throw rocks in the river or something. They go bonkers, you know, give them a box. Like, they love it. Like, we have a pile of, like, crap that, I mean, it's not crap. It's, like, really nice toys. Yeah. But they don't go for it.

They go for all, like, the silly stupid things. Right. They're, like, free. I love it, you know. You know, like, they just, they're just happy. Like, honestly, all they want to do is, like, spend time with you, you know, which is free, right? And they learn, and they're soaking it up. So, like, in a weird way, like, I've become kind of like a childish kid.

myself. Like, I'm remembering all this stuff I forgot as an adult, you know, like, you forget that you can, like, play and dream and do some of this stuff, right? Like, you forget, like, the little things are making you happy, you know, like, and I think that was the, that was, like, the number one thing that I thought when we realized we were pregnant with the second one. Like, my first thought was like, holy shit, like, how did this happen on the first try? Like, that was, like, and then it was like, oh, my gosh, like, our son's going to have, like, a little play toy, you know, Like, they're going to have a fun, like, little brother, you know? Like, that was, like, right up there my thoughts.

And it's true, like, now they be able to walk and stuff. They're, like, wrestling. They're playing with each other. If we left them in a room for a couple hours, like, they would just be fine hanging out with each other and doing stuff, you know. Which I love, you know, they're not, they don't need, you know, TV or crazy electronics and they're still young. You know, so I'm learning a lot about what it's like to be back, you know, in that little kid mindset, you know, and they learn. and they pick up words. I got to watch out.

Like, I can't curse in front of them, right? Like, I got to watch these things. You know, they pick up on this stuff. Actually, my son, this is really funny. Last night, I don't know why. Like, whenever, like, my wife, like, bends over, like, sometimes our pants are a little bit lower. And my son thinks it's hilarious to go there and try and, like, touch her butt. Yeah.

It drives her mad. Like, it's, like, so infuriating to her. But last night, he did it. And when she turned around, he said, hot candy. And I was like, hot candy. Where did you hear this? And why did you associate that with the butt? You know?

Yeah. It's crazy. The things that these kids think about, you know? Like, even the other day, like, we're like learning to, like, potty train. And, like, like, the pee didn't want to come out, you know? And so he just looked at me. So I guess the pee wants to sleep in my penis tonight. You know?

It's like, oh, my gosh. Like, why would you? Like, how do you even come up with this stuff? Sometimes I'm like, oh, didn't want to go to sleep. I wanted to go out, you know? So they are, I mean, they are just, they are just fascinating, I guess is the perfect word for especially little kids. You know, I ask me when they're teenagers. I don't know.

But right now they're like cute little fascinating creatures. I think that's why they make them so cute because they take all your money. That's my theory. I track my money. I don't know if you remember this. Yeah, the baby tracker. The baby tracker. I tracked from the second we used what are those things called?

Like when you find out if you're pregnant, that little stick thing. Oh, yeah, the little stick, the pregnancy stick thing. Yeah, like that was like the first charge that we tracked. I think all the way up until he was a year and a half. And then once we had the second, we knew we were going to have the second kid, I was like, I'm not tracking it and dividing up the cost and trying to figure out where the, you know, where the money, you know, is going to. Yeah.

Categorizing one is baby number one and the other is baby number two. Yeah. Yeah, that's just too much. Yeah, with the food and everything, like, I don't know what they're, which ones can eat one. And it's just, you know, it was a lot.

I mean, because we had to take care of the kids. But yeah, so we spent $28,185 on just, just our first kid. And I'll tell you how it breaks down here. So, and that was in 29 months total from pregnancy.

Okay. So about 1,000 a month? Yeah. And so before the birth, It costs us about $3,000, like doctor visits, getting stuff ready, you know, like you need a crib. You need all these things that you don't normally have, right? It sounds like a lot of money, and obviously it is a lot of money because if we didn't have kids, we have, you know, probably 50 grand invested now, right?

But there are some of these that some people aren't going to have, which is really good. So, like toys for the first year and a half total, like it was like 300 bucks. That's nothing. Clothes, only 600. A lot of the stuff we got donated. Sometimes I'd like splurge on like a shirt for 10 bucks or something. Yeah. Diapers, we didn't go the cloth route.

I know that's a whole. There's all like all these little debates on which is better and cheaper and better for the environment. So like that's a whole other. I don't get involved in anything. Diapers, we spent $1,100 total. So diapers was big. Home and furniture stuff. So like drawers and I don't know what else is in here.

1100. Food is at 1,300. So food's expensive, but still, like, again, this is after the babies a year and a half. Right. Yeah. And then college savings was 3,000 that we started for. So that normally might not be in there for people. Supplies.

I think this is a whole bunch of random stuff was 1800. So the big boys were two. We're medical. And our insurance was probably like average. So it wasn't good. It wasn't bad. It was $7,000. And, man, these little.

kids, especially in daycare, they get sick all the time because they're passing around all kinds of nonsense. So we were like constantly in, you know, doctors. And then daycare, and this again is just like a one-year-old. And this is only like six months of daycare something was $11,000. Wow. Last year we spent, I think, $20,000 just on daycare for two kids. That's a lot of freaking money, right? So, and so that the daycare really is the biggest thing. And obviously there's a tradeoff, right? Like, right now, my wife's looking for jobs. She finished her. We had them in daycare so that I could work full time and that my wife could finish her PhD. Two things that were somewhat important, right? Right. So I have to continue to work because I'm the only one bringing

money so I can't watch them. And no one ever dare say like work while you're watching kids. It's not possible, especially a baby. It's like that's one thing that everyone told me, oh, you can work while they're sleeping. No way in hell. Yeah, that's ridiculous. I mean, like people say that shit to me all the time. They're like, oh, you work from home. So like, that would be great when you have kids. And I'm like, let's think about that logically. Does anybody suggest that you bring your children to the office? Yeah, that's exactly. Exactly. That's what you have. That's the same comparison, right? Even if they're sleeping in the office, even if it's true, you can work for an hour or two hours and still be productive. Yeah. That's still not eight hours or 10 hours or however hours are hustling.

Exactly. That's all you can do in the morning and night. That's true. But like, remember, too, with kids, especially babies, like you're mentally and physically exhausted. They are a lot of of work, you know. So, so it's not even like just time only. It's also like the energy that mental bandwidth. Yeah. So yeah. So now my wife now is, she finished her degree, looking for jobs. And so she's watching the kids. We pulled them out. So we're saving around 2000 a month having the kids out of daycare now, which is great for the wallet. The kids like haven't gotten sick in like five months. Like they are flourishing. You know, they're playing with each other. We're getting to know them better. There's like tons of pros.

and cons to both ways. So now they're here, which is saving money. But at some point, right, like this is a decision like, well, if we had more kids, then, like, you know, there's like that financial problem too versus also like how you want to raise your kids. But if you get a job, it has to at least cover daycare and more or what's the point financially, you know, unless you're trying to advance your career. You know, there's like a whole bunch of variables into, right? And that's like another hot topic that people like, well, you should, your kids are only going to be young one,

like you need to stay home with them. Like that's the right thing to do. Like you don't, your career second, blah, blah, blah. But like these are all nice in theory, but in real life,

you know, it's a little different depending on who you are. Yeah. I mean, and that's one of those things. So like, okay,

that argument of like, oh, your kids are only going to be little ones. You should stay home with them. But on the other hand, okay, first of all, people normally say that to women.

Like most people, I don't know what your experience is. That's true. Yeah. But most people don't like guilt dads about, going to work. Right.

So why the double standard? Like, why are women held to a different standard than men? Yeah. Man, people, like, I feel like, like, usually it comes down to, like, I thought I knew how it was going to be. My wife thought, like, some people think we know. Like, even you, you might have a vision. Like, if you have kids one day, like, how you think you're going to be.

Yeah. But not until they're there, are you like, okay, wow. Like, like, some people are like, I'll never stay at home, no way in hell. I'm career advancing. I'm moving up the ladder. I'm awesome. They have kids and I'm done. All I want to do is spend time with my kids.

Like, I know like two people like that. And it's like, wow, like they just completely change. It just changed your life, right? Right. Others, I know like, yeah, I want to stay at home. Like my wife was like, well, maybe I could do that. I'm not sure. And now, like, after four months, she's like, oh, I'm ready to go back in the workforce.

Yeah. Love them. They're getting along great. But like she misses. And she's also been out of the workforce for like six or seven years getting the degree and everything. And every time we had a kid, like it prolonged it. So, like, she's been out.

out longer so she misses and you know she wants to have her own thing and with adults right you know and you know you could be a blogger and you know we could like team up and do all this she's like no that's your thing right like it's more of like a finding yourself independence kind of thing in general yeah yeah exactly so like we appreciate having the kids we're soaking it in and at some point they are going to go back to daycare you know depending on where and how much and all that but yeah so it's a you know I think that's like the best thing I can leave with people is like just like appreciate the pros of whatever situation you're in and it's going to change over time. But like it, you know, there's like goods and bad. It's never like all good or all bad, you know.

But but yeah, no, yeah, kids, I mean, they really, you know, like I think the one thing too that I've really noticed is that I'm more scared now. Not even financially. Like I got over the hump of like, oh my gosh, like I'm in charge of these kids. I need to make money. Right. But more like I'm afraid of something happening to me, especially, or to like my kids. You know, like I was afraid of death before, but like now I'm really afraid of it. You know, like the idea like I could buy a car or something.

And not even like financially because like we've insurance and all that. But like just that like they be left without dad. You know, like it, oh God, like I'm like tearing up like you and like thinking about. Like it's crazy because these are like your little kids and you're supposed to raise them and like, you know, teach them and love them, right? Yeah. I know a couple, they both have motorcycles, but they won't ride on the same motorcycle together.

Oh, man. Because they're like, if one of us dies, like we don't want our kids, we want at least either mom or dad to stay alive. Like, you don't want them to lose both. Hell yeah. Dude, I just had a family member two months ago get killed. He was like in his 20s in the motorcycle accident. It wasn't even his fault.

He's dead. Or anything. He was just starting out his life, man. You know, it's true. My uncle just died a couple weeks ago, motorcycle accident. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. He was just in America. And his daughter, my cousin, was pregnant. She just had a baby, like, recently. And so he was going to, because he's like older, he's retired. So he was like, this is awesome. I'm going to, like, move to America and become a full-time grandpa. Oh. And then, like, as she was pregnant and he was just, like, sitting, waiting around with nothing to do. He was like, okay, I'm bored.

I'm going to go back to Nepal, just hang out with some friends for a couple months, wait until the baby's born, right? So he goes back to Nepal, gets killed in a motorcycle accident. Oh, my gosh. I can't even. And that's the thing. So, like, when you're single, right? Or even married, right?

Like, when you don't have kids, I guess, like, you have more, I don't want to say freedom to, like, do whatever you want. Like, you do. You can, anyone can do anything to want no matter what, right? But, like, once kids came in, at least for me, like, I stopped. doing a lot of the stuff that I really, really want to do. Like, I would love to own a motorcycle and travel up and down the coast, right? Like, even, like, cigars.

I haven't smoked a cigar in two years, like, because I'm deathly afraid of it, like, giving me cancer and killing me, but I love them. And the only reason I'm not doing it is because of my kids. Like, I don't want to, like, have, like, it was my fault that that happened. Right. You know? And I, oh, man, like, even, like, being around people smoking, like, I've never smoked a cigarette, cigars and beer are the only two, like, vices.

Right? Even beer, like I'll have one, next like two or three. I said that like FinCon conference, you know, all that stuff. Yeah. So I get drunk like once a year rather than once a weekend. You know, I actually know I had an editor. My newspaper editor started eating a lot healthier after his daughter was born. Oh, yeah.

Yep. Good point. He was like, I don't want to die of a heart attack when my daughter's like 10. Yeah, that's a good point. So for us, we just our eating habits got better. Like, we would work and hustle or my wife would be studying. And we wouldn't eat dinner to like 11, sometimes 12 at night. you know, and we snack during the day.

And so with kids, like, everything is very schedule-based. Like, if you want, like, generally happy, like, kids like to know kind of what to expect at certain times, they behave better. Yeah. There's certain times where we eat breakfast and where we have dinner or lunch and then dinner. And then, like, we have this system. Right. So we started feeding them at 6 o'clock every night, 6 to 7.

Going from 6 to 7 to, like, midnight is, like, a huge difference, you know? So it took a few months to adjust. So now we eat together, like, as a family. and we're trying to get them to experiment, eating and stuff. And because my wife never cooked before, and now she cooks, because now we want healthy food in our kids, you know, and we want to be healthy ourselves, but we just didn't pay attention as much until the kids came, you know. So you're right.

I never even thought about that. But yeah, our eating's better, our sleeping's better. A lot of stuff is better because of them, you know, because that's the thing. Like, you really just want to make sure, like, you're providing as much, like, love and support and kind of, like, structure. so they don't have to worry about anything. And like I love like every day like when I leave there, I'm going to go in my work office or my kids going to go out and play.

Like I always make sure like your job today, like I tell them every morning, your job today is to play and have fun. You know, that's it. That's all you have to do, you know, because I don't want them worrying about anything, you know. And I remember like even when like our kid, when our first one was born and like we were leaving, I asked the nurse, I said like give me like some advice here.

Like I have like nothing. You know, like I've never changed a diaper yet. I mean the nurses do it. I wouldn't even want to do it at first. And she just looked and she just said like, just love them. Like you can't love them enough. You know, just keep doing it. You can't over love them.

And that's like the only thing that like sticks to my head, you know. So like I don't know what to do. I'll just love them. You know, and babies too. Like we're just getting out of the baby stage. So like that world versus little kids and, you know, toddlers and teens. They're way different worlds. So I'm not sure how it's going to be then.

but I know now like, you know, it's just paying attention to them, focusing, loving them, and, you know, trying to make sure that they're generally happy, you know. Yeah. So, yeah, they change your life, man, for good and bad sometimes. So what do you think about the argument? We kind of brought this up in the real estate episode that we did. There are some people who say, well, I have to live in a house because I have a kid. Oh, yeah.

What do you think of that? I think it's a lot easier to live with more space with kids. Comfort levels and just generally like normalcy. Like having kids have their own rooms, like it makes more peace. That being said, like, no, you can have a kid. I mean, shit, like people have kids in the ghettos and third world countries all over the place in streets and like 30-door room, you know. Right.

Like you don't have to have a house. Like it's definitely a choice just like with a lot of stuff we talk about with money, right? Like whether you live in a, you know, a trailer or a mansion, you know, it's like a personal choice for the for our audience. Obviously not for everyone. Right. But for like, you know, middle class, like people that are reading and we're talking to. Like all this stuff is pretty much in your choice, in your control. Right.

You know, like I think over the years, once I start having kids and just really stumbled across the online world, like I've been more into like minimalism and early retirement and like kind of. of, I mean, like into like composting no waste stuff now, right? Like my, where I was like four years ago to now, mentally is like way different. And the only reason I say that is because for me, I would take the risk of living like in an RV with my kids or like a one bedroom apartment. A for money, but I'm like really, I'm really into like this challenging how simple you can make life be, you know, like the whole minimalism thing. Like a tiny house movement. Tiny house. I would live in a tiny house of them or two or three in a little circle or something? I don't know. Like, I want to experiment and see once in fall if I could do it. But when you're married and then

when you also have kids, it's not just you, right? So like, would my kids be happier? You know, I don't know. Maybe most people would say probably not. You know, would my wife, like, no way she's been adamant. We're not doing that, right? You wait until they're out of there, you know, or the kids are older or whatever. So I think it just really comes down to preference in how much, I guess uncomfortableness, you kind of want to make it. And I remember you said in that podcast, like you love, you know, or I don't know if you love it, but you are totally okay living in an apartment with your family, right? Yeah, yeah.

So when we, when I was born, we had just recently immigrated to America. I was technically born in Nepal, but my parents, I was adopted. Okay, a little bit of background for the listeners. I was adopt. I was my adoptive dad and my biological dad are brothers. Hmm. I was my adoptive parents. who are by blood my uncle and aunt.

They moved to America in 1977. And I was born in Nepal to, as the child of my illegal uncle and aunt. Okay. This is, I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be. I think I'd be adopted. That was enough to get a picture. Okay, yeah, anyway. So I was born there, but then I came, when I came to America, my parents are,

my adoptive parents, have had already been in the U.S. for a few years when, and during that time, my dad was going to graduate school. And so they were brand new to the country. Like, they were just getting started. They were in their early 40s. They were just graduating for the first time and getting their very first jobs in U.S. dollars for the first time. So, yeah, so, I mean, we were, we were starting at that, like, new immigrant level. So when I was really little, we lived in, like, just some shitty little apartment. I don't really remember it. And then my dad, eventually, he actually, he didn't have enough money for a down payment on a house. So his department head, he was a, he taught at the University of Cincinnati, and his department head actually loaned him the money to make a down payment on a house.

Wow. And did you get the house just to be more secure and safe for you, for you kids or for you? Is it just you? Yeah, it's just me. Okay. So, and let me look at what I'm trying to look up on Zillow right now, because it was like such a modest house, too. You try to look at the value of it? Yeah, I'm totally doing that right.

now. So in 2003, this house sold for $123,000. Oh, my Lord. Yeah. Well, back then it was like $15,000 or something. Yeah, so we're talking like a shitty little house, you know. But he probably, he wanted probably to give you security and build the foundation of a family and all that, I'd imagine. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. But, you know, like for me, from my perspective, at least as a kid, it didn't, you know. Yeah, Yeah, you don't, it doesn't matter. Yeah, like, I'm happy, like, I'm happy banging a spoon into a pot. Yeah. Hey, we just did that yesterday.

So it still was very exciting for kids. Yeah, well, when you said to necessity versus, like, what you want, right? Like, most people would probably, like, want a bigger house in a nice yard, right? Like, that whole thing, which is fine, you know, but if you need, you know, but you don't need it, right? It's, like, the same with everything. Like, depending on what your dreams and your goals are. Yeah. Like, that's, that's, that's, the kids, it does throw it for a loop, but like, you just adjust, right?

Yeah. Like, I'm trying to, like, get in small, like, we have a pretty small house now in my standards. Um, it's only two bedrooms. And so, like, like, my baby sleeps in my office and my son is upstairs in, in his own room. But my wife wants more space. Like, especially being at home, like, she feels cramped. Whereas I, I don't feel cramped, but, like, we're obviously different people. And so, like, you know, and I would say, like, I guess, like, like, kind of the conveniences

to having more space is like when one of them is sick, like you're separated more. If anyone in the family is sick for that matter, like it's easy to like separate yourself. And also especially with babies, like they cry all the time, you know? And if you get one kid sleeping and the next one's wailing and the other one's awake and then they're both upset,

like it just become, there's like miserable nights. So the nice thing about having the extra space is just being able to like minimalize like the damage to you like emotionally and like physically. Yeah. So there's pros and cons either way, right? But like, I tell my wife, like, if we could, like, retire a quote, like, we could not need money. We never have to earn money again, but we live in, like, a trailer park, right?

Like, but you don't have to live anywhere again. Would you do it? And the first response is, no, like, I don't want to live in a tiny trailer, you know? And so, like, whereas I think of the freedom, she thinks of, like, the inconvenience, you know? And so it's interesting as years go by, like, I'm getting farther and farther into, like, this minimalism weird land. and she's really not. And everything I'm reading is like, hey, like, just, you know, maybe they'll pick up on your actions over time, right? Like, start doing changes.

Don't try and get them to change, but maybe they'll pick up on it. They're not picking up on it. So I don't know what you do. You know, so. One of the, like, one of the things that kind of drives me crazy a little bit is when I, when readers will say, because what you're talking about Jay Money is like, it's all about choice, right? You could live in a trailer. Plenty of people do live in like third world slums and have children.

Of course. So it boils down to choice. Yes. And I hear from so many readers who are like, I really want to be a real estate investor. You know, and I'm like, oh, okay, start out by buying a multi-unit property. Like buy like a duplex. Live in one of the units and rent out the other one. Right.

And that'll be your first like $500 in passive income. income. And they're like, well, I can't do that because I have kids. Yeah. And I'm like, well, I know that far as you off. I wish you had kids just so you can like double empathize. Because here's the thing. It's like, okay, let's talk about how much work do you have to do to make an extra $500 a month, right? Right. And so let's say, let's say that you make 40 bucks an hour. all right so 500 a month is that's an extra so let's say you can stop working an extra 12 hours per month I remember taxes and all that stuff yeah yeah okay so and then taxes and all of that so all right 15 hours oh but you would get taxed on your $40 income also so then it would roughly even out

you know so like let's say by making that extra 500 a month you've now replaced 12 hours of work so that's an extra 12 hours that you have with your kids you know, like that's like the balance that you kind of have to think about, but most people don't think that way. Most people are like, oh, I want a yard, you know? Yeah. And like, and the part that like also I can't wrap my head around is like, I'm not saying live in a duplex forever. I'm saying live there for one year just so you can qualify for that mortgage. Right.

And then after one year, you can move out and move back into the home you're living in right now, you know, or in some other. home. So we're talking about one year. We're not talking about forever. And with one year of suffering, quote unquote suffering, now you have an extra $500 that's coming in in perpetuity for the rest of your life, you know, that you can use to like build your kids college fund or pay for that health insurance bill or, you know, just reduce your workload. Yeah. Well, and I think, I mean, that touches on a couple things. One, like, instead of saying, like, I can't do that. It's not. Anyone can do it. So you just, you don't want to do that. Yeah. So that's obviously the first thing. And then the second is like, you don't care, you don't want the $500 as much, you know, which is fine, right?

Like, you don't want to, I mean, that's a problem with like average people out there, right? Like, they know how to make millions. They know how to lose weight. They know how to quit smoking, like, all this stuff. Everyone knows how to do it. Yeah. I mean, I cringe to some of my own articles. Oh, you know how to save money?

Just spend less than you earn. Boom, done forever. You know, that's all it is. People know, people are smart enough. Right. It's just they don't care enough or they don't think they can do it, right? One of the other. Yeah.

That's actually an excellent point. Yeah, because like, yeah, I mean, it's perfectly fine to say, like, oh, okay, I've considered, do I want an extra 500 passive dollars in perpetuity? Or do I want a larger house? Correct. And I've weighed both of those options and I've chosen that I would like a larger house. Perfect. That's a perfectly fine statement.

Yes. And that's what it comes down to with everything in life. It's the using the kids as an excuse. Yeah, it is. as an excuse to say, well, I can't. My hands are tied and I cannot do this because of the children. That's an excuse. And granted, if the excuses were valid down to like non-valid, I as a parent would say,

that's a pretty valid excuse. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but that's like I can understand, I guess, because I have kids. Like for me, like my excuse is traveling for two reasons. One, like just the idea of having screaming kids in a plane for a long time, like I can't fathom it, you know? And so like I always stay to myself, like, you can't travel as much because you have kids, right? Plenty of people do all over the world. And then the second one is like, well, I guess that's really all it is. And it breaks up the routine too. And the

routine is, you know, obviously you can't have a routine every single day. But like, I weigh the pros and cons. I'm like, you know what? Like, I don't think it's in the cards at this stage, maybe when they're a little bit older and they can talk, for example. So that's like my excuses and me validating. But at least I think about it. it first. But I, but what I hear you saying isn't, you're not saying you can't. You're saying you don't want to. Right. Or that you choose not to. Or like I would drive 10 hours instead of being in a plane for five hours. Like that's right. I choose that. I'm more comfortable that way. Yeah. Heck, I choose that even now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's the same thing too.

is, yeah, even like, like, going out, right? Like, like, the one, I think the one part that suffered, it's helped and both suffered is my wife and I, like, we were, like, always doing stuff together. And, like, we're always going out together, right? And so now we're always with our kids all the time. And so there's very limited amount of just one-on-one with just my wife and I. Yeah. And we have some time at night, you know, but now that I, like, have this weird Benjamin Franklin's schedule.

Like, like, that's, like, a little off now. And we'll try date nights and stuff. And it's just, like, it just changes a lot, right? So there's like goods, but then it's like, hey, don't forget, like, you have this relationship with your wife, you know? So you have like your partner relationship, your kids, each of them, however many have is a whole relationship. And then you have your work relationship. And then you have your personal relationship. That's a lot.

Back of the day, it was just like one. You just, you just care about yourself, which is fine. And honestly, if I can go back in time, I would say keep being selfish like to that degree, right? Like do all these things that you hope and dream and love and want to do because things change as you get older. right you know like I I think I traveled and we were in the military family so I traveled a lot and I worked for the airlines so I could travel for free anywhere on the world so like I traveled my ass off I miss it a lot right now I miss it a lot but like I'm so glad that like I did a lot of those things even though it like was bad for like finances you know at the time yeah and that's a choice too right

like do what I have would I rather have an extra hundred grand over the years but what if I had to wipe away all the memories of all the traveling like I wouldn't do it. Right. And traveling, some people don't care about. So maybe it's like baseball cards or whatever like your hobby is. You know, it doesn't have to be travel, of course. And kids change that too, right? Like now kids become like your not hobby. It's like your responsibility. But you can't do all that stuff that you did before. And you can. But it just comes with a lot of different, you know, set of rules, I guess, or variables. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say for the listeners who are interested in traveling with kids, there's a podcast call, the family.

adventure podcast. This entire podcast is like interviews with families, like people with children who are traveling and like who have made travel kind of the centerpiece of their life. A lot of them are like hardcore travelers and they'll go on like six month or eight months trips like their kids. And a lot of them will road school their kids. And so road school is movement. It's kind of like homeschooling. Instead of being at home, you're on the road. And then every time you go somewhere, like you go to Australia, you've got this instant, it's like the ultimate field trip. So you've got this instant, all these instant lessons about history and geography and geology and all of that that's like built in because your kids are naturally going to be curious.

So like you use that as a teaching tool. Hell yes. And I'll tell you like even listening to you speak, I'm like, yes, yes, I want to do that. I want to go to Australia right now and do that with my kids. Yeah. I'm glad you said that because I don't know. I've never researched it online, but now at least I know I can go and listen to the podcast. So like that stuff is really good because that obviously shows it is possible.

Now I will say like there's a lot of variables even in that, right? Like A, like there's the whole debate on whether you should homeschool someone or not. That's a whole other thing. You have to be good with having less stuff to travel everywhere. So that's like one big thing. You have to have both jobs or one job that lets you work or whatever, right? So there's like all these different variables that go into it. If you can put them all together and mastered or at least risk it and challenge it,

I give you mad, mad respect for that because that is hard to do. And so like I've gotten the work from anywhere part down. You know, I've got the kids part down. So now I got that, you know, I got the travel bug, right? Financially could I do it? I don't know. Better than I could before. But the missing link is like, does this what the family wants or, you know?

And that's the thing with kids too. So I actually do agree that. So I mean, obviously, like, I was in the military family. So I moved every two years. Like, I probably lived in 25, 30 different cities or places. And I'm 35 now. And so I learned a lot. And it changed my, like, culture.

I was all around the world. It changed, like, the way I interact with people. You know, that I was really shy. And that helped me be a little bit more outgoing. You know, I, like, found myself more, you know. But on the other hand, like, I have a brother and sister. And some of them, like, it didn't do the same thing for them. You know, like, like, some of them like the stability and like being at home for once.

You know what I'm saying? So there's a lot of, like, personalities. I mean, you know, like, with money, right? It's all, it's all based on how you are as a person, how you feel about things, and then what you're trying to go after. I mean, that's really all it is. And then there's the stuff that happens to you in life that are shitty or awesome that, like, distract you or, like, screw you, you know?

Yes, you can do a lot with kids. You just have to make the choice if it's worth the hassle or the risk. Yeah. And I'm learning. I mean, I'm home to dad for three years. And I think it's finally hit me like a couple weeks ago that I'm a dad. I was like, oh, wow. You know, like this is, it's weird like when you're first heard like, like, oh, are you the father of so and so? You're like, oh, my gosh, I'm a father. You know, like, I feel so young. I feel so old to me. You know, like, I'm growing out my beard for like the first time pretty much in my life. And like there's all these little gray hairs in there. I'm like, where the hell did those things come from? You know, those are not there before kids, you know, at least I don't know, I never grew my hair out, but, you know, and I think a funny thing with kids, for me, back to the schedule, right? So I'm going with the flow, do whatever, travel, all that stuff, right? That was my life. There was no, there was even job wise.

Like, blogging is a longest job I've had in my entire life, you know, and that were after like, I hit year three, that was the longest job ever, you know? And I mean, like, year seven now. So like, now I lost my train thought because I'm thinking of my beard and my gray hair. Oh, man. I don't know what we're talking about, but. Blogging, longest job you've had in your life. Oh, the schedule. I happen to do the schedule.

So, like, I tell my brother, so my brother's like a bachelor. He's always going on dates. He's looking for the right one. And I'm like, oh, man, like, enjoy this freedom and all this. And I know it gets old, right? Like some people, like, you do want to find people, you know, and all that kind of stuff. And start a family or whatever. And so I tell him, like, and he's always at bars or like dates, right?

So sometimes I'll text him at 7 o'clock and I'll say, it's dinner time. You have to come home right now and watch your kids and put him to bed and give him a bath. And then you can go back out at 9, you know? And he's like, oh, my God. Like, no, I'm in the middle of something fun. I'm like, sorry you've got kids, you know. And like that one thing to me, like, that was like a shock. Like every night I have to feed them, you know, and bathe them every single night.

Right. That was like mind blowing to me. Like I couldn't even, it's just, you know, And again, if you're doing the schedule thing, and some people don't do that stuff, but every night of seven, no matter what I'm doing, where I'm at, how happy or sad I am, I'm with my kids, right? And that's like a big change when you're used to doing anything in the world at any time. Right. And again, like, there's people like you're talking about that travel around that maybe not might not have some of these schedules, which is fine. Yeah.

But for, yeah. I don't know. Maybe they do. Maybe. You know, like you could. Yeah. No reason you couldn't do that like in Australia. Sure.

You know. Okay. kids, we're going to be here for three months. And this is exactly what we're going to do every day. Yeah. No, you're right. You're totally right. Like, it's funny, the things that, like, concern you or like, you're like, well,

I didn't like, I don't know. Every time I texted my brother back, he's like, you don't need to say anything else. I get it. Like, I'm enjoying myself. Because you do lose freedom. Like, you do. Like, there's no way around it, right? Like, it just changes.

Or you can still have your freedom, but you have to suffer the consequences, right? Like, like, when I see you, like, you're traveling, like, to, like, Ecuador and all over the world burning man right yeah okay i said yes i want that how do i get that well i could take my kids everywhere but there's a little hassle there so is it worth it probably not that's a lot of travel and i don't know like i'm not at that stage yet right yeah or i can go by myself awesome i have freedom i can party but now my wife is with them and i feel bad for traveling everywhere leaving my kids behind right so like there's all these things that you then have to weigh and then it's like am i selfish for doing this like am i my my screwing over my my partner

You know, there's like all these variables. And me, like, I've gone like more emotional with kids. So like the thought of like missing stuff is like, you know, like I'm just, I guess I'm like, I don't travel as much and stuff because I want to, I just want to be there with them. And I also want to help my life a lot. Yeah. You know. So like, so that's like a sacrifice that I can't do these other things I normally would do. Yeah.

Right. And so and some people, right, there's great dads that like can manage all. There's some horrible dads that like don't give a shit and do. just still go out, party, drink, and don't even care about the kids. Right. And then there's, you know, so there's like all kinds of dads out there. And, you know, I wouldn't, if someone said like, you're going to travel like once a year only when you have kids, I'm like, no way, I'm not having kids.

But like, that's the reality now. But I'm a different person now, right? And that's just in general, you know, business, life, everything. It's funny that you bring up Burning Man, actually, because one thing I've noticed over the, because I've been going for 10 years. Oh, wow. I've seen the change. between 2005 and 2015.

And like nowadays, there are a lot more kids there than there were 10 years ago. Tons. Wait, how old are you talking? You're not talking about babies, right? No, they're actually my good friends of mine, Corey and Jessica. They brought like a baby, like a straight up crawling in the dust. She couldn't even walk yet, baby. Holy moly.

You know, and of course for them, like their experience at Burning Man was based around her eating and sleeping schedule. Right. So it's not like they could go out. Like they're at Burning Man, but like, you know, they're... I imagine the babysitters are a little busy at hurting head doing stuff that maybe your kid doesn't need to look at or something. Well, unfortunately, kids like, you know, they don't understand nuance, you know. So, like, they just understand that people are like smiling and laughing and talking to them. Yeah.

And there's probably a lot of those there. Yeah, there's a lot of smiley people there. So, you know, that's great. And it's cool, actually, because people are. are like Corey was out with his daughter this one day and like there were these four because people at Burning Man do all kinds of crazy shit. So like there were these four people who were all dressed as bananas walking down the street. Like his kid loved that, you know? Yeah, kids love bananas.

It's actually in many ways like kind of a perfect playground. It's a playground for adults. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So it's like totally. And then you'll see the kids there and there's kids of all ages. And you'll see the kids who are like kind of between five to nine. And like they're like old enough to start interacting with things. Or especially like at eight or nine, they're like,

they're definitely old enough to like really be interactive. You know, and so like there will be like, you know those balance beams. Like there'll be like a balance beam where people have like foam weapons. And then they're like battling each other and who falls off the balance beam first. Like the other one's the victor. Right. And at Burning Man, like it's totally socially. acceptable for like a five-year-old to go up against a grown-up.

And it's so interesting to watch that happen because there will be some grown-ups who like will let the kid win. And then there are other grown-ups who would just like knock the kid right off. Like no one's taking me down. Awesome. And it's just so much fun to watch and to like to watch the grown-up get up there. And like if the victor keeps battling until the victor goes, you know, gets knocked off. So the grown-up will like battle a bunch of other grown-ups.

ups, you know, so then it's like men battling men and men battling women. And then the men's battling like a five-year-old, you know? Oh my gosh. It's just, it's cool to see. It's like it adds to the Burning Man experience to like to have that diversity and to watch all of those people interact. Like it just, it makes the, the community more of a community. Right, right. Yeah, I give them bad respect for doing that. That's like, yeah, that's like way out of comfort zone for me. But like, I want to like get closer to like uncomfortable in that way, you know. Like you said, like any of this stuff is possible with kids, it's just a different type of stuff. So I'm going to write this Burning Man down on a list of future ideas for podcasts.

I like that. I don't know anything about Burning Man just from like what you see in the media. So, you know, which I'm sure is skewed. But yeah, that's fascinating. Awesome. Well, I think we talk a lot on kids and life and money. What do you say? Yeah.

I think we've been going on for a while. Yeah. There's anyone listening left. I know, right? So for the sake of the listeners, we totally intended. for this to be like a 30 to 40 minute podcast and we seem to keep going to like an hour plus. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know. Like honestly, like I've never really podcast. I don't even listen to podcast to be honest with you. So like this all like rather need to be. I've been on the

interviewed but never hosted one. So I think we like to talk a lot. So you like it. Great. If not, let us know. I guess it's either way just so we can try and make it better. Yeah, for sure. Cool. So thanks, Jay, Money. Yeah. Thanks for all the awesome questions and making me cry. I'm going to go hug my kids now and you get off. Aw. We'd like to thank our sponsors. Nobody. We don't have any sponsors, but we would like to thank you for listening,

because if you weren't, we'd just be talking to ourselves, and that would be weird. If you liked us, please do the following three things. Number one, subscribe to this show on iTunes. Number two, download as many episodes as you'd like. And number three, leave us an iTunes review. If you'd like to know more about us, check out themoneyshow.co. That's themoneyshow.c-o.