Afford Anything - How to Command Respect at Work, with Tracy Tutor

Episode Date: December 22, 2020

#291: Tracy Tutor is the author of Fear is Just a Four-Letter Word as well as the first female real estate broker on Million Dollar Listing LA. Tracy took her 20 years of experience in the industry and distilled the lessons she learned into this book. During our conversation, she shares tips and tactics for overcoming a fear of speaking out, how humor can help us connect with others, and why it’s important not to silence our inner voices. For more information, visit the show notes at https://affordanything.com/episode291 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You can afford anything but not everything. Every choice that you make is a trade-off against something else, and that doesn't just apply to your money. That applies to your time, your focus, your effort, your attention, anything in your life that is a scarce or limited resource. Saying yes to something implicitly means that you're saying no to other alternatives, and that opens up two questions. First, what matters most?

Not what does society say ought to, but what actually matters most in your own life? Second, how do you align your decision-making on a daily, weekly, monthly, annual basis to reflect that which matters most? Now, answering these two questions is a lifetime practice, and that is what this podcast is here to explore. My name is Paula Pan. I am the host of the Afford Anything podcast, and today, Tracy Tutor joins us to talk about

how to overcome fear, how to deflate big egos that you have to deal with in the course of the work and the investing that you do. and how to project confidence in even the most intimidating of circumstances. Tracy is the first female real estate broker on million dollar listing LA. Throughout her career, she's had to deal with plenty of conflict. She's had to deal with outsized egos. And she has had to land increasingly high-profile deals in a very competitive world. And time and time again, she has been in situations where she, like almost anyone, would be freaked out

by these high-stakes situations. That's normal. So she wrote a book called Fear is Just a Four-letter Word to talk about how to deal with feeling intimidated when you are in a business setting or making an offer on an investment. And it's terrifying and it's scary and you're dealing with power plays and you need to take control of a situation, but you feel uncertain about yourself. She wrote about how to deal with that. And that's what we're going to discuss in today's upcoming interview.

During our conversation, she'll be talking about how to overcome a fear of speaking up or speaking out, how to use humor in order to make better connections with others, and why it's important not to silence our inner voices. Here she is, Tracy Tudor. Hi, Tracy. Hi, Paula. How are you? I'm excellent. How are you doing? I'm doing really good. Thank you for asking. So, Tracy, you wrote, I mean, you wrote a book about fear, but really it's about so much more. than that. It's about expressing yourself, being assertive while still staying on people's good

side. It's largely a book about, as I see it, interpersonal dynamics. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a book about interpersonal dynamics and sort of navigating not only your personal life, but your business life and your career dealing with egos oftentimes when we're, you know, climbing the ladder of success and trying to, you know, push ourselves to achieve that, we're going to come across a lot of different types of dynamics and boardroom dynamics, I call them. And so there's a lot of different egos and there's personalities. And it's about sorting through that and figuring out a way to create that human connection between people. Before we get into some of the methods that you talk about in the book, one thing that struck me is

that dealing with personalities has shifted in 2020 now that we're having most of our meetings online. Some of the methods that people are accustomed to when connecting with others when you're in the same room don't have to change necessarily when you're across a screen. What are some of the big changes that you have observed now that meetings are virtual? Well, obviously, it's harder to connect with people digitally. It's harder to engage them and keep their attention. And, And so that was a whole new level for me of paying attention to when I am on a Zoom call or I am in a presentation or any kind of even meeting with my team. In order to keep everybody engaged, you have to be completely committed, you know, more so committed than you would be live. So it's a totally different set of skills that I think everybody has learned over the course of the last nine months is not.

not as easy as you might think. I think it's harder to win people over when you're not able to look them really square in the eye. And really, there's so many people that will do these types of calls and meetings where they don't show their faces. And so it makes it even more difficult to connect because you're easily distracted. So it's like a whole other element of winning someone over on a call versus being in a boardroom. What are some? tactics that help in that context? I mean, for me, it's about engaging people in the beginning, and I've often found that humor is a really great way to do that. I think, you know, back-to-back Zoom calls all day long is by Friday, at least according to my friends, and definitely

according to me, not something we get excited about because people aren't as engaging as we wish they all were. It would make, you know, what we're all going through right now a lot easier. So I've found that, you know, using humor is a huge piece of grabbing people's attention and focus in the beginning and what kind of humor is really up to you, whether it's self-deprecating or just general humor that everybody can relate to. I think that's a great way to grab people's attention. And then it's about engaging them and asking questions. You know, you lose people quite a bit on Zoom, as I mentioned before, particularly if people aren't on camera. I always think to myself, if they're not looking at you, it's because they're more than likely.

doing something else. So you really have to work to engage people even more if they're not on camera and you can't see that they're actually looking at you and engaged by the conversation. So those are just a couple of things that I've noticed and tried to make an effort to, you know, be very present and make sure that I also don't have any distractions. I never keep my phone out during a business or a Zoom call. I shut down my email completely. I don't want the dings happening. I don't want to glance over at an email and all of a sudden completely pulled from the conversation.

So those are just a couple of tips that I have that have helped. Does that change when there are many people on the call? How do you keep the entire group engaged when there are more than two people, more than three people? Paula, in case you haven't noticed, I like to talk. No, I mean, there's an element of performance when you're speaking to a larger group of people, you know, 175 thought, even more than 20, really. And you have to be prepared for that. You have to treat it like you're doing a monologue. You know, you're presenting something and trying

to keep people's attention. The beautiful thing about being on Zoom is if you do have bullet points that you can write down and have in front of you of areas that you want to make sure you're hitting, that you would never carry into a real boardroom, that's an advantage that you have by being on a call like that. And then, you know, you can have little reminders on your desktop that, you know, say, insert humor or take a beat, ask a question. When things get uncomfortable or you feel like you've been talking for too long without a break, you know, that's always a great place to do that. Another thing I would say is, you know, with these larger groups of people, oftentimes, you know, and I'm sure we all relate to this. We would talk about this earlier is, you know, when we're

working from home, which obviously I've done quite a bit of Zoom calls, particularly earlier on in the pandemic, we tend to not dress. And I do think that that brings a casual nature to the meeting. And so, you know, when you know you have a big presentation, I do recommend brushing your hair, putting on some makeup, you know, the sweatshirt you got out of bed in, take it off. Maybe we're in the shower, you know, challenge yourself a little bit to like, you know, feel good because I do think that there's something to be said for that. You know, when you walk into an important meeting or a presentation or a pitch, as much as we all like to feel comfortable and there is a percentage of us that can perform on that level, I do think it

elevates your own game to sort of act as if. And, you know, you can do that by dressing the part or making a little bit more of an effort to kind of get you in the headspace that while it is on Zoom and you're not in the room with these people, it doesn't make that meeting any less. important. We just treat it that way from time to time because we feel like one day this is all going to come to an end and we're all going to go back to normal. But the reality is we've been sitting in a lot longer than we anticipated. And everybody needs a job. Everybody needs to keep their job and we have to keep moving forward. So people do need to place a little more importance on, you know, engaging particularly with other people on Zoom when they're doing a pitch or a presentation

or a meeting or whatever. So a little behind the scenes here for everyone. So a little behind the scenes here for everybody who is listening to this interview right before we started recording. I told Tracy, I was like, I'm wearing no makeup, my hair's in a bun, and Tracy, I didn't tell you this, but I'm also wearing a sweatshirt. So I clearly have a ways to go before to get to that polished look that you inspire people to. I was laughing. This is what I was saying. If I didn't know if you were going to tell the story or not, but you're doing a podcast.

This is what your podcast is about. And so you get to get away with it more than the average person, but you also are very accustomed to being engaging or you wouldn't have a podcast because no one would listen to it. So there's just so many of us that don't operate from that space. And, you know, in order to interview someone for 30 minutes or an hour or be able to be engaging enough, there's not many of us out there that can do that or we'd all have a podcast just like you. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Flattery will get you everywhere. I'm very aware of that. Speaking of flattery, can you talk about some of the techniques that you use in order to engage people in and to warm them to your side, particularly at the beginning of this conversation

you mentioned that you often deal with people with large egos. How do you navigate that? Well, you know, it depends. I think, you know, taking into consideration, you know, there's people that are driven by ego and then there's, you know, incredibly successful people that have some humility to them. And those are two very very. distinct personalities and types of people. And I think that everybody can sort out, you know, who fits into what category. But for me, I think it's about really doing your diligence ahead of time on who it is that you're meeting with if you haven't met with them before and really sort of understanding who they are. I mean, we have Google for a reason. These are things that we didn't

have 30 years ago, you know, or 20 years ago in business. So it's like we have the opportunity to be so much more prepared because there isn't really a human that isn't online in some facet that you can't Google. And by the way, you shouldn't be meeting with them. If they're not on Google, they're more than likely a fraud, which has happened to me several times. So it's about doing your diligence, I think ahead of time, understanding a little bit about their personal life. If they're on social media, look at it. Who are they? Are they the type of person that has a blurry photo or two of their dog and the occasional holiday? photo or is it curated? These are the things that kind of give you some insight into who these people

are before you sit down with them. And then of course, you know, I always say when you get into the room, you know, make sure that your presence is known. Start with some sort of a joke. I often will use like some sort of self-deprecating humor because I think that's really relatable to a lot of people. I think it sets the tone for the meeting. And then after that, I do a lot of listening. What kind of mood are they in? You know, you want to establish that early on before you start immediately pitching your deck, right? Like we all go in. We're like, okay, presentation time. They're watching me. They're listening. Like, I've got to do my thing and I have 20 minutes to do it. I better start with my outline now. And it's like, no, there needs to be a tone set. And that tone is

only set by seeing the person across from you and looking at the mood that they're in. What maybe happen to them earlier that day. What happened to them that week? Did they get a promotion? If you know about it, congratulate them. And oftentimes, once you figure out what kind of mood they're in, then you can distinctly drive the meeting. And I think a lot of times people want to be around people and like people that are like them. So if you have sort of someone sitting across from you that's excitable, you should match that energy because they relate to that. That's something that they understand. And then once you sort of have them and you've engaged in some sort of personal connection, then you can start talking about whatever it is that you're there to speak about.

And I've found that that's just, it's a really much better way to engage someone personally before. Then they're more invested in what you have to say. You know, you mentioned some people have large egos and some people have reached a significant level of success while maintaining humility along the way. you also, in your book, you talk about a couple of other archetypes as well, including the insane creative and the fidgety distracted type of person. Can you talk about both of those archetypes and how to work with them when you're in a meeting with them? I mean, listen, I actually love the creative because I'm inspired by that. And that gets me thinking about things that I might not have thought about. I think the downside of an insane creative type is that they very easily can drive you off the track,

particularly with my personality, because I started as a creative and then I ended up going into business. And so I have that sort of theatrical personality myself. So I can get very caught up in someone who has incredible ideas and is thinking outside of the box. And then all of a sudden I've completely lost them and figured out what the goal for the meeting was. and all of a sudden it's gone because I got so invested in what they were talking about that we've lost sight of what we're actually there for. So that's the danger of, you know, being around someone that is intensely creative. You learn a lot from them, but you also have to be able to drive them back to the point. I have a client like that right now.

And a lot of times I all match his excitement about something that he's talking about because I actually am inspired by most things that he has to say. But then I will remind him that we're getting off track and we need to get back on track. You know, one time he got so excited about something that we were discussing that he kind of got up and started like pacing when I was talking about his idea and then ended up sort of at the front of the room. And this was in a conference room. So I knew that if I just continue to sit there, that he was going to dominate the space. And so I got up and I went to the front of of the room and I was talking to him about my ideas and all of a sudden we were on this equal playing field. I was still matching his excitement, but I was trying to guide him back to, you know,

what we were trying to accomplish in the meeting. It's a bit of a manipulation, but it works. The goal is you don't want someone walking away from the meeting and thinking to themselves, God, that was so much fun. I got to walk around and then, you know, a few hours later when they've had time to process, they'd come to the conclusion that you really didn't say a whole lot. You really talk about what you were. And then you're not the person that gets hired, right? So even though you want to match their creativity, their excitement, and their and their inspiration, you also have to make sure that you're driving them back to what you're there for because they will come off that excitement and they will, you know, they will sit down.

And that's the reason they're successful. And they will say, well, what do we really accomplish in that meeting? Oh, well, I actually ran that meeting and talked about everything I wanted to talk about. we didn't really hear from Tracy about why she was there. That's how I've dealt with the creative types, which was the other one you want to me to talk about? The distracted type, the fidgety type. Oh, God, they're tough. You know, everybody has a bad day. And particularly when you're interviewing for something, you know, you don't know where they were before you came into that office. You have no idea if they've already interviewed six people that were so annoying and you're number seven

and it's painful. They're tired. They're not looking to you square in the eye. I will completely talk about something different than the main, main points that I want to drive home because I know that those points are going to be lost on them. They're not focused. Their energy isn't focusing on me. So I will try to find some common ground. And that goes back to doing the diligence ahead of time on who the person is. If they're stuck in an office and it is an interview, And chances are it looks like they probably have something else on their mind. Sometimes a way to pull them out of that space is by talking about something more personal. Maybe you saw that they were at a soccer game or a baseball game.

Try to connect on that. Try to pull them out of that space as much as you can by connecting on a personal level rather than focusing on the task, which is to get the job or present your product or whatever business it is that you're in. achieve your ultimate goal. And then I will try to schedule a different meeting. I will say, you know, I'd love to take you to lunch at this particular spot and then try to reengage them and get them to commit to another time where you might be able to get them again and have them in a different space and have them in your space where they're walking into an energy in a space that you actually have

control over. It won't always happen. You won't always achieve it. But, you know, with those types of people, they're some of the most difficult to win over. We'll come back to this episode after this word from our sponsors. The holidays are right around the corner and if you're hosting, you're going to need to get prepared. Maybe you need bedding, sheets, linens. Maybe you need serveware and cookware. And of course, holiday decor, all the stuff to make your home a great place to host during the holidays. You can get up to 70% off during Wayfair's Black Friday sale.

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So you're lying on the floor? Save up the 50% November 13th to 20th. Conditions apply, details online. When you're dealing with someone, either the ego-driven archetype that you talked about earlier or the very enthusiastic creative, both of those strike me as the personality types that are likely to be speaking so much that it's hard to get a word in edgewise without interrupting. But at the same token, interrupting is rude. So how do you balance the need to be assertive and the need to get yourself heard while also not wanting to talk over them?

Well, I mean, listen, on some level, the ego-driven men that I've sat across from in a certain boardroom and women alike, they need to let themselves be heard. And sometimes letting the rant happen early in the meeting is your best case scenario. And this is what it comes down to instinct. Whenever you have a moment where you feel like you can chime in, you should. Because one-sided meetings, even with people that are driven by their egos and, you know, want that self-assurance and want it to be told they're fantastic, you have to interrupt them at some point. And whether that's kind of matching them and engaging them and, you know, cheering them on and then trying to drive the conversation in a different direction. But you have to chime in because, you know, most of the time those types of personalities can go on and on and on. And then, you know, in addition, I grew up around this, you can insert humor sometimes, particularly if you have someone that is incredibly intelligent. Ego has such a bad connotation associated with it. And sometimes it isn't unnecessarily a bad thing because you can have incredibly successful people that, are also very intelligent. And I think when you insert humor into places like that, it can kind of catch them off guard and chuckle. And, you know, I've done that before.

I mean, my own father has an ego that is quite large. And, you know, I've chimed in and popped off on conference calls with him quite a bit. It doesn't always work, but it definitely checks him. And I think that you can do that sometimes. Like, should we talk a little more about you or shall we talk about how? You know, there's ways to do it, and it does take practice and, you know, a little bit of balls candidly because, you know, not everybody when they're up for a job or a listing or anything want to challenge the person that potentially has the ability to shut them down, but at the same

time, if they are intelligent people and it's not solely just ego, most of the time, they'll find it amusing. And I do think that intelligence is a big part of that because they like to sit across people that challenge their point of view every so often. They might fight you back a little bit, but then again, they might not. They might fight a humorist or it might take them a second and then they might come back to you the following day. I'm sure there are some people who are listening to this right now who are wondering how they can develop that sense of humor if that's not something that they typically do. You know, you don't always have to be the funniest person in the room, but you do have to have a sense of humor and everybody has one. Like most people

don't want to throw out a joke, but that doesn't mean you can't bring humor to any situation by being light and not taking yourself so seriously. At the end of the day, people want to be surrounded by positive, interesting, dynamic people. So if you don't have the type of personality that is going to throw out the self-deprecating remark or, you know, be able to make a joke that might get the whole table to lighten up a little bit, particularly in an intense situation, then you can be the person that laughs at the other person that brings humor to this situation. I think you just have to be able to find that lightness in yourself because that's what ultimately connects all of us, right?

I mean, humor is very, very closely related to connection with other people. And that's something that everybody wants to be around. Let's talk about the opposite. We've been talking about humor and comedy and lightness. Let's go to the other side and talk about how to handle situations in which someone is just rude or somebody overshadows you. You have an example in your book of a dinner that you set up with a client who ended up essentially using you in order to get FaceTime with the other person. Yeah. that was a fun one. I had a very important high profile client that was selling some property

in Malibu in excess of a few hundred million dollars. And the buyer had approached me several days before. And I kind of instinctually knew that my meter was definitely red. And so I made an effort to kind of get to know the guy a little bit better. And two or three days later is when I just to finally put him in front of my client. And when we all sat down to dinner, I sat between them and attempted to guide the conversation. Now, the seller of this portfolio of property had an ego, like, nothing I've ever seen, to be honest with you, maybe the worst in my career that I've ever come across. And this buyer was also very dominated by his ego, although I could tell both of them were posturing and one-upping each other and taking jabs. And when I tried to insert myself to drive the

conversation back to really what we were trying to accomplish was, was there a deal to be made on the entire portfolio or at least on a few of the properties of the portfolio? Then they both turned on me. And it started to be incredibly uncomfortable to the point where the buyer said something to me about me being on my period. That's when I lost it. And I don't think I maintained my decorum as well as I could have, but I did excuse myself from the table. And I came back to the table after pacing back forth in the bathroom for a minute. And I sat down and I had to sort of reassess how to gain control again, or at least look at least looking at the bathroom. at someone and say, you know, this is not acceptable. You know, oftentimes I think when we're in

that moment and we're caught off guard, we just kind of shut down because you have this little inside voice that's telling yourself, oh my God, did they just say that to me? I think they just said that. That was rude, right? Like, and you're like, this conversation within yourself instead of saying it out loud. And I didn't. And I know better. But I think that was so caught off guard and was so appalled with what it's confronted with, but even myself, and this all happened. when I was actually writing the book, which is why the story ended up in there. Even being as self-aware as I was during that moment, I couldn't access that part of me to look them in the eye and say, I don't know who you think you're talking to, but I know it isn't me.

And it happens again, I'm going to leave the table and the meeting's going to be over. I did that after I came back to the table and sorting myself out. But oftentimes when that happens, I think you have to kind of trust that little angel and devil on your shoulder and actually speak it because more often than not your gut is right and we don't use it enough and we don't vocalize it enough in the moment and it's so empowering it's terrifying at the same time as it's coming out but also really rewarding because what I have realized is you know we often don't say things because oh for fear we might lose the job I mean despite the fact that he absolutely treated me with an enormous amount of disrespect and I probably

wouldn't want to work with that person anyways. We're not thinking about that in the moment. We're thinking about the job, the money, the paycheck, the let's get to the finish line. And so we quiet that voice. And I feel it is so imperative to exercise that voice and our gut more often than not because that's what really commands respect from people, not the email the next day saying, you know, I've given it some thought and really feel like you were very disrespectful to me. And I, you owe me an apology. It's far less powerful. And granted, it happens and so many of us do this, but it's far more powerful to say it in the moment. How do you train yourself to be able to do that? I mean, it's one thing to understand that right now, as we're both sitting here and as the people

who are listening to this are driving in their cars or making dinner or going on a jog, when there isn't any type of triggering event. You have to exercise it, though, Paula. It's like anything in life. Anything that we do, the only reason we become good at it is by repetition. Start accessing it on a simple basis, you know, when you're communicating with your kids, or you feel something with a friend about something simple. It doesn't have to be necessarily confrontation, but like you hear your inner voice or you hear someone saying something bad about someone else. Give it a shot and then begin to do that every day in every interaction that you're having. I have a girlfriend of mine who's my makeup artist,

And she is sitting down with a friend of hers that she had an argument with the beginning of COVID, I guess it was. And they're going to sit down and talk about how their friendships sort of fell apart during the course of this last nine months. And they're going to be getting together to discuss that. And it's like, you know, you can either be, you know, set yourself up to repair it in a way that is, you know, let's just get to the finish line here so we can have a glass and wine cheers and move on. Or you can really listen to what's happening in that moment. trust your gut and actually speak your truth so that when you put your head on the pillow that night you were like I left it all on the mat you know what I mean I have nothing else that I could have said I cried I felt the emotion I did it and now now I feel very good about moving forward and repairing it not sort of withholding and I'm guilty of that as well you know there's a lot of times during COVID where, you know, I've had disagreements with friends or family and, you know, everybody's struggling during this time to sort of navigate relationships when you can't see people. And if I don't say it and I don't speak up about it, then I'm doing myself an

injustice because then I take it to bed at night and I can't recover. And then I'm, I'm walking around burdened with what I didn't say every day. And that's what creates anxiety in people. That's why so many people suffer from depression because it's like they're not listening to their gut. They're not accessing it. And so it's an exercise. It's like training yourself every morning to get in shape. So practice every day in low-stakes situations such that the muscle is developed for when it happens in a high-stakes environment. Absolutely.

What about, it strikes me that on one hand, there are some people who tend to hold back and don't, say what they're really thinking. And then there are others who maybe become explosive in the moment and later regret what they said. What recommendations would you have for anyone who's listening to this who falls into that latter category? Oh, well, I mean, I don't know if there's a person out there that hasn't, I don't think that's like a 50-50 split. I think we've all been there. I know I can personally say that, you know, more often than not when you do explode, it's because you were also holding back for so long that you built up aggression to the point where you finally lost it. And I think everybody falls into both of those categories.

It's finding that middle ground of recognizing, you know, some things are meant for yourself. You don't have to say everything that comes to your mind, but you also can't have diarrhea of the mouth. So it's finding that middle ground and recognizing where your personality lies most of the time and then exercising the other end of it. We'll come back to this episode in just a minute. But first, how do you know if you're in some type of a work environment, maybe you're working on a project and things just aren't going well with your team? And you have the ability to decide whether or not you want to stick with it. You know, you have the ability to quit or to pivot or to make a shift. How do you know if the end game is worth it?

Yeah. I mean, you don't sometimes. You know, we all take chances. There are certain flags, I think, and this goes back to instinct, that come up for us when we go out for a job that we take because maybe the money's great. But we know instinctively that it might be a challenge. But we did it. We've all been there. I've done it.

I did it with the Malibu portfolio guy that was on my show last season. I knew that he was driven by ego. I knew that he was a total lunatic. and I knew it was going to be incredibly difficult to work for him because the six agents that worked for him prior and were fired all told me yet I was paying attention to the potential of $10 million in commission over the course of the next three years so I let that get in the way of like having a very clear decision about what my boundaries were if I were to take that job and it ended of biting me in the ass because ultimately he pulled so much of my focus and so much of my time

that it started to head and really disrupt my personal life, my team's, you know, personal lives. And we were working more for him than we were for any other client that we were servicing at the time. And so it was affecting my business in a negative way. And I finally got to the place where I said, I don't feel good about this anymore. I don't care how creative it's been. It was a learning, a big lesson for me. But when you get to the point where your health is suffering, you're emotionally unstable because you're challenged in an unhealthy way by the person that you're sitting across from on a daily basis.

And the people around you are suffering as well. Then it's time for you to take a look at it and say, you know what? I don't care how much money this is. My livelihood, my family, and my other business is more important than anyone. check. And so, you know, I ultimately made the decision to part ways. It didn't come without failing at what I thought I could do differently first, you know, even though six other agents before me, all very qualified, reputable, incredible, incredible real estate agents advise me. I said, I can handle this ego. I've got ego. I got ego guys all day long. This guy is like

a walk in the park. And the truth was, I told myself that because I thought that I was. I thought that I could hack it and then I couldn't. And that's okay. You learn that in business as you go. You don't wake up having the instincts that serve you in a way that you get it right every single time. I mean, I'm 20 years into this and, you know, thank God I only worked with him for six months. I would have been three years of trauma and torture. And the truth is, I left him almost, it's almost been a year since we parted ways. And he's still sitting. with every single property that I had listed, and not one of them is traded. So can you imagine another 12 months of trauma to my team, my family, myself, and obviously

affecting my other clients, what that would have done to my business? Right. You mentioned instinct, and I know that you've developed yours over the span of 20 years, but how, especially for people who are listening to this, who are first getting started, how can they develop their instincts? Well, it's there. It's always there. It's there for every single one of us. We hear it and then we ignore it 90% of the time. I bet you anybody listening to this podcast right now would be like, oh yeah. I remember when my boyfriend cheated on me and he came home late and he was like two in the morning and I knew he cheated. I knew it. I knew something was and I just moved on. Well, you know, like in life and in business. As kids, we have insoling. sticks. We know instinctually that mom or dad is going to be mad at us because we, you know, we're on our phone when we shouldn't have been or we have these guts. We just don't access it

enough. And so for someone new, particularly in coming into business, it's just hear it. You're not always going to use it, but really listen to it and analyze it after you walk out of a meeting and say, God, you know, like I felt that in that moment. I didn't have the courage. to say it out loud, but like I need to honor that for a minute and I need to analyze it. And I need to say to myself, was that like now that I've taken myself out of the space? Was that a good meeting? And did I perform at the level that I could have? But, you know, there was this instance where someone pulled me out of it and I didn't say anything. And I want to examine that a little bit further because you're not going to get it right out of the gates. And candidly, a 20 year old out of college walking in

for their first job. They shouldn't. They should hear it. And then they got to, you know, you're getting into a workforce that's very competitive. Sometimes you just have to do your job and pay attention. And then as you get down the road, I think, in your career, then you begin to start utilizing your voice in a way that is very powerful. And I think that just takes time. Well, thank you so much for spending this time with us, Tracy. Where can people find you if they want to know more? You can go to tracytutor.com, pretty easy. And I'm also on social media, on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, on at Tracy Tudor. Thank you, Tracy.

What are some of the key takeaways that we got from this conversation? Here are five. Tip number one, dress the part. To help yourself stay engaged during a meeting or to engage others, dress the part. Don't show up in casual wear, even if you are showing up from your living room. It's 2020. A lot of us are working remotely,

but there's still value in dressing professionally even if your Zoom video camera is turned off. Because showing up in sweatpants could lead you to treat the meeting with less importance. We tend to not dress. And I do think that that brings a casual nature

to the meeting. And so when you know you have a big presentation, I do recommend brushing your hair, putting on some makeup. The sweatshirt you got out and bed in, take it off. Maybe we're stopping the shower. Going through a ritual of preparation for a meeting can also help you get into the appropriate headspace for it.

Just like getting ready for work during the before times may have helped prepare you or focus you for what lay ahead, having that same type of ritual, that same getting ready for work, even when work happens out of your living room or out of the spare bedroom, that ritual of preparation can help you get into the appropriate headspace. And if you need to, take baby steps. You may not necessarily need to wear a suit and tie that can be a little stodgy or awkward to wear a tie in your own home, but you could at least start with a button-down shirt. So that's key takeaway number one. Go through a preparation ritual by dressing the part. Key takeaway number two, find common ground. One theme that Tracy repeated throughout

the beginning of the interview was the importance of finding common ground on which to connect with others. This can help you real people back into the conversation. Engagement comes from connection. So if you have someone sitting across from you that's excitable, you should match that energy. They relate to that. That's something that they understand. And then once you sort of have them and you've engaged in some sort of personal connection, then you can start talking about whatever it is that you're there to speak about. It's a really much better way to engage someone personally. Then they're more invested in what you have to say.

It's important to go into meetings, particularly with new clients, with some context already established. Figure out as much as you can about the person with whom you're meeting beforehand. The more information that you have about that person, the better you can handle anything that may arise. Sometimes finding common ground also means listening very closely, very actively, during your meeting or conversation. Listen closely to what they have to say, including casual or flippant comments, and find out what mood they're in, or get a sense of what else may be on their mind. What might be distracting them?

What do they wake up thinking about or go to sleep thinking about? The more insight you can glean into that, the more you'll know how to meet their mind. where they are at their level. So that is key takeaway number two. Find common ground, not only in hobbies and activities, but also in emotionally meeting somebody at their level. Key takeaway number three, embrace humor. I'll let Tracy lead off with why this matters.

I think you just have to be able to find that lightness in yourself because that's what ultimately connects all of us. Humor is very, very closely related to connection. with other people, and that's something that everybody wants to be around. If you can ease tension or break the ice with someone through humor, that's valuable. That's an incredibly valuable skill. And it could also come in handy if you need to get through to somebody who is ego-driven and intelligent.

Many people appreciate wit. Furthermore, embracing humor allows you to not take yourself too seriously. And remember, this is not a comedy central audition. You're not trying to be a stand-up. comedian, you don't have to be the funniest person in the room. Sometimes all you need to do is laugh and come with a spirit of humor and you'll be able to lighten the mood and make light of any situation. And so that is key takeaway number three. Embrace humor. Key takeaway number four, practice speaking out and defend your boundaries. Tracy shared her story of having a dinner

meeting with two very ego-driven individuals who ended up turning on her. Now, in that moment, she knew that she had been disrespected, but it was still difficult for her to speak out and tell them how inappropriate their comments were. It is, however, more impactful if you can speak out in the moment. Sending an email the following day doesn't work as well. It doesn't carry the same heft. That being said, speaking out in the moment takes practice. It takes practice in part because it requires quick thinking and in part because it demands bravery and courage. Speaking out in that moment can be terrifying, but it's also empowering. So it's best to start practicing in low-stakes situations, such as in conversations with friends or family. You feel something with a friend

about something simple. It doesn't have to be necessarily confrontation, but like you hear your inner voice or you hear someone saying something bad about someone else, give it a shot and then begin to do that every day in every interaction that you're having. Now, it may be nerve-wracking at first, but as Tracy said,

you do yourself an injustice by carrying the burden of what you didn't say. So key takeaway number four is to defend your boundaries and practice speaking out in support of those boundaries. Key takeaway number five, know when to let it go. Tracy shared her example of working with a client that six other real estate agents had warned her about. She didn't heed their warnings. She thought she could handle the situation.

But six months after working with this client, she stopped working with him because he'd had, by that point, a negative impact on her personal life, on her team's personal life, and ultimately on her business. She was so drawn to the potential of making a huge commission on his portfolio,

but she learned the hard way that the cost was far too high. When you get to the point where your health is suffering, you're emotionally unstable because you're challenged in an unhealthy way by the person that you're sitting across from on a daily basis, and the people around you are suffering as well, then it's time for you to take a look at it.

and say, you know what, I don't care how much money this is. My livelihood, my family, and my other business is more important than any black check. And so that is key takeaway number five. Know when to let go. Sometimes your time, your energy, your attention, your effort is better spent elsewhere. It's better spent walking away. Those are five key takeaways from this conversation with Tracy Toon. You can get the show notes for today's episode and the show notes for all future episodes delivered directly to your inbox by heading to afford anything.com slash show notes.

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