Afford Anything - How to Improve Your Relationship with Money

Episode Date: February 20, 2017

#65: I've always taken an approach to life that puts my freedom first.  My one and only 9-5 lasted only 3 years. Since then I've been self employed and built financial independence through rental real estate. And while most see this podcast as being about money, it's really about a philosophy around life that is disguised as a finance blog and podcast. Today I get real about this whole money thing. I hope you follow along the mental journey with me. For more information, visit the show notes at https://affordanything.com/episode65 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's show, I want to do something that I've never done before. I want to rock this whole show solo. By the way, if you are just tuning in for the first time, this is the Afford Anything podcast, my name's Paula Pant. If you're a first time listener and this is your first episode, you probably don't want to start with this one. Or I don't know, maybe you do. But this episode's going to be different because in most shows, I either interview a guest, which is awesome because I bring on people who I think are interesting and we have an amazing conversation. or I answer questions that come from you all, the listeners.

That's the normal format around here. But today I want to just talk to you. Is that okay? Can we do that? Are we at that level? Awesome. Because it occurred to me that I had a lot of thoughts about money and life that I just want to share. I want to get out into the open.

So here we go. First of all, I don't podcast or blog about money. I just kind of want to make that clear. I write about a philosophy of life that is disguised as a finance blog and podcast. And when I say philosophy of life, that sounds set in stone. But really, I'm working through it just as much as you all are. And when I write about a topic or podcast about a topic, I'm exploring it just as much as any of us. I've always approached life from a really different frame than most.

people. Like, for one thing, I never wanted to have a nine to five job, ever. And I stayed in the nine to five workforce for a grand total of three years and then got out and I never went back. And that's largely because I've always taken this approach to life that my freedom comes first. I don't really know where that started, but the one thing that I did know by watching people is that that seemed to be unusual. When I looked around, I noticed everybody else who seemed concerned about getting the big house and the nice car and the this and the that. And I just wanted freedom. Even when I didn't know how that was going to happen, everything I've done, starting with just saving up money and then backpacking for a while and then transitioning into self-employment and then transitioning into building streams of passive income, all of that has. has been in the service of creating freedom.

Because to me, there's nothing richer than being able to, you know, on a sunny Tuesday afternoon, go on a hike or just clean your living room or read a book or stay in bed until 11 in the morning. I see that as being where wealth really lives. But, you know, a lot of people say that, but then I think a lot of people will agree with that on the surface. But they express that with these cliches like, oh, money doesn't matter. But money does matter. Because if you didn't have the money to be able to live the life that you wanted, you would have to trade your time for money. So it makes no sense to claim money doesn't matter or it's a shame that our lives have to revolve around money so much. all of these statements that you hear in society that express shame or resentment or disappointment around our relationship with money.

I always took umbrage to that. Isn't that a good word, by the way? I just learned the definition of umbrage. I took umbrage to that because I felt like it was important to have a healthy relationship with money. Because for better and for worse, for richer and for poor, money is going to be part of our life. lives, every single one of us, for the rest of our lives. And in the same way that we work on relationships with people and with ourselves and with our health and with we have relationships with food, we also have a relationship with money. And so much of the dominant thinking out there and so many of the cliches that you hear express a really negative relationship with money. When people say he or she is filthy rich, I mean, that expresses

a money negativity, you know, relating being rich with filth, with dirt, with something that we don't like. When people say that so-and-so is a sellout, again, you know, I think what they're trying to say is so-and-so maybe is inauthentic or has made decisions that might not come from a place of integrity. But we express that by taking aim at the selling part, at the money aspect of what that is. When we use the cliche, another day, another dollar, I mean, heck, that's the epitome of trading time for money. And it lends a sort of resignation to life that the whole point of everything that I blog and podcast about is not to ever trade your time for money to escape that cycle as soon as possible. So another day, another dollar is just, ugh, never accept that.

when we say that something is worth its weight in gold, we are expressing that we see money as a commodity, a gold as a commodity. And certainly to a certain extent, it is a commodity, it is an object. But I just question whether or not people are really aware that it is also something more than just that. That it is a metaphor for the values that we have and the behaviors that we express and the way in which we want to live our right. lives. I mean, money is the ultimate symbol of what we value and to have a healthy relationship with money is, number one, to not have negative emotions surrounding it, and number two, to align your behaviors with your values, which is the definition of integrity. And that really is what this money conversation is all about. Deciding what you value, learning how to

align your actions with that and embracing the positivity and the joy that you can find in having a healthy relationship with money. Everything in the world of personal finance ultimately leads back to finding integrity and finding joy. That's really what personal finance is all about. And so when I say that I blog and podcast about a philosophy of life that is disguised as financial advice, sure, financial independence to me is part of my philosophy of life, but financial independence itself is the starting point of the story. It's not the end of the story. Financial independence is a symptom or maybe one possible outcome of what happens when a person lives with integrity. and has a positive relationship with money. You know, since we've been talking a little bit about some of the popular cliches that are in our society, I want to stay on that track for a minute because that's something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

So there's that expression, the best things in life are free. That expression, I think on the surface means that love, care, all of these things that are in abundance are what matter in life. And those things are free. And that is absolutely true. But it's also worth noting the money negativity that is embedded within that statement. If the best things in life are free, then the things that are affiliated with money or with what money can buy are, by definition, not the best things in life. They're the, if not the worst things in life, at least the not good things in life, not as good things in life. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Maybe I just have too much time on my hands to think. which is another interesting statement. But if we drop the negativity and just face the day-to-day decisions that we make with in our lives, we see that a lot of the best things in life do cost money. Like, food is pretty awesome. I prefer being fed to starving. And that does cost money. So does shelter.

So does electricity. And so does having adequate time to be able to spend with the people that you love. You know, so does having the peace of mind that allows you to enjoy a life in which you can follow your passions and act on your priorities and do so in a way that doesn't feel restrictive. And all of that comes from being in a good space with your finances. And that good space will never unfold if you carry this negativity with you, the kind that is embedded in a lot of the messaging that we get. Ditto with the cliche, you can't take it with you. That's true also. You certainly can't take your net worth with you.

But you can leave a legacy. And also, you can spend your time on earth making the types of decisions about how you spend your days and your year. that you otherwise wouldn't be able to make if you were in a drastically different financial situation. Let's also take a look at those two cliches that I just named. You can't take it with you, and the best things in life are free. Both of those cliches have the hidden assumption that money is synonymous with spending, particularly spending on material items, such as luxury goods, fancy brands, cars, Gucci handbags. Well, what is it that people buy these days?

I just got an Amazon Echo, actually. It was a gift from somebody. But sure, yeah, that's an example. Those cliches assume that money is useful for purchasing depreciating objects. And that's an assumption that I hope that the people who are listening to this podcast or who read my blog, afford anything.com, that's an assumption I hope that you'll question. Because money, as I said, is a metaphor for the decisions that you make. and Amazon Echo is an Amazon Echo.

And the two are just not the same. One is a toy and the other is a reflection of the life that you want to create. And let's not conflate the two. And the first step to not conflating the two is recognizing that money and material objects are not synonymous with one another. So let's talk a little bit about how to create a healthy relationship with money. because I've mentioned that I want to really take aim at all of the financial negativity that's out there. So how do you actually do that? How do you start to develop a better relationship? Here are a couple of tips that I have come up with. And a lot of this actually comes from the literature around how to develop a better relationship with food.

Because there's a lot of conversation around that. And unfortunately, there isn't a lot of conversation around improving your relationship. with money, but the lessons that we can get from improving relationships with food can really apply. So number one is to recognize when that negativity bubbles up, the shame, the guilt, the envy of what other people have, like, just be aware of those feelings and sit with it and acknowledge it and let it go. I know I sound like a complete hippie, like I'm playing hippie madlibs right now, like Dreadlocks, but it's true. It's absolutely true. Like sometimes things become cliche because they've got some wisdom in them. Another way to let go of some of that negativity and to develop a healthier relationship is to be mindful. So in the same way that you might practice

mindful eating by like slowing down and really tasting your food and chewing slowly, practice mindful care of every dollar and every hour that comes into your life. Some people use the metaphor of every dollar is an employee and it can either work for you or you can dismiss it and let it go and then you have a lesser of a workforce. That's a good metaphor if you're trying to get yourself into the mindset of wanting to become an investor. I think that's a fantastic one. But if you're trying to just generally improve that relationship, try the metaphor of every dollar is a friend. And I know some people are going to feel very uncomfortable with that because we're taught not to love money, not to enjoy it.

We're taught to despise it or feel shame around it. But what good can ever come from wallowing in those bad feelings? If instead we look at every dollar as a friend and ask ourselves, how do we want to treat this friend, then we can develop a more mindful relationship. Again, I don't know if I'm making any sense at all. You guys probably think I'm high right now. I promise you I'm not. But these topics are just, they're hard to express.

It's, it is so much easier to sit around talking about Roth IRA contributions and cap rates on rental real estate. It's so much easier to talk about that stuff because we're talking spreadsheets rather than spirit. And there's something about the conversation. When when we talk about I have X amount of money should I put it into a 401k versus an IRA versus a savings account, like that conversation is concrete. and we can stay in an analytical mind for it. And we can run spreadsheets. And yeah, we can give some lip service to values and behavior, but we don't have to go deep into the unknown.

And those conversations are fun. I have them every week here on this show. You know, it's a great way to pass the time while we're waiting for the earth to spin around the sun some more. But, you know, ultimately those conversations, while important, I guess, aren't really the point. because if you don't have a healthy relationship with money to begin with, then what are we all doing here? So how to have a healthy relationship with money starts with being mindful, practicing mindful spending, practicing mindful stewardship over everything that comes into your life.

It starts with being grateful for the money that you have and letting go of feelings of shame or guilt or envy, letting go of everything that's happened in the past. You know, the past is the past. and it's fine to feel sad about it, you know, and to acknowledge that sadness, and then let it go. Because all you have is the present. You don't even really have the future. You just have the present. And if you live your present in a way that honors the possibility that you may have a future, then the future will be taken care of.

But really, all we've got is now. It's right this moment. So enjoy it. And that's another piece of having a healthy relationship with money is enjoy the now. Enjoy the money. And enjoy the money is not a euphemism for spend it. I genuinely mean enjoy it. When I make an investment in an index fund, man, I enjoy the hell out of that.

I'm telling you, like, I get so much joy out of maxing out a retirement account or buying a rental property or, you know, I get so much joy out of this thing that everybody else refers to as delayed gratification. Are you kidding me? I'm not delaying Jack. I'm super gratified by the fact that I'm making that investment. It's awesome. So yeah, that's part of having a healthy relationship with money. Enjoy it. Enjoy the process because, you know, we may not live to tomorrow or we may not even live to tonight. So if you're not enjoying it along the way, then I urge you to start. Okay, another. Another way to develop a more healthy relationship with money is to stop the vicious cycle of comparison because it's worthless. It's absolutely useless. I don't know why we bother. I mean, I guess maybe there's some psychological this and that to why we bother. I'm not a psychologist. But I do know that it doesn't serve any good in our lives. And by the way, comparisons work in a variety of fashion. Yeah, the standard cliche is don't try to keep up with the Joneses.

Don't compare where you live to where they live. Don't compare your car. Don't compare your clothes. Yada, yada, yada. We've all heard that. But the same is true when you see somebody who's really rocking it in the investment world. You see someone who owns a thriving business. You see someone who owns a bunch of rental properties or is way ahead of you in retirement savings or has a bigger net worth.

Don't compare yourself to those people. either. There will always be people who have done better than you, and there will always be people who have not done as well as you, and who the F cares. All you have is your own story. Anything else is just noise. Okay, another way to develop a positive relationship with money is, and I'm a little bit torn on this one, some people give the advice of practicing positive affirmations. I've never been able to really stick with that. I've tried affirmations many times, and I don't know if it's just my failure in forming habits that has caused me to not see the value of it or if maybe just different things work for different people, but give it a go. If it works for you, then that's awesome.

I find that what's helpful for me is to just be aware of subtle negativities when they come into my life. So again, those cliches that I was talking about earlier on this podcast, cast, the statement that I made earlier, it's a shame that our lives have to evolve around money so much. That's the reason that statement is at the forefront of my mind is because I literally heard someone. I was standing on a street corner talking to some friends of friends. Like I was hanging out with friends. We were crossing the street. They had some friends of friends who were also crossing the street. We literally intersected. So we got to talking. And of course, whenever I start talking to people, you know, what do you do? Oh, I,

I'm a blogger and a podcaster. Oh, what do you blogging a podcast about? Well, and you know, I've started, I used to say personal finance. I've actually started answering that question with, I write about a philosophy of life that's disguised as finance. I've literally just started saying that. And some people kind of think that I'm a weirdo, but I find that it really opens me up to a lot of much more meaningful discussions. So anyway, I said that. And the guy's response was, oh, you know, it's a shame that life has. to revolve around money. That was what he heard. And I thought that was really interesting because, you know, the way you hear something is a reflection on what's in your mind. You know, it's a reflection of thoughts and assumptions and ideas that you may not have even known you had. So watch what comes up when people say things because how you hear something tells you a lot about yourself. And once you know, once you can recognize that within yourself, self, then you can see the discrepancy between where you are right now and your ideal self, your present self and your ideal self. And when you see that gap between the present self and

the ideal self, you'll have a better roadmap to transitioning into the person whom you would like to become. So that's another tip. Another tip in terms of improving your relationship with money is to just let go of the need to be perfect. And this relates back to you know, letting go of the past. Also, let go of the need to be perfect in the present. You know, it's okay if your present self spends too much money on face creams, which, by the way, hashtag guilty, yeah, I spend a lot of money on various face creams because deep down I'm 33 and I'm kind of afraid of aging and I'm afraid of what I'm going to look like when I'm in my 40s or 50s. Women are often judged on their appearance and I guess I figure that if I

throw enough money at like moisturizing cream, then somehow that will make me hot when I'm 55. I don't know. I realize it makes no sense. But I spend too much money on that. And that's just something I do. And I know it's unwise. And I let go of the need to be perfect about the way that I spend my money. And I think that there's a lot of power in that, in sitting with that. That actually relates to a follow-up point. Pay attention to what you do when you're feeling low because if you default to spending at times when you are stressed or bored, that's an indicator that there's something else that you need to address. Retail therapy is another unfortunate cliche that has formed in our society.

There is nothing therapeutic about going into a retail space and spending your money, again, which is a metaphor for your time and your life. there's nothing therapeutic about spending it in ways that doesn't align with the person whom you want to become. So notice that within yourself when you see that you start to do it and then pivot. Awareness is one thing, but awareness without follow-up action is only half as effective or maybe even a fraction of as effective. So notice it within yourself and then find one small way that you can pivot. You don't have to become perfect tomorrow. But if you can improve your behaviors one percent at a time or one small decision at a time,

then over time those improvements add up. And the person who you unfold into six months from now or a year from now could be unrecognizable in a way that is beautiful. Another way to improve your relationship with money is to let go of hidden assumptions around scarcity. I talked a little bit earlier about how in our society there's a lot of disparagement of the rich. You know, they're filthy rich. Rich people are greedy. Rich people are evil. You hear those sentiments being echoed all the time.

And I think part of that stems from self-doubt. If you don't believe that you will ever be rich or wealthy, in however you define that, If you believe that that's unattainable, then it's natural that you would have a defense mechanism that otherizes people who have that. You know, people who it's natural that you would have an us versus them defense mechanism to protect yourself against that, to protect yourself against any feelings of inadequacy that may bubble up. But if you realize that being rich or wealthy, however you define that, is within your power, then there is no reason to have that us versus them. And there's no reason to paint the them with broad generalizations and mass stereotypes. Deep down, I think we all know that it's unfair and unjust to say that a person is evil or doesn't care about society just because they have a high net worth. Your net worth is not a reflection on your integrity. And I think deep down we all know that. But again, a lot of the dominant conversation pieces within our society speak a different narrative.

And that messaging is subtle and profound. And there's a lot of inner work that I think all of us are called to do in terms of unlearning those messages. And that inner work just starts. with recognizing it, being attuned to it, you know, hearing those statements when you're at cocktail parties or when you're at networking events or when you're standing on a street corner and in that moment that you hear that message, you know, recognizing the subtle message behind what you've just heard. And then asking yourself, do I want to buy into this framework or not? Okay, so we're about 30 minutes deep into this podcast. So here's what's coming up for me

right now, I would like to put an ad into this show for a service that I use called Audible. But what's coming up for me right now is that I'm really reluctant to transition into that break because I guess I've got some hidden scripts that say that if I'm doing something for money, then the thing that I'm doing is somehow less pure or less authentic or less real. And so, so yeah, so that's what's coming up for me right now. And I'm going to sit with that and we're going to transition into some ads. And after that, we're going to come back and keep talking about fear of profit, fear of success and just shame and guilt around making money. So here are the ads.

Okay. That wasn't so bad, was it? Just so you know, I feel the need to justify this. I actually don't make very much money from this podcast. A lot of the revenue that comes in through the ads is I used to pay Steve, the, the ed, and producer of the show. Thank you, Paula. I love my job. And Aaron, who is my awesome assistant, I write the show notes these days, but she does the formatting and the layout and she schedules it. So, you know, paying them is a big part of what comes from this and the hosting, of course, and marketing. I don't know why I feel the need to justify this, but I guess I'm feeling the need

to justify it because I myself probably have deeply internalized scripts around, you know, if I do something for free, it is somehow more pure than if I receive compensation for it. And when I think about that, that script doesn't need to be there. I could be a douchebag for free or I could be wildly authentic and also receive compensation for it. Those two don't, heart and hustle are not mutually exclusive, but that's something that I guess, even as an entrepreneur and as the business owner, I continue to work through every day. You're seeing it live in action right now. Well, you're not seeing it live, but I'm working through it live as I talk through this right now. Oh, man, this is getting heavy. I'm not used to this. Normally I tend to deflect, but when things get heavy, I tend to just tell jokes and keep things surface level.

Hey, you want to hear a joke? What's brown and sticky? A stick. Oh, that was terrible. I heard it from my Amazon Echo, actually. Yeah, see, it's scary to get into an emotional place around money, because especially if you're like me and you're a thinker and you live. inside your head, this is generally kind of uncharted territory. And to be in this uncharted territory with money, which is something that is just unusual, like, what kind of freak show are

you that you work this hard on your relationship with money? I mean, no, who does that? Yeah, it's double, it's double scary. But sometimes you've just got to lean into the discomfort. And speaking of leaning into the discomfort, here's another, uh, related topic. A lot of people I've heard believe that money is a source of stress or disappointment. People will blame money on the fact that they are in a bad mood or are in a bad place in life. The situation is never at fault. The situation just is. Your perception of the situation is the thing that causes fear and pain. and discomfort. And that's the thing that I encourage you to work on. Rather than use the situation as a scapegoat or worse, use money as a scapegoat, work on your reactions, work on your responses

because that's where the growth comes from. I hope you guys are staying with me. I realize this is totally different than any other podcast episode that I've done. And again, the avoidant part of myself wants to retreat to the safety of explaining a mathematical formula or explaining the difference between your marginal tax rate and your effective tax rate, because that's easy. It's so easy to do that. All you have to do is learn what it is and then repeat that information. It's a lot harder to sit with your fears and to acknowledge the things that come up for you as they relate to money or to profit because they're not.

that comes up all day long every day. Every time we go to dinner, every time we make a purchasing decision, every time we try to start a side business and quote a client when a client says, what's your rate? That comes up. When you send an invoice to a client, that comes up. Yeah, I'm terrible at invoicing. I just, I hate sending invoices. That's what that's why I like automated systems. And it's because, you know, those feelings of self-worth. Those come up every time that we deal with money. And what I've been thinking a lot about recently is that money management is emotional management. They are one and the same. And that's partially because money is such an emotional topic, but it's also partially because money is a metaphor for life.

and emotional management is kind of just the key to doing well in life. And I suppose the natural follow-up question is, okay, how do I get better at emotional management? You're asking the wrong person. Trust me, when I figure that out, I will let you know. But I hope that this episode has at least been a good start in exploring that. I'd like to close out by citing an article that I found in Forbes, and I'm going to link to this in the show notes, which are available at affordanything.com slash episode 65.

That's affordanything.com slash episode 65. So this Forbes article is 15 ways to improve your relationship with money. And I'd like to walk through some of these. Number one, pay attention to it. So many of us ignore money. We take the avoidant approach. Pay attention to it. Number two, make time for it.

In whatever way that means to you, whether that means literally sitting down and making a budget, which I don't do. And I made the intentional choice not to do that. I practice something called the anti-budget, which means I decide how much I'm going to save. And I use the term save broadly to mean anything that improves my net worth, such as retirement contributions, additional payments on a mortgage or literal savings in a savings account. So I decide how much money I want to put towards net worth improvement. I pull that off the top. and then I just don't care about the rest.

That's my anti-budget. And the reason that I formed that is because I sat and thought, all right, what am I trying to achieve? And what is the simplest way to achieve that? And what I'm trying to achieve is making sure that I'm directing enough money into net worth improvements. And so if that's the goal, then let's just cut to the chase, put that money aside, and then let go over the rest.

So anyway, that's my way of paying attention to it. And I guess my way of making time for it is via hosting a podcast about it and writing a blog about it and having lots and lots of conversations about it. But of course your way is going to be different. So in whatever way you express that, pay attention to it and make time for it. Prioritize it because prioritizing money really means thinking about the priorities in your life and then aligning the way that you spend your money with the priorities that you have for your life. Do you want to quit a job that is unsatisfying? Do you want to be able to move to be closer to your family or to be in a warmer, more beautiful location? Do you want just a safety net so that if an opportunity emerges, you can take it?

You know, what are your priorities? And then how can you align your day-to-day spending decisions in a way that reflects that? Another way to improve your relationship, according to this Forbes article, and I agree with it wholeheartedly, celebrate the good, you know? It's okay to celebrate your financial wins. It's not greedy. It's not selfish. It's not...

Let go of the negativity that says that it's bad to celebrate the good. Likewise, forgive the bad. Don't expect perfection from your present self and don't beat yourself up over sunk costs that happened in the past. Maintain a sense of humor. Hey, want to hear a really nice? nerdy finance joke. What's the capital of Iceland? Me, about 25 bucks. Okay, maintain a sense of humor. I'm clearly not a hashtag not a comedian. Um, respect your money. You know, treat it with

respect. Again, money is a metaphor for life. Respect your life. Respect your money. Don't manipulate your money. Don't try to engage in a power struggle with it. Don't blame it for your bad mood. don't blame it for situations in your life that are not where you want it to be. Seek to understand your money. Like, seek to truly understand it. Again, and I feel like I'm a broken record here, but money is self in so many ways. And when you understand your money and the relationship that you have with it, you understand yourself in a much deeper way. And likewise, don't lose yourself in it.

Don't get so caught up in the numbers that you forget your money. yourself. And when you do spend money, not invest it, but spend it on a liability or on a depreciating object or on an experience, spend it in a way that reflects the best version of yourself that you want to be at this time. Spend it in a way that's conscious and thoughtful. Another way to improve your relationship with money, recognize the difference between a want and a need. And I think a lot of this goes back to the framework of I can't versus I choose not to. That's a big piece of the reframing that I've devoted afford anything, both the blog and the podcast, to exploring.

So many people believe they can't afford it. You can't afford it. You can totally afford it. You just you can't afford everything. So when you say I can't afford it, what you're really saying is I choose not to make this a priority. And I know that sounds like semantics, but we believe the words that come out of our own mouth. And when you are conscious of those words, when you're consciously stating, I choose to not make this a priority at this time, you're embracing a very different mindset than the person next to you who says, oh, I can't. And finally, the final tip that comes out of this Forbes article, as well as the final tip,

that I'm going to close out this episode with, is to have faith in the long-term vision. Because, yes, you can use your money in a way that sparks joy today, whether that means the joy that you get from making an investment or the joy that you get from going to dinner with a friend that you love. Those are all ways that money contributes to joy in the present moment. But as you build towards a long-term vision of financial independence or debt freedom or having a larger safety net, whatever that vision is for you, have faith in it, you know, believe that you'll get there. Because if you, oh, geez, this sounds so esoteric. It just sounds so like rainbows and unicorns and kumbaya. And I don't know how to express this in a way that satisfies the analytical side of my own brain.

But I guess at the risk of just sounding like a treasure trove of cliches, I mean, journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. You know, a wall is built brick by brick. Instagram is filled with one photo at a time? Is that a cliche? That could be a cliche. Sure. Why not? As you work towards that long-term vision, even if it seems far away, just have faith that you'll get there.

And maybe that's where spirit triumphs over spreadsheet. I don't know. Or maybe you can find solace in a spreadsheet. I've done that. But one way or another, know that your money is there to serve both your present self and your future self. And treat your future self really, really effing well. I find a lot of joy and a lot of satisfaction from knowing that, no matter what happens to me, my present self might be a train wreck, but my future self, totally taken care of.

And that brings me an unspeakable amount of peace. Can I ask you for a huge favor? Could you please go to iTunes and leave a review for the Afford Anything podcast? I'd like to highlight some of the recent reviews that we've received. Maribel 3059 says, very helpful. I've been listening to this podcast for about six months, and within that time, Paula has helped retrain my brain to think about money and investments differently. Awesome. That is what I want to hear.

Thank you so much, Maribel. Natalie Cardo says, Afford Anything Podcast is an exceptional personal finance productivity show with valuable educational content, highly perceptive insights, shared by Paula and her guests, not to mention finely tuned editing and sound quality. Wow. I hope I deserve that. Thank you, Natalie. Paula, it's Steve. I think the finely tuned editing and sound quality comment was really for me. All that other stuff about skillful presentation, information in a clear, concise manner, you can have that. I'll take the finely tuned editing and sound quality. Thank you, Natalie. Tree Cup also left a review and says Paula has a great format to her podcast. I enjoy the flow as much as the information.

the material is always well thought out and articulated. Thank you. And Chase's Fish says that he or she particularly enjoys the Q&A. It's nice to see the financial independence community grow and get its message out there. Tom Walter says as a novice to personal finance, all of Paula's information has great value. So thank you. This is amazing. And these reviews are a huge part of what bring more people into this community, you know, spread. the message, get more people thinking and talking about money in creative and critical and intelligent and innovative ways. So these reviews are incredibly helpful. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you to all of you who have left a review. If you have not left a review yet, please head to iTunes, leave us a review. If you have, please head to iTunes and upvote any review that you read that resonates with you, anything that you find helpful. The top three most helpful reviews are the ones that show on an iTunes page when a new listener comes to the page. And right now, the top three reviews that are showing relate back to the early days of the

podcast when Jay Money and I were co-hosting. So I'm concerned that, you know, that might confuse some people who are tuning in for the first time and expecting some co-hosts and then they're like, wait, what? What? So if you could please upvote any review that you find helpful, that would be really awesome and I appreciate it a lot. Thank you again. This is Paula Pant at the Afford Anything podcast. I'll catch you next week.