Afford Anything - How to Start Freelancing on the Side, with Carrie Smith from Careful Cents

Episode Date: July 25, 2016

#35: Carrie Smith enjoyed her full-time accounting job, but she wanted to make extra money on the side. Who doesn't, right? She landed a second job in a tax office, working 9-to-5 for one employer and 5-to-9 for the other. She earned decent money, but her schedule had no flexibility ... and she felt unhappy.  This needs to change, she realized. I need to make good money while also enjoying my lifestyle. Even though she had zero experience as a writer, she wondered if she could leverage her skills as an accountant into a new, creative field. She volunteered to write one or two tax planning articles for a client, just to test the waters. She enjoyed the work. She wanted more.  She started reaching out to websites and companies that might need tax-related article writing. She landed her first major client, Yahoo Finance. Then another. Then another.  After a few years, her freelance business grew large enough that she quit her comfortable accounting job. She's her own boss now.  In this episode, Carrie tells her story and offers advice for anyone who wants to earn extra money as a freelancer -- whether its a side hustle or a path towards quitting your 9-to-5 day job.   For more, visit http://podcast.affordanything.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the Afford Anything podcast all about building a life that you love. You can afford anything but not everything. So what are you going to choose? My name's Paula Pant. I'm the host of this show. And today we're going to talk to somebody who used to be an accountant, but she started looking for ways that she could make money on the side. Initially, she got a second job doing more taxes in the evening.

But then she realized she wanted a more creative outlet. So she started writing. Over the span of the next two years, she built. built up a clientele of websites that paid her to write about taxes and other finance-related topics. And after two years, her side business was doing well enough that she actually quit her full-time accounting job to become self-employed full-time. Now, the reason that I want to talk to her today is because she shares a lot of information about how you can start to earn money on the side outside of your nine-to-five-day job. This is called a side hustle, and I firmly believe that everyone should have some type of side income. Even if you want to stay in your day job for the rest of your life, it is wise to have multiple streams of income, to diversify your income portfolio a little bit, so that if, heaven forbid, you lose your job, you've still got something coming in the door.

So I invited her on first and foremost to talk about how she started making money on the side and what lessons she could share with. the rest of the audience. And later in the interview, we also go into how she then transitioned into working for herself full-time, just for the benefit of anyone who might want to do that. Her name is Carrie Smith. She is based in Colorado, and we're going to talk to her. But before we do, I want to take a quick moment to talk about a tool that is super helpful for anybody who earns money on the side, whether part-time or full-time. It's an invoicing tool. It's called Fresh Books. It is a cloud-based platform. totally online that makes it super easy to track the finances in your side business and figure out how much money is coming in, what clients have paid, what clients still owe you money.

It automates and simplifies the process so that you don't have to stress yourself out about chasing down invoices. You can try it for free for 30 days by going to freshbooks.com slash Paula. That's freshbooks.com slash p-a-u-a-pola. Paula. That's my name. And when they ask, how did you hear about us? Just write Paula in the box. They are super enthusiastic about this podcast. They are the first sponsor of the Afford Anything podcast. And I really want to thank them.

They're a great company to work with. So please go check them out. Try them for free for 30 days. No risk. FreshBooks.com slash Paula. Now with that being said, here's Carrie. Hey, Carrie. Hey, Paula.

I'm really excited to talk to you today. Yeah, likewise. You've got so much good information about freelancing and about making money on the side. Let's start with your story. How long have you been making any type of money kind of on the side outside of your quote-unquote day job that you once had? Yeah, so I worked as a small business accountant for over 10 years. And for two of those years, I was freelance writing and freelance blogging on the side. So I did that for two years. and then three years ago I actually quit my job and now I've been full-time freelancing since then. Tell me about that. So you were, you were an accountant. What made you decide that you wanted to start earning extra money on the side? Well, I actually got to a point in my job where I couldn't get any more raises, really. I couldn't progress, you know, get promotions, things like that. So I started looking for alternative things to do, you know, basically challenge myself, continue learning and growing. I actually took a tax class and I went into like a tax specialization and I did some

business classes and stuff. And so I started working at a tax office every tax season. So as as in addition to my accounting job, I was also doing taxes at night and on weekends during tax season and did that for four years. That was really good experience. I loved that. And it just showed me a whole new world of like different things that I could do still surrounding the finances part that I absolutely loved. That's when I also started freelance writing. I began working with Yahoo Finance and putting out articles for them and that was while I was doing taxes on the side too. So I kind of just like slowly evolved into this thing and it kind of morphed into something I didn't imagine. I never really wanted to quit my job. But yeah, so that's kind of the shortened, condensed version

of my five-year journey. The tax job on the side, I have a easier time imagining, and I'm sure a lot of the listeners have an easier time imagining because, and correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like that was literally a job with hours that you got on the side. Is that correct? Yes, right. Basically two jobs. Okay. So, and that's, it's easy to imagine how you would do that or find that. But what about when you started freelancing, how did you get that very first assignment with Yahoo Finance. So Yahoo Finance was the first paid assignment. I did a free one with a bank that I was

using at the time. I ended up meeting the content director of this online bank at a conference. And I started talking to him about, you know, that I'm interested in writing and my background and finance and all that. And he said, well, why don't you write for our blog, the banking blog that we have? And, you know, I told him, don't worry about paying me because I don't have any experience, but I'd love to do it in exchange for a testimonial and, you know, using these samples. And so I did that for three months. And then that helped me be able to get this job for Yahoo Finance through the connections I made with that bank job. How did you make the connection?

So you met this person, the content director at a conference. So that was the first connection that you made. You met the content director of the bank. How did you then make an additional connection to somebody at Yahoo! finance. Well, I enjoyed writing so much that I wanted to do more of it. And so I asked them, you know, do you have any other banks that you're networked with or any other organizations or anything? And they had this opportunity with Yahoo Finance where they basically republished articles onto the website from their banking blog because it was the up-and-coming online bank

that didn't believe in debt products. So it was like a startup. And they had a unique point of view that Yahoo was featuring. So that's kind of how that went into play. Okay. And then how did you start getting paid by Yahoo? Because it sounds like, you know, at this point, you were still writing for free. How did you make that transition? Yeah. So that was actually kind of funny because I was paid as small fee, I think it was like $24 just to publish this article. And then I would get paid on the amount of page views that it would get. So once it was published on Yahoo, finance, I would get a small commission depending on how well the article was received and how many people shared it or something like that. So it was kind of a mix of both, but it was not a lot of

money in the beginning. I had low expectations anyways since I'd never done any writing or freelancing or anything. So it was just a fun experiment that I just wanted to keep trying. How did it grow from there? Well, oh my gosh. I mean, it basically went from doing that and, you know, having a Yahoo finance capability in your portfolio, you know, featuring that did help me build my reputation pretty quickly. And so I don't really remember the specifics of, you know, which jobs I got next or anything, but I was able to pitch other people and work with other startups, specifically from the startup bank that I'd worked with. And I kind of still do that today. I still work with financial startups and other financial companies, small businesses and stuff.

So I just use my background and then the connections I'd already made, basically. Okay, so let's talk about that, particularly for any listeners who are wondering, well, how do I pitch myself? You know, like, and not just, you know, from the people who are listening, maybe they want to be a freelance writer on the side for some extra money, maybe freelance graphic design or freelance, you know, any type of skill that they have, any type of skill that they can offer. How can they pitch themselves?

How do you start that? Yeah, that's something that everybody can kind of do differently. But for the most part, I like to pitch myself to companies directly that I've already kind of researched or maybe followed on Twitter or maybe connected with on LinkedIn. You know, a mission that I really like or a product that I already used to. I've done that where I know a little bit about the company or are interested in what they do. And I just kind of reach out to them and say, you know, hey, I use your product and I really love it. or in fact the other day I was reaching out to this car insurance company who actually helped me

save a bunch of money since we, my husband and I recently moved to a new state. So we had to switch car insurance and they really helped us save some money, especially being self-employed. And so I just told them that I, this is my story. You helped me save money and I'd really love to share my story on your blog or some other way that I can talk about the product. And so, you know, just basically being genuine about your story or what your experience has been, and if I like to target specific companies or follow them in ways that they've helped

me or something like that. So how do you know who to talk to? How do you get the contact information for somebody at that company? That's always not so easy. I always just try and, you know, look around their website and like sometimes they will have a content form. Kind of is like putting something into a black hole though. So I'll do that occasionally. But then also if there's any other, like write for our site or we'd love to hear from you or something like that. Sometimes there's a link where you can follow the guidelines or the instructions. You do have to take a little bit of time to research it, but it's definitely worth it. Otherwise, I always reach out to their coordinator on Twitter, like their social media

coordinator or something, and then just connect with them, ask them, you know, I've done that with this task management service I use. And I said, hey, I would love to talk to you more about writing for you guys, you hiring or whatever, and then they will share like a link or someone's contact information directly, usually. They're pretty helpful. You know, and then, of course, following up is really important. So it's great to, like, send that email or to reach out on Twitter. But once you have that initial thing, I always set myself a reminder to follow up after my pitch. So that way, you know, it will turn into an actual paying gig or an actual, you know, moving it forward instead of just

putting it out there and saying, well, my one pitch didn't work. The fortune is in the follow up. Exactly. Absolutely. Do you tend to target companies? You mentioned that you'll target companies that you yourself often personally use so that you have that connection and you understand their business. Do you tend to target small businesses or do you go for Fortune 500 companies? What's your strategy there? I've actually had a good mix of both.

I've been doing this for five years now, full time for three of those years. And so I have targeted both small businesses, startups, because I do want to help. them or I am emotionally invested in what they do. And, you know, they may not have as big a budget as a large corporation or a 500 company, but I want to work with both, actually. So I have all of those in my portfolio now where I've worked with bigger names, smaller companies. And I feel like that's good for someone who's listening to that maybe try different audiences or different target markets and see which is the best fit. And then, of course, you know, I like to just keep a good mix anyways because some of them will pay you more. Some of them will have a mission that you love.

You know, so you get a good mix of sort of like something that pays you back in money and other ways. Do you find that it's easier to get work with a smaller company because less red tape or? I do. Yes. Absolutely. The process of onboarding is a lot faster, you know, because you don't have to necessarily wait for the marketing budget to be approved and, you know, you have to sign the contract and every, you know, talk to all these people. So it does have its perks, you know, working with a larger company because they do have a bigger budget and they're usually more organized, but then it does take longer to onboard and to figure out all the details versus a smaller company. How do you figure out how much to charge and how can the listeners figure out how much they

should be charging, particularly given that everyone who's listening is going to have a different skill, whether it's writing or design or programming, and different levels of experience? That is the golden question, something that I feel like there's no hard and fast answer for. Over my years of experience, I've tried charging by the hour, charging by the project, a monthly retainer fee. I've even, as a writer, charged, like, per word, you know, especially editing or something like that, how I would do that. Basically, I would suggest starting out by the hour, but changing quickly because you don't want to get stuck in, you know, exchanging time for money. but it is good to understand yourself in like your your work speed, what your, the scope of the projects are, you know, and if you do it by hourly, you'll be able to start figuring out,

okay, here's how much I could charge per month or per project based on, you know, the hours you work, the time it consumes the amount of research or whatever. So, I mean, I guess a good blanket answer would be start off per hour, try and figure out how quickly you work and how much time it takes you. and then also what the client is willing to pay in that industry as well. So I actually don't charge any of my clients the exact same rate. I just charge it based on what their budget is. Oftentimes I will ask them what their budget is.

That's a good way to start out too. You know, when you're working with somebody like, how much can you pay for this position or whatever? Usually it's a lot more than you would expect to. Is there any type of like ballpark range that you would, I guess for freelance writing? Is there kind of a rough ballpark that you would estimate somebody start at? Well, 25 an hour is pretty low. I wouldn't go much lower than that, no matter what you were doing really.

But I will say that I was reading this article from the Freelancers Union who did a, the bunch of research and they did this infographic of like basically what you would need to make to cover all of your expenses for the first year if you were full-time freelancing. And it worked out to be about $70 per hour. to make it worth it with all of the days that you, you know, the actual working days, minus your overhead and any expenses to get started, taxes, health insurance, all those things that you would have to cover, which you wouldn't have to cover as many. If you were only side hustling, you would still have to pay a little bit of taxes and stuff

like that, you know, maybe a new computer, whatever. But, yeah, somewhere between probably $25 an hour to $70 an hour at least. Okay. And since we are on that topic, can you talk about some of the expenses that a person would have as a freelancer? Definitely. There was a lot more than I initially realized. I know that freelancing actually has very low overhead, you know, usually, especially when

you're working with clients virtually or remote. Some of the things that I pay for, obviously, is actually my laptop is about to go out soon, so I had to save up a little bit of money in preparation to buy a new laptop. I also pay for Wi-Fi when I'm not at home so that I have really good, reliable Wi-Fi. and then a couple of apps and different task management services that I use, you know, also to keep my finances in order. So you can streamline it really, you know, bootstrap it like $200 just to get started and off the ground. And then as your income grows or your business grows, you can definitely expand it and try out different products that will streamline your work and give you

some of your time back. But you don't actually have to spend a whole lot in the beginning. I think I spent about $200 initially and then only, you know, $49 or so per month for a couple different things. What was the initial 200 on? I paid for my hosting for my website, my blog, which was my portfolio and everything. I also paid for the domain name. So I blog at carefulsense.com. So I purchased that. And then also like a theme for my website, making it look pretty and a couple different things related to my site.

Okay. So you basically, you kind of set up a website that could be your portfolio to show. showcase your work when you were reaching out to clients. Definitely. And that was the initial 200. And then after that it was various tools like bookkeeping software maybe or invoicing software, that sort of thing. Yes. Carrie, tell me about how you manage your invoicing and all of that. How do you handle it and how do you make sense of it? Well, it's funny you should say that because I actually do use fresh books myself. I've been using them for, oh my gosh, probably three three or four years even.

And I basically do everything in it. I actually, as a small business accountant originally, I am on their certified Fresh Books map where they have accountants who can work with people and stuff like that. So I've taken their courses. And I really got to know how to use the software. I love it. So time out, this was actually not a planned answer. I had no idea you were going to say that.

Exactly. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, when something's good, you know, you want to use it and share it with other people. That's awesome. So tell me about let's go back to sending pitches. Because it strikes me that when you think about the amount of time that you spend, just looking for work, you know, your researching companies, you're trying to find their email address, you're tweeting them, you're pitching them. How much time should you spend looking for work?

And how is that going to compare to the amount of time you actually spend working, particularly as a beginner? In the beginning, you will spend much more time seeking out work and pitching than you will actually doing work, at least in my experience and the experience of other freelancers that I've worked with. How much is that ballpark? Oh, my gosh. Well, I mean, I would say probably 75% pitching, 25% working. And, you know, pitching slash building your portfolio, managing that, you know, all the things to get started. to build that foundation. That brings up a good point, too, is that I, in the beginning, and even now, I have never used job boards. So, you know, a lot of people will say, well, why would I want

to spend all this time pitching and seeking it out myself? Why can't I just use a job board? And time out by job boards, you're referring to something like Upwork.com or, you know, the, like, boards where jobs are, like journalism, jobs.com, those types of boards. I would say traditional job boards. Yes. Right. There are some freelance job boards out there that are actually really good. So you do have to sift through the ones that you may or may not want to spend the time on. And that's what I did. I just basically stayed away from any traditional job boards in the beginning. And why was that? I did try them out. And I found that they just didn't work for me because they didn't give me the control that I was looking for. They

gave a lot of basically what a traditional job board did for me is put me back in the mindset of being an employee because I was having to pitch my services and then compete on like pennies, basically, and, you know, sell somebody on what I was doing and then they would do, you know, they would work with me if it was a good idea for them. And I wanted it to be more of a mutual partnership, not so much that I worked for a client as an employee mindset. So that's why I chose to pitch directly instead of going through a traditional job board site. Hmm. And one of the criticisms that I've heard of many job board sites as well is that is that sometimes, because there are so many candidates, oftentimes freelancers find themselves competing on price. Yes.

Versus if you take that more direct route and open a one-on-one line of communication with somebody at a company, particularly if it's a smaller business, then you have a relationship-based relationship as opposed to, you know, more of that. that transactional needle in a haystack, here's my resume type of relationship? Yeah, absolutely. That's what you want to do, is build those relationships and not just have transactions, especially as a freelancer. Your word is really powerful. Your reputation is really powerful. That's basically all you have, your connections to other people. So it's much more important to build that aspect, in my opinion, than to just go straight for, you know, a job board site. Would you recommend that a person who wants to freelance find some type of a niche,

or would you recommend that they go broad? And by niche, I'm referring to, you know, you have a background in accounting, so you started out writing for finance-related publications, you know, banks, car insurance, Yahoo finance. Would you recommend that somebody also kind of pick one vertical like that, pick one topic and stay within that? I would actually say it depends on where you're at with your freelance work. So if you're new to it and it's just a beginning side hustle, I actually encourage people to try different things.

Be more general with your topics. Try targeting different startups or different companies in different niches too. I actually got that question just recently. You know, should I niche down? Should I try out these different things? And in the beginning, I was everything from a social media manager for a financial startup to a blog editor for investing website. I mean, I did have one common thread. Like you said, it was mostly finance related.

But there were other companies that weren't. You know, I just wanted to work with them or I wanted to try it out. And now I strictly do freelance writing for small business websites and entrepreneurship-based topics. So it's even niched down more since the beginning. But in the beginning, I like to start. say, just experiment with it and try and see which ones would be the best fit. However, I do think as you go on, you probably will naturally niche down and you will make more money doing that. So start broad and then find what works and then keep niching in the path of what works.

Yes, yes. How do you handle rejection? That is a tough one. It's taken me a long time to get through that too. Basically, what I had to learn was it's not personal. And a lot of people, if they reject, you know, me or my pitch or something, it's probably because it's not the best fit. And I want to work with people who are really good fits for me and for them. You know, there's no use in trying to make it fit and stuff like that. But is it emotionally difficult? It is. You know, you have to take it as, uh, that it's not personal and that, you know, they may or may not like my stuff because they just didn't give it the chance or they, you know, it's not the best fit or something like that. So it is a.

emotional to have to go through that, but you do have to kind of, you have to keep doing it and keep getting rejected and then it kind of gets better. I know that's a terrible way to have to go through it, but the more that it happens, the more you realize it's just business and you're just trying to make a living just like they are, so it's not personal. How do you develop a skill that you can sell? In your case, for example, you had a background in accounting. How did you learn how to be a writer? That's one of those things that you kind of have to reach back and take from your past, like past past. And I call it making it a lateral transition. So I actually used to write for my school newspaper and I was really good in my English, you know, class.

And I did a lot of activities related to that. I also had a mom who was an English lit professor. My dad's a published author. So it kind of was always in my blood. I just never paid attention to it, I guess. And is that what you would recommend for the listeners? Yeah, yeah, kind of go back and see, like, what did you do in high school or what small, you know, thing did you maybe your parents do that you've kind of picked up or something?

And how can you mesh that with your already built up experience and skill through, like, work or school or college or whatever degrees you have? And that's kind of what I did was I said, okay, I'm going to try out this writing thing, mix it with my knowledge of finance and accounting, and see what happens. and it worked really well. So find some maybe latent or secondary skills that you have, mix it with what you already know, and then start pitching it and see whether or not it works. Yeah.

And if it works, do more of it. And if it doesn't work, then try something new until it does. Absolutely, yes. How do you continue to develop that skill over time? That takes a lot of discipline, a lot of daily exercises and just basically, you know, putting in the work. It's the same thing as if, you know, you were an artist or you were playing the piano and I quit playing the piano when I was like 19. So if I had kept doing that, I would have had a really good, not only confidence built up in myself, but a really good skill and something that would come naturally. And that's what I did with writing.

I basically wrote every single day, not necessarily something that was published, but just writing in a journal or writing online to just get my thoughts out. And you have to do that with it, whether it's design work or editorial work, it's just get in and play around with it and do it every single day and make it part of your practice. Deliberate daily practice. Yes. Final question. For anyone who's listening who maybe already has a side hustle and is wondering whether or not they're ready to go full time with it, how do you know when you're ready? For myself, it presented itself when I basically had to make it change. choice. My job was becoming overwhelming. My full-time day job was becoming overwhelming, and I could no

longer split my focus. And I didn't want to give up my side hustle. It was offered me a lot of freedom. It showed me that I didn't have to work in an office like a cubicle all day. It gave me a lot more opportunity to spend with my family and friends. And so I began to see that my job wasn't necessarily the only important thing in my life and that I wanted to actually have a life. So once you get to a certain crossroads or somewhere where you have to choose between your side hustle work and your day job work, because honestly it gets to a point where you can only spend so much time and you can't scale it anymore. And one of those has to give. And for me, it took two years to get to that point. Some people, it's 18 months a year, whatever. But I never initially wanted to quit my job. It just

came to a point where I had to make a decision and that's the path I chose. Wow. What's interesting to me about the answer that you just gave is that I've heard some people talk about money-related indicators. You know, I've heard some people say, well, when you're making more from your side gig than you are from your full-time job, that's when it's time to make the transition. But your answer is based more around time rather than money. Yes, I always see things in times and seasons. And I've learned that. that as my business personality, I know myself really well as a business person. And when I see that my own productivity is changing, my own styles and my passions and my ideas, and when all

those start shifting, I noticed that I need to start making a change. And that's what happened. I didn't want to give up the freedom that I had created and all this new creativity that I had. And so it got to a point where, yes, the money was good to have. And I was, started saving up knowing that something was going to change soon. But honestly, I didn't have as much money saved up as I wish I did. How much did you had saved? My goal was to save $10,000, but I only had $7,000 saved up when I quit. And how many months of runway is that? What are your expenses per month? Well, I was saving from the middle of the fall of the previous year and into January, February, the next year. And I actually ended up quitting my job May.

of that year. So it was about an eighth month run trying to save money for that. And it would cover about three months of expenses, like bare minimum expenses. I was trying to do between four and six, you know, getting to that goal. But at the time, I was engaged and my fiance's mom was going through a bunch of medical problems. And so we needed to quit and move to help her faster. So sometimes life has other plans for you. That's why you have to be ready emotionally to take those on even if you're not there quite financially. But it still sounded like you had your, you know, a lot of good financial ducks in a row. You had enough money saved up to cover three months of expenses.

Yes, yeah. And you already had clients that you were already working with. You already had two years of assignments under your belt that you could build upon. Yes, I did have a really good foundation. I did have an idea of, you know, the amount of money that I would need. And then I did have a good portfolio already built up. So everyone's time is different. but I would say having a good foundation to start on is really helpful.

That way you won't have to maybe take on another job afterwards or the freelancing isn't paying for everything and it becomes so stressful. Right. Cool. Well, thank you so much, Carrie, for sharing your story about how you started a side hustle and then transitioned it into a full-time thing, full-time entrepreneurship. Yeah, yeah, I really appreciate the chance to share. It's been great.

Where can the listeners find you if they want to learn more? Well, I have my website is carefulsense.com, and that's where I just basically blog about all my freelance experiences and the way that I manage my freelance business, mostly around the financial part of it. So if you're interested in learning more about side hustling and going full-time freelance, that is a great resource. Excellent. Thank you so much, Carrie. Thank you. Thanks again to Carrie. What's coming up next on the Afford Anything podcast? What's down the pipeline? Well, next week, you're going to hear my A's to your cues. I answer the questions that you submit on the next episode, the Ask Paula episode.

And after that, we have a really exciting interview with a guy by the name of Chris Gillibault. He is the author of four New York Times bestselling books, including The Art of Nonconformity, the $100 startup, and most recently a book called Born for This, all about finding work that you love. he also has traveled to 193 countries. That is, every country in the world, as determined by the United Nations list of member states. How did he travel to 193 countries? And what advice does he have

for living a remarkable life in a conventional world and finding the work that you were born to do or the hobby that you were born to do? So that's what's down the pipeline for us. Now let's review some of the lessons that we learned from today's interview. What have we learned from this conversation that we've had with Carrie? First of all, I, again, am a huge proponent of people earning extra money on the side. Even if you never want to quit your day job, I very much believe that everyone should diversify their

income stream a little bit so that you don't have all of your eggs in one basket. You don't want 100% of your income to come just from one source. And one of the key takeaways that I learned from this conversation with Carrie is that getting that second source of income, doesn't require you to go get a second job. That's what a lot of people think. That's what Carrie herself initially did. She wanted to make extra money. So she got a second job with a boss to report to and hours in which she had to show up. And then she realized, hey, wait a second. If I'm just earning pocket change on the side, I could do this in a way that's much more self-directed. And that's when she began looking into ways that she could start a small business, a micro business on the

side. That's one of the lessons from her story that I want to draw out. And the second one is that her micro business wasn't in her quote unquote field of expertise. She looked into what her latent skill set was and found something else that she was good at, found a secondary skill that she held, and combined it with her primary skill in order to figure out what it was that she had to offer, what she could sell. So she realized that she's knowledgeable about accounting. She's pretty good at writing, the combination of those two might be a saleable asset. And then, the third takeaway is that she didn't go the traditional job board route, because she didn't want to compete with dozens of other candidates. Racing towards the bottom in terms of price in order

to land that gig, she recognized that she might be able to get more work and better pay for her work if she took a more proactive approach and started pitching companies directly on her services. And I'd like to emphasize that as well because there are a lot of people who think that if they want to earn extra money on the side as a freelancer or as a consultant, their only option is to list their services on a website like Upwork.com and then wait for somebody to contact them. But that proactive approach of reaching out to other companies, sending pitches, following up. And those are the steps that you have to take in order to launch your own small business on the side, whether it's as a writer or a designer or a programmer or a consultant, whatever it is that you want to do

in order to make a little bit of extra money, which you can then use to pay off debt, build investments, and get yourself out of their rat race just a little bit faster if that's what you're going for. So those are some of the core lessons that I heard from today's conversation. Let me know what you thought. Reach out to me on Twitter at Afford Anything. If you liked this episode, please head to iTunes and leave us a review. Reviews are super helpful in helping us grow this show, get better guests, expand the platform. So please, please head to iTunes and leave a review for the Afford Anything podcast. Remember to subscribe to the show if you haven't done so already. And if you'd like to subscribe to updates about the show, head to podcast.offordanithing.com

where you can get weekly updates about new episodes. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. I'll catch you next week. Hey, Jay, this is a weird question, but have you ever had a pedicure? No, I have not. I've had, what is it, when your fingers?

Manicure. Yeah, you've had one? Well, I've had, like, ex-girlfriends do them for me. I haven't done, like, a professional one. Oh, what did you think? I like them. I actually used to, back in my, like, punky days, I used to color them, like, black and blue, my nails.

And then when I got older and more mature, I started using a clear and manicure stuff. You should totally go back to black and blue nails. I do. Every Halloween I do it. Show up to the next conference like that. All right. You'd hear me? I'd double dog dare you.

All right, I'll do it. At the next FinCon, I'll color my nails. Sweet. And anyone that hears this can prove me right or wrong if you show up at the conference to do.