Afford Anything - Mrs. Dow Jones: Your Childhood Is Running Your Bank Account

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

#715: She grew up with a Goldman Sachs dad. She still ended up broke in her 20’s. Here's what changed. Haley Sacks - known online as Mrs. Dow Jones - joins us to talk about the five-step financial framework she calls IBIZA. Despite every advantage, she spent her twenties anxious, financially dependent, and charging dinners to her parents' credit card. One birthday trip to a Toronto restaurant crystallized the problem: she couldn't afford the life she wanted, so she borrowed someone else's money to fake it - and spent the rest of the night avoiding her phone while her mom texted about the charge. We talk about how money beliefs form by age seven, even when parents never say a word about finances. Haley's father had watched wealthy clients' children lose ambition and kept money out of the family conversation entirely. The lesson Haley absorbed anyway: money comes from outside yourself. The IBIZA framework walks through five steps - identify your earliest money memory, interrupt the patterns it created, zhuzh your mindset by replacing limiting beliefs, and act. The final step is tactical: a 15-minute timer, one small action, and a monthly money date to review spending and set goals. We also get into the concept of financial energy - the idea that you have a finite amount of mental bandwidth for money decisions each day. Spending it on coupons and skipping lattes leaves nothing left for the moves that actually build wealth: negotiating a raise, automating savings, maxing out tax-advantaged accounts. Haley also breaks down learned financial helplessness - the belief that the system is too broken to bother trying - and why pushing back against it puts you ahead of most people before you've done a single thing. Timestamps: Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times. The provided timestamps are approximate and may be several minutes off due to changing ad lengths. (00:00) — Your Childhood Is Running Your Bank Account (08:42) — Money beliefs form by age 7 (11:35) — Why financial independence matters (13:00) — The Momofuku story (17:04) — "Financial energy" — and why you're wasting it (24:35) — The IBIZA framework, explained (28:32) — I: Identify your money origin story (31:07) — "If you don't control your money, it controls your life" (32:31) — How pop culture shapes money beliefs (46:51) — I: Interrupt old patterns (54:24) — Learned financial helplessness (55:59) — Z: Zhuzh your mindset (59:06) — The Tyra Banks story (1:02:54) — A: Act — the 15-minute starter move (1:06:18) — The monthly money date Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Most personal finance advice tells you to obsess over every tiny purchase. Today's guest says that's exactly the problem. So we're going to talk about where to actually put your financial energy and my penny pinching is a distraction. We'll also talk about how you learned bad money habits because your money habits were formed before you were seven years old. We'll discuss how to find them, interrupt them, and replace them with ones that will actually help you build wealth. Welcome to the Afford Anything podcast, the show that knows you can afford anything, not everything. This show covers five pillars, financial psychology, increasing your income, investing, real estate, and entrepreneurship, acronym Double I Fire. I'm your host, Paula Pant. I trained in economic reporting at Columbia. And on today's episode, we are joined by Mrs. Dow Jones.

Her real name is Haley Sacks, but under the social media named Mrs. Dow Jones, she has over 700,000 followers. across Instagram, TikTok, and other social media platforms. She was named 40 under 40 by Fortune Magazine in 2020. She was also 40 under 40 again in 2023, also by Fortune magazine. She was creator of the year by Ad Week and Money Magazine named her their changemaker of 2023. In today's episode, we talk about why it is that you can track every dollar, you can read every personal finance book and you can still feel like you're getting nowhere.

We're going to talk about why that happens and what you should do instead. How do you move the needle to discuss that? Here is Mrs. Dow Jones. Hi, Haley. Hi, Paula. Thanks for joining the show. I'm so excited to be here. Haley, you grew up as a rich kid. Your dad is a private wealth manager for Goldman Sachs and you grew up on the Upper East Side. Yes. Don't turn it off. Everyone's like, okay, I'm done. I'm going to hate me already. I can't even imagine that life. Take me back to like when you were five. What were your thoughts about money as a rich kid? I think we all grow up surrounded by, I feel like, socioeconomically, these neighborhoods that are similar to us, like whether you grow up with money or without money or your middle class or any of those things. And at that time, there was no internet. So all that I really knew was. what was around me. A, I thought it was normal that kids were going on spring break or, you know,

there was a lot of child care, or we were all like taking cello, you know, or studying French. I think something that I really noticed about money was how it gave you power. And so I was always interested in that and how it made things feel a bit more glamorous and fun. How so? Well, I mean, maybe not when I was five. Yeah. But in general, you know, I've always loved celebrity culture. And I feel like that is so, the glamour of that is so intertwined with wealth because there's so much spending that happens with celebrities that like makes them feel like they're on a different plane than you. Like they feel aspirational because of how they are, you know, using their money. Right, right. That conspicuous consumption. Yeah, which is so dangerous,

but, you know, it just is sort of the truth that I think you're asking my first perception of like what was money. I think I just thought it was so cool and something that I wanted more of, but I had no idea how to make it or earn it, but I really wanted to talk about it and like be around it. When did you realize that you were rich? When did you realize that what was around you was not normal? Well, what's so funny, and I think this is just true for anyone, comparison is so difficult with finances. I didn't have student debt. I went to private school, like all of these things that were really comfortable. We went on vacation. But there were always kids that had so much more money than I had. You know, like there was a girl Natalie in my class who would pick me up with her driver to go to school and like,

you know, oatmeal that her cook had made her. And I, you know, would have like a little bite of it. So it was always like, okay, Natalie is richer than me. Or, you know, the same feeling that any, like, we're all on this hamster wheel. I think unless you're like, and Jeff Bezos is only the fourth richest man in the world. So I'm sure he's like three, two, one. What do they have? What kind of cook is making them oatmeal. You know, I want to steal that cook. Right, right. Although, once you get up to Jeff Bezos level, I mean, wealth is so, it's all on paper, so it's all really theoretical. Like, there's such a difference between a person's net worth versus that liquid income expressed in your monthly spending. Totally. And I think that something that was, what,

similar for me with, like, anyone was just how I wasn't taught anything about money. Despite the fact that I grew up in a very wealthy zip code, it wasn't as though there were discussions about, you know, like I always tell people like tax your kids allowance, set up custodial raw thirees. Like there's all these great ways to teach your kids about wealth that I certainly will do when I have children. But none of that was happening. So, you know, it was something that felt aspirational, but also so far out of reach. Why was that? Like, have you ever asked your parents why they didn't teach you about money? Well, I mean, my dad, his job is working with families who have immense wealth.

He has seen so many kids whose parents had means just lose ambition, blow it all. Maybe they just never be able to really self-realize and find a way to make a name for themselves. And so I think that as a reaction to that, he wanted to like keep money really full. far out of the conversation in our family. And despite the fact that we were in this Tony neighborhood, try and make things as low-key as possible, maybe almost to a detriment. Right. Just because he was always scared of that happening. Not that we have that amount of money at all, you know, but just I think that was scary. Right. And I also think he struggled growing up. And so also maybe it was a gift to us as well to be like, well, I didn't have,

you know, they're not going to have to worry about this in the way that I do, which I think a lot of parents relate to. You want to protect your kids from what you went through. Right. And the kind of funny part about that that I guess a lot of parents don't realize is that when money is not overtly discussed, kids pick up, they still pick up lessons. They just might be picking up the wrong ones because they're just looking at context clues, but without proper context. Yeah. And our money relationships are formed by the time we're seven years old. even if you're not saying to a seven-year-old, here's how to budget, they're still understanding exactly from how you're moving with money. Okay, like money is something that you should feel anxious about,

or money is something that we never have enough of, or, you know, like all these feelings, and then that's what you bring into adulthood. Or money is something that we always have to look beyond ourselves to have. We can't rely on ourselves for it, which was something that I really picked up in childhood. So at what point did you then, like, embrace taking control of your own money? you kind of went through this, and I don't want to use the word journey because it's so overwork. So burning. Yeah, exactly.

But you went through the transition of growing up in an environment that provided everything, but you lacked autonomy to where you are now, where you have total autonomy and control and knowledge over how you spend money. Yeah. And how you manage money. Or first of all, Paula, I just want to say that I would be an asshole to come complain about any sort of leg up that I had financially, especially right now with everything that's happening. And it just feels like, you know, for most Americans, they're just on this hedonic

treadmill of debt and inflation and wages aren't keeping up. And the housing crisis and it's, AI is taking all the jobs. And there's so much out there that makes you feel helpless. And I know that it seems like this sheet sheet to just be born rich. And then everything. will be, you know, a okay. And look, money solves a lot of problems. So I can't say that that's 100% not true if I ever needed to go to therapy, which is huge. I needed rent or, you know, like these things that are so healthcare, clothing, you know, all these fundamental things, that takes a lot of pressure off to have that. But something that I think is universal is whenever you're relying on money that's not yours, be it maybe you're in a relationship where you're

financially reliant, you're in debt. So you're relying on the government or credit cards for your cost of living or maybe your parents are paying for things. Whenever your money is not your own, it comes with so many strings attached and that keeps you really small. Now, the strings attached, is it that your parents, and this isn't really so much about you because you've seen outside of your own case study, you've seen this play out amongst your peers as well, is it that parents are strict and so they want to dictate or govern the way that you, you know, what you major in or what career you go into or who you marry or when you marry, those types of things where you live?

I mean, yes, absolutely. I think there's like so much expectation. But yeah, it's also just like, yeah, there's a right and wrong answer. Like when someone's paying for things, it's like they get to make the decision of if what you're doing is approved. And that's why I'm so obsessed with financial. independence because I'm like, wow, no one can stop me. I can do whatever I want. Literally, the world's my oyster. I want to go on a trip tomorrow. I want to donate to a charity. I want to

move neighborhoods. I want to have a dog. I want to, you know, have kids. Whatever I want to do in this crazy life, I can do because I have the money to do it. And I don't have to ask anyone for permission. And that has been the greatest gift that I've ever given myself. Is it the idea that somebody else has authority, even if that authority is not exercised? Or is it that in some cases, that authority is overly exercised and you end up kind of living a life that's not yours? When I was 24, at that point, I was working in comedy. So I worked for David Letterman. I was doing a lot of like stand up and improv on the Lower East Side. But I was also hustling. So like it was not the sort of like rich kid situation where my parents were like, here's all this money,

just do whatever you want. My apartment was around 1,200. $500, they paid for half of it, and then I had a credit card for emergencies that I would sometimes abuse, and then I would get in trouble for it. I was working at a Pilate Studio, I was nannying, and then I had this job as a page. But it wasn't like I was growing wealth, but I definitely had, you know, I had some jobs. I was making money. It was my 24th birthday, and I went to go visit my friend, Rianan in Toronto. It was 2015 or something, and so like Momofuku was a really big deal. Remember it, like, just started. And like, everyone was like, oh my God. noodle bar, it's so cool. So we went to the one in Toronto. And it was such a cool night. I was wearing

like something vintage. I felt so cool about myself. And then the check came and I saw the number. And I was like, ooh, like definitely can't afford that with my like babysitter Pilates, David Letterman page money. I guess I'm going to put it on my parents credit card. And the moment that I did, I could feel like the anxiety of knowing that like then I was going to get all these texts and inquiries. of like, oh, what was that charge? Why do you think that you can spend that money? You know what I mean? Coming for my ass about that dinner when, like,

I just wanted to go to Moafuku and have fun of my friends, but because I didn't have my own money. And frankly, I should have asked for permission, but I didn't. Because I think I was ashamed of not having money. It put me in this stressful situation where I was then, like, avoiding looking at my phone that whole evening because I was like, my mom is definitely like on my case. And she was.

Your mom texted you that night. Yeah, that night. what's this charge? Like ask at least. You know what I mean? And it's her money. She should ask. But like it was, and it was disrespectful that I did that without asking. But like there were just so many incidents of that where like I couldn't afford the life that I wanted. And so then I was using money that wasn't mine to get there. And then it put me in situations where I felt small. And I didn't have autonomy over my life or my decisions. And I was living with all this anxiety. And what was worse is that I didn't really see a way out because I think that I sort of thought, I never, no one ever empowered me to think that I could make money or grow wealth. Yeah, which is surprising to me because I would assume that in like the best of the best private schools, they would be preparing you for the best of the best careers. No.

Wow. No. Really? No, there was no financial literacy taught. And I do think that's something that really does need to change immediately. In California, they're going to add financial curriculums to schools, which I think is so important, but it's like you should leave high school knowing how to do your taxes, knowing how to make a budget, you should take a class on basic salary negotiation, just all these things that you

sort of need to be an adult that should be so normalized, never taught. Right. And then was never taught in college either. I took in so much of the messaging that it wasn't for me too, and that it also, that in order to be financially successful, I was going to have to really deprive myself, which was something that I was clearly avoiding by, you know, spending money in my parents' card or I was scared of the deprivation, which I think a lot of people relate to. It sounds horrible. What I realized was it's actually, you know, something that I was totally capable of. Right, right. Because you're talking about a time period. So if we're going back to 2015, that was a time period in which when you went online to look up, how do I be good with money.

That was peak the simple dollar, right, where Trent Ham would talk about bisecting dryer sheets. Like you're cutting up your dryer sheets. When I went to go learn about money online, I watched a video about rewashing paper towels. Wow. So I was like, wow, this is. Can paper towels be rewashed? They were like, when they fall apart?

I don't know. I guess if you got like a good, maybe bounties like got more going on than we think. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So and, you know, it just makes you feel I'm all about making more money. I really come from an abundant mindset. And so I think all those feelings of cutting back, don't buy the latte, shaming us for our purchases, like telling us that we're so frivolous.

really affected me. You've got these 10 rules. One of the points that you make in one of the rules is that a lot of people spend a lot of energy on the wrong things because you're spending all of this energy doing something that will ultimately save you $2 and you're not negotiating for a raise. I'm so glad that you brought that up, Paula, financial energy is what I coin it. It has really changed my life. I don't know if you relate to this, but I feel like, Every day I wake up and I think, okay, I'm only going to have the green juices today and I'm going to run a triathlon and I'm going to cure cancer and donate to a million charities and do my whole to-do list and see my parents. And like we think that we have all this energy for all these things. And then by 4 p.m., I'm usually like, I need a cookie where it's a glass of wine.

I'm tired. I need a nap. We really run out of steam fast as humans. And I think that happens even more so with finances because it can be very emotional to look at your finances, take action on your finances. It can be quite draining. Right. I feel like we were given so the short end of the stick. They told us to use our financial energy on things like couponing, on things like skipping the latte, on things like, just be really nice at work and do a good job.

And they'll take care of you. You don't need to ask for a raise or things like that. You know, all these things that we're sort of in our mind of how to be in the world as a sophisticated adult were actually such a waste of time and don't move the needle. You know, when in reality, it's like, okay, if you have this finite amount of financial energy, what's the best use of it? Okay, well, I should focus on making more money. I should focus on automation because a month from now, I might not want to look at my credit

card statement. So I got to make sure that it's being paid on time and that I have these foolproof systems. even if I, as a human, am fallible. You know, I got to focus on building my financial literacy, instead of focusing so much on, like, cutting coupons, how can I learn more about compound interest and how maybe I could max out my tax advantage retirement accounts, you know? So these things that really would move the needle forward

and that are actually going to, in 30 years, create such a difference in your financial life versus those small changes that are really just distractions. Right, right. So let's stay on this topic, this is something that I've grappled with for a very long time because, you know, you hear these contradictory statements that are both true. I guess wisdom is holding multiple statements that seem to be in contradiction simultaneously. On one hand, it's true that it's not just what you make,

it's what you save. There's truth to that. And yet there's also truth to you can't shrink your way to greatness or you can't budget your way into wealth. 100%. Well, I talk a lot about this idea of action money. And this is why you even see like high earners. Like you're talking about me growing up wealthy. There's so many families that I know from growing up who did not keep their wealth because they were spending so much to keep up with the Upper East Side Perceptions and keep up with the Joneses. And then even though they were making a lot of money, they were spending so much money so there was nothing left over. But meanwhile, a janitor in Vermont died with $8 million. Oh yeah. Ronald. Yeah. Ronald, somebody. Yeah, Ronald, of course.

Ronald. We all know Ronald. Yeah. One of the best Ronalds of all time. So it really is just about being able to have a Delta leftover at the end of the month. So you're not spending everything that you make. And then having the financial wisdom of knowing what are the steps to take with that leftover money. So it's not just sitting in your savings account or worse, your checking account, doing nothing. And like you're looking at it every time you open your bank account thinking, wow, this is awesome. Look at how much money I've saved, you know, where you're actually having it grow for you and compound and move your financial life forward. You have a framework that you talk about. It's called Ibiza. Let's walk through that framework. Start with the eye. Money is so emotional. I always say, like, I can teach you all this stuff, but it's never going to stick. And I've seen it with tens of thousands of students that I've taught. It's never going to stick if you, and I've seen it myself, too, if you don't figure out,

why you're making these decisions and sort of what's driving it and the core reason. I mean, have you seen that in your own financial way? Oh, yeah. Yeah. On this show, we covered these five pillars. Cool. The first one is financial psychology. Exactly.

And it's the foundational pillar because if you don't get the psychology right, I mean, it's just, it's foundational. Yeah. Nothing else can happen unless you get the psychology right. 100%. And it's very much because we start with these invisible scripts about money that we're not even consciously aware of. And unless we challenge those scripts and we challenge our most deeply held beliefs about money, you know, you can't take action with your hands unless your head

believes it first. 100%. I'm going to try something with you that you sort of did to me already, but do you remember your first money memory? Oh. Hmm. Okay. I would say as a kid, my mom would sit at the dining table and she'd clip coupons. And then she knew that bread was cheaper at one grocery store and bananas were cheaper at the other grocery store and milk was cheaper at the third grocery store. And then all day Saturday, she would take me with her and we'd go to grocery store A and B and C and D. It would take the whole day just to do a grocery run. But it was because she knew exactly what was cheapest where. And we spent a lot of time doing that.

Those are like some of my most formative money memories, which really it's the memory of, you know, it sounds good, quote unquote good on the surface. Like it sounds a waste of financial energy. It's such a waste of time. Yeah. Yeah. You like are so exhausting and take so much logistics. And yeah, that is.

Right. She would imagine if she had put that same energy that she had put towards couponing, which by the way is like that takes a lot of brain. power. That's hard. It would have been, it would have been so much easier for her to just, like, learn how to buy an index fund. That would have been so much more simple, but no one ever teaches that. So with that idea of being so frugal and couponing, did you feel like that came out later in your life too? Definitely. So my story of my 20s is sort of the opposite of yours, where I, in my 20s, had tremendous financial anxiety and a huge scarcity mindset.

because I was worried that there was never going to be enough money. And so I reacted to that worry by just clinging on to every penny and being frugal to the point where it was detrimental to my life. So I had to really unlearn that and like teach myself that it was okay to spend. When I look back on my life so far, most of my mistakes have been mistakes of not spending enough. Like I look at my business. Yeah. I have that. And, you know, my business, I think, has been. undercapitalized because I've had this fundamental hesitation to, you know, when you hire an employee, you're taking a risk and you're taking like a six-figure risk when you're hiring a full-time employee.

You're like, I'm going to spend six figures for one year of this person's time in the hopes that this might pay off, but it might not. That's tremendously frightening, particularly for someone who came from a scarcity mindset. We all have the same story at the end of the day, which is like we are. these little kids who are just carrying these same money beliefs from when we were children, and then we have to find a way to unlearn them and grow wealth on our own if we want to have financial freedom. Right, exactly.

So, which you've done, good for you. But anyways, in Ibiza, the first step is identify. So you're right on track. You found your money memory. You figured out exactly how it showed up in your life. And now you've been able to unpack that and hopefully are making changes to live differently. Right, right. And there's some stat you have about how, what is it, 70 or 80%?

of people say that their biggest money memory that they have, like really comes from their parents. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. It's all from your parents. It's all from childhood. But what's so weird is, like, in most households, it's really not talked about.

Actually, a lot of people who become financial experts, I feel like are in those situations where they are at a young age having to take control of the finances in a house. Like a lot of maybe you're in like a first generation household where like you see your parents taking advantage of in the system, which has. happen so much because it can be really hard for people who move to America to, like, feel control with credit and things like that. It seems like they almost are these 10-year-old future millionaires where they're like, they know to like hustle the money at the lemonade stand and put it into the stock market. But I don't think that you need to be someone who had

that sort of childhood or upbringing to be able to take control of your financial life. Right. Whatever your childhood story is, there are healthy, yeah, there are healthy things you learned and there are unhealthy things you learned. And as an adult, your responsibility is to unlearn the unhealthy things. 100%. Yeah. And you're so capable of doing it. You know, I look at financial wellness is like the third pillar of health that we don't talk about. Like we have physical fitness, we have mental fitness. And I think financial fitness is so important too. But it's like, you know, people, it's so normalized to have trainers or go to the gym or go to a workout class or a lot of people have therapists or they're reading self-help books or those things of self-help podcast, which is why

You know, your podcast is so great, but in the financial realm, it's not as, like, encouraged. You're either, you feel like you have to be a certain kind of person to be interested in it. And otherwise, you just sort of ignore it. But when you do that, it prevents you from living a 360 degree, like, fully whole life. Yeah. Well, that's absolutely true. And it goes back to you, you phrased something really well. I'm trying to remember the exact wording, but it's like money.

Actually, you know what? I'm going to. Look at it. I love it. The one about control. money. If you don't control your money, it controls you. Yeah, if you don't control your money, you control your life. And that's why I say, like, yes, like I come from this privilege upbringing, but it's like the core feeling is the same for everyone. If you're not in control of your finances and

someone and like you have to look outside of yourself to live the life that you want, then yeah, you're just like a little baby. You know, you're not in control of your life. You're not in control of your choices. And it keeps you feeling really small and prevents you from being the best version of yourself. Right. Like I would rather live smaller, but live on my own. which I didn't know this in my 20s. I would have probably been so much happier had I not been like, okay, fine, I'll just put the momofuku or my parents' card or whatever and then dealing with that shame. And then like I have to like go through that whole cycle with my mom, which was like

something that had been repeated through my life, you know, and like without ever a solution versus just like we could have gone to a different restaurant. You know what I mean? Like that probably would have made me feel so much better. Right. Understanding money etiquette, understanding how to communicate about money and feeling comfortable putting your goals first outside of, you know, spending money to look like you have money because I think so many purchases and experiences that we do, that we go for are just driven

by that. We've talked about your early childhood experiences with money inside of your family, particularly from your parents. But there's also the social component of messages that we learn about money from broader society. 100%. You mentioned celebrity culture earlier. can you talk about that both positive and negative messaging?

Well, I mean, this is like my favorite topic, Paul. Because you know that I'm obsessed with celebrities and money. I feel like everyone is obsessed with pop culture, at least I am. Like I love to read like the Daily Mail and things like that. But when I first started especially, I felt like people were not really that interested in learning about their personal finances because we all have that resistance. And from, you know, maybe there's is that childhood memory. And then we're trying to avoid at all costs.

So it is a really good way in is by using celebrity. But yeah, I think that right now we're in this crazy time because when I was growing up, there was a show on VH1 or it was MTV called The Fabulous Life of. Do you remember that? No, no. Oh, my gosh. And there was this British narrator and they would take you behind the scenes of how celebrities were spending money. And it would be like, Jay-Z and Beyonce are on this yacht for a week for $500,000.

And then it would like show you throughout the yacht. And it was like the best 30 minutes of television. I would like ate it up. It was so fun. Oh, that's cool. But it also created this unrealistic expectation that that's what we should all like aspire to. Or if we don't have that, then like we are not succeeding. And I think we see that now at a microcosm online with influencers where all they present is like a positive version of their live.

and then they're telling you buy these products and you can get closer to that. Right. And then you add on top of it that the year 2026 finance is so frictionless. Like I'm looking, there's a square right there. I think if I want to have like a candy I could pay. You mean, you can just have a candy. Thank you. Wow.

How did you know? That was secretly what I was asking for. But everything is so you just use Apple pay like Apple be paying. You could be 2 a.m. and you could buy a $3,000 couch, like with your eyes half open, you know? Right. And I think also the world has become so much more stressful, too. I mean, just on paper, like the facts are, the data is there.

It's such a hard time economically, but then also we're exposed to so much more media about these realities, like the 24-hour news cycle really does take a toll. And so I think that so much of spending, too, is like just emotional regulation. Right. Something that helps me so much is, like, did I take a walk? Did I do my meditation today? Like, what was the last time I took a breath that I was noticing? Just like calming down a little bit because otherwise it's so easy to get into that just impulsive spending, frictionless spending sort of cycle.

Right. And we live in a society where emotional regulation through consumer spending is normalized. So normalized. So it's the- Yeah, the treat yourself culture. And it's like it really does form your opinion of money. Like it's like, you know, I grew up in the sex and the city generation. It's like obviously Carrie was the it girl of that.

So we're seeing a woman who like bought shoes instead of buying a house and has no idea about her finances. And then Miranda, the boring one is the one who buys a house, you know? Right. Or in legally blonde. Whenever Elle is upset, she goes right to the nail salon. Or like an Issa R in Insecure. Issa Ra is splitting her rent with her situation ship in friends.

Rachel Green is like so financially clueless. The cool, glamorous women of that time weren't about their bag. And so I think that it made it seem like it was not chic to be good with money. You know what I mean? It sort of felt like it was cooler to spend your money all on shoes. Right. And I definitely fell for that. Do you relate to that?

I feel like you were more like you were just scared of not having enough. Yeah. Well, I learned to be cool more, which is a way. worst quality. Yeah, no, I was scared of not having enough. I also had a... I was in Mofuuku, like, why was I there? I also had a fairly strict upbringing where I wasn't really allowed to watch much TV. Oh, that'll do it. Yeah. I was like, I was a third child. They didn't know where I was. I was like, seated. You were like a free range kid. Yeah. They were like, you know, and we were all so busy because I think part of being like an Upper East Side child is like you basically are booked like a CEO.

the moment school ends, you're like going from one art because it's all pre-college. Right. Yeah. So sports, this, that. And so I had, you know, I snuck in some time there to really make sure that I was up on the culture, much to my detriment. We have the opposite lives because I am pop culture clueless to almost a comical extent. Oh my God. Like to such an extent, people will make these references to like Ghostbusters or ET,

Back to the Future or Bambi. And I haven't seen any of it, you know, Star Wars. Like nothing. I just, so people make these references and I just give them this totally blank stare. Or I've learned over the years to just kind of like smile and nod, but I have like a bit of a vacant look in my eyes. And my close friends have learned to recognize it. And they're like, you have no idea what I'm referencing, do you? And I'm like, no. And they're like, I'm referencing the big Lebowski. Have you seen it? And I'm like, no. You know, and like it just. It's brave of you to admit it. Thank you for the safe space. Yeah. So what is your culture then?

We're Nepalese immigrants. Like when you are off work or like what is, you know, what are you like interested in? Yeah, you know, people have asked me that in the past. I don't know if there's really any specific thing that substituted it. I think just every other thing in my life is maybe just takes a little bit longer. I don't know what it is. Like maybe I just dally more. I don't know what it is.

It must have like so much more brain space than me who like knows every like Taylor Swift relationship timeline. I'm like jealous. But I would do with that bandwidth. But also it's good because it didn't, hopefully it didn't affect you in the same way as it affected me. Well, but yeah, I think you're able to relate to people more, you know, whereas, okay, the one pop culture reference that I do get because everyone says that I remind them of this character is Kimmy Schmidt. Oh, cute. Yeah, like everyone's in a bunker.

Yeah, yeah, everybody's like, you remind me of Kimmy Schmidt. You're just completely clueless. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So. I haven't found you clueless at all. I found you very intelligent and vivacious and interesting to talk to. Oh, thank you.

Thank you. I mean, book smart, but when it comes to Bob Culture, I'm clueless. You've got to be both. Yeah. Maybe not both, but, you know, I like books too. Yeah. And that's why honestly, I wrote a book because financial books changed my life. Mm.

And I do think that, like, that is the best way. Like, everyone is, like, there is no substitutes. You're just having a, like, you could just read one finance book. It would change your entire life. Yeah. What was the first one that I read was, I actually jumped it maybe too hard because I was like, okay, if I'm doing this, I'm going full. And I was obsessed. I became obsessed accidentally with Wall Street. So I was sort of where everything popped off for me. So it

didn't even start with personal finance. It was really about investing. And like, you know, I was like, wow, like business. And I want to know about stocks. And if a store was closing on my street, it was the end of brick and mortar, you know, like I was really bringing that to the table. I read Warren Buffett's Ground Rules, which is basically like a, 500-page tome just about compound interest. Like, if you read that whole book and you, it has all, like a lot of his shareholder letters, it's really interesting. It's a great book. I revisit it often, but like at the end of that book, if you're not just like, I need to get my money in the market working for me as soon as possible so that I can benefit from that compound interest, like there's

just no way to read it and not to feel like that. So that was super fundamental for me. And I also think like just in terms of a confidence boost because I was like, wow. No one really ever taught me this. It's definitely not marketed to me, but it's not hard. Like, why is everyone pretending that we have to, like, use all this jargon and that I need, like, advanced levels of education to understand the stock market or my financial life? It's actually pretty much seventh grade math. Right. And I just need to, like, do four or five things right. And then I can be rich, but I also don't have to make this my whole person. And I didn't make it my whole personality by accident. Yeah. So sorry. But, you know, you don't have to. Right. It's part of a full life,

but doesn't have to be your full life. Right. You don't need to day trade. You don't need to have your own business. You don't need to, like, you can live in a way that feels really comfortable and healthy for you. You don't need to over max out on the financial part of your personality unless you're me. Yeah. Or you.

Yeah. I think we both went. Yeah. Too far there. Yeah. Don't hold us back. Yeah. We both did make it our entire personality.

Oops. Yeah. Too late now. Yeah. But it's because it's fascinating. I think it's so. I find it fascinating. Me too. I still love learning about, like, my favorite part of my job is just reading. Right. It is the best. Same. Same. And we've both been doing this for over 10 years.

Yeah. And we still just find it fascinating. I know. It's sort of cool. It's like being in a relationship and you're like, you still got it. Yeah. I still get the hots for you. Like, that's what I feel. Nice. Yeah. And so with Ibiza, I-B-I-Z-A, what is the second letter I? The second letter I is interrupt. So this is where, okay, we've spent the first two steps figuring out where your financial habits are from and like what is sort of making you act or feel the way that you do about money. And then it's what you're saying. It's not your fault, but it is your responsibility. And the second I with interrupt, you start to take responsibility. So it's up to you to start to try to interrupt these patterns and act. So it's interrupting thought processes that are not serving you and interrupting patterns or habits. I guess this goes back to what we were talking about earlier with, you know, one pattern might be consumer spending for the sake of emotional regulation. 100%. Using thought stopping, taking opposite action.

A lot of people also create this huge narrative that they're doing everything wrong. So a lot of interrupt you is, it's like doing a gratitude list almost for your. finances where you have to focus on, okay, what did I do right? Because you're not going to get everything right, but oh, did I make like three positive changes this week? Let's talk about those. Let me write those down. Just being able to take a beat is really huge. But yeah, the opposite action is a big one where you want to buy that thing impulsively so you got that dopamine hit. Right. What's the opposite action of that? Okay. Maybe it is that I just am putting down my phone. It's freaking horrible. I don't want to do it. It's so fun to have your phone. But like I'm literally just

throwing it and I'm taking a walk for five minutes, taking a dramatic action to try and stop that moment. You've got to interrupt it. You know, something I do a lot. Well, not right now because I did my hair for you, Paula, but I do like cold shower, like put my hands in something cold. Cold really helps me. I even did it this morning. That will just rid my mind of toxic thinking or like actually, you know, making me want to take actions that I shouldn't, you know. Like plunging your hands in cold water? Yeah, I do always do cold showers in the morning. I put my hands in cold water, too, if like that's not available. Just, yeah, you could take an ice cube and rub it on yourself. Just like something that, like, physically shocks the body really helps you, like, bring you back down to earth.

Because sometimes just, like, sitting there, like, I have to move or, like, do something physical to, like, get my nervous system feeling different. Yeah, that is a good interrupt. I'm the first financial expert who's talking about using an ice cube as a way to get rich. You are, actually, yeah. So it's something. It means like these, like, psychological tricks if you actually, because, you know, it's not going to be easy to become a future rich person, but it will be worth it. And in those moments where it is hard, you need systems to support yourself because it's not like you're going to just wake up one day and like be this different person who's, you know, none of this happened to and who like suddenly has all this knowledge and is always

going to act perfectly. Right. Your history will always be your history no matter what. Yeah. And I think that's so important too in finance books and as financial experts for us to talk about, too, okay, we're giving you all this advice, but we might not take it. all the time. Like, no one is on a perfect trajectory, but the point is, is that if you get 70% of it right, you're going to be, you're going to have such a better life than if you didn't do anything at all. And like that 70% could literally just be like automation, asking for a raise, making sure you are living within your means. Those are pretty much enough. Having a good credit card and banking system, making sure that you're maxing at your tax advantage accounts, that you have an

emergency fund, these fundamental things, if you just get those right, you're pretty much set. It's not about that complicated. Right. You know, what's the most complicated part is just that our own minds are f***. That's why you need to go to a visa. Yeah. Yes, girl. Yeah, the most complicated part is often getting out of our own way. And it is because money is such an inherently emotional topic. Because it's value driven. It's so funny you ask about like my upbringing because it's like, Isn't that crazy that even in this like more like richer neighborhood, there still was like this feeling of not enough. It doesn't matter where you're at.

It's like money represents. And that's why also people spend so much money trying to look rich instead of being rich, which we're seeing even more now. Like the New York Times just in an article about these influencers who teach people how to fake rich, which I think is a huge issue in the millennial and Gen Z generation is this idea like learned financial helplessness, which comes. from like financial nihilism, where you just feel like, okay, I'm on this floating rock. The world is burning.

AI has taken all the jobs. Like there's no opportunity for me to ever buy a house. The system is cooked. So why even try? Let me instead just put my energy into looking rich instead of being rich. Let me ignore my credit cards. Let me just like quiet, quit at work because like I'm being passive on this journey because it's already just out to get me.

Right. And so that's a big one that you have to interrupt. Right. Because learned financial helplessness could eat you alive. Like there's so many reasons not to, right? Right. A million reasons why you can't, why you shouldn't, why there's no reason to. But at the end of the day, most people are going to listen to those reasons.

So just by not, you're putting yourself into that small group who are going to win. Right. And winning is not hard. You know, with learned financial helplessness, I'm thinking about my friend group right now. Yeah, name names, girl. Well, not naming names. But there is one person I'm thinking of who her expression of learned financial helplessness is that the way she approaches everything is by saying, oh, I don't have the money for that.

She tries to negotiate the price on everything, which in some ways it's a good thing because I mean, she's able to score deals on things. But it's like if you're with the farmers, if it's like a small business, like it's like part of money etiquette and like being a rich person is being able to say like, okay, is this coming from like a local farmer? I'm not going to like ask for these string beans to be $4 instead of five. Yeah. It's like she does it with everything ranging from, you mentioned comedy earlier, everything ranging from rent to comedy classes. Oh, rent is good.

Like she just makes deals on literally everything because the first statement out of her mouth is, I don't have the money for this. What can we do? You know, and so in that sense, she's. externalizing, like, I don't have the money for this. So how can you bend in order to take care of me? Yes, versus how can I maybe find the money so that, like, yes, by the way, I don't want to say that you shouldn't negotiate. Even just by negotiating your car insurance, if you compare rates, you can save, people save on average $1,000. So, you know, you can negotiate your rent. You can negotiate down your credit card interest rates. Like, that's so great. But I think, like, when you're negotiating

things with like small businesses. It just becomes something that is draining and like your friends are noticing. It's a bit too much. So I'll get for that. Yeah. It's. Yeah, she could look inside of herself for okay, how can I actually like afford to take like, you know, a struggling comedian taking a strategic comedy class needs the money.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's funny because sometimes it can be the right behavior for the wrong reasons. Because on one hand, negotiation generally is a good thing. Yeah.

Or like it, you know, it's a maxed out on it too much. I think it's the mindset behind it, like the mindset of I expect the world to bend in order to cater to the budget that I state that I have rather than I'm going to look inside myself to say, how can I double down, make sacrifices, not go out as much, cut my spending, work harder. You know, like 100%. Yeah, it's not the actual. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that is their financial helplessness for sure.

Yeah. And it took me a while to notice that. She's lucky to have you ever talked to her about it? No, no, I haven't. I said that might be hard to bring up. But also it's like sort of cool that you know that about her. Like you could maybe help her. Yeah. I've noticed that as an example, just another example of learned financial helplessness. Yeah, you see it everywhere. I mean, people who are listening probably see it themselves too. Yeah. You know, I definitely had it. I think it's hard not to have it in some way. Right. Yeah. And sometimes people can express it in different ways. Some people are very avoidant for example. Yeah. And also even like little mindset things where you think like other people are just smarter or better equipped to deal with money than I am, which we tell ourselves I feel like a lot. Or I used to tell myself that too. Like, oh, this is just isn't for me. I'm not the kind of person who can do this. Right. Exactly. Just these little repeating ticks that we have that keep us in place, keep us stagnant. Right. But I do just want to say like truly the majority of people have those and are completely overtaken by them. So just. by pushing back and like choosing to interrupt and go to Abiza and judge your mindset and take action, then you put yourself in the position to win. Right. But there's not that many people out on the field. Most people are just going to complain and stay stuck. Yeah.

So then it is about interrupting those thought patterns and the actions that stem from them. Yeah. So then the Z for it is josh. So like looking at your mindset and thinking about like what's my old mindset versus is my future rich mindset. Maybe your mindset is I don't deserve to be rich. And then your future rich mindset is like, I don't need to settle. I'm waking up to my worth.

Or talking about money is gross. But your future rich mindset would be like talking about money openly with trusted people is how I grow. Right. So Z for J-J-J-J, which is spelled Z-H-U-S-H. Z-H-U-Z-H. Z-H-U-Z-H. But pronounced J-O-O-J. Okay. So what does juz mean? Well, really to step into your future rich person era, you do have to

clear out your old limiting beliefs and replace them with sparkly limitless ones. So this step is all about joshing up your mindset. And I think it's really important to remember that every future rich person started where you are now. They didn't get there by accident. They got there because they believe that they could. Ninety-seven percent of millionaires believe they could. They could. be millionaires before they made a dime. So that's what I'm saying. So many people will never even try or step on the court, but the ones who do and have that belief, they're unstoppable. Have you read The Millionaire Next Door? Of course. One of the best. I love that book. Yes. So if you feel like you're capable of building wealth, then you're going to make decisions

that align with that belief and then it will become your reality. But again, this is not an overnight job. The path here is not like one and done. You're going to get it wrong, there are going to be things, that you're going to have thoughts that you have to just identify as just noise and really realize that like those old money beliefs are not the boss of you and you are creating your own money beliefs that you are consciously putting into your mind that are going to then guide your actions. Right. And that takes a lot of work, but that is something that is totally doable. But it's like, it's something that I practice. Like this morning I was like saying all these mindset things to myself about the day. Like what?

Well, I don't know. I woke up a little bit anxious. I've been doing so much press for the book, just saying things like, only good things happen to girls like me. I am smart. I'm confident. Today is going to be a great day. Things like that just makes such a difference, you know. I'm wealthy. Opportunities always find me. There's so much money out there. Why not me? Whenever I have those more negative thoughts, trying to replace them with a belief that counteracts that. because, you know, the negative thought's not true. That's just your old system. And it's so addictive to have bad feelings.

Right. You know what I mean? Like it feels so much more enticing to feel bad than it does to feel good. It's like picking a scab. You sort of want more of that bad pain. So you really have to like get past that in order to get to the next level. Yeah. You know, we had Neil Ayer on the show recently and he talked about the same concept about how

we often want to wallow in a negative feeling. It's crazy, right? And if you ask yourself, if instead you ask yourself, if you ask yourself, if you ask yourself the question, is this true, then you're, of course, immediately you want to be like, of course it's true. But then if you follow that up with like, is it absolutely, definitely, definitely, certainly the only possible truth? Yes.

Well, okay, there could be an alternate truth. I know. Is that we convince ourselves so intensely that like these are the facts. Right. But they're not. Like there's so many, there's so many other ways for things to be. Right. Exactly.

And so, yeah, even if it's corny, like doing like these things that feel so, maybe it's not your thing to like have a mantra or like consciously choose positive thinking, it really helps. Like if you're serious about getting rich and really changing your money mindset and changing your financial actions, you do have to start with your beliefs because who you believe yourself to be, that's where your actions take place from. You know, you can learn everything. want about the stock market, about getting out of debt, about crypto. I don't know what your

passion is, but it will never actually work unless you make the changes. I don't know if you're going to get this reference. Do you know who Tyra Banks says? She's a supermodel. Good job. Okay, girl. We're cooking a guess. Woo-hoo. Okay, so I'll fill you in a little bit. Tyra was a super big supermodel in the 90s, and then she was very smart. She created this hit show, America's Next Top Model. It was a huge hit. It was a huge hit. It was a It was franchise. It was in all these different countries, lots of money for Tyra. But she grew up with a lot of scarcity.

Then she just started working when she was young and basically just hoarded all of her money and never really dealt with her financial belief system and like her relationship to money. And it got to the point where, but she had accountants, you know, because she was at the point in her financial life, whatever, she needed a team. And they were like, Tyra, you need to actually start spending money. good problem to have because you're giving all of your money to taxes. So we're going to set up something for you called an F account. And this is like your f-it money where you can spend it on what really you value.

But like as an actual financial strategy, you do need to be spending more money because otherwise the government is just going to take it. So like don't you want to enjoy it? Like within her business, they wanted her to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But I always find that interesting because it's like, it's actually a bad financial example because it's like she never fixed her financial mindset and then just basically created a system around her that allowed her to like keep existing in that way.

But most people aren't going to have accountants who are like, here's your F account or like here's the antidote to all of this trauma that you have. We have to do it ourselves. Right. But it does highlight the importance of system building as well. Oh, 100%. And surrounding yourself with a very good team. Yes.

And also that like as you get more money, so much of the work. becomes, like today we're recording this on text day, not to brag. And so much of the work of becoming a future rich person is like, it's not just making money, it's how do you preserve your wealth? How do you keep more of it? You know, what are the systems that you have, you know, even with you, you're going to be hiring more people. Like, what are the ways in which that's the most advantaged for you so that you are keeping the most money at the end of the day? Because if you make $100 and you keep 85% of it, it's really different than making like $150 or $200 and keeping like 30% of it, you know? Right.

So far, we've talked about the first I is identify. The B is blame. The second I is interrupt. The Z is a juzh. Jush, fun to say. What's the A? How do we cap this all off? Well, the A is act because the thing is that when you take action, you really

create momentum, but like when you sit still, nothing really happens. So all this knowledge is so helpful, but it doesn't really matter if you don't act on it. So you start with IBI-Z, and then A is like the exact actions that you need to take to them become a future rich person. So the A is the tactical component. Exactly, that then you're set up to actually be open to and actually utilize because you've cleared out all of those limiting beliefs and your childhood trauma and you understand why you're moving in the way that you are and you're ready to make different choices. But I also start the set 5A act with just like a short 15 minute exercise because I really do believe, like I said, action creates, more action creates momentum. So I tell everyone, set a timer for 15 minutes and just in those 15 minutes,

choose one of these actions and do it. So whether that's check your credit score, cancel a subscription, email HR to ask about like your 401K match. Open all your mail. You know what everyone wants to open their mail. I hate opening mail. Go to set a time for 15 minutes. Paul, you're going to do it today. Go open all your freaking mail.

Shred the stuff that you don't need. Actually respond to what you do. But that's something that we always put off. Set up paperless billing for a bill. You know, return any online orders you've forgotten about. But just by having that little 15 minutes sort of head start, it's going to move you towards financial freedom because success breeds success. And you have to sort of create a track record with yourself that you are a future rich person. And it starts with

those really small steps. Like, you know, Rome wasn't built in a day. It's literally you could, your whole financial journey could start just by you opening all your mail. It's easier said than done because it often leads to just administrative overwhelm and financial overwhelm. That's something I hear about a lot from my audience is like, particularly for people who have been avoiding things for a while. Once you start down the rabbit hole, every task. Too many things. Yeah, it's too many things and it's overwhelming. And then every task needs to. Financial energy is zero. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that 100%. That's why you need automation. Like even if you, okay, so say you hate your bills, which I mean, hate your bills, everyone hates their bills, but say you hate opening your mail.

Yeah. When you go through your mail, instead of just going through it unconsciously, whenever you open it, think about, okay, could this be paperless? Yeah. Is there something that I could set up to make this easier next time? So then you're creating more of a system versus just you're checking out of a task that you're going to have to do again next month, you know? But also set timers and don't do it all in one day because the worst thing that you can do is burn out. That's why like really intense budgeting doesn't work either.

Like so much of becoming a future rich person is having balance. You know, I always like financial anorexia doesn't work, you know? Right. Really strict diets don't work. The pendulum will swing back. Right. So it's about creating systems and then also having room for fun and good living and things that you enjoy too because that's what's going to make it sustainable. Right.

Of the multitude of actions that people can take, there's automating your finances, there's enrolling in a Roth IRA for the first time if you haven't done so yet. Like there's just this long list of actions that a person could take. What do you think are the top priorities? I think that the top priority is really just to have a money date as like your first step and make that something that you're doing monthly, even if you don't want to. I always say I've been doing money dates for over eight years. I never really want to do it. It's like going to the gym. Just sort of like you would rather do anything else. Yeah. So a money date is. It's a set time every month. I do it on the last Sunday of every month. I would not cancel it unless like Taylor Swift on T. Do you know who Taylor Swift is? I do. Good job. Nailed it. Yes, Paula. And it is a. And it is a. And it is a. And it is a. And it is a. And it is a. And it is a. And it is a. And it is a. And it. And it is a. And it is a. And it is a. And it. And it is. And it is a. And it is. And it. And it time where I can review my, I do like an audit. I review my credit card statements, which by the way, even though I keep a close eye on things, there's always something. There's always something nefarious happening there. And most people are just like going off of vibes. They're not looking. Right. I'm reviewing any like Venmo or PayPal things. Did that friend pay me back? Did I pay that

friend? I'm reviewing invoices to make sure that I was paid. So I'm keeping a really tight eye on my bottom line, which is super important. Because if you don't, then someone else will. Yeah. It's hard to hold on to money. There's a lot out there that wants to take it from you. So you got to make sure you have a system in place to actually succeed at that. That's also when I return any packages that maybe I've forgotten about, the mail, canceling subscriptions, just like getting things in order and then setting goals for the next month. So, okay, maybe I want to go on a trip in two months. So like, you know, whenever I am going to travel, I always cut back. Even though I don't need to, it's just like a tick where I always feel like

before I'm going to go on a trip, I like, tighten things up a little bit. I don't, that is, I need to figure out from my childhood why I'm doing that because I don't remember us doing that so much. Maybe that's something I just picked up. You know, if I'm going on a trip, okay, how am I budgeting for that? Like, what am I looking out for this month? A lot of times before you travel, especially with Instagram, it makes you feel like you need to like buy so much new stuff or like do like all these like beauty treatments before.

So like if I have that time and my money date to like sort of think through, okay, what might be the hurdles that I'm going to face to like stick to my financial goals this month, it's going to make it easier for me not to fall for them. Or okay, I need to ask for a raise this month. Okay, how can I, can I schedule time on Thursday after work to chat with AI where I'm pretending that AI is my boss and we're going back and forth and I'm negotiating the raise with the AI so that when I go in, I'm really confident and I'm getting together like my wins folder of everything that I did well this year. You know, like so it also puts you in a position. to plan for the future so that you are able to succeed.

All right. So all of that stems from a once a month money date. So it sounds like money date is like just comprehensive review and planning. And don't make it too long. Like start everything small so that you want to do it again. Like I said, financial energy is finite. So don't burn yourself out on the future rich person journey. The goal is consistency.

That's literally it. Like the person who goes to the gym once is not going to be as fit as for, you know, for two hours and does it so intensely is not going to be as fit as a person who's going three times, two times a week, even if they're doing moderate training. It's the same thing with your finding. I mean, there's so much between like food and dieting and with money. Right. It's always like an easy analogy. Right. But it's true. It's just about being consistent. Do you do a money date? I've never called it that or thought of it like that. But for me, if I don't call it that and schedule it, it'll never happen. Yeah. Because I'm like very type B.

Like it's like I am, yes, I come from money, but I'm also a self-made millionaire. Let me have it. Let me have it, Paula. I did it, girl. I came from stuff, but also made some. And I would never do it. I would do anything else. I'd go to like a yodeling conference.

Like, whatever you want, wherever you invite me, if it's on, like, if I'm supposed to be doing a money date, I'm going there instead. So I have to really etch it into my calendar and make sure it's like written in blood. And then I do it. How long does it take? Well, what I'm saying is like at the beginning, like your audience that you're saying, that's really overwhelmed by financial tasks, which I totally understand. Not the whole audience, but there are some people.

No, and I get that. And something that I use a lot is the Pomodoro method. So like set a timer for 25 minutes. Right. And then just get as far as you can. Yeah. And then take a five minute break. And then you can do it again for 25 minutes.

You don't have to fix your whole financial life in one day. Wherever you're at, it didn't get that way in one day. So it's like it might take a little bit of time to untangle. But like as long as you show up with consistent action, then you're going to be way ahead of all these other people. Yeah, even 25 minutes, especially if things are really tangled up, 25 minutes every morning consistently, similar to the gym, can make a big dent. Yeah, or yeah, like, yeah, once a week every morning. Like whatever you have energy for is like what the most important thing.

Right. Showing up for yourself. And also then it builds that self-belief where you're taking action and action creates more action. So then you become, like we're talking about, okay, replacing our self image of ourselves to become a future rich person. the more that you prove to yourself by those little actions, like, okay, 15 minutes, 25 minutes, then the more you're going to start to see yourself like that and act like it. Excellent. Well, thank you for spending this time with us. Where can people find you if they'd like to learn more? Well, first and foremost, like I said, a financial book can change your life. All takes as one.

Future Rich person out on Audible. I read the whole audiobook. And then also I have a podcast called Financial T. And I'm everywhere as Mrs. Dow Jones. MRS, married to the Dow. Perfect. Yes. Thank you. Stay rich, Paula. Stay rich. Thank you to Haley, also known as Mrs. Dow Jones. What are three key takeaways that we got from this conversation? Key takeaway number one, your childhood is still running your finances. A lot of us think that our money habits come from decisions that we make as an adult, but they don't.

They come from lessons, subconscious lessons that we absorbed as kids. By the time you're seven years old, your core beliefs about money are already forming. And your parents don't necessarily have to say anything about money. You pick up their relationship with it. You pick up their habits. You pick up the vibe. You pick up the mood. You're watching.

You're absorbing. And the good news is that as an adult, once you start to name those beliefs, you can begin to change them. And our money relationships are formed by the time we're seven years old, even if you're not saying to a seven-year-old, here's how to budget, they're still understanding exactly from how you're moving with money, okay, like money is something that you should feel anxious about, or money is something that we never have enough of, or, you know, like all these feelings, and then that's what you bring into adulthood.

That is the first key takeaway. Key takeaway number two, if you are reliant on money that is not yours, you'll stay small. financial independence is not just about having a bigger number in your bank account or access to funds for the sake of lifestyle. It's about having full control over your own life. Haley talks about a birthday dinner at Molofuku in Toronto, and she charged it to her parents' credit card and then spent the rest of the night avoiding her phone, feeling shame, feeling avoidance, knowing that she was going to need to explain herself. The problem was not the cost of the dinner. The problem was that she was spending somebody else's money. And that meant that they retained authority, they retained control. Whenever somebody else is funding your life, they have a say in it. And that means you have less

autonomy. And that's why taking full control over your own money is critical. Whenever your money is not your own, be it maybe you're in a relationship where you're financially reliant, you're in debt. So you're relying on the government or credit cards for your cost of living or maybe your parents are paying for things. Whenever your money is not your own, it comes with so many strings attached and that keeps you really small. Finally, key takeaway number three. You're spending your financial energy on the wrong things. we only have so much mental bandwidth. And when your cognitive load is sapped by something, good luck. Because you only have so much attention that you can give in a given day.

Attention is even more scarce than time. And most of us have been trained to burn our cognitive bandwidth on tiny stuff that barely moves the needle. So we're skipping lattes, we're couponing, we're agonizing over small purchases. And the big stuff, like negotiating a raise, maxing out tax-advantaged accounts, earning more, being entrepreneurial, buying investments. These big things get zero attention or limited attention. Haley talks about the concept of financial energy. The idea is really simple.

You just treat your energy and your attention like a finite resource, which it is, and then spend it where it really matters. I feel like we were given so the short end of the stick. They told us to use our financial energy on things like couponing, on things like skipping the latte. When in reality, it's like, okay, if you have this finite amount of financial energy, what's the best use of it? How can I learn more about compound interest?

And how maybe I could max out my tax advantage retirement account? These things that really would move the needle forward and that are actually going to, in 30 years, create such a difference in your financial life versus those small changes that are really just distractions. Those are three key takeaways from this conversation with Haley Sachs, better known as Mrs. Dow Jones. Thank you for tuning into today's show.

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to affordanything.com slash enroll. That's afford anything.com slash enroll. We close our doors on Thursday, May 21st. You've got between now and Thursday, afford anything.com slash enroll. We close our doors on Thursday, enroll. Thank you again for being part of the Afford Anything community. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share this with your friends and family. My name is Paula Pan. This is the Afford Anything podcast, and I'll meet you in the next episode.