Afford Anything - PSA Thursday: Broadcasting Live from FinConX

Episode Date: November 13, 2020

Paula Pant and Andy Hill broadcast from Dallas, where they’re part of a bare-bones skeleton production crew that’s hosting the 10th annual FinCon, a conference for a community of personal finance podcasters, YouTubers and bloggers. On the evening before the event, they reflect on the importance of community, especially when it comes to learning about money management. Enjoy this behind-the-scenes glimpse. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to PSA Thursday. This is a special weekly-ish bonus segment of the Afford Anything podcast in which we talk about money, work, and life as it relates to 2020. If you're new to the Afford Anything podcast, these are completely unlike most of our episodes. So if you're new to the podcast, don't look to this as an example of what one of our typical episodes is like. These episodes are much shorter. They are typically hyper-focused on something very specific. For example, in the past, we've had PSA Thursday episodes about student loan repayment in the context of coronavirus and some of the new laws and changes that passed in 2020 regarding student loans. We did an episode on that. We've done an episode on donor advised funds. We've done an episode on parenting in the midst of the pandemic. So all of those are examples of episodes that we've done on PSA Thursday. You can find all of that in our archives at afford anything.com slash PSA Thursday. And today, well, okay, embarrassingly enough, the entire day today, I was thinking, I was like, wow, this is going to be great.

I rarely actually get these things out on Thursday. And if I record this tonight, I'll be able to get it out tomorrow, which is Thursday. And it's 9.44 p.m. And I literally just figured out that today is Thursday and not Wednesday, which means that this episode is coming out on Friday. So if that tells you anything about the kind of week that I'm having, I genuinely spent the whole day thinking it was Wednesday until nearly 10 p.m. But fortunately, the thing that I did do right today is I made my flight. And I am here in Dallas, Texas right now. This is one of the few flights that I've taken in the year 2020. And Andy Hill from the Marriage,

Kids and Money podcast is here with me. Hey, say hi, Andy. Hi, everybody, and hi, Paula. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you for being here. So Andy and I are co-emceeing a conference for people who create content online about personal finance, bloggers, podcasters, YouTubers. This conference is called FinCon. We've talked about it here on the podcast. I've gone to it. Technically, I guess this year makes 10 out of 10 years. This year, of course, the conference is virtual, but Andy and I, as co-hosts, co-mc's, we are here as part of a very skeleton crew of just FinCon staff and the video crew, and we're here to co-host the conference. Yeah, and I really like that word, co-MC. It's like, I feel like that's a, that's a pretty cool word. I'm going to have to

use that more often. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's really exciting to be here because, Not only are we going to get to partner together and have some fun and lead this conference that we both have gotten a lot out of personally, but we're also being able to introduce some really exciting content creators that are doing some really exciting things in the space. So it's an honor to be here. And I'm just happy to be out of the house after being cooped up for nine months as well. It's kind of a nice treat. Andy got here in the first words out of his mouth. he was like, it's so good to see people, like physical people. Yes.

Zoom people. Right. Real people. Real people. What is this? Exactly. And so what I wanted to say is that in lieu of a normal PSA Thursday episode, which I've just discovered is actually going to come out on Friday because I can't keep track of

days of the week anymore. What I originally came on here to say was that in lieu of that episode, you know, one of the questions that I often get is, hey, Paul, Can you refer me to anybody who can talk about personal finance for Canadians or personal finance for parents or personal finance for people with high student loan debt? Or, you know, like there are all of these different types of role models that people are searching for. As much as I or you, Andy, as much as we try to help, of course, we can't be everything to everybody. We don't have the life experience that some other people have. Absolutely.

And so when we're here talking about FinConX right now, and Andy, as you and I talk about emceeing this event, I don't want to make this too inside baseball, but insofar as how this might be beneficial to those of you who are listening, if you are looking for a resource, a role model, somebody to learn from, there's a huge selection. They're just way, way, way more. Personal finance and financial independence,

bloggers, podcasters, YouTubers, then you might realize. And there are people covering every kind of topic. Yeah, if you think we're in a niche of personal finance, you can niche within the niche, too. Obviously, if you're looking for folks that are family finance focused or high student loan debt or people who are doctors that are looking to learn how to get rid of their medical, or their student loan debt, there are people who are specifically only talking about that. And that's great because people's situations can fit perfectly for the people out there that are creating that content, which is fun. Exactly. So this is our little plug for if anybody wants to register for FinConX. It's completely free. And by the way, we are not getting paid to say this. They don't actually even know that we're

saying this. If they hear this podcast episode, which I don't think they will because they're super busy. But if they hear it, they'll be as, you know, they'll be shocked. We're not getting anything from recommending this. But like I said, I've been to 10 out of 10. This year makes 10 out of 10. So I've been a part of this community for a very long time. And truly a lot of what I've learned about personal finance has come from this community. I did get a gift earlier.

That was from you, though, when you got off the American Airlines flight, you gave me your extra granola bar box. I did. That was a nice gift. Yes. There's also some cheese and crackers in there, too. Okay, great. I'm going to be hitting that up in about 15 minutes.

Right? Yeah. Exactly. Airline lounge, credit card miles. Hey. Big winner. And speaking of community, the other thing that I wanted to touch on, since we're having this conversation about community is I had a conversation the other day that I wanted to share.

And I hope that this is enlightening. I hope it's educational. But I was talking to a journalist who I suspect has not bothered listening to a single episode of this podcast. And yet she assumes that she knows what I'm all about. And so in that conversation, on three separate occasions, she referred to me as a guru. And I was like, well, first of all, ew, like, this is an anti-gourou or a guru-free platform. Don't hand over your critical thinking skills. Don't blindly follow someone. Don't let somebody else be in the driver's seat of your life and don't follow in my footsteps, follow in your own. Your goals are yours. Your priorities are

yours. Your journey is yours. So don't follow my path. Follow your own path. And don't look to me or to any person, including you, Andy, or including any person with a podcast or a blog or a book, anyone in the financial media. Would you've preferred if she said guide instead of guru? Like you're helping people along their journey, or is that? I think of myself as an educator and a facilitator. This is not the Paula Pant Show. This is Afford Anything. And Afford Anything is a community that gathers around a shared philosophy.

Afford Anything is a philosophy that you can afford anything, not everything, which means that we're faced with tradeoffs. We're faced with the necessity of making hard choices. And as such, our lifetime practice is to be clear about. our values and clear about our priorities so that we can be better at the skill of making choices and the skill of making decisions. And so we're a community gathered around that philosophy. And frankly, if you want to see examples of amazing people, brilliant people, doing inspiring, motivating, uplifting things, don't look at me. Look at the people inside of

this community, the afford anything community. Every day I hear from people, I get Instagram DMs or I get emails. Like I hear from people every single day who are in the Afford Anything community who blow me out of the water with what they do. They have overcome obstacles that I cannot even imagine. They have achieved things that are far beyond anything I've ever achieved. I mean, if you want to be inspired, don't look at me. Look at your community.

Look to your left. Look to your right. Look to your neighbors. Look to your peers. That's why this is not the Paula Pant Show. That's why this is the afford anything community. And the afford anything community is much, much, much bigger than just me. Yeah.

Is that something you thought about when you created the show originally? Did you say, hey, a lot of people have that show name Paula Pallaband show or afforded anything. If they do, then you need to talk to about some copyright. But no, there's the whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, was that part of your thinking when you originally created the show? Well, hmm.

Jeez, that's a good question. I mean, I guess when the podcast originally started, it was I had a co-host, Jay Money. And so it wasn't about either one of us because it was a project that the two of us were doing together. So it was the Money show. And so when Jay Money left and I rebranded the show,

it felt natural to call it afford anything because afford anything fundamentally is rooted in philosophy. Like that concept is a concept of opportunity cost. And it seemed natural to me to put the philosophy and the philosophy and the ideas ahead of the person. Because the reason I hate being called a guru is, who am I? Like, I'm nobody.

I am a conduit to a community that's comprised of really impressive people. And the way that the people in the community are there for one another, like cheering each other on, teaching each other, that's a joy to watch. And so that community is the heartbeat. And I think that in order to really be community first, you have to be philosophy first, right? Because a community, I think, will naturally gather around shared philosophy, shared values. You know, if you have that common thread of this is what we believe, like, this is the idea that we're gathering around, that's how you grow that community. So it seemed to me natural to put philosophy first so that the community could grow around it.

Sure. So maybe it's the word guru that's bothering you because there's probably lots of people in your life, Paula, that you've seen as leaders or people that you're inspired by. And you wouldn't just push them aside and say, well, you're inspired by them. So would the word leader feel more comfortable? Well, because there's got to be a word for you. So the thing is, I don't think that it's a matter of semantics. I think what bothers me is the concept. Like, essentially, the journalist was, within the course of the conversation that she and I had, she essentially indicated that if a person has credentials, if they have a PhD, or if they're a CFP or a CFA, or a CPA, you know, if they have credentials or they're licensed or they have a doctorate. And so in her, what I feel is a narrow and limited worldview, everyone fits into one of two boxes.

either a credentialed expert or a purveyor of personal narrative. And why I object to that framework is because there are many other ways of communicating. So a third way is to be somebody like Morgan Housel or Shane Parrish or Tim Urban. Those are people who, they don't have diplomas or licenses ahead of their name. And, I mean, I could name, like, sure, there's Mark Manson and Charles Duhigg, but Mark Manson and Charles Duhigg both have, everybody I'm naming, almost everybody I'm naming, is a former guest on this podcast. Like, Mark Manson and Charles Duhigg both have bestselling books, books that have reached

the New York Times bestseller list. So that's their credential. Right. Which I would argue is kind of like, it's justification after the fact. But, okay, just for the sake of argument, let's pull them, let's take them off the table. And let's look at, for example, Morgan Housel. He was a recent guest on this show. and he, to the best of my knowledge, his book is not a bestseller.

He doesn't have a New York Times bestseller. He doesn't have a Wall Street Journal bestseller. What he has are articles that he's published on the internet and a book that is not a bestseller. And he doesn't, to the best of my knowledge, have licenses or credentials in any of those official capacities. But he is, in my opinion, brilliant. And the immense value of his contributions to the world of online

finance writing is, as I see it, impossible to overstate. He observes, he shares his observations, and he's damn good at doing it. So he's not a credentialed expert. He's not a purveyor of personal narrative. He's not a guru with a story who claims to hold the answers and have the secrets. He is a thinker and a writer, and he's really good at doing it. He also says it in a way that people can easily understand. So I've noticed that sometimes in our community that you can speak to just to speak and speak over people to. And I feel like he is a way about explaining complex topics in a comfortable way. And I think that's also a talent. Maybe you don't need the credentials or the way that you've described it as the personal finance journalist or the journalist captured

it. But if you've got that experience and you're able to communicate it well, maybe that makes you even more effective. Right, exactly. So it's not as narrow as saying either you're an expert or you're a purveyor of personal narrative. There are other iterations. You could be somebody like a Morgan Housel who is a brilliantly skilled communicator. Or you could be, and that's yet another iteration. Or you could be amazing at facilitating a community. I think Choose FI is a great example. FinCon, where we are right now. You and I are in doubt. Alice together right now is another great example. These are amazing facilitators of community, and that is another way of existing in this world. And so you don't need to go into the

oversaturated how I did it genre, which frankly I find kind of insufferable. You don't have to do that. There are a variety of paths, and it is overly simplistic and intellectually lazy to reduce everything down to either expert or guru. It's too narrow of a way of thinking. And so it's not the semantics that I object to. It's the worldview behind it. That makes sense. So where this all goes back to, truly, is I view myself as, hopefully, as following in the

footsteps of a Morgan Howsel or a Shane Parrish in that I hope that I have insightful, original thought, and I communicate it well. and also I hope that I facilitate community. A hybrid of those two models, a hybrid of what I will call the Morgan Housel plus FinCon model. That's the iteration that I hope I'm bringing to the table, and that fundamentally is an iteration that says, don't follow me, follow one another, look to one another.

A beautiful part of that, too, is the consistency of that message over a long period of time. So Morgan Houss has been writing for a long time, as you said, but he's consistently done that well over a long period of time. So people want to hear more from them. People want to be a part of that community. And so keeping that consistency, I think, is a big key to it as well. Right.

What about you, Andy? How do you see yourself? Wow. I know. How do I see myself? That's a big question. I find myself in this sort of role of somebody who is personally seeking information themselves and then sharing that journey along the way.

So I'm on a personal path of improvement, and so I share my personal path for improvement on my platform, but I'm also interviewing other folks that I'm interested in learning from, and then I take that information and disseminate it with the audience. So I feel like I'm on the path with them of improvement, which is fun for me because I always want to improve, whether it's with my marriage kids or my money, I want to get better.

And so with that, I'm learning from folks. And then I'm also sharing things that I've done as well. So it's almost like a seeker or, you know, along that back. So you are a purveyor of personal narrative, but from a peer perspective rather than... Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And also, you know, to be able, like you're talking about with community, bringing it back to the people who have been impacted by any of the messages that are out there and then featuring those stories, just like you're talking about with your community,

learning from those folks, hearing from them, hearing their wins, that kind of fuels my fire too. You know, in the course that I teach twice a year, so much of the value of it comes from, like what you just said, people inside of the community, there are people in the community who the student has become the master. I mean, there are people in that community who are far, there are a few people who are far more advanced than I am.

We did an office hours call last week, and there was a woman there. who she was asking me some very advanced questions. And I told her, I was like, look, it's clear you know more about, she was asking about a real estate syndication, which is an advanced topic that is outside of my wheelhouse. I was like, look, it's clear, you know more about this than I do. And I am looking to you for leadership.

And so first, as a teacher, it is beautiful to watch. It's beautiful to watch people get to a point where now you're looking to this. them. Sure. Absolutely. How cool is that? How cool is it to know that you've played any role in their journey and in their success, no matter how small. And their success is completely credited to them and them alone. And having that volley back and forth where you're both learning from each other, which is... Yeah, exactly, exactly. And yeah, exactly. And that is such a big piece of the value of the course. Even in the context of teaching a course, I am not the guru. I am a conduit, but so much of the value comes from the community inside of it. You're the facilitator

of the conversation, and then the people who are around it are either learning and participating all at the same time, and you're doing the same thing. Exactly. So I guess to make a short story long, all of this is to say that being here at the 10th FinCon is a time for me to really reflect on the value of community. And now more than ever, and I think to relate this to 2020, since this is a PSA Thursday episode, 2020 is a time when we've all felt a little isolated. And so now more than ever, I think for me, this is just reinforced how important community is and how critical it is to facilitate community by staying humble and leading from behind. Servant leadership, absolutely. Exactly.

Makes a lot of sense. And whether you're communities in person or digital. We've obviously learned to be very flexible this year with what the term community means. But I think it's very important to keep some community, whether if you're not able to see people in person, is to keep it going digitally because having that back and forth with humans that are going through a lot of the same things that you're going through is so important right now, especially for, I guess, just everybody's mental health. Exactly. Exactly. So that's PSA Thursday, which, as it turns out, will come out on Friday because I can't keep track of days of the week anymore.

Thank you, Andy, for joining me on this. And tomorrow morning, oh, in less than 12 hours, you and I are going to be live streamed. Absolutely. I'm excited. In front of, what, 3,000? 3,000 people. Yeah. Worldwide, evidently.

Oh, yes. So for those of you who are listening to this on Friday, feel free to tune in and watch us be live streamed. Thank you all for tuning in. Thank you for being part of this community. And if you want to chat with other people in the Afford Anything community, guess where you can find them? Affordanithinging.com slash community. And if you want to learn more about the course, you can find out more by going to afford anything.com slash VIP list. We open for enrollment on November 30.

Enrollment is open for one week only. We close our doors after a week. And after that, our doors are shut until next spring, spring 2021. So if you want to be part of this course, again, afford anything.com slash VIP list. We will be opening our doors one week only beginning November 30. That's the enrollment window. So hope you join us. Thank you for being part of this journey.

Thank you for being part of this community. And I'll catch you in the next episode.