Afford Anything - The Last Show With Jay

Episode Date: May 23, 2016

#26: Sometimes you need to let go of the good for the great. Jay Money has started a lot of projects, only to let them go because they didn't match his goals. The show must go on - and it will with Paula at the wheel. Jay will be back from time to time (and in every episode, as you will notice in future episodes). For more information, visit the show notes at https://affordanything.com/episode-26-last-episode-with-jay/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You gotta stop calling me every week. But then I wouldn't get such good bloopers. That's true. I know you never make a mistake ever. Oh, I make tons. I just pay a guy to edit them out. Welcome to The Money Show, a podcast about mastering your money and time so you can live your optimal life. This show features interviews with entrepreneurs, financial experts, and regular people who share amazing insight into investing, business, money management, and productivity.

There are many roads to financial freedom. this show explores them on. Grab a beer, kickback, and enjoy the money show. Hey, Jay, this is the intro to a very special episode. Yes, the last time that we're going to be co-hosting it. I'm moving on, Paula. Can you believe it? It's the end of an era, but the beginning of a new era. That's right.

No one has to be scared. I'm going to fade away in the background. And Miss Paula P. is going to carry on the show. And it's going to be awesome. and probably better without a co-host trying to get all crazy on her. No, no. I'm going to miss you, Jay. In fact, I'm going to keep you around in the blooper reel.

You are going to live in eternity, in perpetuity, in this show's blooper reel. That is awesome, I think. Do I get credit on every show going forward no matter how popular you get? Totally. I'll be like, this is Jay Money, my blooper buddy. Okay. So in today's episode, we're just going to, you know, it's going to be the two of us. And we're going to talk about how to make the decision to quit, particularly if you've got

something that's good because, I mean, Jay, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but thank you and I have a pretty good show. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what makes it hard, too, is why? I know people are going to say, like, why would you stop if you just started and it's going well and everything seems to click? And it has.

It has been pretty good. And I've been fairly happy. And we've had a lot of fun. I've learned a lot. But I think there's a lot of kind of variables that go into why people stop or transition out. And in this show, we kind of wanted to go over a lot of these things, the goods, the baza. We have a lot of fun.

And it gives a longer explanation than me just saying, oh, I'm going to go do something different. Peace out. And then that's it, especially since so many people have been listening, my readers, Paula's readers. I think everyone part of the show, people that put it together. So this is hard and probably the most real and raw I've been on a show, probably Paula, yeah? Yeah, yeah. What I like about this show, obviously we're recording this introduction

after we've recorded the show. But what I like about the show that you all are about to listen to is that on one hand, it's deeply real and raw and personal. And in addition to that, it contains a lot of lessons that you, the listeners, that you all can apply to your own life. So if you've ever wondered, should I quit this job or this project or this, I, you know, what, you know, what, what are good reasons to quit and what are not and how do you know and when am I giving up versus when am I making a wise decision to move on? Like how do you assess that? We we cover all of that in this show, but in a way that's, you know, it's not just theoretical in a way that has a very very practical application because this is. Yeah. This is my last time I'm recording with you.

It's very real, Paula. I don't know if you know that yet. You're by yourself after this. What? No, but I'll probably hop on here and there and have fun and help Paula and everything. It'll be a good show going forward for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I guess let's jump into it, Jay.

Oh, I'm going to miss you, Paula pantalones. I know. Yeah. It is true, Paula. I must admit, I have to go on to other ways. However that saying goes. Greener, no, greener pastures. That makes it sound like you die.

Yes, I'm not going anywhere. You'll still be able to find me on the internet. For the listeners, like, I have been thinking about this for a little while. And Paul and I've talked back and forth every now and then like, what would happen if one of us wanted to go a different way? And we've been cool and you've always said, hey, you just tell me how it's going. You know, we're cool. We'll figure it out. Like, we're friends first.

Yeah. Right? And that's awesome. And as scared as I was, like, I was such a wuss that I had to email you to tell you that I want to. to with the whole getting on the phone right after, you know. Like, that's how, like, scared I was and just, it was just so hard. And within, like, I don't know, it seemed like a week, but it was really like an hour of you responding. You said, hey, I get it.

This is cool. We'll talk about it. Don't worry. I love you. You know, so I got to tell you, thank you for making this whole thing, you know. Thanks for partnering up with me to begin with for the show. But thanks for making my transition out of here. A lot easier for me, I guess I should say.

Yeah. Of course. of course. And yeah, I mean, like you said, you know, we've, we talked about it before we even launched the show, you know, and we were like, hey, if someone's not feeling it, then you shouldn't stick around with a show that you're not feeling. I mean, a show requires, or any entrepreneurial venture requires such a huge input of creative energy that if it's not what you want to be doing, and the energy's not there, it's going to ultimately show in the work. So, you know, if something isn't right, then you've, you know, sometimes you have to let go of things that are good in order to

get the thing that is great. Oh, that is a quote. Making a note to tweet this out later. I'll ask why Jay Money retired. I mean, I'm not even calling it quitting. I'm going to just say I retired from the show. Like, I helped grow it, and I got some momentum for the Paula show. And then I release and now Paula runs the, well, I guess, well, I guess, well,

We didn't even talk about this, but I guess it would make sense to announce that you're going to continue the show with you and your ideas and a bulk of it is going to stay pretty close. Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit about that actually? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess I've had less than 24 hours at this point to really think about it. It could change. And the reason I ask, too, is because you're obviously awesome at real estate. We've covered real estate on and off and I'm obviously not. you know, so I didn't know if maybe are the listeners going to get some good real estate stuff still? Like you're not going to just like turn into a real estate show. No, no, no. Actually, you know, I'm glad you brought that up because this is one of those things where, you know how sometimes people give you advice about like unsolicited advice about what they think

that you should do? And it might be good advice, but you still feel like it's just not the right direction. I get a lot of advice. I hear from a lot of people who encourage me to just go full blown into being a real estate personality, you know, because the real estate articles that I post on Afford-Anithingcom are my most viewed and most shared articles. The questions that I get from my audience overwhelmingly tend to be about real estate. And so a lot of people over the years, not just with this podcast, but in general, have been like, why are you messing around talking about entrepreneurship and all of these other money

things? Why don't you just talk about real estate? But you know what? At the end of the day, the message that I want to get across is that real estate, for me at least, real estate is the how. But financial independence and freedom and designing a life that's the kind of life that you want to live, that's the why. And I don't ever want to lose sight of that why. And I want to keep that incorporated into the message. And I, you know, and that's why I talk not just about real estate, but about money in general.

And entrepreneurship, because entrepreneurship has also been a big part of what I've done. with starting a blog and starting a podcast and quitting my nine to five in order to become a freelance writer. You know, all of these things like I've started many, many, many businesses and I don't want to leave that piece of the story out. Yeah. Well, and it's funny, like quitting, right? I mean, actually the topic of this show is like there's good quitting, there's bad quitting,

you know? Even the word quitting has like that stigma, right? Like usually it's bad. You should never quit, especially in the entrepreneurship world, right? Like quitting is like bad, but there's a whole other side of. why is that person quitting? Are they chickening out, right? Are they, you know, have they failed?

Is it not reaching their goals anymore? Is it a different priority? There's so many reasons why someone quits or in my case, retires. And that's why actually, when Paul and I were talking, I'm like, well, how do we transition half of the show, like the co-host out of here? And I say, well, let's talk about quitting and what that means and why, you know, and I'll explain more why, you know, I think it's time for me to leave the show. So, you know, but that's an important, like, part of everything. You start stuff, right? But people don't like to talk about quitting.

Right. Right. Right. So tell me, why don't you tell me, Jay, like, and not just about the show, but in general, because you've quit many things in your life. Like, you know, you used to have a full-time kind of nine-to-five job and you quit that. And we've heard about that in past episodes. Yeah.

But you were also, and I think a lot of people don't know this, you used to be a real estate agent. and you used to work for Delta Airlines. And you've done some crazy stuff. And how did you know when it was time to move on? What are the kind of the universal pointers when you come to that realization? Yeah, that's a good question. And it changes over time. Like I think back in the day, like I've had over 30.

I have an article actually. I think it's maybe 40 plus jobs now and I'm 36. So I've had a lot of jobs, whether that's good or bad. Most people would probably see that's bad. I would go with the flow a lot. I would chase the wrong thing. So a lot of times I would just be chasing money, regardless if I thought I was good at it

or if it made me happy, I would just chase the money, right? And nothing saying bad about getting a job just for money. Like tons of people do it. I did it most of my life, you know. But I think at some point, like the happiness and the lifestyle, you know, I talk about lifestyle a lot because at the end of the day, all the money in the world or jobs, like nothing matters if you're like miserable.

And it matters to a degree. And more money and success obviously makes you happier to a degree. But so for me, so over the years is kind of changed. And even and now with the show, you know, like I told you, for whatever reason, like on paper, everything makes sense. And actually, I'll go back to the ex-girlfriend reference. One of my ex-girlfriends I was with for four or five years, like everyone thought we were perfect together. Right. Like we worked well together or we worked well. We like hung out. You know, like, I'm literally quitting to job stuff. That's not why we broke up. No, but when I broke up with it, like, everything was perfect and great and successful, but there was, like, something missing. Like, I just wasn't happy or, like, I called it the X factor with her. I don't know why it was. And when we broke up and I broke up with her, everyone was so mad at me. Like, my friends are like, you're an idiot.

Like, my mom got, I've never seen my mom get so mad at me because she thought she was the one and that I was, like, throwing it down the toilet. I'm never going to have kids and blah, blah, blah. And it was really hard because, it seemed like it was great to everyone, right? And with the show, too, not that it's like the best show in the world, but like we've had success, right? We've hit 100,000 downloads. We're close. 150,000. Yeah, we'll probably be at 200, maybe when this even, you know, goes live. I don't know. Yeah. So it's not like it's gone horrible, you know, and we get emails like every day. Like today,

I sent you an email, right, from someone that was like, oh, this is a great show. It's a breath of fresh air. Like, you guys sound like porn stars, like with your name. That's what happens when your last name is pant. And so, you know, so like it's all been great. But for some reason, like I get so anxious. Like I told you, we would record. Like, we record on Wednesdays for those that don't know. You know, and then I'm like, I have fun.

When you and I are talking, like right now, right this minute, like I'm having a blast talking about money and life and entrepreneurship, right? So when I'm doing it, I'm good. When we're off, I'm great. And then like a few days before we start recording again, I just get like these knots in my stomach and I think it's just like it just I don't consider myself a podcast like it's not like my world I guess and so and I don't listen to podcasts but I appreciate it and I love like I mean I wanted to say it's in the beginning but like I love everyone listening to this right now like you guys

have made it so fun for me and and good for me and like kind of like pushed me to keep going and to keep doing the show you know but I think at the end of the day it doesn't excite me where I'm like oh, I just want to get on and interview people and talk to Paul about money and all the stuff, which I enjoy in theory, but not when like it's a thing. Right. You know. Not when it's a weekly obligation. Yeah.

And maybe there's something to that, right? And of course, a lot of people don't know. Like, there's like, what do we talk about on the show? Are the people going to like it? Right. Like, who do we interview? What if it's a crappy interview? What do we do?

Yeah. Right? Like, you and I are so in the thick of it that like we're trying to make sure that we're asking good questions and getting good answers and, you know, making it fun. but it's like work, which is fine. But like I think thinking about my lifestyle and what do I truly want, one of them on that list is I don't want to work nights and weekends anymore. I want to spend it with my family and take the break and recharge from work.

So when I start back on Monday, I'm like super energized. So there's a timing thing too, right? The podcast takes some time to, you know, to do everything that we do. It takes hours, right? Right, yeah. So that's a part of it. But I think in going back to your original question, why I switch around a lot and why I'm always quitting and starting. It's like I'm trying to find out the perfect, like the balance

of like having fun doing something you care about, but not worrying about it or being super anxious in between, you know. And these are really like kind of stupid. It's not stupid, but these are problems that like if this is your only problem, it's a good problem. Like first world problems, I guess, right? Like I'm not complaining at all. Like I get it. Like hustling is work. It's working. Right. But I think if you can test and test and start and quit and start quit and go down that path eventually like you whittle it out to like the perfect efficient amount of happiness and money and projects and I think that's just what I've been doing over the years you know and just the fact that like I've had my blog

for eight and a half year like it's amazing right and like right now it's working you know maybe down the road it won't be working you know but for right now it is and with rockstar finance and so yeah I think it's just me trying to quit stuff or retire stuff earlier than let it drag on. I have a bad habit of letting things go on when I know I'm not happy anymore or it's not working. Yeah. And I'm trying to be better at doing it earlier than dragging it on. Right. Because any any amount of time that you spend doing the wrong thing, wrong isn't really the right word. Yeah. But, you know, any amount of time that you spend pursuing a path that you spend pursuing a path that you don't want to be on is time taken away from the path that is right. Yes. Yes. You know,

and I can certainly relate to that, like the all of the time that I spent like twiddling my thumbs, knowing what I wanted to do, but being afraid to actually go do it because going to do that other thing would mean quitting the thing that I'm currently doing and the thing that I'm currently doing is going well. Yeah. And you do, you have to choose like, like, do I love being on this show and talking to you and building an audience and meeting new people and all your fans and readers that didn't know me before. Like, I love all that stuff. You know, but you have to compare it like, all right, well, I have like three major projects going. Right.

And if I want to spend less time, right, there's only certain options and you kind of have to choose your favorites. Right. You know, but going back to your thing, like actually, like, I just pulled up my Twitter account because I saw this quote, but it said it's always better to be at the bottom of a ladder you want to climb than halfway up when you don't. Yeah. And it's crazy. I love that. Isn't that so true?

Yeah, totally. Oh, my gosh. By the way, Jay, I'm looking at your job history right now. Yeah. Okay. I'm really quickly just going to run through a few of the highlights, and I'm only going to start at the jobs that you had after you graduated from college, right? Because, like, you know, we all have, like, loads of weird jobs before we graduate

from college. Right. After college, boat rental worker, car washer, Applebee's dishwasher, old Navy associate, television production assistant, travel agent, airline ticket agent, customer service rep, customer service assistant manager, real estate agent, customer service rep at a different company, followed by manager at that same company, then a product manager, then a, oh my, it keeps going on, graphic designer, blogger, blog coach, advisor to financial startups. Whoa, you make $100 an hour doing that?

Heck yeah. Yeah. Well, notice, like, there's pockets, right? Like, some of those, like, when I was doing, like, real estate and when I was doing airline worker, I was like the time of life, I'm like, well, what, in a perfect world, like, what could I do that I enjoy? And, like, traveling I enjoy. So I'm like, well, hell, if I work for the airlines, I could travel anywhere I want for

free, pretty much. Yeah. So I incorporated lifestyle into the jobs. And even the last group, right, like blogging, blog coaching. I did money coaching. I don't know if I haven't updated it in a while. the financial startup stuff, right? Those are all things that are in my general wheelhouse of what excites me.

So then you, of course, find ways to get paid so that you can get paid to do the stuff, you know, that you love. Right. But yeah, but, you know, but sometimes it doesn't work out. Like the travel agent example or working for an airline example that I used to when there was a while when I was in college, like I've always loved being outdoors. I love outdoor recreation. So there was one summer.

It was one of the summers in college when I was like, I should be a hiking guide. And then I would just get paid to go hiking. That would be amazing. Yeah. And so I got a job for a summer camp as a hiking guide leading like, you know, middle school kids into the woods for like for day hikes. And it sucked. It was so bad.

Oh my goodness. because there's such a difference between like going hiking for yourself versus bringing a whole bunch of middle school kids into the middle of the woods when they don't want to be there. Yes. And you have, it's back to the same problem of doing it for the job and managing and everything and not being able to enjoy the actual like beauty of everything. Exactly. I mean, even with the show, if you're like, Jay, every week, like I just want to interview you and we're just going to talk about stuff and it's low key. like I'd be like oh that actually doesn't sound bad I'll do that right like if you called me up on the phone and that's what we did I would do that every week with you right but then when it becomes like a thing and okay now we got email list and now we have this I'm like oh you know it's like mixing business

with pleasure right which sometimes you know so yeah no I hear you and in the airline stuff too by the way so there's that what you said another thing is if you can get a job that has the benefits So with the airline, I was a ticket agent, so I helped check people in before they got on the flight, which like no one wants to do that. I mean, that's like the worst kind of customer service there is because people miss their flights. They yell at you. They scream. They get stuck for weather. Everyone should actually do it.

You learn a ton. It's like the best experience for like a resume type thing. But the job itself gives you the benefits. So when your shift ends, it's like, hey, I want to fly to Puerto Rico for the night, right? You hop on the next flight out, you know, and it's always like standby. And then you go for like 10 bucks or something cheap, you know. The problem I ran into was that because I kept traveling, I never had any money. Because I would just fly everywhere.

Like I flew to like London for the weekend. And I was like, great. I'm in London. I have no money. I could barely afford to eat, you know? Yeah. So it's like that tradeoff. Like, well, what good is it all the way?

You know. You know, but. But let's go back to the like knowing when to quit. Because I think oftentimes when we talk about entrepreneurship, we hear about the success stories. And we hear that narrative of, I quit my day job, I started this thing, and now I make a bajillion dollars. But we don't hear those stories of, well, I quit my day job. I started this thing.

I realized it wasn't right. So I pivoted. And pivot is just like really a nice term for saying quit what I was doing and tried something else. Yeah. You know, so like I tried this thing and I didn't work out. So I pivoted and then I pivoted and then I pivoted and then I pivoted and then I pivoted and then I made it. Sounded sexy, I guess. You know, and I describe it like on social media. I often write about just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. And that is a big piece of what entrepreneurship is and what life is in general. Even if you don't want to quit your job and be an

entrepreneur. I mean, so much of life is throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks in terms of managing your career or your relationships or choosing where you want to live. Yeah, right. Well, and the biggest challenge is knowing if it's like why you're you're pivoting or quitting or retiring or whatever it is, right? Because there's, so they're like going back, like there's good ways to quit and bad reasons, right? And we'll just do some, I'll just go down some of the bad ones, right? Like, if you're lazy or you just like don't want to do the hard work because it's hard work, right? Like, you're going to have to do hard work to make money or to be successful.

It doesn't matter what you do, like, it's hard work, right? Or else everyone would be doing it, right? And you can get lucky and have, like, certain things happen. It all plays a part. But at the end of the day, to be successful, you have to work. Right. So, like, in going back to this, so me, I'm not quitting the show because I don't want to work, you know, it's just not a good fit, right?

And those are two different things, right? Here's a big one, when you start something, but you don't. don't let enough time go by where you can decide like, all right, I gave it a hearty shot. And for whatever reason, it's not working. So I'm going to go ahead and stop, right? And a perfect example. Actually, going back to my ex again, I don't know why she pops up. I haven't thought about her like five years. You should send her a link to this episode. I should. Yeah, if she would talk to me. I would. Yes. But I wanted to move to New York City. I was so nice. I didn't know anything. Like, I graduated college.

I had $2,000 in cash in like two suitcases. I moved up there, didn't have a place to stay. Like within the first like two days, I remember calling my girlfriend and be like, I can't do this. I'm miserable. It's raining. I don't know where I'm staying. Like everyone's mean. I was just so miserable that I was like, I'm getting on the train and I'm coming back.

Like I was just giving up on day two. Right. And I remember as much as my ex-girlfriend wanted me to come home because we could be closer. She's like, no, like you're an idiot. Like you have to give this a full shot. You need to stay there for one. year. That's your goal. I don't care if you're doing great. I don't care. But in a year, if you want to come home, you can then come home. And I'm like, well, like, it was just so shocking,

right? But it was good. And after the first week or two was really bad. It was hard. After that, I got used to it. And then I started making friends and I was working. And after the year, I actually enjoyed it. And I stayed for about another year. And eventually I came home. But like, at that point, I'm like, all right, now, like, I have enough information to decide if I should stay or go. And it's not just based on, like, the rain pouring on me being wet and, like, feeling crappy. Right, right, right. That's actually a really good point. And that was really good advice that she gave you because if I remember correctly, it's hard to remember when I started my blog because that was, it feels like forever ago. Yeah. So I hope I'm not like

remembering this with Rosie hindsight. But if I remember correctly, I think that, when I started my blog, I committed to doing it for, I think, one or two years. I was like, I'm going to do this. Wow, that's really good. Yeah, yeah, because I remember at that time, there was so much conflicting advice out there about blogging. And there were stories of bloggers like J.D. Roth, who we interviewed on an earlier episode.

There were stories about bloggers who sold their blog for millions. And then there were conflicting narratives from people who were saying, oh, you can never make money as a blogger. Bloggers don't make any money, you know. And I just didn't know what to believe. But I wanted it to work. And I liked the idea that it would be possible to be a full-time blogger. And so I knew that I would have to just commit.

And I would just have to throw everything into it and give it a go for X amount of time. Yeah. I think that, yeah, that's good. And it doesn't even matter of like a year or six months just so that you have something in your head. like here's at this point we'll decide if I'm happy or not to go forward you know I mean even on the show we did it right like after the first month we'll see how it's going do we want to continue not like let's see how we are and we decide to continue now we're a month like three or four or whatever right you know one of us is going to continue on with the other but like that was another check-in right

right another bad one going back to time bad reasons for quitting yeah yeah yeah when I was trying to tell like everyone why like I'm stopping and and Paula I just made this list in an email of my brain was just on fire right right I didn't want to say hey guys I'm done and like not give an explanation and then leave yeah what the hell happened to him right like that's the worst when blogs stop or something stops and you never find out what happened right you know I hate that right so bad reasons for quitting number one is just being lazy and not wanting to commit to it long enough to see it through right the second one is making sure you have enough time to actually decide if like you're on the right path or not, right? Not just like a gut reaction early on.

Right. The first time you hit an obstacle. Yeah. The first day it rains in New York. And you're like, what is this? There is moisture and it's falling from the sky? I'm not familiar with this. I was soaking wet when I made that call. But yes. And also with the obstacles too, right? Like with blogging, with podcasts. And like my mic was jacked up the first force, you know, or five shows. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's an obstacle. Right? Like there's all these, like you will hit obstacles no matter what you're doing to succeed and trying to go there. But the trick is deciding if these obstacles, like, again, you're on the right path so you can deal with these obstacles versus like you're going down the wrong path. And then you also have to deal with these obstacles. So how do you know the difference? When you hit an obstacle, how do you know if it's the universe telling you you should be doing something else versus it's just something you're going to have to power through? Yeah. Well, I don't know for other people. I know for me, like, it's. It's a matter of having enough time that goes by and seeing if I'm on the right path.

Like if obstacles hit me left and right for like, let's say like every week an obstacle comes up. Yeah. And I'm like, what the hell? And I keep seeming to overcome them. But for whatever reason, it just keeps hitting me for like months or years. Then personally, I, you know, my aunt years ago told me like when you're on the right path, you'll know.

And you'll hit obstacles. But you'll generally, when things align right, it'll be generally trending upwards. Right. And sometimes it doesn't. It doesn't. maybe it's a timing, maybe it's just like whatever. But if I get hit over and over and over again and then I start like not wanting to do the work anymore, then for me I know it's not.

And like, again, I'm not afraid of doing work. I'm just afraid of doing work when I'm like not like my heart isn't in it. Right? Going back to our first show, the heart and hustle. Right? Like we were going to name that show this actually. Yeah. So we were thinking about naming the show heart and hustle.

Like thinking about it to the point where when we lined up our first few interview guests. We told them that that was what the show was called. And then, and then later, we were like, just kidding. But that hard part is important, right? Like, it's harder to overcome obstacles, too, when you actually stop caring about, like, the goal, right? Whatever the reason is, whatever it is, you have to care if you want to save money, if you want to retire early, if you want to be successful in job. Like, you have to care. You cannot not care and succeed or at least like do it easily. Right. You know, so that's my thing. And again, I'm very emotional like, you know, like I pay attention to my feelings a lot more than I

think maybe some people do. But to me, they lead me down the right path for the most. Sometimes they don't, right? Like when I bought a house like on a whim, you know, with no money down. That was a stupid way that my emotions led me. But the point of me saying all that is that my decision to leave this show is an emotional. I mean, it is emotion, but it's based on years of learning how I work. How to read those emotions and how to contextualize those. So the way that I would answer that same question, you know, when you are confronted with obstacles, how do you know if it's a sign that you should quit or not? The way that I've approached it is by visualizing the end goal and asking myself if that is the end goal that I want to achieve.

So, for example, if I visualize being the host of a super huge podcast that has reached the number one spot in iTunes business, yeah, I like that image. I like that vision. Or if I visualize having that afford anything reaches 200,000 email subscribers. I love that vision. And I'm willing to charge through any obstacle necessary in order to make. that happen. But going back to, I mentioned I used to be a freelance writer. And in fact, I kind of scaled that. I was starting to get so many freelance writing jobs that I couldn't keep up with it myself. So I started a content marketing company, basically. I started like a little firm,

like a boutique firm that creates articles and manages social media, you know, and does all of that internet blog, social media content marketing stuff. specifically for finance and real estate companies. It was good money. And technically the company does still exist. We have a couple of clients that we still work with. But it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. Like if I tried to visualize a future in which that company had blown up and was really, really big big. I was, me. That's a big sign. Yeah, exactly. Well, what did I tell you before we even, I don't think we recorded this when we talked earlier today. But when I said, I kept thinking, I guess I'd do that by accident.

Like when I was emailing you yesterday, I thought, all right, perfect world. Our podcast blows up. We have a million visitors and we're getting paid like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Does that change anything? It would be a lot harder to stop. Right? But at the end of the day, it didn't. Like, if a million people are listening to this right now, like it doesn't solve my anxiety.

And in fact, it'd probably escalate it because now there's even more pressure to produce a good show. and be funny and clever and all this stuff that goes into stuff. So I think that's really good. And that, you know, like, yeah, if you're not even going to be happy for that end goal, that's awesome and big and you would die for, and like a normal person would die for, then that you might not be on the right path. You're right. Right, right, exactly.

It's all about aligning your actions with your vision, really. Yeah. Randomly, I do that when I'm buying stuff. But instead I say, would I rather have like this, let's say, shirt or this 20 bucks and I'll put 20 bucks in cash in my hand. And I always choose the money. They're like, bye-bye, shirt. I'm taking the money.

Because that's what you're doing, right? You're trading between money or this. What would I rather have more of? Right. I do sort of a modified version of that, particularly when I was younger and I was saving up to go travel. Anytime I was confronted with a purchase, I was like, okay, would I rather have this

or would I rather have that much extra money in my travel fund? Yeah. And I actually used to go to the grocery store, take a shopping cart, and walk around the store and do my normal grocery shopping. And then at the very end, right before I got to the cash register, I'd look at everything in my cart. And, you know, I always had a couple of things in there that were kind of like gourmet discretionary items, like, you know, really expensive, fancy juice. Yeah. You know? And I would look at that and I'd say, well, would I rather have this or would I rather have an extra $20 to put towards travel?

And then I would take a couple of items out of my cart, put them back. And then I would literally take that money, like in cash out of my wallet. And in my car, in the glove compartment of my car, I had an envelope. I would put that money into that envelope that I kept in my glove compartment. Do you still have that envelope in your car? And what do you drive? It's a white two-door Honda Civic license plate. That's really good.

I like that. So yeah. Did you ever catch yourself trying to like trick yourself again? Like putting something there you know well, sure you don't want, but you're like, I want to save more money. So here's a $100 bottle of olive oil. No, no, I never did that. But that would be good too. All right.

So going back to the good and the bad quitting stuff. I think, let's see. Yeah, we did the time stuff. So, yeah, bad reasons to quit being lazy, not letting enough to. time go by. Yeah, and to the time too, wanting to be super successful fast, like going back to your blog stuff, like, yeah, some people do make millions of dollars and sold their blog, you know, in two or three years, right?

But, like, realistically, the odds are against you for that kind of stuff, whether it's blogging or just any business, right? Most businesses fail, right? It's like a big stat. Knowing that you're in it for the long haul and you're not just going to dip out when, like, oh, a couple months went by and it's not going well. Right. And then you just leave.

Like, that's a bad reason. right provided you're in it for the right reasons too which maybe doesn't align all the way but and then something that I failed at too going back to that list right like you saw that list of I mean there's 30 40 things that I did for jobs oh the list of all the jobs you've ever had yeah like you know it's called like the shiny the shiny object syndrome or ADD or squirrel or whatever right like you just get so bored you're like oh I want to do a new thing oh I want to do new thing so you just keep hopping right which works to a degree you know depending how charming and clever you are, right? But it's not ultimately like the best way to do it. So just so you know,

Paula, I didn't say, oh, let's start a podcast together and have fun. Oh, but there's other opportunity. I'm just going to leave you in the wind and go chase that and just hope that that works out. Right. Like when we started this, the intention was to go big, to have fun. Like we've talked about earlier, you're very business and goal oriented and like there's a purpose for stuff. Right. And I'm very like, is this making me happy? and lifestyle-ish, right? And one of the downfalls of me not being such a planner and business person like you is that you do tend to, you know, you kind of don't have, like I was never reaching,

oh, I want to hit 50,000 and 100, and 200 and a million, and then I'll be happy, right? Like from day one, I wanted to be happy just recording with you. Yeah. You know, and engaging with our audience and getting emails and stuff. And all that stuff I do still enjoy. It's just once the cons start popping up and overcome it, you know, then you have to decide is it still worth is it still like are you still truly happy and does it match your lifestyle still after X number of months or years right and and shiny object syndrome is it's very easy

to fall into it because when you're in the thick of trying to pursue a goal all of the realities of what pursuing that goal entail start to settle in so for example from the outside a podcast might just look like oh we just get on the microphone and hit record How hard could it be? You know? But then once you're on the inside of it, you're like, wow, there are a lot of moving pieces. And, you know, we need operational management. And, you know, we need, like, there's just a lot to think about.

There are a lot of small details to consider. And I think that what happens is a lot of people, not just, I'm not just specifically talking about this podcast. I'm just talking about, like, the tendency of huge. humans in general, is that once we are in the middle of something, all these other things that are still on a pedestal because we don't understand the reality of them, all of these other things on a pedestal just start to look really good. And so, you know, you'll start some project and then shiny object syndrome pulls your attention away and bing, maybe that thing, bing, maybe that thing, maybe that thing.

Maybe that thing. And then you never stick with something long enough to see it through. Yes. With buying stuff too. That's why people buy big brand new cars and then they trade them in in a year or they get a new, you know, like they you can do with money too, not even just career. Like, well, maybe this is what's going to finally make me happen. And they're like, I mean, I guess it's like they get rich fast, get happy fast kind of stuff. You know, like it works in all different angles. Like you have to watch yourself. Like what truly deep down inside is going to make me happy. And it's, you know, with JD when he was on the show, right, he's like, hey, what makes you, what would you do? do now in a month or six months or five years. And he really tried to drill down into what we want out of life, like in general. And it involves money and career and purpose and stuff. But mainly, I guess it was purpose and what drives, like what you get excited about when you wake up. It doesn't matter what it is. But hopefully you can align things that match that as best you can. Right. You know, and even going back to like working and stuff, I mean, I remember I've been

blogging for eight years, self-employed for five, five and a half now. And I remember when I first started, I was like that typical hustle hustle. Like if you don't work 80, 90 hours a week, like you suck. You know, like everyone's going to beat you, right? Like it's like you have something to prove. And I don't know this to yourself or to the world or if I was just young. I don't know. But it's like you pride yourself.

And if you can work as many hours as you can and make as much money as you can, like you're winning. Right. I've heard the quote like, hustlers will work 20 hours a day so that they can make money in their sleep. Yeah. Oh, that's good. It's so true. And I used to think like blogging was passive before I knew what passive was. And I'm like, yeah, I make passive money. Like, dude, you blog like 40 hours a week. How's that passive? I'm like, well, when I'm not blogging, I make money. They're like, yeah, that doesn't work that way. It's not the same thing. It's not the same to five. You go to work

and you get paid. And then you don't on the nights and week. It's just like the opposite. But it's the same exact thing. You're working the same amount of time. You know, set this on your passion projects, which is better. But yeah, like all that stuff, I mean, I know we're going all over the place here. But I mean, like there's multiple reasons I guess for why I wanted to retire and let Paula take over the show and just like freaking kill it, which I believe you will. Thank you. You know, and I'll come on whenever you want to interview me or do anniversary shows or whatever. Like, I'm around. I'm not going anywhere.

Oh, yeah. I'm bringing you back on for sure. We have a lot of, we have a lot of shows ahead of us, Jay Money. See, which is funny. Again, like that excites me. Like if you were calling me up tomorrow, even after recording this and hey, I want to interview or I want to talk about something on the show, I would do it. And I'd be excited about it. Right. So maybe it's even a mental thing too. Like what, why is that okay versus like just recording once a week? How come it doesn't align? Like what happens? Why is it anxiety not there versus the other? Well, I mean, it might be that vision that you have for your life. It might be the fact that when you think about this show blowing up and and having a million downloads, like that. doesn't excite you. Like that's, you know, that doesn't align with your purpose. And maybe it boils down to that. Maybe. Because I sure like to talk about money and I like talking to you. And I like, I like the engagement that everyone listening sends in. And luckily, too, like,

with blogging and being online and still being in the space, like, it's not as if I'm just saying, oh, I'm out of here and then shutting everything down and then I'm not, I'm gone in the personal finance world. Right. So maybe that makes it easier to stop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess going back to the last thing that we were saying, the bad reasons for quitting, shiny object syndrome. And, you know, and that is not the reason that you're quitting. Like, this is not a case of shiny object syndrome. Yeah. Well, and I have a list of good reasons to quit slash retire.

Okay. We pretty much covered them, but, you know, there's like fine. All right. I'll just go down them and then we could talk if we want to. Okay. So, and I don't know if this isn't really that much order, but for me, this is, you know. Real quick. Before we do the transition, let's just summarize bad reasons to quit.

Okay. Yes. There one, you're lazy slash you don't want to do the hard work, which you have to do no matter what. So that's the bad reason to quit. Okay. That's number one. You don't let enough time go by to see whether you're on the right path or not or

you should continue or not. Like you just give up on the first obstacle. Right. The first rain in New York. Yep. There you go. Wanting to be successful or rich super quick and not realizing that it is the longer road. And that's kind of like the others, but I just separated it out.

Yeah. shiny objects syndrome. Yeah. Assuming that the grass will always be greener on the other side. Yeah. And that's all I had listed. But the one that I guess I'm just thinking of now is if you just keep going, like, it's obvious that it's not working out for whatever reason.

And you're so delirious that it's supposed to or you're just so stubborn that you just take it to the grave with you because you just can't imagine failing. Or maybe that may be afraid to fail. And so you don't quit, that's a bad one, right? Even though it has to do with quitting. Right. You know, that's real, that could be equally bad for you, right, regardless of what it is. Right.

Being afraid of the stigma associated with it. Yeah. I mean, even like on this show when we first started talking, and that's why I wanted to hurry up and hit record and us to get going, is because I have it, it's not in my stomach. Like, I can't believe I'm about to tell thousands of people that I'm leaving the show that like it's probably going to sound out of nowhere to some people, right? Right. And even to me saying it right now, I can't believe it because two days ago I hadn't made that decision all the way. Right. You know, so it's really, it's scary to do. But when you know deep down, like it's supposed to do, you know, or you're supposed to do it, then it's a matter of, you know, pulling the trigger. And sometimes it takes weeks, years. But as long as you pull the trigger at some point, that's good. If you don't, that's bad. Yeah. And I will say for the listeners, if any of you were in that situation where you feel like there's some project or activity that you should quit, but you're afraid of the stigma associated with quitting. I think that's why the word,

pivoting has become so popular lately, you know, because it's, it's not quitting. You're just pivoting. You're pivoting into a new direction. Yeah. Or I like to say you're refocusing on stuff. Like, oh, I'm going to refocus on what you do, too. And that is what I'm actually going to do. Right.

But it's still a softer way of putting it. Yeah, exactly. And you can email or tweet me or call me or whatever. And I'll talk to you, too, if you need someone else. I don't, you know, I like talking about the stuff. So those are all that, do you have any other bad ones to add to that? Or does that,

there's anything you can think of, Paula? Bad reasons to quit. I would say, I guess I would say that the other bad reason to quit, the primary one that comes to mind, is lack of confidence. Mm. You know, and typically from,

because I get a lot of emails from readers, as we've talked about on the show before, I ask my readers, hey, what's your wildest dream and what's keeping you from getting there? And overwhelmingly, a lot of the responses say that the biggest obstacle that they face is fear or a lack of confidence. And so normally, I think a lack of confidence manifests itself in just not starting. But then, you know, for those who make it through that hurdle and they do start, once they they reach that first

reign in New York once they reach that first obstacle the lack of confidence could then be the reason that they quit and that's a bad reason to quit

because you'll never know whether or not you could have done it unless you really give it a try and that means committing to something for a while committing to staying

in New York for a year yeah well and I think for me too the what if like I hate not knowing, like, I hate the what if I would have just done this. And, you know, I'll even have it with this. Oh, if I just did it a couple months, who knows, maybe something would have changed in my brain or something. Right. But like I'd rather have, you know, like you and I've

talked about started this, launched it and then decided, okay, it's not the right fit for me. But it is for Paula. So, you know, one out of two isn't bad. It keeps going rather than us never doing it. And then, man, I would still, because again, when people say, oh, you'd be good at this, you'd be good at that. Sometimes you have to try it and see if it is, right? Like, I didn't, when people said, I should do a podcast, like, I wasn't going to do it at all until you started talking to me. And we said, hey, we should work on something.

What should we work on, right? Yeah. You know? And we like, oh, maybe podcasting. I was like, I wasn't going to do it at all. But with you, I think I could do it. Yeah. And so I was able to test it.

And I wanted it to be more than a test. And the goal was to do it for a long time. but at least now I know, all right, you're a semi-decent, you know, co-hosts. So maybe sometimes good. You're a good co-host. A lot of our listeners say that we've got good, we've got good on our chemistry together. Thank you. It's because we're friends.

It's because we're friends. That's why. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we want to be recording this last episode. It would be a lot of different. Like, just that, like, that Jay screwed me. I'm going to be honest.

Now I don't even know what I was saying. But yes, I agree with whatever you said last. That I know it's true. All right. So, Jay, let's talk about good reasons to quit. We focused a lot on, you know, what are some bad reasons to quit? What are some, you know, here are the reasons. If you're thinking about quitting for those reasons, maybe you should reconsider.

But what are good reasons to quit or pivot? When do you know that your reasons are right? Yeah, I'll go down the list of the five that I have listed. Uh-huh. You can stop me if you want or whatever. We've gone over a lot of this, I think, because some of it's the opposite of the bad ones. Right. But this is the list that I made first.

And this is the list that for me is like, I guess my answer of why that I'm stopping, like, when it boils down to, right? Yeah. And the first, because I'm the heart got, you know, like, I'm the emotional guy. Like, my heart has to be in it. And I want to be super excited on all the things that can work on, you know, even I know there's obstacles and all that. But overall, like, I'm in it for the long haul and excited. Right. So that's like the number one for me, which is a good reason is if you lose that.

Right. Or you're holding back the other person. And let me pause you for a second because you mentioned when we were talking earlier about how sometimes something can make sense on paper, but your heart's still not in it. You use the ex-girlfriend example where she was like the perfect girlfriend on paper. You know, you guys seem to have it all, but your heart still wasn't there. Yeah. And the show, to me, when I write down, like, I literally made, like, pros and cons.

Like, like, I'm trying to really give it some good thought because it sucks to stop something that's taking off, right? And I think the show is, like, we're not wildly successful, but we're successful, right? So I made lists and stuff and everything pointed to on paper like, dude, like you're an idiot. Why would you stop this, right? Right. It takes a few hours. It helps your brand. You meet new people.

You like to talk about money. You love Paula. Everything seems like it should fit. But there's something, and I just call it the X factor. I don't know what it's called or if there's a call. But with the ex-girlfriend, when I was trying to explain why we should have been together, I was like, I feel like we were perfect, and I didn't say it this way, but there's something there. Right.

And at some point, she's like, well, I don't understand if you love me, we should be able to work it out. And I said, I love you. I'm just not in love with you. And that was like what, I guess, kind of sealed the deal. Yeah. And like you, right? Like, I love you, Paula. I love the show.

I love our listeners. I, like, have nothing but love and admiration for everyone here. But I guess I'm not in love with doing this every week or whatever, right? Yeah. So that's a big one, you know. And sometimes it changes, right? Like you can grow to love someone or grow to love something. Right.

So there's, you know, it's not like an end all be all. Right. But in my 35, six years trying to figure it out, that's like a big one. Once that kind of changes, it's hard for me to keep up. And as I said to you, and you've mentioned too that you've kind of had this gut feeling that something's a little off with me the last few weeks? Yeah. Yeah, I could sense it.

And I couldn't articulate why, but I could sense, I guess because I know you so well, Jay. I could sense that something was off. And I think what really got me to really do it faster than later was that I felt that I started to hold you back because you would say things like, hey, we should interview these people or, hey, what do you think about this? And you were offering all these really cool ways to make the show better. And I kept seeing the emails and then my stomach would hurt. I'm like, oh, like, all right, let me think about this.

Like, I just couldn't, I just didn't get excited when I saw, like, I got sad or depressed when I saw them, which obviously shouldn't be if you're trying to, like, grow something. Right. And your idea is, like, while we don't agree on all of them and we, you know. Compromise. Compromise. But by and large, like 90% of the stuff that you or I offer up or talk, I mean, even the show came out of the blue, right?

Right. Like, we know it's going to be a good idea in general. It just might not mix our personalities. Right. Right. And so everything you're on, and so the people listening, Paula has a lot of cool stuff that she's going to bring on the show. I didn't want to hold you back anymore.

And so that was like, I think what helped me even do it faster because it wasn't just me affected or the audience. Like it was you too. And so that changes things. And I don't want to be that guy. I just wasn't going to add anything good. Even if it seemed like it or I can act it or pretend that everything is good, like you're going to find out anyways, right?

Or the show I'm going to start like, getting all pissed off or I don't know how it would manifest. But yeah, so that's number one is the heart and excitement. Number two, well, here's an obvious one. Like if you failed, right? Like if our show, we still had like three listeners and they were like people we knew, you know, that was probably a failure, you know. So that's a good reason to quit or to pivot or to change stuff.

Yeah. Provided that you give it enough time that it could grow legs. Yeah. So I launched Afford Anything on February 22nd. in 2011, right? So in March of 2011, I opened a Facebook page for Afford Anything. And six months later, I got my first Facebook comment. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Thank you guys you had that one or two years in your goal there. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Six months just to get a single Facebook comment. Wow. So yeah, sometimes it takes a while for things to succeed and it takes a while. And it takes a

for things to grow legs. And that's why if something really truly is a goal, then, yeah, you do have to commit to it for a given period of time. You do have to say, I'm going to live in New York for a year. And after a year, if I don't like it, I can move. But for one year, I'm going to live here just to see what happens and just to kind of get you through those hard early days. Yeah. Well, and with the New York thing, too, I should clarify, like, I genuinely wanted to live in New York and say it and go for a year. And I wanted to live there like, you know what? Like I consider myself like a New Yorker as much as you can being a transplant, right? And so I genuinely wanted to experience it and have fun and be on the night scene there

because I was in my early 20s, you know, your freedom, all this stuff. So my goal was still aligned to live there. It was just a bad, it was just emotions kicking in too early. Right. You know, and going back to the goal. So that, so that was, yeah, if you failed the goal, On the other aspect, if you accomplish the goal, right, then in a way you're quitting it, right, whether it's you launch something that's successful, let's say you sell it off. Like Aaron, who we interviewed, right? He built companies, companies, been sold for millions of dollars. Right. That was quitting, you know, a happier ending. There's like, you have to decide to sell it and walk away or partner up or whatever. Right. At the end of my almost two years in New York City, I had accomplished the goal of living there for enough time. And, you know, I wasn't a New Yorker, but I got a sense of what it's like to be there in the ups and the downs where I can appreciate it. And I was ready to move somewhere else.

You know, so I had accomplished the goal at that point where I hadn't if I'd left after just a month or two. Right, right. You know, there was one time when I was in France and I had just, I was by myself, I was alone. And I had just gotten pickpocketed. Oh. So I didn't have a debit card, which meant I couldn't access any money. You know, I was like, well, crap, what do I do? You know, fortunately, they didn't take my passport.

So that was lucky. But I had no money. I had no way of getting money. And I was like, I was at that moment of weakness, I was ready to come home. I was ready to change my airline ticket and just say, you know what? I don't want to be here. alone. I want to go home. And Will talked to me into staying. We Skyped and he was like, no, you're going to stay. You're going to stay there. You're going to figure it out. You know what?

I'll FedEx you an ATM card. He's like, I'll FedEx you an ATM card. Granted, it's not going to get there for 48 hours. You have to survive, yeah. But humans can live without food for 48 hours. Right. And pretty late. I don't know how the story ends up how you got food or money. but someone of your creativity and prettiness and cleverness, I'm sure could figure out a way to get food. Yeah, I mean, I basically, you know, like found the odd granola bar or like I was staying at a hostel. So, you know, I'd just hang out in like the public commons area of the hostel. And if somebody had some leftovers, I'd be like, hey, you're going to eat that? Hell yeah.

Oh, I'm sure hostile people understand more too. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I talked to the guy at the front desk and I explained what happened. and I was like, sorry, I'll pay you as soon as the debit card gets here. You know, so, yeah, that was just one of those moments where if I had caved at that time, I would have just come home. And I was an experienced traveler at that point, you know, so logically, I mean, I've, I've been in much worse situations.

I've backpacked through Cambodia and through Myanmar and Egypt and all these crazy places. And like, come on, I couldn't cut it in France. Seriously? And if that happened, how long did you stay there for? Like another week. So in total, I was there for just shy of a month. Okay. So if it would have happened like on day 28 of the month, you could have easily just come

home and then that would have been it, right? Like you've already accomplished your goal. Right. Well, yeah. And if it had happened on day 28, like I would have been boarding a flight two days later anyway, you know, like as planned. That was a great example, Paul. And good job, Will.

It's all about other people in our lives, right? They set us on course, right? Yeah. Okay. So if your heart's not in anymore, it's a good reason to stop. If you've failed, legitimately is a good time. If you're ready to move on, succeeded on it, right? That's still considered quitting in a different way, I guess.

It doesn't line up with your priorities or goals anymore, right? Like, I think that's a big one too. Like when I started and I think it's kind of related, but like when I first started paying attention to money, don't. goal I had was to be a millionaire, right? Because that's what we all kind of, like, everyone wants to be a millionaire, you know? And so the goal was just to do that. And somehow over the years with learning and figuring out what I wanted, blah, blah, blah, if I get to be a millionaire, great, and maybe I'll have to in order to retire at some point, which is fine. But the goal is more to have a

joyous lifestyle as much as possible, right? Like, that's the goal. The money will help with that or the jobs or whatever, but the end goal is the lifestyle, right? I'm living, let's say, like, 75% a happy, as close as I can get it lifestyle, right? Because you can't control everything. You know, if you can get that down every day where you're relatively happy, you're doing good, you know, no matter what, right? I like the adjective joyous, a joyous lifestyle. I've never heard that before. Is that a real word? It is. It is. It's a real word, but most people don't use it outside of, like, Christmas. I will play Christmas music probably once every week or so.

Oh, really? Maybe that's why it's in my head. I love Christmas. You were just listening to Joy to the World. Maybe. Oh, my gosh. And I have two more. One, if you found something that's better or more efficient use of your time, let's

say. And this is careful because you don't want to do the shiny, you know, object syndrome. Like, oh, that looks better and sounds better. I'm just going to move. Like you have to figure out if it really is truly, you know. And for me with the show, like once we're on, like again, right now, I'm having a blast talking to you. I don't want to leave, you know. But if you're like, hey, Jay, you have, let's say I consider the amount of time that we put into it, whether it's thinking or doing.

Like maybe like a day of the week. Yeah. One four day a week. Yeah. I would agree. So the question is what could you do in that one full day? And whatever it is, would that make you happier or more excited or more successful or whatever? and then you compare it to the thing you're given up, which in this case is the show, right?

And for me, what I gain nights and weekends, right, which is family time. I gain a break every weekend, which again, I haven't had in a number of years. And then I also get a re, you know, now I'm going to say refocus and people like, oh, that's BS. But I'm going to refocus on the two sites that I have left, budgets are sexy and rockstar finance, you know, because there are stuff I want to do. And then so sometimes you're in maintenance mode while you're juggling. multiple projects. Right. And you know that too, right? Like you're giving up stuff over time to focus. And for you, the podcast is a piece of that. It's a priority. It's a big piece of what

you're trying to do. So you're not going to give that up. You'll give something else up that doesn't equate. Right, right. I gave up growing that content marketing company. There you go. We're basically not taking any more new clients. I got the advice once. Don't drop your clients. Just raise your rates. So that company technically still exists. except our minimum client threshold is so high at this point that I seriously doubt we're going to get any more clients. And if you do, good on you. Just take your pocket. Right, right. So, yeah, basically I gave up, the company could run itself on maintenance mode with the people who I've hired and the systems and the processes that we have. Processes.

So I didn't have to shut down the company, but I effectively stopped taking new clients, which means that one day the company is going to peter out. And that's what I gave up in order to focus on afford anything and on this podcast. See that? It works perfectly. Yeah. Maybe one day the podcast will be profitable. You know, when that happens, you can feel free to call me back.

I might rejoin it. We'll see where I'm at. I know. Right now it's negative cash flow. Yeah. Well, that's something too, right? Like, actually, that's another, you know, reason to quit or not. I guess I don't know where it goes.

But at some point, you're like, keep digging in the hole, especially if it's a business. Like, if you're losing cash every single month and there truly is like a shot in hell of you succeeding, right? That's another thing to be careful of. You can only go in so much debt where you have to pull the plug on the company unless you're delirious and you just keep going and going and you refuse to change at all. But that's the thing, too. so I don't know how much quote at this podcast is, but let's say it's a couple thousand, right? I'm going to have to write you a check because you've been fronting it now because we haven't

we've been lazy to do the paperwork and, you know, all that. So I'm probably going to have to write you a check for, let's say, $1,000. Right. So not only am I leaving, but then I have to pay to leave. But it could buy out. Yeah, right. And it doesn't change anything. Even if you were paying me $1,000 a month, like, I think the answer would still be the same.

Right. But the fact is, like, the money, like, this is just small potatoes. but a lot of companies, especially with payroll, if you're like all these families are relying on on you, like that gets into a whole other thing, you know, and some of these might not match to that level of degree. But for mom and pop shops, startup stuff that you and I are talking about, I think a lot of this still makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, sometimes what you have to do if the money is not coming in and you want to continue the project is change your monetization stress. while you are building up to this other thing, if that makes sense. So like, for example, we use Tesla as an example, right? They wanted to build a car that was accessible to the average middle to upper middle class person, a $35,000 car that was entirely electric and went from zero to 60 miles per hour in like no time at all.

And, you know, like they wanted to create a really, really super cool electric vehicle. But at the beginning, they didn't have the money to do that because that would have required a lot of development costs and a lot of this and that and the other. And so what they did was they developed two other car prototypes at a much, much higher price point and sold those, you know, $100,000 per car to the people who could afford it so that they could generate the money required to develop the $35,000 electric vehicle. I didn't know that. Yeah. Let's go back to this list here now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other example of a time when you might need to make money differently in order to make a project work out, what I did with Afford Anything, you know, I knew that I didn't want to monetize it through a bunch of display banner advertising, and I knew that I didn't want to go heavy on affiliate links and things like that. And so while I

was building the site and while I was building my audience, I needed to find some way to make money. And so I was freelance writing and then eventually starting that content marketing company. In a way, it took me away. It slowed down the growth of afford anything because every hour that I was spending on that was an hour I wasn't spending on the blog. But it also provided that income stream that allowed me to continue to grow the blog to the point where it is today where I have almost 27,000 email subscribers at this point. And so now I can monetize it by selling courses, which is what I would

much rather be doing. I'd much rather sell a course than, you know, put some flashy banner ads all over the site. Yeah. Well, and that freeland, I mean, that's what a lot of, that's how a lot of bloggers make money too. It's like a lot of people say, oh, I made, you know, $10,000 on my blog today. Really? Most of them is like, I made like $500 on the blog. 9,000 of it was from freelancing, right? And 500 was like a sponsored post or something, right? Which is still on the blog. Right. But the freelancing is really big, especially in the personal finance world. And there, you know, my route's different, but there's all these different ways that you can make money blogging. And I guess we've already covered that on the show.

Yeah. But that's a perfect example. Because I remember you saying too, like how excited you were to finally spend dedicate a lot more time towards afford to anything. Yeah. For a while you were just kind of maintaining and trying to grow up, but you were doing like 10 things at once. Yeah, exactly. So yeah.

So sometimes if you do want to see a project through, you have, if you don't want to quit a project, you might have to quit or at least delay some ideas about how you will make money at that project. Right. Or you can hustle on the side and do something completely different just for the money while you can keep this afloat until you can go back to just focusing on the one thing. Right. Because that's a majority of what a lot of people do. I know someone that's trying to build a site right now and she's like a librarian on the side. You know, she likes it.

It's fine. She doesn't want to do it, but she needs the money and she can't give up her baby because she believes in the future. Right. Right, right. Or the people who will quit their nine to five in order to start a business, but they'll still consult on the side or freelance on the side, you know, just to pay the bills while they're growing their business. Yeah. Yeah. Please don't quit a job and start a business from scratch like on the first day. Like formulate all this way ahead of time before you quit your job if you can and figure it out and earn money and test and fail and everything on the side until you get to that point. If you can. That's like ideal, right? Yeah. Okay. So yeah, so we've gone through a lot of this good quitting. Heart's not in anymore. Doesn't line up with priorities goals anymore. You failed or you accomplished the goal. Found a better, more useful, be more efficient with your time, right? I guess the last one that I have on this list, which I've talked about forward with anxiety, is paying attention to how it's physically and mentally affecting you. Like obviously this podcast, like, I'm not being harmed in any great way. Again, they're like good problems to have, I guess, right? but there's a lot of people that stick to jobs and stuff that like they're physically ailing and getting heart attacks even and gaining weight and a lot of times you know not everything's in your control right like sometimes you're just in a crappy situation and you need the money bad so you're

giving up hell right like i get it you know it's not all like rosy out there but that part does play a major role right like who knows right now and i have just anxiety that's the only like quote harmful thing i have with this thing right and so i get i don't know if that's a Is that mentally and physical or both maybe? Well, yeah, there's a mind-body connection for sure. Okay. So maybe right now it's fine. Like, I can survive, obviously.

But maybe if we were five years into it and it was getting worse and worse because now we're making millions of dollars and millions of people are listening, let's say, then that would manifest into worse things. Right. And again, like, you know, even hustle. And, man, it's just weird for me to say this. Like, I'm so used to hustle, hustle, go, go, like, work your ass off. Get paid. You know, grow your empire. But that comes with the price at some point.

You know, oftentimes, not always, but you have to pay attention to how your body and mental states are, you know, in order to make it out. You know, it doesn't matter if your millions of followers and money if you're in the ground, you know. I mean, it's just horrible, right? And the society, like, we're so, and of course, we don't make it much better as finance bloggers around money. It is all, like, work really hard. Like, that's, like, so important, right? And your careers, like, who you are and what you do. like everything's centered around that.

Right. But then like, do you remember that scientist that was like, oh, an X number of years, people aren't going to have to work as much because technology is going to be better and income's going to be better. So everything is going to be great. He forecasted this and everything came true with technology and money. But what did it is that everyone started working more because they needed more money and they weren't happy.

And so it had the opposite effect on them. Like he guessed that part wrong or not guess, but hypothesized or whatever. No, I hadn't heard that. Yeah, it's like, it's a famous one. Or maybe it's a famous economist. I can't, it's escaping me now. It's a really super popular guy. Like, if you ever knew an economist, it would be like that person.

But that's what he predicted. And, you know, as society, I think we're so, you know, like work, work, do this, get money, buy bigger houses, cars, all this stuff, you know, which isn't really adding that much happiness, if anything, compared to like not doing that, you know. And we talk about the reason for money and freedom. and everything. But anyways, all this goes into the point of, you know, be careful and watch these things while you're working or working on projects or working in nine to five. It doesn't matter what it is. If you're physically feeling it or mentally, stop and try and figure out how to

address it. Maybe you can deal with it and continue on or just change some things and you're great. But if you can or you're literally having heart attacks, I mean, there's people that have heart attacks. They're in the hospital bed and they're still working, right? When that calls the hard. And that's hard because mentally we're all, you know, this is like what we're supposed to do. You know, so it's just something to watch for. And, you know, and that's, so that's the last one I have on my good quitting retiring list. It's taking us like an hour to like get through. But yeah, man, I'm going to, I don't know. I'm just going to miss you guys. I'm going to miss you, Paula. I'm going to miss all our people. You know, thanks for listening and thanks for all the

positive support and nice emails. And I don't know. I'm definitely going to miss you guys for that part. And like I said, I'm not going anywhere. You can still find me on my blog or, you know, on Twitter, budgets are sexy. You know, and I'll pop on here whenever Paula wants me on. And maybe I can cause a little feistyness on the show for her. Anytime you want to come back on, you are welcome, Jay.

Thank you. And I wish you so much luck, Paula. And I love you and what you're about. And I thank you on making this easy on me, too, as nervous and, and as much as I've wanted to, like, throw up the 24 hours up to this point. Oh. I know you're going to keep this show going strong and it's going to be awesome. And I'm going to be a listener, of course, going forward.

So why don't you tell us if anything's changing or if it's staying the same? What's the deal? What's going on in your head? This is totally going to be the same show moving forward. We'll cover crushing debt, saving for retirement, entrepreneurship, financial independence, just a mashup of everything personal finance. That's awesome. So it'll still be the Money Show.com.

If you're on the email list, you'll still get it right. Like, everything stays the same minus wacky me. Wacky J. Actually, you're still going to live on in the blooper reel, Mr. Jay, Money. Well, you'll have at least 10 years' worth of my bloopers. Oh, and we're going to be hearing more from The Guy Who Does Stuff, Mr. Steve, our producer. Ooh, that's pretty cool. He'll be keeping me on my toes, so this show will still have a community vibe.

Good. I'm glad it's going to move on and give me an awesome, awesome show. Man, I don't know how to do this sign-off. You want to end it the way, the dumb way we ended the first one? How did we end the first one? Bye-bye. Oh, yeah, we did. Oh, that's right.

Oh, in my head, I can almost hear Steve starting to play the ending music right now. As if he's like, wrap it up, guys. Okay, ready? So should we say bye-bye on the countdown? Let's go for it, Paul. All right. Three, two, one. Bye-bye.

Cool. Boopy, poopie, poopie. Yeah, and Harry went on to blah, blah, blah. Oh, did he? I wasn't aware of that. He went on to blah, blah, blah. This one's awesome. This one's got by name a blah, blah, blah.

Oh, J.B. Roth says hello. I just got off the phone with him. Oh, cool. What did you guys chat about? Save the I was talking about. Hey, Jay, guess what we're going to do for this episode? I think we're going to talk about. What are we talking about?

3, 2, 1. Hey, Jay, guess what we're going to do for this episode? We're going to answer some reader questions. They're listeners, not readers. Ah, listeners. Podcasting? Hey, Jay, guess what we're going to do for this episode? We're going to answer some listener questions.

Okay, let's do that one more time. Why? 3, 2, 1. Hey, Jay, guess what? what we're going to do for this episode. We're going to answer some questions. You need to mess up more because all the bloopers are me. Hey, guys.

Thank you so much for listening to our show. If you enjoyed it, uh, uh, blah. All right, still again. Hey, guys, thanks so much for listening to the show. Uh, if you like what you, if you, Hey, guys, thanks so much for listening to our show. Uh, dang it.

I mean, it makes sense, right? If you like the show, then subscribe or end up to serve you. 3, 2, 1. Hey guys, thanks so much for listening to the show. If you enjoyed it, please subscribe and leave us a review. Thanks. Yay! That was odd.

We did it. We did it. And cut scene.