Afford Anything - What’s Your Why? Financial Independence, Debt Freedom and More

Episode Date: August 26, 2019

#211: Hey there! I’m writing this from Croatia, where I’m beginning five weeks of travel that I’m calling my September Sabbatical. From now through September 23rd, I’ll be exploring the globe and enjoying a one-month break. Today, I’m kicking things off with a community-based episode. Here’s the backstory behind today’s show: There’s an event called CampFI, which is a 3-4 day gathering for people who are interested in financial independence. CampFI holds around half a dozen events per year in various locations; I spoke at one in Colorado Springs this past July. While I was there, two other podcasters and I decided to interview the participants to find out their “why of FI.” What motivates them to build financial independence? These interviews and stories from the community are today’s episode. Enjoy! For more information, visit the show notes at http://affordanything.com/episode211 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You can afford anything, but not everything. Every decision that you make is a trade-off against something else, and that doesn't just apply to your money. It applies to your time, your focus, your energy, your attention. It applies to anything in your life that's a scarce or limited resource. That leads to two questions. Number one, what matters most to you? Not what does society say should,

but what actually is a high priority in your own life? Number two, how do you align your daily decisions in accordance? Answering these two questions is a lifetime practice, and that is what this podcast is here to explain. floor and facilitate. My name is Paula Pan. I'm the host of the Afford Anything podcast. Today's episode is going to be very different from most of ours. So if you are a brand new listener, if this is your first time tuning in, I wouldn't recommend starting with today's episode. Check out some of our previous shows to get a better feel for what we normally do, because today

we are hosting a very community-based episode. So here's the background. At the beginning of July, I made a presentation at an event in Colorado Springs called Camp F.I. Now, Camp F.I stands for Camp Financial Independence. It is a gathering that happens about five or six times a year in various places across the U.S., where people who are interested in building financial independence gather so that they can join one another, and we can all talk about reaching financial independence. During that event, myself and two other podcasters, Mindy Jensen from Bigger Pockets, and Paul Thompson from the What's Up Next podcast, the three of us decided that we would all

co-moderate and co-facilitate a basically panel discussion on what is your why of FI, what is your why of reaching financial independence? And so we invited the community to come up and spend around five minutes or so per person explaining what their why a financial independence is. And we heard a lot of great stories about people who were coming. coming out of debt. We heard a story from one person who's 22 years old. She just finished college and she is super enthusiastic about paying off all of her debt and then building to financial independence from there. We've heard from people who are on the other side. They just finished

putting their kids through college and now they're starting to build towards financial independence. We heard all kinds of stories from a wide variety of different people. And so those stories are what we are playing today on this episode. So, without any further delay, here is a community-based recording from Camp FI in Colorado Springs in which people talk about what is your Y of FI. Let's just kick off the podcast. This is what we are coining the pop-pop podcasting. And this is Paul Thompson from What's Up Next? This is Mindy Jensen from Bigger Pocket's Money.

And this is Paula Pant from Afford Anything. And so we're going to ask the question that someone needs to ask me. What's up next, Paul? Oh. What's up next, Paul? Well, we have a panel today of the entire audience. The question is, what is your Wi-Fi? So we're at Camp Phi, Colorado, 2019, and this is the first time we've had it here right in Colorado.

So we're going to ask the question of... But before this gets started, for the sake of everybody who's not in this room, who is listening, I just have to note that all three of us are drinking on the job. If this were the drive-through of a McDonald's, this would be a fireable offense. But so long as we are sharing money-related education, it's normal. Cheers. Cheers. Paula, are you saying you don't drink on your podcast?

I do not. I never do. And when I record the Stacking Benjamin's podcast, I am the only person not drinking. Clearly. Okay, so who wants to kick us off? I want, I start. Yes. Okay.

First of us, do we need to define FI for anybody who hasn't heard of it? Do we? People in the, uh, in listener land. Why a FI? Okay. So why do you want to do this thing that rhymes with why? FI. Financial independence.

I can be defined differently for different people. For me, it's having control of my, my, my time and my energy. And my why of FI is that I want to be able to never ask permission to spend more time with my family ever again. Because I was in the corporate world and I never got to take it more than a one week vacation for 17 years. I think Carl said the same thing. And so my big experience was a beach vacation trip that said, why don't I, am I going back to work? I have the money, but I don't have the freedom to continue my vacation. That's my Wi-Fi. My Wi-Fi is so I can work where I want to

work and spend my time doing the things that I want to do. I do enjoy working. I have had a series of not amazing jobs and I found financial freedom and now I can do what I want to where money is. is not an object. My Wi-Fi, this is going to sound crazy, is to work more. But not in the way that you might be imagining. My Wi-Fi is that I realized that I wanted to be self-employed, full-time. I wanted to run my own business. And I knew that there would be inherent volatility in that. And so as long as I could establish a safety net of at least at a minimum, lean financial independence, it meant that I would be able to work on my own terms as a self-employed person and ride out the natural volatility that comes with entrepreneurship. All right. So we'll offer anybody else to come up and join if you have what your Wi-Fi might be and we'll play the jeopardy music while we're waiting.

Wait, do we have to pay royalties for that? Probably. Hi, I'm Autumn. My Wi-Fi is so that I can do what I want when I want. And I can actually go to the little class parties in my daughter's third grade class that she asks me every time to go to and go to all of my son's events that I can work in the garden in the morning when it feels good. And we can go on vacation without having to ask permission. How long have you been pursuing financial independence? How far along on the journey are you? One year. Yeah. Awesome. What has been the most surprising thing about it so far?

Actually, how easy it is. I was surprised at how easy it is once I started listening to the podcasts and reading more. I was able to make very quick changes. We decided, hey, we're going to do this. Okay, we're going to do everything we need to do to do it now. And we have accelerated very quickly with it. And do you have a date or is that date or that number even important to you? It's not important and I don't know a number or a date.

I just keep having fun pursuing it. and learning more different ways to pursue it faster. You said you were able to make changes quickly? What were some of the big changes that you made? Or some of the changes that had the biggest impact? We moved to a lower cost of living area. I got a job with the state that actually paid a lot better. We purchased real estate for investing, including a banknote, a single family home that

we're going to turn out to rent and a mobile home part. And we learned about buying businesses. So we purchased a Napa auto parts and commercial business, commercial real estate. And we downsized to a Honda Insight for me, which at first I was really mad about it. But then I've actually grown to really love the gas mileage that it gets. So then nothing big. No, nothing. Nothing. And you did all of this in a year? Yes. So the natural follow-up, do you have any time management tips for mortal human beings? I often say that my ADHD really helps me with this because I am on buy and on real estate and investing 24-7 and I'm always calculating things and thinking of creative financing all the time. One last question.

for you for me is how did you hear about Campi? And this is your first time here, right? How did you hear about it? From the ChooseFI Facebook page and the podcast, they talked about it. And I immediately was excited about getting together with other people who felt the same way about finance. So you came from how far away to come to Colorado to talk a bunch of money nerds? We came from West Texas, which would have been a 10-hour drive, but we had to drive four-hour south to drop off kids. And then we flew in. I'll call that some dedication. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Hey, my name is Zach Johnson. So you're going to ask me, what's my YFI, right? Yes. Okay, great. Okay, great. What's your YFI? Oh, excellent leading question.

So growing up, basically, I had a list of things I absolutely want to do that are not going to make me a lot of money, but I want to do. And so it's a short list, but I want to be, I want to go and be, Second City trained. So it's a Chicago basically renowned comedy group where all the SNL writers come from. And it sounds like a really great way to just, I don't know, learn comedy from the start through 100%. And I'm really excited about it, but it's not going to make me any money. I'm not going to be the next John Mullaney crossing my fingers. But anyway, so I'd love to be a butler for a little bit.

Life goals. Because first of all, go ahead. I don't share that life goal. I have kids. I've already been a butler. So you don't want to look into the life of like the, the ultra-rich and just be like, yeah, sure, I can go get cream cheese for you at 2 a.m., you crazy person. Wait, wait, aren't we already the ultra-rich? Oh. Very good point, Paul. So the last few are, I want to be a cook in an Indian restaurant because my soul food is Indian food. And I want to be able to make it.

and it's the hardest recipes and I can never make it right. Shout out to my friend Van, who can cook like nobody's business. You should come visit. All right, I'll look for an invitation. Shout out to my mom. So the last one is I want to ride across the USA on my bicycle. I want to be a tandem bicycle. And I kind of want to have like a mannequin skeleton on the back.

Like his feet are zip tied to the pedals. So he looks like he's pedaling. and that's for personal reasons. The last one is I just want a huge garden in a house that I built myself. I think Mr. Collins and maybe Pete Adney, I forget who there was a podcast where they talked about the pride they felt about building their own shelter. And I really connected on that. And I was like, man, that sounds awesome.

I want that. But I need a way to get there. So that's why I'm chasing five. That's an excellent answer. that's what I would call living life by design and not by default. Awesome. So I have a suggestion for you. So what I would call that is my definition of that is called a life list.

Life list. And put that on your website. Go get your Zach.com website and put your lifelift out there and tell a word about it. Awesome. Thanks for this suggestion. Zach.com might be taken. Add that to your life goals. Who's next?

Who's up next? Sorry, I can't say what. What person is up next? Hello, my name is Chris. My wife of Phi is, I have a beautiful wife and two daughters, and I love adventure, and I want to take them around the world and do some very adventurous things that cannot be squeezed within a two-week typical vacation schedule. So that is why we have pursued Phi and are getting ready to execute on that.

And so how long have you been pursuing Phi? Um, it's similar to some other folks here. It's like I was pursuing it before I even knew it was a thing. Um, I lived a pretty frugal, save heavy lifestyle. Uh, but then once I started to find amazing podcast like afford anything and, uh, and that, uh, it really kick started the, uh, the thing. So probably over the last four or five years, um, has our, you know, we've officially been on the path, that journey. And so on that journey, what have you found to be your biggest? this obstacle and getting there? My fear. It took me a long time to go from the mindset of I just need to save a bunch of money to, oh, I could actually invest this money. I'd seen the stock market do a

number, and I had a number of family members that have done real estate, and they did a great job of scaring me out of never wanting to be a landlord. But thankfully, bigger pockets and a lot of amazing people there helped me to get over that fear. And so then I fart, or I did not fart. Well, maybe I did, but I first, I first bought, you know, we bought our first rental property in the second and the third. And then after that, they just kind of became cookie cutter. And it was just like autopilot and it wasn't that big deal. But yeah, it took a, it took a lot of months of me second guessing and running spreadsheets over and over and over and over and over again, to convince myself that this wasn't the dumbest thing I've ever done and I'm going to put my family in jeopardy, you know, and lose it all, you know, type of deal.

Was there anything that kind of pushed you over the edge towards investing towards finally taking that final step? Because I hear that a lot. Oh, I don't know if I should. I'm scared to do it. Absolutely. So when I'm 40 now, when my wife and I turned 30, she got a diagnosis of an autoimmune condition. And we didn't know much about that. And it was extremely. scary. And so I lived, I was following a script of, you know, you go to college, you get a job, you crank it out until you're 70 years old. Then, you know, in those golden years, that's when you kind of relax and take the time to really get to know your spouse and all that. Her diagnosis, it scared me at first and it scared us both. We realize we may not have until 70 to get to really

know each other and to live an intentional life. So it, uh, it expedited our call to action to really say like, okay, what are, what's really important to us? What are our values? And are we going to be able to do this? So the first step was allowing her to stay home with the kids, which I was, again, scared. You know, this is the theme here is Chris gets scared easy. I was like, oh, how do we go from a two, two income household to a one income household? You know, this is this is not what normal people do. You know, we work, we work, we work. Even though, you know, know we knew that she needed to de-stress and she needed to spend time with, you know, raising our kids and all that kind of stuff. So got over that hump and then that helped us to then start to

bust through other barriers. Thank you. Oh, hello. I'm John from Mr. Money Mustache App. And my Y-FI really came down to our kids. We realized that we only had a very limited window that we were given this gift. And we wanted to be able to maximize the time that we got to spend with them. And we knew that we knew that, that if we continued working in our day-to-day jobs, we got maybe two hours at night before they went to bed. We barely saw them before we left in the morning to go off to our jobs. So we wanted to be able to leave that behind, at least spend the time until they go off to college as much as we could with them and enjoy that together as a family. What was your biggest obstacle to quitting

your job and to kind of accepting that it's okay to leave and be unemployed? Fear definitely is a huge obstacle. There was this sense of need for more. We had been on the hedonic treadmill, the lifestyle inflation, and looking at our current spend when we first kind of ran into the Phi world, we were right at a tipping point where we were looking at our frugality and saying, you know, we kind of had lost our way. And so seeing at our current spend level, would we ever make it to being able to retire? We thought it's just not going to be able to happen. And so when looking at the Peace blog, obviously, Mr. Money Mustache, as well as Carl and looking at a few other people in the FI community, we were able to figure out that we really didn't need all these things in our life that we thought were important. We prioritized what our values really were.

It's about spending time with our kids. We don't need a fancy car. We don't need boats. And we went through kind of that stripping down process. And it's just amazing to look at how we live our lives now and what based on intentional choices, rather than just simply what our neighbors were doing and what we thought was a fun thing to do or try. So what were some of those cuts you made? And conversely, what were some of the items that you intentionally chose to keep in your life?

So it's the same answer for both, actually. travel is one of those areas that we cut. We had been spending ridiculous amounts of money. We love to tell us story of our Disney World trip followed by a Disney cruise with two, three weeks vacation. I don't remember, but it was a very expensive, expensive trip with the full family. And we looked at that and went, man, that was a car

that we just paid for with that one trip. And travel was important to us. We wanted to cut that, but we still wanted to keep it in our life. And fortunately, my wife loves travel optimization, as she likes to make sure she calls it. And so we were able to start turning cards and be able to find some ways to still enjoy worldwide travel, be able to take, in fact, now more time and spend that travel time with our kids just in a slightly different way.

So road trips, even travel hacking, getting flights, being able to stay in hotels for three weeks at a time. It's just been able to change the way that we travel, but still enjoy that time with our kids, which is really what our goal was. And so you were now retired. Is that correct? I would say that we are retired as a strong word. You're not gainfully employed. I am not gainfully employed. That is correct. So, I'm no longer working traditional jobs. So, and are you at this point taking withdrawals and living off withdrawals? We have started our Roth conversion ladder. We have not withdrawn money that we are, we're living out savings at this point. Perfect. Come on up.

Hi, I'm Sylvia, and I'm with SMI financial coaching, and the Y of five for me has been choices. I met my then-husband, or my then-boyfriend, now husband. Sorry. So, boyfriend, husband, in San Francisco, and we were making great money. I mean, we were making six-figure salaries, but he told me, you know, if you want to get married and have kids, we can't live in San Francisco. And I remember feeling just deflated. Like I felt like we worked so hard. We made all this money.

But yet I couldn't afford a lifestyle to live where I wanted. So for me, it really just came down to choices. Like I felt like I didn't have a choice. I met the man of my dreams, but he came from a different financial background. He came from a family that never talked about money. And so we started in a very different place that I imagined where I was going to be. And so I ended up leaving San Francisco, which was really, really difficult for me. because I actually spent my whole time wanting to move to San Francisco, got there, and felt like I had to leave because we didn't have a choice.

So for me, FI has been about choice. And then I also had a huge health scare, which actually landed me in the emergency room. That actually was the jumping point for me leaving my corporate job because I needed to take care of my health and I was in a job that required 100% travel. And so for me, it's just, again, came down to choice, like making sure that was I willing to put, my life at risk or was I going to make sure that money, like we had enough money to survive. How did you prepare for leaving your corporate job? First, I actually asked for a leave of absence. I was actually really, really scared to tell them that I had a health scare that, you know, landed me in the emergency room.

So I asked for a leave of absence, which they were very accommodating for. So I took a three-month leave. And when that three-month was over, my health still wasn't where I needed it to be. So that's when I came back and told them I needed a leave. So they were, they still wanted me to stay. They were trying to figure out a way for me to stay on. So they did try to accommodate. But at that point, I just realized, like, my health was like 100% focused at that point. And so what are you doing now?

So now I actually have a coaching business. I actually taken that time off and, you know, my husband had a job. So he was able to support the family. So I actually started, I had that time and that creativity to really figure out, like, what was I passionate about? And for me, it was figuring out how to help other people who were making six-figure salaries and felt like they didn't have choices and helping them figure out how to live the life that they could afford if they made different choices. What are some of those key choices or key questions that a person needs to ask themselves?

Great question. So goal-based. I usually start all my clients with goal-based exercises. So I had flashcards and I said, you know, rank, what is the most important things to you? And a lot of times people tell me that they have never even thought about it. They're like, oh, well, I'm actually spending all this money in X category, but that's actually not something I even value. Where are you on your journey to FI? So I would say I'm probably FI in the sense that I don't have a corporate job. So I have my coaching business. I love what I do.

My husband's employed still. But yeah, right now, I mean, we're not quite there yet. I probably think about 10 years. Is your husband on the path with you, or are you bringing him along kicking and screaming? So it's interesting. So he, he's doing what he loves. Like, he is passionate about his career. So for him, he gets the fire movement, but he feels like he is already fire. Thank you for sharing. Thanks. We'll come back to this episode after this word from our sponsors. Hey, so I'm in Croatia right now as I'm recording Sadspot, and I have with me a piece of away travel luggage. And I'm bringing the same.

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A couple of things. I can relate to some of the things that Sylvia said. Options. It's a bait one for me. I want to be able to, you know, decide what I want to do with my life. A couple of things that come to mine. Kids, I have two boys. I want to spend a lot of time with them.

I want to be able to travel. I want to spend a lot of time with my wife. I want to spend time with my parents too. So that's kind of the Y to FI. How long have you been on the FI path and how are you achieving it? How are you going about it? So I guess FI, FI itself, I've been on it for four years since 2015.

Yeah. And so far it's going well. I'm a big numbers guy, but I don't keep track of, you know, 10 years or 9 years for years. I'm just doing my thing, you know, trying to make sure that I'm optimized to the best of my knowledge and just trying to keep going and join the journey. That's pretty much it. So I'm curious what is your target? That's one thing we haven't asked yet, you know, the Y of FI, but what is your level of FI? My level of FI. Is there a number? Is it the 4% rule?

Is there, what's, when will you define that you are FI? So, you know, I've been thinking about that because, you know, a lot has been said about the 4% rule, but, you know, I'm still, I'm still young, so I'm quite away from, you know, being able to access some of, you know, the taxi for vehicles and all that. So right now, my perspective has changed more to, you know, how do I create passive income, you know, how do I create additional sources so that I don't have to rely on just one source of income, which, you know, right now, I'm full-time employees. So the one thing I can tell you is that, you know, nothing is for sure. The one thing is for sure is that, you know, as long as you're employed, you know, you know, everything, you know, anything could happen.

So right now, you know, one of the things that I've been looking forward to getting a lot out of these campfires, you know, how do I, you know, diversify more along the lines of creating passive income? Because I just don't want to rely on one income. So I don't think I answer your question, but yeah, I don't have a number. But right now, my mind has shifted more towards not a number waiting for me, but more, you know, how do I make sure that I create passive income to at least get to the point that they get to the same point where my monthly expenses are? At that point, I think I would consider myself FI. And so what have you gotten out of Camp FI so far this week?

I think the first thing is the people. I had no expectations coming to this. So, well, you know, but the one thing. thing I will say is that, you know, by having no expectations, I didn't have a framework, you know, like in my mind, you know, this definition, okay, I'm going to do this, this, this, or whatever, you know. So I came with, you know, my mind completely open, you know, I told myself, I'm just going to be a sponge. I'm going to ask lots of questions and I'm going to try to get to know a lot of people because the one thing that I've found really challenging has been building

community in terms of being able to talk about these stuff with, you know, my friends, you know, relatives, you know, even my parents, you know, it's just difficult to engage in a conversation around money. So being able to just talk freely to, you know, everybody here has been phenomenal. It has been very rewarding. So I have to say, the sense of community that I get in the FI community in general is just so rewarding and it's so helpful to stay on the track when you're not the only frugal weirdo out there. I agree 100%. You know, initially, I felt a little. I felt a little. little bit alone, you know, on the journey because, man, obviously, you know, how you have the blogs and you have the podcast and all that. What I felt was that I needed to have connections with people.

You know, the face-to-face interaction, it's super rewarding. So I think that has been the best thing that I've got so far out of Campi, just being able to connect with people. Thank you. All right. Thank you, guys. So what is your Wi-O-Fi? My name is Lee. I am 23. 22 until Monday. I am 22 until Monday. And I just finished my degree in electrical engineering in June of 2018. I kind of just had a goal to just become debt-free. And then I heard about FI and what came with it sounded like was freedom. When you graduate, you kind of expect to work a 9-5 for the rest of your life.

And I don't think anyone graduates and wants to do that. And so just to see that there was actually like an outlet or an opportunity to do that is what made me want to pursue FI. and then just seeing that like there are people who are doing it and it works even though it's not common for people in my age range to actually think that they can do it it's like I'm seeing people live it out it's real it can happen that's why I want to pursue five do you have a goal age for achieving either debt freedom or financial freedom let's say debt freedom maybe by 25 24 and then five by 35 but that's just me being like grace as like I just want to live well, essentially. I want to be able to live and have what I need

without worrying about it. I don't care to be wealthy or to be rich. I just want to live happily, make sure I can take care of my kids and enjoy life. 35 sounds like I'll be able to do that by then. What did you say, Paul, life by design instead of life by default? That's the best goal. Yeah. How do you think that you, like how do you plan to pursue five? So I was just hearing a bunch of different methods. So I was hearing about real estate, hearing about mobile homes. I'm learning that there's so many different routes. I don't necessarily have like a after debt-free plan yet. It's more so I'm just going to snowball it. And then when I'm dead-free, now I have a plan. Maybe that's investing. Maybe that's real estate. I'm not sure. But right now, it's like, I want to pay off debt. And then after that, I want to, I want to, I. I don't know. I just want to reach financial independence and be happy.

What caused your initial enthusiasm for being debt-free? Because not every 22 until Monday year old has that. It's just nobody wants to owe anyone money ever. And then just seeing that like when you get an education, the objective is to actually make money. And you're like, you're not doing that until you're dead free. So it's like, well, I want to actually make money and I want that to be mine. And so that was like, accelerate the process as fast as you can. And so it was just like, I just want to have a life and let it be mine.

I want to work and take the whole check. It was just like, I don't want to live the normal life or what's expected. I just want to live and be happy and be in control of my life rather than, I guess, whoever I'm indebted to being in control of it. So I would go ahead and hashtag that, I want to work and take the whole check. Yeah. So what audacity does it take to come from all the way from Houston, Texas at 22, almost 23, to come to talk to a bunch of money nerds in Colorado? It's just like, I want to take in all of your wisdom.

I want to soak it in like a sponge. I want to take your life experience and I want to use it from my own life. It's just like I'm surrounded by a wealth of knowledge, so why not try to learn and take in as much as I can? And I think that's when that's a missed opportunity is when you see it as I'm too young or something's wrong. You miss that when you limit yourself. So it was more so just like, I have all these amazing minds in the room. Why not come and listen and taking as much as I can?

You have to see as an opportunity rather than I'm not old enough or I'm not ready. I would say you're dropping the wisdom right there, listen up, right? What are you most excited about moving forward? I'm excited about seeing what life has to offer. I'm learning things about the FU period. Someone told me about that today. I was like I've never even heard of that. Just seeing all these different, like, these opportunities and things that can come of life

rather than just like what's typical, pay the minimum on your loan and do that for the rest of your life and hope that at some point you can pay it off. It's like, no, you can have control over your life and you can shape it the way you want to be. Yeah, I think that's kind of... I asked what you were most excited about. Actually, so for everyone listening to this podcast in their car or on their jog during their morning commute, some people might not know what FU stands for. I mean, they know what it stands for. But in the context of fire or fie, would you like to define it? So I just learned it today.

And it's essentially when you saved up enough money to where it's like when you go into your job. Like you can actually have the power to make decisions you want to make. If your employer asks you to do something that you want to do and you're like, maybe I don't want to do that. And then you're like, well, okay, you can't do that. Well, bye, I'm going to wash my hands with a job or in the employer is probably going to look at you and say, no, you, what do you mean? You don't want to do this anymore. Or just saying like, hey, you want a bigger raise. And they say, no, you're like, that's okay.

I'll just find something else. FUP is basically when you have control over your life, you're not dependent on that next paycheck. And when handled well and appropriately in the workplace, I think having FU money actually makes you a better employee and a better service to your employer, if done with the right spirit, for sure. Having been there and been in that place,

I poured my heart and soul into a job that I was able to push back and got, I would say, much better reward because of that and because I wasn't afraid of the consequences of not having a job because I got to keep the whole check. Yeah, I don't really think you're 22. So do you want a job on a podcast? So I think the next podcast will be started by Lee, right? Yeah.

Yeah, we're going to do that. Thanks for joining us. Great. We'll come back to the show in just a second, but first, do you work in the medical or health care field? Or do you know someone who does? If so, I'm sure you can agree that people who work in healthcare probably want to wear scrubs that are comfortable. So I'm excited to bring Figs on board as a sponsor. Figs is an amazing company that is making scrubs stylish and functional for nurses, doctors, dentists, and other medical professionals.

Every set of figs is antimicrobial. They're soft, moisture wicking, they're made with yoga waistbands, they come in a variety of colors and styles, And Figgs is quite generous. Every time you shop at Figs, they give scrubs to healthcare providers in need around the world through an initiative called Threads for Threads. To this date, Figgs has donated hundreds of thousands of sets in over 35 countries. They also make great gifts. I got a pair that I gave to a friend of mine who's a PA, and she loved it.

She was surprised to get it, but she absolutely loves it, and she told me that she wears her scrubs all the time, and that they're comfortable and they're stylish, and she enjoys wearing them. And speaking of gifting, Figgs also offers gift cards so you can gift Figs to someone you know. So whether you are one of those awesome humans that works in health care or someone who wants to say thanks to these deserving folks, Figs will make that easy by providing you with 15% off your first purchase by using my code Paula. Get ready to love your scrubs. Head to wearfigs.com, W-E-A-R-F-I-G-S dot com, and enter my code Paula. P-A-U-L-A at checkout.

That's wearfigs.com and enter my code Paula at checkout. September is Life Insurance Awareness Month. Most people aren't aware of that. In fact, most people aren't aware that they need life insurance at all. That's why 40% of Americans don't have it. But getting life insurance doesn't need to be difficult or expensive. Right now, prices are the lowest they've been in 20 years. And PolicyGenius has made it easy to get covered.

Policy Genius is the easy way to shop for life insurance online in minutes. You can compare quotes from top insurers to find your best price. Once you apply, the policy genius team will handle all the paperwork in the red tape. And they don't just make life insurance easy. They can also help you find home insurance, auto insurance, and disability insurance. I used them at the end of last year when I was looking at health insurance policies. I buy an individual health insurance plan. And I used policy genius to double-check my policy, see what else is out there, make sure that I was in the right plan for me.

So if you need life insurance, but you haven't gotten around to it, National Life Insurance Awareness Month is as good a time as any to get started. Go to policy genius.com, get quotes, and apply in minutes. You can do the whole thing on your phone right now. Policy Genius, the easy way to compare and buy life insurance. All right, tell us what your name is. Hi, I'm Becky. My husband and I came to FI very late. And so honestly, our why of FI was to be able to retire at all. We at one point in our lives were faced with, I'm not sure if we'll ever get there because we had traveled such. a hard path. But between falling into the typical American consumerism, not having any instruction or guidance about saving and being frugal, poor choices that we made, and then circumstances

that were thrust upon us, we found ourselves in midlife with no savings, no emergency fund, not really knowing how we were going to pay for the groceries. And then facing within just a few years of that point, facing three kids that were going to need to go to college. And we had saved nothing for it. And at that point in time, and the reason that I'm here is because I like to, not for myself and our story, but I like to throw this out to the public to give people hope

that are in this position of it's not too late. it's never too late to start making wise choices and turn your life around. We actually started at net worth zero at 50 years old, like I said, not thinking that we were going to be able to retire. There was a point when I thought we could pay on this debt for the rest of our lives and never get out of it. But we found Dave Ramsey first that turned us around and got us on the right path, got a debt free, got us investing, being more fruit.

It really took our mindset and just turned it 180 degrees. And I went from being a spender to really getting excited about the fact that we could cut our costs and just have a better life than we had had before. It was very stressful in our marriage, obviously, to go through what we were going through. My husband retired at the end of 2018 from a company and a group of people that loved, but a job that was very stressful. So we are recently retired. And between 50 and 63, we cash flowed three kids college and three weddings. Wow. So it's been, it's been an amazing ride. And I will tell you that it was as if God was waiting for us to grow up and make

wise choices. And as soon as we did, then he started blessing the choice. we were making because there's no reason why we should be where we are now just on our own effort. And so at this point in our life, one of the reasons that we are excited about FI is so that we can be generous and live our lives. I've heard this phrase and I love it, that you can live your life at the speed of your generosity. Oh, that's good. So, yeah, that's where we are right now. So how do you make the switch from someone who is very spendy to someone. someone who is more conscious with their money? Fear.

And it took, I mean, I have said many times that I never, ever want to go back to where we were, but if we had not walked through that pain, we wouldn't be where we are now. Because it took extreme circumstances to change my attitude and my mindset. You might call that the OS moment? Yes. Because you didn't have FU money? That's exactly right. Well, thank you for being so courageous and being vulnerable and sharing with that

because there are a lot of people who I hope are listening to this that gain some sort of confidence in that you're not the only one out there that has that kind of problem, and it is solvable. It is. I've been amazed at the number of people I've seen on the Choose FI Facebook page that are asking the same question. I'm 40 years old, I'm 50 years old, and I don't have anything saved. What do I do? Is it too late for me? It's not too late. You may not end up in the same place as someone else. Obviously, we would all be better off if we had started earlier. And Lee, thank you. You make me excited. But I mean, obviously all of us can probably make the statement of, gosh, if I had known this 10 years ago or if I had known

this 20 years ago. But you can also destroy your enthusiasm with regret. So you can't live with regret. You know, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the next best day is today. So I just encourage everybody to that that is in this position that thinks, you know, as soon as you find this message, you're like, oh my gosh, all the time I wasted. But it's never too late to start making wise choices and do the best you can with what you have. We live in a wonderful and prosperous country and there are opportunities around every corner. Thank you so much. I have a question for you, Paula. Yeah. Actually, it's just to prompt you to repeat something you said earlier today about the circle of influence and the control and how that is really the only thing you can control.

And how are we supposed to go about solving for that problem? Okay, so this is a reference to a presentation that I gave earlier today in which I quoted from the first chapter of seven habits of highly effective people, a book written by Stephen Covey. In that book, Stephen Covey describes first what he refers to as a circle of concern. And he draws in order to illustrate this a giant circle. And inside of that circle of concern is everything that you could possibly be concerned about, ranging from a zombie apocalypse to whether or not your socks are clean. And those concerns would include your age. It would include your income, your net worth, your earnings, but it includes everything.

It includes, am I getting gray hairs? It includes, why does my cat hate me? You know, everything that's inside of your circle of concern. Inside of that circle of concern lives a smaller circle. And that circle is known as your circle of influence. Inside of that circle of influence are the concerns that you can directly influence. And those things that you can directly influence are whether or not your socks are clean. You can directly influence your basic day-to-day or month-to-month spending.

Of course, there will be certain unexpected expenses. but these are things that are inside of your circle of influence. And he makes the point in his book that the more time that you spend inside of your circle of influence, the larger that circle grows. So basically what you can control, right? Focus on what you can control. A lot of us think about the challenges and the outside forces. And there's really very few things that we can actually control. And one of those is your reaction to your environment, your reaction to circumstances.

You can't always control your circumstances. You are where you are. Play the hand that you're dealt and do the best that you can, right? Yeah, one more. Let's do one more. So I'm Kip Bauman. My Y of Phi is primarily to spend time with my kids and do what I want to do. My daughter was born in 2009 with a life-threatening liver disease called biliria,

which really limited my time, expected to be with her. So I wasn't sure what would happen. I focused on health, which I actually want to. to present to everybody else here too. My main thing is I left work about three years ago when I felt I was enough by, I guess you could say, based on confidence from Mr. Money Mustache. 2017, I didn't know how long I'd have for my daughter. I took a 10,000 mile road trip around the U.S. for seven weeks with my kids, which was just a blast. My daughter was at the time eight, my son was five. Then I went to the pop-up business school for Ms. Money Mustash's

grand opening at his headquarters, met just incredible people. It's such a family. Alan Donegan was amazing and then gave me the confidence to say, I mean, should say not go back to my engineering that I used to do and then actually pursue my interest, which is promoting health, went back to school, went and got a certificate in plant-based nutrition, sustainable agriculture for my good friend, Tim Rie Hagenberger, who teaches it at Customerserver College. And that just open up the world to me. And now I'm coaching some people for their health. And it's just amazing to see people turn around. from, I mean, just despair and not knowing what to do, and then see them get off their medications and be so thankful. I mean, I get text almost every day from people. I mean, just thank me that, oh, I can't believe that I feel as good as I do. So that's my Wi-Fi. How did you go about pursuing FI?

I guess I was just saving for no real good reason. I was just, I mean, I mean, habits and stuff. I guess I built, I mean, fairly good. I was just putting money away. And then found Pete, or the mission. Samundum Moustache website in 2013, his blog. And then I actually made changes to be even more frugal at that point, thinking, I don't need all these gadgets that I kind of, I was a tech gadget person.

So I stopped buying all the, I mean, latest gear and stuff in and thought what I needed for. I'd rather spend time with my kids. You said you left when you were fie enough. Do you have plans to go back after your kids are older or is what you're doing now going to get you to file all the way? Or are you fi all the way? Are you more comfortable with it? I feel I'm certainly thin fie. I don't know how far beyond thin fie I am. So, I mean, I feel confident. I mean, especially what I guess going by the 4% rule, not necessarily saying 4% and keep on that same number and increasing every year, but 4% of whatever it is that year

will never run out. So, I mean, I'm being very flexible. I mean, my lifestyle has changed significantly in the last two years. So no plans for another job? No plans for going back to W-2. That's right. I like the word there. You said, thin-fi, and having you right here in front of us

and seeing that you're wearing on plant-based life shirt, he is certainly thin. And the epitome of health. All right, thanks for sharing. Thanks. So wrap it up here. Do you close out?

Okay. So I'd like to give a special. Thank you to everybody who joined and shared their Wi-Fi. It was Autumn, Zach, Chris, John, Sylvia, Juan, Lee, Becky, and lastly Kip. It takes a lot of courage to come up in front of a bunch of strangers, but we don't really feel like strangers anymore, right? Because we've been here for a week, or it feels like a week. We've been here for like 24 hours. And that's the power of campfire. Yeah, it's a time warp for sure. So the behind the scenes here is that in order to run a successful podcast, the behind the scenes is that you actually have no idea what you're doing. You make everything up on the fly. We came up with the idea to do this at dinner. And largely it was because I just wanted to walk down here and get a beer.

So share with us what you're actually drinking. Do you know? Oh, so this is from Crested View. Is that correct? Yes, this is from Crested View. And it is an amber. Alpin loggar. I don't know what that means.

But is it good? It is good. And so I have from Pikes Peak Brewing Company, a Belgian golden ale, and it's already hot, so I need another one. No, I'm serious. We're in another one. Oh, rich people at 2 a.m. with their cream cheese. Look at you. Yeah, where's Zach?

Zach, we need a butler. Well, I'm very pleased to hear that Paula Pant thinks I'm successful because I don't know what I'm doing and I am definitely winging it. I'm enjoying a lime-flavored truly hard seltzer because I just wasn't in the mood for a beer tonight. But I was very thankful that Paula suggested we come down here, record a podcast and drink. That's what I was going to do. Yeah, but he's too slow. This butler needs to step up his game. Zachary, the butler, brought me another brewing company from Pikes Peak, devil's head red ale.

Well done. And that's a wrap. Thank you so much to everybody who took part in that discussion. I'm interested in knowing what is your why of five? What is your why of financial independence? You can share your story in our Facebook group. Just head to Afford Anything.com slash Facebook. That will take you to our Facebook group where you can share your story with everyone else in the community.

You could also leave a comment on the show notes. Those are available at Affordainthing.com slash episode 211. That's episode 211. A little update about myself. I have at this point been in Croatia for about a week now. I am in DeBrovnik. And I am one week into a five-week trip in which I will be in Eastern Europe and then Washington, D.C. for FinCon for a week, and then after that, I'm heading to Japan. So today's episode is the last

episode of new content that we will be serving since this is the last episode that's airing in the month of August 2019. In the month of September 2019, we will be airing two things. Number one, we will be airing a few repeats from the archives of some of my favorite interviews, older episodes that a lot of people haven't heard. We will also be airing interviews. that I have done on other shows. So that is what's coming up in September 2019 on the Afford Anything podcast. And then starting in October, of course, we are resuming our regular content. In October, we have an interview with behavioral scientist Kristen Berman.

She works closely with Dan Ariely, the best-selling author, in the study of behavioral science. And we spend an hour talking about that. We will also be having Ryan Holiday on the show. Ryan Holiday is the best-selling author of Ego is the enemy and The Obstacle is the Way. And he talks about stoicism and stillness and how those concepts can help us as we pursue any goal, including debt freedom or financial independence. So that's coming up in October. Make sure that you stay tuned to this podcast. Keep listening. Keep subscribing or following. And tune into all of our stuff that's happening in September because we've got some great. eight episodes airing in September. I'm very excited for what we have coming out during this September sabbatical. Now, speaking of the September sabbatical, I am here in DeBrovnik with my good friend, Rose, and I want to introduce you to her and talk a little bit more about what we're up to. Say, Hey, Rose. Greetings one and all. Hello. Rose, is this your first big overseas trip, or have you? I've done some travel when I was younger, but it's been a couple of years, probably about seven

years. So it's very exciting to be over here again. And you are traveling for a month. You and I are only going to be traveling together for two weeks, but after that we're separating ways. You're going to be going on for another two weeks. I am. I have a wedding to attend, which is very exciting, a very good motivator for getting some travel in beforehand. And I'll be visiting Hungary and Austria before heading home. And, Rose, how old are you? I am 26. You had to think about that. I just had to double check. So, Rose, have you been getting the question from your friends, how can you afford this? Because you're traveling for a month, which is not an incidental cost, right? Definitely not. So I'll ask the cliche question that every traveler gets.

How do you afford it? That's a question. I've definitely heard it a couple of times. You know, I told someone about my travels and they were like, did you quit your job? I was like, no, I work somewhere where I have a lot of flexibility. And I have been saving money for a while. So that's been a big impact in being able to do this trip. You know, I planned ahead for it. I've been trying to make choices that are cost effective, which has been great traveling with you. And it's just prioritizing that this is something that I was going to do. At the risk of asking a dumb question, like I understand that in order to save money, you have to spend less than you earn. But specifically, what are some examples of choices that you've made, things that you've cut, like tradeoffs that you've made in your life so that you would be able to have the wiggle room to be able to travel?

That's an excellent question. I appreciate that question. I would say just kind of looking at some small things that add up is eating at home a lot. I don't go out to eat very much. If that was a life choice that I did, it might not have a huge impact, but I really think that long term I've saved a lot of money doing that. I drive a pretty fuel-efficient cost. It's not electric. Maybe one day I'll get to that point, but it's a Fiat 500 pop. It's small. I fill it up like every two weeks or so. It's at most maybe 30 bucks a tank. So that's pretty cost-saving choice. And then prioritizing how I pay off other loans that I have. Looking at the rates in which the interest rates and stuff like that, you know, I had college debt. And the very first thing I paid off was the highest interest rate. So I just knew. I wouldn't be losing money that way. Nice. And, spoiler alert, because Rose and I have talked about her finances, you have a Roth IRA. I do have a Roth IRA. Yay. I'm kind of patting myself on the back about that one because I got her to open it.

Yes. And it's at Vanguard. It's at Vanguard, Roth IRA, putting some money in every month. You know, I'd been wanting to do it for a while. So having a little extra shove in the right direction and some additional education, rather than just me trying to Google things helped a lot. But do it, you guys. If you haven't heard it enough from Paula, you've heard it now from me as well.

Just open one. Awesome. And Rose, okay, last question before we sign off on this. How have you and I been saving money as we've traveled? What are some of the choices that we've made during this trip to be able to make this more cost efficient? Totally. Yeah. So I would say a top hit would be similar to practice.

my at practice at home is eating food from the grocery store. We've been able to get great tastes, great flavors from local places, bakeries, all of that, saving time, saving money, not eating at a restaurant. And then choosing, like, public transportation over private vehicles. You know, sometimes the cost is worth it to get the taxi because of all the luggage or the time of day that we're traveling. and the stress, it's worth it to just pay that little extra cost. But for other things we're doing, we plan ahead, get a bus, get a ferry, and compare prices before moving forward. Yeah, exactly.

Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you, Rose. I'm very excited about the rest of our trip and then about your solo travels after that. Well, thank you, Paula. I'm so excited for the rest of our trip, too. And I'm excited to get to say hello to all of your beautiful, wonderful listeners. I hope I'm sure they enjoyed this episode.

and I'm sure they'll enjoy the sabbatical time as well. Thank you. That is our show for today. My name is Paula Pant. I am looking forward to this upcoming September sabbatical and all of the amazing content that we have on the show that you are going to be able to enjoy for the month of September 2019. So hope you enjoy it.

Feel free to reach out to me on Instagram anytime I am super active on Instagram. So let me know what you think of today's show or just drop by and say hello. Always happy to hear from you. I'm on Instagram at Paula Pant. That's P-A-U-L-A, P-A-N-T. Thanks again for tuning in, and I will catch you next week. Big thanks to our sponsors, away travel, figs, policy genius, and fresh books. To learn more about them and to check out the discount codes, head to afford anything.com slash sponsors.