After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - Black Death: 5 Strangest Cures

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

It was a plague like no other. It provoked strange cures like no other. Anthony Delaney takes Maddy Pelling in search of the oddest cures concocted in the face of the Black Death, busting a few myth along the way (sorry Plague Doctor, but you're in the wrong century).Edited by Max Carrey. Produced by Freddy Chick. Senior Producer is Charlotte Long.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds.After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal is a History Hit podcast.

Hi, we're your hosts, Anthony Delaney and Maddie Pelling. And if you would like after dark myths, misdeeds and the paranormal ad free and get early access, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries with top history presenters and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. Marseille, France, early 1348. The plague has come.

It moves like an unseen beast through the city, devouring flesh, shattering families, leaving silence in its wake. Bodies lie where they fall, some abandoned in doorways, the stench of death, of sickness and pungent medicines pollutes the whole of the atmosphere. It is a time when husbands abandon wives, parents their children. Often no one dares to enter the house of someone who is dying, not servants to collect their wages, not priests to save their dying parishioners' souls. So the sufferers are left to fight the Black Death in a private world of pain.

And yet, even in the midst of such horror, there are those who find opportunity. We're inside a merchant's house. Four hooded figures are standing over the recently deceased body of the Black Death's latest victim. The rest of the house is empty. Bubos on the dead person's neck bulge like putrid apples. The smell of death is in the air. Yet these four figures are cool.

Calm. With steady hands they strip the body of its rings, its coin purse, anything of value they take. A thin trickle of pus leaks from a slit bubo, releasing a sickly sweet odour. One of the thieves curses and presses a cloth tighter over his mouth and nose. In this cloth lies the secret of their bravery. All four of these thieves have them clamped tight over their faces. When they are finally caught and made to confess,

they are asked how they managed to come and go as they pleased in houses ravaged by the Black Death, to touch so many corrupted bodies and still survive. The secret, they said, was the cloth pressed to their mouths. For it was soaked in a magical concoction of their own design. A recipe that protects against the plague's bitterest attacks. It is a recipe which survives today and has become part of legend. Four Thieves Vinegar. Hello and welcome to After Dark. I'm Maddie. And I am Anthony. And we are back talking about the Black Death.

Maddie. Come on. I'm going to vomit. Like I've just said to everybody before I started, I feel really sick today. And then as I was reading that, some slit buboes and something pouring out of them. I was like, oh guys, I've got a vomit live and after dark, this is not the one. Well, we've already flagged this with our producer. He said that it would be podcast gold. So I'm hoping for just a little, a little bit of vomit. But my hands are gone really cold. You know, when that happens, it's fine. Everything's fine.

It's not good guys. Do you have any buboes in unfortunate places? Don't and how dare you be so personal Maddie Belling. Maybe it's time to check. Off air please. Okay, so in previous episodes, we have talked about the origins of the Black Death, the myth, the reality. We have also tried to understand what it might have been like to live through such a cataclysmic event. Alright cataclysmic, well done. Yeah, you're welcome. I don down for PhD for nothing, mate. I know the big words.

Today, as you might have gathered, we're taking a little bit of a lighter tone and we're going to be bringing you our top five black death cures. I feel like a radio DJ now. Counting down from number five this week. We need a little jingle. Press the button. Ding, ding, ding. Number one.

You need to get ready for things like a plucked chicken's ass, human excrement. Sorry, Anthony. Oh, that actually did give me a wave of it. Okay, it's fine. Mm hmm. Take a little breath and self-flagellation. Well, whatever you're into, I suppose.

We will be talking about cures, well, supposed cures for the Black Death. Supposed doing a lot of heavy lifting. Can I give you a little bit of a medical background to life in 14th century England and Europe so we know why these are the cures that came to the forefront during this time? No, thank you. I don't want to. OK, thank you for listening to After Dark. If you would like to know more about humoral theory, then stay put because I'm going to tell you anyway, even if Maddie doesn't want to listen. It is. So the humoral theory, as you probably listen, people have heard

of these before, but it's just useful having this in the back of our minds. The humoral theory basically, it believes that the body is governed by four humours. Blood, phlegm, black bile, and yellow bile. Everything's fine. Illnesses were thought to result from imbalances from these humours. And I wonder what's imbalanced. Mine is definitely in the tummy. So mine could be, I don't want to talk about black bile. That's making me feel really quite sick. You can just imagine the medieval influences, right? Just talking about like, you need to drain your phlegm system. Like here's your guasha.

Maddie, Maddie, Maddie, please don't. It's now in my neck. Okay. Oh God. Right. My asthma theory. Moving on. Why am I doing this podcast today? Then we have miasma theory, the belief that diseases are caused by bad air. Now this lasts into the Victorian era. This is quite prevalent. People, again, this is something you might have heard about before. And as a result, you have to purify the air by burning herbs, doing things like that. And then we have the religious

interpretations. You know, in the context of the 14th century, this is really understandable. You see plague as divine, right? Because you need to be punished for something. And as a result, we turn towards cures then of prayer, of penance, of pilgrimage. So these are understandable ways in which people turn to religion, in which to cure themselves of illnesses, including the plague. And then, of course, we have astrology. You say, of course, but sorry, what? Of course. What would you not have astrology? Celestial events, if you will.

And these are thought to influence health. Now, you talked about influences earlier. You know this still happens. You see it all the time on social media. And this thought was that the alignment of the planets and the stars could be, well, let's say consulted to help diagnose and treat specific illnesses, including the Black Death. Yes. Okay. So you set out there lots of different reasons that people might attribute to certain illnesses, certain diseases. I'm really interested in this idea of planetary alignments or as you say celestial events influencing things on the ground and influencing things inside the human body. It's so fascinating

to think of, I suppose, those medieval mindsets. But let's talk about the Black Death specifically. What did people believe was the root cause? Because let's talk about the Black Death specifically. What did people believe was the root cause? Because let's not forget throughout these episodes, we've really seen how this was a disease that impacted so many people across the world. We have focused specifically on Europe in this series, and we know that something like 60% of the population was taken out by this. So there's a pretty strong motivation for finding the cause and trying to get rid of it. So were there any ideas at the time or was this just a vague mystery that nobody could crack? Well, one option that I'd like to offer you is the alignment of Jupiter and Mars under the sign

of Aquarius, which, you know, clearly that's what caused this. Naturally. Yeah, yeah. And the reason this one came about was because the King of France at the time, Philip VI, he had the medical faculty at the University of Paris publish this theory of why suddenly Black Death was amongst them. And that was one of their conclusions. This alignment then meant that there were southerly winds that was corrupting the air and it was entering the lungs and the heart and infecting people. So this was one of the, I mean, that's coming from the very top of society. So that will give you an idea of the prevalence of these ideas. Elie Ziering You know how every now and then there'll be something that goes viral on social media about academic research and like, you know, someone will hear someone's thesis title and be

like, this is outrageous, people get funding for this. And I feel like, you know, someone will hear someone's thesis title and be like, this is outrageous. People get funding for this. And I feel like, you know, the University of Paris publishing a theory on the Black Death that includes the alignment of Jupiter and Mars would be something that would absolutely. Funding, gone. This is outrageous. And fair enough in this case. No room for us in this case. Do you want another theory? I will take one. Yes. Go on. Listen, we're here for this. So this is why you have to listen to it whether you want to or not. I have nothing

else to do today. Tell me. No. Another theory was, wait, when is your when is your leaky tap getting fixed? Oh, it's on Monday. Not. It's on Monday. Yeah. Yeah. Anthony has a leaky stomach. I have a leaky tap. No, it's not leaky. It's I'm afraid it's going to come out the top end, not the bottom end. Do we keep this in? Who knows? If you're hearing it in the episode, they've kept it in. I have no control over leaky stomachs. Oh God. Stay on track. Stay on track. Sorry. Yes. History. Some people thought that earthquakes could have been a contributing factor. Earthquakes, I hear you ask, Maddie Pelling, because if the earth were to quake,

it releases rottenness from the earth. So I guess that's feeding back into the kind of miasma thing like bad air, right? Yeah, that's super interesting. And I suppose as well, there's a potential overlap there with sort of like natural disaster and ideas of divine punishment, that this is something being enacted and released into the world by God. That's really interesting. Now, tell me this. Obviously, we, from a modern perspective, have very different information about how disease spreads. Was there in the medieval period itself any sense that the Black Death was transferred from person to person? We've got the

planets aligning, we've got earthquakes happening. Did anyone say, do you know what? I think it might be Bill from down the road who came around for dinner the other night and now we're all sick and he was sick. Maybe that's what's happened to me. Mind you, I didn't go to dinner with anybody. Sorry, that's besides the point. Stop inviting Bill around, obviously. Yeah, good old Bill. Yes, there was actually, but it came around in a bit of an odd way. Well, in one sense, one isn't that odd. One is that like breathing, if an ill person around you breathed and then you breathed in their breath. So if you're very close to them basically, but you'd need to be like breathing in their breath, like directly almost. So like a husband and wife

situation. Let's say that, like very close. Listen, I'm not straight. I don't know what you people do. I don't know what you do. A husband and wife situation. They're breathing each other's air in all the time, I guess. I don't know. That is what straight people do. It's true. It's true. Listen, whatever you do in the privacy of your own home, it's absolutely fine. So that was one way. But the other way, and I like this, this is quite dramatic. It could be transmitted by locking eyes with a dying person. Right? Love that. And they recommended a blindfold

in those situations so you couldn't, it's like, who is it that turns people to stone? Medusa. That one. It's like that. But you do, you do it with people in your house. I've never heard that before. I mean, that is genuinely fascinating. This idea that sight alone and I suppose there's something intimate about that isn't there about looking into the eyes of a dying person, but that that was somehow contagious. Oh, I'm going to be thinking about that for a while. That's really interesting.

Yeah, it's kind of bleak actually as well. It's not really. And also looking into the eyes of a dying person is pretty intense. Well, yeah. And also, we've looked at the impact that the Black Death had on communities and how prevalent death was and how devastating this was to towns, cities, villages. And there's something dehumanizing about having to wear a blindfold when dealing with someone who's dying that you are looking to remove yourself from that situation. And that you're not there to provide comfort for that person in their last moments. We know that people have these ideas about how this is potentially spreading. Is there a sense that some groups in society

are more at risk than others to catching this? Yes, you would have been fine. Because if you were thought to be dry and cold, you were less at risk. I'm famously dry and cold, you are less at risk. I'm famously dry and cold. You are. You're always cold. If Maddie's in a studio recording, Maddie is shivering her face off. Whereas I'm like, oh my God, it's so warm in here. And you just sat there in like a string vest and I'm in like four layers of fur coats. Nobody needs to. Nobody needs to be thinking about being a string vest.

And you will be able to catch all these episodes with Anthony and Stringvest on YouTube. But if you were too wet or too warm, then those were the people who were more likely to catch this disease. So for instance, people who were thought to have too much sex or too much exercise, they were thought most. Sticky, sweaty people. Stick to being cold. It's cold and dry like Maddie Felling.

That's the name of her memoir. Maddie Felling, A Life of Being Cold and Dry. Cold and dry. How lovely you are to me. I feel so appealing. So there she is now in her coldness and her dryness. Maddie, are you ready for the countdown of cures? Anything to stop you from talking about my coldness and my dryness, please. Can I have an Alan Partridge radio jingle, please? It's time for the Art of Life countdown.

At number five, we have fighting the miasma. Basically, that would be anything that you did to clean or purify the air so that the air that you're breathing in is not full of illness. Especially if you're husband and wife and you're just a bit too close to each other, like fight the miasma that's breathing each other in or whatever you people do. So there's not already supply of nice scented candles in this period. What are people using to purify the air? Incense, wood, anything you could burn really.

Wormwood was popular, which is by the way a key ingredient in absinthe today. But if you're very rich you might have something else which was extremely pungent. Oh wow, I was feeling a little bit better. This is not the one though. Sperm whale vomit. Sorry, those are three words that you don't want to read in quick succession. Can I just say, I saw sperm in whale and then I didn't see the vomit bit and I was just like where are they getting whale sperm from? But where are they getting sperm whale vomit from? Either way, this is making me feel sick again. Found in the Indian Ocean is the answer to that. And it was introduced to Europe by Arab peoples who were using it for perfume or medicine, but somehow it gets converted into something that you can then just burn directly in your

house. And then, if you didn't do either of those two things you could, like we heard in the story at the start, cover your mouth with something that was strongly scented. So you put something that was strongly scented on some fabric and vinegar was often used as one of those things. Which you know, you can see that vinegar being quite pungent and whatever else. On that note, Anthony, we have now reached the ASMR part of this podcast. I'm going to be introducing you to a lovely glass bottle. Hopefully you can hear the tingles and we're going to yeah, we're going to be saying, blood death, blood death, blood death, blood death. Do

you like a bit of ASMR? I love a bit of ASMR. No, it doesn't do it for me. Oh, I love it. Freaks me out. So in our ASMR bottle, producer Freddie has organized for these to be sent to us. These were delivered to our homes. Can I just say also, delivered with no context initially, Freddie, our producer, forgot to tell us these were coming and I was like, why have you sent us this in the post?

Who has sent us this? These are glass spray bottles from a business called the Purbeck Apothecary. And this is inside- Is Purbeck a place? Yes, on the South Coast. It's very pretty. This is the famed cure for thieves vinegar that Anthony spoke about in the introduction. Anthony, are you smelling or tasting? How brave are you feeling? I'm gonna, despite the threat of vomiting, I'm gonna taste it because, have you smelt this yet? No, I haven't opened mine yet. Shall I smell it first? I'm gonna smell it.

Smell it first. Okay. Yeah. Shaking the bottle. You sprayed way too much. You sprayed way too much. Oh my god. Oh my god. Don't ever do that again. Your house is going to reek. Oh my god. I did one spray and I was like no it's too much.

And you just did about four. I committed. Oh wow. And she kind of sprayed it across her entire body so she's now going to have that. I was trying to do it near the microphone so you guys could hear it. Oh my God. Okay. That is in my nose. My eyes are watering.

Oh my God. I'm actually crying. Okay. Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay. That is.

Oh my God. It's awful, right? It's so bad. Okay. Oh my God. I'm genuinely crying. as one might expect. It is vinegary. I'm looking at the ingredients list here. Organic apple cider, at least it's organic. Wormwood, meadow sweet, lavender, can't smell the lavender currently. No. Hyssop, marjoram, mint, thyme, sage,

cloves, garlic, that's all fine. And sweet flag. I'm not sure what that is. Okay, that wow. I oversprayed my friend. I oversprayed. You did. Yeah. I was gonna say based on the overspraying. I am not tasting that, but knock yourself out. Go on. I'm only going to do a small bit. If this makes me vomit. Okay, hold on. I'm scared. I feel like we're on I'm a celebrity. Where are you spraying? Are you going to spray it into your mouth? Yeah, where else would I spray it? Maybe spray it on your hand and then lick it or something. Oh no, because then my hand's going to smell a bit. Hold on. No, let's just do it.

I'm gonna do it. But I'm gonna do it just a small spray. Why do I get the impression we would not survive the Black Death in any way, shape or form? Well, we might if we didn't use these quack remedies. Okay, hold on. Oh God, I'm scared. Okay, wait. Oh, I don't like it. No, no, no. No, no, no. I don't like it. The panic is real. Oh, he's swigging water. Deep breaths. Oh my god, no.

Oh my god. That tastes like absolute cat piss. I've never tasted cat piss. But like, oh my god. It's on my face as well because I didn't have a very good aim. Oh my god. Okay. Okay.

I need some more water. So nobody is going to want to be breathing in air anywhere near us anytime soon. It's on my lips. It's on my lips. Oh, I don't like it. Who? Yeah. Oh my God. It's awful. I don't know what that tastes like because I've never tasted anything like it. It's awful. So do you want to know the history behind this? Right. So the story goes. I love the way Maddie's happy. I'm you want to know the history behind this, right? So the story goes... I love the way Maddie's happy. I'm supposed to be doing it, but Maddie's happy to do it because I can't bloody do it.

I'm taking over. I'm taking control. So the story goes that during the Black Death, there were four thieves who stole from some of the infected bodies. They robbed the bodies of the dead without catching the disease, even though they came into close contact with them. And when these four thieves were caught, they were examined and interrogated. And it turns out they had created a distilled vinegar concoction containing things like cloves, lemons, cinnamon, eucalyptus and rosemary, very similar to what we are currently reeking of. And it was thought that this had kept them safe from harm. Well, if they were safe from harm, it wasn't this that kept them safe from harm. Yeah,

Maddie, that's just absolutely disgusting. I don't like it and never make me do that again. I know. like it and never make me do that again. No, thank you very much. Okay. So obviously, whether or not this had any kind of medical practical usefulness, this was a concoction along with many others that was kind of floating around in use as a way to ward off the plague. Is this the kind of concoction that would end up in those beak-like noses of the plague doctors. Because that's an image that I have associated with the Black Death. So my questions are, not very well put, number one. She's reviewing herself in real time on the podcast, okay. I'm literally stinging so much from this vinegar that I sprayed on myself.

It's really distracting, isn't it? I am struggling. It's so distracting. I totally agree. I'm just here going, I feel like I'm flailing in this room surrounded by vinegar. My nose is running. Like this is, it's wild. It's completely wild. And I've sprayed it on my clothes so I'm going to have to go change the second we're done

with this. I have recovered slightly. Okay. Yeah. So number one question is, are plague doctors real? Is that something that we have inherited that's part of popular culture today? And two, were they putting things like this in their nose? People were putting stuff to their nose, stuff like this to their nose, yes, but not in the

plague doctor image that you have. Now, time honoured after dark tradition, I have an image for you, Maddie, that is our stereotypical plague doctor. Just describe it to us. We'll put this on our socials and tell us what we can see and then we'll talk about the legitimacy of this in terms of the 14th century. Okay, so this is the stereotypical image that I'm sure lots of you are thinking of right now. So this is a figure, possibly a male figure, in a black sort of tabard cloak situation with a black hat on top. They have got very lovely looking medieval shoes with little, slightly more sort of early modern shoes really, that are also black but with these nice red ribbons.

They've got what look to me to be gloved hands, although there's some interesting animalistic claw-like nails coming out the ends of the fingers. And of course, on the face is a mask. It is, I suppose today you describe it almost as a sort of steampunk mask. That's very much the sort of aesthetic that has adopted this image. It's a bird-like mask with a big beak that protrudes from under the brim of the hat quite far out actually, and there are these kind of vast black discs for eyes, presumably so that the person beneath can see out. And my very limited knowledge of this period is supposedly that herbs and other strong smelling items were put into the beak as a way of warding off the illness as these people who were plague doctors question mark would go about their businesses or a way of them being able to walk amongst the

diseased and not die. Is this true? Maddie, you have been lied to and misled and I am outraged on your behalf. Thank you. Take a look down there. Take a look at the very bottom of the image. You'll see some very decorative writing. There is a date. It says Anno. Can you read that date for me, please? 1656. This is far too late. Okay, so is this a play doctor that really existed in the 17th century then or is this something that has been invented in that moment?

Yeah, it's a 17th century doctor. There is no evidence for these masks having existed during the 14th century. So that doesn't mean to say that doctors weren't taking some of those precautions. You know, you're talking about putting smelling things in the beak and all that kind of thing. That did happen. They had sponges that they would put to their mouths, but as far as we're aware, in the context of the 14th century, they're doing that manually. They're not dressed like this. They don't look like this.

So in so many people's minds, this is the 14th century plague doctor. But it's actually a 17th century thing. There we are, busting myths and vomit inducing in the process. If you're like me and you love history, but in particular you love the smutty, salacious, gossipy history, then do I have the perfect podcast for you. If you fancy finding out about the slippery origins of lube or how Vikings linked sex and magic together, then listen no further. Join me, Kate Lister, on Betwixt the Sheets where I delve into the most outrageous, the most taboo and the downright sexiest parts of our history. It's the kind of history that you probably wouldn't bring

up at a family lunch, but you might bring it up down the pub. From the history of swear words to answering important questions like just how incestuous were Neanderthals? And so much more. Listen every Tuesday and Friday wherever it is that you get your podcasts. A podcast by History Hit. Okay, so we've had fighting miasma in our countdown. Can we please now have number four? At number four we have flagellation. Oh good. Yeah, as you do. So we have individuals, well groups of individuals who are known as flagellants.

Now to flagellate oneself, I need to be really careful what I'm saying here, means to basically whip yourself or to hit yourself or to hurt yourself, inflict damage on yourself physically. They're all over Europe really. This is quite widespread and drawn from all levels of society. And this is a religious practice, right? Well, it comes from religious practice. I think it still has religious meaning, but it becomes kind of social and cultural as well because they are not in religious settings necessarily, you know what I mean, during this time period.

So people are doing this in their own homes. They're doing it in their own homes, but they're also traveling around. So you're going to villages, seeing people in the middle of villages who are self-flagellating as a way to rid that villages sins in order that the sicknesses are going. So it can be performative. It's not, it's not just a private thing. That's so interesting. I mean, yeah, I mean, when we think about sort of prayer and other spiritual practices in this era, obviously you think about people going to church, going to mass, experiencing that as a community, but also about people saying their prayers in private. And this is interesting.

This is actually something that's happening maybe predominantly out in the open, and that it's something to be witnessed and potentially a way to ward off disease. Bizarre. Well, it is bizarre. The rationale was that this self-punishment would atone for humanity's sins, and it would, I suppose, appease the divine wrath that was causing the plague. And as a result, it was carried out for a period of 33 and a half days, which of course corresponds with Christ's years. You'd be glad when you got to that half day, be like, oh, just a half day of working myself today. Mary, we're nearly there.

It's nearly over. I can stop self-flagellating. Also, on a practical medical note, if you have flagellated yourself and presumably broken the skin, I'm thinking of people sort of flagellating on their back and maybe breaking the skin on their back with some kind of leather instrument, I suppose it would be a whip made maybe from rope or leather, that is opening you up to literally opening you up to all kinds of infections during the plague. Like this is not necessarily a practice that is going to help in any way, shape or form

and might make things worse. So as a doctor of science, which you now are Maddie, I am a medical doctor. Are we thinking effective or not effective at our number four cure? I'm going to say not effective. Ding ding ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Clearly not effective. Yes. Shall we move on to another of our top five countdowns? This comes in at number three

and it is very loosely titled Medicine. Yeah. OK, so let's get a little bit more specific. Medicine in the medieval period falls into three categories. We have purgatives, which cleans the humours. I feel like you maybe need that today. Yes, Maddie. I have. Yes, I need some kind of healing power today, definitely. I'm feeling

a little bit better as we go through this, ironically, weirdly. Then the second type of medicine was a cordial, which sounds like a kind of a diluted squash thing to me, but there you go. That would be looking to strengthen your heart and your brain and your liver. And then the third type of medicine was the antidotes, which, you know, we're kind of familiar with that and it neutralizes, so neutralizes poison. So that would help to fight the disease itself. So we have purgatives, cordials, and antidotes. CK Well, tell me a bit more about antidotes, because I think this is very interesting. You know, the idea of purging, I suppose, continues well into the 19th century and possibly even the 20th. You know, thinking about people

being bled or having leeches applied to them, that that's an idea that exists for a really long time. Cordials, I suppose, you know, the idea of strengthening yourself with some kind of liquor or treatment of some kind. But antidotes is really interesting to me because this idea that you can neutralize a poison that's entered your body or a disease, that sounds like that's going to be the most successful thing to take some medication that is going to counteract what's happening to you. That seems like it would be scientifically more likely to work, right? That's how medicine works. You're welcome. I do have that medical degree. So tell me a little bit more about the kinds of antidotes that were being taken. I will now in a minute, but before I do

that, I need to ask you a question. In this country, well, we're both in Britain at the moment. In this country, is flat 7 up a thing that's used to cure all ills? What is, what? Flat 7 up, okay, this is Irish then. So no matter what is wrong with you in Ireland, there is nothing that flat 7 up can't cure. If you are sick and a child, the first thing that's sent for, certainly was back in my day, is flat 7up. Flat 7up cures all ills and so as such, flat 7up must be some kind of an antidote to absolutely every sickness.

Well, if only they'd had it in the medieval period, the Black Death would have been cured. They had something called Theriac instead. Not quite as catchy as that. Needs some catchier marketing. Branding, right? Yes, yeah. It is a compound. It had 80 ingredients. I'm already tired.

I'm never going to make this. I hope Freddie doesn't send whatever the hell this is to our doors next week where we have to eat this as well. Well, actually, hold on. It doesn't sound so bad. Cinnamon, saffron, expensive, rhubarb, pepper, ginger. That all sounds like the kind of thing, again, thinking about social media wellness. You

know, that's the kind of thing you put in a blender and then make into ice cubes to use as tea at a later date, right? You spoke a little too soon, Maddie, because the next set of ingredients is snake venom, poisonous sea onion, and often opium, which makes sense. The opium is doing anything there, right? That's just setting you off on a... I mean, I'd love to know what happens when you mix opium with snake venom and poisonous sea onion. Dead. 100% dead. Yeah, I mean, if you weren't already dead a plague, this sounds like it's not going to be the

one. Okay, interesting. Were there sort of varying recipes of this? Could you, for example, could you just use the cinnamon, saffron, rhubarb, pepper and ginger and be like, I'll leave it at that. Do you have to have the opium? No, because like, who's going to have easy access to snake venom? You put this together as much as you can to the extent that you have. Yeah, although I will say, you know, you mentioned that saffron is incredibly expensive. It's still one of the most expensive or the most expensive spice in the world, right? So what would have been easier to come by as a medieval, maybe not peasant, but someone from the lower

orders? Would it have been saffron or would it have been snake venom? Depending on where you are, snake venom, I'm guessing. Like if you're in Ireland, no, because St. Patrick had gotten rid of all the snakes. But anywhere else. Has anyone ever tried to recreate this? I feel like this is, this would be a really good YouTube series. Well, the Pervek Apothecary needs to get onto this. This is, this is her next installment. Yeah, well, it's right by the sea, so those sea onions will be easy to find. But there was a Polish team of pharmacists in 2024 who made a version of this. And apparently it just looked like black sludge. I mean, I could have guessed that, to be fair.

Yeah, not surprised. Do you want to know the rationale behind this? Like why they thought this would work? Well, I'm guessing it was just if you put enough stuff into some black sludge, one of those ingredients is going to pay off maybe slash kill you immediately. Yeah, sure. Yes. But also because it was like thought to be an ancient cure so that it had lingered for thousands of years by that like it was thought to come from antiquity. And so the reputation and also the prestige, right, because a lot of those ingredients can be

quite prestige ingredients. So they're like, well, if you have this, then you kind of know And so the reputation and also the prestige, right? Because a lot of those ingredients can be quite prestige ingredients. So they're like, well, if you have this, then you kind of know what you're doing. This should have helped. But obviously. So it's like plague, but make it bougie. You have to demonstrate your social standing by, oh, you mean you don't have snake venom and opium? We do. Oh no. Yeah, yeah. Okay, back to Maddie's scientific degree here. Do we think this was effective or not effective? I'm sort of torn on this one because I think the fact that it has opium in, and we know that people use opium throughout the centuries for pain relief, to relieve things like anxiety. I mean, it's definitely having some effect on you, whether it's useful at fighting plays and other things. But I think this is going to give you a sort of reaction

or symptoms, right? Yeah. But I think you're right about the opium that that's going to have some kind of suffering alleviation attached to it. I mean, that can have other side effects too, depending on the quantity of opium that's put in there. But, and actually just incidentally, the Polish team that recreated it in 2024, they said it basically is a placebo. But you know, opium, you just have to take into consideration opium is going to have some kind of an effect on the senses and on your mind frame. So it could potentially alleviate some of the suffering. And maybe that was seen as part of the cure or any potential cure but certainly there's no medical reason why you would be better from having ingested Theriac. Flat 7 up however. Okay, number two please, in the countdown. We're hurtling Mad, towards number one, but at number two, actually, there's a world

in which this may have been, this should have been number one, but it's coming at number two, the people have spoken, and at number two, no people have spoken, just the producers, they put it in this order. At number two, we have the use of a live chicken's arse, Maddie. Oh no, poor chickens. Okay, oh God, dare I ask. Oh no, poor chickens. Okay. Oh God, dare I ask? Oh my God, I just realized it's alive.

Yeah. It's alive. The chicken's alive. Okay, what's happening to the chicken? Tell me quickly. Right. Pluck the feathers from around the bumhole of the chicken and then place that bumhole onto the person's bubo, like the lumps they get.

Wait, place the chicken's bottom or place the feathers? Place the bottom? Yeah, the arsehole. Yeah. Onto the bubo. I have no words. It's like a reverse egg. So the first account we have of using this method is from 1348 from a Catalan author. Sorry, can you imagine being remembered in history? Your legacy is that you once wrote

down that you need to put a chicken's ass on someone's bubo. Bubo is a weird word. I don't like it. We're going to need to think of a different word for that. Bubo sounds rude or something. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's not the most appealing thing anyway. Okay, go on. It's not, but I can make it worse, because this is absolutely vile. Sometimes the bubo was lanced first to draw out the poison, and then the chicken was used to draw out more. The chicken's arse was used to draw out more. Now isn't that absolutely disgusting?

Yes. Also, very unclean. It's literal. Yes. Yes. It's not great. Okay, okay. So please lay this out for me. What is the thinking here? Because this of all the other cures do feel if you were in the medieval period, do you know what? They seem sensible. There are ingredients there that were used in other medicines that have then and today known benefits if you ingest them.

I can't possibly conceive of what the use of a chicken's ass would be. Well, randomly there is a logic to it. It's not good logic, but there is a logic to it. Well, no, hold on. Okay, let me hear me out. Again, we need to go back to the ancient world. Chickens and chicken broth were seen as a useful source of kind of medicine and healing. So the broth thing. If you're poorly now, you have chicken soup.

Yeah. That's still a thing, right? So like this was seen as being particularly effective against poisons. So the chicken itself, but the chicken arse. Yeah, but where's the arse coming in here? Because it's one thing to make a nice soup out of a nice chicken or roast it or whatever. You know, that's lovely. No, no to the chicken bum.

No, and I can't tell you why the arse comes into it. I really can't. But there you go. It did. Yeah. Science Maddie, useful or not useful? I'm going to say not only not useful, but incredibly dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. You're just going to get more infections. It's just going to kill you off, essentially, if you haven't already. If you're going to try any of these at home, and we don't recommend it, this is the one to very much not do. I love the way we don't recommend trying any of these at home, and we just tried our own.

Throwback Apothecary, Four Thieves Vinegar, which absolutely nearly killed us off. We are here to try these things so that you don't have to. So you don't have to. Very good. You're so welcome. don't have to. So you don't have to. Very good Maddie, well done. Okay, number one. And at number one, it's the spice, no, it's Doctor, heal thyself with shit. Yes, that's right. Okay, I thought it couldn't get any worse when the chicken's arse. I think the chicken's arse is quite, is possibly worse.

I mean, get that image in your head, Maddie, of the chicken's arse, of the shaved chicken's arse. No, no, no, no, no, no. No. You're saying... Just no. No. I'm not going there. You are saying that the number one cure, according to the order we have put these in, is human feces. Explain this to me, please. Well now, this was for the elite, because this... I'm going to say the elite, this was for the doctors.

Naturally, like this is only the best. This is why I said doctors heal thyself because doctors were the people who were contracting this at an alarming rate and you know obviously they were because they were being exposed to this even potentially with patients who didn't even know they had plague at the time because doctors are meeting so many people they were getting exposed to it more than most people might be. So this is one of the cures that the doctors themselves turned to. And we have an account of one Italian doctor called Gentile de Faligno. Beautiful pronunciation.

Thank you. We didn't have to practice that 14 times before I was able to say it. Who caught the plague himself in 1348. But he was already quite famous locally for heroically treating these plague patients of his own. And this is one of the remedies that he came up with mixing some herbs like carrots, celery and parsley with root of lily. Don't know what that is, but it's on my list. And human excrement. So it is human poo. I actually thought that it might've been animal poo,

but you guessed correctly it is human poo. And now it could be the patient's own. So listen, if you're having the runs and you have the plague, scoop up some of that. I'm going to stop describing that now because that my tummy is not feeling great again. And anyway, the ingredients were mixed together. Oh, Maddie, just finish that sentence there because I can't really finish it. So according to Anthony's notes in front of us, the ingredients were mixed together and much like the chicken's ass rubbed onto the bubo itself. So you're not doing well with that word today. Okay, so you're dying of plague in Italy and Gentile da Foligno turns up and he's also got plague,

but he's still heroically going around and helping you. He's probably spreading it to all his patients, but he turns up and he's like, here, let's look in the cupboard. What have you got? Carrot, celery, parsley. Brilliant. Fantastic. That's a really good start.

And you're like, great doctor, are you going to save me? And he's like, well, I have used my own shit on myself this morning, and now it is time for you to use yours. So here we go in the blender, let's mix it up. And then we're going to smear it all over you. So you're telling me that not only is it horrific to die of plague, but you're also covered in your own poo as well. That's essentially it. I mean, to give Gentile his dues, he believed that it would withdraw excess fluids from the sores, right? So then the swelling would go down. But I mean, I'm going to take over on the scientific frontier and say you're actually just making it way, way worse. Yeah, Gentile. No, stop.

Surely there would have been like any other kind of paste that you could have used. Like what you're trying to do is literally just to draw out excess fluid. Get a washcloth, get a towel, get some tissue. Okay. Well, can I just say that I feel, you started to feel sick, I feel thoroughly repulsed by humanity after this episode. No, thank you. Maddie, please send these lovely people away so that they might recover from the absolute horrendousness that we've just put them through over the last however many minutes. We can only apologise. Do write in with your complaints to afterdark at historyhit.com

and do not, I repeat, do not try these at home. Until next time, thanks for listening. You can catch all our other episodes, many of which do not feature human excrement, wherever you get your podcasts. Or chicken arses! No chicken arses were hurt in the making of this episode. They probably were. Don't promise things you can't say.