After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - Day in the Life of a Tudor Executioner

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Did they wear black hoods? Whose axe did they use? How did you get the job in the first place? Today Anthony Delaney takes Maddy Pelling inside the world of the Tudor Executioner.Research by Phoebe Joyce, edited by Tim Arstall, produced by Freddy Chick.You can now watch After Dark on Youtube! www.youtube.com/@afterdarkhistoryhitSign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds.After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal is a History Hit podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, we're your host's Anthony Delaney and Maddie Pelling. And if you would like After Dark myths, misdeeds and the paranormal, ad-free and get early access, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries with top history presenters and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. He lurked in the margins. strangely invisible given his profession. No one was watching him as he woke somewhere in London before the dawn and made his way through the frosty streets to the tower.

No one cared as he nodded at acquaintances and received his orders. He was alone when he and his axe were reunited and as he sharpened its edges. Even as he took his place on the scaffold, He was unremarked by the chroniclers that were present. It was only as he raised that glinting axe up into the sky that suddenly, for an instant, he appeared in full colour. All eyes riveted on him,

and the blade of Tudor justice held in his hand. Tudor history is full of stories of execution, But one figure always gets forgotten, the man who swings, the axe, who were the Tudor executioners? How did you become one? And what did they do on Execution Day? This is a day in the life of a Tudor executioner. Welcome to After Dark. Executions were, in many ways, the grit and grist of the Tudor period, a constant threat and a constant possibility. The list of famous names murdered in this way is long. We've covered a lot of these histories on After Dark already.

We've done the final days of Ambellin, Lady Jane Grey, with Tracy. Borman, final days of Mary Queen of Scots with Jade Scott. Do you remember any of these, Anthony? They're ringing a bell? Yes. I've heard of all of those people, both living and debt. Congratulations. Well done. The dementia has not got you yet. We have also looked at the life of an executioner before, but not a Tudor one. And this was in your episode that we did on Albert Pierpoint, which was a fantastic episode. What an interesting thing. That feels like a long time ago. That was quite an early one, I think. Yeah, yeah. Go back and find that in the back catalogue. Today, though, we're asking about the Tudor executioner, what we know about them and what they can teach us, Anthony.

And nobody knows about the Tudors. Nobody cares about the Tudors. Never heard of them. You've gone into a very niche part of the past. Now, no, judas are obviously very popular as a topic, but also execution. So when the two worlds collide, like, if you do think about Tudors, one of the first things that does come into your mind after the monarchs is some form of execution, punishment, that kind of thing. And so it does lend itself. But one of the reasons it lends itself so easily, to this joined-up thinking around execution and chuderness, is because there were so many reasons under, let's say, Henry the 8th specifically after the dissolution of the monasteries

that you could be executed for. Here is a list. Treason, heresy, rebellion, counterfeiting, murder, rape, robbery, bestiality, sodomy, witchcraft, which is rare than you think, but it was in there too. So there is a list that you can ream off. These are things that are being taken from ecclesiastical hands, at this point, into a more formalised legal system. And this is why the list kind of grows and grows and grows

and then over time it starts to diminish and all of these things don't come up. But certainly at this time, reign of Henry VIII, 1530s, 1540s, these are some of the things that you could expect to be dead for. Early sidebar, for immediately going off thrills. One of my ancestors in the 18th century, so not the true period, was hanged for counterfeiting coins. Oh, hanged, not just, I thought, I didn't realize they were hanged.

Yeah, they're fully hanged. But in this. period that we're talking about specifically, tell me about the types of ways you can be executed because I'm picturing the axe or maybe possibly the sword, but there are actually, there's quite a significant variety. Yeah, axe and sword are definitely part of it as well. They're a popular choice. In the beheading category, usually for people who are relatively high ranking. But you could also be hanged and you could be hanged for murder, theft, robbery or rape. Okay, so they're sort of like you're run-of-the-mill crimes. Not to downplay them, but they're not

threatening the realm necessarily. Yes. Then you could be hanged, drawn and quartered. No, thank you. For treason, of course. We kind of know that one. You could be burnt alive for heresy. This is where those witchcraft things come in. I mean, none of these are preferable. I think if you had to be, it's going to be beheading just for the swiftness. I think so. And then, of course, there's being boiled alive. Now, that's exceedingly rare, but that is gruesome. I can't decide what's worse, the burning or the being boiled alive. I think the boiling, often what you'll find is with executioners, which we're going to talk about what a day in the life of a Tudor Execution might look like, you'll find that they can be paid to strangle you

before you get to the burning part of it. And I'm sure the same could apply to the boiling, actually. But for me, it'd be the boiling, I think. That's not the one that I want to. Also, you're always too warm. Well, so too warm. It's just about body temperature, really, nothing else. Please don't make me any warmer. I'm uncomfortable. Okay, so those are the list of things. is the first recorded execution at the Tower of London because I'm thinking we're going to be discussing the Tower of London as a central location. Yes. You do think of it, don't you? Especially in terms of English heart of execution, Tower of London definitely comes up and then maybe later Newgate. So you're talking 1381 around the peasants revolt. Which we did an

episode on. Two episodes. I agree with that if we did. Correct. And it was actually the revolutionaries, the rebels themselves who carried out that execution. They were overseeing a slight element of lawlessness. And one of the things which I find interesting, keep this in mind as we go through some of these details, but just as a contextual thing, I like the detail. I don't know why. The closer the weapon of death is to natural elements, the less honorable it was. So, for instance, if you're drowning by water, not an honorable death. If you're being burnt by fire, not an honorable death. But if you're being beheaded with a man-made blade, there's more honor in that. I just think that's really interesting. There's something like mythical and magical and magic

about that a little bit in terms of belief systems. That is really interesting. I've never stopped to consider that before. I suppose it's sort of that visceral, very grim way of dying by some kind of element. There's something not very sophisticated about it. Whereas if you're cut with a steel or iron blade, I suppose there is more sophistication. There's more kind of elevation of the form. It's almost an art form of death. But you know what it's also doing is it's.

It's either injecting or taking out suffering. Yes. Or, well, physical suffering. There will be plenty of anguish, I'm sure, if you're heading to the scaffold to be beheaded. But the physical suffering should all go well, and we will encounter instances where it doesn't all go so well, should be relatively short-lived.

But we're not here to talk about these poor unfortunate souls who are being executed. We're here to talk about the executionists. So how does one go about applying for the job? Are you thinking of putting your name in the hat? Do you think that you could do a job like that in the past? No, I don't think I could. I don't think I could.

Even though you are quite comfortable with the idea of death, I don't think you could take someone's life. Very this. Death is not a problem, but taking somebody's... Well, and good for me that I'm not comfortable with killing people, I suppose. Well done, yes. So how did you become an executioner in the Tudor era? Well, it's funny because this person was seen as being a weapon of state.

This is somebody who was necessary for the state to function. But at the same time, they were also seen as being on the parisive. of that society or being an undesirable member of that statehood. By necessity, because they are killing people. Yes, there's two elements to this. One being that they are being extracted from often criminals, so from the criminal class. So often it'll be a case of going, right, you've been arrested, you've been arrested, you've been arrested, and we'll see an example of this later.

I'll give you the chance to be an executioner. Do you want to execute your mates? Exactly. And do you get to skip the death part? You are there for providing the function of state and you are being part of the legal system in your own way. So that's one of the reasons why you're on the periphery. But then also think of the unseemliness of having to be an executioner and the executioner turning up a court, for instance, unheard of it. It wouldn't happen in that sense. So you were doubly confined.

So you really do need to be comfortable occupying these outer limits of society. So we know that executioners were, I suppose, a necessary evil in society, but they were also, as you say, pushed the limits. In some places, they were actually banned from public spaces, weren't they? People who had served or were serving as executioners. Yeah, we have an example in Nuremberg that executions are not allowed to fraternise within bathhouses in taverns or in other public buildings. So this is during the 1570s. So, you know, we're not in England for children here. So you're not really a participant in society anymore. You fulfil a very specific function and that bars you from other leisurely enjoyable functions.

But one of the things I find this is so interesting. And we see this even into the 20th century. Despite the ways in which an executioner might be propagated, i.e. I'm taking you from the criminal class. It was also potentially an inherited position. So it would pass from father to son. And I think there's something really interesting about that going, listen, it's our family's legacy to be on the margins of society. Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Yeah, like grave diggers. So there aren't that many motivations necessarily for doing this job. You can make money doing it. And of course, often the families or the close person, personal friends of the person who's died will pay you a feed to access their body and take it away for burial after you've killed them. So there is that. You can make money and it may be that you've escaped the scaffold yourself and in order to become an executioner. So I can understand why people end up in the role, but it's not simply a case of turning up on an appointed day, taking someone's life in a very choreographed, controlled environment and then going home again. There are other responsibilities on there. It's a big part of it, that choreography that you're talking about. But Tudor England is very much a gig economy in that sense, in that you're going to be doing other things. You know, there's going to be many channels of income coming in.

So if you are being put in this position, then you also might be asked to operate torture devices during questioning, for instance. Because, again, think of how lowly that is as an activity. You might be asked to stretch. And how distasteful, right? Exactly. Yeah. And it fits into that same vener. macular, right, of going, oh, we don't have to, don't bring this into polite society, exactly, somebody needs to do it, but we don't need to see it. Yeah, we could be stretching people on the rack. There was the scavenger's daughter, which was forcing people into really tight spaces. These people are volunteering to be put into those positions. You mentioned grave digging. There was often an overlap between grave digging and an executioner. Especially if nobody came forward to claim the body as the execution. Yes, yeah, it's going to have to get rid of the body. Absolutely.

they could potentially be involved in ear cutting, which was another type of punishment. So again... What would that be for? Different things, but you could have your ear cut for sedition, so talking about... Oh, okay. So visual permanent damage to the body, but nothing that's going to stop you from operating heavy machinery. So maybe criticising the kick. Well, I mean, that also goes into treason, but like you could talk about criticizing the church, for instance.

Okay. So it's definitely something that, as you say, as a visual public reminder, you're walking. through your town or village, your ear is clipped. People know what's going on and this is a warning sign to them. But this is also potentially the executioner that is doing that. But to bear in mind, again, we're talking about the executioner operating within a legal system. The executioner doesn't decide that these punishments need to be enacted. He just enacts them. He's just doing the job. Yeah. It's a judge. It's a very well-respected, respectful person in that society who's handing that down, but God forbid, he might get his hands dirty, so we're giving it to the

executioner to do. Talk to me about money. How much are they getting paid? It's interesting because despite all of this, I'm not selling it, really. I'm hardly here going, you should already want to be an executioner because it doesn't sound like a great career choice. But you could actually make money. And that was one of the appeals for fathers to pass the trade, if you will, onto their sons. And it was a trade, right? Like it required skill, especially hanging. For the good ones. Yeah. For the ones who are really, really good at it, then yes, there was definitely skill-building. And we're going to talk about people who are not so good. We are, as it happens.

But you are paid in that sense per execution. Now, executions are relatively formal. They're relatively rare, actually. You've got to hope that you live in an area where there's a judge or several judges who are particularly mean-spirited. You want to hope that you're in London, at least.

Yeah. Because that's going to, that's the good starting point. You want to hope that there's some kind of a link to you and the Tower of London that you can get in there because that's a busy point of execution. But it also highlights the need, as we've been talking about, for other employment. But it also then talks about how there are other things that are part of this process,

and you've already alluded to this, actually, that can gain you money. I will say, just in terms of that outside of London thing, London, you are paid per execution, but outside of London, it's a civic role, so you are actually getting baseline rate. Okay. That will keep you in comfort or means.

for a while. But you can also, to supplement that, whether you're in London or not, you can also sell the clothes of the dead. That's, clothes are, we know this, we've said it a million times in this podcast. Clothes are an expensive commodity. Anything else that might be found on the body. Jewelry. Jewelry, exactly. And they will all have known this going in to be executed. So they will already probably have rid themselves of a great part of the really valuable stuff. I'm thinking about in any cinematic depiction of Ambelin's death where she takes off a famous bee necklace. That's always included, isn't it? And good transition there because the other thing is those being executed if they had the means, they would pay the executioner to try and ensure that their dispatch was relatively humane.

Yeah, okay. Oh, wow. So if you couldn't pay, you might expect a bit of a botched job. Yeah, or at least you would endure the fear of potentially having a botched job. So there are other ways to ensure that you're not having a messy death or a clean death or a dramatic death. And sometimes that involves, as I've already alluded to, strangling. before a certain burning or whatever it might be. There is a real opportunity here for additional income, and that translates itself later in the 18th century into the ordinaries in Newgate Prison who are hearing these confessions, and we're skipping ahead now 300 years,

but it just shows financial commodity that can be made around the business of death where you're selling these stories. It's another way to get that money. Everybody takes advantage at every stage of this journey. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so we're an execution. in Tudor London. Let's say that we work at the Tower of London, or we're headed there today. Talk

me through a day in the life. What are you having for breakfast? A person's life, actually, the life force of another human being, apparently. No, so it's interesting because executions tend to happen at the Tower of London. Yeah, let's say there specifically. That's what it says in my notes. Oh, good, okay. She's not just going with it. She's been instructed. It's happening early morning and actually it does fit in with what we've been said like this misty you know atmospheric thing i could not wait all day to die oh my god i'm sure i've stayed up the night before freaking out but there is something about that going is it slightly merciful to get rid of people dispatch people early in the day but also to limit maybe the amount of people that are flocking

to these places so that it'll be done before people are going to rebel or try and steal the body because this is happening last. And they can't have been in the tavern all day before they couldn't see this spectacle. Again, this changes by the time we get to the 18th century, like bear that in mind, it does become more raucous. But for now, we're going early in the morning when we're in the Tower of London. The executioner would probably be living within walking distance in the 16th, 17th century of the tower. Well, you don't want to be late because the tube was delayed. No, no, and listen, tubes are a nightmare, even in the 16th century.

Especially then. But we know, and I love this detail. We know that there is a family of executioner, is a father and. and son who are both simultaneously in the trade and they're living on Royal Mint Street, which is very near the Tower of London. Isn't that, for some reason I found that really tantalising where it's like, there's their house.

They know, you pass by that house knowing what they do. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't want to be the postman for it having to put stuff through the letterbox. You're up early morning, you're probably up before light, you're making your way to the tower for dawn-ish. The mist is starting to rise off the grass in the Tower of London, exactly. Then you're going to meet with the constable of the Tower,

so the person in charge of the tower overall or with the lieutenant of the tower. So you're meeting with either or both of those, just to know what's going happen. You are not meeting with the condemned themselves, whereas in the 20th century, when we talked about Pierpoint, he was weighing people to know that the right drop. He was, I mean, he had a very intimate relationship with the people that he killed, actually. It was a very personal thing for him, which was in and of itself quite frightening. And he would look at them and estimate, remember, it was quite secret. He used to guess people's weights.

Exactly. The prisoner wouldn't know. that they were being looked at necessarily at that moment in time but... Oh my God, yeah, he used to observe them for a long time first. And he was very good at knowing what their weight would be and therefore managing the drop. None of that is happening in this time.

It's a little cruder than that, as you could well imagine. So it's about the ceremony of execution, not about the person being executed. Yeah, except if you are Ambelin, for instance, or if you are a big name, if you're a headline act. A headline act at the Tower of London. That's about to be killed.

then it does start to matter who you are because what they will do is if you are one of those big names they'll keep you within the walls of the tower to keep out the rabble and if not then you can be executed outside the wall either way a scaffold will be erected and again we're familiar with this with Ambelin

aren't we? We have this idea that the scaffold is going up within the tower walls in her case common prisoners as I say will be executed outside the tower walls but this was a bit of a surprise to me because in the entire history of the Tower of London. So we're talking here from 1078 thereabouts until, well, even up until today. Only 22 people have been executed inside. It's still low, though.

That's a surprisingly low amount. Wow. The last being in 1941. I did know this. Yes. Which is Joseph Jacobs, the German spy, and he was executed by firing squad inside the walls. So we should do an episode on him. That'd be really interesting. That'd be really good. Yes. We need to do a little bit more war stuff, actually, I think. I'm getting really, I know. Anthony's become a second-old war enthusiast. I don't know where that's come from.

Yeah. Well, Eric Larson's to blame. That's who you can blame. But yeah, that would be a really good one, actually. We imagine the tower is this place of death. But actually, in terms of executions, given the thousands of years over which it spans, it's not that many. It's not that many.

And we should say, as well, the Tower of London wasn't particularly notorious for torture as well in this period. We've spoken about torture happening in the Tudor era, but it's not like this was happening all the time at the Tower of London. So everything's a little bit more muted than I thought it would be. But take me to the moment of execution itself, though, because we've got the scaffold set up, which by the way, I think it's just such a fascinating literal construct, that temporary space and who gets to share that platform, the performance, you know, it's a stage, the performance that takes place on it, the terrifying walk up the steps for the prisoner. And even if there is, even if they're inside the, that, that,

walls, there is still an audience. Oh, yeah, of course. You know, there's still people gathered. And you'd be aware, like Amber Lynn was, and we are going to talk in more detail about, you know, of the windows, people watching. Is someone going to call for your reprieve at the last moment? And the other prisoners are aware that this is happening outside.

Are they waiting to be executed too? You know, like what that does psychologically? Yeah, this is such a kind of performative thing. And then the moment when the prisoner becomes a deceased body on that same space and it's suddenly soaked with blood. That transformation, I just find that's so fascinating. And the fact that the scaffold didn't always stand as a permanent thing, right? That it would be deconstructed and then built again afresh.

And it just, something so tangible and yet malleable about it. I just think it's the most fascinating object from history, really. Ghostly, when you describe it like that a bit, like it kind of like it appears and disappears with need. It's like this terrible moment of brutality and then it's gone. as quickly as it came. But talk to me about this moment of execution. If you're the executioner, what are you doing in the moments leading up to the death of that person? You're trying to get this done as quickly as you possibly can. Which I was surprised. Efficiency is a thing. Yeah. Again, you know, you and I always talk about this, but like coming from an 18th century point of view,

quickness is not the drive of the day. Especially when showmanship and spectacle is so involved. Yeah. Whereas with this, they want to take you from your cell to having your head off, say, in 10, 20 minutes. The whole thing done in that kind of a time. I'd appreciate that. Like, that's the only way to do it, isn't it? It's almost like, go quickly so they can't almost process what is happening here. The axe, I thought, this is so interesting.

The axe is not the executioners. It's provided by the state. Okay, that's fascinating. Or the sword, by the way. So it's a tool of the state. And it's ceremonial. Like the sceptor and all of the royal. It's literally what I was thinking.

Yeah, who's on the throne. It's this giving over. of this tool. And I suppose as well, it sort of takes some of the responsibility from you. You're not bringing your own weapon to do this. It's not a murder out on the street. Yeah. That it's state endorsed and this ceremonial object is part of that. Yeah. And it also kind of alleviates your responsibility to a certain extent. Yeah, ceremonial. So you would arrive at your platform that has been constructed. You will see a block and an axe or a sword in front of you. That's where you're going to be required to kneel and place your neck on that. During this time, again, keep things

moving quickly so the prisoner doesn't have much time. And are you engaging with the prisoner to a certain extent, right? So you might speak to them now. Well, they're probably having last rights now. They're actually engaging with a lot of other people around before they're engaged. Exactly. Or they're ladies in waiting if you're amboled in or whoever it might be. There are people within proximity that are dealing with the soon-to-be-deceased first. Now, something that I always find so fascinating because it's so intimate and it's quite tender in a way is, As the executioner, am I right in thinking you might be responsible for tying up or pulling out of the way, the prisoner's hair? And sometimes they would try to deny the executioner that thing of politeness and they would have it done already or they'd have the hair cut, women particularly obviously.

But not just because in this time beard, you know, I think about the French Revolution when they became a fashion to have that kind of pixie cut, which was copying the women, the aristocratic women who were going to the guillotine. And you see that in like depictions of Mariantoinette in that period. But if they weren't done or if they weren't cut or if they weren't already all, up the hair, I mean, then yes, the executioner would have to pin up your hair or whatever it is. I suppose as well, in the Tudor period, again, particularly for women, hair is so important and meaningful. How you present yourself to the world is tied into your hair, what you're putting on your head, how your hair is dressed, whether it's down, whether it's up. And to have this executioner as someone from the periphery of society and considered quite lowly to touch your

hair, especially if you're someone like Amberlin going to the scaffold. A literal queen. A literal queen. You do not want that person touching your hair. It's monstrous. It's power for you to keep that away from them. Exactly, exactly that. It's still taking ownership over the end of your life if you're able to keep it away. And dignity, keeping your dignity. Absolutely. You talk about interaction. Okay, so we may have the hair interaction between the executioner and the condemned. If not, what you will have is a formalized asking for forgiveness from the executioner to the condemned. So the executioner will say, will, I have to take your life. Can you forgive me for? They will be expected to accept, by the way. So it's

interesting this exchange that is being expected from people who are on scaffold. I wonder how often people didn't give their forgiveness, didn't give their permission. I wonder if they blamed the executioner. It often feels to me like people really don't blame the executioner. They understand that it's the state that's doing this rather than the individual. Which speaks so much to the Tudor mindset, right? Because you would think getting up on the scaffold, your body would just be flooded with fight or flight and you would want to run away from this person who is going to do you harm. But actually the power of the context in which this is happening and that belief in that moment of, again, the choreography of it or the performance of it all, that

it's a state ceremony. Maybe that's slightly overrath. I'm not saying everyone walked to their death very calm. Delisive. Yeah. This is just what happened. Of course you'd be, you know, shaking people would wet themselves, all of that. But it's so interesting because you you'd think, faced with the person who's going to take your life in that moment, they'd be the person you need to escape and that you feel visceral animosity towards. But that's not necessarily, at least in terms of the performance of this, that's not what's happening. Let's go through those motions. So we've done the, they're on the scaffold, they've tied the hair back, they've received

the last rights, the executioner has asked for forgiveness, then the action itself, which is probably the quickest of all that, well, all going well as one of the quickest parts of the whole thing, then we are lifting the head up, behold the head of a traitor. And that's the kind of, again, ceremonial thing. Like it's performance for whoever is there, like whether it be a big or a small crowd. And it's that providing evidence, isn't it? This is proof of this state endorsed, state-ordered execution has taken place. Here is the evidence for everyone present, see you are all witnesses to it.

And it's that, I suppose there's a kind of shift there on pre-death, the relationship on the scaffold is between the executioner and the prisoner. and post-death, it's between the executioner and the witnesses. Yeah, absolutely. That happened in the case of Mary Queen of Scots, for instance, with Behold the head of a traitor, which says an awful lot about what Elizabeth needs from that, despite the fact of what she will deny or feign that she didn't know or did know, whatever.

But that's part of that ceremony, that state-sanctioned ceremony, and who else is sanctioning those ceremonies but the queen or the king, or in this case it happens to be the queen. But you talked about the relationships with, the audience thereafter the condemned is executed. Part of that could be manipulating or controlling the crowd in order that they don't swipe the clothing. Again, Mary Queen of Scots is a good example. So it's going, do not let them take her clothing so that they become relics, saintly relics. So it's giving access to bodies. And controlling the narrative.

Yeah, absolutely. Because it's pointless if they can't control the narrative. That's the whole point of executing somebody, particularly in Mary Queen of Scott's case, control that. narrative. And then it becomes about working with the families potentially of the condemned to go bury the body as quickly as possible or to, as I say, take the, in a different case that's not Mary Queen of Scots, to give the family the clothing before other people take the clothing or to sell the clothing back to the family. It was more realistic. And then assisting in the swift burial or depending on who it is, remove the head, in Tudor time specifically, remove the head to be displayed. on London Bridge. So again, display, ceremony, control, and proof. And proof. So it's...

And warning. This is a really, really pivotal role that can so easily be overlooked in a kind of a comic book type of way. But this is state mechanism. And it's somebody from the working classes, marginalised groups who are oiling these wheels in order to show how the state functions. And doing the dirty work off the state. Okay, so tell me this. The executioners I have in my mind are wearing all black with a sort of balaclava hood situation, is this accurate? No. No, they're just wearing their normal clothes. My PhD has taken off. No, they're literally just wearing their normal clothes and it says something about like, because that's costume. So you could imagine that they would be in something like that. But actually, they just blend from normal society into this role and

back into normal society because they're just in their clothes. And I suppose I think about that, the wardrobe that we imagine is that they're anonymising themselves. But actually, you know, you've said that people knew like the address of working executioners at the time that they were already marginalised. So they didn't need to hide in that way. Yeah, I think people knew who executioners were. It wasn't anonymous. You know, so there definitely

is. And then that becomes more problematic when things go wrong, right? Oh, good segue. If it's a prominent person such as, you may have heard of this one before. It's certainly one that we come across every now and again and that is Margaret Pole in 1541.

Yeah, this one doesn't go particularly well. Tell me Who is she? Just give me the brief overview. Well, she's born in 1473. She is executed at the age of 67. It's Henry the 8th. I mean, that's so petty, Henry. Like, this is the Tudor period. She's close to death.

Leave her alone. We're not entirely even sure that the reasons he gives for executing her are not fabricated, quarterly fabrications. So it is, you know, she's really well connected. She's the niece of Edward VIII, Richard III. She's a cousin to the princes in the tower. And she's even related to Henry, the 8th himself. And she has a strong claim to the throne. So she's a threat to his

power in that sense. But she has no interest in the throne. He's just being a paranoid Mary, as per bloody usual. And so he goes for her and he, you know, by the 1540s, he's extremely paranoid as we know. And he charges her. He makes sure that she is executed. There is no trial. Classic Henry the 8th. It starts at 7 a.m. then, so she's at the tower. She's in Tar Green, in the presence of the Lord Mayor of London, and about 150 others. I mean, that's a significant crowd within... Yeah, but this is one of the things, right? Even though we're not outside the walls, they're still a crowd, like we were saying.

And this is a not insignificant person being executed. Exactly. So that's going to draw even more, right? So it was a case that the executioner that was supposed to be doing the job wasn't available because he was up in the north of England doing more executing up there. And so they just got... I hate as a freelancer when you get double-booked for things. Do you not put a Depp in?

Well, there was a dep, but not an officially assigned one. And he was basically described as a youth. Oh, dear. And so this is what Eustace Chepuy says. He says, who is the imperial ambassador to England. And Eustace Chepuy has left was with a lot of Tudor documentation. And he says, since the ordinary executioner of justice was absent doing his work in the North. Oh, there you go.

That's where I read that. A wretched and blundering youth blundering was chosen. You literally hacked her head and shoulders to pieces in the most pitiful manner. Oh, Margaret. Oh, my God. So there you go. You hear things that she was refusing to put her neck on this, so she had to be forced down, or there was a chase around the executioner's block.

That didn't happen. That's just kind of a fable that comes up afterwards. But clearly she resisted the thing that was coming to her. Yeah, in some capacity. I'm not blaming Margaret. No, no, no, no, no. So, you know, that is one of those tower. executions that went down in infamy.

We, you know, definitely as historians, we know this. And I mean, that is embarrassing for Henry the 8th as well, right, because executioners are there to perform state justice. That's so true. It's ceremonial. It's meant to be dignified on both sides. Even though it's a brutal, brutal thing, it's meant to be done with precision. Yeah.

There are rules. Yeah, it doesn't reflect well on the state and on Henry. If it's chaos. Yeah. Cricy. Okay. That's intense. I guess we can't talk.

about executions in this period without talking about Anne Bloody Berlin. Oh, God. Famously, she's executed with a sword and a special sword slash swordsman is brought in.

Tell me more about this. Yeah, so this is the famous guy from Calais. We don't know his name. And actually, when we were doing, we were talking about doing this research, I was like, surely his name is available to us, no.

But no, it's not. I didn't, I just assumed it was there. Which again tells you so much about the status of executioners. Well, and especially one that they're importing from France. You know what I mean? They might know the one that's living on Royal Mint Lane,

but they're not going to know the one that's coming from Calais. Why is he imported from France? Because presumably there are lots of executions in England who could do this for the queen. Yeah, and I mean, there's loads of theories, isn't there, about going, oh, well, she was a queen, so she deserved a special executioner. So he came. But we don't actually know. But one of the things that's so easy to forget when it comes to this,

and again, this is a fact that you may or may not know, but that Henry had him in England before the execution. So it was like, he's queuing this up to. Not exactly a fair trial for Anne then. Oh, no, I mean, this was happening, wasn't it? And that's just it. Some of the details around her executioner are interesting. So there is, apparently the neck doesn't touch the block in this case.

She is whispering her prayers. The executioner is hidden the sword from her so she doesn't have to look on the instrument of death. Again, because she's a queen right. Like, it's a lot of, it's a more dignified, calm way to go. Still don't fancy it. No. And that she is kneeling upright at the time of decapitation. and that at that time, because she's whispering her prayers,

after decapitation, her lips are still moving for, you know, nanoseconds or whatever, in prayer. Listen, it's one of those things. I mean, they probably would have, right? But says me as if I'm that kind of doctor. But, you know, it certainly adds to the lore of Anne's demise, if nothing else. And also to the law of the sword itself, right? Because a lot of these swords were kind of mythologized in certain ways. Like, I know lots of them had, like, motos engraved on them and stuff.

they did and another thing which is fascinating is the executioners again have another way to make money would sometimes clip part of their swords and they would sell parts of that clipping to people going this is the sword that executed whoever you don't want an executioner who's clipped so much of a sword that there's not enough to actually do the job i did think that myself was like how far down are you going because they often weren't pointed swords so there's no need for the point there's no need for the point they'll just be flat on top yeah so they need to be sharper the sides and that is the other way around to, I have a sword in my house, with Matt being in the army. When you go to Santa, you have to buy your own sword, which costs a lot of money.

It's a bit ridiculous. Does it actually mean? Yeah, but they're cavalry swords. So they have a sharp point for stabbing on horse. Matt, it's not on the cavalry. He's never been on a horse before. He would be useless in this scenario. But it's completely blunt down the edge.

Is it sharp enough that, like, it could do, is it real or is it like costume sword now? No, it's like ceremonial now. Like, you could probably, I don't know, pierce a life of bread with it or something like that. Right, but it's not going to be doing too much damage. You're not going to be like killing a burglar with it. Oh, God. But again, famously, as we know with Ambulin, the disarray that's around her death, there is no coffin for her body to be placed in, so it's placed in an arrow chest.

That is always amazing to me. It's wild. She's then put in an unmark grave in the chapel of St. Peter and Vinkula. So we know this about her death. It's possibly the most famous execution in English history, is it? I'm probably forgetting something even more obvious. I don't say Charles I first, maybe more so, ever heard of him. I wonder, though, I mean, for me, yes, I agree with you, but actually I wonder if in the popular imagination, for me it would be that as well.

Maybe Lady Jane Grey, which we haven't spoken about, potentially in terms of like the tragedy element of that, the sort of poeticness of a young woman going to her death a little bit like Anne. Side note, our lovely researcher, Phoebe Joyce, was married in the chapel at the Tower of London where she works. That's kind of amazing. It is. It is. married where Ambulin was buried. Yeah, pretty incredible proximity to history. Yeah, who was the last.

executed at the Tower of London. It was Robert Devereaux, second earl of Essex. This is during Elizabeth the first reign. That's a great name, Devereaux. Devereaux, yeah. I know somebody called Devereaux. It must be a Norman name. But it is one of Elizabeth's former favourites who led the failed Essex Rebellion, of course, in 1601. And this is also why it's the last Tudor Rebellion because we're going to the end of the Tudor era. So there's not much more time left to go. You can hear more about the whole dark side of Elizabeth I first and there are plenty in our episode with Tracy Borman so you can go back through the other episodes and listen to that. But he was the last Tudor executed during this time period. And we do know who the executioner was. We do have a

name for this one. We have a name and it's rare that we have these names, although we've had a couple I suppose. But Thomas Derek was the man who executed Robert Devereaux. And one of the reasons that we know about him is because Derek was created an executioner by whom? Not Devereux. Devereux. Devereaux himself. Yes. He was one of those people that we've talked about where he was a criminal. He was arrested with 23 other people. And he was offered the chance to execute the other 23. And if he did, he would live. And so Derek obviously jumped at this opportunity. And he hanged them on the ship's spars at the time. So like we didn't even, we're not coming home. We're not going to the Tower of London. We're enacting justice there and then. And he went on to become a Tyburn hangman. And it's him that's credited with making. hanging is more efficient. So he is one of these people who thrives in these roles.

And it becomes, to be Derek becomes a synonym for being hanged. Yeah. So he really rises to the old occasion. And he's, I mean, he's a pretty grim individual. The crime that he's guilty of during the Battle of Cadiz, which is when he is, with the others who's executed, he's guilty of rape.

With the 20-odd others. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, they're all guilty of rape. They're all guilty of rape. Lovely. And to then turn on his fellow soldiers in that way. It's pretty extraordinary, pretty grim.

No wonder he excelled, I suppose, with this kind of a grim thing. So to be Derek became a saying. Wow. So he was so good at it. That was it. Do you want to know when the final beheading happened at the Tower of London?

Beheading now this is not execution. Okay, the final beheading. Because we know the final execution is in the 1940s. 1941, yeah. Final beheading. It's got to be the 18th century. It is the 18th century. It's on the 9th of April 1747.

It's Jacobite. Yes, it is Jacobite. Yes, yes, yes. So it's Simon Fraser, the 11th Lord Love it, executed for his part in the Jacobite Rising, and he was 80 years old. They love killing old people. Wow.

I know what he is, nonetheless. And that block is still on display at the Tower of London today. That's grim, isn't it? That is fascinating. Recently, I was talking to someone about the guillotine blade that is one of three

that was in use during the French Revolution and is currently on display at the V&A as part of their Mariantoin exhibition. I need to go. Have you mean to that? I've not been yet, no, but the exhibition catalogue is very good, by the way. But there's something so brutally visceral about that kind of object. Yeah, I agree, totally.

It makes history feel proximate, but also just incredibly dark and human and scary. And what those instruments and objects take on when they are in that proximate location to death, Like the literal division between life and death is in that material culture. Yeah. That's bizarre. And not just life and death, but life and death of people who are the movers and shakers of history. You know, we're talking about Tudor executions in this episode. But executions and their different time periods is also, we should look at that as well, like how they change over the centuries and how execution change.

We should look at the whole history of execution over an episode or two, I think. Because they really are different. By the time we get into the 20th century, it's crazy. to even say that we and you know in certain places today there is still the death penalty so it is quite a macabre thing especially when it's state sanctioned like the state sanctioning of taking lives is an interesting it's a difficult and interesting history isn't it and as we said at the beginning you can go back and hear episodes about some of the executions we've covered we've done the final days of mary queen of scots the final days of amblin and we did that episode on albert peerpoint the 20th century

executioner. I've really enjoyed this. Thank you very much for this history. Thank you for being here. Thank you for partaking in this history. If you want to hear more about executions in the past, then you can get in touch with us at after dark at history hit.com. And don't forget to leave us a five-star review wherever you get it for us.