After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - Do Mermaids Exist? Historical Sightings & Myths

Episode Date: February 25, 2024

Did you know Benjamin Franklin began his career reporting mermaid sightings? Or that there's a mermaid on every cup of Starbucks coffee?Join us as we search the oceans for history's greatest mermaid stories. Anthony tells Maddy this story with special help from children from year 5 of Harris Primary Academy Coleraine Park.Written by Anthony Delaney. Edited by Tom Delargy and produced by Freddy Chick. Senior Producer is Charlotte Long.Enjoy unlimited access to award-winning original documentaries that are released weekly and AD-FREE podcasts. Get a subscription for £1 per month for 3 months with code AFTERDARK sign up at https://historyhit/subscription/ You can take part in our listener survey here.

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The podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time. Submit me out of the dark, disappear, bin Laden. You'll meet the people who live life undercover. What do they know? What are their skills? And what would you do in their position? Vengeance felt good. Seeing these people pay for what they'd done felt righteous.

True Spies from Spyscape Studios. Wherever you get your podcasts. In 1736, Mr. Benjamin Franklin was 30 years old and wholly unaware of his revolutionary destiny. Though not yet a politician, Franklin was still civic-minded and had formed the Union Fire Company in the same year, one of the first volunteer firefighting companies in America. He also supplemented his various strands of income with his words.

And in 1736, we find him having just submitted a description of a most remarkable discovery to the Pennsylvania Gazette, which was published on the 6th of May. It was with the utmost conviction that Franklin informed his reader about the discovery of a sea monster in the Atlantic Ocean, just off the crystalline pink sands of Bermuda, a small island between the old world and the new, as the colonists saw it, and a stronghold of British naval might in the 18th century. Franklin reported that the upper part of this sea creature was in the shape and about

the bigness of a boy of 12 years old, with long black hair. The lower part resembled a fish. old with long black hair. The lower part resembled a fish. The men who had encountered this strange creature managed to capture it and examine it but, according to Franklin, owing to its human likeness they compassionately agreed to let the creature go. A dubious claim considering the colonisers had no such compassion for actual human beings who they had enslaved and forcefully transported from their native Africa. But I digress. If the British naval forces were in the midst of conquering the seas, Franklin hinted, this discovery was a reminder that the oceans of the world were ultimately unknowable, and that in this age of empire, their mysterious depths could never truly be conquered. Hello and welcome to After Dark. I'm Maddie.

And I'm Anthony. And... Why did I sing that? I don't know. I'm Anthony. Sorry though. It's a musical episode today, who knew? Beautiful. Today we are taking to the high seas and we're talking about mermaids what he asked is their history and most pressingly did Anthony get Eric and Ariel dolls for Christmas when he was seven years old yes I did and actually oh my god I love them so much

and I even put them in my I robbed my sister's doll pram and I put them to bed each night in my sister's doll pram. But that isn't the only mermaid connection. My granny, Lizzie, Lizzie, RIP Lizzie. She made me, knowing my obsession with mermaids, she made me a mermaid's tail. So I actually had a mermaid's tail that I was able to wear in. What was it made of? It wasn't very appropriate material for a mermaid's tail. I think it was just cotton.

So what she did was she made me a cotton one. She stuffed the fins at the end. It was blue. Well, it was a bluey green turquoise, if you will. And she stuffed the fins at the end with cotton wool, I think. And then she drew on with black marker the fins, you know, like I was delighted. I used to sit in it and just wag my tail. That sounds amazing. There's nothing better than things made by your grandma. That's so lovely. So we're talking about mermaids made by grandmothers and mythological. When we were talking about doing this episode and talking about mermaids, initially I thought it's quite an old topic. It's not, the mermaid isn't really someone who crops up or resurfaces

in modern culture necessarily. But actually, I was thinking about the fact that even on social media, on TikTok now, you get stories, you get videos of people supposedly shooting footage out in the North Sea, claiming that they are seeing mermaids jumping through the waves. And I think, actually, once you start to look for the mermaid, she does appear in really unexpected places. Yeah, I spent way too much of my time on TikTok. And I have seen these videos come up, and I've reposted some of them. And it's because they are myth making in a really modern sense. It usually comes from a high up advantage point on the ship where somebody has a smartphone, they're filming this really rough sea. I'd be vomiting my face

off probably, but they're filming. And you can see these things breaking the surface of the water. You're not quite sure what they are. Have they been added in? The answer is probably yes, they have. But it's myth-making. It's part of this very long history, which we are going to explore in this episode, of mermaid myth. But that myth and mystery coming from the vastness of the oceans. And that is something that stays with us, that breaks across timelines, across centuries. And it's just so interesting that it's right there on TikTok. You can't scroll by without seeing one of these dramatic waves breaking and something just lurking under the waves before we

dive in properly see why i did that okay jokes but um can we have a bit of context because mermaids to me we've referenced the disney film, they are the thing of fictions, they are mythological creatures. Do they have a history that we can trace? They do. And what's fascinating about the history of mermaids and related creatures is that it gives you a global history, particularly from the 17th century onwards, when some of these stories start travelling all across the world. And it really leans into the globalisation that you see in the early modern world and then into the 18th century as well. So what we will find is that stories of mermaid and mermaid-like creatures are travelling the globe, but they also have very specific origins. And it's interesting to see what

those various histories, and we'll examine some of them throughout this episode, it's interesting to see how they overlap and how they're very different. But the very first mermaid that we know that has been recorded originates in Syria from about 1000 BCE. And it was linked to the idea that the goddess Atargetus, she dove into the sea apparently, to take the form of a fish because that was something that she could do. However, when she got into the sea, the sea gods were having none of it. They were like, no, you are too beautiful. We can't have you turning into a fish. So only the bottom half of you can turn into a fish. So she kept the upper half of her body as human. And then the lower half, as we traditionally know, became a fish. And we see figures of this person depicted in ancient temples on coins.

There are statues of her. So we're talking a very, very ancient history here. So straight away in this early depiction, we've got the mermaid as being traditionally female and that it's linked to ideas of female beauty standards. It's linked to ideas of female beauty standards and maybe taking away a little bit of power of compromising in terms of female appearance in some way that in the story, she's too beautiful to be in the sea. So something is taken from her. Interestingly as well, and I suppose this is going to come up again and again, this idea of the bottom half being a fish and thinking about what's being taken away there. There's something about maybe reproductive rights. There's something about biological sex of a person being erased or covered up in some way. Yes, you're spot on. There is a really strong link here between biological sex, gender expression. Although, as we'll see as we go through this, the mer-person form is not solely assigned

to women, but certainly the origins are. And it links to ideas of agency and female power and controlling female power. But then the myth turns that on its head and gives the power back to the mermaid. But we'll discover all of this as we go. So if we say that these beginnings, the history is somewhere around Syria, the very beginnings of this history is somewhere around Syria in 1000 BCE. The earliest records that we have in England are found in a Norman chapel in Durham Castle, apparently, which was built around 1078. But we know that the Celts also had folk tales of mermaids. You know, these are ancient things and they are embedded in multiple different cultures in multiple different ways. I'm assuming in broad general terms that mermaid stories

develop in coastal places and that what links these places and these stories is the ocean, the routes by which people are traveling, sharing their stories. And that maybe you could draw a map of the world's mermaids that would actually show you all kinds of historic trade routes. And when cultures and stories are being swapped as well as goods for sale. stories are being swapped as well as goods for sale. Funnily enough, I think every single one of the stories we're going to hear today, including that first one that we heard with Benjamin Franklin, all take place in the Atlantic Ocean. That is not to say there are not other mermaid-like tales in other seas and oceans around the world,

but the Atlantic Ocean, just with you talking about international trade in this 18th century, is a key hotspot for that. That is really interesting. So let's go back to that opening story. It's set in 1736. We have the famous founding father, Benjamin Franklin. Can you give us some context of what's happening in the world that Franklin lives in? And why is he in an age of supposed reason and enlightenment coming up with stories of mermaids. I think that's really interesting. And we should discuss that actually. But in terms of 1736, or the years around 1736, the American colonies are still part of the British Empire at this time.

So this is a British Empire history as opposed to purely an American history. We're 40 years or so away from the American Revolution at this particular point. George II is on the throne, which means George II is also the king of the Americas at this point, or the New World, as they phrased it. Linking to what you had just said about the Age of Enlightenment, in the year before, 1735, there was a Witchcraft Act passed. Now, you might think to yourself, right, okay, we're witch hunting again, it's called the Witchcraft Act. But no, this was to stop witchcraft accusations.

They were seen as now a legal waste of time. This was to put an end to allegations of witchcraft making such claims illegal. So that's 1735. So that says something about these kind of stories coming across in newspapers by, you know, intelligent people such as Benjamin Franklin. It gives us a little bit of an interesting backdrop as to what's going on in the world at this time as well. And it tells us so much about the intellectual position of Britons and how they want to show themselves on a world stage. It's so interesting that you bring up the 1735 Witchcraft Acts. I've actually been thinking about this a lot for my second book, which is really kind of looking at this push and pull between the idea of enlightenment, and we can talk about what

that means or doesn't mean, and this supposed rejection of superstition of the old ways. And it's really in my mind at the moment. And I hadn't really thought of mermaids as fitting into this conversation necessarily. So this is really exciting. Antony, how do you sort of understand enlightenment in the 18th century? What is your view of it? Because I think it's fair to say today, in terms of scholarship around the 18th century, it's a very contested term. What do you think it is? Oh, a test, Maddy. I think let's go for the general understanding of what enlightenment means to most people, I would say. I think most's go for the general understanding of what enlightenment means to most people, I would say. I think most people have an interpretation of the enlightenment as

probably occurring in the 18th century. This idea of advancing thought and scientific, artistic, social, cultural advancements where we're seeing ourselves as more intelligent, more civilized, more tuned into the world around us. We're making discoveries, we're leaving some of the old ways behind and becoming more enlightened in our approach to how we interact with the world. Now, you're going to tell me, and rightly so, that it's far more complicated than that. But I think that is the general understanding of the Enlightenment, right? I would say so, yes. And this is an era, especially in Britain, in France, in Russia, in the British colonies in America as well, where there's a sort of performative element around this new state of learning and knowledge.

There's collecting becomes a huge thing. So collecting objects of different categories, we get the idea of taxonomies so putting things into categories essentially so things like minerals rocks ceramics all kinds of things from the natural world but also artistic things as well sculpture painting all of that and that if you can possess all of that stuff and display it you're showing that you appreciate art the world that you know about it and that you're in control of it yes and of course, that you know about it, and that you're in control of it. Yes, the control is important, isn't it? It absolutely is. And of course, this extends to human beings as well. So there's difficulty,

and we think about enlightenment and this idea of bringing civilization to Britain, to its colonies. But of course, what does civilization mean on the ground? In reality, in the 18th century, it means enslavement. And so I'm interested thinking about mermaids, that there's a sort of impulse to go out into the world, find all these curiosities, and explain what they are. And if you can find a specimen and put it in a glass jar, then you've conquered that idea and you own it. And I wonder if there's a sense with Benjamin Franklin and people like him of wanting to maybe find a creature like a mermaid to prove that it's real and to literally make it into a specimen, to put it into a category

of the natural world. It's interesting. I think for me, what it speaks to more so than just that, although of course that's a drive and people are paying, rich people obviously, are paying in the 18th century for expeditions to do exactly what you just described, for people to go and find proof of a mermaid that can be put in a case, that can be displayed, and that can prove that there's a dominance, that we are now dominating the seas. But it's that that I think is key, that idea of control and dominance again, where this mermaid, this folk tale is lasting for generations and centuries by the looks of it. And so there must be something in it, perhaps, they're thinking.

centuries by the looks of it. And so there must be something in it, perhaps, they're thinking. They are relatively new to the oceans at this point. Ocean travel, of course, is ancient, but on the scale that we see it in the 18th century and the global scale that we see it in the 18th century, this is new. So people from Britain, let's say, just as an example, are encountering new things on the sea and related to the sea on a daily basis. They are recording them in their journals. And these are things that we know exist because we have scientific proof, even if they don't exist now, that they did exist then. So this age of discovery is unparalleled in terms of the ocean and the seas. So I think there's something got to do with that. But I also think, and coming back to what you were saying about this glass case idea, there was a

thought at the time that a mermaid might say something to us about the origins of mankind, about the aquatic origins of mankind. There was this idea already that everything came from the ocean, so therefore we must have come from the ocean. And if we came from the ocean, is the mermaid a missing link? No. Well, no, absolutely no. No, i think that is a really interesting idea and this question of the origins of human beings takes on all kinds of racialized aspects in the 18th century and links into that kind of difficult idea of what enlightenment was that you know it can be explicitly racist in the 18th century and i wonder if we can kind of include ideas around mermaids and the origin of humans as part of that conversation that actually there's something

othered but they potentially represent to people looking for these answers and looking to categorize everything and order everything as a way of legitimizing their own hierarchies that they're placing on the world. That if mermaids are kind of almost a missing link, that they are the answer to this question of why people are different and a way of strengthening those hierarchies, maybe. and a way of strengthening those hierarchies, maybe? Yeah, and of course, the 18th century people being the people that discover this, that they are in a position because they are so enlightened that they can crack this code. They have all the tools, the intellect, the scientific knowledge that can advance our understanding of the origins of humankind.

But of course, as you rightly pointed out, that isn't the origins of humankind at all, but they were pushing the boundaries of what they knew at that particular point. One thing that I will say about the 18th century and this culture of so-called discovery, that at home in Britain, there is some hesitation and sicism around this, actually. And one thing that we see a lot of at the end of the 18th century, so a little bit later after Franklin's writing about his mermaid in the papers in America, you do start to see almost joke versions

of these kinds of discoveries coming in and people at local fairs and things, travelling fairs around Britain saying, oh, come and see the mermaid in the little water tank and draw back the curtain. And it's just- It's me. It's me and the tail that my granny made.

It's you and Granny Lizzie's tail. Yeah, exactly. And there's that kind of slight mockery of this idea of this taxonomic order of everything. And that actually some things that are being brought into this conversation are ridiculous, are fanciful, don't really exist. So there's a kind of push and pull intellectually, almost a culture war between the people who are going out and writing this stuff, performing this enlightenment. And there are people who are going out and writing this stuff, performing this enlightenment. And there are people who are sceptical and who are laughing at it, essentially. With that in mind, do you think

Benjamin Franklin thought there was any credence in what he wrote? Or was he trying to sell a piece of writing? I don't know. And I think you could argue for it either way. Of course, it would sell papers. Of course, it would. And there are lots of examples of these kinds of reports in the 18th century, in particular, where people get really riled up and think whatever this local monster or magical thing is, that it's real, and there's this kind of excitement briefly, and then someone will prove that it's not real. So on the one hand, it would sell papers. But we're thinking Benjamin Franklin famously is very interested in scientific experimentation. He's very caught up in the conversations that this Enlightenment world is bringing to the table.

I think he would be on the lookout for something like this, and he would be excited to be the discoverer of it i think he's 30 years old at this point he's a man relatively young man still on the make looking to make his name in the world looking to make a living my instinct although as you said we can't know my instinct is he didn't believe a word of this but he needed to pay his rent or he needed to put food on the table or whatever it was. So he spins a yarn and a yarn that he knows people will lap up. I mean, that's still something people do today.

That's not that unusual. OK, so we've talked a little bit about the mermaid appearing in terms of the British Empire, in terms of very much a European Western tradition, that it's something other, it's something to go and be discovered, something that may or may not be out there that people can kind of have fun with, that becomes something reported in newspapers, part of a modern conversation about what the world is at that moment. Is the mermaid purely a Western tradition though? It isn't. And after the break, when we come back, we have a little treat for our After Dark listeners, where the children from Harris Primary Academy, Coleraine Park,

where I used to teach drama many moons ago, are going to tell us a story about a mermaid who comes from Nigeria. Wendy's has a new breakfast deal. Mix and match two items of your choice for only $4. Breakfast wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small seasoned potatoes or small hot coffee. Choose two for $4 at Wendy's. Available for a limited time at participating Wendy's in Canada.

Taxes extra. Catherine of Aragon. Anne Boleyn. Jane Seymour. Anne of Cleves, Catherine Howard, Catherine Parr. Six wives, six lives. I'm Professor Susanna Lipscomb, and this month on Not Just the Tudors, I'm joined by a host of experts to tell the stories of the six queens of Henry VIII, who shaped and changed England forever. Subscribe to and

follow Not Just the Tudors from History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. welcome back to after dark now as we promised before the break we have a very special story for you this time and it is read to us by some of the Year 5 children at Harris Primary Academy Coleraine Park, specifically Kayla, Deborah, Ira, Amira and Mariah. The Nigerian sun rises in the glorious anticipation of the day ahead. This morning, Akinola, the fisherman, has risen and will go to work. That day, the water is still and smiles off the sun. A good day to fish, Akinola thinks, as he pushes the boat onto the water.

Once positioned, I drift on the never-ending seas. Akinola casts his net. The fish will come, he thinks to himself. They always do. It wasn't long before he felt a tug cast's net. The fish will come, he thinks to himself. They always do. It wasn't long before he felt a tug on the net. A powerful tug. A big fish, he thought to himself. Perfect! He pulled the net towards the surface, then got to his feet and heaved even harder. Suddenly, his catch broke the surface of the Atlantic Ocean, but it was no fish. In his net, he saw the form of a woman, her skin the colour of fertile soil, and her black hair gracefully coiffed.

Panicking, he weeped for the woman's hand to help pull her into his boat and save her life. But she did not take his hand. Instead, she studied him, curiously. Do you not wish to be saved he asked the mysterious woman from the deep she did not reply but then akinola noticed the water snake swimming about her petrified he wobbled in his boat lost balance and plunged into the water akinola opened his eyes beneath the waves and saw that the woman was not a woman at all, for she had a red and white tail.

Mummy water? The mermaid spirit? The mysterious sea sign replied with a nod, carrying him safely back to his boat. This Akinola knew who was Mother Water, the celebrated African spirit, the sacred element of water herself. That was just adorable. I loved that. Well, I used to teach them drama many years ago so no wonder no wonder they're so eloquent all talent down to anthony clearly yeah okay so let's talk about the

story that we've just heard i think it has so many interesting elements but something that is speaking to me that's different from the Benjamin Franklin story is the fact that the mermaid here is a goddess she's a divine being she's not just a curiosity or an animal in the natural world she's something elevated beyond that she's initially mistaken for a human being she's pulled up in a net as though she's a fish so we have these that traditional folk story or fairy tale rhythm of is she a fish is she a human no third time lucky no she's a mermaid and that grouping of three always comes up in in story so we have her as this combination of things she is described as being a combination, but that combination then makes her

something altogether different again. Yeah. And it's interesting because you talk about it being taking the female form, which she does, of course, in this particular story. But there are other African stories that say that this type of figure could be a male figure as well. And the other variation you get is we heard in that story that the mother of water had a fish tail. But actually, if I do our old after dark customary thing that we do with pictures, I've given you a picture in the briefing notes, Maddy. So if you just grab a look at that there. And this is a depiction of the mother of water. And it's from the Minneapolis Institute of Art. And if you could just describe it to the listeners so that we can see how this description varies from the description

that we just heard in the story of Akinola. So this is a sculpture. It's hard to tell how big it is in this photo. There's not really anything for context. It looks like it's made of wood, I think. It's painted. So it's made of wood i think it's painted so it's a figure of a woman and this is not a half female half serpent or fish situation she has a human female form she's got legs and actually has what look like silver high heels on amazing she has a little yellow skirt and a sort of silvery top and her arms are raised with her hands level with her eyes and around her whole body and around her arms going over her shoulders are i think two separate snakes that have sort of intertwined with her and she's holding the neck of one in one hand

she looks like she's sort of in command of them. Not necessarily what you'd expect for a mermaid. No. And as I said, different from what is contained in the Akinola story. But there are elements there that were in the story. For instance, the snakes. And the snakes apparently signify wisdom, rebirth, creativity, transformation, healing and immortality. And as I mentioned, we've seen this variation in the description, but this mother of water could also be a father of water, depending on which parts of Africa the story is coming from. She's often seen as holding a mirror and a brush, and you see that in Western mermaids too. And they become signifiers of

fortune and doom, which I think is fascinating because this really sums up the mermaid. And if we think back to that previous story, Akinola was intrigued, but terrified. And there is something around mermaids that is consistent about people being intrigued and going, oh, there's this human element. We can talk to them. We can know something about them. And yet this fear that they're bringing this sense of doom and foreboding and they're delivering bad news. And this is very much what happens when we talk about the Nigerian mother of water. Don't you think that's how people feel about large bodies of water anyway? That it's almost a metaphor for that, for oceanic travel, for oceanic travel, for human interaction with the sea,

that you're both curious and terrified. And the mermaid having these characteristics, these powers, these abilities or meanings, to me, that says so much about travel, trade, fortune, and doom. These are the things that might await you if you get into a boat, into a ship. Go on the seas. And go on the sea. Yeah, absolutely. And so she becomes an embodiment of that. And even if your fortune is my catch a fish for that day, or your fortune is crossing the Atlantic Ocean to discover, as you would term it, a new world. Those are very various

fortunes, but it's symbolic nonetheless of, are you going to survive today or are you going to drown and go to your doom or whatever it might be? This mother of water talking about that actual historic travel then, her story travels, we have traces of it in the American colonies. No points for guessing that this is absolutely due to the transatlantic slave trade. So that story is then becoming a global story and she becomes an international rather than just a Nigerian figure. There's something here as well about the interaction, the moment of meeting between human beings and mermaids. In this story, we have the male fisherman panicking that he has to save this woman who's in the water, but she's also observing him.

I think it was described as she has a look of curiosity. She's looking back at him. And it's this meeting of two worlds. And again, this is something that characterizes oceanic travel for human beings throughout time this meeting of different peoples different cultures different ideas and sort of looking back at one another yeah and she becomes something of that transatlantic travel as you're saying in this meeting point between cultures but then she also represents something far more timeless in that there are very modern depictions of mother Water as well, where now if there is a depiction, she is seen as a figure of modernity, I guess, in terms of travel and globalization. And she's also seen as a figure of worldly sophistication in our own time.

That's what she stands for now. So I think that's really interesting because it links back to what you were saying about this facing new cultures coming together, but then fast forward three, 400 years, and that leads to this idea of globalization. And there is a mermaid sitting at the very center of that. So the mermaid, the global mermaid is a shapeshifter. She takes all these different forms and she can fit different ideas, different narratives, different priorities of different people. It's so fascinating. So we've been to Benjamin Franklin's America. We have been to the calm shores of Nigeria. You have one more mermaid story for us, I think. Guess where I'm taking you now? Ireland. This is an interesting one that, in a way, ties the two stories that we've already encountered together. Lutie watched the waves recede along the Berra Peninsula, County Kerry, Ireland.

That evening the sky was grey, the water was grey, the beach was grey and the rocks were grey. It was a grey day in County Kerry. Lutie was well-liked in his local community and a hard worker. And while he had many admirers, he had never quite found the woman of his dreams. That evening feeling particularly lonely he took to the peninsula to watch the Atlantic Ocean sweep out to sea from his beloved Kerry shoreline and offered his worries up to the departing waters that they might be taken away from him and into some far-flung corner of the world. As Lutty looked out, he suddenly saw something. Now, if you had not been

Lutty and knew this peninsula like the back of your hand, you would not have seen it at all. But Lutty was Lutty, and he knew every rock on this shore, so he knew what he saw. It was a merrow, rock on this shore, so he knew what he saw. It was a merrow, a creature of fable or so he thought, and yet here she was, beautiful and captivating right before him. So entranced was Lutty that before he knew it his legs were moving and he was standing beside the beautiful merrow, asking her if she was stranded. She looked at him in despair but did not answer. Lutty could not bear to see this poor creature struggle so, so he bent over and scooped the merrow into his arms and walked towards the roaring Atlantic. Once he was waist deep, he let the merrow go, but although she

recovered, she did not swim away. Instead, she turned, faced him and placed her cold hands either side of his face and kissed him. Lottie flushed then as the merrow, Marina was her name, explained that because he saved her, she would grant him three wishes. Lottie could not believe his luck. He paused and thought for a while. Marina did not brush him, she knew this was an important moment in his life. Lottie gathered himself and asked for the following. Firstly, he wished for the ability to break the spells of evil witchcraft.

Secondly, he wished for the power to compel the spirits of the other world to do only good things in this world. And finally, that these powers should be passed to his heirs after he had gone. Well, Marina was impressed. She had never met a man with such selfless wishes, so she said she would grant them. Lutty thanked her and offered her his hand to seal the agreement, but when he went to take it back, he could not free himself from her grasp. Marina had decided that Lutty was such a singular fellow that she did not wish to let him go.

She wanted him for herself. Marina leaned closer to him. The sea gathered round the man now, while the wind whistled in his ears. Then he heard Marina's voice, as if entwined with the wind itself. She was enchanting him. He suddenly understood the danger he was in and drew his iron knife. Now iron, as everybody knows, terrifies fairy folk. Marina suddenly withdrew, her screams smashing against the shore on the winds. She dove beneath the waves then, putting a safe distance between herself and Lutty and turned to deliver a final warning.

herself and Lutty and turned to deliver a final warning. Lutty was free to go, but in nine summers time, Marina would return to reclaim him for herself. Well, Lutty, you let yourself down there drawing a knife on a mermaid well what was he supposed to do just let her take him into the depths so that was it absolutely um very interesting story we are as everyone knows a maths podcast and we've got that grouping of three again got the grouping of three wishes this time and then we've got the nine summers three threes i don't know it's a kind of traditional fairy tale structure again we've got the meeting of these two worlds happening on the beach at the shoreline this kind of peripheral edge of human civilization we have a mermaid here who is explicitly more threatening and more magical yes than before

yes and this mermaid amero is far more like the traditional mermaid that we see in a disney movie for instance she is the half person half fish she is beautiful she's enticing she has this power to enchant where you know lut, Lottie was drawn towards her, he didn't even realise he was walking. So it calls to mind this idea of the siren, right, which a lot of people think mermaids and sirens are the same thing. And in some folklore they are, but in others, sirens are flying creatures, but will lead you to your death almost all the time. But in this story, the merero, crashing against the Atlantic waves, has the capability of leading you to your death too, but at the same time,

can grant you these wishes. So it's, we never know, similar to the Nigerian story, is this good or bad? Is she going to grant us something that is worthwhile? Or is she going to drag us into the depths? And to me, it says so much about power of the ocean and the fact that you must respect it. You can utilize it for your own ends, but ultimately it's in charge of you. It's interesting that you say to me that the Mero looks more like a Disney version of a mermaid because I think she's so much more terrifying than that. I think she's almost like a Disney villain. She's more like Ursula from The Little Mermaid, arguably. Well, think about Ursula, actually. It was

interesting when we were talking about the Mother Water from the Nigerian tales. Ursula has two electric eels with her, doesn't she? So that's interesting. But yes, the marrow is frightening. And if you want to hear about something that's even more frightening, the male meros are apparently absolutely disgusting looking. They have green teeth, green hair, pig's eyes, red noses. I have a red nose right now because I've got a spot, but I'm not a mero, unfortunately. But the women are beautiful. And that's why the women chase after human men, apparently. So the men are disgusting. The women are beautiful. That's why the mero women go after humans. They're seeking out better looking men on the shore. It says something again about female power being located in terms of beauty only as well.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's the beauty that's used to lure men. So, you know, we've talked about the gender fluidity. And by the way, often in the 18th century, male mermaids weren't known as mermen. They were known as tritons. Again, Little Mermaid reference there because that's the name of Ariel's father in The Little Mermaid. But that's what male merpeople were known as in the 18th century, tritons rather than mermen, as we would call them now. It's interesting to me how these historic elements of all these different stories that have been kind of mashed up,

adapted, adopted, appropriated by different people at different times because of global trade and travel, how they are still really visible in our modern culture. Not only in terms of mermaid performances today, there are people who spend their lives working as mermaids, who go and do photo shoots and spend their leisure time as mermaids. But the idea of merpeople is so pervasive in our modern culture. And if you look for it, you can find one particular mermaid in the hands of almost everyone on the planet if you go and get a coffee. Because of course, the Starbucks logo is a mermaid. And I remember being an undergrad at York and one of the lectures I went to and it really stayed with me and if anyone also went to York and went to a similar lecture

please tell me which lecturer this was because I want to write to them because it just it stuck in my mind so much the Starbucks mermaid is or has her roots in at least an early modern 16th 17th century woodcut piece of artwork, a print. And originally, and this is very interesting thinking about female power, female sexuality, and the fact that the mermaid erases genitalia. So in the original woodcut, the mermaid is holding the comb and the mirror, which we know are elements of her outfit, design her sort of persona that crop up again and again in stories and she has a female human top half and then her lower half is not one tail but two and a bit like legs they are spread in different directions and she's holding each fin in her hands

and so you can see what's happening in the middle of those two fins and the starbucks logo incorporated this image originally and it was a lot more explicit and over time it's been cropped and cropped to make it more palatable presumably for a western audience predominantly and now you can't see what's happening in between her tails but you can still just about make out I think there are two tails going off in different directions I think it's so fascinating that okay she's been edited down and made more polite and appropriate for our consumer culture but she's still there she's still there when we drink our coffee I actually didn't know that that was a mermaid until relatively recently I was like like, oh my God. Yeah, it actually is a mermaid. And when

I found out then, yes, I heard all of those things and the origins. And I thought that that was really interesting. But another thing that that reminded me of, which a lot of people may have heard of recently, is the Mermaids Charity in the UK, Mermaids UK, which is a support charity for trans, non-binary and gender diverse children, young people and their families. And the mermaid was adopted as a symbol and as the name for this because it made a distinction between biological sex and gender and the spectrum that people experience

both of those things on. This idea of the mermaid and the fluidity of the mermaid still being a potent symbol in both the LGBTQ plus community and then in, you know, a commercial giant like Starbucks is still very much with us today. It's not something we've left behind in many ways. And she's constantly shapeshifting. She means different things to different people, or indeed he does. Well, on that note, I'm off to get into my old mermaid's tail and put on my purple shell bra and spend the rest of my afternoon in a nearby freezing lake.

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