After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - Final Days of George III

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

How did George III die? Was it raving in a straightjacket? Who stayed with him at the end of his long illness? Today we uncover the truth about George III, the man unfairly remembered as the mad King who lost America.Produced by Freddy Chick. Edited by Tomos Delargy. Senior Producer is Charlotte Long.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds.After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal is a History Hit podcast.

Hi, we're your hosts, Anthony Delaney and Maddie Pelling. And if you would like After Dark myths, misdeeds and the paranormal ad free and get early access, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries with top history presenters and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. Hello and welcome to After Dark. I'm Maddie. And I'm Anthony. And in this episode, we are going to be looking at the final days of a king known as the Mad King and the monarch who lost America. It is George III here to set the scene. Anthony, take it away.

away. George III is in his apartments at Windsor Castle, overlooking the North Terrace, where he and his family once spent happier times. The King is 81 years old. He has been wheeled to his harpsichord for the last time, where he now sits and plays. If we can call it playing. It is more a determined mangling of notes and truth, for he is now blind and almost completely deaf. This isn't the George III you might know, the punching, biting, screaming, bleeding king frothing at the mouth as he raves through the night. Nor is it George, the despotic last king of America, a vestige of the old

world even as the new one takes ever greater strides towards modernity and the promise of a fairer, more democratic form of government that shirks foibles like crowns and sceptres and ermine robes. No. Instead, here is a monarch bent low before death, waiting to be summoned from his gilded surroundings and his many debilitating years of illness. Mercifully, he will not have to wait long. Music played, George now lies in his grand bed, suffocated with pneumonia, his beard a dazzling white. At 8.38pm on Saturday the 29th of January in the year 1820 George III, the mad king who lost America, passes peacefully away.

He has been king for 49 years and 96 days. And so we ask, how did a once vigorous king and ruler of an empire descend into darkness, lost to madness and time. In this episode, we uncover the final tragic chapter in the life of George III, and the forces that helped shape his fall. This is After Hello and welcome back to After Dark, I'm Maddie. And I am still Anthony. And we are here with another final days of episode. Now, if you haven't listened to them, we have so many to go back to through our catalogue. We've done Joan of Arc, we've done Marie Antoinette, we've done Lady Jane Grey, she was a personal favourite, Thomas Cromwell, Anne Boleyn. Also, if you're interested

in Regency or long 18th century history, we've done an episode. Do you remember this one, Anthony? No, we'll be in, so go on, tell me who. Royal Murder, 1810 death in St. James. Yeah, I remember that one. I loved that one. That was my episode. I was really excited to do that one. That is all about George's son, Prince Ernest and his valet or valet. There was a lot of debate, I got a lot of messages about how to pronounce that. And you know what, get over it,

get over it guys. Oh, she's attacking the lizards. The wheels are off. Valet to valet, right in. No, please don't. Today, we are going to be talking about the final days of George the Third. Anthony, we're back in the 18th century. It's the Georgians. It's okay, guys. We're in our comfort zone. George is, or was, he's dead, spoiler alert, the longest reigning king, not queen, of Britain. He ruled from 1760 to 1820, which is, that is my favorite period of history. This is very you as a nurse.

Yeah, this is, there's so much change. There's the beginnings of Industrial Revolution, there's the French Revolution, the American Revolution, there's the Napoleonic Wars, there's Austin, there's the world that George leaves in 1820 is the big, almost the beginning of the Victorian period. It's becoming a recognisably modern world. He sits across this immense period of history. He is known for two things though, typically. One is his mental illness, he's dubbed the Mad King, and also the king that lost America. Yeah, it's a strange legacy that he has because his overall legacy I think almost lives in two different worlds. There's the domestic familial kind of bucolic legacy that he has

and we'll talk about that the Farmer George legacy. Yes, for people who don't know he was dubbed Farmer George in the press because of his interest in things like agriculture, but also he was fascinated by the stars as well and astronomy. And he was a really intellectually curious person. But all that is very much limited to, I mean, he was of course like a patron of all these things and had huge impact in terms of sort of scientific and artistic knowledge being produced in this period. But we think of that as like a private practice of his. Jason Vale Yeah, well, and yeah, and some people argue, I do not, that this is the beginning of the royal family as a concept because they have that privacy that you're talking about.

Sarah Baxter See, that's interesting, because I would say that comes much earlier. Jason Vale Oh, it does come much earlier, but that's just you and me and we're right. Sarah Baxter Who's saying this? Jason Vale Oh, anyway, look, we won't get into that, but it's one of the things. It's all of this tumult and the revolutions that you're talking about, the American Revolution and George having this reputation as having lost America. And so vilified in America. Let's try and get to know the man himself a little bit clearer. So we have the dawn of the Hanoverian rain from 1714. Now this isn't George the third, it's his great grandfather, George the first. There's a lot of Georges,ian reign from 1714. Now this isn't George the third, it's his great grandfather George the first.

There's a lot of Georges, three, well four, but three within the time period we're talking about. And well actually there's more than four because, go on, but yes, in the Georgian period we have the four. George the third, our George, he is born in 1738. He is the oldest son of Frederick, Prince of Wales, who does not become king and Princess Augusta of Saxgotha. He comes to the throne, as you said, Maddie, in 1760 when he inherits from his grandfather. And it's important, I think, to know when we're talking about George, that the nature of kingship has already changed at this point. We have gone from this concept of absolute monarchy, which means essentially the monarch is appointed by God, this person sitting on the throne by divine right. There

is nobody who can question that authority. But in the wake of the English Civil Wars, the Republic and then the Restoration and then the Glorious Revolution in 1688, that concept of this divine right of kings has disappeared. Absolutely. And by the time the Hanoverians come in with George I in 1714, they are deeply unpopular with a lot of the population of Britain. There are riots at that coronation. And George III's coronation in 1761, happens months after he's become king, is a disaster. A jewel falls out of the crown. At one point his queen consort, Queen Charlotte of Bridgerton fame, ladies and gentlemen, tries to go to the toilet that's been specially set up for her and for her use only only to find the Prime Minister is in there not very well and is just taking up that space that is aligned for her. So

there's a lot that he has to prove and already when he comes to the throne, things are going wrong. Symbolically, they're going wrong. He is open to criticism immediately and he has a difficult reign, a tumultuous reign. He does and you kind of hinted at it there. By his side the entire time is Charlotte Mecklenburg Strelitz, who he married when she was 17 and he was 22. So they are an arranged marriage, obviously, because all of these royal marriages at this level are. But there was love there. They cultivated love. Don't think though that just

because of depictions in Bridgerton, it was an absolute love match. The king was expected to take mistresses. There were other lovers. So it wasn't necessarily what we would understand as a devoted love match. But in terms of royal marriages in the 18th century, it certainly was. Their relationship is fascinating and we don't really have time to dwell on it here, but Charlotte. We'll do it in another episode. Yeah, we'll do another episode on Charlotte because she's so fascinating and she, like George, was intellectually curious, artistically curious, and was a patron of so many different circles of intellectual exploration.

She's really, really important in the 18th century in her own right and in terms of what happens to George and actually how he's treated. You know, we're going to talk about his descent into madness. She holds on for as long as she can trying to care for him, trying to be in his company, in his presence to treat him empathetically. She's a remarkable figure. Let's do an episode on her. For now, let's stay with George. They have a lot of children. Yeah, 15 I think. It's in my notes tomorrow. Arguably too many, some would say.

I would definitely say one is too many. 15 children, 13 of whom survive. Now, obviously that's them being very successful. That's George being a very successful monarch and Charlotte being a very successful consort. They are securing the line. However, as with all of the Hanoverians, they fall out with their air. There's always this tension with the air. There's so much intergenerational fighting in the Georgian period. Yeah. It's, it's, it's an interesting tension filled relationship. And we will talk about that as we go through this episode a little bit, but this is always one of the things that's always appealed to me about George, even as an Irishman who not many of the monarchs do appeal, but George has this, the idea of farmer George and they used to take the piss out of him slightly by calling it farmer

George. It was, it was, it was everywhere in satire. It was a joke. He was a laughing stock because he, I agree, I can't help but like him to a certain extent. I think we have a very sort of Hamilton-esque vision of him in our popular culture. And that's not to say that he didn't occupy that space and he wasn't those things. But he is a very nuanced and interesting figure actually. And I think a more empathetic one, the fact that he used to dress in normal gentleman's clothing a lot of the time. I think, I don't know about you, but for me, he's someone who the crown sits uncomfortably on his head and he doesn't always want to be in that spotlight. He wants to just get on with the things he's interested in, whether that's doing a bit of farming, spot farming, whether it's looking

at the stars, whatever it is. He actually actually in certain moments in his life in particular resents having to step up and be king. And I think it's really reflective of, we were talking earlier about the lack of absolute monarchy at this time. And so in many ways, the monarch is trying to find what his or her role is, going, well, what do I do if I'm not controlling government in the same way that Charles I tried to or Charles II, even Charles II after the restoration still was technically an absolute monarch. So, you know, maybe he's finding his, and he's also particularly British in terms of the Hanoverians. That's when we kind of first really get a British Hanoverian, because the others are so still tied

to the German principalities from which they came. Hanover. Yeah, well, George I, when he arrives as king in 1714, doesn't speak a word of English. Of course, by the time we get to George III, they are more integrated in terms of British culture. And don't forget Britain has only existed from the very earliest years of the 18th century. We talk about him in terms of his sort of personal small domestic life and who was as a person but he was of course also a figurehead for a vast empire. He's an incredibly powerful figure and a symbol of that empire and all of the violence and oppression that went with that. He is the monarch who loses America as well. This is the other element of him along with the madness

that he's remembered for. Yeah, so we're talking about the American Revolutionary War, which, you know, we always say 1776, but of course it's happening before that in 1775. And then the implications of the Declaration of Independence in 76 last into 1783. So we're looking at a relatively long period of time. Some people just think it's this one year when we think about 76, but nonetheless that's when the Declaration of Independence is declared. And more than half of the grievances that are listed in the Declaration of Independence, they're against George III himself. So it really is put at his doorstep and he becomes the figurehead for what they're trying

to leave. And he becomes a tyrant, right, as well. Yeah. And he feels this loss really, really keenly. In the Royal Archives, there is a piece of paper that I have seen. I went there and I was doing some research on Queen Charlotte many years ago where he wrote in his journal, America is lost! The exclamation point at the end.

And you see that in his handwriting. This moment of complete catastrophe across the pond he's seen as a tyrant at home. This is a massive disaster for him. And it's one of the many blows against him that I suppose contribute to the deterioration of his mental state. You know, he has a series of illnesses that come and go throughout his life but get progressively worse. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because what we have is this man who is troubled by his loss of America. This is a huge failure in terms of the head of state. This is a huge failure. And it's a huge public failure and a huge visible failure. Yeah. And you know, you talk about him not really

knowing what his function is as a king. It is to lead this empire. He has to hold all of that together. And throughout this period, you know, we've got the Captain Cook voyages, we've got all this exploration, this expansion of empire, we've got slavery going on, you know, across the transatlantic world. Everything is growing. There's huge wealth, people are investing in this. And he drops the ball. Yeah. And it's also, I think it's really worth noting at this point as well that you were talking about, oh, there's this kind of like farmer George thing and it's all very cute and cozy. He is also the head of state that oversees the biggest expansion of the slave trade in

America. You know, it's so he, although he's not directly responsible, he is the head of that and he has invested he has invested in that slave trade. So, you know, he's gaining significantly. So I think it's important to keep that in mind. So in terms of him being portrayed as a, as a kind of a nefarious agent in the American mindset at this time, great, he is, you know, but they're also not declaring that slavery is outlawed either. So it's, you know, it's, it's, there's new ones, there's new ones to it. But he saw these revolutionaries in America, George III, and you're talking about that exclamation mark, he saw them as kind of bad children, which feeds into this idea of what the monarch is now, the kind of the father of empire, the father

of nations. And these are his children who are like his real child, George, who goes on to be George the fourth, rebelling against him and acting out in their teenage years almost. Which as we've said is a sort of a key anxiety in the Georgian dynasty, these fathers and sons who cannot get on. Yeah. And it's a loss. It's a huge loss as it is that his relationship with his son is lost but also that America is ultimately lost too. And then you've hinted at it there Maddie where there is always this theory isn't there, that we move into maybe the George we know a little bit better when he descends into madness, or what's now referred to as

madness, the madness of King George. And a lot of people try to kind of put that at the loss of America going, oh, well, this is why he was so strained from the loss of America going, oh, well, this is why he was so strained from the loss of America, that he lost his mind. Thoughts on that? What do you think in terms of how well that stands up? Do you think there's anything in it? Anna I think there is. I think that there are lots of other things going on with him as well. I don't think there's necessarily one contributing factor. There are other factors that I hope to explore in a book in the future, which I will not be sharing here currently, Anthony, but I think it's a culmination of

lots of things, familial things going on in his domestic life and his intellectual life. His frustration that he can't just be left alone to do the things that he wants to do, mixed with this immense pressure that's on him and then this catastrophe of America that happens. And you know, it's not just America. We have the end of the 1780s, we've got the French Revolution and all the terror that that brings across the channel. It ain't that far away. People are executing the monarchs, the aristocracy, there are guillotines, there's blood in the streets. And there is a feeling in the 1790s that revolution could easily spread to Britain and that George himself and his family might be in danger.

I think it's a real danger too, right? Let's be honest. They are in some way surrounded by rebellion in Ireland, revolution in America and France. They're surrounded by it. There are lots and lots of conspiracies and plotting in Britain to take down the monarchy. This isn't just a debate that's happening on paper or some kind of intellectually abstract thing. This is something people are fighting to bring about in Britain as well. But I think you're right. Despite those pressures, I think it would be naive to suggest that it's just those events and those pressures that are causing whatever form of madness or mental illness that we experience with George. And let's have a look at some of those episodes

because they come in different episodes. The first major episode is 1788 to 1789. Then we have 1801, 1804. And these separate events last for a few months. So he comes and goes in lucidity and it's causing kind of back channel discussions between politicians, other members of the royal family, Charlotte's playing her role and trying to keep this as under wraps as possible. Yeah. And they, you know, they try and keep this private and yet within the royal household, the danger that George poses to himself and to other people is rapidly growing. There's a really famous extract in the diary of Frances Burney, who is an amazing writer of the 18th century, but she was also a lady-in-waiting at the court. She describes being chased around

the garden, I think at Kew Palace, by George. She is terrified of what he's going to do to her. That was not an uncommon experience for the women at court. And Charlotte eventually, as we're probably going to go on to discuss, eventually can't see her husband anymore. She just can't bear it. So, you know, this isn't just a deterioration of his mind, where he's becoming less and less powerful and more insular. There are violent outbursts, there are moments of real fear from the people around him. And for George himself, this is scary stuff. Absolutely. I think some of his fear was causing those physical outbursts. And it's not until

1810 that we find a real disintegration of his mental capacity. We'll come to that, but let's start with what he was experiencing in 1788 and 1789. Yes, tell me some of the symptoms. So famously he would babble, talk incredibly fast about any subject and many subjects all at once. And he would just go and go and go until such times as it was seen that he was frothing from the mouth. And this is where this idea of real madness and discernible physical madness is. And that's so sad for a man who is, as we've said, so intellectually curious. He devours books on different subjects. He is someone who wants to be hands on and experiment with things. And you can

just imagine that his mind is, even in his healthy moments, full of information, full of enthusiasm, and it's all becoming jumbled. I mean, it's tragic. Oh, it's really tragic. And he has, what's even more tragic is that he has this inability to discern reality from what is happening in his head, that overflow of information. So he starts talking to people who are not there, which is frightening for people at court because this is the head of state. Especially at a time when revolution is bubbling everywhere, we need somebody steady who's guiding the ship. He's not in a position to do that. You mentioned he gets violent. He does. He hits out at pages. There was one point at which he pinned the prince to the

wall. You could talk about whether that was an elusive moment or not because the relationship was pretty strained. But he is violent. You're talking about fear that Francis Bernie experienced while other people, the Pages, his sons, his family are experiencing that too. The press starts to get hold of this, despite Charlotte's, his Queen's best efforts. This starts to leak out into literate society and they know that the king is not well. And there's all this talk about him having shaken hands with an oak tree because he thought he was communing with it and he thought it was the king of Prussia, I believe it was. So it's starting to worry people, but also people are laughing at him because they don't quite grasp what it is.

He's lost his mind as far as they're aware. So it's quite a harsh treatment he receives in the press, I think once the 88 89 episode becomes public knowledge. Over the years, we'll go on to talk about the other attacks in a moment and these other bouts of illness that he has. But over the years, there's been attempts to diagnose what was wrong with him. And every few years, you know, something will come out, this is the definitive answer of what was wrong. And then someone else will say, no, no, no, you can't possibly know. And we are always reticent when it comes to making these diagnoses in the past. But do we have a sense, is there today an understanding of what was possibly wrong with him? What was happening to him?

Yeah, I think the main point that most people agree on now is Pfeuria, which was a blood disease that was inherent within the royal family and that is traceable before this and afterwards as well. So we think that it's a side effect of that. But it's not straightforward. It's not just that because the other people who had that illness didn't experience the same symptoms as he did. So he has a very acute sense of this particular illness, if indeed that's what it was. We also, as we shall see in later life, talk about potentially him having dementia. I think that's what it was. We also, as we shall see in later life, talk about potentially him having dementia. I think that's quite likely, or some form of dementia. And then

more recently people have toyed with the idea that he potentially had some kind of bipolar disorder. I think what's clear is that A, we don't know, and never will, not truly. And B, it's difficult to say whether this was something that was something more genetic or something that was affecting him in another way medically, but certainly it had a profound impact. And as a result, because the symptoms were so on show and so displayed, the treatment, especially to our eyes, seems very extreme. Well, let's talk about the treatment then, because we don't know what this illness was from our modern perspective, but they certainly didn't know in the 18th century. They gave it a good go though. And the famously, many lists, as I'm sure we'll already know, that

the treatment that George receives is extreme. Yeah, to begin with, especially because it's interesting because the field of psychiatry, I suppose, as we know it now, is starting to emerge at this point. But it was nowhere near advanced, obviously, as we have it now. And so, what you see as it goes on, as these illnesses progress, the treatment starts to become more humane, but not necessarily humane to our standards. So in the beginning, in the 1788-89 spell, what we see is he's being blistered, it's using acostic powder, putting his legs and his feet leeches at his temples. He's being cupped, so you know those hot cups that

they put on your back or anywhere on your body really, to draw blood to the surface of the skin. And then incisions are made to let that blood. So, you know, that's taking its toll on the body in physical ways. On the physical body when you are already in a state of mental distress, to put it mildly. Yeah. And then Charlotte intervenes because she goes, look, I can see what this is doing to him. She knows him better than anybody. This is too much. You get such an insight, don't you, into their relationship in this moment that she does intervene and she's like, this is not working and it's cruel. And she tries to change the

treatment plan and the doctors, right? She does, yeah. She gets a guy called Frances Willis who comes in and takes over and Frances is an expert in running asylums. So she is very much on the idea that this is a mental illness of some, she wouldn't have used the term mental illness, but that's where she sees this is coming from. So she thinks it needs to be treated in that way. And Willis is far more concerned with calming his patients rather than working them up through cupping and cutting and leaching and all this kind of thing. He wants to calm them down, give them activities to engage the brains, almost distract them from some of the manic symptoms that they're experiencing.

He does time in a straight jacket though and gags in as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So from our perspective, it's hard to see this as human treatment. Bear in mind, at the time, this was a huge advancement in humane treatment for disorders like this, or what was perceived to be disorders like this. So he is getting the most up to date treatment and obviously we can't hold modern treatment standards to somebody in the 1780s, 1790s, but it's clear how much unknown is involved in this illness, even then as much as now. So we've got George suffering with his first major attack. There are some discussions that

I think there was a slightly earlier attack, I think in the 1760s, but this is generally billed as the first big moment of illness for him. And certainly when this is the moment when people start to become aware of it beyond the royal family themselves. In this moment, in 1789, towards the end of this bout, obviously we have the beginnings of the French Revolution. The royal family are executed at the beginning of the 1790s, but they're imprisoned for those years in between. It's a moment of incredible tension and in Britain, as we've said, there's this anxiety that the King isn't up to snuff, that he is not in a position to lead the ship. And then we've got the problem of young Prince George.

If I can bear George III, I can bear George III. You know when people are like, no. So you know when people are like, who would you have to your historical dinner party? If he turned up, I would be kicking him out. He is horrendous. I couldn't be bothered with him. Why have I taken the side of George III? This is very odd to find myself in that situation. George III, I mean, I will say aesthetically. No, see, I don't even like that. It's too late for me. No, I'm just like, calm down. Brighton Pavilion. I don't like Brighton Pavilion. I'm so sorry, Brighton Pavilion.

But I love the wildness. Like it's good fun. But he's, I mean, just give us an insight into him, please, Anthony, because he's just. Well, he wants power and the factions of the government want him to have power so that they can more readily control what's going on in the court. And he makes a play for regency now. Regency basically means that the king is somehow incapacitated. Often you'd see a regency when the king is a child for instance, somebody would be appointed. So this is the same thing. The king is incapacitated. His son, who is the heir, so it makes logical sense. Who is utterly untrustworthy, is like literally spending, he's hemorrhaging money constantly. He's partying. He takes no responsibility for anything ever. He is a nightmare. Not the kind

of person you would want as the regent. And Charlotte certainly didn't want this either. You know, like, and his sisters didn't want this. This wasn't something that many people apart from the opposition did want. I think Charlotte should have been regent. Well there was discussion. It was discussed. So it was certainly a possibility. He doesn't get it at this point, not at the 89 illness. Thankfully, because George recovers, he starts to very much come back to himself. It's very clear to everybody at court that he's back to himself. And there must have been such relief in this moment, right? Because of course, people at that stage don't know there's going to be these other bouts. They're thinking, yeah,

that was a blip. What was that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now let's get back to holding the monarchy on a pedestal. Just don't look at what's happening in France. Everything's fine. Just in time. Yeah. So the Regency bill doesn't go through in the end. It got to Bill point. It did pass in the House of Commons, but it didn't pass in the House of Lords. So we're safe enough on that sense. And then because everybody had known that George III was unwell, when they hear he's recovered, there's actually huge celebrations. But I mean, yeah, I think there's a massive thing at West, is it Westminster Abbey? I think they have like a huge, almost like a coronation style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, very much, I don't think we can necessarily use that to read the public mood. And certainly,

as we've said, there was a lot of rumblings of unrest and a lot of calls for revolution in Britain. But in terms of the PR version that the palace is putting out, it's like, everything's back to normal. Isn't George wonderful? What a great monarchy he is. Don't worry that he lost America. Yeah. Don't think about that now. Your dad's back guys. Everything's going to be fine. Yeah. Everything's good. Steady the ship. Yeah. And there are street parties as well. So this is, you know, we are supposed to think, phew, we dodged a bullet there and everything's absolutely fine.

Not the case. But it's not the case. We got a few years, as I said, there was another bout in 1801 and 1804, but it's not until we get to 1810 that it's a re- we don't recover after it. By we, I mean, not me. Not the royal we. We being George doesn't recover. Right. Well, this is the final days. So let's get to the final days or the decade. Give the people what they want. The decade in the run up to the final days. So this is, we've had the bouts in 1788 and

19, 1801, 1804. Those are three bouts from which you recover. From which you recover. But then this is kind of the beginning of the end. Did you like my maths? Excellent counting on our fingers as well. So this is the fourth bout, the fourth and final decade long bout. Yeah. This is not the final days, this is the final years.

Decade. And so by 1810 then, George has suffered so much that he is almost blind. He's been on the throne for 50 years. No mean feat. Which is a long time. Given the climate around the world at this point. And his illnesses. Yeah.

You know? And so there's again, we talk about celebrations when he's well, there's huge celebrations for his golden jubilee. But one thing we do notice, and this, you know, you might be forgiven for thinking this is slightly different because of the popularity of things like Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte. By the time we get to 1810, because he's had recurrent bouts of illness in 1801 and 1804, those bouts have taken their toll on the marriage. And there is essentially a separation between George and Charlotte at this point. For her own safety in a lot of ways. Yeah, yeah. She just, she just, I don't know, I don't, listen, we could guess as to why

she feels the need to, but he blames her. He blames her, George blames Charlotte for overseeing his, what he interprets in his kind of more difficult periods as his imprisonment. He feels like he's the king and why on earth is he being restrained? And also, you know, you said earlier about potentially that there's an element of dementia here as well as the other mental illnesses. And for anyone who's experienced a relative with that, there's a lot of anger and a lot of blaming that goes on often by patients who have dementia and a kind of confusion and feeling threatened. And I see that in George. I mean, I'm not a medical doctor. I'm not diagnosing this in the past,

but I really read that from an experience in my own family. Like I completely see that. Also George and Charlotte's children start to die off in this period. There's a lot of deaths and I think it's the youngest. I think it's Amelia, who George is particularly close to and really adores. And she dies. And I think her death sort of been written into this story of his final descent into true madness and sort of irreparable damage. That is often listed as one of the major triggers that he just he is so worn down by these losses throughout his life, whether it's family members or America or you know, this this feeling of security, the relationship that he has with his son, that George IV trashes really, you know, has very little respect for his dad. And then you've got

the separation with Charlotte. It's this culmination of personal and political disasters really. I think so. No, I do agree with you. I suppose my only caveat would be, we, not you and I, human beings, historians, are terrible for wanting to know the reasons for these things. And sometimes it's just there. Well, you can't know what was happening inside someone else's head. Yeah, and especially if it's like, if it is a genetic thing and we always want to know what triggers it and why, why, why, why has this happened?

But you know, Charlotte was experiencing these things too and she didn't have the same reaction. So it does feel like something that's more, that he's more biologically or genetically inclined towards and possibly this would have all happened. I mean, you know, infant mortality rates are not what we would understand them as today for a lot of people and that doesn't happen to most people. They don't experience the death of their children in the same way. One thing I will say is in his more lucid moments, just before the 1810 bout, he knows it's coming on. He can feel that it's coming on, which also to me suggests there being a medical thing where, you know sometimes when you're just like, oh, I can feel I'm not right. I'm not sure what's wrong, but I can feel I'm not right.

And he's still self-aware enough that he can self-diagnose that. Yes, because he says to his doctors, I'm quoting here, I feel I am going to be ill in the former way. And I request of you two that you will not be induced on any account to represent me as recovered till you are satisfied that I am perfectly so. By permitting me to go abroad on the last occasion the physicians were the cause of my doing a great many absurd and foolish things." Now the last occasion he's referring to there is his bout in 1804. So he's saying, keep me away. Like, keep me safe basically.

It's so tragic. And what I think that quote shows us is just how dependent George, the monarch, was on the people around him. And we're not necessarily talking about Parliament or the House of Lords, the House of Commons, whatever. Not even Charlotte now. Not Charlotte. We're talking about these medical men, and they are men, who are surrounding him, who have been brought in and he is trusting them. They have power over the King of Britain over this huge empire. He is this figurehead. And then there's this little circle of medical practitioners who are pulling the strings behind the scenes and that he is saying, you have to treat me and you have to get me better and I'm trusting you not to let me

embarrass myself and only to be put back into the world onto the throne when you are satisfied that I'm not going to do that. It feels like, it feels very much like that's the person saying that rather than that's the king saying that, do you know what I mean? And you know, talking about them being in charge of this figurehead and he kind of even loses that status because the regency begins in 1811 and this time the future George IV does take over as regent so the bill passes, they have no choice but to pass it. And from 1812 it's almost a good thing that that's happened because he stops recognizing any members of his family. He's really lost to the reality in the world.

He's virtually blind as well at this point. So, you know, he can't literally see anyone who's visiting him. What I find fascinating is just how removed he becomes from the world around him, not just as a human being in terms of his family relationships, but also as the king. Yes, there is a regency, George IV is sort of dealing with stuff in the distance as far as George III is concerned, but things like he doesn't even know when Britain wins the Battle of Waterloo, because of course, the Napoleonic Wars following the French Revolution are the backdrop of all these years. He's completely unaware of that. He doesn't know what's happening. These huge global struggles that are playing out on the continent in Europe, but across

these big empires. And there's all these moving parts, you know, there's ships fighting in the sea, there's land battles going on. There's all this immense struggle for power across the globe where Britain is locked in with France in a world war and he doesn't realize it. No, and I suppose to a certain extent they purposely keep all of that from him as well rather than kind of tempt fate and potentially send him into an even worse spiral or whatever it might be. But he's, as you know, as you say, very much in the care of people who are not his family. At this point, when we talk about 1810 onwards, he's in the care of Robert Willis,

who's the son of Francis Willis. Now Francis was the asylum expert who Charlotte had brought into the frame in the 1788-89 bout. And it's not unusual, of course, in the 18th century, the early 19th century for that to be a family business in terms of running an asylum. Yeah, I think what always gets me about this period as well is that George, because he's surrounded by people who are essentially strangers, you know, he doesn't have any kind of emotional relationship with these people, he wouldn't choose to know them. And obviously, he can never be friends with them, really. And he he's relying on them in all these different ways. And he starts to talk to people who aren't there. And I find this so tragic that he thinks he's having a conversation with

Lord North, the prime minister. The prime minister, by the way, during the American Revolution in the 1770s, not the prime minister during the Regency period. He talks to Princess Emilia, his dead daughter, about her own funeral. I mean, it's just so, it's piercingly sad. And you know, he talks to his young son, Oct Octavius who died in 1783 at the age of four. So his mind is bringing up these people who've gone from his life who were important. And interestingly, ghosts from pivotal damaging moments in his life. Losing America, the death of two of his children. That these are the things that are haunting him in his final years. I mean, on a positive note, his daughters are generally with him at Windsor, not always,

they come and go, but for most of the time. And it's because of Princess Mary's extensive letter writing that we know some of the ins and outs of what is happening with his illnesses. Not just that, because actually we have some interesting, let me read you some, his physicians are keeping some notes on the illness during this period of time. Which is so remarkable that we have this insight. It is. And here's the thing, like, okay, so November 1817 for instance, it's written that in this month the king's beard was cut off with a pair of scissors by his own desire. This is the only circumstance deserving of being noticed. So we talked about the gnashing and the howling and the biting and the physical violence in

the earlier bouts. But what we see here is something far more sedate, I suppose. Fast forward to 1819 and he's saying, during this month the king has gone on in his usual manner, drinking and sleeping like people in health, his mind constantly occupied with his usual fantasies. So it's not as violent a turn this time, but devastating nonetheless. And he in the art of this period as well, he is depicted, there are portraits of him in this moment, which I sort of find fascinating, you know, that's a different kind of observation of the king whilst he's under all this kind of medical care that artists are having some access to him, presumably limited, but there are paintings of him and I'm looking at one here by the

artist Joseph Lee. And this is a portrait of George when he is deaf and blind at this point towards the very end of his life. And he's depicted as this pallid, fragile, old man. He's virtually bald. He has the beard in this painting that we hear from his physicians is cut off at one point. And he, his face is haunted, contorted. He's got these very heavy brows. He's leaning his head on his hand and sort of looking off into the distance. And there's an absence about him. He's not really present. He's an empty shell of the person that he once was. It is not a king. No.

It doesn't look like a king. It's something far more tragic. It's something far more haunting actually. The more you look at it actually, I've never seen a king depicted like this. Powerless. Yeah, in the 18th century. It just doesn't happen. He looks like a philosopher maybe or something like that, but he certainly doesn't look like a king. And actually he has that Hanoverian eyes bulging, which also makes him look even madder. His cheeks are quite tight and gaunt now that I'm looking at it even closer and he's entirely bald. And yet he's surrounded in, you know,

opulence furs and he's got this incredible blue cloak type stole thing around him and the beautiful red material in the background he's sitting on. Which makes you think how much of that is the artist's intervention. I doubt that George would sit for this portrait to all wear those kind of items at this stage. This is probably done from some preparatory sketches that the artist's been able to snatch during the 10 seconds he was allowed to see the King, if at all. And we have to remember as well that at this point, it's a very lonely picture, kind of as you're saying, not this opulent glamour filled thing because Princess Mary's gone

because she's gotten married, so that's another person who's lost, she's still alive. One of the final allies. Yeah, so by 1816 she's gone. 1818, Charlotte is dead. And that all was surprisingly, you know, Charlotte was well, but she still dies before him. So he's truly being left. And he doesn't know that she's died. Yeah. I always wonder about this. That's certainly what we're left with. The physicians are saying he doesn't know. Yeah. This really, really gets to me, this story, because, you know, as we said, there's

nuance to the relationship. It's not necessarily the great love story that we've seen, you know, depicted on Netflix, but there was a deep connection between the two of them. And they have these 15 children, at least, you know, 15 surviving children that are born. And that she leaves before him, but that he is unaware of it, supposedly. It's just such a sad end. Yeah. And it just gets sadder. Frederick, his son was put in charge of his care, but he doesn't, he never comes to visit. So he's like, yeah, he's overseeing, he's signing off the things, but he has no kind of, do you think that, well, do you think it's that

he can't bear to? No, I don't buy it. I don't. Yeah. Writing Frederick off. I mean, we've written George off. No, I don't buy it. You know, I really don't. Like, I don't know, he'd be perfectly fine to go and visit his father like he would. Like there's enough people there. There's enough pages. There's enough doctors. Nobody's life is going to be in danger in this level with this level of security in place. He's going to be fine. I just think, you know, we're not dealing with, despite the fact that he's a family man and often portrayed as the first royal family, this particular family, families in the royal family don't operate in the same way as we understand modern family to date. Families in the 18th

century didn't operate as we, or the early 19th century, didn't operate in the same way as we understand them today. So I think in terms of his obligations and his duty, he's actually failing in terms of what he should be doing for his father at this moment in time. Although I guess you could argue that he just sees, well actually no, I'm signing off on his care. I'm overseeing it from a distance albeit. I've done my duty. But I'm doing my duty in that sense. So yeah, but then, you know, he, he, he dies and very on the mark, you know, so often in these final days it's someone's head's head getting chopped off, someone this is happening, it's all, but no in the end.

It's a big scramble for power. Yeah. It just slips away. As so many people do, again, it's a very humanizing death for George III. And he has pneumonia when he dies. Probably the cause of his actual death is pneumonia or at least lung complications with breathing. And that's it. It's not a

big dramatic beheading. The son doesn't, you know, George the fourth doesn't smother him with a pillow in order to get the throne finally. He just slips away. And again, it's something very human in that despite the pomp and circumstance that surrounds kings, I suppose. Tell me about the funeral because we spoke earlier about the coronation and how it has all these issues and mistakes and it's a little bit humiliating and it's a sort of it's a little bit humiliating and it's a sort of rocky symbolic beginning to what is an immensely long important eventful reign. What does the funeral look like? So it's more sombre and more controlled and more dignified than the coronation. I'm glad to hear that. Hmm. It takes, he lies in state on the 15th, takes place from the 15th of Feb.

Presumably Frederick does bother to come to that. Yeah. Well, you know, you have to show up for those things. You have to be seen to be seen. And then he's buried in St. George's Chapel in Windsor Castle, which was just there the other day actually. And it's so bizarre because if you've been to St. George's, it's not very kingly. Were you just popping in to see the Royal Family? Yeah, yeah. He was there actually. But it was, yeah, it's not the most, you know when you go to Westminster Abbey you're just like, yes, this is where kings and queens are buried. But George doesn't have that for some reason at Windsor. It feels a little bit more like everyday domestic chapely almost. I mean, I'm exaggerating, obviously it's quite opulent, but it's not quite, and we'd be familiar with this from the Queen's funeral

recently. This is where that all took place. But when he's lying in state, people are queuing around the block. There are shrieks of women and children and the police, so much as they were, were trying to control this outpouring of grief. A quote from the Globe newspaper describes the funeral procession the next day. They say that, as the long array of the mourners in their sable costumes of heralds in their gaudy tabards and princes of the blood in their sad coloured mantles moved by torchlight from the principal porch of Windsor Castle to St George's

Chapel. Not very far, by the way. All right, novelistic. I know, just say the sentence for God's sake. It presented a grand and imposing spectacle. The flourish of trumpets and the sound of the muffled drums mingling with the peel of the minute guns and the tolling of the death bell added to the solemnity of the scene. Drama! That journalist was getting paid by the word. Yeah. It's starting to feel very Dickensian isn't it, even though we're a few years off from that yet, but it's starting to feel distinctly 19th century as opposed to more 18th century. Yeah, we're like a generation away from Dickens, right? At this point.

Yeah. Don't quote me on that. Someone Google it. I love that there is dignity and spectacle to it. So George the fourth becomes king after this, but we only have a decade of him. And then there's this new world we have William briefly and then we get Victoria in 1837. And this is such an interesting moment, the death and the funeral in particular of George III, because it feels like the end of an era. This has been this incredibly important reign and then we get George IV coming to the throne, but only for a decade. And then we're into nearly the Victorian era of this

William in between. But there's a sense of the long 18th century that extends into the 19th century, maybe up to 1820, maybe up to 1837, depending on your perspective. But there's a sense that that world is finished. It's a sad goodbye to a king that reigned over so much change. Paul Yeah, sorry, the only reason I'm hesitating slightly is in the back of my mind, I'm always going rather than sad, potentially it's a pathetic decline. Sarah I also wonder when I say that. The funeral is a spectacle. Paul Yeah.

Sarah But it's very written up in the press, possibly more than it was in reality. You talk about the fact that he's buried at Windsor rather than somewhere in London, for example. I know that that's the traditional resting place of monarchs, but there's something a little bit quiet about it. I wonder if there is a sense in which the world has, almost for the decade before, from 1810, his last bout of illness, if there's a way in which the world has just left George behind and moved on without him. It feels like that, doesn't it? If you think about what 1714 looked like when the Hanoverians come to the throne.

It's a huge change. Yeah, by the last real Hanoverian, because William is one, but George IV is the last Georgian king, let's say. Oh, you're going to get leftist. I know I am, I am, I am. Actually, all of a sudden nobody cares. It's just us because we're 18th centuryists and we're like, oh god, a split hares. Nobody cares about William anyway. I betcha somebody does. And good on that person, whoever that is.

Yeah, I'd love to know more about William.. I bet you somebody does and good on that person, whoever that is. I'd love to know more about William. But it's a very different world though. It's so much more modern. Of course, a lot of that has got to do with the industrial revolution that we talked about. All the actual revolutions. Which begins in George III's reign. Let's not forget.

We do think of it as a Victorian thing, but it really begins in that second half of the 18th century. So it's a different world, and as you say, I think as a result, he gets left behind because he's not able to reign in the traditional way a monarch might. And yet there was an awful lot of sympathy, yes, but I guess also love and an outpouring of grief when he did die. But there's not the same transference of power though. I think that's the thing. It doesn't But I guess also love and an outpouring of grief when he did die. Because of his father image. There's not the same transference of power, though. No, no, no.

I think that's the thing. It doesn't feel like a big moment in that way, because George IV has been the regent for the last nine years up to that point. So what do you think George's legacy should be? Ooh. Big question. Big question. For me, George's legacy is the manifestation in the truest sense of the decline of majesty. And I mean that institutionally as the concept of monarchy. I think when we're dealing with

George I and II, we're dealing with a period of adjustment and change by George the Third's reign. We've settled into this house, the Hanoverians, and we know what that is and we know what that looks like. And it is not what the stewards experienced. It is something very different, less powerful, more, it kind of feels like a relic of a different time. The monarchy I'm talking about, not necessarily George. So I think he becomes, for me, when I think about him beyond the madness, beyond the idea of America, losing America, he's a symbol, almost accidentally, of a decline of majesty. And where monarchy starts to become something that is an idea, a figurehead, head of state,

lacks power, though not influence. We're dealing with a different beast. What about you? I think for me he's, he's an amazing example of how your perspective can change depending on the history you've been taught, depending on the narrative that has been told to you. And in the pop culture that has emerged, well that was going on, the discussions that were going on in the 18th century, but certainly the pop culture version that we've got today of George from America is as a tyrant, as someone at the head of this empire that was, the machinery of it was the enslavement and exploitation of human beings. that this was someone who was greedy and unfair and unjust and wanted to rule over people who had no business ruling

over and that's all very valid. We also have George, the intellectually curious, experimenting, excited passionate man, farmer George, someone who is interested in learning, you know, he presides over what becomes known as the age of enlightenment. This term is even bandied about in the 18th century. It's very self-conscious. These are people in Britain in particular, and you know, the enlightenment happens elsewhere, of course, but in Britain, it's about progress. Progress for some, at the cost of others, let's be clear, but progress nonetheless. He presides over this moment of progress and I think he's an incredibly interesting, nuanced, complicated monarch and I think the idea we have of him as either the mad monarch or the

monarch who lost America, this tyrant, needs reassessing. I think he can be those things, he is those things, but he's other things as well. And at the end of the day, he ends up being this tragic, diminished figure. And I think it's hard to feel anything other than human empathy for him in that moment when we're face to face with the reality of his death. So there's George III and his final days and his final years, I suppose, to a certain extent. Thank you for joining us, either on the podcast or on YouTube. It's been a really interesting discussion. It's nice to sit with these topics sometimes and just take some time to kind of delve into them, especially when it's the 18th century, early 19th century, and

it's our era. It's been really nice chatting about this today. I hope you enjoyed it. That same question that we were just asking, let us know if you're watching on YouTube what your impression of George is after listening to this. Talk to us about what you think he has left the world. I'd be really interested to keep that conversation going in the comments. If you are listening as a podcast, then do leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcasts. It helps other people to discover what After Dark is all about and to keep these different conversations going. Now, we would also love to hear your ideas for different last days, final days of that we can do, but also just topics in general, because it's one of the best ways that we

can generate some of these new topics by asking you guys to let us know. So email us on afterdark at historyhit.com. That's afterdark at historyhit.com. And we shall have a look at some of those topics and hopefully do an episode on those two. Anything else to add, Maddie? Are we leaving George there for today? For today, yes. I'm desperate to do Queen Charlotte in the future. Let's do the final days of her. Yeah, there's more to be done on him, isn't there? Absolutely.

We'll do it. We'll do it. There really is. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching, and we'll see you again soon.