After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - The Many Murders of Alexander the Great

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Alexander the Great - conqueror, legend, murderer. After ascending to the throne at aged 20 in 336BCE, his rule started with mass executions and political assassinations - themes that would follow throughout his tumultuous reign. But why was Alexander's reign so bloody, and what does it tell us about Hellenistic society at the time?In today's episode Anthony and Maddy are joined by Tristan Hughes, host of History Hit's 'The Ancients'. Together they delve into the violent rule of Alexander the Great, discussing funerals riddled with assassinations, murderous brawls, and asking whether Alexander was truly dead when they started the embalming process...Discover the past with exclusive history documentaries and ad-free podcasts presented by world-renowned historians from History Hit. Watch them on your smart TV or on the go with your mobile device. Get 50% off your first 3 months with code AFTERDARK sign up now for your 14-day free trial http://access.historyhit.com/checkout/subscribe/purchase?code=afterdark&plan=monthlyYou can take part in our listener survey here.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. hello and welcome to this episode of after dark myths misdeeds and the paranormal we are doing a really special episode today we are doing a really special episode today. We are doing a crossover episode with Tristan Hughes, the presenter of The Ancients, which I'm sure you all listen to, know and love as I do. We're going to be talking about murder under Alexander the

Great. Anthony, we're both 18th century historians. I feel a little out of depth in the ancient world. Do you know who Alexander the Great is? I mean, I've heard of him he's not in my phone contacts but i've heard of him sure sure but i'm gonna defer to to tristan tristan tell us a little bit about alexander the great what do we what how would how would you sum him up on a dating profile if you had to oh and you do now right okay well first of all don't worry i haven't got him in my phone contacts either so quite elusive in that respect he is well god in a dating profile well i guess very charismatic very athletic but also on the negative side very uh as his reign goes on more and more megalomaniac paranoid and let's just say there are quite a few murders during his reign too that he orchestrates you don't want to get on his bad side. Fantastic will be the wrong word to say. He's an extraordinary figure,

a great conqueror, but also one you don't want to upset. There are red flags is what you're saying. There are quite a few red flags, yes. Yeah, there are things

there to lead on a Tinder profile and there's things to leave off, I think. Yeah, no, the megalomaniac thing, I'm going to leave that one off. Things you wouldn't want

to reveal until maybe, you know, like seventh. Yeah, I was going to say second. No, that's more generous. Second's too much. That says a lot about you, Andy. It's a while since I've been dating. That's all it says.

Okay, so he's this kind of, this figure of sort of mythical status, although he was a real person. Before he becomes the man, the myth, the legend, how does he begin? What are the origins of Alexander? The origins of Alexander. Well, the story is, I mean, the date we normally have for his birth is the 21st of July, 356 BC. So Alexander the Great, you're right, he's very much this kind of mythical figure now, because there are so many fantastical stories that now surround him. I mean, during the Middle Ages, for instance, these Arthurian stories of Alexander become medieval bestsellers.

And in a couple of stories, there's one where he goes to the bottom of the ocean in an ancient submarine, another when he develops a flying contraption and goes flying into the sky and all of that. So dissecting the actual story, the factual story of Alexander the Great from the later legend, is a challenge in itself. And sometimes we have to rely on what we see as our most accurate sources which are figures like arian who's using another figure called ptolemy who was one of alexander's companions and so on but we can get a good outline of who alexander was so going back to your question he's born in the mid 4th century bc He is a royal son. He belongs to this royal Greek family called the Temanid or the Argeid line. And they were the family that ruled a kingdom that is now in northern Greece,

the kingdom of Macedon. His father is a man called Philip II. And Philip is always the starting point when you explore any part of Alexander's story, because Philip lays the groundwork for Alexander when Alexander becomes king at the age of 20, to then go and conquer the superpower of the time, which is the massive Persian empire, which stretched from Turkey to the Indian subcontinent. What Philip does is he transforms Alexander's kingdom, the kingdom of Macedon, from this kingdom, basically a backwater in the Greek world, into becoming the dominant power on the Greek mainland. So that's Alexander's backstory. He's born into royalty, he inherits a very powerful kingdom, and then he uses it as the base from where he goes on to conquer large swathes of territory

in the Near East and beyond. So how does he come to the throne? And how does he, is it just a passing away or is it something a little bit more? No, no, no, no, no. Of course not. Of course, this is after dark. So straight away, we're in with the murders and the assassinations. I think the first thing to stress is that the whole Macedonian succession, it's not like a succession of the crown today in the United Kingdom where there is lots of pomp of pomp and ceremony but you know it's the passing of a monarch and then there's

the new monarch and it's all quite well choreographed in the macedonian succession it's always chaos and it's very much there's no settled succession if you want to succeed your dad or whoever came before you you normally have to knock off a few other rivals who are lurking about and also wanting the Macedonian kingship. So when Alexander's dad Philip came to the throne, he actually had a few other challenges to the throne that he has to defeat in battle or get others to kill on his behalf, these pretenders. And then he also spends 10 years killing three stepbrothers who he also saw as a threat. So first thing to set in stone here is that with Macedonian successions at the time of Alexander, they're always chaotic. There's always murders. It's always bloody.

And it's the same with Alexander because the first murder we come to is his dad, Philip II. He's not that old at the time. I think he's in his 40s or his 50s. He's assassinated at his daughter's wedding ceremony this is very game of thrones that's a ruined wedding i thought my wedding was rough it is he's a red wedding kind of thing isn't it but he's assassinated and the story behind this is interesting in its own right because the official story is that Philip, one of his guards, a man called Pausanias, had previously been Philip's lover. Philip had several wives, but he also had male lovers too.

And apparently, this figure Pausanias, Philip had then kind of thrown to the side, got bored of him, and then moved on to someone else. He wants revenge. And Philip doesn't give him the revenge he basically pushes it aside and pausanias is feeling greatly aggrieved and he decides right i'm going to get my own back at philip by assassinating him and so what he does in plain sight of everyone at philip's daughter's wedding ceremony in this great public theater he assassinates philip Himself by his own hand. Himself.

And he dies in the process. He tries to escape and he is killed. There is thoughts as to whether he had any accomplices and he probably did. Alexander the Great, his son, is sometimes implicated and he would have motive. I mean, it's looking suspicious, right? He's set to inherit the throne.

His father's died. Convenient? But come here, that just points to something. You just said Alexander the Great, but he must have been just Alexander the Normal at that point. He was absolutely Alexander the Bogstand Normal at that point. Alexander the may have murdered his father, may not have done. I'd say he didn't do it.

I have no proof of that. It just doesn't feel like he did. That's a bold claim. I don't know. Anyway, go on, sorry. I would actually kind didn't do it. I have no proof of that. It just doesn't feel like he did. That's a bold claim. I don't know. Anyway, go on, sorry. I would actually kind of agree with you. I don't think he does, but we can never know for sure. However, as I mentioned earlier,

there are several other figures who could have seized the throne when Philip dies. And so Alexander kind of taking action there, he can actually almost get a foot ahead of the others, which he does. And he is named the new king. Because he needs to, right? As soon as his father dies, he needs to assert himself. Yes, exactly.

So he is sometimes being seen as, was he involved to an extent in the assassination of his father? Maybe, we'll never know. There's also a theory that Alexander's mother, Olympias, Angelina Jolie, in that 2004 epic we were talking about before recording. The most important historical source, obviously. Well, there you go. She might have been involved too, but it's unclear. What Alexander does is he very much pushes any blame away from himself. And basically, to help cement himself on the throne, he blames potential rivals to his throne. Two brothers who also have royal blood in them,

a rival Macedonian noble family. Straight away, he blames those two brothers and says, you were involved with Pausanias. You were helping him murder my dad. And so you're going to die. So he really takes control of the situation and he's twisting it to his advantage, whether or not he was involved.

Absolutely. Super quick. And these two brothers, you know, they don't have much time to react. There is a third brother who's saved for now but these two brothers when it comes to philip's funeral not much later they're killed at the funeral they're basically sacrificed at the funeral basically because alexander's convinced these family events are a shit show for want of it's a real shit show i mean it's absolute chaos weddings funerals deaths galore this so now alexander

i'm still not alexander the great but he's kind of alexander the cunning at this point alexander the cunning and alexander not to be messed with straight away i mean he also because they're very religious they believe very much in like the omens and what happened the morning of philip's assassination a soothsayer had you know read the signs and oh, it's going to be a good day today. It looks great. And so he's also used as a scapegoat. So he's murdered. He's killed alongside those two brothers at Philip's funeral. The soothsayer. The soothsayer, basically because he got the omens wrong that day. He's blamed because obviously Philip died that day. So it wasn't going to be a good day. It's also his fault. So he gets murdered straight away as well.

I mean, that's so interesting as well, isn't it? I mean, we're laughing, but there's something there about, I mean, it is hilarious in, we're laughing, but there's something there about, I mean, it is hilarious in the scale of it, but there's something there about the real investment in magical thinking in the ancient world, right? And the fact that if you predict something wrongly as a soothsayer, it can be a matter of life and death and you can be blamed because you should have seen

these things coming because what you do is a real art and it has tangible impact on the world, right? So Alexander becomes king. He's not quite Alexander the Great yet. is coming because what you do is a real art and it has tangible impact on the world right so alexander becomes king he's not quite alexander the great yet how does he maintain control he's come to the throne whether or not he's involved on a route that is chaos he's had to justify it he's had to already take revenge and kind of you know deal out some quote-unquote justice so how is he going to maintain his kingship by taking out even more revenge and making of you know deal out some quote-unquote justice so how is he going to maintain his kingship by taking out even more revenge and making sure that there's no potential

challenges to his rule before he then embarks on his great campaigns in the east he needs to basically get rid of any potential threats and make sure that they are beneath the ground and quick so he gets rid of these people very quick. They're murdered, they're killed at Philip's funeral. He then decides, right, who are these other potential threats to me now that I am king? Now with the Macedonian royal family, Philip, his father, was polygamous. He had married seven different wives and so he had many different children. And the last wife that he marries was a Macedonian noblewoman called Cleopatra. So not Olympias, who gives birth to Alexander.

Now, this Cleopatra had married Philip basically just a year earlier, something like that. But what's important for this story is that her family, another noble Macedonian family, her uncle was a figure called Attalus. And where this gets tricky is that at a wedding feast, at the ceremony of that marriage to Philip and Cleopatra the year before Philip's assassination, Attalus had toasted them and basically said, with Alexander present, may you have legitimate sons. you know god bless this marriage i'm so looking forward to when you produce an heir who is going to be the next king of macedon and alexander is absolutely furious when he hears this because atlas has basically just said out loud alexander you're

illegitimate you're nowhere getting near the throne you better watch out buddy and one of the reasons behind that is because olympias alexander's, wasn't actually a Macedonian. She came from a neighbouring kingdom and was kind of derived as being this barbarian figure, even though she actually was married to Philip for diplomatic reasons. But anyway, I digress. So Attalus and Alexander don't have that very good relationship. And so when Alexander takes the kingship right after Philip's death, because he's on the scene, he's on the spot, he's proclaimed king, he gets the most important nobles in Macedon behind him and the support of the army, Attalus is nowhere in sight. He is actually the other side of the sea preparing a small army for invading the Persian

empire. But as soon as Alexander kind of settles in, he's like looking at other potential rivals and he looks straight away at Attalus. And he sends an official to go to Attalus and basically to bring him back to Macedon. And if he resists, to kill him. Attalus does resist. He gets no protection from the other figure who's leading that army and he's assassinated straight away he is murdered straight away as well so alexander didn't like him saw him as a threat he later calls atlas the greatest enemy he ever had and so he's removed straight away the last figure that he has to murder he has to get rid of before he goes east so it's quite a list but this is kind of alexander straight away he's getting through them yes good yeah good pacing he is

he is well actually before i get to that figure i must also mention astellas's niece cleopatra you know she's now a widow she basically just married philip a year earlier she's got a an infant daughter with philip she might also have a son. It's unclear. But she's murdered as well. Well, she's forced to commit suicide and her young daughter, infant daughter, is killed. It's brutal. It's probably not Alexander, this one. This is probably Alexander's mother, Olympias. But it's still another murder. All in the cause. Exactly. Well, kind of thing. And it is kind of Game of Thrones, horrific kind of levels. And then there's one more figure that Alexander removes, which is his cousin, a man called Amintas. Now Amintas actually had as strong a claim to the Macedonian throne as Alexander did. And there's this story that maybe Amintas was

urged to make a claim for the kingship by his wife, who was also Alexander the Great's elder half-sister. It's all very confusing and kind of familial and all of that. But whatever actually happened to Mintas supposedly does, he's arrested and he's killed, executed straight after as a threat to Alexander. So within a couple of years, within a year or so, suddenly you have all of these big figures, either noblemen or princes, who have been murdered or executed under charges of treason by Alexander. But that's so important for him to kind of feel safe and then going east and starting this great conquest against the Persian Empire. So in answer to your question about, you know, what he kind of does to kind of solidify, and this is kind of what he does, more and more revenge, more and more

murders, more and more kill more and more murders more and more killings to try and secure his throne to try and shore up the the family business if you think about like if you think kind of about the profile of that where you're talking about the disappearance well the murder of all of these kind of prominent figures in the course of, 12 to 18 months kind of a time after Alexander comes to succeed. If you think about it in contemporary terms, I know it's not exactly comparable, but if you can imagine well-known political figures just suddenly being taken out,

I mean, again, it's not a straight comparison time-wise, but people would know this was happening. People would have opinions on this. This isn't just some shady figure necessarily. They might be doing shady things, but they're very much public figures. And their deaths are taking place in public arenas often, right? Like at public events, at funerals, at weddings. This is very much all playing out with witnesses.

And they'll know who's doing this. People will know, well, you know, this is likely Alexander or linked to Alexander's cause. They will have an idea that he's behind this in one way or another. This is where Alexander needs the support of these other leading nobles first before he goes on doing this kind of killing spree. Because these nobles have a choice now that Alexander has been proclaimed king. Do they support the king? Or do they support this figure who the king is targeting? And when I mentioned Attalus, he loses the support of this one other figure who's with him, that other side of the sea from where Alexander is. That was his son-in-law, I believe.

Parmenion, this general, is related by marriage to Attalus. And he has a choice to make. He is like, do I kind of let this agent oflexander do i step back and let him get rid of atlas and show my loyalty to the crown but lose a relative in the process or do i protect atlas maybe try and get this small army on my side but then spark a civil war and you know absolute chaos in macedon so this is what those nobles had to kind of think about and alexander plays it well enough that i mean parmenmenion does decide to step back and he sacrifices Attalus basically. Enough of the most important nobles decide

to support Alexander rather than any of these potential rivals. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. Catherine of Aragon. Anne Boleyn. Jane Seymour.

Anne of Cleves. Catherine Howard. Catherine Parr. Six wives, six lives. I'm Professor Susanna Lipscomb, and this month on Not Just the Tudors, I'm joined by a host of experts to tell the stories of the

six queens of Henry VIII who shaped and changed England forever. Subscribe to and follow Not Just the Tudors from History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. it's such an interesting balance of like political intrigue and familial tension and how people navigate those and what they prioritize is absolutely fascinating now tristan i want to talk about, is it Philotas? Philotas, yes. Yeah, so the Philotas affair. This is where it gets extremely Game of Thrones-y, right? It does, it does.

So this is four years into Alexander's campaigning against the Persian Empire. So it's 330 BC. He's actually already conquered great centers like Babylon and Susa, Persepolis, Ecbatana. And he's now marching even further east into one day Afghanistan. He's a place called Farah, which I believe is just in Afghanistan, not Iran. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that. But basically, Alexander, there's a Macedonian, one of his soldiers, or someone we don't actually know much about his background. But we hear in a couple of our sources that there's this figure called Dimnus.

He's quite dim, actually, as well. Is that nominative determinism? A nickname? It's just called Dimnus. So it's D-Y-M-N-U-S. And he does prove quite dim in what follows. But basically, he loves this other young man who's in the army. And then he reveals to this young man and says, you've got to keep your word.

You've got to keep this secret. But I'm hatching a plot. I'm in on a plot to kill Alexander the Great. And this young male lover of his is just, I'm not too sure about this, not too sure about this. But then he pretends to say like, okay, I promise. I won't tell anyone about this at all. You know, you can trust me.

Goes straight away to his brother to say, by the way, this crazy dude here, Dymnus, like okay i promise i won't tell anyone about this at all you know you can trust me goes straight away to his brother to say by the way this crazy dude here dimness he's actually planning to murder alexander the great and you never tell a twinker secret that's all i have to say it just is not worth it you can't you can't wise words yes i've learned learn the hard way. So his brother then decides to go to the tent of Alexander, King Alexander. We won't call him Alexander the Great. We'll call him Alexander. Yeah, he's pretty great at the moment. Doing pretty well.

He's doing pretty well. Yeah, but of course, this guy is just an everyday Macedonian figure in the army. He's not one of the leading generals, so he's not going to be able to butt in and see alexander go straight into his tent he has to kind of tell this information to one of alexander's leading generals adjutants who would have been on watch and they would have relayed the information to alexander and so what happens is he approaches the tent and he sees the figure who is there on that day on duty is the man philotas so philotas is the commander of alexander's elite heavy cavalry he's a young man he's very confident he's actually portrayed being quite arrogant in the sources as well he's disliked by many of the other generals because he's too arrogant

and he pisses people off basically but he is a really important figure in alexander's army and a figure that alexander trusted and had known for many many years his father was also parmenion who we talked about earlier that other general i'll come back to that a bit later i don't want to confuse it a bit too much at the moment so the brother approaches the tent sees philotas and says philotas i've got some disturbing information here i know the plot to kill alexander and it's going to happen in a few days time and philotas is just like okay this is really really disturbing news thank you for telling me i'll go and let alexander know when i'm in the tent and chatting with him and the guy goes off he's very happy because i've

done my duty philotas is now going to tell alexander and we've now stopped this potential assassination attempt on alexander the great's life wait today nothing happens and he gets a bit concerned and so he goes back to the tent and he sees philotas again he's just like please don't don't forget what i told you okay there's this assassination attempts which is going to happen in a few days' time. We've got to act. And Philotas is like, yes, yes, I'm sorry. I couldn't tell him yesterday, but I will tell him today. I promise. And he's just like, okay, okay. And so he goes away again.

And nothing happens once again. So this is the third day now. This is like a nursery rhyme with murder. The brother's just like, hang on. I've told this guy, Philotilotas twice now about this plot and nothing has happened i've had no follow-up no announcement or anything like that he obviously hasn't told alexander and so what he does next time is that he goes to get someone else to tell alexander he doesn't tell philotas again because he's now getting suspicious of philotas if he's in on the plot so what happens is he tells someone else who is actually the guy

in charge of alexander's armory and bizarrely stumbles upon this guy then stumbles upon alexander in the bath and then goes alexander there's this assassination attempt uh you need to be worried and he tells alexander straight away and then alexander meets this brother and just like so how long ago did you hear of this plot and he was like i heard about it three days ago it's like three days why did you wait this long to tell me you must be in on a plot as well and he's just no no no i did i went to the tent i told philotas twice and he never relayed the information to you it's not looking good for philotas it's not it's not at all and basically, Alexander, he forgives this brother because, I mean, he's convinced and he was right that this brother had actually gone straight away

to tell him of this plot, but it's Philotas who had not told him. He brings Philotas in. It's a very elaborate account. I'll try and sum it up because this elaborate account is filled with speeches that almost certainly didn't happen. But I think the bare bones of it is probably true. And supposedly he then asked Philotas, you know you know Philotas I've heard that there was this assassination attempt story and you were supposed to tell me and you never did and Philotas was like yeah I did that's true but this guy seems like such an unreliable source that I didn't really want to bother with you with it and I'm sorry for not telling you but I just thought this just seemed like rumor and there wasn't much truth behind it at all so I didn't bother with telling you and basically philotas was playing and he probably

was just the negligent card he was just being a bit of an idiot and alexander at first supposedly forgives him just like okay okay i forgive you that was understandable i mean he probably was quite an unreliable source so fair enough don't do it again kind of thing the problem is is that philotas as i mentioned earlier he's very arrogant and he's not liked by the other generals the other generals then have a chat with alexander later saying alexander you can't let this slide this guy i know is important he's one of your leading subordinates but he has just deliberately and knowingly not told you about this threat on your life. He may well have been in on the conspiracy. And this gets a short story. This gets Alexander's guard up. He then decides to change his mind. For Lotash, there's a very emotive scene where he's invited to dinner the next day,

not knowing that Alexander and those other generals there had decided, basically, you're going to go on trial. And if found guilty, you're going to be executed. And then he's put in chains. There's a great trial of all of these speeches and the generals really show their true colors of basically saying that he's guilty. Alexander then decides that he's guilty as well. He's later tortured and forced to confess under torture. And then he's ultimately executed.

He does confess under torture, but I think most people probably would, right? You just want the pain to stop. So I think it's more than likely that Philotas wasn't involved in this conspiracy. But because of his negligence, and because he really annoyed these other generals, they bring him down. They want his power. They want him gone. And so he's ultimately executed, along with the actual conspirators of the plots who were also revealed so it doesn't end well for philotas i mean one of the things that strike me about this is you know we're talking about murder under alexander the great but actually it must have been the case was it not you tell me trism but like it must have

been the case that murder was almost an acceptable tool with which to rule in that this is happening so frequently and at such a high level and with such prominent figures without much repercussion i'm sure there's rumblings here and there but it seems to me that it's a tool with which he can execute his power and also that it's not it's not a question of whether or not you execute people but just who you deal that punishment out to right it's almost the calculation comes in who's gonna end up dead there's so much calculation behind it because oh if i execute this figure who has he got supporting him who is he related to if i get rid of him do i have to get rid of her and him and her and and so on and so forth and actually riff the lotus is a

great example because his dad is the all-important parmenion one of alexander's most senior generals who was then a key governor a bit further west and so what alexander ultimately does is he sends a hit squad to go and murder parmenion as well you know sins of the son is also sins the father parmenion was probably involved in this conspiracy so parmenion unknowingly you know not knowing that the last of his sons, he'd already lost two other sons fighting for Alexander, had just been murdered by Alexander. You know, you can imagine him getting the news and then straight away he's killed, he's murdered himself. So this was absolutely brutal by Alexander removing not just one of his key subordinates, but also his son too. It was absolutely gruesome.

So Alexander's faced all these threats coming to the throne. And then once he's maintaining the throne, there's people supposedly plotting against him left, right and centre. But there are also people who do protect him and save his life occasionally. They seem to be in the minority. Who is Clitus the Black? We know that he supposedly saves the life of alexander the great right good old clitus the black so clitus the black is one of alexander another kind of like parmenion

one of these older generals who had first served with his father philip and helped kind of create this macedonian empire and then is a senior general under alexander as he campaigns in the east and the story that you're alluding to is that in the first battle alexander fights against the persians he's in the thickest of the fighting and two persians attack him alexander is able to beat off the first of the persians but then he's whacked on the back of the head by the other and he's defenseless and this persian raises up his scimitar or whatever weapon he's got and he he's about to land a death blow on Alexander. And Clitus the Black on another horse rides up and cuts off the Persian's arm and saves Alexander from being killed right at that first battle.

So right at the beginning of the campaign. So Clitus, that's the story of him saving Alexander's life. And he serves with Alexander's army for several years following that until they're in modern-day Uzbekistan, ancient Marikanda. That's where they have a great feast a few years later once they've done all of this conquering. And Cleitus is still with Alexander at this time. However, he's grown more and more disillusioned with Alexander. Alexander, by this point, now thinks he's the son of a god. And yeah, he's getting that in his mind.

And he's allowing people to bow down before him almost as if he's a god as well. This kind of Persian practice, which the Macedonians hated, particularly of the older, dare I say, more conservative Macedonians. Sorry to interrupt you, but that's very interesting there that Alexander is taking on some of the traditions and cultural characteristics of the people that he is colonizing. Why is that so unpopular? Why does he choose to do that? How is it kind of imbuing him with power if it's unpopular amongst his own people? Because it is, you know, it's kind of that local kind of respect idea that the locals can do. And Alexander now believing that he is the son of a god. I mean, the Greeks hate that idea that, you know, if you're alive, that you are, you know, comparing yourself with the likes of Heracles and

so on, which Alexander was doing. This was something that Clitus the Black, you know comparing yourself with the likes of heracles and so on like which alexander was doing this was something that clitus the black you know had very much to stomach alexander didn't make his macedonians kind of do that bowing down but even them just watching others do it really annoyed them because it was against how they viewed the world they thought was quite it was sacrilegious uh sacrilege so that's made alexander not very popular with some of these figures which includes clitus the Black. To add insult to injury, this is modern-day Uzbekistan, an area called Sogdia, and it's one of the most unruly provinces of Alexander's empire. He spends a lot of time having to fight there and crush local resistance.

And ultimately, Alexander decides, I need a lot of forces up here, I need a strong garrison, and I need a really capable guy to look over this northeastern frontier of the empire and he chooses kleistis and kleistis is not happy about that he doesn't want to be stuck there this is a bad posting this is a bad really bad posting for him and so all of this kind of combines and then you have this feast that night. Lots of drinking involved. Big booze up, right? Usual part of Macedonian elite culture, these massive booze ups. And Cleitus is there. And then you have all these sycophants around Alexander,

basically lording his achievements, saying, yes, you are obviously the son of Zeus. And, oh, you've done so much more than your father ever could. I mean, forget Philip. He did barely anything you've conquered the persian empire you're great also philip as a name is kind of funny for somebody who was very powerful but anyway sorry that's beside the point apologize on behalf of after dark to all the philips i would like philip just good old phil oh sorry go on yeah sorry to phil

there yeah sorry um um but i mean with kle you know, he's had a few to drink. He's already quite annoyed because he's given this posting he didn't want. And now he's just having to listen to all of this crap, you know, of the king that he had served before Alexander and greatly respected. And he starts launching an absolute tirade against Alexander, saying, like, how can you say this? Your dad did all of this stuff when you were just a little kid and also kleiters had to save alexander in battle so he brings that

up like just stay quiet like have you not seen alexander's truck yeah we know what this is we know what this power dynamic is i think we know what's coming but yeah he does raise that thing like you know i saved your life at the granicus and now you're bowing to these sycophants you know saying that you're almost on the level of heracles and you know you take all of these honors and so on so forth it makes me sick that's kind of the stuff that kleitos is saying and he goes on deriding alexander i love this story it's written by a roman historian this particular story so it's probably absolute nonsense. But he was saying that your uncle, who was also called Alexander, confusingly, and led a campaign, a different campaign,

west into Italy and had died in Italy. But he alludes to his uncle saying, your uncle, just before he died, was saying how you campaigned against the Persians and you were just fighting against women. He went and fought in Italy and was fighting against real men kind of thing like that and that's just it's nonsense

but it's in the lute written by the Romans written by the Romans kind of stuff but basically he throws all of these insults at Alexander and Alexander's like

you bastard and he's supposedly what he says in one of the sources fantastic it's very EastEnders at this point it is kind of

but Alexander gets more and more annoyed it's actually very well done in the 2004 epic film alexander with colin farrell which is a weird choice for alexander but still um and basically one version of events has kleiters being escorted out of the room before he can say anymore but then he comes back big mistake i wanted to shout more and alexander at that point he grabs either a spear or a pike from one of the guards nearby or by his side, and he runs Clitus through.

So one of his most senior subordinates, you know, another one. Another one has just bitten the dust. So that's three senior subordinates he's killed in the space for a few years. How does this play out for Alexander? I mean, is there a reluctance to support him, to be close to him, or are people still desperate to be close to this great ruler? Oh, they to support him, to be close to him? Or are people still desperate to be close to this great ruler? Oh, they're still very desperate to be close to him because actually many people who just abide by Alexander and think, OK, I'm going to support this. I mean, just don't you dare kind of like voice big opinion like that.

Cleitus very much went over the line kind of thing. Yeah. So accept your postings and don't drink too much at the bar. Well, Alexander supposedly mourns for three days or so afterwards. It's just like, I can't believe this, because what makes this even more kind of tragic is that Clytus's sister, called Lanike, had been Alexander's wet nurse. So he supposedly mourns, just like, you know,

oh, like Lanike must, you know, back in Macedon, you know, she raised me and now how have I repaid her now that I'm an adult? I've just gone and killed and butchered her brother see that i think that intimacy is really interesting because i don't know about in the ancient world but certainly in the early modern world in europe there's a sense that wet nurses imbue the children that they're feeding with something of their own characteristics um whether it's i mean in reality it was often diseases were passed that way and you know the infant mortality rates were kind of attributed to that eventually.

But there's a sense that anxiety sometimes in like elite homes in particular, that wet nurses who were of lower classes feeding aristocratic offspring would give them something of their sort of, you know, their lower class morals or whatever it was. And it's like a real you know anxiety that people have so i don't know if that's the same in the ancient world but there's definitely an intimacy there that's kind of really broken by alexander i guess i think i think that's kind of what they want to hint at is you know it is so intimate kind of thing and that the fact that he's actually bloody done this you know it adds insult to injury kind of thing so that's why that the clouds at the back of all the murders by alexander during his reign of people over his campaigns this is the one that's always like the striking scene because it is just it's very good drama just saying that is the mother of all

hangovers as well for the next few days you're like oh lads i went too far that was too much yeah yeah so he throughout his career as king he's killing people left right and center as he used to maintain his power what happens to alexander in the end tristan what becomes well i mean we could do a whole podcast on that in its own right so basically i think the historic story and i think the most accurate story is that Alexander, through a combination of illness, maybe also grief, many war wounds that he'd suffered over the course of his campaigns, he kills over and dies after a very quick illness in Babylon in late May, early June 323 BC. It all starts once again at one of these great booze-ups, where supposedly he has a great time and then the next day has a terrible hangover. But that hangover then develops into a fever,

which gets worse and worse and worse over the next week or so ultimately leading him to become mute and then a few days after that when he's consigned to his bed you know it's all over and he dies so that story is that he just dies from illness and there's no kind of like a bad play behind the scenes however as with many things that becomes more legend a bit later and there is an added story that he is in fact poisoned yeah yeah see i think something we often come up against on this podcast is the desire by historians to diagnose illness in the past and especially causes of death but there is there's some quite gruesome details about alexander and there has been work done on this right that his

his death and what happens to his body after he's died or maybe not not so much um you know it's fascinating stuff so do you want to talk us through i know what you're alluding to yeah come on then yeah absolutely well i always find it really interesting with these scientists and people who are you know medical backgrounds who kind of look at the sources and trying to suggest what Alexander died of, because ultimately you are using either one or two lines of ancient literature to base your whole argument on. And the truth is, unless they do find his body one day mummified and in a very good state somewhere under Alexandria, or maybe in the tomb of St. Mark of Venice, who knows, then they might find out some more information about it but the story that you're alluding to is a great story basically as soon

as alexander dies there is absolute chaos right and in babylon and like it takes a week or so for this chaos to subside the army is in mutiny the generals are forced out of the city they get back in control of the mutinous army ultimately and then they have the ringleaders of that mutiny trampled to death under the hooves of elephants so it's really kind of brutal stuff more game of thrones after alexander's death and kind of why i think the aftermath is more interesting than actual alexander's story supposedly there for these generals who would then decide what's going to happen to alexander's empire they don't think about alexander's body for a whole week and a half and then they come back to alexander's body remember this is june this is babylon this is sweltering summer heat what would you expect is that unusual for the traditions of

the time as well in terms of dealing with a neglected body for that long yes especially his body well exactly and that's why i think actually this story is later fiction to come but the crux of the story is that rather than seeing a rotting corpse when they finally come back and attend his body, what they find is Alexander's body in pristine condition. And so that has led some to theorize from this one passage from one source, the Roman source, Curtius, that actually Alexander had not died on the 11th of June, 323 BC, but had in fact entered a coma or been paralyzed entered a catatonic state and so was actually still alive now i don't know the medical stuff behind that the science whether you could still be alive for a week and a half

in that kind of state but even if he was alive then he wasn't alive for much longer because in come the priests the egyptian priests and they embalm him in the egyptian manner so they take out all of his organs so even if there is any hint of truth that alexander was actually paralyzed and didn't die you know he's killed straight after quite horrifically if you think of that he's just extracting all of his organs kind of thing so um i'm gonna call it that didn't happen no like I think it's a good story, but I kind of wish it did, but there's no way they'd leave that body. No way.

Even with the chaos, there's no way with the importance of burial and everything like that and attending the dead, that someone or people didn't attend the body of Alexander and prepare it straight away. They wouldn't be washed over, whatever it is. Absolutely. Sorry to whoever came up with that theory, but you're wrong. That's the end of that.

Anthony rules it. I think that's probably all we've got time for, but Tr theory, but you're wrong. That's the end of that. Anthony rules it. I think that's probably all we've got time for. But Tristan, thank you so much. Where can people listen to The Ancients? Oh, just like with After Dark on your favourite podcast player, whether that's Spotify, Apple or another podcast player of your choice. Thank you very much for listening to After Dark today. You can follow us along and even leave a review if you've enjoyed it.

And I think the overall message from today's podcast is very much don't attend a royal wedding in the ancient world. Which I was planning to do this weekend, but now not so much. Change your plans, change them. Tristan, thank you very much. It's been an absolute delight. And we will see you all for our next episode soon. Well, a treat for you and your wallet. Well, thank you for listening to this episode of After Dark.

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