After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - The Wild Story of America's Biggest Traitor

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

Benedict Arnold was celebrated as a war hero of the American Revolution before he betrayed George Washington and the Continental Army by joining the British.In today's episode Anthony and Maddy take you through his rise and infamous plot to hand over West Point, cementing his name as history's ultimate symbol of treachery.This episode was edited by Anna Brant. Produced by Tomos Delargy and McKenna Fernandez. The senior producer was Freddy Chick.UK listeners: voting is now open for the Listener's Choice Award at this year's Podcast Awards! Click to place your vote on the Spotify mobile app: https://open.spotify.com/s/xhg6PJaSign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds.After Dark is a History Hit podcast.History Hit is part of Little Dot Studios, a Certified B Corp™Voting is now open for the Listener's Choice Award at this year's Podcast Awards. Click to place your vote on the Spotify mobile app: https://open.spotify.com/s/xhg6PJa Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello After Dark listeners. It is I, Anthony Delaney, one of your co-hosts from, of course, After Dark. Now listen, we have some good news. We have been shortlisted for the top 20 in the Listeners Choice Award category for this year's British Podcast Awards. Now, we made the top, I think it was five last year. So we are greedy historians and we want to make that top five again. This year, things are slightly different though. You can only vote for us in this long list in the Spotify app. And you'll find a link in this week's episode that'll take you to vote for us. As a matter of fact, you can vote for us three times. So if you feel so inclined, please do that. We want to make that top five. We're going to smash it this year. I think we're going to take it, he said, with absolutely no confidence. But lend us your vote and we'll see how well we get on. Heading for the top five, I know we can do it. History remembers Benedict Arnold as the ultimate traitor, a name that has become synonymous with betrayal. But how did this notorious villain once celebrated as a war hero of the American Revolution

and admired by the George Washington himself become history's most scandalous betrayer? What drove him to treacherous treason? Greed? Wounded pride? Or a genuine conviction? In this episode, we'll be exploring this man's story, the hero who became America's greatest baddie. from the heart of the tumultuous American Revolution, welcome to After Dark. Hello and welcome to After Dark, I'm Anthony.

And I'm Addie. Today we'll be discussing the dramatic story of Benedict Arnold, the man who went from being an American hero to a British spy. I'm just going to say this at the top of this episode. I hate Benedict Arnold. Oh, dear. I mean, I assume many people do because he was a tragedy. but he's, we were saying,

I'm like, he's so cringe. He's cringe. He's cringe. I can't be bothered with him. I would not have wanted to know him. No. And it's funny. We're getting at all of this,

but like the relationship between him and George Washington is interesting. Yeah, but also cringe. It's just like Benedict. Oh, no. Stop embarrassing yourself. Have a bit of class. Have a bit, yeah, have a little bit of dignity.

Like, it is embarrassing. Would you like some context for this history? Yes. I hate Veled Antonio. Well, the first context is, have you ever watched the TV show Turn? Bitch, you know I have. Love it. It's so good.

Love it. I would say it's one of those, we often talk about this, actually, accents in period dramas. And there's nothing I hate more than, this is why I won't watch The Odyssey. Don't come for me. I'm not going to go and see it. I don't care. Mom. Dad's back from the Trojan War.

That's my best American accent. But then I also go. go, well, what accent did they have? They weren't even speaking English, so crack on, you know what I mean? Totally. Yes, in that specific example, like who cares. Yeah. But I can't remember it.

But Turn does the most incredible effort, and whether it gets it right or not, I don't know. I enjoyed it. Yeah, where they sort of do early American accents, where there's a lot of like West Country voices. Yeah, a bit of Irish going in there. And I kind of, this kind of weird melting pot. And everyone has a slightly different accent because people's voices are changing at different speeds and where they've come from. And you start to get sort of local accents, but based on like whole communities

that have come over. And yeah, it's very, very interesting. So if you're the accent coach on turn, it is after Dark approved. Yeah. And also it has some of the best actors, I think, the loveliest. The yummiest, you might say. I can't remember whether I fancy. It's got Billy Elliott. What's he called?

Jamie Bell. He's a great actor. Oh, my God, I love it. He's a fantastic actor. And a short king adore. And also, JJ Fields is John Andre. we're going to get into jarndra, but heaven turns me feral with his little platte. Oh God, I hate this. But yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Anyway, some proper history coming up. We're in the 1770s. Did you know the American Revolution? In Britain, Georgia Third, famously on the throne, just a little bit of global context. So the British Empire has its colonies in America at this time, but also is expanding across the globe. The 1770s are the first. Voyagers of Captain Cook going to Australia and New Zealand. The Industrial Revolution at home has begun.

This is idea of sort of enlightenment progress. We've talked about a lot on this podcast before, that everything is being rationalised, that it's being put into categories that Britain in particular and other empires, but Britain quite specifically, has gone out into the world, discovered everything, in heavy quotation marks, put it into boxes and categories,

put it behind glass and museums, sorted. We understand everything. And then the American Revolution comes along and utterly undermines this British power and kind of gives them a reality check of like you've got too big for your boots and this is the result. Well, give us a little bit of an overview of the revolution and I'm sure people will be somewhat familiar, 1776 and all that.

Yeah, and all that. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's been the 250th anniversary. So if you're an American listener, you probably are tired. Bashed over the head with this. And I'm speaking as, you know, I'm speaking as, a Brit who focuses on British 18th century history. So this is a broad brushstrokes summary of the revolution. It's podcast.

We don't need to justify that. This isn't a tome of scholarly insight. This is just, you know, it's a chat. Oh, no, of course it is a tone. Sorry, yes. In the beginning of the 1770s, Britain has its 13 colonies. And these are, spoiler alert, going to become the first 13 states on the US of A. Have you heard of it?

Of A. The US of A. Yeah, okay. Oh my God. So the seven-year war happens in just a bit earlier. And there's a sense that Britain needs to make money to pay for its wars, its empire, its expeditions. You know, it ain't cheap. And in Captain Cook off around the world.

And so it's raising taxes in America in particular where the Americans living under British rule are British as well. our British is that would consider themselves up to this point. Come up with the famous phrase, you may have heard it, no taxation without representation. There's this sense that it's unfair, that, you know, George III is a tyrant across the water who is unfairly and unnecessarily taking money from the people living in North America

to pay for his own exploits, his own grandeur, and they're getting nothing back. I understand it, but it is a bit mad-like. It is a bit mad-like. Like it's, you can see why this happened, sure. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think George III, this might be controversial. I don't know. He's my favourite monarch.

I don't really care for monarchical history. This doesn't really do it for me. But I do think he's fascinating and I do think, and I'm looking at you, Hamilton, I do think he, yeah, yes, not the person. I do think he is slightly unfairly painted on. By Jonathan Croft. specifically yes no it's I you know

there's there's nuance here but from the American point of view in this moment it is not great George is a tyrant they want and he very much

becomes the focus of that ire in a way that he probably wouldn't have been able to be the focus in Britain because they understand the role of the monarch

in a different way than how the what the colonies are understanding yeah I mean he's a figurehead he's just a representative of Britain for the people

living in the colonies yes they're not going after the British government in terms of that sort of figurehead that he is the focus of their frustration like you say. And then we have these moments of tension that kind of crackle into violence. So we have the Boston Massacre, the Boston Tea Party. So we have, you know, shots fired.

We have these sort of, yes, the tension's bubbling over and eventually it turns into all-out war. And the Continental Army is brought into existence. the officer who's a former British officer, George Washington, becomes the general in charge of this newly founded army and the people in the colonies find themselves having to pick aside. Are they going to be patriots who back independents or are they going to be loyalists wanting British rules still? And you know, this is a really amazing moment. The colonies have been in existence for a while now but there are people moving out to them all

the time. I always think that this is such an incredible moment because whilst the American colonies under British rule have been that way for a while, if you are someone who's just moved out from somewhere else in the British Empire or specifically from Britain, and you found yourself there, and suddenly the world is upended, do you go back? Do you stay? Do you shift your allegiance? You know, this is a really, it's a tense time in which people having to search their own souls, their own political beliefs in order to find their place in this new and evolving world. it's a very dangerous time to be a spy or an informant

and there's a lot of that going on in this moment and we mentioned Turn the TV show is about exactly this it's about networks of spies as the war is going on and the Brits are clinging desperately to their colonies and the Patriots are trying to push them out so that is a bit of the context it's a strange tempestuous environment

I think it's fair to say at this moment obviously that when the war actually gets into itself. There's huge violence, there's huge loss of life, there's these big fierce battles that we're going to find our main character today

Bernard at the centre of. What side would you have picked if you were there? Oh, okay. This is going to be, I'm going to be truthful here. My instinct now is to say that I would have picked

the revolutionary side because I'm Irish and there's that whole thing going on. There's a world in which now I will say this, even the likes of John Adams, who I admire greatly, I admire his wife even more, but even those people were late converts. So, you know, you're talking about that nuance. That nuance is not even within communities, it's within individuals where they are taking time to go, oh, that's a lot of

rabble over there, I'm not sure about that. And then over the course of the, even very late into the 1770s, mid-1770s, 74, 75, even into 76, they're going, this is unsustainable now. You know, I think it's important to say as well that in Britain itself at this moment, there is debate around the monarchy, around the way that British power is set up, around the power exerts across the globe. You know, Thomas Payne, in particular, radical writer, radical thinker, you know, asking these famous questions about do we really need a monarch? What should the role of him be? and yet there is a feeling as well seeing the violence break out in the colonies that is that the right way to go

shouldn't we debate this? This is the era of Enlightenment guys should we not be calmly rationally discussing this and not shooting each other in the face but you know so I think there is nuance here and even though we're describing it as like the Patriots and the Loyalists there are already discussions happening around taxation around representation around power structures

within the British Empire and the kind of world that people want to live in that are happening before this and that continue to happen throughout this particular conflict as well. Yeah, absolutely. And this is the world in which

Benedict Arnold finds himself this very nuanced, changeable, fluid world that he finds himself within. So tell us a little bit about his background. Obviously he starts out as a subject, the king's subject to begin with. So what's his trajectory in life?

So he was born in Connecticut. Have you been to Connecticut? I have, very nice. I went once in the autumn to Yale, and I was basically Rory Gilmore for a month. Yeah, good. Now I would choose to be Laurelite Gilmore. I don't know who those people are, but that's fine.

If you're not, okay, we need to have a whole conversation once this is over. Oh, Gilmore girls. Gilmore girls, come on. I've seen it, but I know what you're talking about. I've watched it eight times. Have you actually? Yes, let's move on. So, born in Rory Gilmore's Connecticut,

Benedict Arnold, he's an American-born merchant, but of course he's a subject of the king. He's involved in shipping across the Atlantic, you know, respectable, aspirational, not necessarily a military man yet. Not transatlantic, just because you said Atlantic, not transatlantic slave trade, per se. Not to my knowledge, he's a merchant of goods. It'll be linked. It's all, you know, it's all connected. But no, to my knowledge, he's not shipping human beings who are enslaved at this moment. he does join the Patriots fairly early on though

and he joins the Continental Army just outside of Boston and you know he's he's well regarded he's intelligent he is ambitious and this is important he's also a person who just needs constant recognition he is just my God if he feels that he's been slighted a tantrum will ensue right that's that's the vibe and you know just bet that mind because that's what we're going to see again and again.

But he joins Washington's army and he rises through the ranks. He becomes a really notable figure. I'm going to give you the rundown of his military career very quickly. Yeah, because I think this is important because actually people often question Washington's loyalty to Arnold and why he sticks with him for as long as he does. But he's accomplished. He does really well. Yeah.

Well, there are some bits where it's like disaster. But. Oh, I mean, he's sort of like, there's some moments where he's. a complete dick and like it should have been court-martialed but it turns out fine so everyone's like yeah exactly yeah yeah the spin is good ultimately yeah like the outcome is fine

but getting there not great okay we find him first in 1775 I fought Taekonda Roga and this is a British fort that's being held and the content army to capture it so he's taking it well well well so Arnold is like I am in charge I'm taking this

follow me lads but there's another commander there as well who's like no we need to collab on this we can't commander of the Continental Army yeah yeah okay so on his same side same side and they're like we need to work together to take this very well protected British fort and Arnold is like

fine solo gig but I wanted to do this alone so eventually he has to kind of agree that this is going to be a collaboration they do take the fort but it severely pisses him off that he wasn't like the figurehead of this that he's not the hero of the moment. And that is going to be a running queen for Arnold.

Okay, same year, Quebec expedition. Heard of this one. Okay, so this is an expedition where he leads over a thousand men through the wilderness in attempt to capture Quebec City, which is being held by the brutes. Okay. This is, you know, really tough environment, tough weather, tough circumstances.

He loses hundreds of men. So not great militarily. But I suppose it shows you something of like his charisma as a leader that people follow him, This is, again, ambitious, kind of to the cost, to the detrimental cost of the men under him, right, as a commander that he's like, some of you may die kind of vibe. Won't be me. It might be me, like, I'm going to be fine. You say that, but during the assault, he does suffer a major injury.

His leg is shattered. It does, yeah. And this, again, is, you know, something that's kind of going to be a running theme for him. This injury does not go away. Much like Henry the 8th, it's sort of a turning point of him turning into an absolute knob. But he, so he has these, you know, these moments again, Quebec. It's not kind of great leadership, but he gets the job done. He's injured.

But he kind of spins it as this great success for him. Then we find him at Saratoga in 1777. So Saratoga, luckily for Arnold, does go really well. The Brits do surrender there. But in doing the good thing that he does, he disobeys direct. orders from the chain of command. They're like, don't attack yet. And he's like, no, no, I'm good.

I'm going, bye. What was that attack? Yeah, sure, got it. It works out for him in my notes here. So one of the producers has written, quite brave to be fair. Which is, you know, a legitimate point. But he's, again, it's this ambition. He's like, I want to be the star of the show.

I want to be right at the front in the action. Not because he's necessarily that brave. I don't think. I think it's literally that he wants this recognition. He wants people to be like, Benedict Arnold wow what a good guy

so yeah he goes ahead and he does this and he ignores the commands it works out well for him but his leg the same leg is wounded again

and so he's kind of taken out of the running in this moment he's rewarded by the chain of command because of the success but he's kind of playing a bit of an admin role now

and it's very much well they the commands say it's because of the valour that he showed because of the bravery that he did a good job at Saratoga even though he didn't follow orders but he thinks it's pity

because he's injured because he's praised basically he sees this as pity because he's injured and he can't really fight anymore so he's the sort of the grumpy sulky side of Arnold is starting to take over a little bit now you know he we've we've seen

kind of bullshit Arnold like pushing his way to the front ignoring everyone doing what he wants to get ahead. And now, because he's sort of been forced out of the fight because of his leg, he sees that he's paid a really high price, almost the ultimate price, I mean he hasn't lost his life, but he's done something for the cause. But he sees the rewards that he's getting as being kind of pity.

And it makes him really pissed off. So we have, you know, someone who is a sort of brilliant military man, albeit a sort of misadventurous one. he wants to keep going. And Washington, who has valued him as a commander, is like, you can relax now. Just go and put that leg up. You can do something else for me,

but you can't be... Without enough battle times with you. Yeah, like, just chill. We're going to go to a break, and afterwards, I'm going to tell you about the road that begins towards betrayal. Yeah, we know we're heading there. Yeah. Right, so you've set up this picture of

dissatisfaction and frustration and ego. Yet he's still firmly concentrated within the Patriot side. That is about to change. How do we get there? Okay, so we're in 1778 now. So the year after Saratoga, the Brits withdraw from Philadelphia and Washington gives the city basically to Arnold

and it's like, you're in charge. This is your city. You know, this is your nice admin role. I think that's an honour. Yeah, I mean, Philadelphia, isn't I? I'll take it. Yeah. Great.

So he becomes the military commander of the city. He's still attached to the army. This is still, you know, the situation. But he, Arnold uses this position to set up, does this sound familiar, American listeners, to set up his own business dealings.

I know, I know. And sometimes I wonder if we can be surprised about some of the religious ferocity. and some of the mechanics of business that we see so ingrained in contemporary American politics when the nation in very many ways

was founded on those very principles in terms of colonies from the British and the puritanism and that idea of religious purity and then this happens this is not just Arnold the idea of business opportunity through gaps within politics

and I just wonder why we're naive to that now because we have it here in the 1770s. Yeah, we do. I will say that when Washington's side find out, well, Washington himself, they are, he's basically Arnold is accused of corruption. People are like, sorry, you can't be the commander of this city and own all the

businesses here and be making money off everyone. There's something wrong here. But Arnold does not see the problem. Again, sound familiar. He writes to Washington in May 1779. He says, having become a cripple in the service of my country, I little expected to meet ungrateful returns. So it's basically like, I fought for you, I've been wounded for you,

I'm entitled to do whatever I want. It's wild. It's a wild opinion. And it just says so much about who this man is and his own sense of inflated importance. The other important thing that happens in Philadelphia is that he meets and marries a young woman called Peggy Shippen. I kind of hate this because sometimes I think Peggy gets, it's that like oh he was grand until the wife came along

and then she ruined it for him it used to be one of the lads and now she's boring yeah yeah she but well I think she is fascinating no no she is she is like I want to give her agency because she definitely does some stuff but I also think

rather than fault though but I don't know so wrong in anyway like yeah she's she's smarter than he is but she comes from a loyalist sympathising family so she's still living in Philadelphia after the Brits have left, but their loyalties do lie with the Brits still. And, you know, it has been claimed by historians that this is kind of the moment in which Arnold's dissatisfaction accelerates and is sort of given space in his brain and maybe articulated

potentially by Peggy and his ear. And I can see a world in which that is true, but let's not suggest that Benedict was doing a grand job before she turned up. he gets to the point where he's so pissed off with Washington and their personal relationship is really important in this. It's not just in terms of politics, in terms of the sort of military chain of command, but they were companions, friends, colleagues, and they are, they are already kind of having to butt heads in this moment. And it gets to the point where Arnold did. decides, and this is an active decision of his, that he's going to make contact with the Brits.

I mean, this is remarkable. Someone's so high up in the Patriot Continental Army command chain. This is completely mad. He gets in touch. And this is, you know, there's some suggestion this is through Peggy again. And certainly... It could well be through. That contact may well be through, Peggy.

It may well be. And, you know, in the TV show turn, there's a suggestion that, Peggy has been having a relationship with the person we're now about to talk about and that's how Arnold is introduced. And of course, that's 100% historically correct. 100% historically accurate.

But you know, I think maybe there's a world in which Peggy plays a role in this certainly. But Arnold makes contact with the British spy master John Andre, played by JJ Field, thank you very much. You would have an affair with him. Sorry, Matt. Sorry, Matt, but he'd be fine with that.

He'd be like, I understand. I can understand it's JJ Field. He has a tiny little plat and it's just so... Oh no, it's so... Okay. Moving on. So, okay, John Andre is... He's the head of British intelligence, basically.

And he's kind of legendary at this point in the war. He is, you know, really intelligent, charismatic person. He is someone who has set up these spy networks, who is kind of, you know, someone who's spinning a lot of plates. He's got a lot of fingers and a lot of pies, let's say. And also, the other person that... Arnold speaks during this moment is General Sir Henry Clinton. No relation.

If you're thinking, he might be related to Bill Clinton. He has not. Clinton isn't even Bill Clinton's surname. Really? Well, it is, but it's his stepdad surname. He wasn't born Clinton. I didn't know that. There we go.

Thank you very much for that side quest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Perfect. Okay, so Arnold, he's crossed a line that right. There's no going back from this moment. He has made contact with the Brits. So the offer that Arnold comes up with is basically that he is willing to pass information

about the Continental Army, about its movements, about how it conducts itself militarily, about its plans, blah, blah, blah, to the British. I mean, that is, this is an army that he has commanded the men of. He has taken them into battle. He has fought multiple times on their side. And now he's willing to dub them in because he feels snubbed. Am I right in thinking there's a mindset here

where Arnold's kind of going that he maybe justifies it to himself at some point by going, Well, there was a problem. But now I can see that there's a solution to the problem and maybe we don't need to go a full hog after all. Well, I think basically, you know, he's told he can't have his business interests in Philadelphia and he can't benefit from being the military commander of the city. So he's like, do you know what, I'm going to make this money elsewhere. And, you know, his offer to the British comes with the caveat that they're going to have to pay him a lot of money. He's like, I come with a high price tag.

I think millions, right? Like the equivalent of 20 million or something. He's wild. Like he literally goes in with like, this is my worth. I mean, kind of good for him, but also like what. And so, but he already starts, it's kind of haggling that takes place. And the Brits are like, oh, is this guy worth it? And the worth of Benedict Arnold, I think is really key to his history,

this idea of what is this man worth to each side. And what he thinks is worth. And what he thinks he's worth. And these things are not always the same thing. Yeah, yeah. So the kind of negotiations over his payment start, but already he is giving information about troop locations. about the strength and supply chains of the army, about how many men are where,

what's going on, what the plans are. I mean, it's disgusting. And he's given that, those pieces of information in writing, right? Mm-hmm. Because that starts to become important. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yes.

He is, I'm never writing anything down if you're going to betray people. Like, there's a paper chain that is going to come back to literally bite you on the ass. So he's doing this for at least a year from 1779. into 1780 and he you could say

what's the long term plan here Benedict are you just going to stay pretending you're in the continental army in Philadelphia

doing this the whole time at what point are you going to get caught because inevitably you're going to get caught is there an escape plan and yes there is an escape plan so he makes arrangements

and I'm kind of intrigued about how does one in this time period go about making secret arrangements to move his home and to move all of his assets, his belongings, everything to London. So his plan is to go to Britain, basically. And then, you know, that's kind of interesting as someone who's born in America, that he is going back to the motherland, a place that, you know, presumably is a merchant doing Atlantic trade. He has presumably been to

many, many times. But this is a significant move to leave the land, the place, the country, the newly formed nation that he's been fighting for behind. all the time, of course, the Continental Army think he's on their side and their plan for him because he's been wounded, because he's, you know, kind of disgraced himself in Philadelphia and caused some issues, they're keen to move him on and they're looking for somewhere to take him and they offer him the command of West Point, which is the officer training like Sandhurst is here. And it's a New York State. It's, you know, obviously really significant. It's training a new generation of Ours. officers to fight in the Continental Army. It's part of this new effort to build the United States

to America. What is it going to be? What's the value of its military going to be? You know, these, from the recruits point of view who are going to West Point, they're going to now be instructed by the great Benedict Arnold, this warrior who, you know, fought Saratoga so successfully, blah, blah, blah, injured in the name of his cause, etc. Arnold's plan, he writes in a coded letter to General Clinton, the British General, is to take West Point, to accept control of it, and then to just basically let the British take it. He's just going to open the gates for the cost of 20,000 pounds. Oh, here we go again. Yeah, he's like, here's my price tag.

I'll just leave the gate unlocked, babe. You can just come in. Crazy. But the tits are about to head upwards, and we will find out the directional motivation of those tits right after this. break. Okay, the directional motivation of the tits. Yeah, how are the tits doing at this point? Jesus Christ, what is it? What's happening? What's happened? Okay, go on.

Enter into the story again, John Andre, sexy JJ Field, the spymaster. So he goes to see Arnold and importantly he goes in disguise, he takes off his British military uniform. This is Andre. Yeah. And he goes to see Arnold.

I think at West Point, I think he actually goes into West Point or it's nearby anyway. So what Arnold does is he offers Andre the plans to West Point. Now West Point now very famously is an officer training camp school but at the time it's a British fort, previously

held British fort. And it's so important and it's going to go on to become this iconic thing in American military history and culture. But even then it's completely strategic. It's on the Hudson. It's just hugely important. And Arnold

offers it up on a plate. And Andre, this isn't great from the British spy master. Popps those plans into his boot. Just put those in there now. Good man, Benedicta just there they are in me our shoe. Yeah, grand. That is John Andre's accent of voice. It is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You talked about accent work. That's actually how JJ feels plays it in the TV show. Yeah, that's what drew me to him. You think

this is a done deal. Andre's got the plans. He's heading back to the British. On his way back, he is stopped by three militiamen from the Continental Army. And they're like, don't recognize you. It's kind of mad, isn't it? Really, when it says something about the Continental Army and these just three random militiamen take Andre. Yeah. And they obviously don't recognize exactly who he is in that moment. Like, they're literally dealing with the British spy master. And you can just imagine like the feeling in Andre's chest in this moment of like, oh. Yeah. Oh. There's what, there's no, I can't get out of the situation. Don't look in my boots. Don't look in my boot.

And of course, they do look in his boot. They search him. And they're like, oh, these are the plans to West Point. Where did you get these, babe? And he's like, oh, I just, I'm just architecturally inclined. Have you heard of Benedict Arnold? So it's, I mean, it's incredibly clear that the plans have come from Arnold. Arnold hears that Andre's been captured. And before that connection is made, though, he pops himself on a ship and he flees down the Hudson, to New York City,

which is still at this point in British held. Start spreading the news. He's singing that the whole way down. Can I just say this? One of the scenes, if you like, from this that I really enjoy is that apparently George Washington,

I hope I'm remembering this correctly because this is just memory, not research. But apparently George Washington is with Peggy when he finds out that Arnold has betrayed. And she, he's downstairs. She's upstairs with a baby, I think I remember. And the next thing he hears,

this almighty scream from upstairs. And Peggy is, this is debated, I think. She's definitely acting like she has lost the plot. And he's like, oh, poor Peggy. And then she's like, turn to camera, wink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, fuck that. I'm not staying around for this.

Well, interestingly, so in the TV show, because she is having the relationship with John Andre, she's screaming because Andre's been captured, not because Benedict's been found out to be a traitor, which is a really good, a really good twist. So, yeah, I mean, Peggy, great performance all round. Well done, Pecks. Yeah, well done Pecks.

Yeah, Washington is absolutely crushed when he hears. Because even though Arnold's been, you know, kind of a handful in recent years, they have fought together. They have, you know, this is a relationship that has lasted the entire war. Arnold is still a celebrated, decorated commander within the Continental Army. He says, Washington, that is, he's supposed to have said, Arnold has betrayed me whom can we trust now

so this is you know I kind of wish you just made that up he says that fucking egot what the hell what's he thinking this fucking I told you this person was a pain in the ass

yeah no he's I mean I'm sure he's had that too yeah yeah I'm sure he's had that too but that's the official version but you know there's a sense of like this is such a huge blow this is a celebrated hero who has turned coat and is now fighting for the British.

And not only that, but was willing to give up West Point. Like literally, you know, this kind of beacon of like future and military prowess. And, you know, it still is those things in the American military today. It's still like the peak of discipline and skill and all of that. Like, it's so aspirational. And Arnold is willing to just be like, hand it on a platter to the British. Yeah. So it's not great.

But as we say, Arnold has got away. Andre has not. Yeah, I was just about to say, we have still got Andre, which is a pretty big guess. It's huge. The British spy master. I mean,

this is a disaster. And this is where the value of certain players comes in, I think, because so Washington writes to Clinton, General Clinton, the Brit, who Arnold was dealing with. And he offers, he says, we have Andre.

You've got Arnold. Oh, let's do a swuffy swap. Let's swap. Otherwise we're going to, Kill him. Hang Andre, of course. The offer is refused by the British because Andre is, you know, Andre is, he's been so important to them. He's, but ultimately, people know who he is now.

Like, he's not secret, secret anymore. He's served his purpose. They run them out. Bernard, on the other hand, is an absolute catch for the British. You know, it's propaganda gone mad. This is an absolute coup. Look at this great continental leader. He's coming over to us.

back to the bosom of monarchy and whatever all of that so Andre poor Andre I mean he must have been thinking I've given my I've risked my life

time and time again I've given my career to this country and now I've got to go to my death for this bastard who is a traitor and is you know

see I do feel for Andre so they hang him right they hang Andre they do in October so we're okay so he's hanged and now we're on the train of Arnold.

Yeah, so Washington's not just going to let this go. So he, is this a movie? I feel like it should be if it isn't. He orders an operation to basically kidnap Arnold from New York. So he sends people into New York, British held New York City to get Arnold and bring him back. He's like, get him here and we're going to hang him. Right. And he, you know, this is, this has to happen.

However, it does not happen. So people are sent in, but Arnold changes his living. quarters before he's going to be sailing to Virginia from New York City. I don't know whether that's because he, there's wind of this operation. Or whether it's just chance. But either way, he's not captured. He gets to Virginia. He's gone.

What he does in this moment and this, I mean, this is like Arnold, literally just stop, just stop what you're doing. Shush. Fermil-Libush. Quiet. Oh, okay. International. French listeners, you're welcome.

show me she's reached the end he writes an open letter called to the inhabitants of America he's like Arnold stop yeah it's like a truth media post yeah just just yes it's one of those like

I'm sorry you felt that way kind of thing I'm sorry if I made you feel yeah I'm sorry if you felt upset when I punched you in the face he basically so he he says look

we all understand why the revolutionaries are annoyed with the British. There are issues, sure. But I was treated terribly by the Continental Army. They didn't appreciate me. I've decided to go back, as you say, to the bosom of the motherland. I'm doing a good thing. Interestingly, he doesn't mention the financial compensation he's going to be getting all the feud that he's been having with Washington and how he feels personally, you know, aggrieved about this. None of that makes into the letter. He's like, I am a great thinker and doer of this

time and I have thunk and dude and now I've made my decision and you should all follow suit and you should not hate me. It's like it's honestly so embarrassing. It's embarrassing. He is really grinned. It's like just, you've done

your betrayal. I'd nearly like on a massive scale. Yeah. I'd respect you more if you did. Just stop. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So it's really grim. So you'd think he would just disappear off to Britain then, as was his plan. But he loves a bit of attention. He loves to be celebrated.

So he continues to fight in the War of Independence, but on the British side this time. And of course they're happy to have him. You know, he is a good military man, but also he's just propaganda, right? It's like Benedict Arnold as a charge of our forces now. Washington puts out in order to say, if he's ever captured, hang him on the spot. Don't hesitate. giving a chance. Nothing.

Like no, no, no hesitation, string him up. Like, that's that. So we get then to 1781 when the war is now turning against the British. So Cornwallis surrenders at Yorktown. And, you know, the Continental Army is essentially, it's wrapping up now. Like, it's all sorted. That's my summary. The America is all sorted there.

Arnold and his family, obviously Peggy's still in tow. They leave New York for England. and he does live out the rest of his life in exile and never returns to what is now the USA and he dies in 1801 I just wonder if there is any regret there you know living out the rest of his life in Britain what did that feel like

as a man who you know was he just glad to be away from those the people he'd betrayed what would he have felt watching the new United States grow in his absence a nation, a newly formed nation the course that he fought for that he, you know, sustained multiple injuries for,

risked his life for. And now he's in Bermancy. No, I don't know where he is exactly. Somewhere in London. I don't know where he was actually. I assume he's in London. Yeah, it's funny as me, the British bit of it disappears in the popular.

Popular. I think my nephew says that. Popular imagination. It's like, yeah, once he gets to, to England, we kind of just forget about him a little bit then. It's like, oh, actually, this is the exact thing, right. So he's he's remembered for being a traitor.

He's not remembered for being a military commander on the side of the Brits, even though that's how he ends his career. Because for us, he was just a useful tool. He was just a bit of, for the Brits in the 18th century, for me specifically. You know, whereas for the Americans in that moment and

in the centuries, since he's remembered specifically for his betrayal, because it did such damage. And, you know, he's, he is kind of he appears throughout pop culture. He doesn't make it into Hamilton. Oh, yeah. But he is in, he's in turn, obviously, which we've discussed. He's also, there's a great moment.

I think it's the last season of Outlander, for any Outlander fans, where Claire is just talking to a man in a military continental camp. And one of the commanders, and she's chatting away to him. And at the end, he says, what's your name? She says, her name. And she's like, and who are you? And he says, oh, it's Arnold and Benedict Arnold. And she's sort of, you know, she's from the future.

anyone else and she's like dun, dan, da, oh my God. He sort of walks off and she says to Jamie like he's going to betray he's going to betray the Americans but you know

she doesn't try and stop it she picks up battles what she's allowed to interfere with right? Yeah, yeah yeah. It also becomes like synonymous doesn't he and interchangeable

with the word traitor Benedict Arndallon just means traitorous in a matter yeah yeah well Benjamin Franklin actually we should do an episode on Benjamin Franklin

because I think it's so interesting he's sort of obviously you know considered one of the he's one of the founding fathers, not considered. He is one of the founding fathers. But, you know, he has such a history in Britain before that point. Well, big time, yeah. I think, I think he would be interesting to look at. But he writes, quite pointedly, Judas sold only one man, Arnold, three millions.

Wow. So, you know, I think that's, that shows you the, the scale of this betrayal. He's a biblical Trasel. Biblical level Traitor here. Beyond. Beyond that. One out of ten hate him. As in like you hate him a lot? Yes. Okay.

Sorry, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So 10 out of 10. 10 for the hatred. But yes for the betrayal because it's a bit gross. But just for the ego on the man. It's the it's the like I'm worth this much money. I will do this.

It's the constant. You know, the Brits don't even, I don't think they even. I don't think they even ask for West Point he's just like, I'll give you West Point. Please love me, I'll give you a best point. And this is something so icky. I much prefer Peggy than him. Oh, Peggy's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not saying I love everything about it, but she's more interesting.

I think she's smarter as well. I think Andre's fascinating, not just because he's played by JJ Field, but you know, he's a man who takes these risks. I mean, he could have sent someone to meet Arnold. He goes personally to meet Arnold and he's captured as a result. And, you know, he goes to his death for it. So, yeah, I think he's fascinating. We should do an upset with him. There's lots of people peripheral to the story who would be much more interesting than Arnold. I hate him, the end.

Okay. Yeah, no, I think he's fascinating. I think he's, yeah, as you say, like, he's, he makes me feel things that I don't want to be feeling. Yes. You know what I mean? But again, fascinating. I like, this is my weird niche of American revolutionary history that I really enjoy. Which just comes a bit random to me where I'm just like, why am I interested in that revolution?

But I really am. Yeah. It's interesting. She's dying. I need to go and get to my be pro from from her. she is my drug dealer now and thank you for listening to Benny Arnold's

history. If there's anybody else that's on the periphery as Maddie was just saying of the American Revolutionary Movement let us know on either side actually but that doesn't necessarily get the headlines I mean I know Arnold does but... Or is your J.J. Field and you want to come on the show. That's also fine. She just wants to pick your head about your historical

interpretation of Major General Andre. Let us know after dark is that it? After Dark at HistoryHit.com Is that the email? I mean, sure. I've been doing this for three. years. It is nearly three years that we've been doing after dark. No, I have no time for celebrating. No, I do, I do.

What will we do? Let's go on a trip. Let's go to Salem. If you're at the Salem tourist board, we should wrap up down. Thank you for watching. Have a lovely time. She needs food.

I need ibuprofen. Goodbye. That was chaos.