After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - Who Killed Julius Caesar?

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

In 44 BCE, Roman senators assassinated Julius Caesar to stop his ascent towards becoming a king. Dr Jess Venner takes Anthony blow-by-blow through the deadly events of the Ides of March.Dr Jess Venner's new book The Lost Voices of Pompeii: The Final Day in Seven Lives' will be out in April.This episode was edited by Hannah Feodorov. Produced by Stuart Beckwith. The senior producer was Freddy Chick.You can now watch After Dark on Youtube! www.youtube.com/@afterdarkhistoryhitSign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Looking for more shady and sinister stories, sign up to History Hit. You can join us to explore the tragic life of the Bronties or discover the chilling story of Burke and Hair. Plus, with your History Hit subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com forward slash subscribe to start exploring the past. Julius Caesar, the soldier who dared to cross the Rubicon, champion for the common people, tyrant to Rome's elite, the man who led Rome to victory in the long, brutal Gallic wars, who crushed Rome's enemies from the Pyrenees to the Rhine, and to thrust Roman eagles across the channel into Britannia,

laying the foundations for the most famous empire in ancient history. The man who, on the aides of March, 44 BCE, walked into the Senate, passed the soothsayers' warnings, passed the rumours, and passed the uneasy silence of the men he trusted, and calmly took his place. Within minutes, Julius Caesar would lie dying, stabbed 23 times by his friends, allies and protégés. They called themselves liberators. They claimed they were saving the Republic. Instead, they unleashed civil war. This is the history of how the Romans killed their most famous ruler and lost themselves in the chaos. Welcome to After Dark.

Welcome to After Dark. Now, you may have noticed that I am riding solo at the moment because Maddie is off on a brand new adventure. She has started a new baking company and she's up to her elbows in flour and cakes. No, she's not. She's had a baby. But for the next few episodes, well, there are quite a few episodes. I am going to be going solo on After Dark. So thank you for joining me.

It's going to be a bit of an adventure and let's see how we all get on together. But we have a history today that is really going to ease us into this new temporary phase of After Dark. And it is incredibly powerful and very dramatic and what better way to start. By early 44 BCE, the future of the Roman Republic was far from certain. It's would-be king, in the eyes of some, Julius Caesar was assassinated by a group of supposedly loyal senators who claimed they were saving the Roman Republic from a return to monarchy. Instead, their blades plunged Rome into chaos, civil war and the rise of an emperor and an empire changing the course of history forever.

Now, to take us back to this momentous moment is a friend of the show, and award-winning ancient historian. Not that she's ancient. She studies the ancient past. And that is Dr. Jess Venner. Jess is, as I said, an ancient historian and archaeologist. She was also author of The Lost Voices of Pompeii, Life and Death on Pompey's Final Day, which is published on the 23rd of April, 26.

Jess, welcome to After Dark. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here in person. I know. We did it because you were all being very fancy and being in Italy. I was in Italy, yes, in the sun. Well, I don't envy the sun, as everybody on After Dark knows, I'm a creature of the shadows. But nonetheless, you were in some pretty dramatic, dramatic surroundings.

Now, before we get started on the details of this, we're going to be talking about the murder of Julius Caesar today. Yes. You may have heard of him. But I want to talk about the aides of March, because it might be interesting for some people to know, because I didn't know this until relatively recently, that the aides of March is actually a day. This is a calendar day. So give us an idea of what that day signifies in the Roman calendar. Yes. So the IIDS is the 15th.

And they had a really weird way of sorting out their calendar. They had three sort of points in the month, the Nones, the Callens and the Iids. And the Ides of March has obviously become very important to us via Shakespeare, mostly, to be honest. But this is the date that Julius Caesar was warned about. So they sort of worked their calendar around the market mostly. And they would use these points as sort of points of reference, really. Do you know what I was hoping there when you're explaining that? You were saying, oh, they had the callan and then they had the Ids.

I was hoping you were going to say they had the callan and then they had the der. And that's where we get calendar. Oh, my God. Oh, no. I didn't really thought about that. Well, it's not true. So that's why you haven't thought about it. Right.

before we come to this particular point with the murder of Julius Caesar, give us an idea about what Rome is like at this particular time in history because it is a time of flux. It's a time of high stakes. People are feeling a change. They're not necessarily delighted about that change or the idea that a change has been afoot, but also the ways in which Rome is being led. So this is a very interesting buildup. It's such a stressful time for them. The centre is a sense. The senators aren't happy at all. So the senators, of course, there are about 600 of them, or at least there is later on. And they are really, really unhappy because there are a lot of players that are starting to rise up and realize that they can take power for themselves.

And so the senators who are, you know, very wealthy people, they are very ancestral based in the sense that they can only be senators because their families are very, very old. and they hold that position in society as a result. So they think a lot of themselves. And so they've got these sort of upstarts coming through the ranks, changing things up. And this sort of starts around 133 BCE when the Grakai brothers, they really were causing a lot of chaos. They loved the people. And they started putting power back into the people's hands.

And they put more emphasis on this thing called the Tribune of the Plebs. And they were the Tribune of the Plebs. and the plebs were everybody else other than senators and, you know, the elites, basically. And so the tribunes, these two brothers, we've got Tiberius and we've got Grakus, Tiberius causes chaos to start with because he says, right, what we're going to do is we're actually going to start listening to the law. Why? Why would you do that? Right.

And he says, okay, we've ignored this law where there's 309 acres is limited to people. So what we're going to do is anyone that has anything over that? We're going to take it away. We're going to give it to the people, to the unlanded poor. And of course, the rich people hate this. They're just so annoyed by this. And so then he is murdered. He is actually murdered by, you know, the senators that are really crossed with him.

And then we've got, later on, we've got Gaius, Gaius, guys. And he... See this now. The names. The names in this. And there's a later, we'll come to it. There's a Brutus, but there's also another Brutus. And don't get this.

Brutus is mixed up. But look, I mean, that's for another day. But it's really difficult. I think for general people with an interest in this that are not necessarily trained historians, this is one of the things that catches them out sometimes. All of these names and the different ways that they have to keep track of all these people. But it builds up to this kind of epic landscape at the same time. It does. And it connects them all in these important ways. The names are very, very important. Of course, as we're saying, you know, that it gives them legitimacy if they're part of a Gens, which is a sort of family of names and a group. So that's really important. You know, like Julius Caesar was part of the Gens Yulia. And that one was quite old as well.

But it's so complicated. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. So then we've got Gaius who then does the agrarian reforms, but he's also starting to do other things that are really annoying. For example, the senators put out this seating in the forum for a gladiator show. And it's paid seating so that they get the best seats. And overnight, Gaius takes them down. So he's just niggling at them constantly. He's starting to give more power to the people. And so they're just annoyed. And then we've got other people rising up through the ranks who are starting to take, these generals who are starting to take more power into their own hands. There's a man called Gaius Marius who is incredibly important and he becomes a bit of a blueprint for Julius Caesar.

he realizes that he can give the people back more power also, and that would give him power, in the sense that he starts recruiting ordinary people into his army. Previously, you had to have land to do that. And so when he said, you don't have to do that, that's fine. And you know what, I'm going to pay you, I'm going to give you a nice little pension. I'm going to give you some land afterwards as well.

People are like, oh, my God, absolutely. But the key thing is that they're fighting for him. not for the Roman Senate anymore. And so he has loyalty. He's figured out, okay, loyalty to me is the way to get what I want, basically. And a lot of what you're describing here, well, tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me a lot of what you're describing here comes directly from the fact that there is a Republican place. And so we can, yeah, we have this lineage, which is really important.

And we see that throughout, you know, even much later republics, such as the Dutch Republic in the 17th century where lineage is still a really important part of that Republican formation. But we're now seeing people who are slightly upstartish, who are using that system that they so advocate for in the Republic to find their own place, to grab some power, to have something of their own. And as a result, there is this idea, which becomes really pertinent for Julius Caesar, there's this idea that kingship is not something we're comfortable with, despite the fact that the elites and the nobles are going, well, I'm not sure about that happening over there. That seems like a bit of a coup or whatever it might be. But I'm also not sure that I want to go back to any kind of a monarchical system. So tell us a little bit about what the attitudes towards kings and kingship is in Rome at this time.

So the word Rex, which is king, was just absolutely not. It was disgusting to them. They hated that. It was a threat to them because this is how the republic started. So there was a king who was called Tarquin the Proud. That's a terrible name. And he was really arrogant and he wasn't a nice guy at all. And wore red chinos. He definitely wore out of Rheonos. Oh, 100%. 100%.

Yeah. Ra, rah, bra, bra. Yeah. So Tarquin had a son called Sextus. Also, Sextus Tarquin is. So very confusing, we will call him Sextus. And he had taken a liking to this woman called Lucretia. Now, Lucretia was married to a man who was, you know, very important in public life at the time.

And he was on campaign, I think. Basically, he was out of the house. And this sextus goes to Lucretia's house as a guest of her husband. And in the night, he creeps to her room and assaults her. And so in the morning, she's absolutely devastated, of course, and she realizes that not only has her honour been taken away, but because of the way things worked at the time, the honour of her husband and her father had been taken away. This was a complete violation of the Roman way.

Okay. And so she tells them, she's devastated, and she takes a dagger and stabs herself in the chest. And we see this a lot in art as well. She's always depicted as doing this horrible act. And they take her body through the streets, and the people they revolt and they get rid of the monarchy. One of the people that leads this is a man called Brutus.

And he was an ancestor of another Brutus that we know very well. And so from that point on, we had the Seven Kings and the Republic is born. They start putting power into the hands of many. And one of the ways to do this is creating the consulship. So there's two people and they're elected annually. and they can only hold that for a short amount of time for a reason so that they don't become powerful in themselves. So these sorts of things are put into place

and there's a different way to manage the republic that has now been created. I love that there is such a personal and person at the heart of the birth of this republic and that it was a general outcry from the populace that made this come to pass And also that it was a woman that was at the heart of it, despite the horrific treatment and the experience that she had gone through. But it goes to show how the people had formulated this republic for themselves.

And you can therefore understand because of the emotion, because of the mass appeal, you can understand why at this moment in time, when it comes to Julius Caesar, why the idea of a republic is still so important to them. Exactly. Yes. It's their res public. And so when people like Gaius Marius or later Sulla, who I'm sure we'll talk about, start coming up through the ranks and then Caesar, they're like, oh no, you know, history is repeating itself here. We need to be careful. It's so easy to go back to this idea. And we'll talk about the idea of a dictator and what that meant in the Roman sense, because it is slightly different. You could be assigned a dictator. But it is a fear that we're going back and that we're how. having these individuals, this almost like strong man politics thing happening again, right, where someone like Julius Caesar is coming to the four. So let's push forward then. Let's come to the murder or the time leading up to the murder. And we have a sense in the days before, in the hours before, but even in the days before, of there being something building.

And, okay, a lot of this might have come after the fact in the retellings that come later. But there's this idea that there are visions coming to people, people are dreaming about things happening. We have, Julius Caesar is is now in control. He has, I believe, been offered a diadem twice and very dramatically refused it by Mark Anthony. So now we're at a point where there are hints that things might be going wrong. So take us a little bit closer to the event itself. Yeah. And again, everyone's really tense. time. You know, he's, so Caesar's causing a lot of anxiety in that he has a huge amount of power abroad. He's come back from Gaul and he's crossed the Rubicon and he's marched on Rome. And he

knew he could do that because of this Sulla. So Sulla was a general who was the first general to march on Rome because, again, the Senate were trying to take away power from him and he said, no, absolutely not. Sorry, not happening. And so he sort of set a precedent for Caesar and Caesar's now come back. And they're all aware that he's there. And you know what? He's really popular with the people because he's really magnanimous sort of charismatic leader. So he's not kingly in that sense, but he's starting to show these signs that you've said. And so it's making everyone very, very nervous. So yes, we've got the Lupercalia, which is the festival of Romulus and Remus. And a lot of nudity. Oh, God, so much. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's very, they loved that.

Anyway, on a festival, they'd just strip off and get drunk. Could never be me. I'd be like, oh my God, I was raised to Catholic. I know it doesn't exist at this time. But yeah, no, they're just, and they're totally nude and they're whipping breasts and everything. It's just bacchanalius. Yes, yes, it's another one, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. But importantly, it's associated with Romulus. And so Caesar chooses this moment, or apparently doesn't choose it. Yes, yes, yes. Come on. But Mark Anthony, like you said, offered him the crown. Naked. Mark Anthony is naked.

Sorry, I know I'm getting really hung up on the nude part of this. But he, apparently he's naked, right? When you approach to him with the diadem? Well, I think it's just like, you know, later writers being like, this is crazy. Okay, okay. They're making them look mad, I think. And that's why you're a good historian, yes. But, you know, I'd like to think that that was exactly the case.

I think we should. Yeah, no, why not? Let's just continue with that one. And so Caesar pushes this diet. them away twice and because the crowd are like, oh, you know, and then he's not getting the reaction he wants. And, and, you know, if the people don't like it, then absolutely not. And he's good at, you know, noticing that. And do you think it was a test? Do you think it was, because we don't know for certain, but there is this idea that he was testing the people to see how when he was

presented with the diadem, whether or not they were like, hooray, yeah, we can do this. Or whether they were going, exactly. Do you think that was the case, that it was a test, he was involved in this somehow? 100%. He already had the Senate over a barrel.

He basically, he ruled by violence. So he was part of this unofficial triumvirate with two others, Pompey and Krasas, and they were incredibly wealthy and incredibly powerful. He ruled by violence by basically every time he wanted to get his way,

he would have these gangs violently assault people to stop, you know, His other console had literal poo put over his head. And he just couldn't get anything done. And so he's ruling by violence. And so, yes, so the other task now is to get people on his side. And so when he has this diadem thing and they all start groaning, he's like, no.

Seriously, stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, stop. Yeah, not today. It's not working. But, you know, then other people are putting crowns on his statues. And we've talked about the tribunes and how important they are. They are the people's representative.

And he takes them out of office because they took the crowns off the statues. So he's clearly enjoying this idea of being a king. But, you know, he's trying to do it in this surreptitious sort of way. But he's kind of getting his way in every way he wants. And we should point out as well that he has, by this particular point, he has surpassed this idea of those checks and balances on power that we had spoken about before, where you could only be a consul for so long. He's now just, I think by this point,

he's dictator for life, right? They've given him this title and this position. Yeah. So the Senate start giving him all these things. And there is a theory that they started giving him all of these honours, including dictator for life, which, you know, it's important to mention that a dictator is usually chosen in a moment of crisis. And it's a very temporary measure. And they are the ones that are supposed to give that roll back. They're supposed to relinquish it as an honorable Roman man. And so he's given this this, this, honor here. And, you know, he's given a golden ivory throne to sit on. And the Senate have gone mad, basically. They're like, note to producers, I would like a golden ivory throne for future

episodes of after die. I think you need it. And a diadem, obviously. Sure. The naked Mark Anthony. No, stuff. I'm concentrating too much on this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so they're giving him all these things. And there's a theory that they were giving him these things to be like, uh, he's got too much power. It's kind of a weird tactic, I think, but you know, there could be some truth in it. So yeah, so he's getting all of these, but dictator for life is a scary one because now no one can do anything about it. Dictators can create laws, you know, and they can assign provinces. Provinces are where the, you know, the power is. So it's a scary moment. So speaking of scary moments, then, we have a soothsayer. And the soothsayer in the run up to the aides of March in

this particular moment in time says, come here to me. Now, you need to be a little bit careful because shit's going down. I think those are the exact words as they're recorded in the primary source material. And tell me what that prediction is. What does the soothsayer warn? The soothsayer says, beware the aides of March in Shakespeare. Again, we have to say this in the Shakespeare. There's a lot of quotes around this time. You know, later on, lots of of writers obviously talk about this incredibly important moment. But the main, you know, consensus is that the sooth sayer did go to him and say, you really better watch out on this specific day. And then we have all of the other portents. Yeah, so let's talk about those.

So we have his, we have Calpurnia's dream. Yes. Tell us about what she dreams about because it's very dramatic. I know. I mean, if I got dreams like that, I'd be really worried. No, I'd need to go to therapy. Oh my God. Yeah. So she had a dream the night before that he was, was bleeding profusely and I think that there was blood coming out of his statues as well. And so she goes to him and she's like, please don't go to work today. Yeah. Just don't do it. It's really not a good idea.

And obviously there's a lot of tension and stirring around Rome anyway. So it's really important that she listened to her, I think. And women have a certain way of knowing these things, particularly in Roman tradition. But, you know, he's kind of like, okay, well, you know, I think it'll, I think it'll be all right. And his friend Decomus, who's very important, and we'll talk about him later, but he comes to Caesar and he says, you have to go. You have to go. It's going to look fishy if you don't go. They're going to think that you think you're better than them.

Now, let's tell us where he's going to. So we have an idea of where they do slash don't want him to go. Yes. So the usual room that they use is out of service in the forum. Okay. So they're going to the theatre of Pompey. Now, this is an important thing because Pompey is the man we've mentioned. He has very a lot of power, right?

And he was one of Caesar's rivals. So they're going there and they're going to the Curia. And incorrectly, it sometimes said that he was in this place that I fondly refer to as Cat City in Rome, where there's a cat sanctuary there now, but it's like a little forum. Lago, Argentina in Rome. So if anyone goes there and they say, these tour guides say, oh, this is where Caesar's met, ignore them. Ah, that's when it goes.

It's not there. But importantly, he goes to this Senate house, this temporary Senate house, and he's going in, and the sooths say is there again. Oh, no. At the door, just randomly hanging out. He's at the door. Good. And he goes to Caesar, you know what?

I said. And Caesar's like, it's not happened. Yeah. We're on the Ides of March. It's not happened. And he's like, it's not over yet. Great. I feel really comfortable.

I don't know about the rest of my day. I know. And people are handing him notes and he doesn't have the time to look at them. So this is a busy crowd. Well, it's relatively crowd. There's what, like 30 or 40 people, I think, in and around. They think, something like that. He's surrounded by people.

They all want, because you can approach and advocate for yourself on an individual case. So they're coming to him with these requests, whatever it is. Surrounded by other men. One of the things that I love about this as well, which is, you know, probably afterwards, is that there have been other, in the buildup to this, there have been other sacrificial omen. So for instance, an animal that was supposed to be sacrificed was apparently found with no heart inside. And so it's like, oh God, the animal doesn't have a heart. How has it been living up until this point? But there's just this idea when it's been retold afterwards that there is

almost an inevitability to this buildup and to this one moment where this man finds himself surrounded by these people. And there's a crackle of danger in the air. His wife has had this dream. And before we get to the moment of death itself, let's talk about who some of these men that are surrounding him are. Let's stick with the key players. I'll start you with Marcus Junius Brutus.

Oh, yes. Is that I'm saying that right? Junius. Junius. Junius. There was no J. So I'd have been a Yetica, I guess. Oh, my God.

Yes. Yes, sir. Literally, yeah. So Brutus is obviously very well known now, thanks to Shakespeare's. So Brutus was one of the main people and he was, again, incredibly stressed because there's graffiti all over Rome telling him and reminding him of his ancestry. Brutus, the original Brutus, was the first person to get rid of Tarquin and the monarchy. Good man, Brutus.

We want to get rid of Tarquin. I don't know why we were just. So, yeah, we hate Tarquen for some reason. Not for some reason. For a good reason. I mean, it was his son, but yeah, no, pretty bad. So we've got Brutus and we've got Brutus. And everyone's going, you know what, Brutus?

New Brutus. Again, confusing. They're saying you really should remember your ancestry and you need to do something about this king. Because he was kind of okay with Caesar at this point, right? He had his doubts, but and Caesar was very good at this. Well, turns out he wasn't. But he had kind of pardoned a lot of people who had been against him and kept them around, probably thinking he could control them or whatever. But Brutus is one of those people

who, it seems he's convinced and who is on his side for now, at least. I think it was definitely part of him being this, you know, gracious. Magnanimous thing. Yes, exactly. He was trying to be different to Sulla, who famously created these prescriptions where everyone had money on their head. And he said, go out and kill all these people that I don't like. One of the ones. One of the of whom was Julius Caesar, by the way, who ran away because he said to him, you have to divorce your wife because she's related to Pompey. And he said, nah, I'm not doing that. So he left. So, you know, he's trying to be very different to him. And so I think he probably knew that there were these people that were annoyed with him, but there wasn't much he could do about it because

he wanted to create this image, I think. But yes, I think to an extent he probably did trust them as well. And Brutus was one of those people. Also, interestingly, Brutus was probably a bit annoyed because Caesar's favourite mistress was Brutus's mother. Wait, Caesar's favourite. Oh, okay. Yeah. So Brutus probably wasn't a great fan. This is enough of that. Yeah. Rude. Yeah. So we have him as one of these people that's milling around. We also have, watch my pronunciation here. Gaius Cassius Longinus. Longinus. Yep, exactly. Longinus, you can say, yes. The thing is we all say different things sometimes because it's Latin and we can't be completely convinced that it's right, no matter what anyone

tells you. So, yes, no, he's an experienced military commander. And again, he's sort of trusted by Caesar. He's another one that's trusted by Caesar. And he's a lesser conspirator, but he is one of the big three, definitely, yes. And importantly, he also fought against Caesar at Farsalis, which is one of the main battles that the one that Caesar defeated Pompeat. So this is like a, this is a turning point. So he was there. And that makes him kind of a legacy person for Caesar, right, for Judy Caesar, because he's, he's part of that story of how he has gotten to where he is now. So these are kind of pillars of the, not rain, but rain, I suppose. And then we have another Brutus, but middle name Brutus.

we have Decimus, Unius, Brutus, albinus. Yeah. Easy. I'll always remember that name. This is somebody who potentially was one of the more trusted. Oh, incredibly. He's the biggest traitor of all of them, which is interesting. It's not so much Brutus, the first Brutus.

Right, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, Brutus is always depicted as, you know, the Judas. But actually, it was decimus because he was in Caesar's will, even. So he was really, really trusted by him. He also fought for him in Gaul. Yeah, he wasn't like one of the ones he forgave. He was just there.

He was an actual ally, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's the one that I mentioned that went to Caesar's house and said, no, no, no, no, you've got to come today. And, you know, they were trying to get him to go because he was about to go on campaign. It's Deccanus rather than Brutus that does that. Exactly. So he was a friend.

And Caesar was like, well, it must be okay if he's saying go. I mean, surely he, you know, there's murmurings, but whatever, I'll go, because he's my friend. So yeah, it's like the ultimate, ultimate betrayal. But like I say, the senators that were the conspirators, which are about 60 of them, were really stressed in sense of getting this done because Caesar was about to leave in four days to go on campaign to Persia. And if he went and did that, they were pretty convinced that he would get it done.

And he'd basically be a king. There was nothing they could do about it at that stage. So they really were running out of time. So they were like, got to get him to this meeting. Yeah, we all hate it. work deadline and, you know, there's involved murder. Speaking of murder, let's come to the moment itself then. We have, as you described so well a few moments ago, we have Julie Caesar's walked into this room. He's surrounded by maybe, you know, 30 people, depending on your source,

it can vary. It's busy. There's a lot going on. And I think importantly, there's no bodyguard there that day, right? From what I remember. He's dismissed him. He's dismissed his bodyguard. And so the proximity of these people to Julius Caesar is probably unthinkable for us now. There's no way, you know, a prime minister or president would be allowed to be so free today and be so exposed to danger. But nonetheless, this is what we have. Take us through the beat of what happens next. Oh, it's so dramatic. And yes, like you say, we need to remember that there's lots of different accounts of this,

but they would have talked about it a hell of a lot. So we can be pretty sure what happened. Because this is one of the most documented, again, like you say, we have to be careful about there's varying and competing accounts. But in terms of some of ancient history, this is one of the most documented events, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they've survived as well. You know, so there must have been so many more people talking about this.

It was the, you know, it was like when Princess Diana died. There were different accounts of these different things. And it was a really important heartfelt moment for the people. cultural social right it was very very important for everybody and so they had to reflect on it it wasn't just because people were being murdered all the time let's be honest but this was different so he is surrounded by people it's a bit like in the houses of parliament where it's quite closed in and they're quite squashed and so they start surrounding him and so there's this guy um that comes up to him and gives him a petition about an exile i think it's his brother and um caesar refuses it he's you know he's

like, no, no. So again, he's in power here. And then somebody comes up to him and then that guy pulls at his toga. And this is the pre-arranged signal to go for it. Right? So it's really so dramatic. I know. The pulling at the toga for me, I always remember it because it's so intimate and it's so personal. It's also depriving him of respect in his position, you know, where it's like, it's quite visceral, I think. It is. Putting your hand on a person is very, you know, it's It is, and I think he said something along the lines of this is violence. Yes. Yeah.

So he's, you know, affront it. How rude. But it gets worse. So then one other senator comes up and goes for his neck. Right. So he's holding his neck and it's all, he's confused. And then they start going for him. Now when you say going for him.

Oh, my goodness. They've all got their daggers in their togas, exactly. And, you know, we think that they got them in through with the little boxes. They used to keep their writing tablets in, their wax writing tablets. Wait, so I didn't know this. They're not supposed to be armed in there. No. If that makes sense, of course, they shouldn't be.

No, yeah, yeah, but I hadn't thought about that. No, and they'd chosen lots of, they'd considered lots of different places for this to happen, you know, including at a gladiator match, for example. But the key thing was that they knew that the other senators that weren't in on the conspiracy wouldn't be armed, and so they couldn't do anything about defending him. And so they've taken their daggers in under the, you know, know, the idea that they won't be able to, there's nothing they can do. Wow.

Yeah. So the second blow hits him in the chest. This is supposed to be the one that was fatal. And then Brutus goes for him and apparently stabs him in the groin. And they say this is because he, of his, yeah, the miss. Yeah, exactly. Always comes back to mums. I was very Freudian.

And then, yeah, Caesar kept turning. He's trying to get away. And then when he sees that it's Bruton. he apparently covers his face with his toga. He's sort of defeated at that moment. So it's a really sort of sad. Yeah. Sad end to a man.

There's something quite pathetic. And I don't necessarily mean that in a, oh, that's pathetic. I mean it in like the grandiose existence that he had had and that he was building up until that point. And then there's something about the covering of the face. But at the same time, there's also something about preserving dignity in that, where he's you're not going to see my face in this situation because it's going to probably get quite gruesome and you don't need to see that.

It is at this point that he apparently says, according to Shakespeare, Etteau. But there actually is a bit of a historical source for this, even though those are not the words that he supposedly said, that he said something slightly similar, right? So he's actually supposed to have spoken Greek and said, to my child. Yeah. And some people have even started questioning,

oh, no, he can't have been his child because, you know, Sopilia was, you know, it wasn't the right timing, blah, blah, blah. I don't think that's what he meant. No, no. I think he had put a lot of emphasis into these and time into these people

and saw them as his children. This was part of his, again, a part of his magnanimous, you know, ruler. He's a, you know, a really good guy, supposedly. And again, this is being reported later. So he may or may not have said that. But I think it's a very, it's very like, it tugs at the heartstrings of it.

He sort of sees him and he's like, oh my God, it's you as well. This is really sad. But yeah, no, Shakespeare then made it into Latin. It's also just human, I think. And it's one of the reasons why the story endures so much or the history endure so much. Because it gives voice in a moment of extreme downfall. It allows, even if it's not true, it allows a glimpse into what the inner workings of this person, this great person might have been, or in the eyes of some people,

this great person might have been. And so, again, it's this idea of getting as close as possible to this idea of greatness at the moment of death. I think that fascinates people because it's such a strange moment to find oneself in. I have an image here as we do on After Dark, and it is to help to portray the scene, but it's from 1806. So we have jumped quite forward into my time period, actually. And what we have is, well, we have a very dramatic scene of senators surrounding the figure of Julius Caesar, who's half on the ground. He is wearing his, is he wearing his crown of laurels? Yes, he is. And the knives are drawn. Some of them can't look at him. That's interesting. Although some are really staring at him quite intently. But it's as if they almost can't look at the level of

power that is experiencing. Then there's others, as you mentioned, This is really interesting, that are kind of cowering away, that are not armed and they're clearly not necessarily part of this. There is also something, I'm just noticed, happening in the very back left of that image. It looks like they're having a kiss. It does look like they're having a kiss. There's one very burly man, and then just, I don't know who that is. I think it's Mark Anthony. Ah, okay.

Mark Anthony was being distracted on purpose because they knew that he would fight to the death for Caesar. this point. And so he was famously being distracted. It does look like he's being distracted in quite an interesting way. I'm sure maybe he was. I love it. Whatever is going to, whatever's going to do the distraction. That'll do it. That'll definitely do it. But it is an epic scene. It is, it's very colorful. It is. So this is from as I said 1806. How true to the actual situation do you think? I mean, obviously we can't know for sure. But from your perspective as an expert in this particular area and era, How true do you think this image might be to what happened? I actually do think this is quite good, this one.

The colour's interesting because, you know, the togas, you know, that wouldn't really happen. But I think, you know, the way that he's lying on the floor and reaching out, he's not at this point, at the point of defeat. He's not being depicted there. He's reaching out to them in sort of a plea almost. He's also at the bottom of a statue of Pompey. And again, this is like this was supposed to be exactly where he died. And, you know, the red in this is probably harking to the blood, that his bloodstained togas that were later,

toga that was later paraded around the forum and showed to the people which got them in such a frenzy. But also his blood was supposed to have stained the floor as well. So at the bottom of Pompey's statue. And obviously, again, Pompey was a, rival and you know he'd he'd seen him off so it was really really really important that he was depicted here but we've also we're seeing the chaos and the shock and the surprise and people are covering their faces and they're just completely thrown off whereas the other people I think the ones

that you know the conspirators are sort of you know they've done the blow and then they're like oh yeah yes there's a few of that going on this is big yeah yeah yeah it's almost like oh my god we've done it A feeling for the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Now, at the outset of this, we talked about there being uncertainty around kingship and this idea that we could be going back to some form of monarchy that we're really unhappy with. And this led us then to this moment where we're going, right, Julius Caesar has been murdered

in order to prevent this type of all-encompassing power in one person. So the aim is quite bizarrely absolutely not achieved. despite the fact that he is killed? Because what is the outcome of this, Jess? Yeah. So almost immediately, he's, again, given all these amazing things following his death. So as I mentioned, they take his bloodstained toga out of the house

that they were meeting in, the Senate House, or Pompey's Theatre. And they show it to the people and the people are, begin rioting because they're so devastated that this decision has been taken out of their hands, partly, but also because they've taken away a leader who actually had their best interests at heart. He is cremated in the forum. And if you go to the forum today, you can go to that spot because it was later marked with a temple for him. And he was later deified. There was a comet that went over. And that was taken a sign, you know, of Julius having ascended to the heavens. So there were lots of different things that were being given to him in the fact that he was deified is, is like the pinnacle of

those honours, you know, Augustus doing that. But it also marks the fall of the Republic. Yes. Why are we, I was forgetting that. No, no, that's fine. You're allowed to forget that. I want to know about the deification. I absolutely do.

But they had wanted to preserve this, but actually what we see is the rise of empire. Right. Exactly. I think they realized that actually it was an empire. the name of an empire. They were calling it a republic, but it really wasn't. It was getting too big. It was getting too spread out. They needed one person really to bring that all together in a way. Okay, the senators weren't going to enjoy that. But there's 600 of them. There's a lot of other people to manage. And there's been chaos for years and years and years. You know, in the East,

for example, Pompey sorted that out. But he was one person, you know, and he came back and he had a triumph and reminded them all that this is this is the result of one person being able to take that control. And no, it didn't turn out great because we know what the later emperors were like they were a pain. But Julius had shown that this was the way, really, I think. That was unavoidable at this stage. Yeah. So who sees his power next? Just so we have it in our minds, there's a whole other episode, of course, but like, who is next in line in that sense? So his air was Octavian. And he became an incredibly, incredibly good general. And he was in Caesar's will. So he ends up inheriting a huge amount of wealth, right? And there's a lot that goes on afterwards. You've got Brutus,

for example, trying that he's releasing coins with, you know, the daggers on it and the Iides of March and talking about that. But then it doesn't really go that well because everyone's like, I don't know, like it wasn't great. I didn't enjoy it. Yeah, it wasn't great. And also he's trying to take power in a way in his own way and, you know, he's trying to preserve this republic that's definitely not going to happen. Then we've got Mark Anthony trying to do that, but then he falls out with Octavian and then famously Octavian defeats him and Cleopatra. And then Octavian becomes Augustus and the first official emperor of Rome. Claiming to have restored the Republic, right? This is his kind of M.O. But obviously we're in a,

because he's Augustus, we're in a very different era of this now, which is just remarkable. Now, come here. Before we finish, we talked about the 23rd of April being a very important day in the life of Dr. Jess Venner. We have The Lost Voices of Pompeii on its way out. How are you feeling about that? And where can people find a little bit more about that book and about you if they want to pre-order? Which, of course, they will. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. I can't tell you. So, yes, the Lost Voices of Pompeii is about seven people in the city that actually lived there. I've reconstructed their days from the archaeological evidence.

So they're ordinary people, but also politicians as well. And there's all sorts going on before the eruption of Vesuvius. And yes, it's out on the 23rd of April. You can pre-order now on pretty much every good bookstore. All the, wherever you get stuff that you read or listen to or whatever. Every good book store. And also, I've just recorded the audio book. You did it.

Oh, see, now, look, that's a treat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can listen to Jess. That was great fun. Yeah, so I hope people enjoy that. And Kindle as well, of course. And if you want to hear more about it, I'm on social media as well. So I'm at Life in the Past Lane.

Great, great. Great. I was really pleased with that one. Yeah, that you got that one. Amazing. Thank you, as always, for listening and watching After Dark. If you're listening on podcast, did you know that we do have a YouTube channel? You can go over and find us on YouTube, subscribe and watch what you've been listening to for the last two years.

It was such an incredible chat, Jess, so thank you for sharing it with us. Until next time, happy watching, happy listening. We'll see you again soon. Thank you.