After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - Who Was Nostradamus?

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Did Nostradamus really predict everything from the Great Fire of London to the rise of Hitler?We predict that you'll find out in this episode...Join Anthony and Maddy as they explore the life of 16th century astrologer and so-called seer, Nostradamus, to find out if he really had the ability to see into the future.This episode was edited by Tim Artsall and produced by Stuart Beckwith. The senior producer was Freddy Chick.You can now watch After Dark on Youtube! www.youtube.com/@afterdarkhistoryhitSign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds.After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal is a History Hit podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, we're your host's Anthony Delaney and Maddie Pelling. And if you would like After Dark myths, misdeeds and the paranormal, ad-free and get early access, sign up to History Hit. With a History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries with top history presenters and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. century astronomer who is said to have somehow predicted the rise of Hitler, Napoleon, 9-11, and the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He was a man who mixed science with superstition and claimed to read the fate of kings in the movement of the stars. His cryptic verses penned in riddles and half-truths, terrified monarchs and comforted peasants. Were they really divine visions,

though, or clever poetry designed to survive the wrath of the church. From the Renaissance courts to conspiracy forums, this is After Dark. The trumpets blare, hooves, thunder, and two armored kings of chivalry lower their lances. The joust begins. The king charges, sunlight glancing off his gilded visor. But in an instant of speintered wood and shattering steel, his fate is sealed. A surgeon's scramble in courtier's panic, a name begins to be whispered on trembling lips. Nostradamus. He had predicted.

If Nostradamus could foresee the fall of a king, what other horrors might already be written in his cryptic verses? Well, hello there, and welcome to After Dark. I'm Anthony. And I'm Addie. And today we are talking about somebody you may well have heard of because he is said to have predicted some of the darkest events in human history from natural disasters to regicide. But just who was Nostradamus? us? Why has his story endured for so long? And why do we humans need to think that we are able to predict the future? I have none of the answers to those questions, but I know who does. Me neither. Goodbye at the end. It is Maddie Pelling, who is going to tell us all about Nostradas today. I feel like you're introducing me like a guest. Would you like to know a little bit about Nostradas before I run out of breath entirely? Okay, so he's born in 1503. He's born Michael de Nostradan, excellent French pronunciation. He is born to a Jewish family who have

converted to Catholicism. So he's kind of already a little bit of an outsider, which is quite interesting. And someone who is interested in, I suppose, the edges and boundaries of religious belief and where that can take you. He grows up like many a Renaissance man learning languages, mathematics, and astrology from his grandfather. Can I just say, having to learn languages, clearly. And mathematics is my worst nightmare. Leave me alone. To kind of plunk in there, the astrology, that might sound weird to people who are listening or watching on YouTube, where it's like, oh, what the hell are they doing studying astrology? But this is not that strange, given the context of the time. No, this is absolutely normal. The movement of the stars, planetary alignments,

all of that held enormous meaning for people in this period. There's efforts to kind of scientifically categorized and understand what's going on in terms of the heavens. But there is also different and sometimes wild interpretations taking place as well. So we need to bear that in mind. He was formally educated, though. He studied liberal arts at the University of Avignon, like, Solopon da Vinio. What is that, though? It's a little nursery rhyme.

Solapont da Vinya, something, something, I don't know. The words in French. Okay, wow. I've never heard of this. I clearly had a much more cultured upbringing than you. He clearly did. Oh, that's crazy. I guarantee you now there was no French lullabies being sung to me as a child.

That is categorical. And clearly this had no impact because you do speak with French and I can't speak French at all. So there we go. He later attended the University of Montpellier as well. And he graduated with a degree in medicine, which today sounds like, you know, oh, he studied all these things. He must have been kind of so busy and like super, super clever. But also this is the time of the Renaissance when you have to dip your work into everything.

You have to have a go out of everything. And I suppose there's a lot of crossover in terms of these disciplines as well. So one of the things that I was more surprised at is kind of the next phase of his life, I think, because I hadn't expected to come across the idea that he was before we know the Nostradamus that we have now, this kind of predictor of events or this kind of shaman-ish type person almost. Profit, someone's saying. He was a doctor, a faith healer. Yeah.

So there is this, you know, you said about medicine. And obviously he goes into that. A classic Renaissance man, right? That he does all this stuff. Yeah, yeah. So he has, well, he has several careers, several strings to his boat. He is involved in the printing of Almanacs. So he's an author of those.

So these are kind of popular texts that would contain like a calendar, but also astronomical data. So things about like the moon, the sun, the stars, all of that forecasts of where planets are going to move to. Which, of course, is kind of linked to divination as well, right? So there's a little bit of forecasting there. Yeah. And also he's involved in these really early printed,

works. And it suggests to me that he understands the power of getting this information out there and the power of print, actually, and spreading ideas, spreading your own agenda. So that's something to bear in mind. But he is, yeah, he's a healer. So he has some success treating plague victims in the 1530s. As a legit plague doctor? Or as a, oh, here's some thing he's always going around with a stick poking? Well, I don't think he serves as a plague doctor. I think he's like, I have the answers. The sun is in the east Pisces is down there

You can tell I don't do any astrology Question mark, question what's your birth sign Aquarius I don't know what that means but I'm just asking I'm right at the cusp of Libra and Virgo But I now count myself as a Virgo See there'll be so many people listening to this game Oh that makes sense

Of course they both are like that's yeah I don't know what it means Not a clue getting back to Nostradamus So he's treating these play victims But he's expelled from the University of Montpellier Because he's practising as an apothecary Which is seen as like a kind of manual trade He's not very intellectual.

So there's something saying, what are you doing with your medical degree if this is what you're going to be fiddling around with? Yeah, exactly. Sort of pissing around doing that. And he, so again, we have him sort of doing all these bits and poppies. He's sort of a Jack of All Trades Master of Nun kind of vibe. It's giving Crippen. Ooh, I mean, that's a little harsh.

Well, I know, but you know what I mean? Like, he was doing that. He was training, but he was also doing this kind of apothecary stuff and he was doing inventory stuff. Yeah, someone who sort of has a self-aggrandizing personality where they want to kind of be the best to everything or they want to be noticed and all these different feels and things. Anyway, yeah, it's interesting.

Yeah, yeah. It's also during this period that he loses his first wife and his children to the plague. And I think it's interesting, you know, when you think about his focus later on on this idea of fate and if there's any control that we can possibly have over what happens in our lives

and the big scheme of human history. And of course, that's going to become the thing that he's remembered for, right, these prophecies. So I think that is an interesting point to carry on. So he's been kicked out of the university. His family are dead. He doesn't really have any ties anywhere. And he starts to become a little bit controversial. Like I say, he's worked as an apothecary. And he now sets off on some travels, question mark. These are a little bit vague. We don't really know. He's travelling all over France all over Europe at this time.

It's interesting because you're talking about this person who has gone to a really recognised university who is potentially training in an up-and-coming trade. And was on the path to becoming a respectable renaissance figure. And yet there is this grey area around the edges of, why are you meddling with healing over there? What are you doing as an apothecary? What are you doing with the plague? We don't know for sure about the Inquisition as far as I remember,

but it's a potential that he was being pursued by them. So even they're going, what are you doing in terms of your belief systems? Are you adhering to the prescribed belief systems? And also sort of rejecting institutionalising. power in this moment for interacting with the people, which is, again, interesting when you think about the prophecies and who are you giving power to if you can tell the future. It kind of disrupts the power balance a little bit. So yeah, the Inquisition do become involved and

want to question slash torture him. So he goes on the run. This is around sort of 1538. So we've had the plague in the early 1530s and now we're in 1538. They're accusing him of heresy for specifically criticising the craftsmanship of a religious statue. So... Oh, my God. I know, I know, right? Can you imagine? That statue's that foot too big.

Right, off of your head. Oh, I don't like how they did Ronaldo's face in that statue. No, you're dead. You're dead. You're dead. Heresy, you're dead. So, which... Hey, I know the name of a footballer just to say, Ronaldo.

Was he the one? Nostradamus didn't lie. No, no, I don't know about it. There was a bad statue of him. Yeah, there was. Yeah, well done. He is on the run. And during this time, he basically takes a side step away from the education that he's had before. And he becomes really interested in the occult, more so into astrology and herbalism as well. So alternative things, even for this period. When you said heresy, I was like, oh, this is why. But no, it was because of a statue. But I was assuming it was because of what you're talking about now. It must have been right. I think the criticism of a religious statue is, you know, by extension, a criticism of the church. It's just, something they can nail him for. They want him

for these things that he's getting involved in. But he outruns them, he leaves Provence and he travels through Italy, Greece, Turkey, and the whole time he's meeting people, he's gathering knowledge. He is building his own profession of his own making for the first time. You know, he's not,

these are now not just sort of disparate bits that he's randomly experimenting with. He's creating and tailoring his own world around him. He's branding himself. Yeah, and of course getting followers as he does. as well. He would have been huge on social media.

Oh my God, huge. I'm trying to think of like what his videos would be like. It's like on TikTok when you see people going, oh, here's, they do card reading. And it's like, if you're seeing this on the 14th of March, then this is for you specifically. And it's just like there's 146 likes on it, four, six thousand likes on it's like, how specific is it really? But yeah, yeah, he'd be doing stuff like that. He would so be doing. Okay, yeah, he absolutely would.

Yeah, yeah. He'd be like, if you look at your window now and it's raining, this is for you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. so eventually he does settle in a place called Salon in France and he marries again a woman called Anne Possart Gamel Gamel, Gamel, Jemel, and they have six children together

so he's busy during this period. But, you know, he's had this kind of terrible loss in one place and now presumably the Inquisition of Given Up looking for him. Just got bored. Or maybe he's just hidden really well, but he started this new life. And it's around this time that he kind of recalls the power of print. Don't forget, he used to print those almanacs early on his career. and he decides to write a book called Le Profite or The Prophecese

I'm really nailing the French today. You're looking at me like, Jesus Christ. No, no, no, no, I'm just laughing because I can see the fear in your face before you go. It's just like, don't make me do right. This is giving GCSE French. It's so stressful. Basically, as he's been travelling around, he has been giving little prophecies out. And these aren't like the first world war will begin in 1914.

These are like, it will rain next Tuesday. And then it does rain in people like, oh, my God. But you live in Ireland. So there's no surprise. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. This is now an escalation of that, and he sets down his prophecies. And these are becoming, these are not, it's going to rain next Tuesday now.

These are, you know, more serious things. And he writes them down. Okay, so just before you go on, this is when these famous prophecies start. Exactly. And the thing that makes me, I mean, look, I'm not buying into it and saying, oh, my God, he could read the future. But the, full enough. But the thing that makes me kind of laugh about this is that he, writes them all as four-line poems,

which says, I suppose, a lot about his training, his education, and his desire to insert himself into a learned space still. He's a legitimacy. Well, it feels like he's trying to bring a legitimacy. Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. And to kind of, you know, people will take the prophecies seriously if they are measured and, yes, yes, yes. Totally.

So he sets the four-line poems out in sets of 100. which he calls centuries. Oh, yeah, I did. Which I think is kind of interesting. And this isn't necessarily, this is what will happen in this century, that's not it. But this is just the way that he organises them. The first edition that he prints contains three centuries and 53 quatrains. So 353, four-line poems.

Okay. Which is a lot. And also, who could be bothered to write 350-four-line poems? And here we are in 2025 still. Like, there's no way he could have thought of the impact, actually, that he has. Do you think? Because I think he absolutely would. I think if he was here now, he'd be like, well, of course, you're still talking about them.

Because look how great I was. I think there's an ego, definitely. So, as you can imagine, these have become incredibly popular, very, very quick. So we get the second edition in, is also published in 1555. Then we get another edition again in 1557, a fourth edition in 1568. This is... Big news. And, like, obviously, this is the 16th century.

Things are getting printed, but not. on the scale they are, even in the 18th century, you know. So this is, this is a serious success. When the fourth version is published in 1568, he has been dead for two years at that point. Oh, he's gone. Yeah, he's gone. Yeah. And at that point, the fourth edition contains 942 poems. Oh, stop it. Yeah. So that first, it's not like he's adapting the first, he keeps going. Yeah, he keeps going. Oh, I thought it was just like reprints. No, he's adding all the time. Yeah, he's reprinting the originals. But every time he's like, there's more. Actually, I had another dream. Can you imagine being he's editor like.

Could you imagine me his wife? Oh my God. I got to listen to because there is nothing. No, she'd be like out of the six kids. Like you do your little poems.

I hate when people tell you their dreams. It's the most boring thing. It's like, but that didn't happen. So it's like what do you waste some time for? Don't time for this shit. Do you feel like he dreamed? No, I don't know how he had his prophecy. Well, he made them up.

But like it just, that's kind of whatever, but just don't talk to me about your dreams. Oh, the other thing as well, to say about these poems is they're written in a mixture of French, Greek, Latin, and Ossetan, which is like, again, who can be bothered? But legitimising again, right? Exactly, exactly, exactly.

Would you like to hear some of the predictions? I've never heard an actual Nostradraim's prediction. Oh my God. Okay, so we're going to play a little game. Cue the jingle. Okay, so the way that this game is going to work, Anthony Delaney. I'm really bad at games. Okay, go.

It's okay. I think you'll be right with this one. I'm going to read you the four-line poem. Yeah. And you're going to guess what event in history, and the whole of history it's predicting. No, I'm bad. I'm bad at guessing games.

I'm really bad, but I want to do this. Okay. Poem number one. I'm going to talk as you're talking, so I'm working out loud. And also don't peek on your notes. No, I'm not. The answers are on your notes. Okay, okay, okay.

I promise you, I won't. Okay, you're never going to get there. Oh, I don't know. The blood of the just will commit a fault at London. Burnt through lightning of 23s, the 6. What? 23's the 6? Yeah, weird.

The ancient lady will fall from her heart. high place. Several of the same sect will be killed. Okay, I'm not going to spend too long in each of these because I could do a whole podcast. But let's just break it down a line by like, give me a line one again? The blood of the just will commit a fault at London. No idea. Give me a line two. Burnt. Okay. Yeah. So when you said burn and London was in the previous line, I'm just thinking Great Fire. Yeah. But then you said lightning. So that has nothing got to do with Great Fire. Well, people have read it as the prediction of the Great Fire of London in 1666. Correct. Bonus point to Antony.

Except that is not a prediction of the Great Fire. Well, exactly. And this is the thing that so many of these predictions are so vague. I also said something about blood. Like, okay, the Great Fire London One is particularly bloody. What are the last two lines? The ancient lady will fall from her high place. Several of the same sect will be killed.

Ancient lady. Yeah, what? I mean, realistically, that could be something like falling off the roof of St. Paul's or something, I guess. You could... Yeah, you could kind of compare it to that, couldn't you? Yeah. But this is the thing, like they're all so loose and so non-specific that you can mould them and people absolutely have moulded them.

That is not a prediction of the Great Fire of London. Okay, fine. This one, I think you might have more of a chance with. But I got that one. You know, to be fair, I won't strip you of your points. You did get that one. Okay. Number two.

Songs, chance and demands will come from the enslaved, held captive by the nobility in their prisons. At a later date, brainless idiots will take. these as divine utterances. Okay, so I initially always liked something about the Transatlantic slave tribe, but it's not that. Uh-uh. Because you said nobility specifically. And prisons. So, nobility, prisons and slaves.

I'll give you a clue. This is our century. 18th century. French Revolution. Yes, correct. That's loose. I think this is a good one. So you've got, obviously, the enslaved here referring to like the downtrodden of France.

Yeah, but they're not enslaved. They're not technically enslaved, held captive by the nobility in their prisons. thinking about the Bastille, you know, fine. At a later date, brainless idiots will take these as divine utterances. You could kind of read that as the terror that comes later, maybe, I suppose, and the chaos and the kind of thuggery of all of that. And then maybe the following too. She could read it as anything.

You really could. But French Revolution, 1789, my friend. Nice. Go on, anyway. It's still not convinced. No, my God, Nostroatu. This one, I think this is quite good. From the depths of the west of Europe, a young child will be born

of poor people. He who by his tongue will seduce a great troop, his fame will increase towards the realm of the East. I know this because I've heard it before, being applied to Hitler. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And you can see why that, again, there is nothing specific in there. But the specificity of like a young child born to poor people, he who by his tongue will seduce a great troop. Like, somewhat charismatic, born to the lower classes. who is going to rise through the rise. There's a lot of examples of that. Exactly. But that is what people associate it with with Hitler. This last one. Oh, there's another one. Oh, my God. Okay. There's one more. We're going to be here all night. No, there's last one. I don't know if you'll get

this one because this is really vague. Hey, I've done well so far. You've done really well, but I think this is going to be a bit too random for you. Okay. Because you don't ever think about this century. So, you know, it's one we refuse, well, you refuse to cover on after dance. It's a century. Yeah. Oh, okay. The ancient task will be completed. From on high, evil will fall on the great man.

A dead innocent will be accused of the deed. The guilty will remain in the mist. I actually think I know what this is. Oh, God, go on. The middle is the key bit, maybe. As in like an innocent man thingy. Yeah, potentially. Yeah.

Well, yeah. Depending on your conspiracy theory. Is it JFK? It is the assassination of JFK. That is the best I have ever done. in a quiz ever. Well, dude. Oh my God. I didn't have to study for. I think that's a vague one, but actually, when you apply it to JFK, it's quite compelling. With the middle, I think it's absolute bullshit. But with the middle of it, I went, oh, that's that. Lee Harvey Oswald,

being accused, but not really being innocent. But then, as you say, that leads into conspiracy theories, which of course, predictions leading into conspiracy theories, leading into the secrets that are around us that were being, you know, it all kinds of feeds into this monster. And you can see where there's a link between Nostradamus and conspiracies on the internet now. And of course, conspiracies now feed so much into the right, particularly in American political culture. And you can absolutely see that thread through history. Do you know where I first became aware of Nostradamus? And it's a really weird place. I guess it's not, though, but 9-11. That's when I first became aware of Nostradamus because there was talk that

he had predicted this catastrophe. Yeah. And so therefore, I mean, there's told that he's predicted every single catastrophe, right? Maybe that's the first one I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that it was a catastrophe unfolding in real time as well. So it was sort of more absorbent to that kind of discourse. Do you want to know a fun fact, talking about people's sort of modern belief, modern, sort of buying into this.

In 1999, the French designer Paco Raban, who was a reader of Nostradamus, quite a fan. So questionable and all that these predictions are in our time, and we are, you know, 400 years on from when these predictions are being made. Were there things that were happening in the 16th century that people were like, he's got it? There were. There was one particular. Was there, though?

There was, and he was correct, and everything should be believed. No, so during his strange and rambling life, this varied life that he had, varied career, he came under the patronage of Catherine de Medici, which we should so do an episode on her, because she was really into the occult, and obviously she's this huge kind of powerful figure and someone who is very manipulative

and good at political plot or two. So she brought him into the fold, and she was very interested in what he had to say. And one of the things that he had to say was a prediction about her husband, Henry II of France. And the prediction was that he would die in a josting accident. Now, I'm not sure what the original prediction is the four lines. Show me that quatrain. And he would fall off a mighty beast and be stuck with a stick. No, that's too specific.

That'd be good. I'd be like, fair enough. What would it be like? The tree of death on the battlefield of sports. something completely random. But how does Henry II of France die, Anthony? I'm thinking jousting. Correct. So you work well for that. Yeah. And so she's sold on this. She's like, wow. But she's quite, from what I remember correctly about, she's that way inclined anyway, right? She would be willing to believe this. Absolutely. Yeah. She's open to the power of suggestion, let's say.

That's kind of one that is remembered during his lifetime as being, you know, the thing that seals his legitimacy. see. But as I said previously, he dies in July 1566, so two years before the final, the fourth edition of his prophecies is published. Now, this makes me laugh. He dies from heart failure, which is brought on from complications with gout, so not well. And also potentially living quite a bougie lifestyle if he's got gout. You know, he's... Well, he's at the court, isn't he? He's at Medici's court. Exactly. He's got a taste of the fine life. The night before he dies, he dies the next day. He makes his final prediction. He says, tomorrow, I will be no more. That should never happen. Yeah, but also, like, even if he did, what a safe bet. Or like, I'm dying. He could be like those grannies. You know the way when you, well, both of my grannies are dead now. But like one of them in particular, she'd always be like, if I even live that long. And I'd be like, oh my God. Classic granny banter that. It was that kind of thing. Granted, when she did, she wasn't saying that at all, but like, you know, for 20 years before she actually did, it was like, Jesus, Lizzie.

Yeah, and a brilliant way to like absolutely guilt trip everyone, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I might be dead soon. So he dies. Now, he's buried, he's put to rest. Everything is fine. How could there be any more to this story? What are you going to say?

So there is a little bit of an afterlife of his body or a mythological afterlife. So there is a story that in the French Revolution, which obviously he predicted, There are some French revolutionary soldiers who become obsessed. Have you heard this? They become obsessed with this idea that if they drink from his skull, they will be able to tell the future. And obviously, you know, why wouldn't you want to tell the future during the French Revolution? Or drink out of a skull.

That too. The world has turned upside down. You might as well drink out of a skull. Was it Byron who used to drink out of a skull on a regular basis, I think? That's the kind of classic thing he would do. It was probably the skull of like one of his many conquered love interest. He'd scattered aside. So the story goes that they dig up.

his body and on his body is a little plaque that he was buried with saying the date in the 18th century that he would be dug up and they're like, what? Oh my God. Never happened. Never happened. He said not being there, but like, no, don't be ridiculous. I'd love for that to be true. So would I, and the image of somebody drinking from somebody's skull, 200 year old, 250 year old school or whatever it is, is compelling. Compelling. And it's very narratively interesting. And again, particularly in that moment of the revolution when everything is chaos, everything is violence, everything is bloody and gory. Yeah, I can see it, but yeah, it's, he's just a chancer, right? And fair enough, like, actually, more needs to be done.

Actually, your book is kind of, in a way, looking at that, in that it's like the history of chancers. Like, the history of people who are going, here, we'll give this a go and see how far down the road we get. Anthony has been given an early copy of my book. I have got it yesterday. There will be tests on this now. Yeah, it will be tests, not just reading, actual. I'd be texting you every day like, how's chapter one? How's chapter two? What did you think at the end of chapter three? Imagine I'm just like, Maddie, it's shit. It's not. Pre-order

it nice. Do you think that Nostradamus has a little bit of gender and class privilege in that this is a time when witchcraft accusations and witchcraft trials are booming? And the church is very interested in heresy. Yes, he is wanted by the Inquisition at some point, but he does end up in the court of Catherine de Medici. Is this because he's an educated man? Would a woman making these predictions have got so far? Would she have survived? Well, my first reaction to it was, especially in Central Europe, there are actually plenty of men that are being arrested and for witchcraft. So that sense, no, but that doesn't mean gender's not coming into it because when you said, would a woman be able to do this? I still don't think so. I don't think she would end up

at the court of Catherine DeMich. No, no. And a woman of a higher class than those who were generally, though not always, not by any stretch, always convicted of witchcraft, probably is not going to play that game in the same way at this time. It wasn't the courtly thing for women to do, so there are other ways that women can gain influence of power at court.

So yeah, actually, initially when you said it, I was like, maybe not, but. But now on reflection, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's an interesting figure, and I think we've got the actual life, the publications that is interesting in and of itself. But I think his legacy is fascinating. And the way that we are still talking about him, we're still wanting to mould those

predictions to... Have we had anything recently? More recent than 9-11? Probably. That he's said to have predicted. It'll also be really tragic as well. Did he predict Brexit? Probably. Trump, the rise of Trump, maybe? Guarantee you that. Yeah. I bet if you looked through all, what was it, 900 and something. You could apply to anything. So, yeah, he's predicted, he's predicted this podcast probably. Oh my God. You heard it here. Virgo and Aquarius.

I'll rise from the ashes of... Yeah, that's the shocking. Tell me this, have you ever had your personal future told? Yes. So for my like 20th birthday or something, last five years ago, I'm doing the maths right now. I had a tarot card reader at the party that just sat in the corner and read everyone's cards. And we were all very into it because we were 20 years.

and whatever else and we thought that it was all happening. I would love to have a tarot reader come on and do that for us because we've always

wanted to do an episode on taro we have to do that we're looking through the glass at producer Freddy Freddy's like what he's screaming

at me for us we have to do a live tarot everyone's putting their thumbs up and saying yes we'll do some history too

and it's not just for us to have that that's a great idea it's probably the best idea I've ever had well I am a genius I also used to

have a violin teacher when this is why This is when I was not studying French, clearly. And his mom used to tell fortunes. And I remember him telling me about palm reading. And he said that the left-hand side is the fate that you're born with. And your right-hand palm changes throughout your life when your left doesn't. Because it's the fate you make for yourself.

That's true, though. I mean, I don't know. Also, the lighting is so low in here, I can't see. I can see some lines. I did also have, when I was thinking of doing the PhD, I went to a tarot card reader because my friend made me go. And said, should I do a PhD? And I said, should I do a PhD?

And she said, yes, you'll end up on a podcast. He said, you need to make sure that you do a PhD. That you have to do the PhD. And now look at me. I don't believe in any of that kind of stuff, though. But I would so have it done. For someone who doesn't believe in it, you've been to several. She took me.

Amy Jean took me. Okay. So it was her. Yeah. I did believe in it when I was 20, to be fair. Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've come a long way.

Thanks. You're an old sceptic now. Yeah, I'm not even a middle-aged skeptic just yet. No, not yet. This has been fun. Well, if this is what you call fun, but sure. Oh, wow. I'm joking.

It has been fun. I do, no, but I do think, and there was a time when I was really like, I would probably imagine that this is all very true. Now is not that time. But that's interesting that you had that moment. Yeah, but doesn't everyone have that moment in their like early, late teens, early 20s. I think there's something about tarot that really attracts the gaze of those and, you know, everyone

else. It's that kind of, I don't know, an alternative way to see the world and an alternative system of belief. That comes from being powerless. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And it offers you some control.

Order. Yeah. So I can see the appeal 100%. Did you not? I was definitely interested in taro. I don't know if I ever believed it, but I was very interested. I do have a deck. home. Do you? Yeah, we'll get it out occasionally. Have a little look. I know people who do

And then have to Google what the card means. I know people who do their own cards every day, just as a kind of a reflective practice rather than as a prediction thing. Yes. Yes. So I've heard this a lot that it's very good for just kind of being in touch with your own self and your own feelings and like, where am I at? Here are some prompts and I'm going to think about what's going on in my life. But I'm doing the thinking. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And I combine into that. That's the system I combine to it. I think it's a useful tool. Just reflection, right? Yeah, exactly.

Anyway, save it for the tarot episodes. I feel like this has now turned into like one of those self-healing, like, you know, podcast things. We all be hearing all kinds of spiritual advice. We need to do some like tarot ASMR or something. Just be me doing the heavy breathing the whole way through. We should probably wrap up this episode now. Do you want to do it or do you want to do it?

Oh, you do it. I've run out of breath. Listen, Nostradamus was a chancer and he did some very good chancing in the 16. century, but we don't need to live our lives by his predictions. And the next time something awful happens on the news, within a week you will hear other people talk about some random quatrain that he has talked about that has nothing got to do with that terrible thing, but people will say it has. And you don't need to believe them, because that's what history is here to tell you. Thank you for watching along if you're watching on YouTube or listening,

if you're listening on the podcast. I very much enjoyed this. Nice fun learning little project. If you listening to the podcast leave us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts if you're watching on youtube chat in the comments below and we will see all of your comments and our producers will i'm getting a vision people are leaving five-star reviews as we speak thank you very much goodbye i don't trust her at all