After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal - Would You Rather Be On The Titanic Or In Pompeii?

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

Sound the trumpets! The day has finally arrived: Maddy Pelling is back on After Dark!To welcome her back into the coven, we're playing a game of historical 'Would You Rather?'. Listen on to hear Anthony and Maddy decide between the many awful scenarios in history they would rather find themselves in.If you've also asked yourself, 'Would you rather be a 17th century plague doctor or an 19th century body snatcher?', then you've come to the right place.This episode was edited by Anna Brant. The producer was Stuart Beckwith. Senior Producer is Freddy Chick.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to After Dark. I am Anthony. And I am Maddie. I'm back. Heidi Belling has finished her groundbreaking, world trekking and universe changing. Mm-hmm. Where have I been? Because Maddie is currently collecting samples of the Andes samples of what nobody knows,

As you may know by now, Maddie is exploring the deepest depths of the Amazon jungle. Maddie is currently trying to discover the best smoking method for preserving cheeses, and that's what she's doing with her time. Maddie is off this week after discovering the lost treasure of El Dorado. She is completing a trans-Antarctic expedition with a crew of sled dogs, and we wish her well. I know everybody is sad that Maddie isn't here, but it's because she's going to be a guest judge on Rupal Drag Race Day.

She is. Of course, I'm not joined by Maddie because she is currently trying to investigate the inclusion of fluorite for Key Stage 1 children all across the north of England. Maddie has been in the Andes discovering a new civilisation of people that has hitherto for being unknown to us. That's just, that's Maddie all over. That's right. So as you just heard, she's back from her numerous countless and I don't remember what adventures. So I'm glad that you had all of those things cut in there. But it's the one and only Dr. Maddie Pallane.

She's back in the studio. This is day one. It is. You've had a baby. I'm very tired. And now you're here. I'm here. I'm back.

Welcome back. Hi. How is baby? He is very well, thank you. Yes, he is five and a half months now, which is crazy. But yeah, it's a wild experience. I was thinking about this on the train on the way in, and I remember texting you like a couple of days after he was.

was born, you were like, how's it going? And I remember saying, like, it's beautiful and brutal. And I think that's the best way to describe it. So do you know what? Just solidarity and a massive salute to anyone out there who's a parent because it's bloody hard work. So, yeah. He's a wise little man.

He's a genius. He's a prodigy. He's the best baby who's ever lived. He's quite like, centered in himself. Now, look, I don't have to do the night time freaking out things. Every two hours, Anthony. Every two hours. But he's got.

the face of a wise person. And he looks like Matt. Yes, he does. He looks like my husband, which is so annoying when you grow the child, give birth to it, present it to the world and everyone's like, oh, it looks like the dad. He's just like him, though, isn't he? Scream. It's really that thing where you like.

No, he really is. He's literally, yeah. You look really like your dad, too. Yeah. Also, they are today, both of them walking around London because he won't take a bottle, the baby, not my husband. So he's coming back and forth, and they are dressed exactly the same for accident in matching outfits. This wasn't intentional, but they're literally twins out there in the world somewhere. So

yeah, by the time people hear this, it'll be in the past. But if you're walking around on, what is this? The second of July, you see a beautiful man with a beautiful little baby and they're just the same. They belong to me. Minnie and large, they are in the same outfit. Now I want to know what the outfits are. Because like, in my head of imagining that they're dressed as firemen or something, but that's ridiculous. They'll just let it go. They probably just have nice tops on. Right. Right. To celebrate your being off and you being back, this is just going to be a bit of a crack episode. So if this is the first time that you're encountering after dark, this might be a strange episode. But if this is, this is to ease us all back into the old way of doing things. And you had an

idea, which is when I saw this in the briefing notes, I was like, this is ridiculous. Can I just say that you say there's some structures this episode. I feel so giddy to be back and I actually can't remember what to do. So this is a good episode to do that on then. Sure. Because we'll relert, because I mean, please. This is, this is chaos episode. So. Also, if you're watching on YouTube, just please be aware that I have been demoted since being away to a piece of paper. Anthony has an iPad for his script. As you can hear on Mike. You have to earn your way back on.

That's what happens when women go on maternity leave. Obviously, it's a, yeah. They do not come back to the same job, Maddo you want to do. They do. Set a mouthful there, sister. They may cut that bit out. We're joking, obviously. Okay.

History here has been very supportive. Just to add that on. Just to officially say. Right. We're going to do quizzes today. And it's going to, well, there's a few different quizzes that we're going to walk our way through. The first one is, this is Maddie's idea and I love it, is this historical event longer than Maddie's 37 hour labor?

37 hours. Can I just say, I remember, I text you not knowing that you were in labor and you were like, I'm in labor. So Anthony literally texts me being like, here's a question about work, like about the pod of something. You were like, what is the answer to this? And I think producer Tom from our team as well Also send me a message again bless him not knowing Because you went early So we'd recorded the week before

Yeah yeah The baby came early And I remember Tom messaged me and was like Could you just record a little intro For an episode we did And I remember texting him back And being like I'm currently in labour I could yeah I don't think I could get through the whole centre

You should have done it Oh my God I would have paid for that Welcome to the after dog Oh my God I want that to happen now But I remember you text me and I was like Not now, babe. And I was like, oh my God, what the hell? I was walking the dogs in Dublin somewhere.

And I was like, she's in labour, it's in labour. But I think that was super early. And I was like, the baby's coming any minute. Little, did I know. No, it wasn't any minute. Yeah, 37 hours. 37 hours. That was a good segue.

See, you can still do it. Made a lasagna from scratch whilst that was happening. Because we were at home for most of it, and then I had to go to hospital at the end, blah, blah. I'm fine now. But, yeah, he literally was like, this is an appropriate time to make a lasagna. Yeah. What?

Wild. Literally from scratch. It was great, although I did throw... You ate this? Yeah, I ate it because I was so hungry. I was in labor for 37 hours. But I was sick afterwards. Yeah.

Not great. Anyway, less of the gore. I don't know what to do for that. Women in labor eat. Yeah. Oh, you need to. You need to constantly eat. Most of the time it's just contractions.

Well, I had contractions every two minutes for literally about 37 hours. It was wild. It was a wild experience. I feel like Anthony needs to be. therapy. I'd taste it down by the smell of the meat being cooked yeah it wasn't great I'll tell you I'll tell you off mic how that went oh my gosh she shut me no she did okay just to clarify no people do Maddie yeah well again off mic we'll we'll go over the details right are these stark events long do you know the answer to these they are in front of me

yeah although I so I suggested this right well I'm not going to look then I'm genuinely surprised. Okay, yes. You, okay, yeah, I'm doing this quiz. Let's do it this way. This is not what we had planned, but there we go. Okay. So is this historical event longer or shorter than my 37 hour labor. Great Fire of London. 1666. I know the answer to that. Great Fire of London is longer than 37 hours. Have a guess how long it is. Okay. Okay. So we know that, okay, I'm going to say two and a half to three days for the Great Fire of London. What's that? 48. 50. Maths is math. Fifty five. Five. Five. Five. Five. 60 hours for the Great Bar of London? 96 hours. I was wrong. Yeah. But that is, yeah. How many days?

Four days. Four days. Yeah. What did I say? Two and a half. Yeah. Okay. Four days.

Yeah, no, because we've just read it enough times, haven't we? We've still got it wrong. I mean, I'm sure someone's been in labour for that long. Oh, God, I'm sure they have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I salute you.

So anyway, so the Great Fire of London was longer than your life. Okay. Second up. Battle of Trafalgar, 1805. Oh, shit. Me. I don't know. Okay.

Sorry, he's taking a drink. Battle of Trafalgar. Okay, so, hmm, this is, I see it as epic, obviously, because it's... In which we discover Anthony has no concept of how long a battle takes. Well, no, literally that, because I was writing something recently, and I was like, oh my God, it's this big, it's this big battle, it's gone down in the popular imagination, it's shaped... Four years. And it was like, oh, it's over by the afternoon. Yeah.

Because that's how battles kind of work. I was like, oh, I had imagined it as this, you know, 10 day long thing. But actually, they're not in most cases. Okay. So Battle of Trafalgar, the Battle of Trafalgar itself as opposed to the, okay. Okay, it's going to be hours as opposed to days, I think. Yes, correct. Battle of Trafalgar.

You're 37. Yeah. They're, Battle of Trafalgar. Okay, I think it's going to be short. I was going to say seven hours. You are dragging this out. Give me an answer. Sorry. Yes.

We have a total episode out of this, Maddie. Six hours. Five. I'm going to give you that. I'm going to give you that point. Are we doing points? Someone's keeping score. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How many hours did you say five? Five hours. Yeah. So it started at midday. Majority of the fighting was over by 5 p.m.

Hey, that's good timing. You get to have a lion. Because you can all go home. At the end and have your team. Unless you have been blown apart. or yeah, unless you're Nelson. Yes. Essentially.

Okay. Jane Seymour's Labour with Prince Edward Tudor 1537. Okay, I'm so sorry. I heard Jane Seymour and I thought Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman. Now, that's obviously

because I do that TV show with her. I was like, I don't know how long she was in labour with her children for. Okay, so no, give me that again, sorry. Who? Jane Seymour, but the Queen. Jane Seymour,

not the actress, the Queen. Oh, yeah. In Labour with Prince Edward Tudor. Henry the A's heir. Oh, Edward. the seventh, well, sixth, sixth. Jesus, I have no idea. Okay, I'll guess.

That was her, I don't, I literally, this is, this is Slav in the Dark, 12 hours? 30 hours. So I can totally simplify this with that, although I will say, didn't go very well for her. There was no modern medicine, she did die. I was going to say, no, but, oh yeah, but she died after every infection, didn't she? You can tell where to historians. Come here. Now, how long is the average labour pregnancy?

I know the answer to that. Well, do we? Do we know how long the average pregnancy is? I think it's closer to 10 months and nine now, which is crazy. Because it's that 40-weeky thing. Yeah, yeah, but my baby did come very early. Not very early. He was safe, but it was over.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I was one day over the cut off for him being premature. Oh. He literally held on. Yeah, crazy. So I was allowed to do it home. Anyway, what was your question? Do we know what the average?

I think it's how long is a piece of string? I mean, some people, I'm sure, just sneeze and the baby pops right out. But I don't know what the longest. Not quite a sneeze, but it was traumatic, though, because she was in the car. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, yeah, no, she wasn't ready. One of those people. Okay, no, that's not good.

No, I think generally it's longer with your first one. Because your body's never done it before. And then I think it's easier with the second one. Obviously not for everyone, but I imagine that that is the case for the majority of people. But let me tell you, I wouldn't want to do 37 hours again. Oh, God. No, thank you. No.

Not good. Did not know what time of day it was, who I was. Was absolutely off my face on gas and air. I'd like eight canisters of gas and air. I don't know how much that is, but I'm guessing it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. I'm imagining you now in labour, hanging out with kids in the park doing those air canisters.

Yes, just that was me on a swing. Maybe I don't know much about pregnancy, Maddie. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I remember, so I had to get an ambulance to hospital. It was very chill. I don't. No, I didn't know.

But I didn't know. It was so. So high at this point. And I remember literally chatting to the ambulance crew. And they were obviously like, getting the ambulance, you need to go to hospital. And I'm like, I'm like, ha, the last time I was in the hospital was the time my husband I had putted at a university. The story I've told that about the bus.

So I told everyone in the ambulance. Perfect. I was like, clearly you're not after dark listening. So I can tell this story. Did you actually say that? And then we were going on blue lights to the hospital. And I was like, line there. And I said to someone, who's this for?

I was like, I really think we should pull over and, like, let that ambulance go past. And they were like, babe, you're in, you're in the ambulance. It's you. Like, just chill. But yes. Anyway, it was fine. Off your tits.

Off my tits. Yeah, gas and air. Wild. Poor Jane Seymour didn't have gas in air. Which was the whole. 30 hours without, presumably any real pain relief. I would imagine, nonetheless, that Dr. Quinn Medicine woman, I'll ask her. I'll text her after this.

Text her now in a minute, actually. I'll give you a update. How long was her life during your pregnancies, Jane? See what she says. My God. Okay. next one. Now this is surprising. The trial of Mariantoinette. 1793. Oves. I've just recorded something about this.

Oh God. We're going to talk about the time though. I know. Well, I know it was a predetermined thing. As in like they came in pretty much knowing we're going to take the head off. So I'm imagining it's not going on that long. Oh. Okay. I think. So there's the incesty bit that comes in. You've got to think about the sort of, it's something they're subjected to, isn't it? Like she's there for quite a while being interrogated, being humiliated. So, take yes. Oh, but during the job.

Okay. Yeah, two days. The entire trial. 20 hours. Okay. But consecutive hours, which is tiring. Now, would you prefer to go through your 27-hour labor or go through interrogation for 20 hours non-stop as Marie-Internet? It's maroon internet.

I mean, I think the gas and air option is probably preferable. Yes, that's usually what I was thinking. I think I would prefer to go through the 37 hours of labour. Don't come from me. I don't know what labour is like.

But equally, 20 hours consecutive interrogation. I mean, it wouldn't be the, you wouldn't be in physical distress necessarily. I'm sure she was very like stressed out by it, but you wouldn't be in pain. But. Jesus, I'd be in pain.

She would... She would... She would... She would... sore from sitting. Okay, wow. Wind your neck in right now. Cancelled.

Okay. Last one. You'll be glad to know in this quiz that we have been keeping this careful score of. The embalming of a pharaoh in ancient Egypt. Oh, that was long. Yeah, so have a guess. We're talking days.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to say 76 hours based on absolutely nothing, but I know it's days. Oh, it's way long. It's 70 days. Yeah. Who could be asked with that? I don't have the time.

I've got stuff to do. 70 days. So it says here, the embalman spent the first 40 days drying out the body. So that alone, which I don't really know. Can you include that in the embalming process? I don't think so. It is part of the embalming process, but you're not there actively doing anything. But then for 30 days you are treating the skin, wrapping the body, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, just dismissing that ancient process.

Yeah, 70 days in total. I think you'd be dead if you're in labour for those. Yeah, you would. I was going to say if I had to choose between 37-hour labour or 70 days embalming, I'd do the embalming for 70 days. I'm going to choose that. Except it's going to be warm. And you know how I... Yes.

It was not warm when I gave birth. Thank God. It was January, which was like, shoured. People who are heavily pregnant now are giving birth in these heat waves because what the hell? It's mad. Yeah, I ended up on the labour ward eventually when I went to hospital after the baby was born. And oh my God, it was hot in the sun and that was in January. deathly, vile experience.

I mean, maternity care in this country needs to be fixed. It's crazy. That's a whole other podcast. But yeah, hot in the sun. Awful, awful, awful. I love the way your conclusion is hot in the sun.

Hotter than the sun, yeah. Oh, hotter than the sun. Okay, I thought you said, the sun is quite hot, guys, just in case you didn't know. I've come back on the podcast to tell you guys. This is the only information I have to import. Oh, Maddie, isn't it awful at them?

We're in heat wave or whatever. Well, we're sort of in between them now, aren't we? There's another one coming. I'm not coping with Well now granted I was in Ireland For the bad one

And now that I live in Yorkshire It was cooler But it was still heat wavy Oh it's been awful in London I'm just not Thank God I'm not in London Yeah I literally put my dogs And baby in the car

And drove north to my parents' house Did you? On holiday and I was like I'm gonna live in your house While you're away But you was that was a text You said it was miserable It was a bit cooler

But yeah the baby just wouldn't sleep Yeah It was oh my God Yes babies and heat waves Not good No Oh my God Right I am going to take over now

Okay, you're in charge. Because this has... Well, that's great because it's my time for a nap now. Yeah, yeah. Good night. Oh my gosh. This is the first episode of a two-day recording thing. She's done.

Literally let me sleep, please. Listen, you've been doing tours up and down. Like, you've been busy. You've been getting it all in. I don't know how. Don't ever do a book tour with a newborn baby. Just don't do it. Do you know what?

You only need to tell me that once. Yeah. Just no. Next book I have out, no babies, please. No, no. We'll not be doing that. Go on. Okay.

Historical would you rather. I've been doing this on my Instagram and now we're doing it here in the thingy-ma-jiggy. Would you rather be, I haven't, would you rather be a 17th century plague doctor

or an 18th or 19th century body snatcher? I know your answer to this. I think I know your answer to this. I'm going to say a body snatcher. I knew you'd say that. Because I don't like being around sick people. No, thank you. I don't want to catch your plague.

Like, don't sneeze near me. If someone sneezes near me on the tube, I'm like, get off this tube now. Cover your face. Why you hear? Stay at home. You're going to deal really well with toddler when he's a toddler. Oh my God.

Yeah. All that's not. The other day I picked him up and I was like jiggling over me and then he puked and I had my mouth over and he puked into my mouth. Maddie, fuck off. Don't bring that shit to my door. Literally. That's disgusting.

This is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. That's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. I know. He's cute. I know. He's so cute.

But I don't want to be vomited into my mouth. by another person, even my own child. It's not good. Anyway, okay, body snatching. Yes, I would rather be a body snatcher because you can make a bit of money from it. Also, there's like the fun of surviving the graveyard. You've got to get past the guard with a pistol.

You've got to not do the trip wires where the musket shoots in the face, all of that. Yeah, it's a game show. It's a little bit of fun. Then you've got to put them in a wheelbarrow and take them down some cobbles in Edinburgh. Oh, we're specifically only being grave robbers in Edinburgh. It's fair.

If I'm going to do it, I'm doing it properly, okay? I'm going to the capital of grave robbing. No, plague doctor's not for me. Boring, everyone's dying, it's miserable. No, I want to have a bit of fun. And Maddie's idea of fun is digging up their bodies. I agree with you. I agree with you.

I am not going around in that mask. I'm not doing it. Too warm. Thank you. Well, also, do you not remember the internet's reaction to when you, you did wear him ass like that. That was weird. That was just people who liked leather.

Yeah. But that's fine. You can like leather. I just, I'm just not going to. It's just not going to. I'm just not going to wear it. He's a gentle cardigan man.

This is far more my line. Now, yes, I see, and I, everything, that picture you painted. And also like, they're dead already. I know it's a bit disrespectful. By a bit, I mean, quite a lot. The moral line is blurred. Wow. But like, I'm going to, I'm going to, the only thing I wouldn't really want to do is any of the digging or any of the pulling up.

But I'll go for the crack. So if you do that. Wow. So I'm doing the heavy lifting. I'll go on the lookout. I mean, that's so, that's so what would happen. Is that all right? Yes, but I'm not trusting you to be on lookout.

No offense. You'd be like, you'd find your reflection or something. You'd be like, just going to, just going to fix some stuff. And I'd be like, Anthony. There's no offense taken to that. Yeah. I'd be like, we're being shot out and you'd be like, oh, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, run then. How do you do something? I don't know. I'd be like, did you bring the pistol?

No. Did I bring the pistol? No. I thought you were bringing the pistol. For goodness sake, who's got the pistol? Maybe we should be plague doctors. This is terrible. I mean, we, you think it's disgusting when the baby's sick. Admittedly in my mouth. I don't think you're going to survive looking after people would play. Yeah, no, it's not so much just the baby being sick. That happened. But the baby being sick in your mouth. I realized on the way here, by the way, I am actually covered in babysick. There is baby sick on my shoulder. Yeah. Covering up my hair. It's glamorous. I'm going to ask you something. I can't ask you that on the podcast. I'll ask you later. Okay. Would you rather be a wealthy man on board the Titanic or a

wealthy man in Pompeii? I know my answer to this. I mean, being a wealthy man in any of history is like an easy ride, right? Okay. Now, like a lot of people, I really am interested in the Titanic. I think it was an amazing space. I did a TV show about it. We did an episode of this. I spent a lot time thinking about it, thinking about what those rooms would have been like, all of that. So I think it would have been very, very enjoyable. until the iceberg just caveating that if you're in the

first class cabins lovely lovely lovely if you're at Pompey though you can just get up and walk away you can just go I'm going Pompeii because I think it's like 60 odd percent

of the first class male passengers died during Titanic not as many as the third class right oh yeah of course but our choice is rich men that's right did I

wealthy man on board Titanic or wealthy man in Pompey I'm going Pompey because you can't

people did escape Pompey yes yeah so people people but

only 30 something percent of them yeah okay so I think we agreed on that what is called

pyroclastic flow right oh I did not understand this when we did absolutely yeah the brilliant

Dr Jess Bennett fantastic but I was like what no Why did they not walk away? Maybe they couldn't walk away. Go back and listen to that episode.

No, they did. Some of them did walk away. Yeah. Definitely. I know, obviously, they didn't know. They hadn't heard of Pompeii exploding in history. Oh my God, guys. They're referred to as Pompey, guys.

But, you know, Pompey. But I do feel like the big mountain starts to smoke. Yeah. Just jog on. Yeah. Just getting a boat and go or something. I mean, for goodness sake. Pyroclastic float

Okay, next one Would you rather be a crew member on the Erebus Oh, this is right Oh, Jesus Okay, no, easy for me Would you rather be a crew member

on the Erebus Or a lodger in William Hare's Lodging House As in William Hare of Work and Hair fame? Okay, now Easy for me, I don't even need to think about this. The easy answer is William Hare lodging house

Because you have a chance, right? You can maybe fight back, you can just hope that you're out when he's in a murderous bent. However, I am obsessed with the Erebus and Terra. I'm just, oh God, I love Michael Palin's book on it. We did one of our first episodes on the Terror and the Aribus. Do we do the Aribus?

I know we did the terror. It's the same. No, I know, but like, it's the same thing. I can't really remember the two ships. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's the 1840s. I'm currently spending a lot of time thinking about the 1830s and 40s for a new project. And I love the aesthetic of that moment.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we've got like early photographs of the crew. There are, I mean, obviously you wouldn't want to be in this situation, but, you know, there are bodies that are preserved in the ice that still have their facial hair on, they've got their teeth still. You know, I've got eyeballs, I think, still in because, you know, literally they've been frozen. They've been popped in the freezer.

And I don't know. I just, I think there's something so fascinating about that. Would I want to be a member of that crew? Obviously not because they abandoned the ships, walked across the ice and spoiler alert cannibalism happened not great

it's going to have to be the lodging house but I'd love to be on the Erebus or the terror for like a day and then pop back pre-disaster and be like this is a lovely very interesting

beautiful epic landscape you know all this ice and the sort of magnificence of it and the sublimity but I want to be back home in time for bed oh my God She's, oh, I was good, wow.

No, leave it in. Leave it in. Leave it in. She just got caught in her own hair. I was trying to, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, right. Okay, moving on. Now, are you good on boats?

No, absolutely not. Yeah, yeah, same like, no. No, I love the sea. The next book that I'm writing is about a boat and the sea and water. And I will have to at some point take a boat journey as part of my research. Oh my God. I'm dreading it. Yeah.

No, I literally get on a boat and immediately I'm like, oh no, oh no. Have you taken anti-travel sickness things? Even with that, it's a disaster. In my heart, I'm a sailor. Yeah. In reality, I'm a little sicky, pasty girl who sits on the shoreline and watches. Sure. But also, that's nice too.

I'm here for that. It's not great for research if you're writing about it. Like, you actually have to get on the way. have to get on the waves. YouTube exists. Don't go on a boat. Just look on YouTube. The other day I was listening to an interview with David Grant who wrote the wager, which

is an amendment. Did you just say writ? Who writ the wager? Who wrote the wager? Go on anyway. My brain is broken. Okay. I birth to human.

Did I say rich? I don't know. I don't know if she did. I just let me. I mean, sure, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Is Anthony deaf or is my brain not working? Oh, really? Yeah. In his old age. Oh. No. Listen.

We're getting there now. There's no point in mind. Just a boat on time speeding off. Yeah. God. Okay, so what was I saying? Yes, I was listening to David Gran who wrote the Wager. And he talked about, he went on a boat trip as part of that to like on what island it is now.

It's really remote where they end up getting stranded. And I mean, it just sounded like the most intense, crazy, terrifying thing to do. His own one. Yeah, yeah. And he said it was like you regretted it halfway through. And he was like, oh my God, this is horrendous. And obviously he went like on a modern boat. But he said, you know, he had to go to this remote place and experience it in order to write it.

But yeah, that would not be me. I like the idea, like you, I like the idea of it, but the reality of it, I'm going to be vomiting in your mouth. Don't vomit in my mouth. There's other people have been doing that recently. I don't want that anymore. This is the theme of this episode now. God. Right.

So we've decided that we're going to, what are we doing? Oh, we're going to be in the lodging house. Yes, we're going to be in the lodging house. I reckon I could take William Hare. I knew if it was coming for me, I'd be prepared. Yeah. And I reckon we'd be like, we're probably not who he's targeting. Because we're not like, we're...

You mean to say you're not a perfect medical specimen, Anthony? Well, that's not what they went for though, right? They went for vulnerable people. Yeah. Like, so I think we're all right. Yeah. People would miss you. They fucking would.

Wow. Okay, come on. Would you rather be Henry the 8th's Royal Executioner or, oh, this is hard, or a prize Roman gladiator? Oh, I do think this is hard to. Gladiator. No, gladiator 100%. If you're an executioner, it's miserable. Did you just say the executor?

Whatever. Don't. It doesn't matter. Yes. We, okay, what's happening? What's the word? Executioner. Uh-huh.

That one. Yes. No, I think if you're an executioner, I mean, it's pretty miserable. We've looked at a lot of executioners. executors in the past, including who's the famous guy from the 20th century, who did hundreds, yeah, pit-point. And that's miserable. It's weird. It must attract a strange kind of person. And I think, you know, what is the sort of moral substance of that? If you're there having to chop the head off Amberlin or whoever or Thomas Cromwell, like, really? Like, do you want to do that?

You're just taking people, you're going to do it. If you're a gladiator, obviously, you're probably enslaved or, you know, have been sold into this at some point. So you're not having a lot of choice but you can train you can give yourself a chance that's why i'm not doing it i don't know how to go to the gym oh okay i'm not lifting well you're going to have to lift a little bit to be able to cut people's heads off that's about the extent of it okay you're just exclusively training with an axe one okay just poop and also i think i might and you can't lift it up again oh somebody else can do that i'll have an assistant i'll have an apprentice to be like get it out with the block small stocky person stuff behind you really's job wow shame basically just shame come in

You do that bit. I'm not sure Shane would like to be described as short and stocky. He's not that short. He's like five. I wouldn't describe him as stocky. No, no, he's not. He's strong, though. He's strong, yeah.

But let's be a little bit nicer to Shane. No, we are big fans of Shane to such an extent that we married him. Yeah. Yes. Now, so I am going to be the executioner. Okay. Why? Why are you okay with that?

It's going to be warm if I'm a gladiator. No. I'm going to have to get my tits out all the time. No. Right. Okay. I mean, there are other costume options. I'm not true.

I'm going to have to fight people. No. Yeah, you'd not survive. I'm going to have to train. No. If you were forced, what would you go with? Would you be like I would like the fork and the net? Would you have a little sword, stabby, stabby?

Poetry. So I'm fucked. You're fucked. You're dead in the first five minutes. I wouldn't even try. Like, what's the point in turning up? I've got a recitation for you. I would mercy kill you.

You'd be on my team. And I'd be like, Anthony, it's time now. Just put me in a corner. Yeah, I'd just give you a hug and then. And I would appreciate that. Yeah. And you'd be like, you'd look at my eyes and you'd be like, thank you. And I'd be like, bye.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great poetry. Then you go out and get killed yourself five minutes later. It's a horrendously bloody thing. She's like, shit, I should have got him to do me before I went. Yeah, no, I can't do it. I'm going to be an execution. Yeah, I don't know.

I think, I think gladiator. I think it's more fun. Yeah, but there's an audience as well. I mean, there is an audience for an executioner, Clearly we're people who love an audience. I don't know what you're talking about. No, I do. I feel like if you're an executioner,

nobody's really happy to see you. Nobody's cheering you on. If you're a gladiator, you can be a celeb. People can be like, oh my God, with a little t-shirt with your name on. That's a Roman thing.

Yes, historically accurate. Yeah. Right. Would you rather be a Victorian rat catcher or a medieval gong farmer? What's a gong farmer? Poop. Like farming poo, basically.

I think. Farming poo. Yeah. Right. I'm referring to the script here because... Pooh pits. Oh, you're cleaning cess pits. Okay.

What's the first one? Rat catcher. Victorian rat catcher. Okay. I mean, the Victorian city is not clean. No. We've got cholera. We've got all kinds of diseases.

Other diseases are available. The sewers are gross. It's not good. I do like animals, though. Mm-hmm. But am I killing the rat? I mean, probably ultimately. Ultimately, that's the aim, right? Medieval cesspit farmer. What am I doing with the poo?

I guess like, I don't know. Is this fertiliser? I guess it's being used. Is this animal poo or human poo? I think it's whatever turns up. But mostly, well, no, because think about it, like human poo is being shoved out into the street too. So you're getting all of the poo. All of the humans and all of the, Okay, I think the only thing I want to be a Victorian rat catcher is just because I agree I think even though the Victorian city ain't clean I feel like being covered in shit in the medieval times

is going to give you less of a chance of survival than in the Victorian era marginally Just a bit Like here's the thing Here's why I would definitely be a rat catcher I would take me and Cape You hate rats Oh, you and Kip

Because Kip has killed two rats already in his life Oh Did he enjoy it or was he traumatised? No, he's a Karen Terry across. He is, Karen Terriers are built to kill rats. Okay. So, now. 100% I'm bringing Kip.

It'll be a family outing. Yeah. He can do all the hard work and he would love it. Oh, it's a nice daddy son activity. Exactly. That's lovely. No, okay, so my golden retriever, who is the gentlest boy of all time. He's really old now.

He wants, the only thing he's ever killed was a grouse by accident. We were on a walk in the countryside and he was on a lead. And this grouse shot out from the grass literally under his chin. And he just sort of instinctively went, and grabbed it and then let it go and panicked and this poor grouse

sort of staggered off down the path and then died and then my dog was whining and was like what's happening and was like friend friend do you okay

it was heartbreaking and now every time he sees grass grouse saw a pheasant one we're out and he's like he looks at me like he knows

you can see in his eyes he's like do you remember that time I committed a crime oh no it's so sad constantly kill if you could

oh yeah my other dog Nellie is like a psychopath she would she nearly killed a delivery man yesterday oh did she

yeah he did come in the sidegates So fair. Eges. Yeah. How dare you. Yeah. She ascended off the floor and sort of flew through the air with all her hackles up and was like, I will kill you. And he made a swift exit, which was, yeah.

And it's always, it's always more intimidating when it's a bigger dog. It's like, you know what Kip's like. Kip does not like people. I mean, I have seen Kip spring from behind a closed door in the air to jump in someone's face when we filmed in Edinburgh. Producer Laura. Oh, yeah. Yeah. marginally attacked by your dog.

Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, no, any kind of surprise, no, thank you. Basically what we're saying is if you see Anthony Ann about in public and he's with his dog, careful. And also people have this thing where they're like, nobody he'll like me. And I have had conversations with people where I'm just like, don't touch him.

Yeah, yeah. And he's on lead. Oh, try walking around with a baby and a dog. So my dog Nelly, who's a psychopath, is like, this is my baby, do not come near it. And people are like, a baby, a dog. I'm going to touch all your beings. And I'm like, stranger, do not do this.

And then Nelly is like, you will lose a hand. And she starts growling and people like, oh, it's okay. Like calm down and I'm like, no, baby, you'll lose a hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't approach us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, please go away. Right, so we both decided that we're going to be Victorian rack.

Yes, I think so. Would you rather be tried for witchcraft in Salem or, oh God, or heresy in the Spanish Inquisition, Salem? Salem. I'm not going to Spanish Inquisition. No, thank you. going to have to be tried for witchcraft. Well, if I'm going to be accused of something that's nonsense,

I want it to be witchcrafted. And I'm going to lean into being spooky bitch. I'm going to be like, do you know what? I'm going to own this. Fuck you all. Because the thing is, if you admit it, you're not going to get killed. Yeah, it's okay. You had to repent.

And if you repented, then you'd be fine. And if we're going to lean into it, we might as well be like, yeah, actually. Sorry about all that witchcraft. Yeah. And by the way, she's also a witch. Yeah. Because like, you're going to have to. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, okay, fair. You have to spread the disease. Yeah, I mean, that's an issue, right, that you are, you're spreading that. Yeah, but like Spanish Inquisition, you're in a dungeon, potentially for years waiting for... Oh, no, I'm no patience with that. No, thank you. No, no, no.

And I'm not doing anything for Catholicism ever, so no thanks. Yeah, it's witchcraft. The answer is witchcraft all the way. The answer is always witchcraft. Would you rather spend a year in a Victorian workhouse? Oh, Jesus. Saying that to an Irish man. Or be transported to Australia.

Oh! that's warm as a convict for a year. Okay, I mean, it would probably take your best part of a year to get to Australia, so I don't know how accurate that is. No, it's 100% of Victorian Workhouse. It's awful as that would be. Yeah. And it really would be awful.

But you couldn't pay me to go to Australia. And I'm sorry to all this since in Australia. You have big spiders. Even now. You wouldn't go. No chance. Unless anyone wants to do us a tour in Australia and New Zealand, in which case, I'd be very happy to go.

No, spiders and snakes absolutely. get away from me. I've seen on the internet your giant spiders. I've seen them. Nope. Okay. Okay. I would have picked Australia

and you know how much I hate the heat. Yeah. But I think it's on the eighth or nine months crossing. Yeah, it's a long old time and I'm not sure I'm going to be able for that. I mean, we're not good on boats.

No. You're dying on the way over there. Yeah. Yeah. So like, yes, Australia over a workhouse, but I don't. I mean,

I don't love the idea of a workhouse. It's, appeal to me. I don't want to spend time there. But the spiders are normal sized. Where? In a workhouse. Yes. Yes. Yes. So is the typhus. But so typhus is going to be on that boat too. They're going to be on that boat. Yeah. No. So yeah, I still, I can't have to. Sideway, I saw a really interesting reel the other day by someone on the internet. And I cannot remember who it is for the life of me, but it was amazing. And it was about female convicts being taken to Australia and records that show all the tattoos they have in the 19th century.

And it was so interesting. That sounds interesting. So if you were the person who made that real, get in touch because it's so interesting. But no, Victorian Workhouse, please. Yes. Would you rather be Henry VIII's Groove of the Stool or a Victorian tosher search London's? Oh, right. Okay.

So basically a totter did not know this. Is somebody who's like a mudlarker. You're searching London sewers, though, for valuables. Definitely a Tosher. I'm not going anywhere near Henry the 8th who is a tosser, not a tusser. Not a Tosha. Oh. See what I did that.

She's talented. No, it's definitely Tosha. Look, you just put on some waders, put a mask on, gris it. That is going to be so interesting. I love mudlacking. I think that's so fascinating. I think to be able to in the Victoria area, to go into the city and to see what people are dropping, I mean, that's seeing archaeology as it's happening, as things are being

committed to the sewer, but, you know, the ground or the river or whatever it is. That's seeing the process of history and the way that material objects kind of come and go from our lives in ways that we don't notice. And they become a historical record of lost things, of displaced things, of things that have been cast away, thrown away, whatever. That would be fascinating if Smelly, not going anywhere near Henry the 8th. Screw that guy. I'm going to pick Henry the 8th because loophole, as groom of the stool, you're actually a member of the nobility. You're actually not doing any of the actual poo stuff because Grimstool obviously is about his intimate habits.

Do you not have to do that then? You don't have to do it. You have a team of underlings who are doing that. This is why I need for baby nappy changes, a team of underlings. Yeah, yeah. And that, so I'm going to pick that. I'm going to always go for comfort. You know this about me.

I'm not going to go in a sewer. But I do love looking at mudlarking on Instagram and stuff like that. I love it and I'm jealous of them all. You love it through a screen. Yeah. Yeah. And I would mudlarking on. mudlark if I had more patience but I don't we we should go and do an episode of mudlark that'll be

really good I'd love to do that with someone who knows good places to go yeah like a mudlarker yeah like a professional people one of those people no but I love those on Instagram and they're just like oh my god I found this belt buckle from whenever I'm like oh my god I love that for you exactly incredible yeah well we're doing different things there but that's fine would you rather be marie antonette in 1793 oh oh that's a good run or anne boleyn in 1536 okay so they're both dying in those years. I mean, it's not great, and you're losing your head either way. I think, I mean, this is just miserable, isn't it?

I mean, I'd always rather been the 18th century. I'm going on the re-internet. I'd rather, I mean, I'd rather be mirror internet. I always do think about, though, the note that she left for her children, or about her children when, I think it's addressed to them, when just before she goes to her execution. and she basically is like, I mean paraphrasing, but it's basically like, I love you, stay strong,

don't listen to all the noise kind of thing. And it's so, it's scrawled on a scrap of paper, it's kind of ripped torn bit of parchment. And it's so moving. And I always just think about that, the sort of intimacy of her as a mother going off to die. But I would rather that than Anne Boleyn. I mean, I always think about Anne, you know,

thinking Henry is going to pardon her at the last minute, looking up at the window, to see if he's there. She really thinks the reprieve is coming and she's going to survive. I don't want that experience. I don't want to be like, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. And then you can just hear this sword hissing through the air. It's still fine.

No, it's not. Everything got to work out. Do you think she's still, you know how people say when you potentially lose your head that you have about eight seconds of consciousness possibly? Oh, my God, that freaks me out. Yeah. Do you think she's as her head's going down, she's thinking, it's still fine. It's still fine.

Oh, she's thinking fucking Henry. Yeah. I've never thought about that. Why would I? It's weird. But I still like it. I like it as a thought. Miserable.

It's going to have to be Mary Internet. If I'm going to have to lose my head, it's going to have to be in the 18th century. And also Maria Antoin is a little, or Maria, is a bit more iconic, I think, than Ambelin.

The girlies are going to come for me, I know. Come for her in the comments. I think she's a bit more iconic. I also think I want to have had what Maria Internet had before I die rather than what Ambelin had. Oh, wow.

You would be, you would be so cancelled and so executed in the 18th century. century, big time. Please, they'd be stringing me up for sodomy. I wouldn't even make it that far. Yeah, okay, I wasn't going to go into that darkness of that.

Jesus Christ. Yeah, miserable. Okay. So we're both Marie Antoinette. We're both Marie Antoinette. Yeah, okay. Also, if you're watching this from Versailles, please let's do a sponsored episode because it's one of my favorite places on Earth, just to let you know.

Yeah, I would like to come. Let's do that. Would you rather give birth, oh, this is a very you. Would you rather give birth in the Middle Ages or undergo Oh no, this isn't about worth. Okay. Undergo surgery by a medieval barber surgeon. Okay, so,

hmm, okay. I mean, I would argue that they're both equally dangerous. And, okay, I don't know. I have a stat here. Around 1 to 1.5% of mothers died in each pregnancy. What does each pregnancy mean? But that seems very low. One to one point five percent.

It's got to have been higher than that. I mean, I don't know. I'm just looking at this in my nose. got to have been higher. Very very good. I mean, obviously, there's no, we have no pain relief, really. I mean, I'm sure there was sort of herbal remedies and stuff, but there ain't no gas in air.

There's no epidural. There's, I mean, what even happens if you have a tear or any kind of birth injury? Does someone sew you back up? How's that looking in the middle ages? Tell you what, it's not looking great now. So that's not the best. I, okay, and then obviously you've got things like sort of complications

that might come after. infections, there's no antibiotics. I don't know that, I don't know that things have moved on enough that it would be that different though. The other thing I will say about giving birth in the Middle Ages, which does appeal to me, and I find this fascinating,

is the birth belts, the birth girdles. Have you seen these? They're so fascinating. Yeah, so these are sometimes parchment, sometimes cloth, essentially just a belt that we placed around the pregnant woman in labor, sort of around the belly potential. and they were embroidered or decorated with sort of religious imagery, prayers, spells, things like that.

The idea being that maybe sort of uttered them, you know, whilst that was happening, it was sort of protective to you. And I really like that idea. I have to say, I mean, it's not going to help you if you need an emergency C-section, but I like the idea of the sort of the comfort of that. I think that's, you know, it's like having a playlist and some twinkly lights now. Do you know what? I was just saying to the producers before we started, I am obsessed with Katzai, because you just said playlist. I'm obsessed with Katzai at the moment.

Do you know who they are? No. Okay, nobody seems to know. If you listen. Mate, I listen to Wheels on the Bus 40 times a day at home. That's all I do. And The Fate of Ophelia by Taylor Swift on repeat because it's the only song that my baby will stop crying to. So I literally listen to that, honestly, about 40 times a day.

I'm going mad. But if you're listening to Taylor, thank you for that. I'm too old to like them, but they're brilliant. Okay, I'll check that out. Maybe I'll get the baby into them. The their newest song is called Iconic by mistake and it's so amazing. We're sponsored this episode by. Katzai, you want to come on a history podcast for absolutely no reason.

You're all 21. So why would you? But anyway, you could. You could. Oh my God. Okay. What about you? Are you doing the surgery or are you giving birth?

What do you think I'm doing? I think you're doing. I actually think you would be better giving birth. Piss off. You really want to do the surgery? I don't know. It's probably going to have to happen anyway, right? But at least there's a potential.

potentially nice conclusion to giving birth. It's productive. Do you think I want a child? I mean, you have two biological furrow children at home. So, you know, you are a parent. Thank you for reminding me. Yes. You remember those, your babies?

Yeah, yeah, my biological dog children. Yes. No, I'm doing the barber surgeon. What kind of surgery are you willing to have, though? Like, are we having both legs amputated? Or are we having like, you've just got a splinter stuck in your arm and you just need it taking out? I'm willing to.

do like teeth stuff. Oh wow. I'm willing to do like boil stuff. Someone please clip this for the the end of the abscesses fine. You're going to have to do it anyway. Okay. Okay. But amputation. I don't really want those big things. Okay. Okay. Like just everyday shit. Right. So Anthony's having a tooth pulled and I'm giving birth. Yeah. And thus the world is in order. Now, how has day one back been? Well, that's been chaos. Yeah. No, absolutely. And we're only an hour into day one. We have many more episodes to record today.

Yeah, it's nice. Nice to be back. It's good. Are you hungry? I am always hungry now. I'm always hungry and you know how I was always cold before and now I'm always boiling hot.

Are you? Has it changed your body temperature? It's so weird. We have aligned. I know, we've aligned. Yeah. It's roasting right now. Actually, I'm wearing a cooler outfit than you.

I know. You are in a actual molly card again. But we have air content. It's going to turn on as soon as we stop recording and I have a fan so I'll be fine. Right. Say goodbye to the people now that you're back.

Goodbye. That's all you're getting? I don't know what to do anymore. Oh my God. Well, thank you very much for listening or watching along. It's a bit nice to be back. I'm excited. Yeah.

We've got some good episodes coming up. Doesn't it feel like you've not been gone? Do you know, I haven't listened to it or watched since I've been gone? Do you never? I do sometimes if we've had a really great guest and I will listen back. Wow. Okay. It's also probably why I don't remember any episodes.

Yes, that's very true. No, I've purposely not listened because I've been incredibly jealous of you all having a nice time and you've had some really good guess while I've been gone. Yeah, they've been really good. But no, but it's, it's been lovely, but it's now even lovelier that you're back? Yes. Congratulations to me. Do you want to sound a bit more convinced?

I'm so tired, right, hon. Energy, energy. See you next time. She's nice.