After Party with Emily Jashinsky - Crockett's Slim Senate Chances, Trump vs MTG and CBS, and Charlie Kirk's Singular Role, with Mark Halperin

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Emily Jashinsky is joined by Mark Halperin, Editor-in-chief of 2WAY and host of “Next Up with Mark Halperin.” The show opens with a look at Texas Rep Jasmine Crockett’s video filled with attacks from President Trump to announce her U.S. Senate campaign, her Democratic and Republican rivals, whether she has a real chance to win, and if her candidacy actually hurts her party’s national image. They also discuss podcaster Jennifer Welch’s harsh rhetoric and attacks on Erika Kirk, and Tim Pool’s comment saying Charlie Kirk’s death may be the most effective political assassination in our history because of what it’s doing to the right, Turning Point USA, and Republican chances in the midterms. Then Emily and Mark take up the topic of Jimmy Kimmel’s new deal with ABC, Georgia Rep Marjorie Taylor Greene’s combative interview with “60 Minutes” correspondent Lesley Stahl, and President Trump’s takedown of CBS. Emily rounds out the show with a look at the viral confrontation between Tish Hyman and California Rep Ro Khanna and how Khanna failed the litmus test when it comes addressing the issue of biological men in women’s spaces. PreBorn: Help save a baby go to https://PreBorn.com/Emily or call 855-601-2229. PDS Debt: You’re 30 seconds away from being debt free with PDS Debt. Get your free assessment and find the best option for you at https://PDSDebt.com/EMILY Unplugged: Switching is simple, Visit https://Unplugged.com/EMILY and order your UP phone today! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everyone. It's casual Monday here on After Friday because our guest, Mark Cowperin is where else at the gym. It's where he does his best work. And I decided not to do any hair or makeup and just put a baseball hat on. So with your permission, we will continue the show anyway. We will plow forward like the intrepid journalists that we are. We're going to get to Mark in just one moment before we do. Big, big, big show. Tonight, the news keeps rolling in because guess what? The midterm cycle is basically here. Jasmine Crockett.

Jasmine Crockett has jumped into the Democratic primary race down in Texas where Democrats are hoping to unseat John Cornyn, who's hardly the most popular man in Texas, but I bet he'll be a little bit more popular than Jasmine Crockett. Just my hunch. New comments from Jennifer Welch of I've had it laying into Erica Kirk. She used the G word called Erica Kirk a grifter.

We'll have some reaction to that. Marjor Taylor Green was on 60 minutes and Jimmy Kimmel actually has an extension. Show is not ending until 2027 according to news that just broke today and a new Tish Heimann video this time with Roe Kana. So this is a really interesting video because Roe Kana is one of the Democrats who is trying to help the party and had a little bit of a rough go of it in this confrontation with Tish Hyman in California at a town hall. First, before we get into the show, please make sure to subscribe. It helps us so much. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast. That's where we put all of our Happy Hour episodes where I talk to you via the questions that you send in. So if you're not subscribed over on the podcast side, please do that.

I'll also be debating with Ryan Grimm, some of the Libertarians over at Reason on Big Tech. So if you're in the D.C. area, come out and see us Wednesday night. You can get tickets there on my XP. or on the reason website. Finally, just want to give a shout out to my friend Al's mom and her wonderful friend. I met at Al's wedding over the weekend. They're big viewers of the show and big, big, big fans of Megan, which is always fun to talk to people in the wild, in the wilderness, who watch the show and you never miss a Megan Kelly show.

So shout out to them. It was great to see you over the weekend. All right, without further ado, let's go ahead and bring in Mark Halperin, who is, of course, editor-in-chief of Two-Way and host of Next Up with Mark Halperin on Where Else? Megan Kelly's MK Media. And Mark, where else is at the gym wearing Cubs gear? What are you doing? It's Cubs gear, but it's also a Japanese artist, very famous Japanese artist on this side. You know this is Murakami? Are you familiar with Markami? Yes, yes. A little Murakami Cubs. What do you call those things? Collabs. Mashup.

Mashup, Collabs. So it's a Japanese company and they do these things and like I over buy. So I'm not even a Cubs fan, but I own a lot of, or Dodgers fan, but I own a lot of Cubs and Dodgers, Murakami gear. And I'm unveiling this one tonight for the first time. It's kind of a world exclusive premiere on the after party. Yeah, it's like being on the runway, basically. Basically.

Ask me who I'm wearing. I'll say Murakami and Ryan Sandberg. Time's right, yeah. All right. I'm really glad we have you here tonight, Mark. because I'm fascinated by the dynamics this Texas Senate race is turning into this is promising to be I think one of the most interesting political contests of maybe the entire decade both the primary and the general election and that sounds crazy but today Jasmine Crockett did what everyone expected her to do at least in the last 48 or so hours and formally entered the Texas center rate push it race pushing out Colin all red people may remember it from the cruise race just a couple of years ago so I want to go ahead and started here with Jasmine Crockett's campaign announcement video. This is S4.

How about this new one they have? Their new star, Crockett. If you're listening to this, it's just a video of Crockett looking into the distance. She's the new star of the Democrat Party, Jasmine Crockett. They're in big trouble. But you have this woman Crockett. She's a very low IQ person. I watched her speak the other day.

She's definitely a low IQ person. Crockett. Oh, man. Oh, man. she's a very low IQ person somebody said the other day she's one of the leaders of the party I said you got to be getting

now they're going to rely on Crockett Crockett's going to bring them back so again for the visual the way that ended was with flashbulbs and Jasmine Crockett dressed in all black crossing her arms it was the same shot of Crockett the entire way through very artsy

Mark what do you make of Jasmine Crockett entering this race First of all, despite your extraordinary powers of description, you are not able to do that video justice because it's bizarre. Emily, a Democrat has none won a statewide office in Texas for over a quarter century. And if you're asking me if Jasmine Crockett will be the Democrat who breaks that streak, the answer is no. Maybe she'll be the nominee. And if she is, the Republicans will rejoice because any of the three Republicans in the Republican prime.

can beat her, almost certainly, because again, there's a profile that's been bandied about for years of the kind of Democrat who could break this 35 or whatever it is 30, I guess 31 year losing streak to win a statewide office in Texas. And that profile matches not at all with that of Jasmine Crockett. Well, in some ways, I feel like I'm more interested in this primary matchup than I even in the general for all of the reasons that you just laid out. And I actually found more video here of Crockett recently. This is just the last couple of hours, I think, formal announcement videos. Let's take a listen.

When Texas turns blue, she says. Because of any one candidate, but because of each and every one of you doing your part. Turning Texas blue is what I want to talk to y'all about today. Now, there are those that say, ain't no way. tried at 50 kinds of ways. Let me be clear. Y'all ain't never tried at the JCP way. We used to telling us what I can't do,

but they have no idea what Crocket's crew will do. So I just want to be clear, for all the haters in the back. Listen up real loud. That's for you, Mark. We don't get this thing done. I'm a lover or not a hater. All right. So, you know, obvious cynicism.

on behalf of Democrats in Texas aside, what does it do for Democrats in 2026? You know, now that people feel like Trump sort of took Zoro Mamdani off the table, he'll still be used in races and in red districts, red states, purple areas as well. But Crackett, I wonder, if that's an even more powerful person to tie different Democrats to them, Mom Donnie. I mean, look, she'll be used by the president and by others, whether she runs or not, whether she's the nominee or not. But she's very liberal.

She's very undisciplined as a campaign, you know, force. She's the one who famously said that Lee Zeldon had received a campaign contribution from Jeffrey Epstein. And when it was determined it was Dr. Jeffrey Epstein, a totally different guy. She said, I didn't say he'd received a campaign donation from the Jeffrey Epstein. I said, A, Jeffrey Epstein. So, I mean, she's a, she's not a figure who Democrats want to see. succeed for the nomination for most Democrats because she's got no chance to win in general

by the calculations of most people I know. On the other hand, should be used either way. And on the other hand, I don't think any of the Democrats who are talked about running or are still running are going to win this seat in this general election unless the Republicans nominate Attorney General Pax. And he might be vulnerable in a general, but I don't believe he'd be vulnerable to her. And I had somebody send me an email today or text or said, best day of Ken Paxton's life in a long time because now he can't, his opponents can't use the electability argument to say he shouldn't be the nominee because because his electability over, over Jasmine Crockett, most Republicans think is preordained. So actually, that's a good point

because I've just sort of been assuming Paxton isn't, he's not going to cut it. in this race, but that is a heavy assumption. So what is your sense of the GOP side right now? I still think the president's going to endorse the incumbent, John Cornyn. He's not a MAGA favorite, but he's done a lot to ingratiate himself with the president, including hiring as his consultants, some of the president's top political advisors. And I think in the end, Republicans don't want to worry about this race. And if Paxton's the nominee, they'll have to worry about it. They probably won't lose it, but they'd have to worry about it. They just want to bank it. And if Paxton's the nominee, he's going to be reelected. So my, my.

My spidey since all along has been the president, despite his close ties with Paxton will eventually endorse John Corny and he'll win the nomination and win the general. Well, back to the Dem primary. I want to ask about, you might not like this, Mark, James Tallarico, who I refer to as Timu Richie Cunningham, who this is a clip I want to play as sort of, is a clip that I think does a good job at capturing what Talarico, his appeal, Democratic consultants. want to frame as his appeal, I guess, is a kind of clumsy way of putting it. But he, people may remember, went on Joe Rogan. He had that back and forth about the Ten Commandments in the classroom. I think he went to seminary. And here's a little snippet from Tau Rico on a podcast recently. My granddad was a Baptist preacher in South Texas. And he told me when I was real little that we follow a barefoot rabbi. That's how he called it. And that barefoot rabbi gave two commandments love God and love neighbor because there is no love of God without love of neighbor

is how he put it and my church when I was growing up always really emphasized our love for our neighbors the need to take our faith from the sanctuary to the streets to act right in the same way the labor organizers put their faith into action the way civil rights marchers put their faith into action the way farm workers put their faith into action that was always the emphasis which it's no wonder I went into public service first as a public school teacher and then as a public official it's all motivated by that commandment to love my neighbor as myself I try to love my neighbor through public policy all right mark what do you make it up um on the one hand I get what all the fuss is about on the other hand I don't get what all the fuss is about um I I I you know if you take him on

paper right he's he's a very compelling figure for the Democrats a young dynamic uh progressive of faith who can talk the owls down from the trees and looks pretty and seems to combine steel and softness. On the other hand, you know, it's a subjective thing. I just think his capacity to again break the Democrats 30-year losing streak in Texas. I just I don't think it's quite there based on his appeal and what I think is a press corps that's on overly in love with him. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he reminds me a bit of like MJ Hagar and some of those other candidates. His ads have been fantastic and they're, you know, taking stuff that works on paper

and hoping that he's able to carry that message. But the reason I'm fascinated by this primary is that you have the Crockett figure who represents, you know, she's not an Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Democratic Socialist. I mean, actually Tala Rico on policy stuff, I'll be curious to see how this shakes out because he might have a case for being more Bernie aligned than Crockett does when it comes out in the wash. But she's the sort of Jennifer Welch candidate. We're going to talk about Welch in just one moment, but the anti-norms Democratic candidate, he is the restore the norms democratic candidate with a sort of Bernie policy flare. So it's a weird dynamic. Well said. Well said. I mean, I want to see sort of how they do when they

start to engage with each other, how they draw the contrast, how much attention is focused on them as batons. It'll be interesting to see. But again, I think you're going to find for all the kind of bright, shiny object, nature of the two of them, that it's going to be hard for either of them to win the general election. All right. I have a lot more to get through with Mark Halpern tonight. But first, over the years, I have been clear about this. I'm not just pro-birth. I'm pro-life. And being pro-life means standing with mothers not only before their baby is born, but long after. And that is exactly why I partner and partner so proudly with pre-born. Pre-born does not just save babies. They make motherhood abundantly possible. They provide free ultrasounds and share the

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Help save those babies and support mothers today. Go to preborn.com slash Emily or call 855601-229. That's preborn.com slash Emily. All right, we're back now with Mark Halpern, who's of course editor-in-chief of two-way and host of Next Up with Mark Halpern on Megan Kelly's M-K Media. our MK Media neighbors, so we have to get Mark Alperin's take on the New York Times's splashy profile of Jennifer Welch, host of the I've Had It podcast. We've talked about her a couple of times. We can put F2 up on the screen. This was a fairly uncritical profile that I think

brought out some interesting notes in Jennifer Welch without devoting much skepticism or criticism at all to some of the obvious moral, political flaws that Jennifer Welch brings to the table like this one. Let's go ahead and roll S2. Jennifer Welch talking about Charlie Kirk's grieving widow, Erica Kirk. She is a grifter and just look at the costume changes. Look at the costume changes. Look at the affect and how she does that. It's wild. This woman should be kicked to the curb. She is an absolute grifter just like Donald Trump and just like her unrepentant, racist, homophobic husband was. So Welch has, of course, also referred to Charlie Kirk after his assassination as a, quote, piece of shit. And those comments came after Erica Kirk was talking about her position on government entitlement programs at the New York Times deal book summit, hardly controversial, hardly the type of stuff that would.

you know, make somebody of pure heart go after the grieving widow of a slain political target, Mark? What do you think? I don't get that lady. First of all, I don't think it's a deal book summit and thus you're invited. That's just my general attitude. You know, it's one of the main, I would say main, it's a big grievance of people on the right, as you know, that places like the New York Times, right, fawning profiles of people on the left. And in this case of a of a lady who, even before her latest outburst about Erica, Kirk, she's not very well-manored. She's not very polite. She's a big potty mouth.

And, you know, the New York Times wants politics to be more genteel, wants there to be less negativity. They don't like the president's use of negative stuff. And this lady is second to none in saying things about people that are mean-spirited and gross. And she's entitled to her First Amendment rights. but I don't know that she's entitled to a New York Times profile that glosses over her rudeness. And it really did. I mean, I have to say, the New York Times surprised me a bit with this profile, and that may sound naive. But they have obviously been trying to prove that they're getting better.

I put that in air quotes. They're obviously trying to make some inroads with the right again. And, you know, Ross Douthit is like their podcast star at this point. And, you know, Mark as well. as I do that Jennifer Welch would be treated as a Christine O'Donnell like figure if she were on the left and that's a callback because I think Welch is popular. Let me test my theory out on you. I think she's popular because she gets that the Democrats are in a T-party moment and so few other podcasters have understood that yet. So she has kind of sucked all the oxygen out of that hole in the market.

And they're left to put up with the rest of the baggage that comes with that. Yeah. I think you're right. I think she's, I'll just say it a slightly different way, but I don't disagree with you. I think she's popular because she's part of that we're not going to take it anymore. We're not going to sit back. Let's imitate Trump. It's parallel to what Gavin Newsom has done right on accent social media, which is to basically say, we're going to simultaneously mimic Trump and parody Trump.

We're going to say outrageously mean and personal things. Regarding the New York Times, if I may, they've written two stories. that I think part of what you said, which is they really do seem to be making a self-conscious effort to on occasion act like they're not biased. They wrote a long story about the scandal in Minnesota over the stealing of tax dollars by groups largely run by Somali Americans. And then they had a story two and a half years too late about Joe Biden's failed policy on the border.

These are stories that I suspect are being called up by the editors to demonstrate fairness, but then they go and write a profile of someone who, again, if they were Republican, they would rip apart, but she's a Democrat. So they write something relatively soft and gauzy about her. That's exactly what they did. And speaking of Charlie, Tim Poole, who's facing some security concerns at his. home in West Virginia spoke out a little bit about what effect the assassination of Charlie Kirk has had on the broader right. So let's go ahead and roll S3 here. This is just from the last

couple of days. Tim Pool. The assassination of Charlie Kirk may be the most effective political assassination in our history because of conversations from many prominent individuals. I'm not singling out any one person. There are many people doing this. Turning Point USA has become the perpetrator of the crime against themselves. Turning Point USA would have been the principal organization

to help Republicans win the midterms. With Charlie Kirk's death, we are now seeing disarray. But the fact now that turning point is viewed as the villain by so many people, especially on the right, it's going to hinder their ability to win a midterm. Democrats might actually win. Trump will get impeached. And this means dark days indeed.

So Tim's studio and home, it's kind of a compound outside of Harper's Ferry, he said that a car on December, 5th, a car drove onto the property and opened fire. This is all being investigated right now, but he referred to the assassination of Charlie as the most, he said it may end up being the most effective assassination in history in that clip mark. And I'm just curious if you've noticed any sense that, or any ways in which there's been a chilling effect. Is that real? Is that yet to come? It's only been, you know, it's been such a short period of time since this happened. Yeah. Look, there have been a lot of canceled events quietly, privately, canceled events. There's also people you and I both know who have kind of a fatalistic attitude, which Charlie, I think, to some extent, had, which is to say, you can only take so many precautions.

If it's going to happen, unfortunately, it's going to happen. I talked to someone today, by coincidence, who I'm not going to be super specific here, but he had his office was in a public office building, not a government building, but there was a government official who had a district office. in that building right across the hallway, and he quit his job and went to work someplace else because he didn't want to be in that building because of what happened to Charlie Kirk, switched to a different office building. I will say this also in terms of the impact that the assassination had, which is a point that someone made to me. It's not my point originally, but I don't want to name the person who said it. Charlie was a genius, and he was glue. And now you see all of these fights of Laura Lumer and Tucker and Bannon and Candace, right? Who I think Tim was alluding to on that clip.

Yeah. So I mean, you know, Candice and Charlie, I hear so many different things about sort of the status of things between them, you know. But Charlie, you know, Donald Trump always says, you know, when I was president, Putin didn't invade. And then when Biden was president, Putin did. You know, is it a direct correlation? Who knows? But we can say this, just as Trump can say, they didn't invade on his watch. When Charlie was alive, the controversies, the contentiousness with Candace was tamped down. When Charlie was alive, the contentiousness with Tucker and with Nick Fuentes was tamped down. So has this all broken out, at least on X, MAGA on MAGA action, has this broken out because Charlie's not here to keep the peace? I can't. say for sure, but I can say the correlation seems pretty, pretty exact. Mm-hmm. All right. Let's move on to Jimmy Kimmel, because Jimmy Kimmel, we can put the

variety headline up on the screen here. It was announced a deal that apparently happened in the summer. Variety broke the news today that Jimmy Kimmel Live has a new deal with Disney that's going to keep him on air for another year, quote, according to three people familiar with the matter. Kimmel's current deal, everyone may remember with Disney. was believed to expire in 2026. Now, Kimmel announced it this afternoon, but what's odd is that Variety says the deal was inked over the summer mark, and over the summer that would be before Kimmel was caught up in that controversy with Brendan Carr,

over at the FCC, over his comments about Charlie Kirk, implying heavily suggesting, implying as the predicate for a joke that his killer was, on the right was a MAGA person, joking of course that everybody remembers this, but basically that the right was trying to do everything to deflect away from the possibility that the shooter was MAGA. And now we see polling a lot of Democrats actually do believe, many Democrats actually do believe that the shooter of Charlie Kirk was MAGA. What's going on with this, Mark?

Well, first of all, I like the fact that you use the classic variety word inked. Yes, yes, yes. Let me ask you this. Is Kimmel back on all the ABC affiliates? Is he back on the Sinclair stations? My memory is that they did put him back on within a couple of weeks. Yeah. I mean, you know, late night ratings are down, but Kimmel still makes money, I believe, I believe, for Disney.

And in Hollywood, box office is Bafo. Box office is Supreme. so if the stations are clearing the show they're airing the show and if he's making money you know they're going to put him back on uh let's see what the president says uh and and let's see if you know if he if he says stuff that's beyond the pale again but i'm not surprised because that piece of real estate is very hard to program and the networks don't want to give it back to the affiliates and give up the revenue so if kimmel's got some following and he does not surprised they're trying to salvage him. Do you think in any way this is good news for Stephen Colbert? Is there any hope that

the Colbert reversal, which by the way, people forget that was his entire, that was the entire show. It wasn't just Colbert getting axed. They axed the late show. Yeah. I don't think Colbert makes money. Again, this is my impression from talking to people. I don't have like Rock's odd reporting, but I think. Puck reported this. Puck reported his show is losing a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. It's been reported a few places. It sounds right to me. And Kimmel makes money. So again, And Hollywood cares about very little, but one thing they care about is money. Yeah. Well, that's a non-controversial point, Mark, to be sure.

Did you catch the president's comments about CBS slash Paramount, I suppose, but he was on the Kennedy Center, Red Carpet. He hosted the Kennedy Center, honor, which is just like peak Trump. I say that about everything, but the man hosts the Kennedy Center honors. It's peakiest Trump. It is. I mean, he's 79. He's the president of the United States.

States and he couldn't resist hosting the Kennedy Center honors, which is he's, he's clearly the best host for that job. I can't think of anybody who would be more entertaining to watch hosting the Kennedy Center honors. But he said on the red carpet that he was asked about merging, merger news and all of that. But he was also talking, he just kind of went off on CBS. And I think he posted on truth social. He's posted a lot today. I'm on his truth social right now. There are a lot a post. But I think he posted that he thinks at this point CBS may actually be worse than before the Ellison ownership transfer. Did you see that, Mark? What do you make it out? I wonder how real it is, right? Because I think it's pretty clear. I mean, look, I'm sure he was annoyed by 60 minutes

because they gave his now friend of me, Marjorie Taylor Green, a glowing profile. But there's also an incentive for him now that it was revealed that Jared Kushner is involved in the paramount bid for Warner. He's got an incentive to not let people say he's all pro Ellison. So by attacking CBS, by saying Ellison's not changed CBS, I think it takes the edge off of the notion that he's simply trying to rig this for the Ellison's. That's a theory that lots of people are positing. But, you know, he doesn't like negative coverage and he doesn't understand why people who like him give him negative coverage sometimes. And he associates that both with individual reporters, if they seem to get along with them,

he thinks they should just do positive stories. And he does it within organizations like Paramount, too. Yeah, so here's the post. He said, my real problem with the show was not Marjorie Taylor Green. He says, my real problem with the show, however, wasn't the low IQ trader. It was that the new ownership of 60 Minutes Paramount would allow a show like this to air. They are no better than the old ownership who just paid me millions of dollars for fake reporting about your favorite president comma me since they bought it 60 minutes has actually

gotten worse i like your theory mark that there's something performative about this that could potentially shield him because when i was thinking about his comments on the red carpet at the kennedy center honors he was asked about the proposed netflix warner brothers merger which now could also be a hostile uh could also involve this hostile purchase uh from the ellicins it's like an insane mess right now. And Trump said that he will be involved in the deal as it goes through the FTC, of course. So is that, I mean, is that the kind of bigger pictures that Trump right now is almost playing the godfather in the big media deal, wheeling and dealing? Right. I mean, you know, he's interested in it on squawk box this morning. Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin kind

of thought about this because Joe's view is he was only saying what everybody already knew. So what's the big deal? Of course, he's going to be involved. interested in the outcome. This is an incredible story. You know, it's a story about Hollywood brands and a story about, you know, technological consolidation and the streaming wars, but it's also a big political story. You know, how many times do you see Donald Trump and Elizabeth Warren potentially on the same side opposing Netflix consolidating all the streaming dominance? But that's where we are right now. We don't know exactly where the president will end up, but he seems to have been favorable towards Netflix, towards Paramount. And yet he's also spent very nice things the last

couple days about the guy who runs Netflix, who has been courting him assiduously. So my guess is that, again, it's not my theory. It's the theory of some of my sources who are close to Trump watchers. My guess is he wants Paramount to win this thing, but that he's, as always with Trump, he's playing the angles, keeping his options open, surveying the terrain and waiting to see what happens. Yeah. The Supreme Court obviously today was considering the FTC firing ability of the president, which is the, maybe the hinge case in the Trump administration's effort to implement what's called unitary executive theory. But actually, this is testing precedent setback in the Roosevelt administration, hero of the Democratic Party, FDR, who did want to consolidate a lot

of power in the executive and sort of streamline the bureaucracy rather than having these, quote, quote, like independent agencies as we think of them now, like the FTC, Trump is essentially saying, I mean, I guess it's kind of soft power to say I'll be involved in the deal. But if the Supreme Court overturned Humphrey's executor, which sort of a lot of people read into the oral arguments today, Mark, then he might have even more wheeling in dealing power going forward. Yeah, I mean, I'm not usually a fan of reading into the oral arguments where the justice are going to end up. But in this case, it was so overwhelming. You had the six Republican-picked justices pretty clearly on the side of saying,

yeah, the old law that said, the old precedent that said presidents can't fire agency leaders, it's just outdated because things have changed so much. So I'd be pretty surprised after the oral arguments if that position got fewer than the five votes needed and probably will get six. And it will give the president quite a bit of. power to remake these agencies, which historically have kind of there's been a lag, you know, Republican comes in and the Democratic appointees get to stick around. And that dilutes the power of the new president, the Supreme Court looks to be on the verge of saying, no, if the new president

comes in and wants to remake these agencies, he or she can do it. Yeah, could be on the cusp of that. All right, we have more with Mark Hoppern coming up in just a minute. First, remember, a fresh start is possible. That can feel like it's getting worse every month. But that only continues if nothing changes. PDS debt has already helped hundreds of thousands of people rewrite their financial story and take back control. And your turn can start right now. If you're struggling with credit cards, personal loans, or medical bills, PDS debt creates personalized options to help you get out of debt. They look beyond the numbers to understand your situation and build a plan that's designed specifically for you. There's no minimum credit

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All right. We are back now with Mark Halpern, who is host of Two-Way, editor-in-chief of Two-Way, and host of Next Up with Mark Halpern on Megan Kelly's MK Media. Also, host of Two-Way. You're an editor-slash-host, right, Mark? I do a little editing, a little more editing, then a little more hosting. Yeah, that's all you could ask. That's all you could ask.

All right. I want to, speaking of fresh starts, I want to talk to you about Marjorie Taylor Green, who is not off to a fresh start because Donald Trump is referring to her as Marjorie Trader Brown, because when grass is no longer fresh, it goes brown. This is his reasoning, not mine. But MTG was on with Leslie Stahl on 16 minutes last night. We were talking earlier in the show about how Donald Trump reacted to that by saying CBS is not even where it was before the merger and what might explain all of that.

This seemed to have really set him off, even though MTG kind of understood her appearance, would probably set Trump off and was still very MTG. Let's go ahead and take a look at S-1. It's the most toxic political culture, and it's not helping the American people. But you contributed to that. You, you were out there pounding, insulting people. Leslie, you've contributed to it as well with your own part. Yes, you're accusatory, just like you did just then.

I know you're accusing me, but I'm smiling. You're accusing me. I am accusing me. But we don't have to accuse one of them. another. I want you to respond to what you have done in terms of insulting people, yelling at people, and then saying, I'd like for you to respond for that. I don't, you can respond to that. I don't insult people. You do in the way you question and you are, you're accusing me right now. I was thinking about this, Mark. I'm curious for your take. Marjor Taylor Green is stylistically a very post-Trump type

politician. Leslie Green is, Leslie Stahl is very much a pre-Trump style journalist. Leslie Stahl cast a lot of doubt on the ability to verify the Hunter Biden laptop. She has said all kinds of things in the past about Trump, that his supporters, I'm sure, interpreted it as digs at them as well. It's more polite, but I don't know that it's necessarily been more helpful to like healing the divides in the country, Mark. But what did you think of that? No, I mean, look, I'm very forgiving person and just because Leslie Stah's done some things that I look at as wrong, doesn't mean I'm not open to her, you know, and doing her job and doing some great interviews, but I just don't understand the choice to have her interviewing

Marjorie Taylor Green because of just that exact dynamic. I just, it's not right, doesn't sit right with me to listen to that conversation of two people just talking past each other on what are, really critical issues related to how they've each conducted themselves in the past. Mm-hmm. And Leslie Stahl, this is a really deep cut, but I found it while I was just prepping for the show today, Mark. I went back to some of the things she said during the Reagan administration and shortly after the Reagan administration. That woman predicted one day we would look back at Ronald Reagan and be baffled as to why

he was so popular and paraphrasing the quote. But I think she said that on Bob Costa's show in 1988, somewhere around there. She has not had the best crystal ball. No, I mean, she's just a classic, you know, liberal television correspondent masquerading as an objective journalist. And you just, it's just obvious to so tens of millions of Americans who, again, wonder why the most fabled and highest rated TV news show in the history of North America is populated by correspondents who just are hostile to. conservatives. It's just a, it's just kind of baffling for a lot of people in America. She also, I saw another quote. She was on with like Bill Moyer. And again, this is someone who's seen as a straight, neutral journalist. This was right after the Reagan administration,

I think someone asked, I think Moyer asked if she was, she missed, she missed Ronald Reagan. And I think she said as a television journalist, yes, as an American citizen, no. And then went on to, you know, keep covering politics for decades afterwards. And nobody's supposed to bat an eye. But What greats me is her talking to somebody who's very much a product of the environment that Leslie Stahl helped create, which is people feeling like they're being lied to straight to the camera a year after a year by people who purported to be neutral, but we're bringing their own values that are not neutral to the table. And that, to me, I'm not asking you necessarily to weigh on in this, Mark, but I'm just saying

to me that feels more insidious. Yeah, no, I'll weigh in on it. Again, I think there's, it's, in the view of many people who's views I value, it's the biggest reason Donald Trump won both in 2016 and 2024. This just masquerade ball of allegedly objective journalists doing things like covering up for Joe Biden. It would have been a great 60 Minutes piece to do in 2022 about the fact that Joe Biden never talked to the media and never had cabinet meetings and never was, you know, rarely doing events late at night. That would have been a great investigative piece by 60 minutes, but they didn't do it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And Leslie Saw has instead

been, you know, at events talking about how worried she is about the press and all of that under Trump. So, Mark, what is your take on whether CBS has changed or how CBS has changed, whether it's changed since the Ellison, Free Press, Barry Weiss takeover? How do you think it's been? Too soon to say. Yeah. Okay. There's some limited data, but I think we know it. But I'm a big fan of Barry's and I think it will change. I think it will become less liberally biased. But I think it's hard to make that judgment now. You know, Barry doesn't want a network that is pro-Trump or pro-Republican or pro-Maga. She wants a network that's fair, and we're all points of view of represented.

So that means there will be stories on the Barry White CBS News that the president doesn't like. She's not going to be a propaganda network. She's going to her fair network. It looks like status just broke that Tony DeCopal is going to be the next. anchor of CBS Evening News. Obviously, Nora O'Donnell stepped down from that. Sounds like maybe O'Donnell wanted to go back into that role. What do you make of DeCopal taking or getting this role? He very prominently, and people immediately remember this in the context of the Barry White's conversation, stepped in and slammed Tana Hassee Coates.

I would say very, I did an appropriately critical interview with Tana Hossi Coates, though it was one that you definitely felt where DeCopold stood on it coming through. What do you make of it? I mean, he's a relatively young guy for that job, if you look at history. He's, he's been doing the morning show. And that one interview set him apart from most people, because as you said, it wasn't some like, you know, revolutionary or, what's the word, revelatory moment. He just, He just asked the guy some tough questions, but in the context of liberal morning shows, it stood out. And I wish him luck because it's been a long time since anyone's had that job for CBS in the evening and been able to, you know, get significant ratings.

So he's going to have to break the jinx if he's going to do well. All right. Back to the Marjor Taylor Green of it all. So in this interview, Stahl is basically grilling her on what changed, what the president has said to her. Marjor Taylor Green refused actually to share the message that she got from President Trump because she said it was so nasty. She said J.D. Vance, when she sent J.D. Vance, the same message, she sent Trump about threats towards her son. Since she had this divorce with Donald Trump politically, J.D. Vance said that they would look into it. Trump sent her back something that she said was so nasty.

She didn't even want to share it. So now that we are approaching, I guess, roughly the last month here of Marjorie Taylor Green's tenure in Congress, where does she stand, Mark? Well, I think it's as open now as it was Friday night, a few, you know, last week, week before last when she and then she was going. This could range anywhere from. We never hear from her again unless we happen to take a CrossFit class in Georgia. Or she could, you know, try to become a key player in national politics, or at least in statewide Georgia politics. I lean my instinct, my spidey sense says it's going to be more the former, that she enjoyed a pretty good ride as being close to the president. but sheared from his force field, I think it's going to be difficult for her to enjoy the kind of

recognition and power and influence that she had. What do you think this has done, if anything, to the MTG wing of MAGA? Because she's not alone. I don't know exactly how big the numbers are. But she's not alone of people in MAGA who, from the populist right, are concerned about the Trump administration. Now, the way she's handled it by going on 60 Minutes and the view and see. CNN to take shots at the president was quite obviously ill-advised.

I don't think in her case that it reflects some desire to be loved by the liberal media. I don't think if she wanted to be loved by the liberal media, she would be taking those shots at Leslie Stahl or the ladies on the view. I mean, she's gotten some really good digs in the view and at Leslie Stahl there in that last clip. But that is what a lot of Trump people are saying. They're looking at this. They're very suspicious of her motives and I guess I don't blame them. Yeah, I mean, she's never going to be a favorite of people on the left. I don't think it really does much for MAGA grassroots.

I think elite people, like people in public life and elective office, I think, will take from this that if you cross the president, it could cost you your job. And so there was never much enthusiasm for going after Donald Trump or to stand up to him in public. But I think the extent that there had been kind of burblings on things like Epstein and some of the other issues, I think it's going to be less likely. but not impossible, particularly for more established Republicans who are more likely to be standing up to him now on things like what's going on at the Pentagon. I think MAGA Republicans will see this

as a warning that your power, if you're a MAGA Republican, emanates from His Majesty as opposed to your own connection to the grassroots. Right. And it's not, it doesn't matter if you are kind of grassroots MAGA, which is different than, of course, as you were just saying, that's different than in the past when it's been a kind of establishment Republican breaking with Trump. It's different when it's MAGA. And I guess the answer that we're getting here is it doesn't matter. He's in charge. He is MAGA.

He sets the terms. Yeah. That's why I call them His Majesty. His Majesty. Okay. Before I let you go, Mark, that, so the Marjorie Taylor Green of it all, she, she, uh, hmm, do you think she could have a lot of success? I mean, you mentioned potentially wanting to go into Georgia politics.

Do you think there's something down the road for Marjorie Tellegrine that's viable or has she kind of burned the bridges? What does it look like going forward? I think she's burned them again. I think she could run an outstanding CrossFit outlet in the right city in Georgia. But I just, I'm skeptical that she's going to have the capacity without the support of the president. And I doubt she'd ever have it again to build what you would need to build to have a successful, really powerful, independent career. But she could try, but I'm just, I'm skeptical of it because so much of her prominence or energy, her mojo derived from her association with the president and the movement.

Now, Nancy Mace penned a scathing op-ed in the New York Times today, taking on House Speaker Mike Johnson. We've heard Elise Stefanic go after Mike Johnson. We've heard Marjor, Deller Green, go after Mike Johnson. Not the best look for the ladies of the House JOPP conference. I will say that. But I've heard people who share substantive criticisms. I was surprised at actually the level of substance and the Nancy May's time's up, to be honest. So that dovetailed with a Jake Sherman report that some 20 Republicans could be considering retirement in the midterm. I'm curious, Mark, if you've heard the same rumblings. Yeah, I mean, we'll see what happens over the next couple weeks, which is when we typically see retirements. Now, if it's a Republican retiring in a

Ruby Red District, then they'll be replaced by another Republican. But it does show the mindset that they think they're going to be in the minority, which is no fun. And so for a lot of members who may well retire, whether they serve at their term or not, the thought of coming back to being in the minority rather than go and spend time with grandkids or getting one last burst of private sector activity in, just the mismatch in terms of what's appealing and what's not, it's pretty clear. Hmm. And do you think there was a demoralization or is there a demoralization happening? Because I do think with Stefanic, there's a lot more going on. She's salty about what happened with her in leadership after the UN ambassador gig was pulled out from under her. And then with Nancy Mace, there's just so much going on that we can't even begin to scratch the surface of what is going on. And Marjorie Taylor Green has these populous kind of critiques of Trump. Are you hearing this outside of those three? There's some others. But I think, you know, looking at them case by case,

little bit idiosyncratic. There's some overlap, but it's mostly each of them has their own complaints, their own grievances, and Speaker Johnson has done a miraculous job so far, but at some point you run out a rope with some of these issues and some of these people, and for him, unfortunately for him, it's happened with a lot of high profile people in a very short period of time. Mark, I thought this is where we were going with the interview. I don't know if you saw this video at Reagan Airport, I'm sorry, National Airport of HHS Secretary Robert of Kennedy Jr. today. Played this on my show today, too. It's very compelling, although I prefer the Sean Duffy. So who do you think did it better? Who did the best? Duffy, I mean, Kennedy's head barely got to the

bar. Duffy's sort of of the bar. And Duffy, I think Duffy wears a, like a 31 waist. Guys, the guy's just tiny. someone in the chat is asking how much you bench you don't have to tell us mark but let it be known the people are wondering i'm more of a curl guy more of a curl guy all right well uh we'll let you get back to the curls mark mark is editor in chief of two-way host of next up with mark hoppern on the mk media network from megan kelly thank you so much for taking time tonight mark really appreciate it ho ho happy holidays thank you for hosting me yes anytime all right quick break and then we'll be right back with more.

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All right. As you probably gleaned from the last segment, I am in the chat. I decided to just pull it up tonight. So I'm looking at what all of you are saying. Let it be known. I'm looking at what all of you are saying. Of course, I'm not able to track every, every comment. But someone says here, that's the first time I've seen Emily acknowledge the chat.

anytime we have a pre-recorded interview, I'm always in the chat. I'm always hanging out with you guys because I have nothing else to do, frankly, well, we have a pre-recorded interview, and you guys are going to hang. So, thanks for being in the chat, appreciate it. I'll maybe see, I'll take questions if we have time. I did want to get to this clip of Tish Hyman, who you probably remember. I mean, Megan covered this story a lot and with good reason, because Tish Hyman, is a singer and made a lot of news recently.

She's been asking Eric Swalwell questions. She just asked, it was yesterday, Rokana questions, and you probably remember Tish Hyman from the big gym controversy. Hyman is the Gold's Gym in Beverly Hills. You remember this? This was just like it was last month and the month before time has no meaning. anymore, but there's a convicted domestic abuser transitioning in the locker room with Tish Hyman. Tish Hyman has filed complaints against this convicted abuser in the women's

locker room, a locker room accused the abuser of exposing himself, harassing her in the locker room. Just a crazy story. And Hyman has clearly just been overwhelmed with the emotions that come along with this type of experience, especially, you know, Tish Heimann is not your typical, like, GOP voter and how this experience has been refusing to stay silent about it and went to a town hall, a Rokana town hall. And I have to say, I know Rokana. I like Rokana. And the reason I find the story to be so interesting is that, Rokana has tried to bring the Democratic Party, kind of to help the Democratic Party transcend the culture war, no pun intended, with the transcend language. But really, that's what Ro has tried to do, is said if Democrats talk about populist affordability meat and potatoes type issues, he did that before, of course, the Zoron campaign, he's Bernie aligned and comes to it from that vantage point after 2024. for Bernie Sanders and Alexandra Casio-Cortez went on their fighting oligarchy tour in red states, red areas, at some of the stops.

And they were bringing out pretty big crowds and they were not talking about the culture war that won't surprise you at all, but it's very different than the Sanders campaign in 26th, 2020, or the Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the language that she was using, the sort of faculty lounge language that she was using all the time.

Now, I'm not talking about whether their beliefs have changed, but I am saying that, But Roe, Congressman, obviously, from Silicon Valley, one of the wealthiest districts in the entire country, talks about that all of the time and is not afraid to tell his donors basically where to shop it, he's tried to be kind of a voice of reason on culture war issues and to have the, to lead with affordability, meat potatoes, kind of populist issues, fighting oligarchy, all that type of stuff. Here's what happened when yesterday, Tish Hyman confronted Rokana on the trans question at a town hall. If you're going to vote for anyone, make sure that they're sitting up on the base because they're not. And if you're not aware, we are all protected, going back and right now there to be a man in there. He said, I'm a woman, and that's okay. Now, I know none of you think that's okay.

Thank you so much. Well, I appreciate you said, I'm a perspective. I believe in safety. also believe that in this country, we recognize the dignity and rights of every person to pursue happiness. They are men. We need to stop with the malarkey. They're men. Stop making excuses for growing men, going in women's restaurant. I've had it up to here. You're calmly lying and saying that it's okay. That's what you're saying. When you say that, you're saying it's okay. And I need you to say it's not okay for men to be in the women's locker room.

All right. So this clip is really instructed because it tests one of my central political theories, is that the trans issue when it comes up is a litmus test for swing voters on the credibility, integrity of a candidate in question because the vast majority of Americans do not believe, and I mean, we're talking the vast majority of Americans do not believe that Tish Hyman should have to share a locker room with a domestic abuser man exposing himself and the like. definitely nobody believes that a gold's gym should make life hard for Tish Hyman when she talks about what happened to her and tries to prevent it from happening again or to other people. But more importantly, your average swing voter, and certainly your average Republican voter, does not believe

that men and women are interchangeable and that a man who transitions literally becomes a woman because he has literally aligned himself, as they will argue, with his biological mental sex. Again, this is the argument that you hear. Most Americans do not buy it, and that's because it's logically ridiculous. It's not true. And I'm happy to talk to people who believe that it's true. I think they have interesting theories about sex and gender. I think they're pretty clearly wrong.

I think this is politically toxic. I think it's an esoteric, like, faculty lounge conversation that used to be gripping because it kind of tested what we thought we knew about sex and gender. And it's, I was going to say fun to read Judith Butler, but it's absolute hell to read Judith Butler. So I'm glad I caught myself before Miss Speaking. But, you know, going back to De Beauvoir and René Foucault and gender performativity

from Butler and all of those people, that used to be where this was confined to. And then it escaped the lab setting and everybody saw it for what it was. And when elected Democrats are unable to just say a simple thing, even though this issue is not what most people are voting on, I think it's almost an insurmountable hurdle with, it's not true in every race, but I'm just saying this as a kind of general rule. I really think it's almost an insurmountable hurdle with many swing voters in tight race. where Republicans play up this issue and make voters think about the issue. That, you know, and I don't mean play up in a Republicans pounce or cease type of way because I think it should be an issue because I think women are going to be affected by these

policies that Democrats, in my opinion, are very much on the wrong side of. So I don't begrudge. I'm not saying Republicans are exploiting it. But when they, I think rather cleverly, forced Democrats to confront this, like with the calm lives for the day them ad. But this has happened in states around the country. When they, and races around the country, when they force Democrats to confront that issue and talk about it, I think it does really become a litmus test for a lot of swing voters because it looks like people are lying.

It looks like Democrats are lying. Like they're telling you something that they don't fully believe that doesn't reflect their deeply held beliefs. And it just feels like they're lying or dancing around the time. truth for the sake of special interest groups. So it's not just that everyone is going out to vote on trans issues, and it's not just that, you know, this is an issue. Because America's actually complicated views on, you know, whether adults should be able to transition and the reality of gender dysphoria and all of that. But when you're talking about men and women's locker rooms,

boys and girls sports. These are roughly 80, 20 issues. And if the, if a Democrats not willing to say this stuff is wrong, full stop, because men cannot become women, that is, I really think, a litmus test. And I don't know, I haven't talked to Roe about whether he's thinking about running in 2028. I think this would be, I'm sure there are people in conference rooms, like over a in Democratic campaigns as they're building right now, trying to figure out, and maybe James Tolariko and Jasmine Crockett are among them, but trying to figure out how to talk about this issue in a way that doesn't alienate voters and doesn't become a sort of central litmus test believability issue. Because this, again, I just think it's so powerful because you can bet Republicans,

maybe some dem primaries, we'll see. But you can bet Republicans are, going to play this up with every Democrat who doesn't commit to ending the madness of putting men in women's prisons. That's something that happens at a fairly large scale in California, putting men and women's shelters, as has happened in Alaska and other places, putting men in women's locker rooms, boys and girls' sports, which has happened virtually everywhere. Democrats need a sense of moral clarity on this issue, and it has to be based on what they actually believe. Otherwise, it will be a litmus test for many, many voters, probably too many voters. Now, Roe isn't really in a swing district, so he's not at risk. But I'm, I just think that

interaction with Tish Heiman, again, who is far from your average GOP voter, where Tish Heimann's like bubbling over the top, boiling over with anger because of what she experienced. I think that really resonates. And I think it's better for the country, to be honest, if Democrats, from Roe to James Salarico to Seth Moulton and Gavin Newsom can just come down with some moral clarity and say men cannot become biological, literal women. And we are not going to encourage laws that treat sex in that way because it sets women back and it puts women in danger. And it's just wrong. It's just wrong. So some thoughts on Tish Heimann's interesting confrontation with Rokana in that clip because I do find it to be something that is going to be confronted now that the midterm cycle is, oh man, I keep saying we're like a month away.

All right. So I am looking at the chat right now, by the way, looking at the chat right now. A lot of nice things. It's okay if they're not nice. But just before we go, I'll take a question or two in here. Some of these are funny. Did the brim of her hat get caught in bicycle spokes? This is from Rideshare Beware.

No. I don't know, actually. Shortly after I got this hat, I noticed that it had been ripped and torn up, and I actually don't know how that happened. This is the most expensive hat I own. It's like a completely ridiculous purchase, but I've, I find myself in Aspen over the summer with no baseball hat. And yeah, that's how I ended up with a baseball hat that I'm so ashamed.

It costs this much money. But anyway, 15 years ago, a man would be registered, Barry says, as a sex offender for undressing in a woman's locker room. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Let's see what else we got here. Can that lady run for Congress, please? says Glenn about Tish Hyman. If Tish Hyman wanted a political future, Tish Hyman could definitely have

a political future. I mean, just the, I think one of the reasons Hyman has been so viral is that the emotion is so obviously authentic and the story is so powerful that to see the rage bubbling over the surface to the point where Hyman actually is clearly having to muster some discipline to restrain herself and doing it. That's the other thing, right? Like, Hyman actually is restraining herself. That's, I think, pretty, that's pretty powerful. So if she wanted to do something, she probably could do something politically. It could do something in media. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot could come from Tish Hyman. All right, all right, all right. So that's enough. Thanks for getting in the comments tonight. That was fun. We had a little time, so I have fun with it. All right. We will be back with more

active party on Wednesday. Make sure to subscribe on YouTube wherever you get your podcasts. Check out that reason debate on big tech that Ryan Grimman are going to be doing on Wednesday in the DC area. You can get tickets on the reason website to that. And have a great evening. Everyone look forward to being back here with the Great Marine Callahan. Oh, that's going to be so exciting. I have built up of questions for Marine on Wednesday. So we will see you then. Have a great night, everyone.