After Party with Emily Jashinsky - Dem Tea Party Moment and Why Zohran Worries Hakeem, with Tim Miller, and Why Millennials Love Taylor

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

Emily Jashinsky begins by addressing Wednesday’s tragic shooting at a Minneapolis Catholic school and why prayer is so important to Christians. Then Emily is joined by Tim Miller, Host of “The Bulwark Podcast,” to discuss the new Doug Sosnik memo put out by POLITICO Playbook on the 2026 cycle and why it’s unlikely Democrats will make major gains, if the Democrats are facing their own Tea Party moment, why Hakeem Jeffries may really be hesitant to endorse Zohran Mamdani, plus the ridiculous story of Mamdani’s supporters taking part in a scavenger hunt through the streets of NYC. They also discuss Tim’s evolution from political strategist with Republican campaigns including Jeb Bush 2016 and John McCain 2008. Then Emily talks about one of the biggest cultural stories of the year…the engagement of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce, and why it matters so much to millennials. Finally, Emily checks our viewer mailbag to answer some of your burning questions. PreBorn: Help save a baby go to https://PreBorn.com/Emily or call 855-601-2229. Masa Chips: Go to https://MASAChips.com/AFTERPARTY and use code AFTERPARTY for 25% off your first order.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to AfterBready, everyone. I have a big smile on my face because I was just like in our virtual backstage place with our guest, who's the one and only Tim Miller. He's the host of the Bullwork podcast. We're going to bring Tim in in just one moment because we have a lot to get to. Tim actually interviewed our favorite politician on the show, Hakeem Jeffries recently and got the better of him in an exchange on Zoran Mamdani. I want to talk to Tim also about the Mamdani scavenger hunt. That was, I mean, just a sight to behold throughout New York City over the the weekend. So we're absolutely going to get to that. We're going to get to a new memo that's bouncing around Washington, D.C. with some very interesting information for Democrats. And also, I really just want to talk to Tim about his background, what it's been like over the past 10 years as he's gone from a Republican strategist to, as I mentioned, the host of the bulwark podcast and somebody who is enormously critical of the Republican Party. So we will get to that in just one moment. Before we do, I do have a couple of thoughts on the tragedy roiling Minneapolis right now. Obviously, you've heard by now that there were two students

killed in a shooting in Minneapolis earlier today. We are still learning a lot of information about the shooter. So there's going to be much more to be said about what happened today in Minneapolis. There are still some little kids from this Catholic school that are in the hospital. The shooter did killed themselves on the scene. So we'll get into all of that, I'm sure, in the days to come. But for now, I just have a brief reaction to Minneapolis mayor Jacob Fry, who had this to say at a press briefing after the tragedy. These were Minneapolis families. These were American families. And the amount of pain that they are suffering right now is extraordinary. And don't just say this is about thoughts and

prayers right now. These kids were literally praying. It was the first week of school. They were in a church. These are kids that should be learning with their friends. They should be playing on the playground. They should be able to go to school or church in peace without the fear or risk of violence and their parents should have the same kind of assurance. So Jacob Frye, obviously a Democrat who was supportive of more gun control. And, you know, we can all agree that these kids still should be playing on the playground. One of the things that really irked me, and I think it probably upset a lot of people too, maybe even some people in the Minneapolis area, whether they're on the right or the left, is this idea that what is offered after tragedies like this is only thoughts and prayer. He used

the word in that quote, just. He said this is not just about thoughts and prayer. That's actually also a sentiment that everybody can agree with. It sets up a giant straw man to say that people only believe thoughts and prayers are the answer to this problem. Now, I understand his deep frustration in that moment. I understand the frustration of people who support more gun control. Actually, you know, in some ways, I think there are ways that we can, or in some ways, I think there are policies that can reform our gun laws and we can rethink our gun laws in certain ways. And we don't have to get into that right.

right now. But the point is, if you say thoughts and prayers after a mass shooting, virtually nobody is saying that shouldn't mean, for example, you have to have tighter security. The doors, you know, should lock to the front of the school, which is a sad state of affairs anyway. But basically, everyone would agree on something like that. Now, I'm not saying it's the right answer, but I'm saying nobody is saying we can just pray away tragedy, that prayer is the only shield. I mean, that is not biblical. Read the book of Job. Read Paul, who talks about glory in suffering, somebody who suffered enormously. That is not what Christians are saying when they're saying thoughts and prayers. It's not a matter of just. And so I think hearing that from Jacob Frye, after some of the early evidence suggested that there is a targeting of Christians in this case, and by the way, little Catholic kids were shot and killed while they were praying, as he says, there. To actually, I think, make a disingenuous straw man article about, a disingenuous straw man argument about thoughts and prayers, no matter how frustrated you are, the world is better

with prayer. And to denigrate prayer is not only, I think, politically silly, it's a cheap hit on people of faith. And, you know, people who are praying don't believe that they will be shielded from earthly tragedy by praying or doing good works. He can make his point about God. control and that is fine and I expect he will continue to do so without a jab at this question of thoughts and prayers or at people's instinct to offer thoughts and prayers so I wanted to kind of get that one off my chest because we hear from a lot of folks Jen Saki also repeated the line again I get your frustration and I fully understand that people are irritated when Republican politicians do not agree with gun control legislation do not agree do not come to the

table and want to increase gun control. I completely understand that frustration and it is a very difficult discussion and a very emotional debate. We don't have to have it here to, I think, point out that nobody, literally nobody is saying thoughts and prayers on their own will slice, that there aren't other steps we can take, whether they're with gun control legislation, whether they're with parenting, whether they're with school security, all those other things. Some Republicans think there should be more teachers that are armed. Again, I don't know. I'm sure most people in this country disagree with that, but it's also a compliment with an E, C-O-M-P-L-E-M-E-N-T, to the thoughts and prayers by their own argument.

So it doesn't, even that undercuts the argument that this is, quote, just about thoughts and prayers, as Mayor Jacob Frye did today and I think failed a real leadership test. So on that very sad and tragic note, it's Wednesday night. We're live here at 10 p.m. as we are every Monday and Wednesday night. And I'm happy to have Tim Miller, host of the Bullwark podcast, joining us on this Wednesday evening, Tim. Thank you for being here. Hey, girl, happy to do it. That's tough to transition out of.

I know. You know, these are just brutal days sometimes. Yeah, they really are. And Tim, actually, I'm curious, maybe we just stay on this topic right now because you have, I hope you can, people probably know you from the bulwark. Podcast is massively successful. And people probably know you as a Trump critic at this point. Some people might not know your full backstory.

And we knew each other when you were back in your Republican consultant days. When you probably had a very different opinion on gun control. Maybe I shouldn't say very different, but you probably had a different opinion on on gun control and we're surrounded by people all of the time who did. So as you've thought about issues like this and many others, you're not one of those people who just flipped and became anti-Trump, but didn't sort of change at all politically. Like you've actually undergone a political evolution. So what's it been like for you to think back on how you saw issues like this, but also even just like healthcare, like big government versus small government,

those different things now that you're on the other side of it. I don't know how much my view of big or small government has changed. I think my priorities have changed about what is important. I do think, I think it's weird. Some people who act as if like it is a virtue to, you know, to be a never-trumper who maintained every single position you had before you spoke out against the president of a party. And I just, that doesn't never make sense to me. I was like, look, If somebody that I find, just to be candid, repulsive in like almost every way, and someone I find totally unacceptable in every way became the leader of the party that I was working for, like maybe I was missing some things other than just that.

Like maybe it was about stuff more than Trump. And, you know, and so I definitely did. I reflected in evolved views on various issues. Some things I've remained the same on. I certainly will get into Zoran. I certainly have some of the time. It's not like a full blue pill on a variety of issues. I had Zoran on and gave him the business on a few things.

And, you know, but like, I think all of us, I think maybe this is something that could resonate with everybody, which is particularly people who are really involved in politics, which is you have a few issues that you're really acutely passionate about, right? And a lot of times particularly when we were younger, like those are the issues that drawed us to one party or another. Like I was super, you know, into American exceptionalism and science shining city on the hill and smaller government. and like letting in supporting entrepreneurs my dad was a real kind of traditional don't roll your eyes like up from his bootstraps guy right like a couple of the on some of those issues i was i was genuinely drawn to the party and then you kind of backfill on some of the others where like you don't have as strong of views you're like well i guess i'll just i guess i have the same view as other is these people that i respect you know that i look up to in this party have on those issues and um you know i mean i don't think that deeply about them so i don't That's kind of how I felt like on guns. And I was always a little bit squishier than other Republicans on guns. I remember getting in a fight with your boy, Sean Spicer, at the RNC, actually, when I was a little bit older. And he was my boss at the time.

Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, it was after Newtown. And I was, you know, I was a party spokesperson, so I wasn't going to say this publicly. But I was in his office, we were working through statements. And I was like, you know, I mean, do we really need high capacity magazines? I mean, I get it. I get protecting yourself.

but like does anybody, is anybody ever in a situation where they really need 15 rounds to protect themselves? Like, I don't think, I shouldn't we explore things such as this? Like, might that have helped save more kids if, like, the guy had to reload more times? Like, it was just kind of like an off-the-cuff conversation and it created a little consternation in the office. And I realized, you know, maybe I should have realized earlier. I was a little more out of step than I thought with the Republicans. But based on the pushback, I got to that. But anyway, long story short.

This is the issue. Whenever anybody asked me, what have you changed your mind on most during the Trump era? the answer really has nothing to do with Trump is just the gun stuff and I don't know it might be a combo of being a dad now and the fact that I was never really a big gun person myself and I'm not really trying to go steal people's guns but I just think the culture in our country around guns

is really kind of sick and I think that like you don't see you just don't see this stuff in other places and I don't know maybe I'm just too I've become too soft or whatever but I just the Evaldi thing really hit me and these images today. And I'm just like, I don't, I don't know. I think that we need to have

some kind of reckoning and reflection on our cultural, um, dittization of guns in this country that is really different than other countries. And we see a really far worse result. And, um, and I think I'm more open to changes on that that I would have been obviously back when I was a Republican flag. So the Spicer anecdote is, um, really interesting because I actually recommend your book to people who are looking at a glimpse inside of what DC is actually like, because it's written as a memoir, and you reflect on moments exactly like that, where somebody who's in the position as a spokesperson

for the Republican Party at that point is in this very unusual position for professional reasons, because it's your 9 to 5, or at that time it's probably like 5 to 11, going out there, and making an argument that they don't necessarily believe in for, as you would have justified it at the time, the greater good. That is such an interesting, I mean, now you're in media. And I'm curious for your sense of this as somebody who's like

crushing it in new media. And from the kind of center, which is where there's like probably the biggest dearth of new media superstars, it's all about authenticity. I feel like that's what makes you successful. And that's the opposite of where you came from. Yeah, you're making me blush, Emily. I was expecting a fight. No, I'm just shocked at world foul. Thank you. It's a much better fit for me. Honestly, I love it. It's good. I feel bad now because you get asked to speak to college classes and stuff. Kids are very excited about going into politics. I'm kind of like, I have to give them an answer that I don't know that they want to hear, which is like, in retrospect, it was kind of soul crushing for me to do PR and to do spin for candidates. And I kind of compartmentalize the soul crushing part. And I feel like it's been really good holistically for me to be away

from that and just to tell people whatever I think. And, you know, and the worst consequences are that people get mad. I don't know. People got really, the bulwark was, as you mentioned, as being centrist, was obviously we had a lot of big Biden. To the extent that Biden superfans existed, a lot of them were bullwork consumers.

Right. Right. And I was furious at him, you know, essentially like from the debate all the way through now, all the way through today. I think that his behavior has been appalling, like from debate night all the way through today

and maybe prior. But, you know, and so you get people pissed at you or whatever in the comments. But that's, I don't know, I kind of enjoy that. It's kind of freeing. That was just way different. That's way different to like feeling you have to say something, feeling you have to lie for somebody,

have to spin, have to do things that are outside of your values. So, I don't know. And there's, you know, beginning in politics, especially if you, you know, have candidates you care about. and there's a good reason to get into politics. Of course, I think that there's a lot of excitement in being in politics,

and you can do good things for sure. But I don't know, I've loved this change. I feel like it's much more me where I can just do radical candor instead of bullshitting. And I think I would have been a bad White House press secretary anyway, even if any of my terrible candidates at one. You can, anyone watching,

when I rewatch the clips of my interviews, like against my will on Twitter or whatever, I'm like, look at my face. You know, you know exactly. exactly what I think about the person I'm interviewing just based on my face. It doesn't matter what I'm going to say. So it was probably not a good fit for me anyway. I love that.

That reminded me, actually, while you were talking about now being asked to go to college campuses and give advice to students who are super jazz about politics, I think one of the first times we met Tim was we were on this panel. This is the headline at GW Today. Successful alumni offer pointers on Washington careers. Here you are. there's me and my full cable news drag. Is that Gabby? I can't really see you.

That's Gabby. Yep. 2017. What a time. But Tim, when you look at people who are in those positions now, do you think they are acting morally? That is a question I think about a lot of my friends, some of whom you know who work in comms and are flacking, who, you know, we know particularly with Trump is a very good example that people have to go out and defend tweets

with a dead straight face about I don't know what, like name it, Seth Myers one in the morning yesterday. As funny as that is, people have to go out there and defend that stuff and people defending right now like the Intel deal, for example, I'm sure they never would have defended in 2012.

Maybe they've changed, maybe they haven't, but how do you think about people in those positions today? Yeah. And I think it's complicated, right? You know, the advice I do give in that, in this sense of like you want to go into politics and you want to be in it is I just do stuff that's within your integrity I don't know it's spinning for your boss on the 10% Intel deal that's probably not outside my integrity I could probably do that I feel like that was not you know I don't know you know what I mean like what the hell there's certain you're never going to

work for can't you agree with 100% so there so if you do believe that that the nation and and people that, you know, live here are going to be better served by them winning and and on balance. It's a good thing. And you're not going out there lying. You're not defending something that goes against your, your kind of moral principles or whatever. Then I think that you can do those jobs morally, yes. But I think that increasingly that's hard now.

And I think that for me, like a lot of my lost friendships, I'm glad it's not us, Emily, but a lot of my lost friendships of people are still in those jobs because at some level they kind of know that I'm judging them morally and I know and you know and even if I try to keep the friendship they know and I know that they know it's one of those things where like creates awkwardness you know when when there becomes a moral valence there because I didn't really feel that way that much like in the Romney Obama race maybe I should have for various reasons but I didn't like feel like there was a big moral valence in that choice. I think that there is now in a lot of cases, you know, and particularly for me. And I think that some people on the left feel this way about Gaza. Yeah. And I had Jake Sullivan on the pod today. And I was like really trying to be conscious of the fact that like, I mean, I have listeners who are Zionists who care about the hostages who have moral issues with him based on that side. And obviously there are a lot of people who are on the other side feel like that he and the administration is complicit.

and the humanitarian disaster in Gaza. And so, you know, there are odd people who feel that might be an issue for them that is one where, like, they can't work for somebody within their integrity. I kind of, for me, it's more acute right now in immigration. Like, I think that a lot of the immigration stuff and the way the people are being treated is just too far beyond the pale for me. I think maybe some people on the right might feel that way about abortion. So, you know, at some level, if you have...

you know, if you're not a total nihilist about everything, if you believe that things matter, right, then you might at some point come into conflict with with something your candidate says or does. And I just encourage people at that point, like, to use myself as an example, be like, life goes on. You can leave.

Like, it's okay to leave. You don't have to, if you don't feel comfortable, if you, you know, you don't have to leave in a huff. You don't have to tell the New York Times or Megan Kelly Network or whatever that you're leaving, but like, or you can if you want to. You should. Yeah, you should maybe, depending on,

on the situation, but that's kind of how I view it. I think in a lot of places it's gray and in some places it's not that great. Yeah, that's interesting too. Actually, the conversation you had with Jake Sullivan, from what I've seen of it so far, was fascinating and well done. And one of the reasons, maybe you and I coming from more traditional right backgrounds, for me at least, this is a great example of how if you get out of the right-wing media bubble, which sounds very cliched.

But I feel like maybe the most important thing that happens when you challenge yourself by talking to people and talking to audiences that aren't particularly in that bubble is you learned things that you didn't know you didn't know. And that has been a wild experience because you have to find people to talk to who are the best faith representation of an argument you disagree with or that you don't actually even, you're not even aware of. You've dismissed. and I don't know

I actually think that's what's fascinating about what's happening in independent media and podcasts. What has that happened for you and anything in particular? I think that happened for me in Israel in Gaza. Yeah. It's just been a tough one for me. I don't know. I because the passions

are so high about it. For good reason, honestly. Like, all right? And I you know, in classic centristy, Tim way, I don't know. I, I, I I think it's less tough right now. I mean, I think that Israel's behavior right now is pretty hard to defend, just given the fact that they don't really seem to have a plan or a strategy.

And I think the threats to them are much smaller. I think what Jake was trying to point out today, which I'll just defend him on, is he says the attacks from the left that he is receiving about supporting Israel in late 2023 and early 2024. It's like, well, Israel had just had this horrific terrorist attack against them. Well, on their other border, they have Hezbollah. It's just shooting rockets at them. You have Iran paying for proxies, you know, against them. And they just have all these acute threats all over the place. And, you know, like, and then all these hostages that are lost.

And they were in a really challenging situation, right? And, like, you saw and Iran kind of too. And just horrifically with regards to Gaza. But, you know, like, if you're in there. So I think that's why right now it feels just so much more acute. But I felt like at the time it was, I don't know, I felt compelled by the arguments by both sides a lot of times. And I think that the one thing, my one North Star and the whole thing was my one skepticism of Israel for the start was, I just don't, I don't think they have a plan. I never heard a good plan executed and I was getting some Iraq flashbacks.

It's not Iraq in a lot of different ways. But what was the plan out of it? And I think that skepticism, which was better articulated from people way left of me, at the beginning, has turned out to be right. Yeah, and tragically, there are hostage families that would agree with that sentiment because some of the hostages were killed in the incursion. So we don't necessarily have to open up that full can of forms. Right, way down Israel, the Israel path now.

Right. We're at the hotel lobby. But this is a conversation. I just think that wasn't happening in. in media 10 years ago. And the fact that you, this is about to get met up, we're talking to Jake Sullivan. And then I was talking to you about how you talked to Jake Sullivan. These are just different threads being pulled at that weren't really being pulled out outside of maybe like tune in and the bar scene in DC before. Or the blog is fear maybe. There's some of that

was happening a little bit. Yeah. That's a good point. Well, Tim, I want to get to you actually on this Politico memo or this Doug Sossack memo, before we do the So quick break for an ad, and well, Tim drinks his beer or water, whatever it is. Coca-Cola Classic. Oh, it's a Coca-Cola Classic. Hashtag Maha. Now, over the years, I have been clear that I'm not just pro-birth. I'm pro-life and being pro-life means standing with mothers,

not only before their baby is born, but long after. And that is why I partner with pre-born and partner very proudly with pre-born. Pre-born doesn't just save babies. They make motherhood abundantly possible, which is so important. They provide free ultrasounds. and share the truth of the gospel with women in crisis, and then they stay with real practical help, including financial support for up to two years after the baby is born.

This is what true Christ-centered compassion looks like, not just for the baby, before the mother, too. And here's where you can make a difference. Just $28 provides a free life-saving ultrasound. One chance for a mother to see her baby. When she does, she is twice as likely to choose life. Pre-board is trying to save 70,000 babies this year. So don't just stay your pro-life.

Live it, help save babies and support mothers to do. Go to preborn.com slash Emily or call 855-601-229. That's preborn.com slash Emily. Happy to say we are joined once again by Tim Miller, host of the Bullwork podcast. And Tim, I have to get your take on this Doug Sostic memo that was bouncing around Washington today, broke in Politico playbook.

And man, some of this data is really rough for Democrats. And I think you have a very interesting perspective on this as somebody who spends a little bit more time with folks in the center and on the left now, but also having seen what happened on the right. So let's go ahead and put up the graphic about split-ticket congressional districts. This is really interesting. Split-ticket congressional districts, according to this memo, and Doug Sosnik, which you mention is a Clinton operative, big-deal pollster.

These memos always make their way everywhere in Washington. So split-ticket congressional districts have nearly disappeared. If you're listening to the podcast and not looking at this graphic, I mean, this decline is just utterly shocking of districts where voting for a presidential nominee from one party and a House candidate from the other has declined, I mean, way more than half since the 50s, but also just in more recent decades as well. We can go along and move to this next graphic about how education level determined voting in the 2024 presidential election. And Tim, I'm really eager to get your take on this one because this is something. people didn't understand fully was happening beneath the surface of the 2012 election, which you worked on. And then you saw this happen in 2016 with Donald Trump. But Republicans won 14 of the 15 least college educated states and Democrats carried 14 of the 15 most college

educated states. And Tim, let's just pause here because I bet a lot of those folks who maybe voted Romney, Clinton, Biden, Harris, are listeners to your podcast. What do you make of all of this? I know, it makes it feel like it wasn't my choice. It was predetermined because it's like my suburban Denver congressional district is like totally represented. It was like a Tom Tancredo district back then. Like a right Magga guy and now it's represented. It's a blow, not even a swing district, it's a blowout, Dem district.

So, yeah, they are. And I think that the 2012 observation is interesting because I remember after that election, Stuart Stevens, who's a fellow never Trump former Republican who was Romney's strategist, you know, was talking about how for Republicans to win they needed to do better in the suburbs with college educated women, like in particular, and also with, you know, non-college Hispanic voters, but also college Hispanic voters. And, you know, his point was, he goes that Romney, I think I'm getting this right, I think Romney got the same amount of non-college white vote in 2012 that Reagan did in his landslide in 84. Right. And his point was like, we lost. And Reagan won in a landslide. So there's just not enough non-college, there's not enough non-college whites out there left. And I hate to bring this up, because of course, too. I was to say, little did he know. He's been right around a lot of things. But, you know, what you didn't consider was, well, what if non-collage white people start voting like black people to for Democrats? Right. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, well, you know, you're in blowout territory for Republicans. So and that's obviously what then proceeded to happen. So, I mean, this is like the central issue for Democrats right now. I mean, like, you know more about how somebody votes based on college attainment than on almost anything else,

demographically. And, you know, I don't, I think that there are some ideas that they have on how to unwind it. But I haven't heard any particularly compelling ones. So let's take a look at this is going to be F3. Democratic Party favorability is at its lowest point in three. three decades, according to the state that Sosnik has co-lated here. And if we move on to the next one, this is where I think this gets really, really interesting because that first one was with the whole, that's with everybody left and right. Democrats now, their voters have a low opinion of their own

party. But if you look at this chart, and I'll explain it again for people who are joining us on the podcast version, Democrats are almost at Tea Party levels. So the low point for Republicans in the last 20 or so years is in 2009 of dissatisfaction with or the favorability with their own party. So Republicans had the low point of favorability for their own party in 2009, which makes sense. That's when the Tea Party kicks off. Democrats are approaching that level of low favorability rating of their own party, Tim. And that is very new for Democrats.

You've talked to Zora Mamdani. You've talked to politicians who are hesitant about voting or endorsing Zoraaamani, probably voting for him too. We'll get to the Hakeem Jeffrey's interview more in a second. But have they realized exactly what they're in for? Because you lived through the Tea Party years in Washington, D.C. And you talked to a lot of Democrats now. My take on this is they have no idea what a whirlwind they're about to read. I don't, yeah.

I mean, they're aware that it's bad. I guess I'd say this. So awareness is the first step towards recovery, you know, the problem. Are they, but like the level of awareness is not, it's not high enough, I guess. I would put it like that. You know, so at least they're having some conversations about it. In some ways, I think that there are some parallels to the Tea Party element about just how the voters are just rabid and desperate for somebody that's a fighter and represents them and they feel unrepresented kind of by the last few nominees. It's not who didn't like Kamala Biden or Hillary, but in some ways that lineup is not so dissonable.

similar from like McCain and Romney to the Republicans, right, just in the sense of like, okay, we were fine to vote for them, but this was, you weren't, we didn't get what we wanted, really, right? And we didn't get things that, like, something that we were really passionate about. And so I think that is there for sure. I think the Democrats needing to be more responsive to their basis of views on certain issues, like one we were just talking about is definitely part of it. One potential difference, though, is, uh, I think, The Democrats' like coalition is more diverse. I don't really necessarily even mean that just like by skin color,

but I just been like old black voters, young black voters are kind of different. They're college, they've got these new suburban, you know, former Republican types. We're talking about that like make up a decent amount of the primary electorate. You've got old liberals.

Like it's kind of diffuse, right? And the groups are kind of unhappy with the party for different reasons, right? Like the lefties are unhappy that the neoliberal have been in charge. the neoliberal are unhappy that the neoliberals have been too big of one. I can't believe you just use the word neoliberal. Yeah, sorry. We have to bleep it out. People shorthand, you know.

So anyway, they're all kind of mad for different reasons where, like, the Republican base is pretty homogenous. And they were, like, all mad for the same reasons, basically, you know, which we could get into. And so I was, I think, a lot easier for, like, Tea Party insurgents to to galvanize a majority and overthrow candidates. I'm like a little bit skeptical that we'll see the same exact thing like on the left that there'll be like a whole group of Zoruns

like overthrowing Democrats all over the country. I don't, I don't, I, that could happen in a few places. I'm not saying there's a zero, you know, but they haven't had their, I guess, wake me up if they had their Eric Cantor moment for the, oh, gee, you'll remember that. Wasn't that AOC though?

No, was that AOC? I don't really think so. Joe Crowley didn't cut it. Eric Cantor would be like if Hakeem got over the, and Eric Cantor was the minority. minority whip. And he was the number two person in the house and he got overthrown by like a no-name teacher, Dave Brat, who was a kind of kook, frankly. And so, you know, if that happens, okay. But I think that there's the Democratic coalition is different in some ways, meaningfully from

the Republican coalition. It makes it a little bit harder for like an insurgent left to overthrow the party. I should have wondered about this. And we will not countenance Dave Bratt slander on this show. That is our number one rule. That's kind of a kook. And you know, you could read that as a compliment. We all are. Depending on how you look at it. That's well said.

On that point, I talked to one of the Texas Democrats who fled to prevent the or in an attempt to prevent the redistricting in that state. And what I think she told me is that she gets along, you know, well, even though she's totally philosophically different with whatever the Texas state Freedom Caucus is. I think it's actually called the Freedom Caucus. but because they agree on this one question, which is that the system is fundamentally broken, that our institutions are broken. And when I asked her if this felt like a tea party movement, she was like enthusiastic.

And she said absolutely yes and went on to explain it's because there's this shared perspective on the institution itself being broken. But now that I think of what you just said, I'm also looking at the graphic we had up on the screen from the SOSIC memo about education level. And when I think about that, it makes me wonder if, you know, you see low institutional trust, my instinct, and I think this is true in the data, but I'd have to go double check, is lowest among the working class. And that is, I mean, when you combine that with education level for Dem voters right now switching, becoming the party of the more affluent, it does make me think that might be a completely different state in terms of like whether you have a rabble-rous movement. that is able to capture a lot of energy and momentum overthrowing Dems if you now have the Bullwark podcast listeners who are in your coalition.

Just like picturing your head the, all right, the Bullard podcast listeners are not exactly everything is broken type people. Maybe some of them. We have different types of folks listen for different reasons, but like the core audience. Like just imagine your head the stereotypical no-kings protester, you know, who's watching MSNBC or whatever. And then imagine you're had like,

the stereotypical, like, lefty populist person, like, showing up for whatever, a Bernie event. Like, is that, like, they're both mad at the Democratic Party, right? But are they going to join together to support? Who are they going to join together to support to overthrow the existing establishment? Right? Like, I just, it's a little bit more complicated. And I think that, you know, part of that is for that reason you're saying. Like, there's a big part of the coalition that's high trust, high education.

and they're not really looking to burn everything down. Like they're looking to burn down the Trump administration. They're not looking to burn down every institution, right? George Conway outside John Bolton's house with this phone live streaming. It's like an Andrew Breitbart of the center, of the Never Trump Center. So actually, let's get to your interview with Hakeem Jeffreys. So this is going to be S2 because in the context of what we were just to say, discussing. I wonder, actually, if this makes Hakeem Jeffries, who is, of course, our favorite

politician on this show for his Instagram page. We love it. Why is he your favorite? His Instagrams are incredible. He photoshopps them in the clumsiest. I've seen a couple of photographs. I guess I haven't really been a devotee of his page, though. So I'll make an effort to look. Yeah. Educate yourself. Do the work, Tim. It's worth But let's take a look here at S2. This is Tim's interview with Hakeem Jeffries. I was a Republican up till two minutes ago, and I'm a capitalist, and I had Zoran on, and I went at him on a variety issues we disagree on.

But, like, it's not really a close call, is it? I mean, you have a corrupt mayor that is doing deals with Donald Trump. You had a guy that had to resign and disgrace had already lost a Democratic primary. It's not a close call, right? Why not just endorse them and then work with him? Well, I think what I can say is. is that he's the only one I'm scheduled to talk to. Okay.

Why not just, let's just get it over with them. You're prolonging the pain, leader. Why not just endorse Zerun? It's not that hard. Listen, listen, I understand. But, you know, it's not like things aren't happening. I was just in Chicago. I was in Texas.

I was in California. We're in the middle of an unprecedented redistricting war. Literally. I know. I don't know. Just do it. Get it out of the way. So is your read on that actually that Hakeem Jeffries is, I mean, a lot of people would look at it and say immediately that he's critical of it. A lot of my friends on the left, progressive left would say he's critical of Zara Mamdani or is hesitant in the case of Zaraamamani because of Israel and his sort of corporate benefactors who are horrified by the prospect of socialism. Is your read on it? And I'm interested in this given our conversation earlier that he actually senses Mamdani is a bad representation.

like Andrew Cuomo or maybe even Eric Adams are just a sort of better representation of where the Democratic Party is. Yeah. I think part of this is caution and just kind of bad political instincts to be honest and I think that some of this is like local New York stuff you know and and and Tim knowing Adams and Cuomo and like not knowing Zoron Zoron comes out of nowhere and there's like ego I think that's part of it but I don't know I since the interview will this you guys can play with this and take it and run with it if you want. I've had some Dems who tell me that privately that like that he, what is real concern in is is what we're just talking about.

His real is that Zoron will not just create problems for him in New York as mayor doing socialist stuff or whatever he might do that might hurt the party's brand, but that he will be like a lightning rod for other Zoron types that will primary his members. look out for and that that is and that that is this concern. I don't actually know that. So I don't want to speak out of fair. I think that would be a legitimate thing for him to be worried about, I guess. I don't think it really explains the strategy you're dealing with it.

But that's, I've heard some scott about that's what his real concern is. I think it's more of that. I don't know. I get, I get Bristle a little bit at the lefty, like, oh, it's A-PAC stuff. It's just like, Hakeem Jeffery is the leader of the party gets a lot of money for a lot of places. You know, I just think it betrays like a lack of understanding about how Washington really works. So it's like, you know, a handful of APEC donors. He's worried aren't going to support the D-T-T-C.

Like the D-T-RUCC is raising money hand over fist, you know. So to me, I think it's more interpersonal, concerned about members, concerned about lefty primaries, maybe some New York stuff. Yeah, the APEC conversation actually reminds me a lot of the NRA conversation. Because the A-PAC conversation becomes a proxy for the larger question of donations from people who are specifically giving to talk to members and have access to talk about the Israel question, just like similar from the NRA or to the NRA. And you actually know the inner workings of this better than NIDU Tim because you were kind of on the other side of it. But do I think it's a special interests and money in politics is a big deal?

Of course, absolutely. I actually think APEC probably should register under FARA. But, you know, and I think APEC has acted awful in some particular races. but there are, I mean, they aren't giving the most money in politics. It doesn't sort of explain. It's not like certain people are completely bought and owned by APEC. They're bought known by like everybody. Yeah, especially somebody like Akeem.

Though I did have to laugh. I see somebody to be the Charleney and the God thing where he called them Apoc Shakur. Apac Shakur. Yeah, shout out to Charlene. That's funny. Funny is funny. But yeah, I don't know. There's a hint.

And I would say there's not Charlemagne per se. But there's a hint of anti-Semitism and some of the stuff. I get a little sensitive about it. It's just like, you know, it's one thing if there's a person that comes in does a big super PAC for you. And like they're, you know, you saw this with crypto. It's for Trump. Jeff, you asked this for some people, TikTok ban. If you have a single donor who has a single issue where they're going to spend 10 million on the race, and you did see this actually in a couple primaries where APEC did the, you know, I think that's Corey Bush, yep. Yeah, I think that's a more legitimate issue to raise. I guess my point is just with Hakeem is the

leader of the Democrat, House Democrats. Like they're, you know, they have money from so many different interests. I just, I just think it's, it's, betrays a lack of understanding of like, what, where the finances are coming from with the House Democrats to think that that's a sole reason that he's doing this, that there's some puppet master thing happening. I don't think that's right. Well, I want to get more of your thoughts on Zora Mamdani. And if we could roll this of the Mom Donnie scavenger hunt, this is a VO, so it'll play on the screen as we talk, but the Zoron campaign hosted a scavenger hunt through New York City over the weekend. And it sounded kind of hokey when he posted about it. And then hundreds of people

showed up and trekked through New York City in August on a Zoran Mamdani scavenger hunt, which, Tim, what the hell? Millennial Pride? Millennial Tringe. That's what it is. These are like Disney adults. These are New York City's Disney adults. What is it? What do you make of this? I'm just saying, my people are finally having the moment.

Disney adults. This has been in charge for so long. No, I'm not a Disney adult. I dislike Disney. I'm not in the Rondasanta's way. Just in the, it's just,

but, you know, this was kind of the, you know, whatever. He's going to be in a kickball league next. It's kind of like an urban, millennial sort of thing.

You know, we're doing Savanger hunts, we're in kickball leagues, we're doing brunch. I think it's just, I think it's that. I don't know. such bad people.

I know. It wasn't great for me. I would not have been out there on the scavenger hunt. You know, I feel like there's some more pressing issues facing the mission. Well, I'm a little bit more worried about the masked cops in the streets. Oh, I thought you were going to say the masked Zoron scavenger. Yeah. If I was going to critique one of them, the scavenger hunt seems like a low level annoyance for me.

Well, so the jumping off point to that is you've talked to Zeromomomani. And I don't mean that. that in a way to deride mom-dani voters. I think probably the average mom-dani voter isn't going to a scavenger hunt because they're probably working two or three jobs, to be honest. And so I actually have no ill will towards the average mom-dani voter. There was some man on the street interviews done after he won of people saying, no, I'm not a socialist, but he's running against Andrew Cuomo. Like, give me a break. But having talked to him, and from your vantage point as a millennial, Tim, what do you make of why people are ultra Zoran fans?

Well, kind of this video, like the video about the halal trucks, it's like so good. I'm kind of capitalist and yimbi, really. Like, you know, he has that a little bit, right? It's like, these guys should be able to sell their halal. It should be cheaper. Like, people should be able to afford it. So, you know, some of his material is good. He's dynamic.

He's personal. I'm sure, I don't know if you feel this way, Emily, but I have kind of a green room. I understand sometimes people are in a bad mood that day. or busy, but I have a little bit of a green room test with politicians. If you can be normal with me for two minutes before, after we talk, that's a good sign for me. Just like not talk

talking points, just like talk like a dude or a, you know, gal. And he had that. Like, he was chill. He's very easy to talk to. I think he was interested in trying to win over full work types, you know, and I had thought about that and come to the pod.

Oh, that's really interesting, actually. It seems like he was. And he had thoughts about like abundance stuff and he thoughts about cutting red tape in various places in New York three one dimension and you know so I don't I don't think that he wasn't changing his views of anything to appeal but I you could tell there are a couple of things that he thought like would be good bridges or whatever and um I don't know like it was my interview that he did that he wouldn't answer to globalize the intifada thing so that ended up kind of overtaking the rest of the interview and becoming the only thing anyone talked about about the interview which I do

think was a bad answer still in retrospect. But I was kind of more interested in the other stuff. Like he definitely, he was not being like I'm a strident DSA. You know, he's like, I have my views, but I also want to work with people, want to make the city actually work, and I care about that. You know, there's like a little bit of a practicality about him that I think gets lost in the parody of the socialist grocery stores and stuff. Right, because he posted in 2020.

I went through his Twitter feed and like in 2020. Oh, he has been horrible posts. And I answer about like two of them. But I mean, we could have done the whole podcast on his old posts. Queer liberation means defunding the police. That's my favorite.

I don't think that one. I probably should have. Incredible. It's so much time. And his, as somebody who's a poster who has some clunkers out there, I'm not sympathetic. But he has some really bad ones.

Like he was really kind of caught up in the awakening. And he is not, he's not doing that at all, actually, which is really noteworthy. And so, I don't know. I think the excitement for him is a combo of Gaza, his, his charisma, fresh face. And I think that's, like, really the main it. And like a lot of the other, I don't think, and I think that there are also some DSA people are very excited to have a DSA person, you know, who's successful for sure. But I don't know, and we'll see, I guess, as the primary season goes on.

But I don't know that it was a sign that like there's this clamoring for socialism among the Democratic left. I think it was more about charisma, focus on certain issues, good, you know, great campaign Iran. Who would we be surprised to the extent you can say this that has passed or failed your green room test? Oh, man. I wish I wouldn't have thought about this. I wish I would have thought about this off the spot. Who, I, like, oh, man. Can I do this?

It feels kind of mean to do it, to do a failed, the green room test with somebody. I have some of this coming straight to mind. Do I have to do it? It's up to you, Tim. I can't make you do anything. Your body, your choice. You can't make me do anything? Hmm.

There was a senator who had a bad moment on another independent media podcast recently that would be well. And that green room situation wasn't great. Again, it could have been a busy day. Um, who, who passes? Um, uh, that's a good question. I like, uh, um, I like that, I like that dude, Pat, there are a lot of kind of like damn house people who are like pretty normie who don't get a lot of attention, you know, like, I think like Pat Ryan was cool. Marie goes in Camp Perez.

I love. Oh, yes. He was chill. I guess that's actually, she passed the greener test with the most fine colors because she is like, fucking doing the podcast. Dude. Outside like her house where she like took a brick from cutting down a tree or. or something and her kids running around. And like she's just BSing.

Very chill. So chill. Very chill. She is the abundance queen that we didn't know we needed. For sure. For sure. I thought, yeah, I was, I was viving out with her with her big time. So I don't know.

I'd have to, I wish I had the list in front of me. We could go down and rank and rank. I have a surprising one actually. Mike Pence, who you would think of as a cookie cutter politician. I don't know if you've had a lot of, like I had a little, not a ton, but he was good in the green room. Yeah, he's actually and you know what, people forget he's a radio host. So he's

actually not bad off the cuff. He's a better politician, I think, that people give him credit for. Jeb would have been a good green room person. He was great. Like my thing with reporters always loved him when I would like say, hey, after the event, like come back to the hotel, we'll have like a scotch with Jeb. Those people always loved him. Scotch with Jeb. Yeah, Scotch with Jeb. He's great. He's hilarious. He's self-depicating. You know, he's

chill, he's like cussing and real and whatever, easy to talk to. But it's like, you know, just didn't translate, really, in front of the camera, unfortunately. Okay, so let me, that's actually the best point to bring this all home. That's going to be my last question for you, Tim, because this is, I mean, what you were just saying about Zora Mamdani, to me, reflects somebody who is clever enough to understand the new media environment in that he had, as a real human being, like authentically thought through what he should be talking about on the Bullwark podcast and how he should be having these conversations. I talked to him in November about winning over Trump voters in New York City, and he had thought about that as well, even back then before

he had his surprise win. And that is just a cleverness. I feel like the Democratic benches is lacking because they've relied so long on the mainstream media channels, like the major media channels, being, you know, relatively sympathetic to them in most cases and didn't build up their own networks. But the fact that Mom Doni is able to do that, and you have this experience with Jeb's charisma not translating in 2016, which was not that long ago, but an incredibly different media environment. What do you make of what's happening with politicians as they try to meet this low institutional trust moment? I think it's a huge challenge. I think it's maybe the Democrats, it's fine not their biggest challenge, but it is certainly their biggest, like, tactical issue,

strategic challenge is that, like, to do. It's a huge challenge. I think, it's, it's, it's a huge. It's, do well in democratic politics. They were, how do I put this? Like there were certain rungs you had to go up the ladder. And they were all things about like being a striver, being a front of the class kid. Just look at the Democratic Congress.

There's just a lot of people who were rule followers and, you know, good at talking points and good at a message. And, you know, there was a lot of valedictorians. I joke a lot. Speaking of this democratic, like at conferences, democracy conferences or whatever. Like, what's your advice? I'm like, stop finding people that like, we're from a town,

you know, was a valedictorian, went to a liberal arts school, went to McKinsey, and then came back home. Like that is, we didn't need no more of those people. Like, they're great people. I don't have anything against any of them. I enjoy their company for the most part. I don't think that they want our country to be autocracy, so that's good. but you know there's not a lot of people who are just so comfortable in their own skin

comfortable being off book off talking points you know um comfortable like you know you know just as comfortable sparring with people as they are BSing you know with friendly people right it's it's not that easy actually and it's a it's a it's a real trait and it's a skill and I think to break through in this environment you don't have to have it but will go a long way. You could get better. I think JD's gotten really better. I never want to hand it to JD.

Flaming hot take from DeMiller. I know. I know. J.D., I find about the most unappealing person in all of public life. He's my Hakeem. But he's gotten a lot better. Like, he was better.

Like, he's funny. You know, he was pretty funny on Theo Van. Maybe not funny. It's not the wrong. But he was good. Like, he was good. He sat for a couple of hours and had a normal dude conversation.

Yeah. The vibe was good for J. So it can be taught, obviously. So maybe some of them will teach themselves or maybe they need fresh people. But I think it's a big issue. Tim, this has been so much fun. Thank you for coming on the show

and talking about all of this and sharing some of your insights over the last, I don't want to call you old because you're not that much other than me. Here we are, two successful alumni. Yeah, GW, race, hi. She's great. Can we do a quick ranch about this?

I want to, for the, for the, any conservative anti-woke listeners who have made it this far, who are judging me, you know, for going anti-Trump, could we trade on this? Because it's the stupidest fucking, like, make change of all, like, of all the dumb woke shit that happened, it might be the stupidest. G.W. changed their name from the colonials,

because it had the word colonial in it. We're talking about George Washington University. Yeah, by the way. George Washington University. They changed our school mascot from the Colonials to the Revolutionary. They're the same people. They're the same people. Like, it's just you didn't like the name Colonials because it had the name Colonial in it.

But the Colonials and the Revolutionaries, they still have the hat. It's the same. Like, there was no reason to change it. Like, if you were like, okay, we're going to change it to something fun and whimsical. We're going to be whatever, you know. Something else. represented GW, you know, the hippos or whatever. Like, okay, fine. But, but this is embarrassing. Like, this is Portlandia. We're changing the name from the Colonials to the

revolutionaries. It's, it's, if the Colonials were offensive, why aren't the revolutionaries? It's stupid. Same person. Yep, exact same person. And I look forward to my next trip to Revolutionary Williamsburg, because I'm sure that'll make a huge difference. Tim, seriously, this has been a blast. Tim is, of course, the host of the Bullwark, podcast. And I really recommend this book if you're looking for insight into DC. So check that out too. Thanks, Tim. We'll see you soon. Sounds good. All right.

Now, let's talk about Masa chips. Masa chips. You guys know that I love them. All chips and fries. As you may have heard, used to be cooked in tallow up until the 1990s when big corporations switched to cheap processed seed oils. Today, seed oils make up 20% of the average American's daily calories. And recent

studies have linked seed oils to metabolic health issues and inflammation. Masa did something about it. They created a delicious tortilla chip with just three ingredients, no seed oils, organic corn, sea salt, and 100% grass-fed beef tallow. These chips avoid all the bad stuff and they taste incredible. Mossa is crunchier, tastier, and doesn't break in your guac. S stacking on masa chips is nothing like eating regular chips with mossa you feel satisfied and light with no crash or bloat afterwards. Just seriously, these chips are so delicious. The beef tallow makes them satiating, so you're not. you won't find yourself uncontrollably binging and still feeling hungry afterwards.

Masa Chips is beloved by tens of thousands of customers, including me, and has been endorsed by industry leading health and nutrition experts. Ready to give Masa a try. Go to MasaChips.com slash afterparty and use code afterparty for 25% off your first order. That's Masa Chips.com slash after party and code after party for 25% off your first order. Seriously, I buy these chips myself. I got some free samples and now I buy them myself because I love them. much. Did you think you were going to get away with watching the show and not hearing my reaction

to the Taylor Swift engagement? I know you didn't think that because it's simply too unrealistic for anybody to even fathom. Taylor Swift, you already are aware, got engaged to Travis Kelsey. The announcement was made yesterday. The engagement probably came sometime in the last two weeks, I think is what we're hearing from reports. And let me tell you, as somebody who is right in the Taylor Swift target demographic, I would. was right in that teenage era, to borrow a Taylor word, when she started going crazy on the country scene back in the late aughts.

When that happened, everybody was swept up in Taylor Swift-Ferber. It was like the country Justin Bieber alternative. And then Taylor obviously broadened out. But my Instagram yesterday when I was going through people's stories, it was like one girl my age after another. They're in their 30s. They have kids now posting, reposting the Taylor Swift engagement post.

Like she was one of their friends who they were congratulating. I mean, I'm telling you, I was, yeah, the caption was your English teacher and your gym teacher are getting married, whatever. But they were, I'm scrolling through these Instagram stories and I'm telling you, nonstop, people reposting it. It was incredible how many people just reposted it and were like, yay! And the Taylor Swift reaction videos, engagement reaction videos that are taking the internet by storm. I don't even want to get into those because, I mean, why? It makes me, I love celebrity news.

I mean, we spent last episode just talking with the Great Marine Callahan, which many of you wrote in and said you enjoyed, about stuff that feels gossipy, but is sort of deep and interesting and what it reflects about our tastes and our shifts culturally. And I think Taylor Swift actually is one of those people. There are a lot of like diehard Taylor Swift fans and this is what some of the engagement viral videos showed. Engagement reaction viral video showed is like the diehard Taylor Swift fans that clearly like need not just a hobby but like a prescription because they're not well. On that note though, there are some, I think there's some serious lessons that can be taken from this. So let me go ahead here and put up on the screen a People magazine article.

that I thought made a good point from a perspective that I think is maybe, this is not a point that is coming from the right, but it's one of those moments. And I think this about Lena Dunham a lot, as I've talked about here, where somebody who's not political, is not talking about politics, is not talking about ideology in any way whatsoever, is making a point that, from my perspective to the left, and actually probably some parts of the right, should think long and hard about. So this is a People Magazine opinion article.

I'm a millennial Swifty headline and I'm going to say it. Taylor and Travis's engagement felt like a milestone win for our generation. I'm giggling because the way that's written is a little cringe, but I've actually written about some of Taylor's past records as milestone losses for our generation. I think I wrote a people that federalist a couple of years ago about how her arc reflects the arc of a lot of millennials who do sort of serial dating and don't settle down, but clearly desperately want to settle down. And because they haven't settled down, in some ways, look to politics, materialism as their identity and where they find their meaning and their purpose. And I really believe this is true,

that Swift reflected that. And I think this author, again, as cringy as the headline is, is correct that Swift is, again, once again, mirroring the millennial generation as people hit their 30s, mid-30s, and do genuinely settle down. Now, there was a really smart conservative reaction in Compact magazine by Patrick Brown of the Ethics and Public Policy Center. There's not going to be a Taylor Travis baby boom. And that's because they're already older. They're not old, but they're already older having, you could, I think, fairly argue, prioritized whether willingly or not careers. And they're probably not going to be able to have that many children.

We don't know that, but that's on average. What we see, there's statistics, Limonstone at the Institute for Family Studies, has this data on how women right now in America are saying that they end up having fewer children than they wanted. That's a really serious thing for us to think about as a culture and not an unsubstated. serious point to make in the wake of all of this. But the author of the People magazine piece, Emily Rella, great name, Emily. There's so many damn millennial emilies that I could have literally guessed that her name was Emily. And I probably would have been in great shape. I was always Emily J in class because there were like 20 other Emmlies in every class that I was in.

Actually, a little piece of lore. I was Emily J. And everyone back home in Wisconsin still calls me EMJ, EMJ, because there were so many people named Emily that was the only way we could distinguish me. So again, just a little fun fact. I share those from time to time. Why not? So this Emily R writes, I for one was shook, shook by how emotional the news of the engagement made me as a closet softy. I'm usually able to reel it in when big life moments like this happened. I started feeling myself tearing up with joy upon looking at Taylor and Travis's engagement photos before panic. that I was some parisocial fan girl freak,

of which there are many, we should note. But then after that past, I found myself thinking, why of all things, is this hitting me so hard? Is this hitting so hard for me right now? And the author goes on to write, oh, this is awful. I'm 32, that's actually my age, and I've become comfortable with the idea

that maybe it won't happen for me the way it happens in movies. I've built a beautiful chaotic life for myself, complete with relationship, situationships and absolutely debilitating crushes no matter how they've ended they've all taught me something that has helped me to find how I want to love be loved and experience love but as valuable as these lessons have been they do occasionally feel like puzzle pieces putting together a picture that will eventually be incomplete and another part actually skipped over this the the author writes

as a millennial our current cultural examples of love true soulmate level real l love aren't exactly a dime a dozen. This notion of yearning and desire and all or nothing consuming passion is seemingly dwindled with a fairy tale ending seemingly out of reach. Too many adverbs. That's the editor and me. It's not so much that millennials stopped believing in love in some jaded, brooding way. I think it's more so that we've become more comfortable with the idea that it might not happen for us in the way we once dreamed of when we were younger. Now that reflects the data from Lyman Stone at the Institute for Family States I just referenced in what Patrick Brown wrote in Compact. Attracting romantic attention, Emily R goes on to say, or affectionate

isn't difficult these days. Just look at the popularity of the modern day situation ship or the influx of dating apps, which let you mindlessly scroll through suitor after suitor on your phone and decide in a split second whether or not you want to potentially be with this person forever based on a digital first impression. And goes on to write. I mean, this is, I actually really do recommend reading this piece. And now we're here watching Taylor put a final puzzle piece into place. Every heartbreak, every devastation, every grand beginning, and glimmer of hope, it all led to this sweet guy who loves her as she is. and it's because we experienced all those milestones right alongside her as we grew into new life faces at the same time, that this moment of Taylor finding true, unadulterated, effortless love felt like something to celebrate personally. I think that's right. I think all of those viral videos you're seeing right now about Taylor and Travis, in all of the Anodyne reposts, people wishing Taylor Swift well, it feels like a lot.

It's a frenzy. One of those watershed cultural moments. but why? I think this author put her finger exactly on the reason. This is exactly why. And I know we have this post from Lindyman that we can also throw up on the screen. I thought this was a really good take, too, that gets to some of us. Paul Scholaris, he wrote, marriage used to be the entry point into adult life, one of the first steps. Today, marriage has become the culmination of adulthood, the final step after a long run of individual experiences. People are expected to first build careers, live alone, travel, date for years, and only then settle into marriage. Marriage went from

foundation to trophy. Marriage went from foundation to trophy. It is no longer the stabilizing base that anchored young people early, but an almost luxury milestone once life has already sorted out, which is precisely why it's rarer now. That's a really good take, and I think it's a totally fair reaction to the Taylor-Travice engagement story. You know, there's the startup marriage versus the merger marriage, if you're Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, who have vast wealth, success, and a decade plus of living alone after college or after your career started, then yeah, you're definitely in a merger marriage. And we lose the benefits of the startup marriage and a culture that's primarily where people are primarily ending up in the merger marriage.

But I just wanted to reflect on why. this touched such a cultural nerve. It's not just because people really like Taylor Swift. She's been like Ann Hathaway, who's had her moments where people, the culture decides, the culture's like cold. We're sort of hot and cold on Taylor Swift, depending on what quote era she's in,

even though her hardcore fan base is with her all the way. But overall, you know, that fluctuates. The mood on Taylor Swift fluctuates. But it was the last couple of years. It's been pretty steady. You know, she's been criticized by people on the right, including myself. for her forays into politics and ideology.

I think that actually hurt her music, one of her worst songs is you need to calm down. It's just this classist anthem that should be seen as probably the anthem of that peak woke era, capital P, capital W. And I think that she was worse off for it. It sounds like that was when she was also really unhappy. And I'm not, I don't think it's fair to say by any means

that she's like, or even think or care, that she's like about to become. become a conservative, like who I could not possibly care about Taylor Swift's personal politics. But I think everybody wants Taylor Swift to be happy. I think everybody wants Taylor and Travis to be happy. And I think some of it is because people felt like they were on the ride with her. Young millennial women felt like they were on the ride with her. Actually, I think almost all of it. It's not just because people like Taylor Swift, she's a likable person. It's because people feel like they're on the ride with her. And that ride was a roller coaster. Wasn't smooth.

So there's something satisfying kind of emotionally to people about seeing her happy. It gives them hope that, you know, even amidst all of the challenges, nobody's had a more checker dating history than Taylor Swift as she's like open about. It gives them help that someday out of nowhere, they'll find Travis Kelsey. I don't know. It's wild. The best part of all of this is Travis Kelsey's old tweets going viral. and if you haven't seen them, they're actually incredible. My favorite one, I mean, it's my favorite thing of the whole story.

My favorite one was in 2010. He posts, happy Easter to all, hashtag shout out to Jesus for taking one for the team. Dot, dot, dot, ha. He posted like 10 different times from 2009 to 2010 about MGMT, electric feel. They just don't get better than this. If you haven't, if you haven't seen them, you've got to go look them up. All right. Happy for Taylor.

Happy for Travis. I wish them nothing but the best. We'll see, though. I don't know. Let's go ahead and read some audience Instagram questions. We put out a, if you're not following after party on Instagram, you got to follow after party on Instagram. We post a ton of clips over there. And I have some questions that were pulled.

And I think are some fun ones, maybe some less than fun ones. I could do this, by the way, all day. Maybe we'll start doing an episode that's like just not even live where I just answer questions. Who knows? I'm just throwing things out there because I love answering questions. I don't know why, but I feel like it's more conversational. It's more back and forth. It's not just me ranting into the camera.

Let's see. Let's see. Let's see about this one. Would you rather, this is from Kick NMM. This is a very long username. Would you rather talk like Yoda or breathe like Darth Vader? I think breathe like Darth Vader. That's a good question.

Maria Fernanda, New York says you are hilarious. Parentheses on After Party, which I like the parentheses because it implies I'm not hilarious elsewhere, which is probably true. I have a little bit more serious elsewhere. Where do you get your sense of humor from? I've maybe mentioned this on the show before, but I actually wanted to be like a stand-up comedian when I was graduating high school. and don't have anywhere near the chops be a stand-up comedian that was like abundantly clear to me very quickly into uh college um i took some you know fun little acting improv classes actually i took more than some but um that was just abundantly clear to me and that said i just kind of grew up

and i love tv i love media and i love comedy um i i used to like basically only watch comedy and and nothing else. If you can watch comedy, why watch anything else was my perspective. So I think it's just because I watch a lot of it, that it's the only way that I, it's like my lens through the world. Plan on having, this is from Jack Apostolic, plan on having any Bravo stars on the show. I mean, I would love that, the right Bravo star, because some of them are just a mess and not even worth it.

But some of them are incredible. So I'd love it. Maybe we can work on that. There are a few people that come to mind who might be good. Carrie D. Stone asked what's your favorite guitar to play. When I graduated from college, my parents got me this lovely Martin. It is a beautiful guitar, and it sounds incredible. It was my graduation gift.

I do, though, probably for sentimental reasons, and also because I don't get to play as much so I like, find myself gravitating towards my Yamaha that I got for my eighth birthday in second grade that my dad gave me. It's black. It used to be an acoustic electric, but the electric doesn't work on it anymore. And it was like my starter guitar. It kind of cost that much money.

And I just, I mean, again, it's easier to play with my lack of calisos because I just don't get to do it every day. But I love the guitar. Got it for my eighth birthday. I still remember it. And that's the one that I actually pull off the shelf most. Love it. Jay Malicious, who was your favorite, I know the answer that you're looking for, J. Malicious.

It's J. Malicious, because that is my former roommate, Jamie, writing it from Boston. So, Jamie from Boston, sure, it was you. I don't think Christina, our other roommate, is going to watch this anyway, so that's fine. Here's one. This is from Mr. Alex Kramer. What gravitated you to a more conservative-leaning mindset?

That's interesting. Like a lot of people, my parents are, we weren't like obsessed with politics at home, but they're kind of a little both sides or center right, maybe is one way to put it. And I heard a lot of, again, like both sides stuff. I think for me it was, I don't really think you, if you are a lowercase O Orthodox Christian, I don't know right now that you, it would be very hard to be a conservative. Christian or traditionalist Christian and end up on the left. I think that's where I do think you see some conservative Christians gravitating away from libertarian economic ideas, which I think is actually a generally positive trend. And I think the sort of deindustrialization of America's heartland has changed that. It's definitely the case with me. But yeah, for me, it's just faith. It's very hard for me to reconcile the more important worldview, which is faith.

Everything else has to come downstream from that. And so I think it would be difficult to get from point A to point B, which would be on the left. But yeah, you know, it's some of those things are you're just, I think people operating in good faith and honestly are kind of all over the map on a lot of this stuff these days. The labels don't, so obvious, but like the labels don't, matter quite as much anymore post-Trump because like this guy just took a 10% stake in Intel. He's like nationalizing, you know, U.S. steel, not quite, but he's taking steps that, you know, would have been derided as evil socialism by the right not long ago. So in that kind of environment, it's just, you know, he's denigrating the president of Ukraine. All of those things would have just

just been unheard of in the Republican Party 10 years ago. And I think you're starting to see a little bit on the left, too. So, you know, that's my best answer to that question. Amberos Portis asked a really good question. How would you answer when someone asks, isn't Donald Trump acting like a dictator? I actually love that question, because it gets to one of the things I still don't, that I think the jury is kind of out on. I think Trump does a lot of larping. And Maga World does a lot of larping, like Bucale. And I really do not like it. I don't think it's like, I feel like Michael Scott.

Do you think doing drugs is cool? Do you think smoking drugs is cool? Do you think Bucle is cool? That's what I mean, it just, it's un-American, in my opinion. And there are things that Donald Trump does, like not going through Congress for tariffs, that we would have freaked out on the right if Obama had done it, not going through Congress to implement sweeping tariffs, taking 10% sake in Intel, it's debatable.

But yeah, when you add some of this stuff up, like I'm curious to get more on the Lisa Cook situation. I want to know how they got her records. I think we covered it right away when the news broke. What she did was wrong. And the media's, what she did appears to be wrong, what she appears to have done, was wrong. and the media's brain is like obviously broken about a lot of this stuff.

But that said, I am curious how they got those records because I don't want to, you know, end up. We're already beyond, you know, the IRS scandal of the Obama era, I think gave conservatives and not incorrectly a real lust for revenge that Trump tapped into before he even, you know, came back in his second term on this like revenge platform. So, and let's look at more breaking news here. This broke around 6 p.m. tonight. That's why it's great to have a late night show. This is a story from the New York Times about how serious the John Bolton investigation actually is,

which is that the, and it makes the allegations even more serious because it looks like the Biden administration. According to this New York Times reporting, dropped an investigation into John Bolton, despite serious evidence that he took. the US, according to the New York Times report, quote, gather data from an adversarial country's intelligence service, spy service, including emails with sensitive information that Mr. Bolton, while still working in the first Trump administration, appeared to have sent two people close to him on an unclassified system, the people said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive case that remains open. And what the claim from sources in this New York Times article is,

that was used for his book, which we know, but it goes beyond the book investigation. Some people have said, but the sources are suggesting that why they raise. Bolton's home and were able to get a warrant, they have a lawful warrant, is the reason for that is they're trying to corroborate the information that they found on an adversarial country's intel leaks. So if they know this adversarial country has it, they want to verify whether or not the information that that country was able to get its hands on because John Bolton took it for his book to an unclassified server according to this report. So like all of us to say, does it look like Trump is targeting his political enemies? It does. They targeted him first.

And I hate when you leave the first part of that story out of this. You can go, you can keep peeling back the layers. You can go back to Newt Gingrich. And Newt Gingrich would say, well, it was the 40 years of Democratic rule in the House of Representatives that predated me that meant I had to come in and Clint up Washington. Oh, you can blame the other side. You can go back Woodrow Wilson. You can do it all the way. Go back to Abraham Lincoln, whatever. and blame the other side for starting this doom spiral. I just think it's really hard to get around the Obama administration doing what it did to the Trump campaign. That to me is the actual Rubicon, is the Obama administration doing what it did to the Trump campaign, the media failing to cover it and vet that story properly and, in fact, actually fueling a false narrative and then refusing to admit that they fuel the false narrative even now, remarkable.

And that to me is why this question about, is Trump a dictator? It's so interesting because I don't know what happens after Trump. I think Trump has instincts that go beyond what I'm as a conservative who believes the executive is actually so powerful because Congress has atrophied. Congress's legislative muscles have atrophied. I think it goes beyond what I'm certainly what I'm comfortable with. And there are times I'm just like, why? Why is this necessary? But with Trump, it's the double-edged sword of Trump.

The crazy, like none of the other stuff comes without the crazy stuff. And that's why Trump voters are willing to put up with the tweets, right? Like they sell T-shirts that say, like, I'd really like some mean tweets right now from the Biden era. During the Biden era, those are being sold. So I don't know if the breaking of the... these norms is permanent. I don't know if this is the beginning of the doom spiral or the end of it. I just don't know. And I don't know how far Trump pushes it. I think if he were a dictator, what would have happened, this is where it's like, it's sort of, it's beyond what I'm comfortable

with and what I think is right. And January 6 is a great example of that. The way he treated the question of the 2020 election, beyond what I'm comfortable with, beyond what I think is moral, beyond what I think the proper role of the executive is, I think a dictator would have actually, like, literally not left the White House. Does he do that this time around? I doubt it, but we just don't know how things are shaking out. So I don't like the label, and that's kind of where I come down on it. I could probably talk about that for like an hour. Maybe we could do like a long conversation about that at one point because I think it's maybe one of the most interesting bits. it's just so hard to use the label and difficult, especially in this contextless media environment where it's just like John Bolton's being targeted because it's a political enemy of Trump.

It's like, well, John Bolton supported the targeting of Trump first, or are we talking about Biden as a dictator? No, what does this label actually mean when we say it? Are we using it too loosely? Are we using it consistently? and what happens in the future, a lot of people pretend to know, but I just don't think we do. And I think it's okay to say that. A lot of people aren't comfortable saying that. I think it's okay to say that. So on that note, I could honestly just keep rambling.

These were great questions. Feel free to send more questions to Emily at Devil Maycare Media.com or you can shoot us Instagram messages. We check those too. But I check everything over at Emily at Devilmacaremedia.com. Try to respond to all of you. And just a reminder, or actually a little programming note, we're off on Monday, so happy Labor Day, comrades, enjoy it. Have some beer. I'm drinking my Senate beer right here. So have a good one, and we will see you back here a week from right now, Wednesday Live 10 p.m. Thanks so much, everyone.