After Party with Emily Jashinsky - Epstein Doc Dump Details, and Hasan Piker’s Rise, with Michael Malice, PLUS Getting Real About Groypers

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Emily Jashinsky is joined by Michael Malice, Host of “Your Welcome,” to discuss the new document dump connected to Jeffrey Epstein, how unusually fair the Associated Press coverage was to President Trump, and who both Democrats and Republicans may really be protecting.  Then the conversation turns to signs of frustration in MAGA world and why the movement is inseparable from Trump.  They also discuss leftist streamer Hasan Piker’s trip to China and why it’s so troubling, how Piker manages to connect to young people, plus reporting from “The Washington Free Beacon” on MSNBC’s awkward rebrand with paid actors, Nancy Pelosi’s swan song, and why some Democrats are deserting woke. Then Emily does a deep dive on her original reporting about ‘Groypers’ and just how prevalent they really are in right-leaning circles. Aware House: Visit https://awarehouseshop.com/discount/PARTY & use code PARTY for 15% off your first order. Cowboy Colostrum: Get 25% Off Cowboy Colostrum with code AFTERPARTY at https://www.cowboycolostrum.com/AFTERPARTY Unplugged: Switching is simple, Visit https://Unplugged.com/EMILY and order your UP phone today!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to After Party, everyone. It is great to see you all. As a reminder, make sure to subscribe on YouTube, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Hour, as a reminder, only on podcast feeds. So if you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, wherever you're getting your podcasts, that only goes out. It's audio only for our audio listeners because if you're like me,

you just love the audio. Make sure that you are subscribed on podcast feeds to get happy hour every Friday, 5 p.m. I'll be recording it tomorrow. You can shoot me emails over at Emily at devil makecaremedia.com or on our after-party Emily, Instagram. I'll do my best to get to all of them when we record that tomorrow. Now, on to tonight's show, the great Michael Malice is going to be with us in just one moment, and we have a lot to talk about. I'm monitoring the situation in the Oval Office right now, by the way, because Donald Trump is about to sign the government shutdown bill. also the continuing revolution, resolution. It's really not much of a revolution to fund the government, to reopen the government that is on the president's desk, and he is about to sign it. Presses in

the Oval Office, so I will be monitoring that if there's anything that must be mentioned on After Party. Don't you forget, I will be there watching it all, taking it all in 20,000 new Epstein emails dropped today. 20,000 new Epstein emails. Some of them have already been parsed through and are interesting, so we're going to discuss those with Michael. We're going to get into the Miss Now rebrand. MSNBC is now Miss Now. They want you to think that it's MSN now. It's actually missed now. It's the only way to pronounce it. Because if you pronounce it Miss Now, you can have, it conjures all the memories of those wonderful miss now memes that we're going to break down a new ad they have for the new rebranded network. It's incredible you're going to want to stick around for that hassan piker is in china why not and i have

some original reporting on groypergate dare we call it that you have to stick around for the end to catch that but i've been working the sources working the phones and have some uh information to bring to everyone towards the end of today's show so let's get to it with michael malice host of your welcome and author of not sick of winning a history of president trump's first 100 days Michael Malice, thanks for coming back. Thank you so much, Emily. All right, we're actually going to talk about whether people are getting sick of winning in just one moment,

but let's start with the 20,000 new Epstein emails because something tells me that'll be kind of a nice segue into that conversation, but you pointed out this AP headline on the story today. So this is F1. The headline is Epstein email says Trump, quote, knew about the girls as White House calls its release a democratic smear.

You said something truly bizarre is happening. AP released a piece on the Epstein emails that dropped, but the writer does everything in their power to exonerate Trump from the implications. I've never seen that before from a corporate press article. Before I have you explain yourself, Michael, just some quick background for people who have normal lives and weren't following the news cycle all day. House Democrats released a few emails on the Oversight Committee. They released a few of them from the Epstein estate because when the government shutdown ends, Mike Johnson has sworn in Adelita Grijalva, who will be the vote that they need for the discharge petition, which is bipartisan, Republicans like Thomas Massey,

Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Bobert, together with Democrats, want to push this what's called a discharge petition through the House of Representatives in order to compel a vote on the floor to get the administration to release more Epstein documents. The White House has been fighting it tooth and nail very bitterly. They don't want that to happen. So House Democrats released these emails that the AP is referring to in that headline early in the morning. With the name of one of the victims redacted, it was Virginia Jafray, who, you know, well, we could get into it, has some credibility issues to say the least. I don't think she's telling, I don't think she's passed now, of course, but I don't think she was telling the, I don't think she was misleading people about every single thing, but certainly there are some questions. So all that is to say, then Republicans dumped 20,000 new emails that journalists spent the day parsing through.

Michael, your point about that AP piece is actually fascinating. Can you break it down for us? Sure. I mean, we have spent years having to deal with whenever Trump can be made to look like a, can I curse? Like an asshole, they're going to go out the way to do it. That's not cursing. I'm just warming up. I can think of two ways off the top of my head.

There was one moment where he was with the late Queen Elizabeth, and it looks like he walked in front of her, and it's like, look at this asshole. But if you see the whole clip, they cut it. Right before that, she gestures for him to be walking in front of her. But if you look at just what they released, it looks like he's a complete, you know, a fool. There was another moment when he was feeding the fish in Japan. Oh, my God, he's overfeeding the fish by the cats. But if you watch the whole clip, the Japanese prime minister did the same thing.

So they just do this over and over just to make him look like a fool. If you read this article, I saw the headline and clicked on it, paragraph after paragraph, look here's the context Trump kicked Jeffrey Epstein out of Mar-a-Lago Virginia Guffrey however pronounce your name, sorry, said repeatedly he was innocent like it was basically Trump's side of the

story beat by beat at length and I have never and if you have please correct me seen like an AP piece where it honestly and fairly presents Trump's side of the story I've never seen it before no I can't think of another time

so what's your theory as to why this associated press piece, which this is a wire report. They are among the driest, but the most biased. Did not mean for that to rhyme. I'm actually going to apologize because that was not an appropriate place to rhyme. But now it's like that's what's going on? This isn't adding up. People have said, oh, I put on Twitter because I don't know. And people have said, okay, they're trying to avoid a lawsuit. You can avoid a lawsuit by, you don't, you can just leave it up there. You're not accusing you everything. Let the, you know, the, um, blanketed email speak for itself and let the reader reach the wrong conclusion.

You don't have to say, you know, Trump's this or that. I have no idea. I don't think it's, they're scared of lawsuits. I don't think they've gone MAGA. I have no idea what's going on. In the same way, here's something else I don't know what's going on. And I'm curious to your thoughts, which is if I will bet every penny I have that if there's a lot of crap about Trump in these Epstein files, Biden would have leaked it.

I don't see any way anyone can argue to the contrary. They were leaking all sorts of things. They were making things up, you know, in 2016 to make him look like, you know, he hired prostitutes to pee on a bed. And this went wide. You laugh, but, like, that's the level where they were to stop this guy.

So if there's a smoking gun, we would have heard about it repeatedly. And the fact that we haven't tells me with a high degree of certainty that maybe there's something that's minorly embarrassing with him. But at the same time, I don't have a Venn diagram

for what Joe Biden and Donald Trump are both desperate, to stop from being released. I don't understand what that crossover is, and I'm open to hearing hypotheses. I've talked to several people in my show about this, and none of them had a good answer. Or by their own admission. Right. And no, I think that's true. I mean, obviously, there are some emails coming out today that are pretty funny from like Larry Summers. I don't know if you saw this way to put it up on the screen. This is Ben Dreyfus posted this. Here's an email where Larry Summers asked Jeffrey Epstein

if Trump uses cocaine and Epstein responds by asking if he can get a private Harvard tour for a Rothschild. This is actually what's happening in this email. It's so, so funny. Can we just acknowledge that we live in a simulation? Because if Emily, if you and I sat down, we passed this huge bowl and we got baked out of our minds

and our eyes all red, we would never come up with something this creative and this over the top. How plausible is that Trump is real cocaine, real cocaine user, not on the cocaine user. So he lost the good stuff. Except from my iPhone. So you know Larry Summers is taking a dump and he's like, all right, maybe he's

doing ripping rails in the bathroom and he's texting this. Who knows? He's, yeah, well, he's, look at also, he's plugging his website in his email signature. This is great, www. Larry Somers.com, follow me on Twitter at LH. That's the most boomer thing ever. Remember the WWW and the information super highway. He keeps us all connected.

Bro, you are Larry Summers. You don't need to be thirst trapping in your email signature. Like, that seems so obvious. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. I'm seeing this for the first time now. Instead of, first of all, I like that. He calls him Jeff.

Yep. He just replies with, he doesn't, wait, within a minute. It's within a minute. He goes, can you show me? If Emily, if I ever ask you if someone's using real cocaine, please do not respond within a minute asking for a tour of Austin. You will not receive one. A tour of Austin.

That's where you find out who is using the real code. Yeah. Yeah. Holy crap. And you know what? He didn't even ask for his pronouns. Didn't even ask before he wanted. That was 2016.

That was before that, I think. That's true. Okay. But this is actually I think part of what might be the explanation is these files contain so many pieces that Internet slews are going to put together into a puzzle. And whether or not they have the accurate picture, if you're Larry Summers, if you're Bill Gates, if you're all of these Ehud Barak, Ehud Barak, whose hacked emails have been getting reported on in DropSite and show Epstein openly operating with Ehud Barak and Israeli intelligence, basically, Dropside has a whole series of stories on this right now, that there's so much, like, trivially incriminating information about non-trivial,

not always illegal crimes, but like moral crimes at the very least, that they don't want people like piecing together all of these little scraps of information about their lives and their businesses and their geopolitical involvement. But I don't know. I think at this point, you know, Michael just would behoove everyone to have the information out there. I know that sounds crazy because we don't know what's in it. But if there's a smoking gun in it, they're not releasing that. They're going to do a 20,000 document dump and leave the one out. So like what's, right? Like, why are they fighting this so hard at this point? Again, like I said earlier, I have no good theories. Again, if there's something really...

Now, the one theory I heard that's even remotely plausible was Scott Adams' theory that Trump is using what's in there as blackmail. He's the one leveraging this stuff to get people do what he wants. If that's true, I don't see where he's done it. I don't see where he's made anyone from the Democrats do his bidding.

I wear the receipts for that. Chuck Schumer maybe reopened the... I really doubt that if, first of all, Chuck Schumer went to Epstein Island. But even if he did, I don't think the black man is, you know, vote on this continuing resolution. That's not the ask if you have someone who goes to Xten Island. You ask for much bigger fish and then Schumer just changed his mind for this one after he got heat for the first time. So where are, if it's a blackmail thing that Trump is now exploiting, where are the receipts? Where are the results? I don't see any. Well, okay, so on that

point, today's emails that the Dems released, we mentioned Virginia Jafray earlier. Her name is redacted in the emails. It just says victim. And these emails, emails are, you know, it goes over something we already know because Trump came out loud and said it on Air Force One, which might explain why the Associated Press story that you saw was relatively favorable, even though there are plenty of things that you could give Trump fair coverage of why they chose this one. Like the last 10 years is remarkable. But basically, Epstein says to Galane Maxwell in an email, Trump, of course, knew because he was telling Galane to stop, or this is part of the email that Epstein said, saying Trump, of course, knew about

the girls. He was telling Galane to stop. Then in another one of these emails, Epstein is trying to figure out, I mean, these are the emails between Michael Wolf and Jeffrey Epstein are completely insane, strategizing, Michael Wolf tips off Jeffrey Epstein. They're strategizing as to how to handle a question that CNN might ask. But let's just pause. that for a second and talk about the defray email. Did you read that as potentially Epstein trying to blackmail Donald Trump or trying to say that Trump was cooperating as an informant? Like when he says that the dog that hasn't barked yet, this is part of the email. That dog that hasn't barked yet is Trump what's talking about? Yeah, I thought that email had been out since

2011. I saw a meme going around where the name was unredacted and this email I think had been out there already. It really sounded to me. like Trump knows but he hasn't opened his mouth yet so if anything it sounds to me like I'd be scared like Emily heads up you know someone knows about us like this is like a ticking time bomb

I wouldn't think at all it means he's in on it and then Epstein says I'm 75% sure so it sounds like again I read that as he's 75% sure Trump hasn't cooperated yes correct but right yes but also he says yet

so he's scared Trump is going to open his mouth. That's how that seems like to me. Right. Okay. So then that brings us to Galane Maxwell, now being in minimum security prison reportedly with a service puppy. And that's actually like been reported in the last couple of days. She was given a service puppy.

Well, Emily, Emily, they're not going to give her, of all people, an adult dog. You are problematic, Michael Malice to say. the least. But so is that then the Scott Adams theory, as we're just hashing this out here, maybe that actually what Trump is doing is controlling Maxwell. And Maxwell is because from these emails that were released today, obviously Maxwell is in the loop about Trump. So is he trying to control Maxwell by withholding publicly information. Do you remember in, was it 20-20? I think it was. There was an interview at the White House and they said, what would you say to Gleine Maxwell? He goes, I'd wish her well. And I wish you well. What? Like, I, I, I'd wish you well. What?

To this day, like, okay, if you're implicated, she would understand you throwing under the bus publicly. Anyone would, right? She's no dummy. And if you're not implicated, what are you doing? It was so, I still don't have an answer for it. And again, so there's several theories that, like none of the work. Like I said earlier, if he's a client, I don't see any reality where that's not known

or at least whispered about. Like, these rumors have a very, in Washington, like, people, People talk. Things get out. It's not a thing. So you tell me that the FBI and the CIA wouldn't have gotten that to the New York Times. Comey's in trouble for doing that right now over something much more minor than this. And what's his defense going to be? That should have been secret. I mean, are you kidding me? What's he going to say if they have a red dead bank to rights? He's not going to have any public defense. Well, okay. So then maybe the theory is what's happening is that they're going to release these documents.

piecemeal. You get 20,000 document dump one day, then a 5,000 document dump another day. And you can politically keep saying, Republicans are releasing these documents. And go for that, knowing if you're Trump or a donor or Larry Summers type, that nobody's ever actually going to release a smoking gun document. You know, that would be, I think the public would love it. I think it would be the right thing to do. You and I would be happy to see the smoking gun document. But nobody expects that Trump or Biden would release a smoking gun document about American intelligence if that's what it is or if Biden had something on Trump being a client implicated in this, of course you would imagine that would make its way into the public if it didn't implicate the intelligence community and

something like that. So maybe that's the theory is that what they're doing is just managed what is the term for it like managed chaos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But here's something else that's weird. Like the longest serving Republican speaker that for many years was Dennis Hastert and he went to jail for things having to do with child touching like I don't want to get demonetized you I've never heard the Democrats bring it up once it's so this is low-hanging fruit this is really easy to be like while you guys are complaining about woke you voted for this guy to be Speaker of the House and now he's in jail you're a hypocrite you would think that's a gimme and they don't do it so again I don't really have a good there's this argument to be

made that they're literally all child abusers and maybe I you know even Tammy what's your name Senator Tammy Duckworth all of them Rosa DeLaro really all of them I don't I don't see it but I don't I don't know yeah that I mean right although they would have I guess motivations to protect themselves for protecting the Clintons I guess like the Netflix no no that's not true what's your name Kristen Gillibrand Center from New York came out again Clinton many, many years later, but she did it. So it's safe now to be like denounced Bill Clinton and he's a big grown boy. He's like, okay, fine. He doesn't care at this point. And they could do that. They posture all the time. So I don't think it's like to protect the Clintons at all.

Maybe you don't want to get killed. Maybe that's the one. Like, you know. I mean, yeah, I think that's actually a serious possibility. The only entity and on this point, the only entity that both parties, particularly the establishments of both parties, have a motivation to protect, as far as I can see it, is the intelligence community. Yes. Right? Yes. What else would explain? I mean, to your point, if it was dirt on Trump, Biden people would have released it. If it's dirt on Biden, Trump people would have released it.

Here's the other part of the puzzle that's not up. I don't think it's Dan Bongino's like ultimate goal in life to be number two at the FBI, right? The guy had a huge huge successful podcast. I think he's married, family man, patriot. I don't think it would be that easy to flip him, right? I think if there's really some nasty stuff in there, he would either resign or leak it or something like that. Because what's the doubt, and he gets to be the hero. And the fact that he was like that hostage video, which everyone saw, he's like, oh, everything's fine. Like, I don't know what they could have done to flip him. What leverage could you possibly have over someone who is independent, self-made, hardcore patriot.

Tough guy. He was, I think he was a former cop. Like, what could they have done to him that really made it like that? And even if they said, look, if this gets out, it's going to screw things up in Ukraine, Middle East, Asia, who knows. I think at that point, he would still resign. And he would keep his mouth shut, like, you know what, being a good soldier for all in the story, to be like, you know what, I can't do this, I have this in my conscience, let's make up some reason why I'm resigning, and I'm out of here. That's what I think he would do, because otherwise it was just driving crazy. I think, I don't think he's an angel, but I think he has a shred of

integrity. And he leaked that he was thinking of quitting back in the spring when the Epstein problem was stacking up for the administration. So there may be something he's genuinely unhappy with. But again, that's how the intelligence community works. Obviously, you know too much. And at a certain point, you're implicated because of what you know. And you might actually be afraid for your life. That's what a lot of the JFK theories revolve around. So, you know, there's all kinds of the beginning on, but I think probably the biggest possibility is that there's no smoking gun in the documents that Dan Bongino would even have access to. Probably it's word of mouth from people like Alex Acosta, who I'm sure did say what a source told Vicki Ward, he said, about Epstein,

being told that Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave him alone and broker that sweetheart deal. I'm sure he did say that. I'm sure that at the time when it got to Vicki Ward, that was an accurate quote. Costa denies calling Epstein or knowing he was an asset or an agent now, which is not necessarily the same thing as, quote, belonging to intelligence. House Oversight Committee did not do a good job grilling him on that. When the transcript was released, we could see. But I think that's probably it, Michael. I don't know. The likelyest possibility to me is that they have plausible deniability because these mountains of files that Pambandi had lawyers looking through for weeks, genuinely don't have a smoking gun in them. Anything that could be has been

destroyed or taken away. Yeah. And the other thing that was very odd, that also doesn't make sense to me, and I'm curious to hear if you disagree, when Pam Bonnie's like, I have the list that's on my desk, and then later, and I don't think there was a list. I really don't think Epstein had like a client dot doc on his desktop. I don't think that's out, right? Client list. That's not a literal thing, but she said it. And she goes, oh, did I say list? I didn't mean this. Like, then why'd you say it to begin with? Like, what, like, literally what were you referring to? I don't have an answer there either. Right. She said she was referring to like the case and she still hadn't gone through it. Then why'd she used that word? No idea. No idea.

have to talk about Michael Wolf, by the way. I want to put this on the screen. And this is F3. Philip Weigman in RealCorp Politics says, so was Michael Wolf moonlighting as a public relations advisor for Jeffrey Epstein or just work in a source? And that's tongue and cheek, because when you zoom in on this email that was released by the Dems today, you have Michael Wolf a tipping off Jeffrey Epstein that CNN is planning to ask Trump a question about him at a 2015, December 2015 Republican primary debate. Then Epstein and Wolf go back and forth on what kind of answer they should give to Trump to prepare him to answer those questions. Wait, wait, I'm sorry. Did you see his email address? It's J-E-E vacation at Gmail. Is that it? It's crazy, right? I did

see that earlier today. I was like, you're kidding me. Is that his like, does he even Gmail when he's on vacation? That's the island email address. That's the, when you want to reach me at the Island. You got to email J.E. Vacation because he is on vacation time. It's like Margaritaville. Yeah, yeah. Wasting away, huh? Wasting away again on Adrena Chrome. Oh, wow. I just wrote that off the top of my head. Not bad. You should copyright that. I should. That's not bad. All right. So Michael Wolf, who have you noticed lately as being like rehabilitated as some type of resist, serious resistance figure. There have been write-ups on his viral TikToks. He's all over Instagram, and he is presenting himself as a serious authority on all of the evils of Trumpism. It's absolutely insane.

This guy writes complete nonsense that he is like wink, wink, nod, alluded to being half fictional and gets treated by the press as like a genuine Trump whisperer. And here he is in this very familiar relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, clearly, clearly, Michael, from this email. Well, don't you also remember when they had Louise Mench as like this resistant figure? And she was saying, who was going to be executed? Like, it pains me to say this, but someone's going to be executed? She was for, Bannon. Was it Bannon?

Yes, I think you're right. That's such a deep cut, though. Holy smokes. No, but my point is like, you know, Mark Twain said history isn't repeat, but she rhymes. And I think it's the same thing. Like, what are E. Jean Carroll? Like, okay, this crazy person is saying things that serve our purpose, let's put him front and center.

So I also think Michael Wolfe, what's surprised about me of the realization, is by all accounts, he's one of the nastiest people in Washington. So maybe now that David Brock's been taking out a few pegs, like he's filling in his like slippers, but it is, you know, I asked, I had a Twitter poll

and I'm confident you'd agree with me, Emily. I said, do you think politics is crazier now than it was 10 years ago? And like, it was like 80% of people said yes. I think things are really going off the rail. in really many different metrics, and it's disquieting to see. And I think we all forgot how literally insane this country went during COVID. Like it was like an asylum.

Well, I think that a lot when people are scratching their heads and wondering what's going on with young people, like why are they voting in droves for Zoroam Dhani? Why are they tuning in to, we're going to talk about Hassan Piker later, or Nick Fuentes. It's like, do you remember what happened for like three years, especially for kids in blue states? Like, do you actually remember that was their formative years as their brains were developing and their social ties were forming that they were basically like in prison? Yeah, right. Yeah, it's a good point. It's crazy. All right. I'm going to take a break. And when we come back, we are going to talk about all things, Hassan Piker's China trip. I don't know why we wouldn't. We obviously have to get to that. But first, are you looking to support made in the USA manufacturing this holiday season, whether there's. its home decor clothing or unique gifts, it's become harder than ever to find high quality

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You're scared because it's a candle on a wooden bookshelf? next to books yeah like I can't like I'm I will not I am I maybe it's because I'm an immigrant but like having candles like lit in the house I'm always like standing over there with a fire extinguisher so just seeing it like like dancing and coming close I I feel like you're trolling me I hope I'm trolling it wasn't intentional but now I'm going to next time you're on I'm legitimately going to have like 20 candles behind me and light them all I'll show you I'm going to set myself on fire Yes. It's going to another Arab Spring.

Oh, ooh, that one. All the Tunisians watching are upset with you right now, Malice. Those flaming Tunisians. Yes. But I get comments about that every once in a while. The thing is, though, I'm looking at a monitor. So looking at the camera, it has a monitor. And so I'm truly, it's like I'm staring at the camera the entire time.

So if anything were to get out of control, we're here. Now, actually, this is metaphorically a great way. to talk about what you were just saying, which is you feel like the country is going off the rails, your Twitter poll, 80% of people saying politics is crazier than it was 10 years ago. Yeah, I wrote about this today. And one of the ways I like to torture my guests is to put things that I've written on the screen. This is F4. And I was just thinking about the last week of what seems like a lot of people getting blackpilled in Maga World. And I can't tell if it's just a very online phenomenon. And if even it is just an online phenomenon,

whether it's fleeting, Trump is correct that he could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and a lot of his supporters would stay with him because they see him as a lesser of two evils option compared to the left. And that's something the media doesn't understand. But the 50-year mortgages, that felt like the damn bursting open. Then there was the H-1B comment to Laura Ingram about him saying, no, America doesn't have the workers when she pushed back and said, why can't American workers do this? It comes on top of the off-year election losses last week. Not surprising, but some pretty big margins in New Jersey and Virginia. So are you getting the same sense that I am? I've just seen more and more this week of people genuinely starting to become disillusioned with MAGA. I wouldn't say genuinely. If someone can go to my, when you produce, go to my Twitter and pull up the cycle I have with the four arrows, it's really going to be right towards the top. This happened before. Emily, you and I can name does the people because Trump pushed the vaccine oh I'm never going to vote for this guy

he gave us Fauci they ran the table he gave us lockdowns this is ridiculous and then a couple years later it's like oh my god the left has gone crazy yeah there you go it's this is the cycle if you scroll it up so you can see that's really funny

the fourth arrow yeah yeah this is it it's this they have in remember in 2020 when there was 2022 excuse me there was supposed to be red wave and every single person Trump endorsed in a swing race lost or almost

everyone, right? Dr. Oz, there was a Hersha Walker in Georgia and people and that's why all those Republicans ran in the primary because they're like people are done with him and his nonsense there's a lot of talk that he's not electable again because people had soured

on him and then that campaign was a master stroke. Whoever coached him in that first debate should get like a Nobel Prize or something Because to have Donald Trump sit there and let Biden hang himself and bite his tongue was something we've never seen before since. It was absolutely out of character for him. And this kind of stuff, people like it.

If Trump's whole persona is, I'm a winner, come with me, you're going to win. When you stop winning, it's like, okay, this guy's a phony. And people revert to that. So to your point, though, I don't think, I think Maga and Trump are synonymous. That's a good point. a MAGA movement without Trump. You could have nationalism, you could have populism, you get all these things.

But MAGA just means this loose collection of things that Trump kind of likes and Trump kind of doesn't. I don't think it's broadly speaking a well-developed ideology. And that's nothing wrong with that. He's a politician, not a philosopher. Well, the well-developed ideology is political pragmatism. Yeah, I think that's right. And so with Marjor Taylor Green,

I think it is true that she represents the average MAGA voter, but nobody can truly represent true MAGA, pure MAGA. better than Donald Trump himself. Nobody can ever claim that mantle because it is Trumpism, pure and simple, and that's pragmatism. He's willing to, one point he was willing to make a deal on DACO

with Nancy Pelosi. That was like 2018, somewhere around there. In 2018, when they won the House, he said Nancy Pelosi deserves to be, because there was some buzz about some Democrats said they would not vote for her. Remember, they ran for re-election in 2018.

She was a polarizing figure. They said, I'm not voting Pelosi. It looked like she wouldn't have the votes. And Trump said, she deserves to be, he tweeted this out, He deserves to be speaker, and if the Democrats don't have enough votes, we'll get the Republicans to do it. He endorsed McConnell. He said McConnell's terrific.

So, you know, he's been all over the map on several issues, but people don't remember these things. Well, okay, so I think your cycle graphic is, like, actually very accurate. On the other hand, though, I think the way that I was seeing it over the course of this week, I'm going to share this post, too, is that there's something felt a little bit different. I think it's always good to remember, especially with these midterm cycles, exactly what you. you were talking about. I don't know if you saw this from Savannah Hernandez. She's a TPSA contributor, and she wrote, I'm tired of based social media videos and big talk from the administration was zero follow-through. We voted for home affordability, and we were given 50-year mortgages and debt slavery. People disagreeing with the speed of the deportation, she goes on and says people are

being arrested for, quote, anti-Semitic attacks. Meanwhile, it's Christian children who are being targeted. She goes on and says, don't get me started on the DOJ's priorities of lack thereof. And at one point It says, because Americans voted to feel safe, prioritize, and protected, and every time we try to voice our concerns, we are labeled as anti-Maga, anti-Israel, or anti-Trump for bringing for substantial criticism of the direction of the party. She ends by saying, it's our job to openly put the pressure on when we don't feel the country is headed in the right direction. If we refuse to do so, we're no better than the entire left who refused to criticize Biden

for his entire administration. Okay, so I really hate this kind of binary talk. The idea that the entire left didn't criticize Biden for his entire administration is false. at the very least there was huge criticism of him about what he did with Israel so that's a very low-hanging fruit and there's lots of other things

where people went after him for not going far enough or so on and so forth so it always looks on this side of the fence like everyone on the other side's united that's not at all the case second of all Trump doesn't have a governing majority in the house you would have 218 seats

219 seats he could only afford to lose like one or two votes to have anything imagine trying to get 219 people to agree on what movie you to watch 219 people to agree on where we're going to have dinner it's not a thing and they all have egos and some more than others so for her to say if you put up the tweet back at can you put the tweet back up yeah of course for her to say um uh look at that thing scroll up to the beginning where she says um we voted for mass deportations we can't even get

kill Garcia to our country you're telling me she says zero follow through zero follow through he's not making the biggest effort on deportations that any of us have seen in our lifetime since Eisenhower. I mean, I think it's fair to criticize him, but I think I remember, here's the thing. People, I hate this where people have these short memories. In 2024, a lot of people voted for Trump being like, you know what, if he just closes the border and puts a little bit of a stop to DEI, I'd be happy with it. The expectations were quite low. And I think it's very clear that he met those low expectations. He did stop DEI and the border is being taken seriously asked an issue. Governor Pritzker recently

admitted, he had a slip of the tongue, he said, oh, well, we used to have a problem with the board of all the law. It's like, when? Because you were saying there was no board a problem. Now I'm like, oh, we used to have a problem. Oh, it got a result. I wonder what happened. In politics, when you succeed, it's like, what have you done for me lately? So

I think it's kind of ridiculous when he's very clearly had the best first 100 days of any president in our lifetime. He has does not have the governing majority in the house. There's only so much a president can do, and I don't think he I think she's right about the 50 year

mortgages she's right about the H1Vs but at the end of the day I think he has really done better as president we all remember his first term like this is I don't think there's a single person on earth who could say with a straight face Trump two isn't an infinite improvement as president over Trump won

it's not possible so I think she's right to criticize him but to say that he has zero followed through or didn't deliver I think that's not reasonable. Your last point is one that I just want to just focus on a little bit more because I thought what she said about some on the right. And it sounded like she was talking about the influencer's fear

being uncomfortable with criticizing Trump was interesting because what I sensed was from her an exasperation with being mad about the 50-year mortgages, being mad about the H-1Bs. I think your point, your rebuttal and the point about immigration is absolutely accurate. it. Like the left is freaking out about the speed of the deportations and doing everything, including putting their bodies in front of ice vehicles in order to stop it. And assaulting ice agents.

Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. So, but overall, I sense that there's just like, I don't know, a frustration. Yes. That calling out the administration. Like, I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago, just looking at the top of the podcast charts, Tucker Carlson, Candice Owens, you can include Flentes in this without getting into the Fuentes can of worms, just to say that a lot of the most popular podcasters right now, Andrew Schultz, another good example, Tim Dillon, a good example. They're being critical of the administration. Oh, yeah.

And the influencers on the right actually aren't. Like, they're still acting like it's kind of 2016, 2017 cheerleading for Trump. And to me just seems like people are genuinely missing that there's an appetite for some more nuance in the Trump conversation from the right. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think people like nuance at all. that I do think they want criticism because here's the thing. If you can't get an airplane and if you're, if I'm the chaos candidate, if I'm the guy

who comes to Washington and F shit up, when shit's effed up, it's my fault. That's the perception, right? Because I'm the guy who brings the... I mean, I blame you every time a flight is delayed. Well, I have the guy sitting on that wing tearing up the things like the flight zone. A colonial woman on the wing. Yeah. So like, the thing is if you have such a good track record and things come to screeching halt,

people get bored and they're like okay what next and i also think at the end of the day our system does not make it easy even if there were none of these marches to rip people from their homes and throw them out there has to be due process understandably so yeah it's he knew this was going to be an uphill climb and i i don't know any politician our lifetime who's tried to do take this more seriously one more quick break and more with michael malice right after this Recently, I learned about colostrum, the very first milk. You know what I'm about to say. It's known as liquid gold that babies received from their mothers after birth. I always have to say it that way. Otherwise, I get comments.

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at checkout. That's 25% off when you use code after party at cowboy colostrum.com slash after party. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show. This really does help a lot and tell them our show sent you over that way. All right, we are back with Michael Malice, who last time interrupted me as I was trying to plug his podcast. You're welcome in his book, Not Sick of Winning, A History of President. Trump's first 100 days in office. Mas, where do you stand on Hassan Piker as an anarchist? You've got to be...

I mean, I don't know, are you an accelerationist anarchist? Where are you here? Well, I'd like to... There's some wordplay here. I'd like to be standing on him literally while he's in the ground. Does that answer the question? I think anyone who... I really loathe this kind of...

champagne socialism kind of thing, this kind of limousine leftism, it really rubs me the wrong way. I think he is someone who just says really nasty things and doesn't really have much accountability for it, and what accountability could you really have? You have a microphone, you have the First Amendment. But I do think he's a bad person and a bad actor. And it just, I mean, I don't really have anything particularly insightful. about him? Well, he's on a tour of China and was live streaming in Tiananmen Square. This is pretty clearly, you know, he has live streams for hours and hours and hours. If you've missed the kind of boat on Hassan Piker, he's a leftist streamer. Go watch his interview on the New York Times with

Ross Douthit to get a flavor of what Hassan Pikerism is. He's, I think he's like my age, 30-something in early 30s. He's Jenk Uger's nephew. It came up through the Young Turks world. It's such a successful Twitch streamer came up through talking about politics while playing video games that he lives in a mansion and has a lot of, you know, when I was at the DNC last year, I'm telling you, a lot of young Dem staffers flocking over to Hassan Piker. He was at the Zoron party last week, also getting swamped by young leftists. So now he is in China. Let's go ahead and roll S3 to get a flavor of that. what makes it i mean what makes it interesting for me at least is like seeing so many people

from all other country literally travel here just to see this that part is insane look how many like i just don't like i i'm not i don't have any sort of patriotism in my heart for for any yeah for america but just in general i'm not like a very you know i care about people yeah uh so for me it's like it's it's hard to comprehend yeah but i do understand it in some ways and i kind of wanted to talk to some of the people here because like all of the old people that you see around right you have to remember every single person that you see around us that's like especially if they've been around especially if they've been alive since like the 70s or the 60s they have seen a radical transformation in their lifetimes unlike any other country right so for them i think there's a

lot of pride in that. Well, Malice, I would say the generation before that generation saw a pretty radical transformation in Chinese history. He's standing on where on Jude 4th, 1989, a lot of young people who would have in other context been Hassan Piker fans mowed down by tanks and slaughtered, I don't know, the numbers up top of my head. And that footage was later shown in places like East Germany and other places in the Eastern Block I wrote about my book. The white pill. If you want to talk about transformation, what about East Germany? What about Romania? What about all these other countries which had dictatorships and transition peacefully into successful liberal democracies? So to be walking around there and, you know,

where so many young people who wanted freedom were slaughtered and just being like, oh, I don't have any patriots in my heart. It's just like, you know what, so stay there. You know, I don't want to dunk on him because I don't think this is like some, you know, dumb college lefty on Twitter, like that, what's her name, Juliana, whatever her name is from Texas. Oh, don't you dare. Olivia Giuliana, the men's outreach coordinator. Yeah, like, she's some dumb chick who has opinions on Twitter. Who cares, right? Like, I don't, like, it's funny to dunk on her because whatever, she's kind of silly

in a cartoon figure. This is just, this is just real malevolence. Like, this is just walking on bodies. And at a certain point, it's, stops being funny and just yeah it starts being cute and it's just like is there any any throat you won't slit it's just it's just horrific to me let's actually i want to pull up this video because i think given what you just said it's relevant this is another piker stream from china he he got like censored basically in tianaman square the you could see on the stream people pulling over asking to see his phone authorities pulling him over as he was walking asking to see his phone and then it just the stream just went to black here's more though

from hasan my mind in my conscience i have already become chinese okay we were already white chinese in this chat i've already become full chinese okay let me just start by saying that it's fucking sick okay he's a little buzz like You have abundance-style consumption paired up with a centrally controlled economy, an economic system, that has yielded tremendous development. You have 1950s Soviet-era building blocks next to the Gucci store. if there was more, if there was ever a country that represented the synthesis, the, the, the, the, the, the things that I enjoy so much personally, if ever such a country existed, I do not know. You have to try the premium grilled chicken sandwich at McDonald's China or I'm going to report you to the CCP officials. You have met me at a very Chinese time in my life chat.

Okay. reaction malice i can see like rachel dolizal what the hell is it just yellow like what is he talking about i become chinese they don't want you it's it's it's and they very specifically do not want muslims by the way that is the entire situation in shing jung and he's sitting down with a journalist who has been whitewashing the shing jung allegations it's also they have camps if you're in prison there for people are in prison for political reasons they they experiment on you like the human rights abuses in china are insane and even without those like cases where they're extreme, no one else has any kind of freedom. A free speech. It's just,

it's, it's, it's just very, very disquieting to me to see something like this. I don't know how else to put it. I don't think I have any particular insight. But I mean, if I'm, I would imagine, my high school was half Asian. I went to Stuyves in New York. I imagine if you come here first generation, second generation, and you see this guy in China, you know, dancing around and singing its praises, it's like, I can only imagine what going through your head. Well, in the context of the Mamdani election last week, where we were discussing this early in the show, that Peter Thiel email is making its rounds again about how, what does he say, like 80% of opposition to capitalism can be chalked up to, or he says something like

80% of culture war battles can be chalked up to economics, like cost of living problems that younger people are experiencing. This is when he was more talking about. about millennials, like it was roughly 10 years ago. But it's getting re-uped again because that feels as current now as it did then. And Malas, I'm just, I think you might have some insight into why the Hassan Pekers of the world feel appealing to, or so on Mum Donis, to people right now living in 2025, especially younger people. If I'm young and even remotely center-left, right, how am I going to look at Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as people who care about me

and are fighting for me they're both Biden especially I mean talk about a total corporate party hack he's been around since the 70s he's a puppet of the Democratic Party I'm not going to be inspired by this guy I am going to be inspired by Bernie I am going to be inspired by people who see me

who speak to me who make me feel seen and respected and recognized And the other thing is, if the establishment of the Democratic Party hasn't served me as a young person, I'm going to go with the guy who's on the left who upsets them. Because like, aha, like he's making them angry. That means he's putting forth uncultural truths. He's going to actually go there and make a big difference. I am not too concerned at all about Zora and Mamdani.

I don't think he'll be very different from de Blasio, who is also like a, Tommy. And I'm very, very glad that the New Jersey and Virginia elections went so heavily for the Democrats, because if those were close and he won in New York, the Democratic Party in the midterms would tilt very heavily left. Because when your house has been destroyed, right, how am I going to rebuild? Emily's going to say, let's rebuild in the middle. I'll say, let's rebuild in the left. All right, let's look at the tea leaves. And if the left had been the victor, all right, we got to go to left, but the fact that you had these presented as moderates in New Jersey and Virginia who had huge blowouts against perfectly fine candidates, that is telling me and the Democratic Party leaders

which direction to go. Okay, so if you're talking to maybe a Piker viewer and explaining to them why the idea of a Gucci store next to the Soviet building blocks that Hassan just referenced having seen in China, which I'm assuming he's referencing like industrial capacity, big buildings, new buildings, that type of thing. I've seen that Gucci store. I was in that there on my way to Pyongyang, North Korea. So he's not wrong. There's like a huge, like I was there, there's an Apple store. And when I was at the Apple store in Beijing, I try to look up to Tianmen Square and it's just a blank, it like doesn't come up on Google. Really? Yes. Okay. So what's your response then to somebody who says the idea of Gucci, next to, you know, this marvelous industrial

capacity. It can be done. We can have Stalin and Gucci. We can have Stalin in Gucci. Is it ever possible? My response would be, how did you get my contact info? I'm not really kidding. I think at a certain point where someone has a framework so different from your own, the cost-benefit analysis of trying to bring them to anything remotely reasonable is not there. And I think I don't hew to this idea that this democratic ideal that everyone should get together have a big conversation, there's certain people who should be just marginalized and not engaged with. And if you're singing the praises of concentration camps and totalitarianism, I'm not interested in bringing you toward like a Hillary Clinton liberalism.

I'm not. It's interesting in this media environment, though, because I think, you know, I'm 32, and after the wall fell, that's my entire life. And I think for a generation of people my age, and especially the generation of people younger than me, who were born after 9-11 and are now in college and out of college and the workforce voting and such, a lot of the propaganda is very, it's much easier to believe when you weren't around as the wall was still up, but you weren't around to see the Cold War.

I mean, I think it's easy to brush that aside as like, oh, it's the Uyghurs, that's CIA talking points, which, by the way, some of it might be CIA. It doesn't mean all of it is CIA. There's mountains of evidence of what's happened in Xinjiang. So it just feels like in this media environment, it's an upheld. battle to even have that conversation because nobody trusts anything. And here's the other thing. Just because something's a CIA talking point doesn't mean it's false. The CIA is going to exploit realities to further its agenda. So it's just very bizarre to claim

that whatever the CIA says is a lie. Whatever the CIA says is self-serving, but that doesn't mean inherently they're just making things out a whole cloth. Not that that would be beyond them. They have done that. Of course not. Right. Right. Yeah, but don't you think it's it right now is just like trying to convince people of what's propaganda and what's not, especially historically. It just feels almost impossible. It's like speaking a different language. Yes, I think

what I'm terrified about is AI is going to escalate this. Because my algorithm is going to feed me things that validate my perspective and keep away things that contradict my perspective

and it's going to see very easily evolutionarily what I click on, what I don't, And everyone is going to have a self-reinforcing reality, and I don't know where you go from there. And I think it's happening already. That is completely terrifying. Let's talk about MSNBC's rebrand. Let's check in on MSNBC, Miss Now. They're rebranding to MS now for a lighter story, Malice.

They were caught by the Washington Free Beacon here as F5. We can put up on the screen. Hiring Black actors to feature alongside its white actors in a racial justice-themed ad promoting the MS. now, name change. I do think it should be pronounced miss now because they were so dumb to go from Microsoft NBC to something that literally looks like miss now. Incredible memes when that was first announced, lest we forget. But let's roll the clip here. This is S2. This is the ad. We the people of the United States in order to form a more It's the free beacon set of.

ZipRecruiter.com. And all powered by intuitive. No. For hospitals, care teams, patients, and surgeons in training like me. No. No. Of the United States. Oh, my goodness.

That's crazy. No. States. I'm sorry, everybody, but we are no longer seen people for this role. I'll listen to the band. It keeps going. No. We the free.

Sad ass. What was that? Sad ass black folk? That's what the title of the show was that the act was in. We the people. They shouldn't have fired Joanne Reed, huh? Because you could have given her a bunch of different wigs. And she could play both genders with that potato head, right?

You could have had her to be anything. She could have been a baby. Just put her in a crib, just crop it. Babies love MSNBC. I'm sorry, Babes love MS now. Yeah. God. Good stuff.

What do you want me to say? I mean, it's a beyond a far. You know, I'm going to transition to something that's actually really interesting. You know where you're not going to see black people? Did you watch the Nancy Pelosi retirement video? Yeah, no, this is an interesting point that you made. I saw you made this point on next. Lay it on us. Let's go. So Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco, that far right, radical right-wing jihadi city, she's retiring from Congress after literally 5,000 years. She released a six-minute video saying her goodbyes, six minutes. So it's not like there's time

constraints. Here are things that Nancy Pelosi did not mention in her six-minute long video. She talks about AIDS at length, which obviously affected San Francisco enormously. She does not mention the word gay, homosexual, LGBT, or trans once. To not mention those words when discussing AIDS, if it was a conservative, you think, oh my God, this is despicable. You're just whitewashing this because you don't want to talk. She doesn't mention her black. When she mentions diversity, they show white family. She doesn't mention Black Lives Matter. What does she talk about? The pride flag flashes for a second at

three minutes in like 10 seconds. She talks about Veterans Day, loves the military, and how much she loves St. Francis? And there's a photo of a church, and it's a long shot, and there's the statue of St. Francis. When's the last time you heard Nancy Pelosi talk about St. Francis? Right, never, literally never. She's been around. She knew him personally, and she's never mentioned him until now. So I think conservatives need to wake the F up. I was on Gutfeld earlier in this year, and he was making the point in his monologue that the Democrats are never going to win again. And I said, you guys are crazy. It's not even the end of the first quarter. You're having your victory lap. They are not dumb people in the Democratic Party because the role of the Democratic

Party is the season hold on to power. And they will throw anyone under the bus in order to do so. And I'm shocked at how quickly the conversation has changed. Here's the other thing. In the same way that as gay marriage got more and more comfortable for Americans, it became an issue for Republicans because you either alienate people are gay friendly and gays or you alienate conservatives you don't know how to walk that tightrope and when Supreme Court decided

to legalize gay marriage everywhere in America all the Republicans were very relieved and they stopped talking about it. No one was talking about overturned this constitutional amendment. They're like, oh, I guess this is settled unlike every other Supreme Court decision where they fight. Well, this one's settled. And this thing

with Woke, people like Pelosi are perfectly happy to have it off their desk because now they don't have to alienate their base and they could keep pivoting and encouraging suburban moms in the center. So this has been a huge gift to them to have that been taken off the plate. That's fascinating. Yeah, going from kneeling in 2020 to barely even mentioning anything, gesturing in that direction in her farewell retirement announcement,

actually wanted to ask you before you leave, Michael, about the story you highlighted on Acts from Deadline, where the headline was, nearly half of LGBTQ TV characters are canceled, Glad Fines, quote, a dangerous precedent because it does, in a way, tie back to this Free Beacon story about the MS Now video, which featured black actors to go alongside its white anchors. I mean, they kind of created the situation for themselves, did they not? And then Glad is holding them to the standards that they accepted from Glad for like a decade.

Yeah, but Glad can't do anything. I'll give you two very obvious examples. 20, if you didn't have a BLM square on your Instagram, your company's in trouble, right? The guy who was the head of CrossFit said, why would we do this? We're a gay fitness company. What do we have to do with BLM? He was out the door. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden become vice president president president president.

They wouldn't even turn their calls. BLM was publicly saying, we can't even get someone on the phone. You and I would have both thought, I think, that at least you give a meeting, you send the vice president's, the vice president's job, they shake hands and they go to funerals. and then it's a photo op it goes away publicly they wouldn't even take their calls and also Bill Clinton put forth the most anti-gay

legislation we've seen in decades DOMA Defensive Marriage Act people forget Barack Obama campaigned against gay marriage Dick Cheney was for gay marriage for Barack Obama because as late as 2008 this was a controversial issue but the gay community loves Bill Clinton

they pretend it never happened like oh my God you're amazing blah blah blah blah Hillary you're amazing you campaigned against gay marriage in 2004 look this up John Kerry went to Bill Clinton to ask for advice and had to beat George Bush and Bill Clinton told him run against gay marriage

and John Kerry said I'm not going to do that and if he had done it he would have won because he barely Bush barely squeaked through a victory in 2004 so he was more than happy to throw people on the bus we see this in England the party the equivalent of Democrats

is the Labor Party it's called Labor and as soon as people in unions voted for Boris Johnson did you know they're all white supremacists oh these people in unions they're all racist we hate them your party's called labor. They don't care. All they care about is seizing and maintaining power. And for people who doubt this and who think the Democrats would never throw this constituency or that constituency on the bus, ask yourself this, if Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden or Chuck Schumer had to choose between whatever group you want and them having power or their own family and them having power, what you think they're going to choose? Is that really a hard question? No, that sounds completely accurate.

And for Pelosi to come, of course, yes, to come from San Francisco, the frontier of the gay rights movement and to have her career actually map pretty neatly onto the arc of the gay rights movement starting in the 1980s, 90s, 2000s. I think it does show that the gay rights generation of Democrats clashed with the cultural Marxist generation of Democrats in a way that is not gone. This is going to dog them years of the future because millennials, I was at the Aspen Institute early this summer. I covered it on the show. It's like, these people are still doing the pronoun thing. And it was all millennials. It wasn't the zoomers, wasn't the Xers. It was all millennials.

And they will obviously continue to be drowned out. But they're going to be powerful. We're going to be powerful for a long time into the future. Yeah, I think that's true. But I also think that people, it's very hard to make people care about trans issues when you can't get an airplane or you can't put the food at table. Like, people just don't care. People cared a few years ago.

because it's a way to posture. Look how open-minded I am. Screw you dad. I've got a trans friend who's an accessory. But as soon as that costs to the White House, it's like, yeah, goodbye and good luck. Well, Michael Malice, host of your welcome. Thank you. That's a good way to put it. He's the host of your welcome. I'm thanking him. Michael, thanks for coming back on the show. It's so much fun to have you here. I will be back with 100 candles next time you're on. Always a pleasure. It's a promise. All right. Oh, always so much fun. to have Michael here. Well, I promised at the beginning of the show that I would have some original reporting on, dare I call it, Grooper Gate. I really don't want to call it

Grooper Gate. This all kicked off. We've covered a couple times on the show. My general position is that it's been over-discussed that the issue of Tucker Carlson interviewing Nick Fuentes and then the Heritage Foundation President standing with Tucker Carlson against donors and then leaks coming out of the Heritage Foundation, criticizing Kevin Roberts in a million different ways. My general position on this is that it has been overblown. The entire issue, while legitimate, I do think there is legitimately a problem

with young people growing up in this economy, in this political climate, looking at more radical infringed ideologies as a sort of balm and either in a nihilistic way or an optimistic way. We could talk about this with the, Luigi cult. We could talk about it with the Fuentes cult. We could talk about it with the weird Tyler Robinson supporters. It's obviously a thing. And yes, that means it's happening to some young people on the right as well. But my general position on this, since it started with the young

Republicans group chat text leaks where they were joking in overt, just like stupid, unfunny ways about Nazis and racism, there were utterly powerless people. Yes, one of them was like a state senator. Yes, they had different positions in like the official GOP apparatus. I wouldn't dismiss that. I obviously think they were punished appropriately. But they weren't representative, truly. I mean that they really mean that, that they weren't representative because they were expunged.

They were immediately kicked out. If everyone was doing that, you can't kick out people for doing it, nor would you. And, you know, I think the same thing right now, just about this entire conversation over how many people are truly, like, groopers, how many people are just watching Flentes for entertainment value or anything like that. And it's, these questions, by the way, I should mention this. It is so, like, to even have to, I hate looking this stuff up.

I hate having it on my phone. I just, like, I'm so just thoroughly disgusted by some of the stuff that comes out of like the meme world. And that sounds like me being a cringe millennial, but even dwelling in this for too long, it's such a dark place, such a dark place. And the other thing is you probably experienced this too. Like as a journalist in particular,

you really don't ever know what's happening to your data. Because it can be bought by the government, it can be bought by private actors who then give it to the government. It can go in all kinds of different ways. And so, I don't know, we talk all the time here about big tech censorship, like the Twitter files, Facebook suppressing 2020 stories, YouTube demonetization, all of that stuff we talk about. And censorship, though, it's not just about what you can say. It's also about what apps that you can access, what content gets thrown, or what gets buried in the algorithm. And I think this is important, even the kinds of information that you seek out, right?

You start to sort of self-censor and say, well, I don't even want to, like, look this up because that's going to me. my search history. But there is, that's like the cool thing about some of the new like parallel economy stuff coming out. It's one of the reasons actually I use the up phone right here. You can see it. You can see all the apps right there. They have their own app center. It's got access to two million apps. They're free from big tech censorship. You're not locked into Apple's walled garden or Google's app store where they decide what you can download. And then every app goes through a firewall and you can see the information on the firewall that is. collected or prevented from being collected every single day.

It prevents them from transmitting your location, your private data to data brokers. It's really digital freedom in the truest sense. You can check it out at unplugged.com. My favorite feature is one of the things you can see on the side of the phone. I'm literally going to show this to you. It's the battery disconnect feature right there, if you can see this, on the side of the phone, right here, I'm going to point at it. The battery disconnect feature, you can actually.

remotely activate. A lot of people don't know this. Your phones when they're off. So that compromises your privacy, but the upphone battery disconnect, that switch just on the side of your phone. Let's say you're going through customs and they ask to look at your phone because you're a journalist or whatever else. And we've seen the way that people are many times unfairly connected to data or whatever else it is. You just switch this off, physically switch this off and it securely powers it off. So you don't even have to work. about unauthorized camera or microphone access, and if you need to go dark or travel from one place to another with total privacy, you just do it manually on the phone. That gives me some

peace of mind, truly gives me some peace of mind when thinking about all of this stuff, because even, again, I think about this as a journalist, and I know most average Americans aren't journalists, but if you think about all of the power that is being concentrated in the hands of, like, law enforcement around the country and all of that, there are a million ways. to tie someone based on what's on their phone to something in one direction or the other direction. Actually, that has happened, by the way, to Tucker Carlson, who is the feature of the story. I mean, his stuff that got pulled out of his phone and discovery and the Dominion lawsuit, all of it. You know, whatever you think about what's in the content of that, it's peace of mind to know that,

you know, say you get pulled into something, it's not coming. You have control over your data, if that makes sense. So it's just an element of peace of mind. And with the talker stuff, I've been thinking about this quote that I read from Rod Drear, who's on the show recently and as somebody that I read every single thing he writes. I commend his book Living in Wonder, his book, Live Not by Lies. I talk about how good Rod Dreher stuff is all of the time. He has been in the last couple of weeks thinking a lot about the Groyper question and Groyper Gate and all of that. And he wrote in the free press today, quote, for some time now I've been hearing from conservative friends who teach in high schools and universities that anti-Semitism and white nationalism are on the rise among their white male students. More recently, conservatives in Washington, D.C. have been saying to me that the influence of neo-Nazi Holocaust denying live streamer Nick Fuentes has taken off among Gen Z congressional and administration staffers.

One older insider put the number of Fuentes fans and fellow travelers so-called Groybers in these Washington circles at 30 to 40%. That's a number that Rod published on his blog, I think it was last week, and then repeated another time. And I started hearing from it and people in D.C. being like, whoa, 30 to 40 percent. I saw some people on the left like Derek Thompson posting it. And it was being taken as a serious representation of what young conservatives here in D.C. are like. And so Rod continues to say in the free press, huge if true, as the kids say, last week I went to Washington for a few days on business and had a number of conversations with Zoomer conservatives about the issue. I asked them about the scale of the gripper problem in light of the controversy raging. He said, here's the bad news. It's worse than I thought. And nobody knows what to do about it. I ran the 30 to 40 percent claim past the conservative zoomers I spoke to in D.C. Every one of them affirmed it. Christian faith, they explained, has not inoculated young men against anti-Semitism, which is now infused in the conversations of conservative Catholic. Protestant and Orthodox members of Gen Z. Two Christian Zomers told me that anti-Semitism

and sometimes used as a litmus test to join particular social groupings. Now, if you know my background, you probably know that I come out of the conservative youth movement. I was one of those conservative college students active when I was at George Washington University. So I've been in D.C. since about 2011.

I immediately went to work in the years after for the conservative youth movement. And when I went into journalism, ended up for about five years working part-time as the director of the National Journalism Center. So working with young conservative journalists through the pandemic until literally last year. And had a lot, I still speak to tons of student groups. I'm still on the board of the student group that I originally worked for. So I have a lot of conversations with young conservatives.

I make it part of my goal to meet young conservatives who come here to Washington, D.C. for their internships or for their first jobs out of college. And this 30 to 40% figure, all respect again in the world for Rod Dreher is like not in any way close to my experience. It's shocking to me to hear that somebody is telling Rod that and that other zoomers have confirmed it because I went to seven sources. This is just the people that I got quotes from. But I've been working the phones. I've been running Rod's position or Rod's quote past all kinds of. of people, senior sources, Gen Z sources, to try to see if I could find anybody who, like Rod found these zoomers in D.C., who confirmed that point about 30 to 40 percent, just to get the quote

right here, Fuentes fans and fellow travelers, so-called Groypers in these Washington circles at 30 to 40 percent. So this is not just people who follow Fuentes videos on TikTok for the hell of it, because he says weird stuff, kind of like Alex Jones. Alex Jones is a very viral TikTok figure doesn't mean that people love Alex Jones as an ideologue. It means that he says funny stuff about frogs being turned gay, and they watch those videos. So we're talking about, as Rod puts it here, so-called gropers in these Washington circles at 30 to 40 percent. All right, I'm going to read through the quotes that I got as I was working, my sources, working the phones, talking to people to try and find the real truth of this story, because again, it is wildly contrary

to my experience. Now, I do think it's true that there are some real struggles, especially among young men, not entirely among young men, but especially among disillusioned young men who spend way too much time on the internet, who often have found better friendships on the internet than they have in real life, shy people who went through the pandemic. And Rod has been excellent in pointing out all of the ways that the agenda of the left has created a climate in which a lot of young men are looking for answers in nihilism or in fringe right-wing ideas. They grew up in capital P.W. Peak woke. So that's, Rodnick, I agree completely on that point.

I just disagree that this is an accurate number. I trust that his sources are his sources, so not disputing that. But let me just go through what I heard. So this is a senior house GOP source, quote, that is bullshit. And I've met with probably more Gen Z for coffee than 90% of the others. This is a senior conservative youth movement source. The rising generation of conservative leaders in Washington are overwhelmingly not aligned with the ideas that conspired to scapegoat others for lack of ambition or achievement. Whatever attempts to astroturf influence they may make, a few noisy individuals simply can't be extrapolated to constitute a serious faction among Washington's conservatives.

Now, I heard that few noisy individuals line from another person. This is an administration source who I presented the 30 to 40 percent number two. And they said, it's a loud minority, but not to the double digits. So not even like 10% is what this person said. And again, that's an administration source. A former Trump official said, all this tells us is these people don't actually have good relationships on Capitol Hill. Yes, young Republican staffers are frustrated by focus on foreign affairs instead of domestic

concerns like housing, inflation, and jobs. But this is just another careless attack on people, by people out of touch. None of these kids want to be Nick Fuentes, a weird, racist, angry loaner who's probably gay. They want what every American has wanted for generations to raise a family in a home they own, working in a job, and in a community that gives their life, meaning they don't see how doing the bidding of Netanyahu or importing millions of Chinese students or Indian H-1Bs helps them achieve the American dream. I'll just personally tack on something to that quote, again, from a former Trump official, to say that this is part of where the Fuentes discourse, I think, gets

overblown, which is that a lot of people listen to Fuentes because there aren't a lot of other right-wing folks who criticize Donald Trump. And so they may not agree with Fuentes, but he's one of the few people who's actually giving like detailed arguments in disagreement with Donald Trump on H-1Bs, on Netanyahu, on the Chinese student visa question. And so because of that, sometimes it does suck people into the genuine Fuentes-Griper ideology, but also, you're just going to have, the longer people stay away from criticizing Trump from the right on issues, again, where the right should be unhappy with Donald Trump, H-1B's being a good example, the more people then end up turning to Fuentes. Now, he doesn't convert most of them

to grapers, but you don't want people even swimming in those waters to begin with. So I thought that was an interesting point. But again, he says these people don't actually have good relationships on Capitol Hill, anybody who is saying that 30 to 40 percent figure. Now, So this is a senior Republican source. GOP staffers in D.C., young GOP staffers in D.C. are more Fox than Fuentes. This person pointed to how all of young D.C. was mourning when Charlie Kirk was assassinated. What does that tell us? Charlie Kirk was the biggest enemy of Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes was the biggest enemy of Charlie Kirk. Nick Fuentes and Charlie Kirk were held up as, rightfully,

two opposite warring viewpoints that were budding heads over the course of the last. however many years. And everybody in D.C., young Republicans were completely mourning after what happened to Charlie Kirk. Obviously, Fuentes himself was mourning because he had such a personal back and forth with Charlie Kirk over the years. It doesn't mean that he certainly doesn't mean that he's like rubber stamping, you know, and saying suddenly that he is truly, like, what's the best way to put it? It doesn't mean that he's suddenly coming around to the wisdom of Charlie Kirk or anything like that. He hasn't. But that should tell you a lot that young DC is not 30 to 40 percent Groyper's because I'm telling you, I was at the White House that I was talking to

young staff at the White House that day. Those weren't Groypers. Those are people who were Kirk followers. And that's very powerful to think of, I think in that sense as well. Here's a senior house source. I haven't seen any indication that the young people in this world are into Nick Fuentes or are anti-Semitic. I think there's likely a category error of the neo-isolationism, neo-B canonism that results in invoking Israel-driven foreign policy versus the honest-to-god, Hitler was right, provocateurship. This is an administration source who I asked specifically to respond to Dreher's line. Two Christians omers told me that anti-Semitism is sometimes used as a litmus test to join particular social groupings. Again, I want to be clear. I'm not doubting that people

told Rod this. I'm doubting that those people are giving a truly accurate picture of what's happening here in D.C. because I've spent so much time thinking about the conservative youth movement professionally, working in the conservative youth movement professionally, and this is not an accurate picture from my perspective. So an administration source responded to that line by saying this is just false. Antisemitism insofar as it exists on the majority of the young right is a punchline. People are skeptical of Israel, but that doesn't mean they hate Jews. They hate being told what they're allowed to think and find funny. So that is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, sources that I pinged and they're from all different places. So we're talking about House,

we're talking about the House representatives, the administration, we're talking about the party itself. This is a pretty well-rounded group of sources that I spoke to who gave me all of this and said it's not even close to true. It might be around 9% at most, right, not even double digits, which is still too many, I agree. And my position on this, as we talked about last week, has been you need to earn back those people. You don't demand the trust of young people who have no reason to trust you.

Now, they also have no reason to be anti-Semitic bigots. No question about it. But the Republican Party right now should be laser-focused on talking about how they are fixing the workforce so that people can have fulfilled the meaningful lives, how they are creating an economy where homeownership and the American dream feels doable to people who feel emiserated.

These are the conversations that should completely dominate the Republican Party right now, and there's been a conversation that's serious, but has focused on the issue as though it is the top thing. I agree, by the way, 40% of the Republican Party was the young Republican Party were legitimately anti-Semitic groipers, yeah, you should be talking about that all of the time and figuring out what to do about it. But the number is, I think at best, the administration source is right, 9, 8, 9%. You're always going to have some fringe, especially among young people who are into weird stuff. So maybe in the past, it's been 4 or 5%. It might still be at that number.

It's very hard now to know what's representative just of the online right versus the right in general. But, yes, the conversation, as we were talking about with Michael Malice, on the Peter Thiel email to Facebook folks that's going viral again about how 80% of culture war issues, you can chalk up to economic concerns among, he was talking about millennials at the time. What does that tell Republicans? if they want to pull people out of online nihilism and online irony poisoning and noxious meme culture, give people hope offline. Talk about a better economy and a better world, help restore the fabric of civil society and places that are, honestly, a lot of red districts that are suffering in this way. So, yeah, I think that the far more important thing at this point is focusing on ways to lift people up and pull them out of misery, whether it's sending them to grapers, whether it's sending them just totally to disengage and smoke weed, live in the basement, whatever it is, or just be angry and miserable and impossible to find a partner in life.

There are so many more important things. You can do both. You walk and chew gum at the same time. You can set the appropriate expectations. Don't just demand that people put their trust back in you after you've presided over a system that failed to see the threat that was coming from like woke at ideology and failed people economically, failed people spiritually. You can't demand their trust and tell them they must put their trust back in you. You have to earn their trust. And that will, we can't promise that it's going to, you know, get rid of all anti-Semitism,

bigotry that exists, and whatever number exists on the right. But that does help. And there are people who can be saved and pulled out of despair by better conditions spiritually. In fact, this is just what Charlie Kirk was trying to do. And it's why the majority of staffers here in D.C., young Republican staffers mourned his death with great emotion because they looked up to Charlie Kirk. They followed Charlie Kirk and they really appreciated Charlie Kirk, especially after he started talking about spiritual and economic condition that was ailing young Americans. So I just wanted to very

respectfully, of course, push back on that 30 to 40 percent number. I do find it to be dangerous because me, my seven sources, it is not reflective of our experience here in Washington, D.C. I I hope that that's good news, and I hope it does give people some comfort about what's happening in Washington, D.C., but of course, I just want to reiterate that. I appreciate Rod's writing, not personal, just a response here on that number, because it's so alien to my experience. You know, the last, I moved here in 2011. It was part of the, like, Tea Party era conservative youth movement and still work with

students and interns a lot to this day, and just, I just haven't seen that. So thank you so much for tuning into this long edition of AfterParty. Appreciate it. You can shoot me an email for Happy Hour on Friday over at Emily at double-maycaremedia.com. Send us questions at the AfterParty, Emily, Instagram, and stay tuned next Monday for more after party live right here at 10 p.m. Eastern. By the way, you can tune in 2 p.m. SiriusXM, the Megan Kelly channel every single day, Monday through Friday.

I am there for the full hour hosting the Megan Kelly wrap-up show. show. Make sure to tune in on Sirius XM 111. That is the Megan Kelly channel. We'll see you there, everyone. See you tomorrow.