After Party with Emily Jashinsky - Hasan Piker’s “Sewer Socialism,” SHOCK Fauci Text, Roseanne Betrayal, w/ Malice, & Dobby’s Fake Grave

Episode Date: August 13, 2026

Emily Jashinsky is joined by Michael Malice, host of “YOUR WELCOME” and author of "The White Pill: A Tale of Good and Evil,” to discuss Wisconsin DSA candidate Francesca Hong’s narrow defeat and Hasan Piker’s recent push for “sewer socialism.” Michael also offers a fascinating history lesson on anarchist Emma Goldman and her evolution from revolutionary radical to fierce critic of Soviet authoritarianism. They react to Massachusetts’ disturbing new abortion law, newly released Fauci messages about COVID shots and pregnancy, and the lasting collapse of trust after the pandemic. Michael then unloads on former “Roseanne” star Michael Fishman for defending ABC’s firing of Roseanne Barr and offers a surprisingly sympathetic take on Rosie O’Donnell’s feud with Trump. Emily rounds out the show with the bizarre fight over Dobby’s so-called “grave” and what she believes it reveals about adults who struggle to let go of childhood.   PreBorn: Help save a baby go to https://PreBorn.com/Emily or dial #250 keyword BABY   Lean: Discover why LEAN is becoming the choice for real weight‑loss results—shop now at https://TAKELEAN.com use code EMILY.    ZBiotics: Go to https://zbiotics.com/AFTERPARTY and use AFTERPARTY at checkout for 15% off any first-time orders of ZBiotics probiotics. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to After Party, everyone. Thank you so much for being here with us. Our guest tonight is the one and only Michael Malice, certainly one of my favorite recurring guests on the show. And because Michael has actually spent a good deal of time studying the history of communism and socialism in the United States, he's really the perfect person to talk to. Tonight, Francesca Hong, obviously lost by a hair, was wildly outspent by her opponent, David Crowley, her primary opponent, David Crowley. Primary actually has a dual meeting there. her main rival in this race. It really did become a two-way race towards the end. But also, this was primary election. And so now Hong will not be moving on to the general election versus Tom Tiffany, but really was majorly outspent and lost by a hair just as Peggy Flanagan in Minnesota. Bernie back Peggy Flanagan absolutely trounced the establishment candidate in that race, Angie Craig. So it looks like certainly a setback for the DSA who thought they had in Francesca Hong, someone who would be able to say we can keep a bit of the cultural baggage from woke one, as AOC would say, we can keep a bit of that and still push ahead into these general

elections and with economic populism be appealing to the masses. That experiment is certainly not going to play out because it didn't actually even quite cross the finish line with Democratic primary voters with Michael Malice. We're going to get into the history, not just of socialism in Wisconsin, where Francesco Hong like to remind people and Hassan Piker like to remind people there is a real history, but also throughout the country. So don't miss that. Well, we're also going to cover that new Fauci text message where he expressed theoretically some concerns about the vaccine for pregnant women. These concerns were never raised by Fauci publicly. They were just privately raised in text messages that Ron Johnson's team was able to dig up. So we'll discuss that. We'll discuss a discussing new law

Democrats passed and celebrated in the state of Massachusetts, making them the 11th state to allow late-term abortions. And in Massachusetts, it goes so far. We'll explain exactly how far it goes. Michael's really good friends with Roseanne, and we have new comments from Michael Fishman. You may remember as a child star from the original Roseanne. And he's revisiting the 2018 cancellation, literal cancellation. This was an example of actual cancel culture because the Roseanne reboot was canceled. And this case study, I think is one of the most important ones, especially as we're revisiting a woke one.

And Fishman has some fresh comments that open up a good conversation about what really happened. We're going to get malice to weigh in on that. Also, Rosie O'Donnell, admitting that basically she's re-famous only because of Donald Trump. I'm going to cover this wild New York Times report about activists rallying to save Dobby's grave, quote unquote, Davy's grave on a wild. Welsh Beach. I'll have some thoughts on Disney adults, Harry Potter adults. Hopefully it'll be a little bit more nuanced than sometimes here. Sometimes people are mean about that. I'll try not to be too mean. But with that said, let's go ahead, bring in Michael Mouse and get on with tonight's show. If you haven't subscribed, please do. It's the best way that you can help the show out.

Subscribe on YouTube. That helps us keep doing our independent journalism. And of course on the podcast feed where our show is three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Where on the Friday show, I answer your questions that you send in to Emily at devil makecaremedia.com. Without further ado, quick break than Michael Mouse. Well, hey there, everyone. I'm really honored right now to be able to pass along a heartfelt thank you from my friends at Preborn, and you all know how much I love Preborn. It's such an important organization.

Their president, Dan Steiner, actually asked me to share just how grateful they are for faithful supporters like you. So far this year, because of generous partners, more than 50,000 babies have been saved from abortion. Let's just pause on that number and think about it for a moment. That's 50,000 lives change and generations impacted. So an incredible number. Every tax deductible gift is used to rescue babies and share the hope of Jesus Christ with their moms. And in fact, this year alone, more than 8,000 women have made decisions to follow Christ all because someone like you helped provide a free ultrasound. It costs just $28 to provide one life-saving ultrasound and $15,000

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Or visit preborn.com slash Emily. That's preborn.com slash Emily. Excited to have Michael Malice joining us now. Michael Malice is, of course, host of your welcome and author of The White Pill, A Tale of Good and Evil. Malice, welcome back. Thanks so much for having me. If you're listening to this, you missed it.

He waved. Like he's a little kid on the school bus that's pulling away from his mom's house. You're just saying that because I got violated by the driver. I didn't. Listen, I wasn't going to bring it up. But speaking of trauma, you had to see Francesco Hong go down, not quite in flames. Actually, Francesco Hong in my home state of Wisconsin, obviously a candidate of the DSA, very much like Zora Mamdani and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, DSA being Democratic Socialists of America, which has, I think they're now saying about 110,000 members on their roles.

Those are like literal card-carrying members. And she didn't quite go down in that flame. she barely spent any money compared to her more moderate, I guess you could say, opponent David Crowley, who spent millions of dollars. She seems to have lost by within one point as the votes are still being tallied. And again, that's after spending almost no money and having all of the social media history that was being digested, we'll say that, over the last couple of weeks. In fact, speaking of this, can we put up these pictures from her victory party?

It was supposed to be a victory party who was less than victorious. Look at this. My entire polycule voted for Fran Hong. Incredible. Incredible. Michael Malice, that was the scene at the Francesco Hong victory party last night. What is your reaction to this defeat? She came around 40%, which is where she had been in the polls,

but the polls also had her up by double digits on her opponent. So were you surprised to see your go down? I was quite surprised. because she had such a huge lead in the polls. The base is always going to be the ones who come out in the primary. So historically speaking, the more radical you are, it's going to be easy to get the people who are going to be willing to knock on the doors because it's going to be hard to knock on the doors for someone who's like the corporate hack candidate.

At the same time, we can't be surprised that the Democratic Party helped a black man steal a job from an Asian woman. This is basically their entire platform has been for decades. Kudos to them. and I think to the Conservatives watching this, I have said for years, and I will say it again, the Hillary Clinton, Biden, corporate hackwing of Democratic Party, including Nancy Pelosi, have done a far better job at shutting on Bernie Sanders

and the squad than the Republicans ever did. So people who the Conservatives think that the left is a big monolith, they don't realize in the same way that you probably really hate Liz Cheney Mitt Romney, they hate these DSA people, people like Pelosi, Hakeem Jeffries, who they regard as the only one. standing in their way of a Democratic Socialist takeover of America. I don't think they're entirely wrong.

And I think people who are partisan Republicans, and I can understand why, should appreciate the job that these otherwise you would regard to the despicable people do in keeping the crazies at bay. And for those who don't see a difference in Pelosi and like Francesca Hong, let me break it down for you guys. The Democratic Socialists believe inequality over everything. What that means is if I'm working at a company, I should have as much right as the CEO to decide how the company is run. We each have one vote.

That's economic democracy. It means if you have a mansion, Emily, and I don't have a house, I have as much right to your house as you do. It means no one should be in prison because the only reason people commit crimes is because of inequality. And we need to take resources from people who are otherwise successful. but what they mean by successful is what they regard is theft. If you have money, you stole it from somebody else and work to help those people who are otherwise criminals become kind of more indoctrinated

over the word where they would use into our society. It is a violently radically different worldview than this kind of corporate wing where it's just like we're going to do Wall Street's bidding, raise some taxes on people and have a welfare state. And because Americans are used to the idea from TV and movies that crazy people should look crazy

when they look at someone like a Francesca Hong they're like okay she just seems like someone with the college with she's crazy I think she's probably literally crazy because this does disproportionately draw

literally mentally ill people you see it in social media all the time people gloat about their mental illness female liberals her age are disproportionately mentally ill that is just a fact it's you can find that right and not mentally ill like

oh, you know, she's moody certain times of the month. Mentally ill as in like severe delusions and disturbed thinking. And I think you see it slip out from her all the time. Well, this is an important point that I want to get to because she tried really hard to focus on what she called the three peas. And I want to actually get into some of the history because you are something of a historian of the communist movement and the socialist movement in the United States

in the late up to the 20th century and then in the 20th century. So let's tee it up. Let's tee up this conversation with a clip of Francesca Hong saying her message is really about the three P's. It was hard for her to make that message when the conversation was about her absurd posts on cultural leftism, which does matter to voters. I think that's partially what we learned. But let's take a listen here to how on Election Day, she's still pretty, I think, desperately trying to explain what her message is. The things that we are fighting for, universal child care, the fully funding public schools. You know, today is the day that the Green Bay Packers were founded, are publicly owned NFL team.

I think that Wisconsin has a proud history of progressivism and the policies that we are fighting for. Honor that, but more importantly, they honor working class people who should be first in government. And she posted that on X with the caption, when people ask about my style progressive politics, I always start with the three peas, fixing potholes, fully funding our public schools, and our community-owned Green Bay Packers, community-owned a little different than publicly owned that has a sort of specific connotation. But because she brought up Wisconsin's history of progressivism and really socialism, I also want to play this clip of Hassan Piker on the trail for Francesco Hong talking about Wisconsin's history of sewer socialism.

You know, I did a little bit of research before I got here because, look, I know about sewer socialism, This is where it was invented. Right? That's right. Municipal socialism. Now look, nowadays, when you think about this kind of thing, when you think about the Democratic Socialists of America, people think of New York.

People think of Chicago. Maybe they think of Los Angeles. But what they don't realize is this is where the American socialist movement invented sewer socialists. Long before Zoron and Bernie Sanders. Mom, Donnie nodded explicitly to sewer socialism or has throughout his career, Michael Malice. And there you have the crowd of Hong voters cheering enthusiastically when he mentioned sewer socialism. She's mentioned it as well before by name.

But again, you've written a book on this. And you know this history. And here we are in 26. You have Democratic Party voters in Wisconsin cheering for the return of sewer socialism. Yeah. I feel like I'm not hearing these correctly. They're saying sewer, S-E-W-E-R. They sure are.

I feel like that is something like some MAGA person would say to make fun of them. It sounds like something that you would hear from like Todd Starns. Right. It's just like, oh, you call it super socialism. Well, I call it sewer socialism because you've got to flush this garb. Like I, we're past parody since 2016. let's be 2015, technically, when he went down the escalator. They're not incorrect.

So the Lafoyette family were these big progressive icons. There was, people don't know this, in the early 20th century, a huge progressive wing within the Republican Party. Teddy Roosevelt was perhaps the best known exemplar of this. And Lafoyette's for decades, there was a third-party run by Robert Lafoyette, were kind of the Bernie Sanders of their time. This was like 100 years ago or a little over 100 years ago.

But he is also forgetting that Joe McCarthy succeeded to that seat. So McCarthyism, even though it didn't start with McCarthy or the D's Committee earlier, has certainly strong roots in Wisconsin as a reaction. But it's completely disingenuous and intentionally so. So people watching this, I sure can appreciate that socialists know that they have to lie to get into power. So the Fabian Society was the first socialist. organization in the UK, started in the 1880s or 189s, I don't remember, which later developed into the London School of Economics and the Labor Party. Do you know what their mascot was

when they first started, Emily? No, I don't. It was literally, I'm not kidding, because Google it, people think I'm making it up a wolf and sheep's clothing. Perfect. And then when they're like, this is too on the nose, they changed the tortoise because slow and steady wins the race. Point being, their ideology means they know that Karen, who is the swing voter, isn't going to go for the socialism if it's delivered as one big chunk. But if you give her piece by piece, it's just the schools.

It's just the sewers. Hey, you want a sports team in your town, don't you? Well, the way that sounds, that sounds like something Giuliani would say. You know, I'm for fixing the potholes, clean sewage, and let's go, let's go Yankees. And when you ask them, well,

what about prisons, what we believe in abolishing them? that's kind of different from we want to make sure the roads are safe and secure for everybody to drive on them. And I think that's really what sets this version of the movement apart, which is that socialism now comes with this cultural leftist baggage attached to it. And some of it, by the way, would be familiar to folks like we're going to talk about Emma Goldman in just one moment, who was culturally very much a leftist as well. But some of it would be laughable to earlier iterations of progressives because it's so wacky, frankly, and actually regressive in some sense. But I was really transfixed by the Peterson Academy edition that you did.

I think it came out six months ago. A lot of this is in your book. But I wanted to talk a bit about Emma Goldman and what Emma Goldman's arc tells us about what we're seeing right now. Because she's frankly an example of somebody who wasn't trying to lie about what would happen. my shoulder. Look at her. She's also beautiful. Well, not quite a natural beauty, Michael Malice, but charismatic. Charismatic, yes. Ultimately, I suppose, perhaps a beautiful soul. We'll get into that. But let's take a listen here to how you described a bit about her coming up, her early career, in this Peterson Academy episode. In 1892, there was a strike at the Homestead Steelworks,

run by Andrew Carnegie and his right-hand man, Henry Clay Frick. The workers were on strike negotiating not even for a raise, not even for the same pay, but they were fighting a pay cut, even as Carnegie was making bundles upon bundles of profits. Henry Clay Frick, he simply fired them all at shut down the factory. And then he hired a bunch of private security, including the notorious, Pinkertons. And his history doesn't record who shot first. Many people were killed. Politicians reached out to Frick trying to get him to compromise, but he dug in his heels. This enormously inspired Goldman and Berkman. If they took out Frick, they would be the heroes

that would set up the revolution. Berkman got a gun. He got a knife. He shot Frick. The first bullet hit Frick in the ear. he fired again, hitting Frick in the neck. Birkin pulled out his knife and began to stab Frick, and then he was tackled and subdued. The assassination completely failed. If anything happened as a result of this, people only had sympathy for Frick.

Even the members of the Union shook their heads, knowing that this made them look bad because their whole argument was, we're just trying to get more food for our families. We're not violent thugs like the capitalists are. Shades of Luigi and also, I guess, some of a bit the public backlash or parallels with the public backlash that we've seen to the adoration for Luigi and Mangione as well. But Michael, I was hoping you could tell us a bit about the arc of Emma Goldman, where she started

with this Henry Clay Frick story, but then also where she ended up because it could be a lesson that genuine leftists might want to pay attention to. Well, I'm flattered to have this imitation because I love some of the same. singing the praises of Emma Goldman to right of center audiences because they, this idea, which I know you do not share, that the left is a monolith and basically they're all interchangeable is completely crazy and nonsensical. And I do not expect concerns to approve of Emma Goldman's love of blood and violent revolution. But I do think they can approve of her desire and demonstrated capacity of speaking truth to power. So broadly speaking, I'll just tell a funny story from 1901.

one, Leon Shalgosh goes to Buffalo, shoots President McKinley. McKinley is laying, dying for several days. And he's arrested, of course, on the spot interviewed. And they're like, why did you do it? He goes, Emma Goldman radicalized me. And she's like, oh, crap. Shagosh had been such a weirdo that all the anarchists who he was traveling, like, you know, kind of making his way around, thought he was a Fed.

They really, they were like, something's off with this guy. She's on the run because back then, just as is now. Now, if the president got shot, there must have been some broader conspiracy behind this. You can't just have one crazy take out a president. Come on, do you hear yourself? They arrest her. They ransack different places. They're trying to find proof that this was a broad conspiracy.

There was none. They had to let her go. And she became, of course, the most hated woman in America. So come Wilson's presidency, you have things called the Palmer raids, which conservatives doesn't know about the lefties, still talk about all the time, which lots of these labor organizations were rated by turn in general because there had been a wave of anarchist terror. Bombs were being sent in the mail. One anarchists went across the street from where the rose to Franklin Eleanor were staying at the time, blew himself up. His leg was on FDR's doorstep. This is before FDR was

stricken with polio. And there were laws passed and radicals were deported. It was called the Red Arc. And a young J. Edgar Hoover personally came to to escort Ms. Goldman and Alexander Bruckman, her lover and partner in liberal crime, to get deported to what would become the Soviet Union. What's interesting is they basically stripped her of her citizenship in the same way Trump is speaking now of denaturalizing people.

So she goes to the Soviet Union, they're anarchists, they're not Bolshev, except at all, but basically the idea was, okay, we've overthr they were through the Tsar, now we've overthrown the bourgeois parliament. We gotta work together, we're gonna figure out if us broad left ring radicals can make this work.

And her and Berkman were absolutely horrified. Goldman said explicitly, I'm not worried about blood. I'm not worried about killing people. But are you killing people to help the workers? Are you killing people to help revolution in peace? You're not. You're targeting them.

You are worse than what happened before. She and Berkman leave the Soviet Union. She writes a book called My Disillusion in Russia, which was split the two books, including my further dissolution in Russia. and she was Red Emma like she was there first she was the first left she was the Hassan

of her day the first big left and a woman too like which is such a big deal at the time she goes to England she gives us talk standing ovation and when she's just denouncing what's going on in the Soviet Union the authoritarianism the bloodshedding

the oppression by the time she was done you could hear pin drop because they didn't want to hear it they knew these lefty intellectuals in England who never stepped foot outside their country, better than her, who had been there, who'd been fighting for the revolution for decades, they knew what they were talking about. And she didn't. Sit down and shut up, Emma.

They called her bourgeois. You know, this woman who had been willing to assassinate for her cause. Now she's basically being called like a Martha Stewart figure. She wasn't allowed back in the U.S. ever again, except for a brief tour. She ended up her days in Canada. But till the day she died, she never stopped speaking out against, you know, Democrats. not democratic, authoritarian socialism. So she's a fascinating figure.

I love that she lived by the courage of convictions. And there's this great line that she has, which I think is true today, because people take for, we take so much for granted. So she gave a talking square, and she told the workers who, putting it 60 hours a day, couldn't feed their family. She goes, go to factories, ask for work.

If they don't give you work, ask for bread. If they don't give you bread, take bread. Point being, you don't have an obligation to starve. And I think that's something that can appeal to a lot of people in the sense that there's something wrong if you're putting in an honest day's work and your kids are starving. Thankfully, that's no longer the case in America for various reasons. But point being, people don't realize how dire the situation was back then, but it's nothing like that now at all. It's impossible to starve this country. I was talking to Akami a couple years ago, and she was telling me that as many people starve in America as starve in North Korea.

and my friend who was there was apoliticals says, let's look this up. And he looked it up. Do you know how many people starve in America? I don't remember the number, but literally all of them were like people who were like captives. Like some, I kidnap you,

I put you in my basement, I'll give you food. That's it. It doesn't happen. Don't do that. I promise I won't. The point being, the Great Depression wasn't that long ago.

Putting food in the table was something that people who were alive remember very well. And now, of course, the problem is until recently obesity. Well, okay, so this is where I was going to go next because I think there are some parallels when we're looking at the net worth of Elon Musk kidding a trillion dollars. And the vast concentration of wealth in the hands of tech barons right now is the stock market is soaring because 30% of the, I think it's 30% of the S&P is the MAG 7 at this point. So it is a really high concentration of wealth in a few hands, not to sound like Occupy Wall Street, Michael, but that has clear social consequences. because there are people who have politics of resentment. And frankly, we haven't seen wages for, like, your median workers' wages have stagnated. If you look at the bottom 90%, again, not to sound like Occupy Wall Street, but a lot of what we've seen in terms of an increase has been because if you're moving into the upper class, you are doing better and better. But the median worker and the 90% is stagnating. And so the social consequences of all of this, it wouldn't surprise me if it starts to look something more similar to what it looked like in the gilded age.

But I might be wrong about that. And you've studied this history very closely. So I'm curious for your take. I just think politically it's very hard to tell someone who knows they're doing an honest day's work for decades. And they're not getting anywhere that this is the best you can get. Like it's just that's a very, it's an impossible message. I think something that very clearly happened in 2016 was for the first time since like 1980. before, these so-called Reagan Democrats, blue-collar Democrats, who voted Republican for Reagan, felt seen by Trump. They felt like, okay, this guy at least understands my problems. He actually cares about where I'm coming. He's obviously not blue collar himself. But no one who's, Trump has that trashy, he doesn't have this fancy affect to him at all. It's much, he's much

clear as someone you want to have a beer with than someone who's like, you know, Lindsay Graham, who had nowhere near his money, but does not have this kind of, common man's touch. And I don't blame them from being frustrated. So the DSA is very much tapping into that, the sense of economic frustration.

This is why she stressed those kind of three Ps. And Bumdani is doing that because the point is, if I'm on the left and I kind of resent, perhaps fairly, Elon being a trillionaire

and my mortgage and my house is underwater, and why am I voting for the same Democratic politicians that have voted for for 30 years? And the Republicans aren't on the table for me psychologically. So yeah, I'm going to try the ones who are at least young and have energy and are promising something different.

The logic makes perfect sense in that regard. And I just want to make one more point. Actually, it's really a question for you because being from Wisconsin, Madison looms really large in Wisconsin politics because it's seen as a stand-in for saying someone's out of touch. Like, you're from Madison. You're out of touch. And Francesca Hong, on a cultural level, screamed Madison. Everyone knows they have a niece or a neighbor who went to Madison, came back talking like Francesca Hong, hosting menstruation dinner parties, which is a real thing she did and bragged about on the internet.

And it makes your eye roll. Oh, yeah, Michael Mouse. What does that mean? Like the meat's served very rare? She served Korean blood sausage. I'm sorry to inform you. How is that? Was that with menstruation?

Blood, I suppose. I don't know. I report. You decide. Okay. If it's a sausage, it's not more of the phallus than the uterus? You're absolutely correct. And I'm not going to second guess Francesco Hong's.

She's a chef, after all. We had to care about that. But anyway, the point is she... Yeah, well, she's cooked, am I right? Yay! Sewer socialist, am I right? More like toilet socialist. But seriously, she was coded so culturally left.

As far left as you could go on trans issues, on the border, on the police, on even Thanksgiving. And what's interesting is I think now you have cultural halves and cultural have-nots. And sometimes the cultural halves and the economic halves are the same. Sometimes the cultural and the economic have-nots are the same. But she's the mismatch where she comes across as a cultural have with the politics maybe of many cultural have-nots. And you can't get trust that way.

And it seems to me like a lot of the leaders of the social, movement in the gilded age were actually like poor people. But I could be wrong about that. Oh, no, absolutely. They were union. They were there absolutely. It wasn't at all. And this was on the big divides between the socialists and the progressives.

Woodrow Wilson was college president. I mean, this guy's as bougie as you get, very effete, extremely overeducated. And then if I'm someone who's never graduated college, like, yeah, maybe this guy kind of wants best for me in his policies. but we're not speaking the same language. We don't have the same experience. And I think, to your point is absolutely correct, a lot of these union workers,

these blue-collar people who might be democratic socialists in terms of their economics, this whole thing about we have to decolonize whiteness and white people are bad, a lot of those union guys are white men and with families, and that's not speaking their language at all. Even if they would agree with her after some time, it's not instinctively where their minds are whatsoever.

they're highly focused on economic issues. Yeah. I mean, my grandparents, my grandpa was IBW, always voted basically just them because that was what the union's interests were. And I think if he were 40 years old right now, he would have been like, even me, I've always voted them. I don't know if I could do it. I feel like that's actually how it would have gone down.

And she got beat pretty handily in most rural counties. So, Mous, thank you for that history lesson. I appreciated it. My pleasure. Well, let's take a quick break, and we'll be back with Democrats in Massachusetts. Everyone is talking about weight loss injections because, let's face it, we've all seen it. The results are so dramatic. We've even talked about it on this show from time to time. But those work by lowering blood sugar and reducing appetite.

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lean to your healthy diet and exercise plan. Visit take lean.com and enter emily for your discount. That's promo code Emily at take lean.com. Massachusetts Governor Mara Healy signed a very extreme piece of abortion legislation just yesterday. And I think actually we can take a look at this video. It may be jarring to some folks might come across as drawing to some folks because they're dressed in pink and they start applauding after this bill is signed. On the other side of the soundbite, I will explain exactly what the bill does. And just reading, they're smiling and clapping if you're listening to this. Reading from National Reviews recap, they say Massachusetts recently became the 11th state

in the nation to allow abortion at any point in a woman's pregnancy with Governor Mara Healy signing into law measure codifying full and complete access to abortion up until birth. The bill was touted by Healy and supporters as legislation strengthening abortion protections in Massachusetts. Healy went so far as to say this law continues our efforts to have the strongest abortion protections in the country because in Massachusetts, we believe health care decisions should made between women and their doctors. Yes, they certainly do. I went and read the bill, which is interesting when you look at it. We can put this text up on the screen because what it does

is take a law in Massachusetts that was already permissive of late-term abortion and make it even more permissive of late-term abortion. They already had the mental health exception, which it's a loophole, basically, that allows for late-term abortion in the case where a physician can say, carrying this baby to term would be a problem for the mental health of the mother. And there doesn't have to be any of the health problems most people hear when they think of late-term abortion. And it reminded me, actually, of that Atlantic profile of Walter Hearn. I'm going to read a little bit from Kathleen Parker's column on it. She wrote in the Washington Post, a doctor profiled in a 2023 Atlantic article Warren Hearn. I'm sorry, it performs abortions up to 32 weeks. And

sometimes later, Hearn estimated that about half of his later-term abortions are of healthy babies. He's 86, has been performing abortions in Boulder for more than 50 years, and is one of a handful of doctors willing to perform late-term abortions. He shows no reticence in saying he doesn't care about the fetus, only the living, breathing patient. And Michael Mouse, that's really what it comes down to. If you believe that the bodily autonomy of a woman always trumps the life that's growing inside of her, of course you're going to smile and clap and laugh when you sign this bill into law. I agree that the bodily autonomy of a woman is sacrosanct, but that's a different body. If you're standing in front of me or something like that or hugging me, that doesn't mean you get to kill me.

This is where I differ with conservatives because under anarchism, I have to be very careful with my words. if someone, including a mother, is engaged in what I regard as the murder of a baby, then anyone is free to take steps to make sure that vengeance has been inflicted on the perpetrators on the innocent child's behalf. So let's just leave it there. I think I can make the argument, and so I know you're pro-life, Emily, you can make the argument as well that there are certain very rare situations where someone's like eight months along where the baby cannot be saved and this woman has to be set into this most horrible decision anyone has to face and it's important that in those situations it can be done safely right but even if you make that argument you're not applauding you're staking there like kind of wringing your hands like this is so hard you know i have a friend who's a pediatric oncologist and he's a has to tell parents, you know, that your kids got a small window.

These horrible things happen all the time. And it's when if that's what they, this bill was about, the energy in that room would be like we're protecting the women in their most tragic vulnerable moments. It's not. It's a plause. And I don't understand as someone who broadly speaking regards themselves as pro choice, the idea that you're eight months along, which is we, I personally know, I bet you know personally as well.

friends of mine who've delivered before eight months and the kid's fine, that it's just like, well, and the other thing that's just insane to me is this like mostly peaceful. It's like, well, it's only 1%. I did the math. So 1% of abortions are third trimester, which is like 11,000, which means the number of people killed last year is like 12,000. So they're going to catch, they want to catch that number.

It's just absolutely, sorry, it's just absolutely crazy to me. And it is, there's something, I will just absolutely demonic about the celebratory nature instead of the like we're being forced to this point situation. Right. Yeah, that's well said because there's an essay that of all people Naomi Wolf wrote in the New Republic, I think it was in the 90s, where she grappled with this with the signs that the hardcore anti-abortion activists would bring to rallies of developing babies.

And she pointed out, you know, the feminist movement has to absolutely confront these images and admit that they're real. Otherwise, we're dishonest. And she didn't walk back her position, actually, which was interesting. She may have done that since because she's been on a little bit of an odyssey herself. But Christopher Hitchens, perhaps the most famous modern atheist thinker, said, as soon as you have something that is one alive and two human, then you have a... different question than autonomy, unless you want to decide that a woman's bodily autonomy, quote unquote autonomy, is always the most important question and that other life is always secondary to the first. I don't have anything really to add. This is such a black and white issue

for me, and I think for most people. And I think there's something very, I don't even know, it's hard for me to mentally, I don't know what it's like. pregnant. I'm never going to know what it's like to be pregnant, despite what you might hear on the internet. I cannot wrap my head around someone eight months along being like, me. And that whole mental health exception kind of thing, there's no woman on earth who is in her third trimester who doesn't have mental health issues. We all know. Right? It makes women crazy. Like that's, that's, you laugh, but it's, it's, I think people don't appreciate to what extent these things are being done in bad faith.

And to your point, it is a loophole, depression, anxiety. The stress on the body is going to, you're not going to be having a good time, seven, eight, eight, nine months along. You're, you're a mess. Your body is mutating. You're crying all the time. Your hormones are overplace. And I, I, I don't think all the women in that room applauding are playing 4D chess, right?

I think there's going along with the crowd. but this is some dark, dark stuff. And the next thing on the pike, which has already started, is kind of a medical murder, this assisted suicide stuff. So the pro-life people were banged to rights about sanctative life being a slippery slope. And we're seeing it playing out right now to my, and I'm sure you're a horror. Right. And that's actually what I was going to ask you back.

I saw you posting on X this particular point, which I think what, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but part of your argument is that this is rooted in something deep for the left. And I agree that a lot of the women clapping have been told their entire lives that really what they're allowing is for a woman to have a choice over a clump of cells, genuinely something that does not have a right to life. It's not alive because it hasn't taken a breath outside of the womb. And that's what science tells them, capital S, science. That's what they've been taught to believe. They haven't, you know, thought too deeply about it because that really is a line that you get from the political establishment.

But I think your point is a good one that this is about something deeper and it's interesting to see from a movement that talks about collectivism. Like Zoroamam Dani talks about the warmth of collectivism. This is radical individualism. Actually, Michael.

Is it? I don't know if I would consider... I would consider myself an individualist but it doesn't give me the right to kill kids, including especially my own. But they see it as the... I guess my argument is that they see it as the sovereignty of the individual against the state. That's how they see it.

They're not right about that. I don't think either of us think they're right about it. I think that's how they see it, even in the assisted dying cases. Okay. No, the assistive dying case, that's certainly the argument that they invoke. The problem is that they're often using the state to further their goals. And, you know, it's doctors who are, you know, helping and the government who's helping. In any case, they'll latch on to any straw that they can in order to get to the conclusion they want. want. You hear many people on the right increasingly regarding this as a death cult. I don't know that I'm 100% convinced that that's the case, but man, this is a sure good argument for that kind of

perspective. I also wanted to talk with you, speaking of the science, about new Anthony Fauci text that has been hot and controversial just in the last 24-48 hours. Now, Ron Johnson announced that Dr. Fauci, we have this graphic. He posted this on X. Dr. Fauci was concerned in January, January 2021 that the second dose of the COVID shot, quote, theoretically could be associated with miscarriage in the first trimester. And so immediately, this is, I mean, speaking of the, like, powerful experiences people have when they're pregnant, the choice that people faced over whether to vaccinate when they were pregnant during the pandemic was hell. The pressures that people faced about who would be allowed in the deliver room, what their husband could be.

do. And then honestly, just the question of whether this was right, whether it was more dangerous to have potentially get COVID or to have the vaccine, Fauci in the email says it theoretically could be associated. Oh, I'm sorry, he said, since many people have significant cytokinous storm and fever after the second dose, this theoretically could be associated with miscarriage in the first trimester. I saw Vene Prasad in the free press making the argument actually that we just have not done any good trials on pregnant women because if you self-select to vaccines, you are part of a group that's not a great sample because there are a lot of people in this country who don't have great pregnancy care and aren't doing great health care during their pregnancy.

Obviously, that's a problem in America, especially compared to other places in the world. So we still don't really have any great scientific trials to tell us what happened on this front. Ron Johnson went on the Charlie Kirk Show and had this to say, actually just hours ago. We just got his phone late last week. We're able to download that into searchable forms, and then my staff started looking at some key dates, and they pulled this needle out of the haystack, which I thought we better get into the public realm as soon as possible because it impacts public health, impacts informed consent. If I'm a woman who's about to get pregnant or pregnant, I'd want to know that Anthony Fauci apparently had knowledge.

I never knew that they had information that you had higher cytokine storms after. the second dose. Brand new information to me, of course, with fever, that could impact theoretically miscarriages in the first trimester. Now, this was, he's talking about this a little more than a month after the emergency use authorization, but an even more egregious example of the federal health officials knowing the danger of these shots and saying nothing about it was a month later, Peter Marks had an FDA division that approves vaccines and supposed to surveil for safety, was warned that his algorithm would hide safety signals. 26 days later, using a new algorithm,

he was shown dozens of safety signals, including sudden cardiac death, pulmonary infarction, which, by the way, Fauci suffered from himself in June of 2021. So people like Fauci, Peter Marks, Tom Shimikura, the very people who are supposed to be watching these things and warning doctors, practitioners, the public, if they were watching it, they sure weren't telling us. And Fauci did not express this particular reservation about the vaccine publicly at all.

And, you know, obviously laid the groundwork for some of these awful vaccine mandate questions that women had to face and their husbands had to face. So, Michael, it does seem pretty sinister. My levels of rage on this topic are so unhealthy that all I can. do is try to get my Soviet cold bloodedness to take over to keep from completely foaming at the mouth. And you laugh, but I know you're laughing sympathetically not, you know, at me. You were referring to your Soviet blood, so yes. Yeah, yeah. I'm just thinking about, whenever I tweet about this, I hear, I'm trying to calm myself down. I have so many fathers who would be like my mother had to die alone where I wasn't

allowed to have a funeral. I personally know a wedding that had to get canceled. Who cares? That's not a big one. You know what I mean? I know someone who got a shot and they were in a wheelchair within a week. And it's not that just they didn't say anything. We were all told explicitly every five minutes, this is as safe as drinking water. And in fact, if you don't take it, you're going to be having the miscarriage. There is no medicine on earth, including aspirin, including vitamin C, where no one is going to have an adverse reaction. But the lie was, nope, it's fine for everyone. What's fine for a lot of people was COVID, including children.

They couldn't get it. So I am gladdened, I guess, that this stuff is coming out now. But personally, in terms of my sense of right and wrong, it is far too little, far too late. And I like that the theme of this episode is anarchism because I know what the anarchist answer to this situation is. And again, it's something I can say out loud. And I'm getting, I'm trying to calm myself down. I'm thinking about all those, in North Korea, I'm going to bring it back.

Trust me, when the famine hit in the 90s, the people who trusted the government were the first to starve. Because they thought we were taking care of all our lives. We're just going to get through this period. It's the people who cheated and stole and traded with China or whatever who managed to scramble and get the food to survive the best. And I'm thinking about all those good, innocent women who want to do the right thing, who are told if you don't get this, it's going to be bad for you and your kid and who trusted. And I don't want to live in a low trust society like the Soviet Union was.

I think it's very healthy to live in a high trust society. I think it's a good thing to live in a neighborhood where if your door is unlocked or you leave the door, you leave the door open, your neighbor will close it for you. I'd be like, oh, I closed your door, and I made sure everything's okay. That is an ideal kind of situation. And they leveraged the American sense of decency and trust. And they brought in the Soviet sense of snitching on your neighbor. And the level of hatred and contempt I have for that period and for these people,

I cannot coherently express into words. So this is a really good point that they level. the trust of the American people because, believe it or not, institutional trust was slightly higher going into the pandemic. Everybody obviously believes that. And so the scraps of trust and institutions that or the, what remained of American trust and institutions was utterly exploited to that point by Fauci just completely, the way that he's talking publicly and privately, not just on this, but throughout his diaries. And the media, the people who are supposed to be as, as, as, as as skeptical of power as possible, we're buying everything Anthony Fauci had to say because they knew him from Northwest D.C. and they saw him at Chef Jeffs. He writes about getting applause from all of the Northwest D.C. liberals when he walked into Chef Jeffs to pick up his takeout, whatever. That really is, I feel like we're going to be living with that for very, very long time. I'm a little older than you

neither of us are teens anymore but what if you never had a prom? What if this was your high school experience? I don't know what that's like. You didn't know what that's like. It's not good. And especially young people, there's that window where you're not seeing faces.

This is horror movie Twilight Zone kind of stuff. So I am, again, I can't speak on this issue without getting into like, you know, the reason I'm in Austin is because of the nonsense that they pulled in New York And at a certain point, I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore.

I'm getting, I still haven't learned how to drive. I'm not, I can't handle this kind of, you know, oppressive system. And the thing I want to point out, and the first time I said this, I thought I was getting a pushback and I never have. So I'm glad I could say it again. There is a huge percentage of people on the left who have given the opportunity to bring that kind of country back, would do it in a heartbeat, would press that lever so fast their fingers would bleed. So be aware that this is where your neighbors are, unfortunately. Well, this is Hana Arndt, and is it on totalitarianism where she writes about how alienation is a, that is the ripest conditions is when societies are alienated and people are isolated from, I guess social trust is probably part of that recipe. Almost certainly.

And so, I mean, to bring it back to the conversation about democratic socialism that we were just having, people are really isolated and alienated. They were going into COVID. They are now. even more atomized and it's a very I guess feels like a very dangerous cultural moment. And I think it's going to get worse because we're at a point where your AI is going to know you better than you know yourself and is going to know how to manipulate. So Mark Zuckerberg's job and you can't blame for this is how do I keep people looking at Facebook as much as possible, right? It's going to be a lot easier for him to do his job if me and you ever watching this has an AI over their shoulder, looking at what I look at, looking at what I don't look at. The example I always use is, you know, I'm a serial company.

They make supermarkets. I put you, Emily, with glasses in the supermarket, and I watch where your eyes go. Do you pick up the blue box? Do you not pick up the red box? And I can figure out, you're not going to be able to articulate it. You and I don't really know why we're picking up this box or not, but the machine will be able to figure it out. When you have that personalized on an individual basis, and we talk a lot about silos

and tribes that conservatives talk to each other, the Democrats are on blue sky kind of thing, When it's your own silo and you've got your own little guardian, like this is something that's historically and humanly unprecedented. And I can see there being an upside to this because I think some people are deranged and do need a caretaker, but I can also see the downside of this as well. Terrifying. Well, something that contributed to social alienation perhaps was cancel culture, not perhaps it absolutely did. So let's talk about Roseanne, a friend of yours, right, Michael?

Yes, ma'am. All right. I have her signed picture hanging over my desk where she was dressed as Hitler. Where she belongs, as Hitler above your desk. She wouldn't sign it to Michael. It should have been you. Well, speaking of friends with Roseanne named Michael, Michael Fishman, child star from Roseanne had some comments about how the show ended up, the reboot ended up getting canceled in what I guess Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would describe

as woke one. Ha ha ha ha, very funny. I'm reading here from a People Magazine article. After the original series ran from 1988 to 1997 in 2018, an 11th season revival was announced. Bar was fired from the series shortly after it began airing after she likened former President Obama's advisor Valerie Jarrett to an ape in a since deleted tweet. She later claimed that she didn't know. Can I interrupt you? Can I interrupt you? Because there's a lie in there and I really want to point out how blatantly they lie because they're factual but not truthful. She said Valerie Jarrett is the Muslim Brotherhood plus planet of the apes because she looked like the girl in that picture.

She did not say Valerie Jarrett is an ape. And side note, Valor Jarrett and Emily and Michael are all apes. All human beings are apes. So the way they phrased it, it made it seem like she went up to a black lady and said, you're a monkey. And that's not at all what happened. But I really want to clarify this because they just lie. They're so disingenuous, so brazenly that you have to keep calling on their BS.

I'm sorry, interrupt. Well, no, because it's like sedimentary layers over time. It gets baked into the public understanding of the situation. And so people goes on to write that Roseanne said she didn't know Jared was black and that she was on Ambien while tweeting the statement. Amazing. So Michael Fishman is responding, I think this was on like an Instagram live. He was responding to somebody who said, you know,

Roseanne was a victim of cancel culture. And you can see the reboot got canceled because Roseanne made the usual joke a comedian makes, but America decided to backstab Roseanne. And Michael Fishman responded, the brilliant comedians help us laugh at the darkest, darkest topics. Sadly, in this case, there was no joke. And the show was rightfully canceled. It's the last time I'm really going to go into this. So, Michael, I wanted to get your reaction.

Actually, we have Fishman. We can just take a look at how he handled this S7. I get this. Every day. I get these kinds of ignorant. inaccurate comments daily. And people are using a political smoke screen to justify the indefensible. Yeah, indefensible.

That's how she described it herself. But those justifications, they're leading to real consequences, real crimes, situations like Trey Reed and Tasha Fortune, because dehumanizing people is never a joke. See, when we're on stage as comedians or on camera, We have the freedom to say whatever we want. But that doesn't mean there's no responsibility and no consequences. And the brilliant comedians help us laugh at the darkest topics. So.

Darkest, huh? Sadly in this case. Oh, Michael Malice. Why is he a lesbian in that? What is going on? He's giving care of Swisher. Let me tell you my Michael Fishman story, which I haven't told me. Please do.

Yeah, we can get out of the thought. I'd much rather hear his Michael. So the cast of Roseanne was based on her real family, right? And Michael Fishman was based on Roseanne's son, Jake Pentland, who was co-producer, co-host of her show and producer of her show, her podcast. So I've never told this story before. I DM Michael Fishman and said, I have a family who I'm friends with, who are basically just like the Connors, meaning Roseanne's family.

The son's birthday is coming up. Can you send me an autograph picture? I gave it to Jay. her son for his birthday and I made him take a video with me thanking Michael for the gift. I sent it to Michael. I didn't read it. Can I curse? Yeah, of course. I was too much of a bitch to read his response because he was salty. It was a DM and I saw like the first line I was scared. I'm going to admit it. Point being, fuck you, Michael Fishman. You threw your mother under the bus for the sake of money. Don't pretend it's anything.

otherwise, the idea that Roseanne is secretly racist or secretly anything is the funniest thing you could possibly say about Roseanne because that woman's mouth is so big, it's bigger the Grand Canyon. Has anyone in any situation been like, gee, I wonder what Roseanne Barr thinks about this? She's so demure and shy about her opinions. It's nonsensical. So he knows perfectly well. She wasn't some secret racist. And I would remind people, people might be too young to remember this, during the 90s,

Roseanne butchered the national anthem at a baseball game, then grabbed her crotch and spat in an imitational baseball player. The bit did not land to the point where the president himself was denouncing her, and they stood by her. When you had the reboot, and Roseanne on that show is a Trump supporter, and they're normalizing supporting Trump, they were looking for any excuse they had, they're thrown to the bus. And I would agree with him, if someone makes an offensive,

comment, there should be consequences, especially for your public figure, but the idea that necessarily meaning you're fired is insane. She asked to go on different ABC shows to explain her position. She was told no. And to me, there's something sick about stabbing your own mother in the back for money and you don't get to do that and then get on your high horse. And here's the other thing. He's also been very, very desperate for any kind of attention. A few years ago, he was tweeting at Joe Rogan. Keep my name out your mouth, let me get on your show so I can explain. I'm a Roseanne fan.

I don't know if you are. I'm sure a lot of people are of the show. Has there ever been a DJ storyline that anyone cared about? I don't care about DJ. And it's not surprising because Jake's a loser also. Hi, Jake. Well, it's one of the most interesting cancer culture stories because the ratings on this show were gangbusters.

The country was loving the reboot. And so ABC, obviously ABC Disney, maybe their argument internally was, hey, in the long run, we're so scared of these libs who are mad. A comedian said something maybe bad, even though they apologized for it. I think it's kind of ridiculous to believe that they believed their bottom line was going to be hurt by keeping Roseanne. No way. More than, exactly, more than taking her off of the reboot. They just called it the Connors and had it without her and continued to go on for, I think, couple of seasons, but it was nowhere near as successful after she left the show. And so it's a good

lesson that money was not the most important part of corporate cancel culture, even though there was such a thing as like elite corporate cancel culture where billionaires were weaponizing this, in some cases, to whitewash their own business practices and try to become more palatable to the left. Like that was a real thing. But at the end of the day, it was not all about money. Some of it was genuinely ideological. And who knows who was calling, rumor had it, the Obama's for calling them, asking for her head.

I don't, I don't remember at the time this huge lefty backlash. It was very largely an elite backlash against her. I don't think there was this huge kind of movement now, like there was against like, let's say, Tiger Banks, where people online are like, okay, this person is a horrible person needs to be done with. It was one throwaway

comment from someone who is known, for having a mouth way too big for her own good. And they very easily could have tried to kind of walk it back and have her to apologize with so many other situations. I mean, we're talking with people who make apologetics for literal rapists, including rapists of children. So the idea that, like, Valerie Jarrett is your sacred cow, is deranged. How is Roseanne doing, by the way? Oh, she's great. I mean, let me tell you, if your phone rings and it says Roseanne Barr, you know you're doing something right in the world.

It's like one of the greatest things that ever happened to me. It's just, and hearing that voice. What's even funny. I had her in my show a couple months ago. What? Yeah. Yeah. Well, she doesn't say that.

She'll have a slur. So I assure you. But I had her on my show and I would ask like, why do you have that actually goes, yeah, well, you know, Salt Lake City. They talk, blah, blah. I go, and she did a different voice. I go, but that's not your act. She goes, yeah, why do I talk like this? She didn't know where the voice comes from.

But her and Adam Carolla, I want to see the two of them in a room together. It's like chainsaws or pencil sharpeners or something. That would be beautiful. Now, someone you might not want to see in the same room with Adam Carolla and Roseanne Barr. Maybe you would is Rosie O'Donnell. Oh, I. She went on Amy Poller's podcast, very popular podcast, went on Amy Poller's podcast and had actually a very accurate take on her own fame.

It has something to do with Donald Trump. cyclism. And I feel like recently I'm re-famous. That's what I feel. I told my kids, well, kids, hold on, because mommy's re-famous. I don't know how it happened. I think it's Mengo Mussolini. I think it's him who did it. He didn't know. If he knew how much he was helping my career in my life, he would shut up about me because, you know, he's a horrible creature. Shocking self-awareness from Rosie O'Donald there, Michael Malice. I'm going to defend Rosie, and I'll defend her in terms of everyone watching. this can appreciate.

Okay? So during, I think, like, maybe it's 20 years ago. You know, she and him had a bit of a feud when she was co-hosting The View. And he went on this whole tear, he went to Access Hollywood, Entertainment Weekly, all these, all those extra, all those shows. Rosie's disgusting, as horrible. She doesn't the outside. Inside, she's even worse.

She's a loser. Her magazine, Rosie, failed. The views ratings go down very quickly because no one likes to watch her. Rosie, watch your mouth or I'll come for your girlfriend. Point being, everyone watching this. Incredible. If the person who bullied you in high school, if the co-worker you hated who put you down and made you feel terrible, became president, wouldn't you lose your mind to? Like, think of whoever it is in your life that you just can't, like, if you saw them ringing on the phone, they'd be opposite Roseanne, and you're like, oh, my God, how they get this number?

If they became the president, would you be like, oh, this is fine? Or would you be like, okay, I'm living in some kind of Kafka's nightmare. So I'll always give Rosie O'Donnell personally a pass for this. And there's a book that came out, I forget the title, which was an oral history of the view, and it interviewed everyone who worked on the show. And the guy who was co-creator at an executive producer of time in his name as well made the point. He goes, Rosie O'Donnell's skill is that she is severely mentally ill but can present as a normal person. I'm not joking.

I believe it. Her upbringing was extremely traumatic by all accounts. And if you look at photos of Rosie, don't take my word for it. Google her. she's physically incapable of smiling. All she could do is grimace and show her teeth, which I suspect is a result of years of antidepressants, and I will always give her a pass.

I'm not kidding at all. Well, I think your grace is well placed because not only did Trump become president, but he also was talking about her constantly on the trail. Like one of the most famous debate moments, it was with Begat. He was like, Rosie O'Donnell. Can you imagine

Can anyone watching this imagine watching presidential debate and the candidate mentions your name? That's how you know you're crazy when the television is talking to you directly. And it happened for her. And you're like Velma Flintstone. Like you're not a senator. Right. Right.

It's like what is happening? Yeah. But it is actually, I think, self-aware. It's a self-awareness that, for example, Alec Baldwin probably would never have when he was once again relevant because Saturday Night Live kept bringing him on to do what we now, I think, can collectively agree is one of the worst Trump impressions of all time that we were constantly told by the corporate

press is one of the best Trump impressions that's ever happened. He was never able to understand he was only relevant, again, vis-a-vis Trump. And then he tried to do that reality show with I think I'm hilarious and their children. But I guess it's a bit, I think your grace for Rosie O'Donnell also is well-placed because she's at least refreshingly, in this case, self-aware that it's not because she's so brilliant and funny that she's relevant once again in the year of our Lord 2026. Yeah, and I've always had a soft spot for her. She was the anti-war.

And there was this great moment from the view where she's talking to Barbara Walters and being like Barbara, you're like, you're not like a normal person. And she's like, you have Picasso's in your house. And Henry Kissinger for dinner, what are you talking about? Barbara's like losing her mind. And Rosie's like, I'm successful too. I'm not pretending I'm not. It's okay to say you're very rich.

That's Trump. Right, was losing her mind. So, again, of all the people in that space, she's the one I have the softest spot for. Well, Michael Malice is host of Your Welcome. He's author of The White Pill, A Tale of Good and Evil, probably my family's favorite recurring guests here on Afterparties. Oh, is that right? I think probably.

Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah, they love it. So thanks for going back in. I can actually say your mom, but it's true. In this case, sorry, Mom. Michael Malice, thank you so much. Always a pleasure, Emily. Well, living in a big city and honestly working as a journalist

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Zbiotics. Wedding season, Bacheloretts, rooftop parties, August doesn't slow down, and neither to you. Pre-alcohol keeps it that way. Zbiotics.com slash after-party, code after-party for 15% off. Head over there. There's a wild story in the New York Times in recent days that I had to talk about. So the headline here, we can put up the screen, is how Harry Potter fans protected Dobby's grave from a power cable. Now, if I were an editor at the New York Times, I would have put Dobby's grave in quotation marks because Dobby, of course, doesn't have a grave. Dobby is not real. Therefore, Dobby's grave is also not real. But reading from the piece, there were a couple of key parts. Fans of the 2010 movie assembled a real memorial, the Times

writes to the imaginary elf on the freshwater west beach in Pembrokeshire, Wales, where the scene was filmed. Here lies Dobby, a free elf, says a sign atop a pile of stones, a memorial that became a tourist destination for the series Many Admirers. But in 2019, the site was threatened by plans to run a large electrical cable under the beach, part of a multi-million dollar effort to transport electricity between Ireland and Britain. That year, Simon Ludlam, the project manager for the electricity cable known as Greenlink, appearance. on BBC Wales to explain the project standing on the beach where Dobby was buried. Once again, Dobby was not buried. Dobby is not real. Dobby was buried in the film, I suppose. But to see that

in New York Times copy is rather remarkable. Another key part of this article that I wanted to read from is this. It wasn't the first time that the pile of stones and pebbles, and just to be clear, that's what Dobby's grave is. It's a pile of stones and pebbles and freaking socks. The Times goes on. It wasn't the first time that the pile of stones and pebbles, many with messages to Dobby, had been under threat. In 2022, environmental officials became concerned that the site's popularity with tourists was having a negative effect on the beach. A Welsh conservation charity ultimately said the memorial could remain, but asked visitors to stop leaving offerings, such as socks, a symbol of Dobby's friendship with Harry, after hundreds of phone calls from fans, including some children, the plans changed. The cable was rerouted to avoid Dobby's grave.

Dobby's grave, to be clear, while also carefully avoiding archaeological remains from the Bronze Age found near the site, Mr. Ludlam said. Okay, so apparently we're much more concerned about Dobby's fake grave than the archaeological remains from the Bronze Age, but maybe the Dobby fans, actually the silver lining glass have full take here, is that they urged a caution, that saved archaeological remains from the Bronze Age?

Did it take a pile of socks to Dobby to get the government to avoid the Bronze Age archaeological remains? I don't know. So many unanswered questions about this story, but it plays right into the Disney Potter adult, the Disney adult, Harry Potter adult, narrative, obviously, although the New York Times says some of the calls that Ludlam was getting,

apparently were from children, But Ludlam reported just being swamped with calls and messages from Harry Potter fans. And presumably many of them actually are adults. So that gets into the question of whether or not we have a real problem with Disney adults and Harry Potter adults who cling to these beautiful. And I think the story of Dobby is beautiful, by the way. I can't believe I just said that publicly. But I will proudly say I think the story of Dobby is beautiful. It was a huge Harry Potter lover as a kid.

But I don't begrudge people who into adulthood cling to some of these beautiful stories. I still think little women is probably one of the best works of American literature and can sit down and read it as an adult. You know, it's clearly not the target audience. But with some of these fantasy stories, Disney stories included, they are beautiful stories. They are timeless stories. But to watch people into their adulthood live in them so consistently and with such a powerful, emotional, connection. Sometimes with hardcore fans, which to be clear is a vast minority of Harry Potter fans, even of adult Harry Potter fans, but to, you know, even on a daily basis for this minority,

be interacting with the fantasy world and to be doing it in ways that, you know, whether it's it's VR or through different internet forums, like bring it to life as best as it possibly can be, it goes beyond what's healthy. there's a subculture that goes beyond what's healthy. I imagine much of this was driven by members of the subculture who are not healthy and have such a deep attachment to a pile of socks and stones that represent a story, a fictional story, not a real grave. I actually think it speaks a little bit to fear of death, since we're talking about a grave.

It's this weird projection of how uncomfortable people are with aging. Millennials who are especially attached to Harry Potter. Everyone's attached to Harry Potter. But if you were a kid growing up as the books came out and you were waiting in line at Barnes & Noble or waiting for the movies to come out in line in November outside the theater in Wisconsin, which was freezing, that is not a specific anecdote. I'm not speaking at all from personal experience, but it does mean a lot. And I get that.

I totally understand that. I hear you. But the subculture does, I think, speak to people clinging to their youth because they're afraid of aging. I think some of this cope actually from women, particularly you see it expressed in feminist objections to marriage. Sometimes when feminists get married and have children, they will admit that it was cope. But you see this in the cope. It shows up that they were afraid. They were afraid.

Like, this is huge with Gen Z, women in Gen Z. Like, they were afraid of being moms, of having children. And I think afraid of marriage, afraid of what that might mean for their future, what sort of permanence that, what sort of permanent. that what sort of permanent structure that adds to the years ahead of them. And people are really afraid about that. And so I think some people retreat into fantasy subcultures because of it. And those fantasy subcultures become so emotional because, in a sense, they are a cope in and of themselves for the escape. There was something kind of poignant about this story, literally being about a fictional

grave that people were so attached to. They forced the government to reroute an electrical cable with great importance. It's not something random, but this is a pretty important, particularly important cable. And they were so passionate about it that they called over and over again, sent messages and go to this beach. That's a, that to me, I think, reflects an unhealthy attachment. And And I think that unhealthy attachment is in some ways a cope for fear of aging, aging, and then, of course, for people who missed out on startup marriages, not merger marriages, and having kids at a young age, and then being able to have as many kids as maybe they didn't realize they wanted to, or maybe they did realize they wanted to. Well, you end up with more time on your hands, unfortunately. more time to mourn Dobby with dirty socks on a Welsh beach. That's going to do it for us on tonight's edition of After Party.

Thanks so much for tuning in. As always, if you want to submit a question for our Friday episode of the show called Happy Hour, email me at Emily at double-maycaremedia.com and make sure you subscribe to the podcast feed to hear the answer to your question. I get through just about every question, although they're stacking up, let me tell you, but I get through just about every question and record Thursday afternoon. So you want to get it in for this week's show ahead of that. Otherwise, we will, if you're not subscribing the podcast feed,

you got to subscribe on the podcast feed to hear that extra episode every single week. But thank you. Subscribe on YouTube if you haven't yet. Like, comment. That's all very helpful. We'll see you back here with more after party soon.