After Party with Emily Jashinsky - The Odyssey Problem, Don Lemon for President?!, Canada's Crackdown, w/ John Daniel Davidson, & Shane Gillis Makes History

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Emily Jashinsky is joined by John Daniel Davidson, senior editor at “The Federalist,” to discuss Christopher Nolan's blockbuster adaptation of “The Odyssey” and whether the film revives, or fundamentally reshapes, the Western literary canon. They also react to Don Lemon comparing the MAGA movement to the Nazi Party before floating a possible presidential run of his own, and the left's latest attempts to embrace a more "masculine" image. Later, they break down why Texas Democrats continue to struggle statewide after Senate candidate James Talarico faced frustrated Black voters at a town hall. The conversation then turns to Canada's push to criminalize residential school “denialism" following the collapse of the mass graves narrative, before wrapping up with Shane Gillis' record-breaking comeback and what his success says about the future of cancel culture, and more…   Lean: Discover why LEAN is becoming the choice for real weight‑loss results—shop now at https://TAKELEAN.com use code EMILY.   Cowboy Colostrum: Get 25% Off Cowboy Colostrum with code AFTERPARTY at https://www.cowboycolostrum.com/afterparty   Cozy Earth: Visit https://www.CozyEarth.com & Use code EMILY for up to 20% off Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome back to After Party, everyone. Thank you so much for being here. I'm looking forward to tonight's episode and have been looking forward to tonight's episode because my friend John Daniel Davidson is back on the show. And the big reason I wanted to have John on is that he wrote a piece, like I think it was June, looking back on the mass graves hoax that rocked Canada.

And there's new, there's actually new news. part in the redundancy on this front though. Because now speech is coming into question in Canada. So it's perfect timing, even though we wanted to have John, or we reached out to get John back after he wrote that piece in June and this is the timing that worked. You gotta stay tuned to hear the latest suggestion out of Canada for what could come now in the future of the mass graves hoax,

which has been recognized by one or two media outlets for the hoax that it was, but widely just ignored by the media that covered it so closely and incorrectly for a long time. So we're going to get into all of that with John Daniel Davidson, senior editor of the Federalist. We're also going to talk to John about The Odyssey. He has a piece about The Odyssey as well. I'm not normally a go-to-the-theter's first weekend type of person, but I did go see The Odyssey this weekend. So I have thoughts, and I have thoughts on everybody else's thoughts basically, like in the entire, if you're on social media, the entire conservative sphere right now is like fiercely debating whether or not the Odyssey, Christopher Nolan's Odyssey

was woke or not. So we're going to break that down with John. And we'll also be talking about Don Lemon. I was going to say melting down. He's not melting down. He's thriving. He's living his best life. He is, quote, serious about running for president. And also believes that MAGA is the closest modern version to the Nazi movement. This is another opinion Don Lemon shared on a podcast recently, setting himself very nicely for a run in, I would assume, a Democratic presidential primary, speaking of which, James Tallerico has a new ad that is raising questions with me about what kind of truck he drives, but also he got shouted down at an event over the weekend. You're going to want to see this video, because then it'll lead us into our next segment well, which is going to discuss

how the numbers this time around for Democrats, the rest of the media is starting to pay attention to a trend. We talked about on after-party starting in like, I don't know, January or February, but how the generic congressional ballot Dems are ahead, but also lagging from where they were in other really big blue wave type elections. Finally, Shane Gillis broke a major, major record over the weekend. So we're going to tell you all of. about that. Please do subscribe if you haven't yet. It's the most helpful thing you can do for the show to subscribe on YouTube is a big deal. So if you like or you comment, that is very useful on our end. And we really appreciate it. Also, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. It's a three-day-a-week

show. If you listen to podcasts, we do an audio-only episode every Friday where I answer all of the questions you send in to Emily at double-maycaremedia.com. And we just run through them every Friday on the special edition of the show for podcast. Listeners is totally free. You just have to go to Apple or Spotify and tune in there. All right, on that note, we've teed it all up. We're going to go to a quick break and be back with the one and only John Daniel Davidson. Everybody is talking about weight loss injections because, let's face it, the results

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The doctors at Brickhouse Nutrition created lean for frustrated dieters with 10 or more pounds to lose. So let's get you started with 20% off and free rush shipping so you can add lean to your healthy diet and exercise plan. Visit takeleen.com and enter Emily for your discount. That's promo code Emily at takelein.com. All right, everyone, we are back with John Daniel Davidson. He's a senior editor at the Federalist and he's the author of the great book, Pagan America. John, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me, Emily.

Good to see you. Likewise. You're zooming in from a remote high. Idaho in the Alaskan wilderness, also known as your abode. That's right. That's right. We won't get more specific than that. No, we would.

Listen, it's not good for any of us to get more specific. That's right. But, John, we're going to have you talk about James Talaico later in the show. And you sort of fled Texas. So it's a relevant point. I was in Texas for a long time and I have thoughts on Tala Rico. Yes, a relevant point. But you also have thoughts on The Odyssey, which smashed records over the weekend.

We can put this up according to ABC. the Christopher Nolan Odyssey, quote, launched with an estimated $124.5 million in domestic ticket sales and another $139.6 million from overseas, notching an even better debut than Oppenheimer and marking the filmmaker's best opening since 2012's The Dark Night Rises, which of course was a Batman film.

Now, on top of that, I did also see another headline that IMAX stock is up today because so many people, I think it set records at IMAX theaters as well, John, you wrote, we are living through an era of cultural destruction amidst all of the celebration of the Odyssey. John decided to write, we are living through an era of cultural destruction. But you say, quote, the larger problem, first you kind of summarized the debate, but you say the larger problem is Nolan's reinterpretation of a major, of major themes in the Odyssey, which doesn't just change the visual presentation of the material, but it's meaning. What it amounts to isn't just artistic license, but deliberate, deliberate decency.

construction. Let's go, John. Make your case. Okay. Now, I have some caveats first. When I wrote that, I hadn't seen The Odyssey. And I still haven't seen The Odyssey. Like you, I'm not a go-to-theatres kind of person. I think the last movie I saw in the theater where it was Kevin Costner's Horizon, part one. I thought that was awesome. I was super excited for it and it did not disappoint. So, go see it if you have it. It's not what I expected you to say, but it's actually the perfect So, okay, that said, I haven't seen Christopher Nolan's Odyssey, but I did minor in ancient Greek at Hillsdale College. And, well, no, it's relevant. I had to recite the first 11 lines of the Odyssey in Greek dactylic hexameter for my Homeric Greek final when I was in college.

And I still know them. I'm not going to do them right now. Huh? No, not in a toga. That was, you got extra points for that, but I'd refuse to do. do that. No, obviously I've read the Odyssey. I've read the Odyssey in Greek. I read it in English, and I'm an educated person. So any educated person in the West can weigh in on Christopher Nolan's Odyssey, especially, you know, if you kind of have been paying attention to the discourse around

the film. There's an entire discourse around the film now. It's a cultural kind of event. And so I wrote what I wrote to say that, you know, it's not like I'm, it's not like I'm breaking the internet by saying that noting that Christopher Nolan changed the presentation. He changed things in the story in a way that changed its meaning. And there's been a lot of people talking about, so this is sort of a almost like Christianizing of or the imposition of or putting a Christian moral gloss on this ancient Greek myth. And, The problem with that is that it sort of destroys the Odyssey as the Odyssey. And it turns it into something else like, I don't know, this theme in Christopher Nolan's work of tortured heroes with post-traumatic stress disorder like Batman or Oppenheimer or Odysseus in this case.

And that's, you know, that's, you know, setting aside kind of the woke casting stuff and the questionable modernization. this modernizes the story in a way that, as I say, I think deconstructs it. And I say that because it renders the story incoherent. You can't really keep the story of the Odyssey by trying to put a, you know, superimposed Christian morality over it to say that Odysseus felt guilty. Odysseus didn't feel guilty about the Trojan horse or about sacking Troy. That kind of ruins the story. Well, John, can we pause there?

though quickly because you write about this in Pagan America, as we've talked about before. Some folks might be listening to this and say, what do you mean that's Christian, the guilt that is being glossed onto the Odysseus character in Nolan's rendering? Why are you saying that's a Christian gloss particularly? Right. Because Christians, specifically the Catholic Church in the medieval period developed as a response to the pagan theory of, war, what we call just war theory now, which everybody was talking a lot about earlier this summer during the Iran War and the spring, right? Just war theory was the discourse and not the Odyssey. But the idea that there is a just and an unjust way to wage war, that coercive force, there's a difference between coercive force and violence. Violence is unjust. Coercive force under certain

circumstances is just and is obligatory for certain leaders. These are all ideas that came out of Catholic Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire. And they do not map well, and I would argue they do not map at all onto pagan Greek myth, where the entire moral framework was completely different. And the idea that, you know, for example, that every person has inherent dignity or that people are made in the image of God and that you distinguish between combatants and non-combatants in warfare. Those are all Christian ideas. They were not around at the time of Homer or the time of the Greek mythology that he

kind of set down the story of Odysseus. And so you see that reflected in Odysseus' character. He is proud of having sacked Troy. There's a reason, I think, and I won't go on and on about this. Other people have pointed this out. I think the reason that Christopher Nolan left out the nobody exchange with the Cyclops, you know, the Cyclops asks, you know, who should he say as, has, you know, has done this or has given him this wine or whatever. And he says nobody, Odysseus says nobody, as though that's his name.

But as he's leaving, and after they've blinded the Cyclops, Odysseus proclaims his name. And he says that his eye, you know, Odysseus, king of Ethica, Sacker of Troy, who have done this to you. And he's bragging about what he's done. He can't help himself, which is a major plot point because then the Cyclops cries out to Poseidon to curse Odysseus of Ithaca. And that's when all the troubles come for sort of disaster after disaster before Odysseus and his crew. Nolan leaves all of that out because it doesn't fit with his sort of Christian gloss on the morality of the Odyssey that he's trying to do. he can't have his Matt Damon Odysseus character be proud of what he's done at Troy and boast of it. And so there's all these key changes.

That's just one key change. But there's other key changes that basically make it a completely different story in my view. And the effect of it is cultural deconstruction or cultural destruction. Well, we had Victor Davis Hanson here before the film came out, speaking of Hillsell, by the way. Hillsell's wonderful. Oh, great. And you're going to say, and Victor Davis Hanson here before. He's a loser.

Disagreed with you. No, no, no. I have to say, I don't know. That would be fun, though. That would be fun. What I was going to say is he pointed out, what a lot of people pointed out when Nolan's Odyssey was announced, that Nolan drew inspiration directly from Emily Wilson.

He said that he drew inspiration directly from the Emily Wilson translation, which was already controversial in its own right. So that's a choice off the bat. Now, Wilson spoke to ABC News about the film. now that it's out and said ABC News reported, she questioned a range of omissions and other choices from the absence on screen of the gods Zeus and Poseidon, Athena is played by Zendaya,

to the incoherent messaging that condemns both war and physical cowardice. She found Penelope's role, that's Anne Hathaway, so thinned out that it endangered any possibility of believing in this marriage. Wilson also thought that parts of the movie, notably the scene with Odysseus's dog Argos, quote,

catered towards modern sentimentality. Everybody's a sucker for a dog. John Daniel Davidson. What say you? Yeah, I mean, so even Emily Wilson was scandalized by Nolan's modernizing gloss on this myth, which I think, you know, not having seen the film, it seems like it would sap a lot of the pathos and a lot of the coherence just to the story and make it so that you. You do have to omit major characters, entire sequences.

The motivations for the characters stop making sense. And so that's why at the end, you know, Odysseus and Penelope just leave Ithaca. You know, I think one reviewer said that it's the ultimate boomer ending. They just sail off, you know, and leave the mess to Telemachus to clean up. And they, you know, they're done with it, right? They're so over it. I think it's a testament to the fact that, that, you know, even people who may have a modernized tendency, Emily Wilson's translation is terrible. I'm a fagulls man myself. I know, you know,

everybody's sorted themselves into camps now with translations. Why is the Wilson translation terrible? Just teeing you up here, John, for some fun. Because it's too, it's colloquial in a way that changes the meaning as well. It maybe it's a little bit more subtle in how it changes the meeting than Nolan's, modern kind of interpretation. But it's, you know, even the opening saying, you know, saying to me, oh, muse of a complicated man. Well, that's not what the, you know, as somebody who's read the Greek, that's not what it says.

And it's the kind of approach to translation that takes too many literary liberties and, you know, for the sake of making something palatable to an audience. So I think Emily Wilson's critique is kind of ironic because that's exactly, I think, what Nolan has done here. He's tried to make this story palatable to a mass theater-going audience, which I get it. He's a blockbuster filmmaker. That's his job. But I think you could argue that if that's what it takes to make an adaptation of a story like this, then you shouldn't make an adaptation of a story like this.

Right. Like, what's the point? So on the Emily Wilson note, that is, just as you were saying that, I was thinking, Tell us more about the opening line, if you could, John. Nolan cited that as one of the reasons he liked the Wilson's translation particularly. And it was a great review in Compact of The Odyssey. And the compact review pointed out the similarities between Nolan's, particularly Nolan's Oppenheimer and Nolan's Odysseus, that there's an intentional effort to almost do a kind of youngian. analysis of the characters in a very modern Western way.

Am I in the right direction on that? Yeah, I mean, and maybe it works for Oppenheimer because he was a modern guy and, you know, inhabited a world that's very familiar to us. That said, I did watch most of Oppenheimer, but I didn't finish it because I got bored, okay? It was boring. No, it wasn't a Kevin Costner film.

No, that's not boring. Are you kidding? Have you seen Horizon? No, no. Well, part one, not part two. Well, no, they haven't released the other parts because nobody would go see it. But, you know, big mistake.

Very, very engaging Western film. Yeah, that's, I think it's, there's a kind of stock character that Christopher Nolan has produced time and time again. And Oppenheimer is the most recent because it's, you know, top of mind for everybody it just came out. But it's this kind of character who is a, who is a tortured soul, who is complicated. But that is not, that doesn't work for Odysseus wasn't complicated in that way.

He was like clever. He was good at lying. He was, he was delighted the gods. The gods were intrigued by Odysseus. They were entertained by him. He exhibited a kind of godlike ability in his interest. and his ways with, you know, strategy and his ways of manipulating people, that's the sense in which, if we're going to say Odysseus was complicated, he was complicated in that way, not in this sort of PTSD,

you know, 21st century kind of beta way of being complicated. That doesn't work. And I think that it renders the story of something other than The Odyssey, right? Well, John, having actually seen the film, which, I mean, listen, I'm not an Odyssey nerd, so I'm not going to do justice to the comparison between the text and the film. I have an interesting perspective, or I have an interesting question. My perspective is always interesting, but let's just go with the question for now. On the cost-benefit analysis, which you brought up yourself of doing the film, like the cost of insulting the poem in that way or degrading the poem in that way or even maybe perverting the poem in that way versus the benefit of bringing us to a place of like kind of shared

cultural literacy in the Western tradition. I think this is genuinely kind of a complicated trade-off type question because I bet if you asked a bunch of high school graduates in like the 1950s to go watch a film adaptation of the Odyssey, they would be able to fluently kind of explain discrepancies or what they thought of the film versus the poem. And it would probably just be a shared language than people from different parts of the West would be able to speak. And we don't really have that anymore. So here you have Christopher Nolan smashing records with at least a film that strings

together basic plot points. People know names. People know places. It sounds dumb and simplistic. But I was thinking about that this weekend. Yeah, sort of like so the unintended positive result of it is that more people know about the Odyssey and maybe more people will read the book. But the problem is when the way that they know about it is through the corruption of the thing. This is something I talk about in that piece, which is not just about the Odyssey.

It's also about Netflix's Little House and the Prairie adaptation. Yeah, tell us more about this. Which is also an act of cultural destruction. It's not, you know, the impulse, I think, among these, you know, essentially revolutionaries isn't just to censor or to ban or to ignore. Eventually, it is to co-opt, to transform, to corrupt, and claim for their side these cultural stories, myths, monuments, works of art. And I think that's what we see.

And so, yes, it's great that, you know, I think part of the reason a lot of people are going to see the Odyssey is just because it's the first, like, really big kind of like epic film that has been released in theaters in a while that I can think of, aside from Kevin Tassner's Horizon. Right, that aside. But that's the problem. The problem is taking it and corrupting it.

you know, Amazon has done the same thing with rings of power. Yeah, maybe more people know about... Don't get John started. Maybe more people know about the Silmarillion now, but how many of them are going to go through and read all of the family trees and the genealogies and the pronunciation guides, okay? So true. Instead, they're just going to watch this stupid show on Amazon that is a corruption and a mangling of the original source material, which is a beautiful work of art and a great piece of literature and very important for our civilization.

And that is the real problem with this. One thing after another, they go through and destroy so that future generations have to kind of sift through the rubble and reconstitute and reverse engineer the thing that was lost. And that's the problem I have with him. Now, you referenced the kind of different camps that people are sorting themselves into. Off the top of my head, I think Ben Shapiro, Spencer Claven, our friend here on the show.

And I think I also saw Eric Erickson. There's a handful of people on the right who are saying that the film isn't perfect, but it's good. It's a relatively faithful adaptation with some minor annoyances, maybe via the casting decisions. There's also people who we were talking about earlier who I wouldn't necessarily. say they're all on the right, but people who are kind of the pro-odicy, but don't see it as a faithful adaptation. The compact review that we mentioned earlier, I've seen others, but Eric Erickson said this. The trans actress that's referring to Elliot Page, formerly known as Ellen Page, plays the role of the deceiver, whose lie convinces the Trojans to open their gates to their

civilizations, destruction, make of that what you will trying to, you know, In a way, I mean, there's a pretty obvious rebuttal to that, but in a way to defend Nolan by saying this was some sort of sneaky injection of anti-wokenness into the Odyssey. I've seen similar debates being had. I know there was a review in The Daily Wire by our friend Rich Cromwell talking about how the calypso treatment, the Charlize, their own calypso, actually was faithful to the to the to the poem because, you know, it's, I should actually just pull up the meme. There's a great meme going around.

But anyway, John, all this is to say that there was sort of sneaky anti-cultural destruction that was like Trojan horse into the Odyssey. So that's what Jonathan Pajot has said as well. He had a whole review of it. He has a podcast called The Symbolic World. And this is sort of his, you know, his beat. and he thought the whole film was a Trojan horse. I've seen similar comments about the casting choices for Helen of Troy,

using the same actress for Helen of Troy as for Clitemnestra, and then contrasting that with Penelope and the two sides of the feminine. And I think that's giving Christopher Nolan too much credit. He's obviously a smart guy. He's obviously thought deeply about what, you know, filmmaking. But, you know, the things he has said about the film, you know, he, I, you kind of have to take him at his word. He has said what he thinks the film is about and what the themes are in the film and his approach

to it and, you know, why he chose to use a rapper, you know, at the beginning and why he used Emily Wilson's translation and why he thinks that you can kind of project the golden rule back onto, you know, the world of Odysseus or the world of Homer. And so I think that people are reading things into this that I think Christopher Nolan would have maybe left a few more breadcrumbs in his own comments, which have been very frank, and he's given all sorts of interviews. I think it may be just too clever by half. those things also are not as important as changing the basic themes and message of the Odyssey,

which even if he was trying to see, you know, put some little anti-woke hints in there, it doesn't cover for what he did to the story, which was completely transform it and turn it into something else. Well, the reading of Calypso that I was referencing, it was a great meme going around that, like if you think deeper and deeper. It was actually a critique of therapy culture from Theron's Calypso, which I agree is just, I mean, there's a level of galaxy brain happening with that interpretation. But John Daniel Davidson, my take on this was it's a fun movie, like it's a good movie. I know it's not supposed to be like super fun, but it's a fun thing to go watch in the theater in the summer. So I get why it's smashing records. Like it's literally epic the way that it's told. There's some great acting. There's

some super uneven acting and super uneven, even writing. But I mean, at least Elliot Page didn't play Odysseus. Is that maybe the silver lining here? Maybe so, maybe so. You know, there's, you know, if you really want, though, a great epic film that has great sequences that are realistically rendered. Stop it.

Horizon with Kevin Posner is your film. Oh, John. There's a whole scene where like these Indians just slaughter some settlers, like an adult, like they just depict the Indians as they were, which is more than I can say for Christopher Nolan's Odysseus, who doesn't even kill all of Penelope's maids who slept with the suitors at the end, like they do in the poem. Not enough slaughter.

Not enough. John Daniel Davidson on the Christopher Nolan Odyssey. All right, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back with more on Don Lemon, James Talarico, and the mass deaths hoax in Canada, so stick around. All right, well, summer is here. So if you want to actually feel confident, feel less bloated, feel more energized the summer,

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We're back with John Daniel Davidson. He is senior editor over at the Federalist, my long-time colleague there, and he's the author of a great book called Pagan America, which you should make sure to pick up. Let's now talk about Don Lemon, an Odysseus for our time of sorts, John. He was on a podcast called Can't Be Censored because he can't be censored. That's the kind of guy Don Lemon is. And he said a couple of things worth mentioning.

And we're going to play these clips so folks get the full Lemon experience. I wouldn't want to cut it short, but here's his, this is sort of his scholarly analysis of the historical parallels between the MAGA movement and the Nazi party. Let's roll S-1. MAGA is the closest thing to the modern version of the Nazi party. This is America's version. It's the closest thing without the Holocaust and all that stuff. That sort of mindset. That's what MAGA is because most intelligent people or logical people, when they get new information,

And if that information is negative or not factual, then they change their minds with, oh, well, I wish I had known better. And now that I have this information, then I can readjust. No matter what you, the, no matter how many facts and how much information you give them, you give them about this presidency, about the policies,

they don't change their minds. Because they're really not voting for the price of eggs. They're voting for white supremacy. for white supremacy a little gift there at the end a gem tucked into the end the last part of the answer now i wonder if you would apply that same logic about how people are so entrenched they are no longer responsive to facts to for example the radical transgender movement which of course remains unresponsive to facts but john if you were inspired by that kind of deep historical well of knowledge from Don Lemon, who's been doing some reading as he's now in his podcasting era.

Good news. He's pretty serious about running for president of the United States. This is us, too. But people keep asking me if I'm running for president. And I don't know, I might. I'm serious. I don't know. I might because people keep asking me to do it or if I'm going to do it. And I look around, you know, and I see the folks who are, you know, possibly in the running. And some of them are impressive, many of them, most of them are not. And it seems in this day and age, you don't have to have a ton of political experience because our current president has none, had none. That's very obvious. I actually think I would be a really good president of the United States. Okay, like you're being serious. No, I'm being totally serious. So what would it take?

Yeah. For the people to want me, what it would take is if I ran a political campaign, a presidential campaign, I would like to run it. I don't know if this is realistic or not, without having to beg for money. I would like it to be a voter, um, citizen driven campaign for as much as it can be. Maybe at some point I might have to take a donation. I would rather not do that, but I would rather the people of the United States to say, that's the guy that we want. I'm going to give him $5 or $10 or something that doesn't break the bank. So for the listening audience, he is, uh, almost certainly in the Hampton sitting poolside in his summer linens wearing like $1,000 loafers as he gives this answer about MAGA voters being all for white supremacy and basically neo-Nazis, John.

So I don't even have anything else to say. I just want to ask for your reaction. Look, a lot of people have been asking me if I'm going to be running for president, too. And I don't know. Are you being serious? I think I would be a really good president. And I'm not going to ask for money or anything. But, you know, look, if Trump could be president, you know, maybe I could be president too.

No, it's just I don't even know why. like who's Don Lemon's audience? Like, you know, like... Lemonheads. Lemon Nation. He was, you know, he was on CNN for a long time. We used to joke at the Federalist, this is years ago, that he sort of seemed like he didn't age, you know, but he was much older than he looked.

I remember we used to sort of celebrate Don Lemon's birthday or we would like post about it when it was his birthday. But it was kind of like he was a joke when he was on CNN with almost no audience. you know, with very bad numbers on CNN. And then his own hubris and sort of megalomania got him fired from CNN. And now he's back and he's running for president and he's asking for your vote. But not your money.

He just wants to become president through general acclaim, I guess. He's not going to run a campaign. It's weird to me that in the same podcast where you basically call half the electorate, of the country Nazis, that you would then say, I'm going to run for president, and I really want to be president that kind of pulls everybody together. And I think that's a little bit of an insight. You know, it's easy to make fun of Don Lemon,

but in all seriousness, it's a little bit of an insight into kind of the left-wing Democrat mindset where they think it's not even worth, the people who vote for Trump or who like J.D. Vance or who still identify as MAGA, it's not even worth reaching out to them. we need to write those people off, win however we can, and then just crush them, just dominate them, rule those people. They're not our fellow citizens, and we don't even want them to be part of the, we don't want their votes.

And the democratic establishment has all but essentially come to this conclusion institutionally. We are not going to try for votes of people in the middle or people on the right. That's it. We're going to go, we're going to, our winning coalition is going to be. illegal immigrants, white women with college degrees, and then we're going to like pad it with some, like, I guess some Chinese, you know, some Chinese absentee ballots thrown in as well. Oh, you're talking about Trump's press conference last week. Yeah, yeah, some Chinese, you know, we're going to get the votes from China.

TPD on whether they would ever be capable of pulling that off. It took me a second to be like, what the hell is John talking about? Yeah, the Chinese votes, man. I'm saying they're not interested in majority coalition. They're interested in mobilizing certain parts of the left-wing base and then rigging the elections as much as they can. And that's their strategy, which is a departure from, even from like the Obama Democratic Party.

The Zuckerberg strategy, circa 2020, where you pour a ton of money into ballot harvesting. For example, Molly Hemelway's documented that in rigged, as you just referenced or alluded to. And you can just use all of your money to, for example, remake the cultural touchstones of the people you're looking down. And this is going to sound like I'm making fun of you, but I'm not.

You were talking earlier in the show about the Bezos Amazon Lord of the Rings rendering. It's kind of, I don't know, part of the same mindset, John, that we are now going to be the authors. of the country's destiny because the sort of hoi-poloi that went with Trump cannot be trusted. So when he says the people, he needs the people and he doesn't want to beg for money. He wants the people to ask him to run. He's talking about the other people in the Hamptons that could bankroll him. He's not talking about like a mass movement for Don Lemon because that doesn't exist.

And even he is not delusional enough to think it exists. Well, and I mean, right. He's not talking about the wrong people. He's not talking about the bad people, right? And Democrats used to kind of slip up, you know, and say this famously, Hillary Clinton, in talking about the basket of deplorables in 2016, even Barack Obama before that talking about, you know, the people who cling to their guns in the religion. Those were sort of gaffs, campaign trail gaffs that they sort of tried to walk back.

Now that's just like they just say it. that is just the view is that we do not want these people. We don't even want to reach out to them. We don't want them in our party. They're not welcome. And it's honestly a huge problem for the Democrats because you don't, you know, Trump won twice by getting people who did not vote for Republican presidential candidates to vote for him.

That is how Obama won twice by getting people who don't usually vote for Democrats to vote for him. That's how you win a presidential election in this country. And they, you know, with the exception of 2020, which was rigged, which was also a very strange election where the rules were kind of thrown out the window. But they're not interested in winning that way anymore. And so, and that makes me very nervous about what, what they are going to do to try to win, because I think they've shown that they're willing to do anything. Lemon's arrogance to ignorance ratio is just off the charts. And that's always my biggest red flag. Not that anyone needs a red flag with Don Lemon.

I think everybody just kind of senses it, even his own viewers at CNN kind of sensed it. But as a little bit of dessert here, John, I wanted to call your attention to this discussion that Don Lemon had recently with Harry Sisson, the unfortunately named Harry Sisson, young Democrat influencer, giving a little bit of a...

They're in their bro era. They're trying to be much more masculine, And they want to fight. Let's roll this clip. And I've suggested to people before in interviews, I'm like, I want to fight them. I think, like to fight them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if Stephen Miller would agree or one of the Trump children or like anybody in the administration, I want to fight them.

You know what? That I would go pay to see on the White House lawn. That's what I'm saying. In the UFC. Why are we doing the UFC event? Why don't we just settle something? That's what I'm saying. Beef.

I'll take anybody in the white box for four years. And if they want to, I'd get back into training camp. get in the best shape of my life and go fight one of them. I would do it too. Yeah. That's what I feel like there's so many people that would do it. I don't know. I don't know, bro.

We can't possibly deserve that. I would also pay to see it. You would. I think that would be a great moment for the country to come together to see Baron Trump and Harry Sisson fight it out on the White House lawn. And then the winner can just like their side can be president. We'll just do it like we'll just bring it back to like ancient, you know, Homeric, Greek mythological ways of settling disputes. Two champions fight on the White House lawn.

That way, you know, we don't have to have this big election. It's just the winner, their side gets the White House. Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm going to be honest. I really believe that Donald Trump and his advanced elderly condition could beat the hell out of Harry Sisson. I really think he could. And Don Lemon.

Yeah, probably Don Lemon. Although Lemon probably also works out a lot. And he's gotta be, I don't know, he's probably like over six feet. Neither here nor there, John. So long as we're talking about the newfound masculinity of the Democrats, I just wanted to call your attention as an Austin expat who fled Austin, Texas, to get to Alaska because you were so horrified by what was happening around you in addition to your own reasons for going up to Alaska.

But over the weekend, James Tala Rico was at a town hall and got shouted down by a woman. I'll just read a bit from the Newsweek recap here. They say he was confronted by a constituent over alleged shortcomings in his outreach to black voters. This was during a stop in his senatorial campaign, according to local reporting and video shared across social media. The exchange occurred on Sunday when he was trying

to do a Q&A. session of a town hall that was happening in southwest Houston, and he's trying to end it, but a woman who was waiting in line said that he was failing to, quote, address the concerns of those who had traveled to be there and who would be critical to his success come November, quote, black people don't trust you for this reason and he cannot win without us. So you stay here, you answer our questions or you suffer the consequences. This sounds a lot like the loser in the primary, Jasmine Crockett, who said that the race was racist.

She recently said that just the last couple of weeks. She came back and said that that primary she lost was racist to Tala Rico. So let's take a look at the video to get a sense of how brutal this exchange actually was. So you stay here, you answer our question or you suffered the conflict.

So I'm happy to engage. We'll come to here just a second. I appreciate you being here and I appreciate you traveling in. And I appreciate you. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. That's wonderful.

That's wonderful. It's all right. It's all right. This is what this conversation is supposed to be about. Yeah. So, so one. John, John, John, John. That's Houston.

He actually really can't afford to have a disillusioned, especially a disillusioned black voting cohort, especially like Democratic black voters in cities. That's what he needs. You saw this with the Beto race, which you covered at the time while you were in Texas. That's what he needs. And any disillusionment will be a serious debt for him. Yeah.

To win a statewide. So the background here for people who aren't from Texas or who haven't paid attention to this, I think the last Democrat to win statewide in Texas was in the early 90s. I want to say like 1990, 1991, something like that. It may have been, it may have been Ann Richards, who won, who won the governor's race. And she was kind of this old school, like, pre-Civil War Democrat. No, she was old school Democrat, Democrat, machine politics, like New Deal, LBJ, kind of like party Democrat. And those Democrats, we call it, you know, they call them Blue Dog Democrats.

They were conservative on a lot of issues. they were just Democrats because of the Civil War. But the problem is they can't win a statewide race because you need to win in parts of the state that are just not going to vote for Democrats under any circumstances. And that means that in these Democrat strongholds like Houston and Austin and San Antonio, you have to have massive turnout. You have to, it really is a turnout game.

You have to get everybody to show up and vote. And when you run, frankly, when you run weirdos for a statewide office in Texas, you do not get the turnout you need in these places, some of which are heavily black like areas of Houston, others that are heavily Hispanic, like San Antonio, that are Democrat strongholds, they don't come out and vote for people like Beto O'Rourke. They're not going to come out and vote for people like James Tala Rico. And the problem for the Texas Democratic Party, we always used to joke that the greatest advantage that the Texas GOP has is that they have such a terrible opponents in the Texas Democratic Party. By rights, a smart Texas Democrat party should have been able to dethrone the Texas GOP, which is full of like grifters and idiots. Right.

It's made the GOP week. It's made the Texas GOP week having such a weak opponent. Yes. And it's a flabby GOP. I mean, look at the people they send to Washington, John Cornyn, you know, they have Ted Cruz, a huge disappointment, Ted Cruz. And the State House, you know, is not, it has a reputation, Texas has a reputation for being conservative, but it's mostly a reputation.

For many years, the Speaker of the Texas House was this guy named Joe Strauss. Joe Strauss became Speaker because every Democrat, voted for him and 11 Republicans supported it. And he became Speaker in like 2003 or 2004. And he was speaker for a decade. But he wasn't a speaker because he was the Republican Speaker. He was like the moderate rhino sort of Democrat establishment guy who happened to have an R behind his name.

That's the GOP of Texas. And they have stayed in power because the Democrat Party in Texas is so stupid and and runs these weirdos who say ridiculous things. Tala RICO has been going around making a big issue out of like how he loves trans kids and this kind of stuff. The moment has passed, like the trans moment has really passed electorally, I think. And yet they've saddled themselves with this sort of like trans adjacent kind of like obviously gay guy who is not going to appeal to the general electorate in Texas.

Similarly, they had Beto O'Rourke who during the general election thought it would be a good idea to go out and say that he was going to ban AR-15s if he got into office. Like, you were not going to win an election in Texas if you say that you're going to ban AR-15s. It's Texas. You've got to be smart. And the Texas Democrats are just not smart. What are you going to do about the hogs with the AR-15s? All right. So let's take a look at Talariko's new ad, which. John, this is a flavor of how they're trying to spin him.

Let's roll the clip. Across Texas, people are waking up before the sun, working hard, stretching every dollar. I was born to one of those people. A single mom guided by faith who did whatever it took to provide for me. As a teacher, I saw families doing everything right and still falling behind. In the state house, I brought both parties together to lower drughouse and cut property taxes. I'm James Tala Rico. and I approve this message because I'll take on corruption and make this economy work for working people again.

So that is a ram. He, the economist did a whole thing. I think we have this. We could put it up on the screen. The economist said an article on him like a year ago. I'm just pulling it up here now and I'm reading from it. It says the state, James Tolariko is not your ordinary Democrat. Not only does the state lawmaker drive a Chevy Colorado truck and own the Casey Cowboy Boots and

with the Texas state seal, but he invokes so many Bible teachings and conversation that you may get Sunday school flashbacks. So which is it? Is that a real ram that James Telerico owns? I've uncovered perhaps the biggest scandal of the entire race of the entire general election so far, John, or does he drive a Chevy Colorado? Has he changed the car out? What are we to make of this? Look, he's waking up, he's working, he's spending, he's dropping his G's. Do you notice what he said? He said he was born to one of those people, not that he's he was one of those people. He said he was born to one of those people who were working and waken and saving and doing Texas stuff.

It's frustrating too because the national media, there are things that they don't get like the little detail about the cowboy boots with the Texas seal. Every single lawmaker in Texas legislature has those boots. The people who make those boots go to the Texas state house and like have fittings and sell them. office to office. Everyone has them. It doesn't mean anything to have Texas cowboy boots with the Texas state seal on them. It doesn't mean he's like a real, you know, you know, root and tooting cowboy, right? So, yeah, this is the problem. And I think they know that they have a problem that they've like nominated this really kind of a feminine, weird kind of little guy who has unfortunate tendencies

to talk too much about trans stuff. And, like, you know, there was the whole vegan thing. And then he's like, we're not vegan. We love meat. And then they had a picture of him kind of like eating meat, which didn't go over well either. And now they're trying to correct it. And it just comes off false. Everybody can see, you know, the thing about the Trump era in politics is that authenticity

is now everything. And the electorate is on to kind of like the falseness of career politicians and the political machine, the campaign consultant class and how they present things, that's kind of like over now. So if you want to compete on a big stage in politics, you just have to be real. And the problem is for Talarico to be real, you're not going to get a majority in Texas. The majority voters are not going to vote for the real, James Tala Rico. So they're going to have to present this false version of him and that is going to ring. false. And I think he's going to lose. I think he's going to lose big time like every Democrat

has in recent history in the past, I don't know, what's it, 40 years. Yeah. And we should say, Harry Enton pointed out on CNN this morning that recent polling from CNBC in the Washington Post showed Democrats with an average four-point lead in the National House ballot. It's what he said is below where Democrats were, um, In 2006 and 2018, he said, quote, they show a big, uh-oh, worry sign, at least compared to history. I've been tracking that exact same figure over the course of the entire year. And on the RCP average and the generic ballot, it's been the same the entire time, which is interesting because Trump is now in an unpopular war. His favorables are in a very bad place.

He's overseeing the Republican Party. Virtually every Republican has been behind the unpopular war. Gas prices were at crazy high levels. Inflation, we'll see what happens if the war will. really restarts in earnest. We lost three more soldiers over the weekend, what happens to inflation and gas prices. But there's no excuse for them. If they are hoping for a blue wave to be lagging like that, I guess the excuse is the Texas Democrats nominated Tala Rico and his kind. Yeah, just like you have to just nominate somebody who isn't creepy and doesn't turn people off.

That shouldn't be that hard to do. Texas Democrats cannot do it. For years and years, they've had every opportunity. I mean, they couldn't get somebody to beat Ted Cruz, you know. Ted Cruz shouldn't be like a political powerhouse in a big state. You know, Texas is a big state, 28 million people, something like that. It's a big electorate, big diverse electorate focused in the cities, you know, which are multi-ethnic and diverse and, you know, not actually that concern.

conservative. Democrats should be able to win a state race in Texas, but they don't because of the people, the kinds of people the party nominates. Right. Important point, because not only did they fail to make inroads with Hispanic voters or black voters in Texas, they actually started losing Hispanic men, for example, in the Rio Grande Valley. So before you run, John, important story that you have been tracking literally for years. We worked together when this story first kicked off, and you were on it immediately. So in June, you wrote five years after Canadian liberals and cited a moral panic about, quote, mass graves

of indigenous schoolchildren. We should pause, by the way. It was not just Canadian liberals. It was the entire country, basically. Almost no one will admit it happened. Five years ago, a moral panic gripped Canada over a story that was obviously fake, but that's so perfectly confirmed the biases

of anti-Catholic liberals. No one in the media or the political establishment bothered to check its veracity. You have gone back and looked at the media cover where you say major corporate media outlets like New York Times, CNN, NPR, and the Globe and Mail simply repeated the central claim as fact. And a lot of those places have not corrected their stories. The National Post recently did a look back on some of the media coverage and said, despite calls for the New York Times to correct its story alleging mass graves, the outlet has never issued a correction.

Never. Instead, the Times continued to publish similar accounts and shape the tone of much of the early coverage. You can look at other outlets that have behaved similarly. But now, This brings us full circle, John, because to your point about the destruction of cultural institutions being used as a tool to then usher in new regimes, right now, according to CBC, the Assembly of First Nations has passed an emergency resolution that calls on Canada to criminalize residential school denialism. The advocacy organization, which represents Chiefs Countrywide, is holding its annual general assembly in Ottawa this week. The resolution was passed on Tuesday. Assembly of First Nations calls for criminalization of residential school denialism. The resolution calls for the government to either amend Bill C9 or create new standalone legislation that, quote, criminalizes the public condoning denial, justification, or minimization of Indian residential school denialism as a form of hate speech against First Nations. That's not even just criminalizing denialism.

That is, frankly, criminalizing questions. And yeah, and thoughts and- And journalism. And opinions, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So the background here is the residential schools in Canada, a lot of people in America don't know this because it's Canada and we don't care about Canada. But in the 19th century, the Canadian government set up a series of residential schools for the Indian populations, oftentimes in very remote places that would be in many cases compulsory. the schools would bring children from Indian communities in a certain area to the school. They would stay there.

And the idea was to culturally assimilate them so that they could be part of Canadian society. The Catholic Church was the government asked the Catholic Church to run a lot of these schools, which the church did faithfully for many decades up until the 1990s. This went from around the middle of the 19th century all the way up to the 1990s. So people, you know, there's plenty of people still alive today, adults who went to these schools as children. The narrative that has taken hold in Canada now is that these schools were a sort of like a cultural genocide of the Canadian First Nations people and rampant with abuse and sexual abuse and the children were murdered and their bodies were thrown in mass graves and these sadistic cruel nuns and priests, you know, tormented these poor Indian children who were ripped from their families. And so that is not. the truth of historically, like factually of what happened. The truth is a lot of stuff happened,

good and bad. But many of these schools were places that families voluntarily and sent their kids to, wanted their kids to go, saw it as a way for their kids to be successful in Canadian society. Families were buried on the cemetery grounds of some of these schools, along with the priests and the nuns who lived in work there. the government chronically underfunded these schools. And so incidences of death from diseases, from, you know, smallpox and the kinds of things that used to kill people in the olden days were a lot higher in the residential schools because there wasn't the type of medical care and the nutrition and the and the sort of amenities that they had in urban Canada out east. right? And this is sort of a, just a feature of frontier life. This was true of everybody who lived in these very remote rural places in Canada at the time. We were talking, you know, the 1880s,

like Alberta, you know, there wasn't a lot out there, right? So that's the historical context. And so what these First Nations groups in Canada are trying to say is you can only have one opinion about this like big complicated piece of Canadian history where good things happened and bad things happened just like our own settlement of the Western frontier in our country. Good things happen and bad things happened and there were good people and bad people and it was a big complicated thing. It was history. It was a big part of, it's a big part of their history. And what they're saying is we're going to criminalize anything except our narrow political interpretation of this and criminalized speech and thought and opinions about it and attach criminal

penalties to it is what they would like to do. And this was their reaction to bring it back to the stories about the mass graves to the fact that there has been no mass graves uncovered. Some of these schools had cemeteries attached to them. And over time, the wooden, you know, headstones and crosses decayed and fell down and are in need of upkeep, like a lot of old cemeteries in vast expanses of wilderness and rural places. But their reaction is to double down because they know that the mass graves hoax is a hoax and that there are no mass graves and that the whole thing was a shakedown and it was a part of a Canadian liberal elites wanting to have their own George Floyd moment. And also, by the way, unremarked in a lot of the coverage is the

violence that was unleashed across Canada in 2021 against Catholic churches. Dozens of churches destroyed, vandalized, some of them completely burned to the ground, some of them historical churches that serve these native communities that belong to the native communities, and of course, not a peep from the media that perpetrated this hoax. Not then and not now and probably not ever. It's just stunning. There's a journalist Terry Glavin who did a lot of reporting on this that folks can check out. All of that reporting would be illegal under this proposed law from the Assembly of First Nations. John Daniel Davidson is senior editor at the Federalist.

He is the author of the wonderful book, Pagan America. John, it's such a pleasure to have you back on the show. I hope to see you soon. Thanks, Emily. And if you want more about, you know, the Wild West and the frontier, you know, Horizon with Kevin Kossner. How do you do it? How do you do it?

John, that was a 10 out of 10, Olympic level full circle moment. Thank you, sir. Thanks, Emily. All right, we're going to take a quick break. and we will be right back with some thoughts on record-breaking comedian Shane Gillis. Well, summer is officially in full swing, and if you're looking to upgrade your warm weather routines, cozy Earth has you covered. I have completely refreshed my home with their incredible

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for elevated everyday luxury. Summer lives here, and honestly, so does cooling comfort. Head to cozy earth.com and use my code Emily for an exclusive 20% off. That's code Emily for an exclusive 20% off. And if you see a post-purched survey, mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Well, you can bet that if comedian Shane Gillis were, what was that woman's name, Hannah Gatsby that did the Nanette special on Netflix during the kind of capital P.W. Peak Woke era, or if he were someone who were more obviously of a left-leaning persuasion, the fact that he smashed records on Friday at the link would be all over the place. And it's actually really not.

Let's toss this up on the screen. This is the link actually posting. Congratulations, Shane Gillis, tonight's show at Lincoln Financial Field, officially set two to Guinness World Record titles. Largest audience for a comedian. That was 74,000 attendees, actually just shy. 73, 946. So basically 74,000 attendees. Most tickets sold for a comedy show is the other record by a solo comedian. Seventy-7,000 tickets sold. They said thank you to every fan who helped

make history with us and posted a picture of Gillis in what looks like an Eagles shirt. I can't tell right here because it's where my computer is. Either way, hometown boy, basically smiling, grinning ear to ear with his two Guinness World Records certificates. And Gillis, this was 2019. So back in 2019, Gillis became known after he was cast on Saturday Night Live and then instantly canceled. This is the run up to 2020 when canceled culture was very much beginning to boil over. Gillis was called out for making jokes that were offensive to Asians. I checked my own piece about this at the time at the federal list just to see how it aged.

And it reminded me that both Andrew Yang, who was very hot at the time, and Rob Schneider came out and said, this is Schneider. As a former SNL cast member, I am sorry that you, Shane Gillis, had the misfortune of being a cast member during this era of cultural unforgiveness where comedic misfires are subject to the intolerable inquisition of those who never risked bombing on stage themselves. Okay. And I actually think that's an important point because Schneider is saying, the people criticizing Gillis never risked bombing on stage. And the jokes that Gillis got canceled for were just like really crude flat impressions. It's actually kind of funny that he got canceled over these impressions. And if I'm remembering correctly, they were of Asian Americans.

Again, if I'm remembering correctly, that's what it was. And that's why Rob Schneider, who I think has Filipino heritage, was weighing in on the question. And Andrew Yang said, I think we as a society have become excessively punitive and vindictive concerning people's statements and expressions we disagree with or find offensive. I don't think people should be losing jobs unless it's truly beyond the pale and egregious. So just to give you a sense of why people were flocking to Yang, this is ahead of the Democrats' 2020 primary, where everyone was like tripping over themselves to call Joe Biden Trump-Thurman, basically, like to be the person who was most convinced Joe Biden was a racist.

And then he picked the one who arguably won that comment. didn't even make it to the Iowa caucuses as vice president. Again, just some insight into this moment in American history. But one thing I saw that I wrote at the time is that it would basically make, it would have this major chilling effect where people don't kind of go back to the drawing board. They get a response that's, oh, that joke kind of sucked. Here I'm going to actually get better and build a little bit. and build into something that is stronger,

and Shane Gillis totally defied the odds, because that's exactly what happened in our cultures. Like, there was limited space for creativity. And I'll say Shane Gillis and a lot of comedians who were kind of working in new spaces at the time defied the odds, because they just put their nose to the grindstones and figured out how to be clever about the moment that we found ourselves in. Like, they really got sharper.

Chappelle did some of his best stuff during this era, obviously. Although it's hard to be Chappelle's show. Anyway, the point is, there's this handful of comedians who busted their asses and became really incisive. I mean, comedians were always very incisive critics of political correctness and canceled culture, but really became so influential, I think, finally breaking the fever that was gripping in America during this time period. And as we've covered here, that fever is not breaking. with some group of the public and some significant group of the public. It's going to be with us decades into the future because, at least my perspective,

is that this is how, this is that the house of sand on which many people's worldview was built. And if your worldview is built on this postmodernism, it can actually almost become stone. It can become a foundation of stone for a lot of people because it's so rigid and inflexible. And if that's where your sense of purpose is coming from and your way of actually explaining the world, than that rigidity and inflexibility, especially when it comes to truth and things like free speech, those become tricky for you. The real stumbling blocks, as we've seen very clearly. And so with Gillis, he really did.

This was almost, because I think this happened around August, September when he got canceled from S&L. So this is almost seven years ago now. If I'm doing my math correctly, yeah, totally. 2019, so almost seven years ago. And the guy put his nose to the grindstone. He developed some really great routines, was totally humbled by the experience, and came out on top.

And so I'll just say like, first of all, credit to Chain Gillis for making the most of that experience. It's exactly what people should do, but I think it, because the kind of cultural furor was so, it was so suffocating. A lot of people didn't have the ability, maybe financially the ability to keep working some of this stuff out on the side

without risking cancellation. Understandably didn't want their families to get dragged into this and to go through the whole cancel culture disaster. But people like Shane Gillis did, and they worked really hard and they came out really as sharper comedians, really clever comedians, people doing great work.

And Gillis is just funny. He's just funny. He's kind of like guy next door funny. And so good for him. He's much more deft with his offensiveness now. He weaves it together pretty well in a way where there's always good payoff for the most part. And tires is great. And I think tires is coming back.

So he's got like a hit Netflix show. He's busting records and all of that in less than a decade, but a very difficult decade for him to be doing. what he did. So his comedy is the type of stuff, like you play his Trump bits for your family that hates Trump, they're going to laugh at it unless they're totally, uh, like off on some sort of angry island. They're probably going to laugh at it. It's funny stuff. It's relatively unifying. And, uh, you know, he very easily could have thrown in the towel, but he didn't. And I think that made us a healthier country and I think it's a sign of cultural health.

that he was able to fill the link up at a record-breaking level, Guinness World Record-breaking level. So I want to give a little shout-out to Shane and a shout-out to people for not giving up on guys like Shane and continuing to find ways to consume this type of great comedy, even when it was somewhat risky to... I mean, that's why podcasts were easier than going to shows, right? That's why I think some comedians really thrived on podcasts

during this time of like the fury as the fire was rising, the cultural fever hadn't broken, and it was just easier to consume comedy on podcasts. And so there was a big market for it. And I think some of the guys thrived because of that. They didn't have to. They could have thrown in the towel. A lot of people probably did, and understandably so. So I do think it's maybe a rare sign of cultural health and vigor that Jane Gillis got so many people out to.

The link on Friday night. out a big sort of parade of comedians and celebrities with a lot of support behind what he was doing. All right. On that note, thank you so much for tuning in to the night's edition of After Party. As a reminder, please do subscribe to the channel. It helps us so much. Like, comment, all that is really helpful. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast and we will be back on Wednesday with more After Party. See you then, everyone.