After Party with Emily Jashinsky - The TRUTH about UFOs and the Laptop From Hell, with Miranda Devine, PLUS Chris Cuomo's AOC Deepfake Fail

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

Emily Jashinsky is joined by Miranda Devine, Host of “Pod Force One,” to discuss crime in Washington, to discuss President Trump’s takeover of D.C. police, why the President doesn’t want to make life too comfortable for the media, the night she spent in one of Saddam Hussein’s palaces and how it compared to Trump’s decorating aesthetic, her new podcast, if the Trump Admin has proof of UFO’s, if Miranda was targeted during her Hunter Biden reporting, and what she believes is the true relationship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. Then…Emily takes a deep dive into the disturbing new report from the Financial Times on how young people’s personalities are changing, Chris Cuomo falling for an AOC deepfake, how comedy has impacted politics, and more. PreBorn: Help save a baby go to https://PreBorn.com/Emily or call 855-601-2229. Masa Chips: Go to https://MASAChips.com/AFTERPARTY and use codeAFTERPARTY for 25% off your first order.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Happy Monday, everyone. It's been a while since I saw you on Wednesday. Of course, we are here, Mondays and Wednesdays at 10 p.m. live on YouTube. You can catch us afterwards, wherever you get your podcast or, of course, on YouTube. The great Miranda Devine is here tonight. So she will be joining us shortly. I also have just a couple of things I want to go over in the sort of pop culture world. I know you all watched the Gilded Age finale and want to talk about train daddy. So we'll get to that towards the end. But also, Chris Cuomo fell for what I think is just like the most astoundingly stupid example of a deep fake that you could possibly find. So we are going to have a little fun with that. Drew Barrymore and Bill Maher have new comments on the, I guess,

comedy scene, what you can say, what you can't say. But so does Mark Marin. So I'm going to break out a little bit of what everyone is saying. Now that you can say things or you can't say things still, according to Drew Barrymore, who we so quickly forget was once married to Tom Green. So all kinds of fun stuff to break down on that front. And I have to the little bugaboo that I want to just discuss with everyone on social media and TikTok and young people who are very rightly diagnosing their own sorts of economic ills. But doing it in a way that I think should trouble all of us. We also have some new data from the financial times to go over. So all kinds of stuff to get to. Let's start, though, with Donald Trump's marathon briefing at the White House today.

This was really something. So let me just as a little bit of a story, back up. I was in the press pool on Saturday when Donald Trump went golfing at his golf club in Sterling, Virginia, just about a half an hour outside of D.C., west into Virginia. And as we were, were in the motorcade. It was crammed into the press van. It's almost 14 years to the day since my parents dropped me off here in D.C. for college. Shout out mom and dad. I know you're watching. You remember this very well. And you also probably remember the exact same tent encampments that dot the patches of grass around Foggy Bottom and Georgetown, definitely other parts of the city as well. But we passed one of those encampments. They move around a little bit, but they're roughly in the

same spot in the motorcade. And I thought to myself, because rumors had been swirling that Donald Trump was plotting a federal takeover of D.C., I wonder if he's looking out the window. Sure enough, the next morning, Donald Trump went back to his golf club in Stirling, Virginia, and posted a photo either from the day before or that day of the roadside tent encampments and the trash on the side of the road as you're leaving D.C. and going into Virginia and announced that he was going to be making a big big. decision on Monday. So that culminated in today's briefing. I wasn't there, but you could see from the pictures. It was absolutely packed like shoulder to shoulder as it's never been before.

Trump kept commenting on that sort of like first inauguration level. It's never been so packed, never seen so many people in here and having fun with just the crowd size and the briefing room. But we're going to talk to Miranda a little bit about that. I do want to roll one clip, though, because this has set off a really interesting discourse that's very revealing about, I think, the media and the culture war. So let's go ahead here and roll S-1. This is a clip from Trump's marathon briefing. I mean, the guy let everyone else talk in the cabinet seemingly.

He talked forever. He took a lot of questions. This thing just kept going. It started like a half hour late. But this one part, as critical as I, I often am of Donald Trump. This part stood out to me. This is S-1.

It's a very, very strong reflection of our country. And when they see a bad city, you know, my father always used to tell me, I had a wonderful father, very smart. And he used to say, son, when you walk into a restaurant and you see a dirty front door, don't go in. Because if the front door is dirty, the kitchen's dirty also. same thing with the capital if our capital's dirty

our whole country is dirty and they don't respect us okay that's very poignant I thought that was the most poignant moment of the entire press conference now there's debate about what crime is like here in Washington D.C. whether it's up, whether it's down, whether it's better or whether it's worse

than other major cities and let me just say I mean COVID was a low point if you traveled to D.C. during COVID during the pandemic I mean for a long, time, like a lot of deep blue cities, the pandemic just stretched and stretched and storefronts were empty. Homelessness was visibly worse. People were clearly being haunted by the ravages of fentanyl seemingly around every corner in some of the higher foot traffic areas of the city. And in other areas, I just took a buzz, actually, on my bike around Union Station about an hour ago

because I knew we were going to talk about this. So I wanted to see Trump is now deploying the National Guard. He's done a federal takeover. of the Metropolitan Police Department here, and reports are that they're already taking this very seriously and cracking down on things like marijuana and other infractions. D.C. is a really complicated city. Some of it is national parkland. There's all kinds of different law enforcement agencies,

as you can imagine, Secret Service, et cetera. The police department right now, what a lot of national observers don't realize, is mired in a really complicated scale. handle as to whether or not its statistics are accurate. The police union says it's a false narrative that crime is going down. There's an active investigation right now into people who were allegedly cooking the books in the crime data. So it's way more complicated than a lot of the people in national media are saying because per usual,

Trump comes out and is Trump bluster, right? He tends to hyperboize and exaggerate. And that's led to a lot of journalists downplaying what it's like here in Washington, D.C., the gateway to the United States for many, many tourists. It is the seat of our government. It is the center of global wealth and power. And when people step foot off a train in Union Station, they see filth. And they see our inability to offer compassionate outreach to people who are suffering from addiction

and cycles of crime and poverty. So it's just been frustrating to watch them. National Press Corps deal with this. So let's bring on that note, Miranda Devine, who is the host of Pod Force One and of course a New York Post columnist, Miranda, this podcast, Pod Force One. You've interviewed literally everyone. I mean, you're going to be at the bottom of the list so far in terms of high profile guests. This is incredible. Thanks for joining us. Oh, hi, Emily. Really good to be with you. Yeah, it's been a bit of a ride. Fantastic. I'm lucky that Donald Trump has done it and Susie Wiles and Scott Bessent and just recently

Tulsi Gabbard. So they're so interesting and they have such a lot to talk about, you know, about current events and whatever secrets that I managed to prize out of them. Yes. And we have some videos of Tulsi Gabbard. We're going to play in a moment before we do, Miranda. I wanted to get your read on the briefing today. Really long briefing in the White House briefing room.

And with Trump, there's something so interesting when it comes to his posture. He has the instincts, I think, of a populist, and he looks at things like crime and immigration, two really good examples, and, you know, failed wars, adventurism in the Middle East, and knows that the average American is sick of it. And on the other hand, sometimes you can see where it's like, okay, are we, is he trying to be, for example, Buckele? Or is he trying to be just a guy who's like tough on crime, Giuliani mayor figure who cracks down on some of this ridiculousness? So how do you think he sees himself? Like is the left wrong to be like, oh, this is him, you know, trying to be an American

Buckele? Or is he just sort of trying to be a Giuliani Bloomberg type figure who brings crime down? Look, I mean, I think he just has a very coherent view, which is that it's America first. And America's capital is Washington, D.C., which is a disgrace. I mean, I've been going there every week since I've started this podcast. And I mean, I used to live there back when I was at university. And it has gone downhill in every possible metric. It is now the number one murder capital of the world. You know, it's more dangerous than Mexico City and Baghdad. And you, you know, what does it take? You had a young, Young intern murdered, you know, shot dead in what should have been a safe area going to McDonald's at 10 o'clock at night, a White House intern.

You know, remember there was an Uber driver. Oh, this story is awful. Oh, dragged to his death. His little girls thought it was funny to carjack him. There was that husband who went to pick up his wife downtown after work. You know, I think it was 6 o'clock at night. He's sitting in the car, gets murdered. And then there was big balls the other day, the Doge or former Doge worker, he gets beaten to within an inch of his life, gets a severe concussion, protects his girlfriend and ends up just being, you know, with blood all over him.

And, you know, these are assaults at the heart of the Capitol. And so I think it just offends Donald Trump that there are homeless encampments, that it's violent and dangerous, the people, the young people that work for him in the White House. They are walking home. They are late at night because they work long hours. They're catching public transport. He wants them to be safe. He wants tourists to come to Washington, D.C. And be proud of what their taxes pay for.

And it is a beautiful city. I mean, it's full of the most spectacular monument. and museums and these big broad plazas, and it's defiled by the disorder that always seems to accompany democratic cities, plague democratic cities. And so he has the power to go into D.C. It's not a state. And he's doing what he ought to do. And for all the complaints from Democrats and their stupid little chanting, singing and carry on,

You know, they're the ones benefiting, really. Unless they're like Chuck Schumer and they have round the clock secret service details and showford limousines paid for by the taxpayer, AOC the same, most people, their staffers are at risk as well. So I think most Democrats, and the other ridiculous thing the left is saying is that somehow this is racist. Basically, the biggest victims of the crime in D.C. are black people because they form the majority of the people who work there and live there.

And so it's not racist. It's anti-racist, if anything. So I think it's completely coherent. And it's just the left has nothing to attack Trump on except they call him a racist. They call them authoritarian. The authoritarian thing is just an offshoot from their lie about his being elected by Vladimir Putin, and so he models himself on Putin. It's just threadbare.

They have nothing else. They have no positive policy agenda. And all Trump is doing, it's not ideological, it's plain common sense. It's what a businessman does when he comes into takeover company, and there are all sorts of problems in it. he just systematically sorts each one of them out, and he's now come to D.C., and I'm sure he'll sort that out like he's sorted out the border. So you know Donald Trump, the people around him, you've talked to them. And, you know, I was just telling the audience, I took a bike ride around Union Station Capitol Hill before we went to air to get a sense of what it looks like

out there right now. There are early reports that there are heightened police presence, National Guard, other law enforcement patrolling the streets of D.C. I didn't see anything too different yet, but I would imagine that's going to be one of the very first places they start. There was a bit more, it seemed like it was a bit more of a police presence, but that raises the question of how far do you think he will go on this Miranda, like knowing him, knowing the people around him. I thought you're framing just then was super helpful. He sees this as a businessman and a pragmatist above all else.

So what does that kind of look like for D.C.? does he want the National Guard really roaming the streets and you're cracking down? Well, I mean, that's all a bit of a joke considering that Nancy Pelosi after January 6th, having blocked the deployment of the National Guard to come and help with this enormous crowd of people that poor old Stephen's son, the Capitol Police Chief, had been begging her for days. And she and Muriel Bowser got together and decided that there would not be any national Guard. You know, I think it's because they genuinely, because they're so Trump deranged,

thought that Trump was going to use the military to stay in the White House, not to leave on January 20, whether it not they believed that or just wanted to sow mayhem to get Trump afterwards. I don't know. But it was their fault. And she then, remember, she militarized DC. There were fences everywhere. There were National Guard that were camping out in. underground garages eating maggot-filled food because she didn't bother to make sure that they were adequately supplied. So that was what we had. So if anyone should be accused of authoritarianism, it's Nancy Pelosi. I doubt very much whether D.C. is going to look like that again, although all those lefties and Democrats that never uttered a peep about Nancy Pelosi's

authoritarian impulses, now I'm sure that, you know, the first sign of, you know, a couple of national guards on K Street, they'll be hyperventilating about Trump being a dictator. So I think what he'll probably do is it'll be sticks and carrots. Muriel Bowser will sort of be bullied and encouraged into whipping her own police force into shape. If she doesn't do that, then there might be, you know, the next step ratchet up. I think whatever way it's done, D.C. residents will see cleaner streets, safer streets. And, you know, they're also very lucky to have the new US attorney for D.C. Judge Janine Piro.

And she really is a tough nut. And the way she was speaking today, she's frustrated about not having the power to prosecute any of these people, particularly juveniles who she says, you know, instead of getting into trouble, for carjacking and creating mayhem and violently attacking people, they're getting yoga lessons. So she's pretty furious about that. And, you know, I mean, it's sad. These kids are probably not, you know, not got great home lives,

but it doesn't help them to have them encouraged to become criminals on the street. So they should be diverted into some sort of situation where they can be tamed and maybe taught how to read and write and have a productive life and not destroy the lives of everyone else. Yeah, and just because D.C. is at the focus of the national news cycle today. I'll add a couple of bits for this. The D.C. Police Chief Pamela Smith has said that they've seen an increase in youth crime. There have been what sort of are informally dubbed like teen takeovers

of a very popular high-end neighborhood, Navy Yard, very, very popular with young people who work on Capitol Hill and in other places of the city where it's just basically lawlessness and anarchic and the cops have had a really hard time reeling it in. Also, truancy is not recovered from before the pandemic. I mean, just shocking levels of truancy in D.C. public schools. So the city is, people here in the city are willing to admit

all of these different problems when it's not in the middle of a culture war. And I think the press corps has far from covered itself in glory today, Miranda. Let's roll this clip of Trump saying he doesn't want to make life too comfortable. for journalists who are in the briefing room. This was earlier today, again, at the press conference as S2. You're building the big, beautiful ballroom. Could we build a big, beautiful briefing room?

Yes. Oh, yeah. More seats. I don't want you to be comfortable. So, no, I don't want to make life comfortable. Okay, Miranda. what's your reaction to how the press has covered this story just over the last, I think, 72 hours. First, the rumors were spinning that it was going to happen and then it happened today.

What did you make of how the press corps responded? It's just kind of typical, but that was quite an amusing banter. And I think that the Washington Press Corps ought to be careful about what they wish for, because where the press room is now, I assume you know exactly where it is, the pool room, what used to be the covered over pool that JFK used to swim in, that is right outside the Rose Garden. It's a very convenient spot right in the center of the act of action. And now that Donald Trump's paved over the Rose Garden and he's talked about, I mean,

I don't know if he's joking, but he's talked about turning it into kind of like a private, very private, exclusive club and having, you know, cigars smoked out there and, you know, inviting over senators and congressmen and favoured people. Now, the press room has got an eagle eye view on that, and it would be the most magnificent stories and gossip, and especially if they're drinking and, you know, having some cognac and cigars. I mean, imagine what might go on late at night.

So you would want to stay in that press room, even though it is a little bit cramped. I also think they're quite like the fact that it's cramped because it means that, you know, it keeps it rather elite. for themselves. God forbid that it be twice the size and then, you know, you'd have Bright Bart and all these, you know, and podcasters coming in there on a regular basis. I think the New York Times and the Washington Post and NBC and so on, I think they're quite like it being exclusive the way it is

right now with just one rotating new media seat that always gets the opportunity to be called on first by Carolyn Leavitt. But look, I mean, I think actually, actually, that the Washington Press Corps has been quite, quite sort of reasonable in this presidency. You know, they haven't got lunatics like Jim Acosta standing up and abusing the president. And Carolyn Levitt is, she really has command of that room. And I think she has the respect of everybody in it and a little bit of fear. She's a remarkable press secretary. So on that note, I have a weird.

very specific question, Miranda, which is I have a colleague who once jokingly referred to Trump's aesthetic as the gold started going up increasingly in the Oval Office as, quote, late Saddam. What do you make of Trump's his renovations so far? Some people were a little perturbed by the rendering of what this ballroom will look like, but it's clear that there's a lot more gold in the Oval Office. Is this, you know, Trump wanting to really put his physical stamp on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Like, help us explain or help us understand a little bit about what he thinks when he does these things. Yeah, 100%.

It's him putting his personal stamp. But also, he just has such a pride in the White House and it being the sort of jeweling the crown of American democracy. And he wants it to be at its best. And, you know, parts of it are, you know, a little shabby. And he, and look, I don't find where. what he's done with the Oval Office at all unattractive. And I think that the ballroom, I was in Scotland at his golf course there

where, you know, he just had the meetings with Ursula Vandalayden and Kyristama to make those trade deals in Europe. And he showed us the ballroom there and it is magnificent. It has eight massive chandeliers. It's quite elegant. and it's got, it's high-ceilinged, you know, beautiful kind of cornices and inlays and just very tasteful, lovely. I mean, it's opulent, but not in a disgusting way.

And I have been and stayed a night in one of Saddam's palaces during the Iraq War. I'm sorry, what? Yes, yes. Well, it was taken over by the US government, obviously, and the US military in Baghdad. And, you know, it looks from the distance to be beautiful. The Australian Army was in there too. And so I was sort of embedded with them for a little while. And, you know, but it's very tacky.

Like you go in there and it looks like marble columns, but it's a very thin sheet of marble that's sort of wrapped around. And it only goes up to just above eye height because I guess they just ran out of money. And it's sort of, it's not actual gold. I don't think it's sort of tacky guilt paint, whereas Donald Trump prides himself on, this is real gold. And he's, you know, he's picked out the eagle that is in the center of the ceiling of the Oval Office, which was just sort of in relief in white.

And he's picked that out in gold. And it looks beautiful. So, I mean, I haven't been there for a few weeks. So I know that he keeps on adding more golden highlights. But I think it's quite beautiful. So I don't think people should complain about it. And, you know, when sneering sort of New York magazine writers or New York Times writers speak about Trump's aesthetic, they're kind of harking back to a 1980s Trump,

which was the fashion then. It was like over the top gaudy, glitzy, goldy things. And, you know, Trump's taste has moved with the times. So on the other end of this break, I'm going to get Miranda to talk more about herself because casually dropping that Saddam anecdote is not where I thought this was going. Little did I know. I was asking someone who actually has the best perspective on what late Saddam looks like. That question. So stick around to hear Miranda answer some of my burning questions.

But before we get to that, you guys know over the years, I have been clear about this. I'm not just pro-life. I'm not just pro-birth, I should say I'm pro-life. Not just pro-life, also pro-birth. Pro-birth, they go hand in hand, or at least they should. And that is why pre-born is so important. Being pro-life means standing with mothers, not only before their baby is born, but long after.

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So not just say your pro-life. Live it. Help save babies and support mothers today. Go to preborn.com slash Emily or call 855-601-229. That's preborn.com slash Emily. All right. We are back once again with the great Miranda Devine, host of Pod Force One. And of course, a New York Post columnist.

Miranda, I have a really simple question for you. What is your secret? I mean, your podcast so far, you have had Donald Trump, you have had Susie Wiles, you have had Tulsi Gabbard, you've had Eric Adams, I mean, just an incredible guest list. But thinking about your ability to talk to and to pry information really out of this administration, what do you think is your secret? How do you, for example, get somebody who's so tight-lipped like Susie Wiles to sit down and for 40 minutes go back and forth with you? But tell us maybe the backstory behind that interview, because I bet it's a good example of how you do this. Yeah, look, I think just the New York Post brand is the secret because that's Donald Trump's hometown paper. And he does have a soft spot for it.

You know, I mean, it hasn't always been the easiest relationship, I think, between the Post and Donald Trump. But it's been a long-term one. And he is, you know, he does think of it with some. fondness. And so that's part of it. And I think maybe the laptop from hell connection, you know, that that meant that I was known to a lot of these, the people who are in the administration and to the president, who very kindly endorsed the book, the first book. And so I, and also, I mean, laptop from hell is his title. He coined that, that fantastic title. So, so he had a part of it. So there's that. And then,

with Susie Wiles, she was very difficult. You know, she does, she really very rarely gives interviews. But I think I'd done an interview with Monica Crowley, who's a friend and was very, I mean, she's just so charming and lovely. And it's so very easy to chat to her like a friend. And I feel like I'd had requests into Susie Wiles over and over, but I felt there was a softening after the Monica Crowley interview maybe because maybe Susie Wiles saw that, you know, I wasn't going to try to do gotcha questions or extract

unfairly information from her that she didn't want to give. You know, I don't think, you know, it's just, it's a very different, and I'm learning, because I've not done this before, it's a very different kind of genre of, I don't know, journalism, offshoot of journalism. I'm used to interviewing people. I've been doing that, you know, for decades. But usually it's with a desire to get an angle on a story, get quotes for story, get information for a story. You know, sometimes it'll be off the record or whatever. And, you know, occasionally you do a profile, which is a little softer, I guess. But this is different because in a podcast, you're not looking for a headline.

You're not looking for a gotcha. You're really looking to establish a rapport with the person and get to know them. And, you know, if they have things that they really don't. want to tell you, they're not going to tell you and you're not going to make them feel uncomfortable about it. It's not adversarial. So it's quite pleasant for me. I quite enjoy it now, you know, and I think people let their guard down and increasingly I hope that's the case because they know that there's no ulterior motive other than get to know you. You know, these are very important people. It's a slice of history and it's an ability to sort of see behind,

You know, the people who are making these decisions, the most powerful people on the planet. And they're real human beings. And, you know, every one of them that I've interviewed and that I've met are just good people. And so I think that they don't mind that being showcased, that they're nice people, they're formidable. They all have something to teach us about success and hard work. And I think that's one of the most interesting answers. that I get from them is just when I wrap up and ask them about, you know, not necessarily, I don't want to embarrass some of them, don't really want to talk about themselves and say,

what's the secret of your success? But, you know, they all meet powerful people. What's the secret of those people's success? And often they talk about themselves. And a lot of the time, it's, you know, it really is. It's just, it's hard work and it's focus. And Scott Besson said something interesting, which was, he was talking, really about his life as a very successful investor. And just saying, if you're not living and breathing it, if you're not dreaming about it when you go to bed and wake up in the morning thinking about it,

you're really not going to be a huge success. So I think it's passion as well. And then the other interesting thing that I've learned, and it's a sort of, it's not all of them, but many of the men, and I've interviewed, at least four of them, have had a shocking thing, happened to their fathers when they were about, you know, between nine, 10, 11 years old.

And, you know, Doug Bergam's case, his father was killed in, you know, other people's cases. Their father has gone bankrupt. That was Scott Besson's situation, you know, who's very well off from this family that had been, you know, many generations very wealthy and suddenly they were broke. and he had to watch, you know, furniture that had been in the family for generations carried out by the repo men because his father sort of made some bad decisions when he was at that age. And so it's just, it's fascinating to see what forms these people and gives them that drive. Well, let's play a little bit of your interview with Donald Trump and then with Tulsi Gabbard,

because you got some really interesting answers out of them on UAP, so unidentified aerial phenomena, UFOs, UAP, yeah, all of it. So let's roll S3 here. This is Miranda with Donald Trump. I wanted to ask you about drones. You know, we had the issue in New Jersey before the election where there are all these people thought UFOs or an attack of the killer drones.

And I believe you're doing something about what are you doing? Well, I know who, I can't tell you who it was and what it was, but I can't really tell you. I'd love to tell you, actually, but it's not a big deal. It's not something frightening. No, but I just, you know, so obviously it's something that I know about, and it's not a problem at all. It was legal. Oh, yeah, that was legal. Huh.

Okay, Miranda, before we get to Tulsi, I actually just want to get your reaction to that question. Do you believe him there? Yeah, I don't think he's lying, but he's obviously. obviously not telling us what he knows. And I probably should have pushed that a bit further. It was towards the end of the interview. So I knew who's getting a bit impatient. But yeah, I mean, he wasn't going to tell me whatever it was. But, you know, as you know, I kept on trying with other cabinet members. Right. So let's go ahead here and roll Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, who had an answer to your question that made a lot of headlines after you

sat down on August 6 for the episode aired August 6. So this is S4. We've had some declassification of some very strange videos that look like they are, you know, unidentified flying objects. Is there anything in the files that you think you could find or you have found? Nothing that I'm prepared to talk about today. So do you believe that there could be aliens? I honestly like my personal belief, I have my own views and opinions. Right. In this role, I got to be careful with what I share. And the New Jersey, the strange objects over New Jersey were drones? I still have a lot of questions around that.

Yeah. You know, I've heard what the public official line is. I just personally still have a lot of questions that are unanswered. Yeah. Because it wasn't just New Jersey. It was happening in different parts of the country. Oh, really? Yeah.

So Miranda, help us decode that answer because it's, Tulsi Gabbard comes into office as Director of National Intelligence, presumably, you may know more about this, has access to a lot of intelligence. Now, how much access she has to it when she asks to see certain information is a different question. We know that from actually some of the reporting about the Russiagate files that have since come out. So we don't really know what she's seen or what she hasn't seen, but there she's she's saying in her personal capacity. she believes there's a little bit more going on. Did you get the sense that that was informed by what she's seen over the last six months as D&I? Yes, I did.

I definitely did. There's something they know that we don't know. And I don't think that, I mean, she's just said that that official story we were told that these were just, you know, amateur drones or whatever it was over New Jersey. I mean, that beggar's belief, it beggared belief at the time. and she's just confirmed that it didn't make sense. Now, Donald Trump said it was nothing to worry about and it was legal. So I don't know what that leaves us with. You know, I mean, and she sort of said she implied that she believes in aliens.

I don't know. You know, I mean, maybe they're pleasant aliens. Maybe they are. Law abiding aliens. Law abiding aliens. Law abiding aliens, exactly. So I don't know, but there is definitely something there. The truth is out there.

The truth is out there. Well, Miranda, speaking of which, you have an encyclopedic knowledge of the laptop from hell and the entire Hunterbaden bite on the saga. Right. And he's been out talking more about it now and saying things that are genuinely interesting and also is obviously false. But I wanted to ask a question that I've been curious about, which is, did anything weird happen?

to you during the course of your reporting on the Hunter Biden stuff. Sometimes reporters have little anecdotes and good reporters rarely talk about themselves. That's one of the many reasons we know you're a good reporter, Miranda. But did any, did you ever get the sense that you were being watched? Did anything ever feel like it had obviously gotten hacked? Any of that happened to you during that reporting? Look, yes. And maybe because I, you know, I was a bit paranoid.

And so maybe I was seeing things that, you know, I can't definitively say, but I do know that when I talk to certain people, I wouldn't, you know, I'd talk to them on encrypted apps. But this one particular person, the phone would always drop out or something would happen. It was strange. And he actually said to me, oh, they're probably listening to us, you know. And then other, like, law enforcement style people, you know, I'd meet them. at like a location where we wouldn't be seen, but they were very paranoid about being seen with me and about talking to me because they told me for sure

that I was being surveilled. I don't know if that's true or not. And then I know a couple of times I would go and meet Devon Archer, who I can now talk about. He was Hunter Biden's former business partner has been pardoned by Donald Trump. But he was for a long time a sort of undercover source, which he's quite happy for me to say now,

And we would meet regularly at various places, but one particular place we would meet that was sort of like at the very back of this sort of cafe place that was dark and no one could see you. And I just felt a couple of times when I would be walking there that there were people following me. So I don't know if that's right or not. I just could be paranoid. ultimately, you know, I was warned, you know, to be watch out for certain things. They never came to pass. So, and I think now that, you know, the Biden people are no longer in office, I can breathe a bit of a sigh of relief.

But honestly, nothing bad happened. Thank goodness. We learned so much from all of that reporting. And before I let you go, Miranda, I have one question. It's a big question to end on, admittedly. But you sort of understand Trump world. You understand the New York City that he comes from and that his social circle comes from. So what is your sense of the truth about the Epstein-Trump relationship?

I know, again, that's a really big question, but just as an observer of him, his social circle, what do you think actually that relationship was like? Is it as simple as what we see on the surface? Look, I haven't seen anything that would say otherwise. and honestly, Trump is not a very good liar. And his sort of annoyance with this story that's, you know, sort of bringing him back into another big conspiracy and that's why he talks about it as a hoax

that he's being dragged into the centre of it. I think it is, as he has said, and as other people have told me, including, you know, lawyers for, some of the victims involved. I went to the courthouse in Lower Manhattan after Jeffrey Epstein died, however he did, in jail, and he was supposed to turn up for a trial. And so his victims felt cheated of the opportunity to confront him. And so the judge very kindly allowed them to come to court to that same courtroom.

And one after one I watched as they or their lawyers stood up and sort of gave the evidence that they would have given about Jeffrey Epstein. And, you know, I mean, it was all about Jeffrey Epstein. And so, and they did talk, a couple of them talked, like that poor girl who went to Australia, whose name, I'm a term. Virginia Gutray. Virginia, Guvray, yeah. She talked about, you know, rich and powerful people.

that preyed on her. And we know Prince Andrew has been alleged to be one of those and did settle with her for princely sum. So, you know, that is a tragedy, but I don't see any evidence that drags Donald Trump into it other than like so many rich and powerful and influential people in New York. And in fact, around the country at that time

when Jeffrey Epstein was riding high. he knew him. And, you know, Jeffrey Ops team would have dinner parties. He would go to parties. He was a man about town. He seemed to have a relationship with Gilaean Maxwell that was, you know, like a regular boyfriend, girlfriend, partner sort of thing. And, and I mean, Donald Trump has said, oh, Jeffrey liked the girls and he liked them young. and he denies emphatically that he wrote that letter that the Wall Street Journal claimed he wrote,

and that's a subject of a lawsuit now. You know, I guess the truth of that will come out in the wash. But I just think he was ahead of everyone else in rejecting Epstein, because he threw him out of Mar-a-Lago. You know, on the one hand, we're told because he was a creep and was coming on to the daughter of a member, who was a friend of Donald Trump's, the young underage daughter,

and being disgusting. And also, Donald Trump apparently had some sort of a contest with him for a block of land in Palm Beach and was annoyed that the price got pushed up because Jeffrey Epstein wouldn't give up and go away. And so for whatever reason it was, he threw him out of Maralago and had, had no more contact with him.

And that was before he was charged with, you know, the sex trafficking. He ended up a sweetheart deal, but it was over his sexually abusing these underage girls. And, you know, the fact was there were many people, including Prince Andrew, and Bill Gates, who maintained a relationship with Epstein after he was a convicted child molestine. and on a list as such. So I just think Donald Trump's kind of blameless in all of this other than like a lot of other famous people in New York around that time.

He knew him. It's a pretty small world in New York in those circles. Yeah, New York billionaires. Yeah. It's a small circle. Well, Miranda, I could talk to you for five hours and still have plenty of questions. So this is amazing. Podforce won.

What a start to that podcast. everybody go listen to it. You already are, but go listen to whatever you're not, and read every Miranda Divine Calm at the New York Post if you want to know what's going on in Trump World. Miranda, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Emily. You're a darling. Very nice to talk to you. Of course. Now, let me tell you about masa chips because I literally just bought some more of them two hours ago. I'm not making that up. The first ones they sent me for free. And I'm seeing my parents this weekend. Once again, shout out mom and dad. I did buy you these monster chips because you need to know how good

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released just in the last week, and I think are fairly shocking. So this is the F5. Young adults' personalities are changing with conscientiousness in a free fall. Look at that. So these are different traits. And the Financial Times here is citing research, the Understanding America study, and this is Financial Times' analysis of it. That's the relative change and strength of different personality traits by age group. So if you look at what's happened with the youngest Americans, so 16 to 39, not just teenagers, but from 2014 to 24, so over about a decade, you see plunging on conscientiousness, you see a skyrocketing in neuroticism, you see a decline in agreeableness and a decline in extraversion. If we go to F6, the question the Financial Times asks, is the digital world

out-competing real-world commitment. Well, among again, people under 40, between 16 and 39, you see a plunging on the marker of people making plans and following through. You see plunging on persevering until finished and is skyrocketing and people being easily distracted. And whether people can be careless. Again, you see younger Americans outpacing older demographics with a rise and whether or not they're careless. Now, extroversion and trust, this is F7, are also in decline among younger Americans. Actually, everyone, and I just want to emphasize how important it is, that we're basically seeing all of these trends across the board rise or fall

across the board in the wrong direction. So it is outgoing. That's a decline across age groups, but especially among the 16 to 39 demographic, is helpful to others declining among the, 16 to 39 is trusting declining among 16 to 39 declined overall as well and starts arguments. That's up a little bit more modestly, but up among younger people and declining in general as, or I'm sorry, actually this one you see a little bit of a difference with older people. It actually is declining overall, but with the middle aged and the younger people on the rise.

So these statistics are, we're beyond the point of a canary in the coal mine. And I think what's really, really important that these emphasize, and of course it's just another article that you'll read and throw away, right? Because such as the nature of digital media, it's not like a print. It feels so much more ephemeral. It goes into your mind and then out. Maybe you absorb it briefly. But you scroll sort of, it scrolls into your memory,

just like it scrolls across your eyesight. And, you know, these charts came out, I think it was the same day that I was watching this video that made me incredibly sad. This is a young man who is pretty much exactly on point about the problems his generation faces. Now, I have not validated his claims. What I'm using this clip for, and we're about to roll it in just one moment, is as a representative sampling of how, of a genre that's taken off on TikTok, definitely on Instagram. You see them reposted on Twitter, but it's a very particular genre among younger Americans. This is not the only video. There are many of these every single day, which is sad, but let's roll S-12.

They tell us to stop eating out and wrench $2,000 a month. Oh, save for retirement, and yet you can barely save for next week. Go buy a house. Every house is half a million brother. I'm not asking for a handout, man. We're asking for a freaking fair shot at life. Our parents did not work harder than we work right now. They were simply just given a better chance. Their wages covered their lives, their bills, their hobbies, their passions. Our wages barely cover our freaking bills for the month, dude. No amount of budgeting can ever fix a system designed to keep us down. We're doing the best that we can, and yet it feels. like the outcome has already been decided.

So a couple of the hashtags on that video were like hashtag viral, hashtag follow me. And he's not wrong. I mean, I'm completely sympathetic to the economic and cultural argument that he makes in the video. What I think is worth pausing and considering, when we view that video through the lens of these numbers, younger people declining or rising in neuroticism, declining in agreeableness, declining an extraversion,

that young man is talking to the internet. And that's frightening because we on this show cover a lot the Marshall McLuhan quote about how the medium is the message, right? And how that's often used in a much flat or simpler way than people realize what it means is that these new vehicles of communication. And McLuhan did not live to see TikTok. Thank God for him. But the mediums themselves change what's being said. They're not just different vehicles. You know, it's not like, oh, the message is getting out to the people faster. That's not it. I mean, that may be true. And it definitely is in the case of Twitter or X, whatever we're calling it. It's definitely true. But the medium is fundamentally changing the way that we talk about these things. So if you are a

young person who feels like you don't have a lot of male friends, male loneliness is on the line, is on the rise. Great example. There are stats on how male college grads have just about the same unemployment level as male men without four-year degrees. There was a new story on that recently, actually. So you feel like the playing field is not fair. It's not. I hear it, and it should be changed.

Absolutely. No question about it. We need policy changes. We need cultural changes. What we probably don't need. is more young men complaining about their personal financial circumstances on the internet. Now, I don't know him and I don't know his story. All of that is true. But what I do think about a lot is how big tech isolates us so much that people then feel like their only option is to give big tech more engagement, right?

Because these algorithms prize strong emotions. And the more isolated you are, the more alienated you are, the more lonely you are, in a lot of cases because of these technologies, which I think it's pretty hard to disagree with the correlation. I mean, we'll get more and more science on this. We're playing out this experiment in real time. But looking at spiking levels of neuroticism among people who are, you know, younger people who are more exposed to these technologies over the last decade, declines in agreeableness, declines in extroversion, declines in making plans of following through and perseverance, rises in distraction, easily distractedness. carelessness. I mean, that's what this is doing was. And the more that we use these mediums as mediators for our politics and personal lives, the more power that we're actually giving to TikTok and big tech. I mean, the hashtag on that video gutted me when I saw that it apparently

was uploaded with the hashtag viral. And hashtag follow me. That's incredibly depressing. That's incredibly depressing. I don't know if this young man is like many other young men and feels like he doesn't have someone to talk to. We've discussed on the show a couple of times, recent New York Times up ads, talking about how women feel like they're now shouldering more of an emotional burden of having to listen to their boyfriends and husbands, which is obviously just part of being in a relationship or a marriage. Think of what that's doing to men. On top of the difficult circumstances, that they already find themselves in socioeconomically. So I'm not, you know, obsessive over bootstraps philosophy, right?

Like pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. I think there do need to be, I think that's absolutely virtuous. I don't think it's virtuous as a public policy. I think that we should shape our economy and our culture consciously to be the, to enable prosperity and to give people the best shot that they possibly can at thriving in this country and making this country strong. I don't think complaining about things being unfair on social media is a particularly constructive way. If it's the only way that we go about it, I'm one of the few people who gets paid to do it, which is slightly different. I think journalists are mentally

unwell for a reason, and that's because you do actually, if you're an opinion journalist, opine and complain in public often. So I would say take a lesson from the misery of your average journalist and don't treat your life the same way by publishing opinions that you're not getting paid for unless you feel like you're getting paid for the false affirmation that comes through likes, retweets, clicks. And just remember that the algorithm is set up to make you play the game where the stronger your emotion or the more your emotion is poured into a mold, right? The algorithm is the mold,

right? It's like you're making a soap or I guess jello. Let's sick with soap. Less disgusting. It's like you're making a soap, right? And the algorithm is the mold. You're just pouring the emotion into it because you've been told what is going to be hashtag viral, to use the example of that video again. All the empathy in the world for this young man, I'm not blaming him for anything in particular, but I do worry that these algorithms seem to increasingly be rewarding, for good reason, because it resonates with people, and it creates engagement, but rewarding something that's very unhealthy,

which is, you know, I think the most empowering thing that people can do is to stop trying to change the world by starting globally. and like trying to take the shortcut to changing the world because these technologies also trick us into thinking it's very easy to have global power. It's easy to reach people on a global basis, but so actually have power and to make change is different. And one of the most empowering things,

I think there's social science that backs it up too, is just to start in your own community. Start with your family. Start with your friends. Start with your church. You know, you don't have to go, to go volunteer at the Boys and Girls Club, although that's probably a lovely thing to do. Start by caring more about your family than yourself to the extent that you can.

Start by just getting on your own head and trying to make the tiny little world around you a better place. And that's more empowering. I mean, not only I do, I think it's probably more constructive in many cases, but it's also more empowering, and that's the building block to keep going further and further out. So, yeah, just I don't like when I see those things because I think that There's also social science on this, by the way. There's studies that back this up, that the more that we see ourselves as victims,

and I think these algorithms incentivize seeing ourselves as victims, the more powerless we feel and the more miserable we are. And so if you feel like the incentive on the algorithm is ever pushing you into a victim mentality, it can be true that you are a victim of an unfair system, and also true that it's deeply unhealthy to focus on your victimhood, rather than empowering yourself. You don't have to deny your victimhood.

You don't have to deny that the system is unfair. In fact, it's important to acknowledge that the system is unfair, but it's probably not making you happier to dwell on it. So lead with that in your communications. If you must make TikTok videos about all of this, I would just say it's better for your health

to lead with that. It's better for the world to lead with that, and it's better for your community. It's better for your family and your friends. if you can start reframing it to think about empowering yourself and not sort of dwelling in that realm of victimhood that is just giving big tech more engagement and more clicks and more reason to alienate and isolate us.

Boy, do I have a fun example of brain rot, the brain rot of social media. I'm so excited about this one. Guys, we got a roll. We got a roll. First of all, let's put on the screen F4. This is Chris Cuomo, Newsman, America's sweetheart, many have said. He is over at News Nation, fell for an incredible deep fake that looked nothing. We're going to play it in just a second.

But the idea that this was actually Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, as much as, you know, you may think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is clownish or silly, this deep fake was incredible. And Chris Cuomo responded to it. By criticizing AOC for not mentioning a condemnation of Hamas in this fake video, AOC responded, this is a deep fake dude, please use your critical thinking skills, and momentarily, briefly, fleetingly, the entire country was cheering on Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez and her skirmish with one Christopher Cuomo.

So to get a flavor of how profoundly stupid this was, let's go ahead and roll the clip that Chris Cuomo thought he was reacting to as to. nine. Sydney Sweeney looks like an Aryan goddess and the American Eagle jeans campaign is blatant Nazi propaganda. I mean, fun watching that sultry little temptress. This is on the house floor in a deep fake.

Three sizes too small with her bouncy little fun bags on the screen staring at you, piercing through the core of your soul with those ocean blue eyes that could resurrect the furor from his grave in Argentina. That was my favorite part. Instead of simping for the Sydney's, we should be celebrating the Shanique was. Instead of worshipping the hot, straight blonde, what about the obese alphabet, people with blue hair? They need love too. And to all the haters who say companies that go woke, go broke, I'd rather be poor than a fucking Nazi.

I don't even know what to say. If you were watching it, you could visually see that Alexander Ocazza-Cortez was looked cartooning. exactly like a deep fake. Cuomo responded, I was wrong, but it did sound like something you would say. I'm paraphrasing him, but that's basically verbatim how he responded. And I'd like to know which part of that he thought was something that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would say. Was it resurrecting the furor from his Argentinian grave? Was it the part about Chiniqua? The fun bags? Was it that part that sounded like something Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez feminist would say on the floor of the House of Representatives? What must have happened to, again, this man's brain to get from point A to point B, we can barely begin to comprehend.

This is a man that CNN was putting millions of dollars behind. Not long ago during Trump won. This was one of CNN's stars. He was a bona fide media heavyweight. And he fell for something most people's grandmothers would know was fake. Not only did he fall for it, he posted, he proudly, confidently published a response implying that he fell for it, showing everyone that he fell for it. That's how badly he fell for it.

and I don't think we should lose sight of that. It wasn't as though you were at a coffee bar with Chris Cuomo scrolling, and he saw that, and he was like, oh, it sounds like something she would say. Wow. No, no, no. This man saw the video, and then he posted about the video

because he was so convinced that it was real he needed to respond. This is your brain on social media. I don't know, maybe it was always this way. Maybe Chris Cuomo is about. example. Maybe the sample is off. I'm no social scientist, but I'm open to that idea. This is not a fair experiment because our sample is tainted in this case by Chris Cuomo being Chris Cuomo, always being Chris Cuomo. But again, I don't think most people's grandmothers would be followed

by that deep fake. Some would. Most people's would not. I mean, just incredible stuff. It's breaking all of our brains. Even I don't think Chris Cuomo has always been, well, people are probably going to correct me. Maybe people who have known Chris Cuomo for years are going to say, yeah, he would have fallen for that in 1994. I don't know, though. This is breaking our brains. But it's an interesting example of how the Sweeney discourse in particular reflected some of our our brokenness, the New York Times had a wild look. I'm going to put this on the screen. A wild look where it tried to kind of do an autopsy

of how this story became viral. If you read the New York Times story, this is Tom Bevan, our friend, he says, New York Times goes with the blatantly false pod bro narrative referring to Pod Save America, that the Sydney-Sweeney controversy was a whole concoction of the right. And he talked about it with Megynie. on her show last week. And if you read the New York Times story, it's wild. I posted about this, too.

It uses a study that shows the discourse was totally stric-sanded on Twitter, on X, meaning that the criticism to the response made that response go viral in itself. So the rights criticism of the left's criticism of the ad, we're getting real meta here, but the rights criticism of the left's taking offense at that ad is what made the people who took offense at that ad go viral on X. Well, guess what? X is not TikTok. And guess what else?

TikTok is much more popular. So if you scroll down in the New York Times story, you realize they say there were a few very viral posts on TikTok from liberals who took offense at what was going on with Sidney Sweeney in the ad. This is in the New York Times story that is framed as a rebuttal to the conservative narrative that legitimately people on the left were offended by the Sydney Sweeney ad. Do I think some of it was overstated?

Absolutely. But were viral posts actually making their way around social media suggesting people on the left were legitimately angry, the types of people who post on TikTok? Again, not a representative sample size of the public, but of the capital O, capital L online left. That was absolutely happened. And the New York Times rebuts it in their own story on Sweeneygate. And it's just incredible that no editor took the time to be like, whoa, this is what editors are for, by the way.

You get over your skis, you think you've really nailed it. And you have all the evidence in your ducks in row. And the editor's like, this doesn't say what you're saying that it says. And we're talking about the New York Times that's now trying to fundamentally change itself and transform back into the paper of record that will fairly cover power, hold power to account and the like. I mean, in their own story, they're rebutting the part of their headline, how the right shaped the debate over the Sydney-Sweeney ads.

The debate was shaped out of the gate. I mean, this is semantics. Technically, you can say the stories about how the right shaped the Sydney-Sweeney debate. The implication of the entire story is that it was all stric-handed, right? This was mostly the right being upset about a tiny, tiny, tiny, amount, like the Wright created the controversy over the Sydney Sweeney ad and is overstating the degree to which people were really offended by this.

I think it's true that because the right latched on of this, realizing it was good, I mean, J.D. Vance was talking about it, realizing that it was sort of a political winner for the right to look like they were standing up for a popular young celebrity like Sydney Sweeney, because of that, there was more attention that probably needed to be given to the Sydney Sweeney story. But they were responding to actually real outrage and offense on the left. And this brings me to a series of viral clips. So we have one here

that's gone really viral on the left from Mark Marron, comedian Mark Maron, super popular podcast, very successful. And also this conversation between Bill Marr and Drew Barrymore because why wouldn't Bill Marr be talking to Drew Barrymore on a podcast called Club Random? It's all in the name. Let's start with Mark Marron, though. Let's roll S-7. This was him on Howie Mandel's podcast. It was published on August 5th. And he had some thoughts on, it sounds like what he's talking about is the podcast bros, like the Joe Rogans and the Andrew Schultz's.

You can kind of decide for yourself, fill in the blank here, but this is Mark Marin. You know, to be in a fucking club where, you know, I walking down the hall at the comedy club at the comedy store. And, you know, in one room, someone's doing their bit about trans people. And then I get down the hall and there's someone on stage going, well, I guess I got to do my bit about trans people. Like, no, you don't. You don't. It's hack now. I mean, you know, you guys got the freedom you wanted. You can now say whatever you want. They're defeated. The rights are been denied.

The policies that you guys encouraged, which are your stupid material, are now policy. And now, like, you know, half the people under the umbrella of anti-woke, we've lost a tremendous. this amount of democratic leaning ideas and movements. So whether they knew it or not, that's what they were spearheading. So now it's reality and you want to still keep kicking them? I don't know that the comedians have had that much power. Are you fucking out of your mind? No, I'm being sure.

I'm not going to. No, go ahead. You know, you can't, you can't separate. Like if the movement is like, you know, we're being censored. No, you're not. You're not. Okay, so it's the fault of the podcasters, of course, that the policies of the Trump administration on transports in particular

are, from my perspective, of course, good for women. You know, I actually agree with Mark Marin on the power of comedians and podcasters. Let's roll just to sort of get a kind of, I think, contradictory. Maybe you'll disagree with me and say these aren't mutually exclusive, but let's get this reaction from the club random episode that was posted today of this is like a Stefan sketch. It has everything. Drew Barrymore, Bill Maher, people who think they're a different sex. S8, let's roll it. You have a lot of bravado about what you think is the truth or not, but it's just so refreshing. Like, you were doing this before it was so dangerous.

Still dangerous. And it is just way too dangerous now, but you're still doing it. It's slightly less dangerous than it was two years ago because we did have a vibe change. And because the Democrats lost so badly in 2024, the blushes off the rose on left-wing censorship and, oh, my God, you can't say that. Stop telling me what I can do. what I can say, what I can think, who my heroes are supposed to be. Just, you know, just get the fuck off for me. Drew Barrymore is just a fascinating person from the start of her life to where she is now.

And I think it's easy to categorize her as quote-unquote woke. I mean, remember when she was like cross-legged on the couch saying that it was time or the country wanted Kamala to be Mamala, one of the worst clips in the history of television. It haunts me to this very day. But this is also the woman who married Tom Green. So I can't tell him, I'm altogether shocked to see Drew Barrymore sitting face-to-face with Bill Maher, calling his sort of adroodox comedy or anti-wote comedy refreshing, saying that he's a bravado about telling the truth. But where does this leave us with Mark Marin? I mean, it's no surprise that Bill Maher and Mark Maron agree on what you can and can't say or whether it's a little hackney.

to say certain things about sex and gender. But what Mark Marin said was that attack need, right? Because it's all happened. You're not kind of marginalized if you have that opinion anymore. And what Bill Maher said was that it's still dangerous. So can both of these things be true at the same time? Or are Mark Merrin and Bill Maher, like basically living in different worlds? I think sometimes Bill Maher has this sense of satisfaction about making points that

he lives in a Hollywood bubble. If you say it at a bar in Cleveland, it's not really that brave. And if you say it at a bar anywhere outside of like West Hollywood and Manhattan, you're probably okay. But this is what, to me, gets maybe swept under the rug a little bit when we talk about the vibe shift. Yes, it's happened. I agree with Billmore that it's slightly less dangerous. I agree that it's happened. I agree with Mark Marin.

that those comedians had a lot of power, and they changed, I guess, the incentive structure as to whether it was okay to make certain jokes or to say certain things because we all remember what it was like in the lead up to 2020. I mean, you could say nothing unless you wanted that to become your new identity, right?

If you wanted your identity, like Martina Navratilova, for example, to become that you are, what I would say, is pro-woman, but what others would say is anti-trans, what most of the media would say is anti-trans, that's what's going to happen if you say something. That will become your entire media identity, your cultural identity.

You will get more followers, of course. We're thinking back to like 2018, even earlier than that. Yeah, I mean, that's going to happen. We can think of a million examples of people who dare to say one thing. Gina Carrano, you know, it was on Mandalorian, was just the biggest show at the time and said, you know,

posted one like boomer meme and had her life blown up. And that became her entire identity in the media. And in the sort of culture, it was like this is somebody who's, you know, fascist or whatever. So that's different now. But what we forget,

and I think back to some of the early episodes of this show, I was the Aspen Institute, and I remember coming on that night, live from Aspen, saying, I'm telling you, these attitudes that are classified as woke, these ideologies, the sentiment, is still alive and well with a significant amount of particularly millennials who this was their worldview. And this is what they were taught, was right and wrong. And especially, you know, as social media continues to rot our brains, we are adrift in looking for a sense of purpose and meaning,

and it's very easy to find it where, particularly, the algorithms nudge us in these sort of strong emotional directions. We're pouring ourselves into these molds. And that happened in formative years for many, many millennials. Some people in Gen Z too. Gen Z was kind of forged in the fire of the pre-imposed vibe shift. and actually nudge the vibe shift right along by disagreeing with certain things.

But that's not going anywhere. So, yeah, I think Bill Maher's right, that it's less dangerous. And I suppose I think that Mark Mariner's right, that sometimes it does get hackneyed because among comedians, they did kind of win the sort of top line culture war. But we don't have a monoculture anymore.

We don't. We don't have a monoculture. We have scraps of monoculture, but we don't have those touchstones. We don't have the same experience of sitting down as a country and watching Ronald Reagan talk about the Challenger or learning new facts about what had just happened to John F. Kennedy in real time while you're watching Walter Cronkite or Den rather report from Dallas. We don't have those experiences anymore for better or worse.

about the better and the worst here all the time, but we don't have it. So we're living basically in different microcultures. And there's still a sort of overarching macroculture. We all know the president's Donald Trump, for the most part. We all know the president's Donald Trump. We all know, you know, certain, like pretty much everyone probably remembers the backstreet boys. I don't know. This is just right off the dome. But we don't share the same. We don't have it the same pop cultural house anymore. We're in the same neighborhood. We're in the same country, but we're not in the same house.

And so what they're both saying, I don't think they can't both be true for the macroculture, but they're true about their own micropultures. And that's where we're headed. I think that's a good glimpse at where we're headed. Speaking of microculture, by the way, before I go, because I have to watch below deck. I've got to get that off the, get that off the TiVo and find out what's happening with the crew, because those crazy kids are up to a lot of mischief this season. I did want to go over, no spoilers, of course,

because if you have not caught up with the Gilded Age finale, I don't want to be the person who ruins that for you because it was spectacular. Are you watching the Gilded Age? You might not be watching the Gilded Age. Nobody's watching Gilded Age. I swear, we started it like right away when it first came, And it felt like it wasn't even in a microculture. Like nobody, it seemed like nobody was watching it.

But apparently people were. And so it built and built. And finally it was sort of in the meme universe last season and then exploded in the meme universe this season. And you can let me know, which is correct. But I just have a question whether we are calling him train daddy. This is George from Gilded Age. Are we calling it?

Is he train daddy or is he railroad daddy? Because like this is the problem with microture is that some people, and if you're listening to this, I'm putting memes up on the screen about railroad daddy and train daddy. But nobody seems to have settled on whether George Russell is train daddy or railroad daddy. And I think there's a really big difference between calling him train daddy and railroad daddy. So you can let me know if you have thoughts on this. One thing everybody seems to agree on is that Jack is called clock twink. I know some of you probably have thoughts on that, but Jack is called clock twink. That seems to be canon at this point.

Even the cast is referring to him as clock twink. So just a lot to stew on as we await another season. It has been renewed. Those are my thoughts. I mean, I could keep going on Gilded Age. Molly Jung Fast wrote an incredibly stupid piece in the New York Times about how it was just like the most knee-jerk, superficial reaction to the Gilded Age. It was like someone smashed together, like you're playing liberal bingo and you smash together Trump building a new ballroom with the Gilded Age season finale. And you have this knee-jerk superficial commentary on Donald Trump is a robber,

Barron because he likes gold. It's just incredible work for Malajong Fast in the New York Times because, you know, actually there is something interesting about Donald Trump sort of being this supposed titan of industry and stepping into the presidency at when you look at the explosion in social media and the valuations of these tech companies, what economically does genuinely look like a parallel to the Gilded Age that we talk about when we talk about Gilded Age. I don't know if Trump is trained outy or clock twink. There's a lot to learn in the days and months ahead.

But it's an actual parallel. You can actually say something about it, but it's so much more interesting than just Donald Trump likes gold and is therefore a robber baron who wants to, you know, bring back murderous union strike breakers. Maybe we'll do this on the next episode. But this was really just supposed to be me asking whether it's railroad daddy or train daddy. But of course, couldn't let the Molly Jong Fast column go.

Could I couldn't let that go unanswered here on after party? That's the brave journalism that we do. I'll table that for Wednesday. But, you know, the point remains. It's just, it is what it is. All right, as a reminder, you can maybe let me know, weigh in. Railroad Daddy or Train Daddy. That's Emily at Devil Make Care Media.com, a dangerous question to post to the audience.

Maybe don't wait in on that, but you can email me and answer most of your emails. I try to, at least, I have lots of fun with it. So Emily at Devil Makeare Media.com, we will be back here on Wednesday, live at 10 p.m. Eastern. Catch us on YouTube live. It's so much fun or catch us afterwards. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast, subscribe on YouTube. And we'll be back Wednesday, 10 p.m. with more after party.