After Party with Emily Jashinsky - Trump Talks Third Term, Disaffected Young Men, and KJP's Terrible Media Tour, with Shelby Talcott and Andrew Klavan

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

Emily Jashinsky is joined by Semafor White House Correspondent Shelby Talcott to discuss speculation President Trump could seek a third term and the new report that says the Trump administration’s Venezuelan boat strikes are justified. Then Emily is joined by Andrew Klavan, host of "The Andrew Klavan Show" and author of the brand-new book “After That, the Dark.” The pair have an in-depth conversation about how Hollywood and publishing try to prevent white men from making a living, they also dive into Tucker Carlson’s new interview with Nick Fuentes, the troubles facing young men in America and how they can overcome them, why the left has gotten so much wrong, and more.  Then Emily takes a hilarious look at former White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre’s terrible book tour, and why former Vice President Kamala Harris’ recent interview may be even worse. Emily also discusses the new interview with American Eagle’s Chief Marketing Officer who explained the company’s brilliant strategy to ignore the haters. Emily wraps up the show with a behind the scenes look at The Megyn Kelly Live tour. Unplugged: Switching is simple, Visit https://Unplugged.com/EMILY  and order your UP phone today! Aware House: Visit https://awarehouseshop.com/discount/PARTY  & use code PARTY for 15% off your first order. Cowboy Colostrum: Get 25% Off Cowboy Colostrum with code AFTERPARTY at https://www.cowboycolostrum.com/AFTERPARTY  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to After Party. Happy Monday, everyone. I'm back from San Antonio, and if you stick around for the whole show, you're going to get some behind the scenes details, some behind the scenes pictures. It's going to be a blast. So make sure you stick around for that. It was a blast being on the Megan Kelly tour. I think there's tickets still available over at Megan Kelly.com for the next leg. I'm so excited. Even the videos that are coming out from all of the stops are a blast to watch. They've been super fascinating. The live format is totally different. interacting with the crowd. I mean, all of you who came out, it was incredible just to be in person, to meet Glenn in person for the first time, talked to him a bunch of times, and to be there when Glenn and Megan met in person for the first time. It was awesome. So stick around for the end of the show to get some behind the scenes. Details on our tour stop in San Antonio. The video is now up on the Megan Kelly channel. We're joined tonight by Shelby Talkout and Andrew Clayton, going to bring Shelby in in just one moment. We're going to talk about Donald Trump actually addressing the chatter about whether he's planning to run for a third term. Legal justifications

that might be flying around the executive branch over strikes off the coast of Venezuela. An incredible damning new survey that leading Democrats put together about their party's problems. New comments from Gavin Newsom, Karin-Jean Pierre, and Kamala Harris, a beautiful trio. They are just proving the point of of that giant survey I just mentioned. And actually, before we went to air, Tucker Carlson dropped a long conversation with Nick Fuentes. So I am gonna get Andrew's reaction to one part of it as it relates to men and colleges,

because there was an Atlantic article on what's happening in college campuses that I think Andrew will have some great insights into. And some new updates, believe it or not, this is gonna feel like a summer throwback. It's October people. We're still talking about Sidney Sweeney and American Eagle.

Actually, I have a pretty interesting clip from the CEO of American Eagle talking about, reflecting on what happened and why the company did not cave to all of the different pressures, what was happening actually in their own C-suite level, some great stuff to come. So before I dive into all of that, let me just bring in, well, first, subscribe. I'm so bad at plugging the show, but you need to subscribe. If you haven't subscribed. I just, I forget because there's so many generous people with their subscriptions. But make sure to subscribe on the podcast format, subscribe on YouTube if you haven't yet. It helps us a lot. We appreciate it. And man, do we have some good guests coming up in the near

future. So subscribe. And speaking of our great guests, let's go ahead and bring in Shelby Talcott, who is the Semaphore White House correspondent and one of our favorites here at After Party. Shelby Talcott, welcome back. Thanks for having me. I want to start. start with Donald Trump talking about actually addressing rumors that he might run for a third term. And this most recent wave of speculation kicked off after Steve Bannon sat for an interview and said this. Let's roll S one. Well, he's going to get a third term. So Trump 28, Trump is going to be president 28, and people just ought to get accommodated with that.

So what about the 22nd Amendment? There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, we'll lay out what the plan is. But there's a plan, and President Trump will be the president in 28. We had longer odds in 16 and longer odds in 24 than we got in 28. And President Trump will be the President of the United States, and the country needs him to be President of the United States. We have to finish what we started.

All right, so that was a conversation with the economist. Let's rule now S2, Donald Trump, addressing this wave of speculation. himself. No, you'd be allowed to do that, but I wouldn't want, I wouldn't do it. I think it's too cute. Yeah, I wouldn't rule that out because it's too cute. I think the people wouldn't like that. It's too cute. It's not, it wouldn't be right. Shelby, there he was addressing the possibility that some have raised. J.D. Vance might run at the top of the ticket with Donald Trump in the vice presidential slot and then Trump jumps in. So with Bannon coming out in front, saying that in the economist, Donald Trump addressing the speculation, directly saying, I would love to serve a third term, but we'll have to see, essentially, and then weighing in on his potential successors, what the heck is going on? It is your job to know this, Shelby. Tell us. I mean, I think that this is all sort of trolling from Donald Trump. I mean, if he ran for a third term, forget about the sort of legal issues that it would raise, but he would be, what, 82 years old? At that point, I think that he says these things in part

to sort of rile up the media and Democrats. But everybody I talked to inside of his orbit when I've asked about this, because this has been a longstanding thing throughout this entire administration, right? Throughout this past year, he's been asked about it multiple times. There's been the idea raised.

First of all, I do think Steve Bannon genuinely thinks that Donald Trump is going to run for a third term. I personally disagree with him. Maybe he knows something that I don't. But whenever I bring it up to people in Trump's orbit, they kind of just like laugh about it. And I really think it's just something that they like to use to rile up the media and Democrats. I just, I can't see it happening. Shelby, of course, everyone is reacting with calm and sobriety, especially over on The View. Let's roll this clip from the view of them

reacting to all of this because I think it kind of makes your point. Listen, there's certain people in Trump's orbit who, when they tell you what they're going to do, I really listen, and I would put Steve Bannon at the top of this list. Alyssa would know. I have come to the conclusion that he is most definitely going to try to remain in power, because remember, that East Wing, it's going to take a long time to build that. He's hooking up the White House because he doesn't plan on leaving it. I don't think he said that.

I've told you all that years ago. Yeah, he did it. He was not going to. He said it. He said, I want to be president for life. Yeah. I heard him saying, I watched his last. lips move and I thought, he means this. This is a guy who's got authoritarian envy.

He goes around to these countries and he loves the, you know, he wants the parades, he wants the arches, he wants the ballrooms, he wants to be an emperor, he wants to be an authoritarian. Paying no attention to the Constitution, that's the way Ortega does it, that's the way Chavez did it, that's the way Maduro does it, that's the way Putin does it. Putin's been around forever. Okay, so Chavez, Maduro, and Putin in, that claim from Anna Navarro, but Shelby, actually, I wanted to see if you might address something that Whoopi Goldberg said, actually was Sonny Hosten and Whoopi Goldberg about the ballroom.

My interpretation about the ballroom, actually, is that he's rushing. He didn't go through the approval processes because he wants to put his mark on the building itself, the structure, before he leaves the White House. Is that fair? Are you hearing anything similar to that? Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And I've had Trump official and people close to him tell me as much. I mean, this isn't, the ballroom isn't also the first thing that he's done to make his mark, right? He started with the Rose Garden. He paved it over.

Now when we go back there, it's sort of, he did that very quickly. You would know that. That was within, I don't know, once the construction started, it was done in like a month. It was done very quickly. And so I think that, I think that you're right. This is sort of him expanding on he wants to be a president that leaves a mark and not just physically in the White House, but also with everything he's doing, right? He's made it very clear that he wants to get the Nobel Peace Prize.

He's doing things with the intention and the speed of somebody who is not thinking that he's going to be around for an additional term, right? You think about the first several months of this Trump administration, how fast everything moved. That's because, and I've had Trump administration officials tell us this, they're thinking of this term, his last term, as two years, not four years, because who knows what happens after the midterms, who knows if they have the House, who knows if they have the Senate, it might become much more difficult for him to get things done. And so I think all of that sort of supports the

idea that when Donald Trump sort of hems and haws about whether or not he's going to run for a third term, he just, he likes causing the drama and the speculation. Yeah, which by the way, I know you're a reporter and you're not going to comment on it. I will say for the record, I personally hate the flirtation with the third term. But, you know, he does, this is actually a good segue to the next question, Shelby, is Bannon going out in front of Trump making this argument. He is a, you know, basically sees himself as a chess player in media and in politics and where media and politics overlap.

What is he doing? What do you think his strategy is in making this argument? Is he coordinating with Donald Trump? What's going on behind the scenes? You know, listen, I say all this with the acknowledgement that maybe I'm going to be wrong. And if that's the case, somebody can clip this. And in four years, be like, you guys were wrong. Yeah, you can clip it and say, I was wrong.

But, you know, I think also Steve Bannon sometimes tries to will things into existence, right? And because he is such a chess player, he knows how to play the game. He knows how to raise the drama, how to raise the stakes, how to bring a possibility. that people maybe weren't even thinking about to the forefront and have it become a conversation in any other circumstance, it wouldn't be a conversation. And again, maybe he knows something that none of us know. But I just think in all of my conversations with Trump officials and in everything that I've seen with this administration, this is more of a, you know, A, Donald Trump likes the drama that it causes. He also never likes to sort of rule things out.

regardless of how, you know, out of pocket it may be. You always hear him sort of hem and ha with almost every answer, right? Like, he rarely shoots things down officially. And so I see it kind of as Bannon trying to place those chest pieces and will it into existence. Okay. Now, speaking of Venezuelan dictators, the Trump administration is clearly in the middle of what could culminate in a regime change operation, but for now is certainly provocations outside. Off the coast of Venezuela, also CIA operations within Venezuela have been greenlit.

So, Shelby, there's so much debate right now happening about whether this is legal. Senator Rand Paul, Thomas Massey, others have expressed their concerns. Democrats have certainly expressed their concerns as we approach about, I think, 40 deaths over the last seven or eight weeks, according to the government on these strikes. They've provided very little information to substantiate their claims that, and that's by their own, I don't want to say admission, but that's kind of by their own logic. They're saying, trust us. We have an intel.

These are narco-terrorists. We are taking them out. And so, on the other hand, presidential war powers are extremely, extremely broad. And as much as people like a Rand Paul may not like what's happening, I did want to raise a fascinating substack piece from the Executive Functions substack. And this is quite an interesting argument. And I suspected something like this would surface sooner rather than later. So executive functions rights, many commenters have argued that the Trump administration's Venezuelan boat strikes are unlawful. Marty Lieberman, for example, maintains that the strike lacks any basis in

Article 2 and violates the assassination ban as well as the criminal murder prohibitions in the U.S. Code and Uniform Code of Military Addresses the Trump administration, though, has concluded otherwise Charlie Savage reports in the New York Times that, quote, and this is the key, the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, which Mr. Trump sidelined for most of the year until appointing an official lead in August as preparations for the attacks ramped up, has produced a memo, apparently blessing this campaign. So this classified unpublished memo is crucial inside the government because it confers a, quote, golden shield, as it's been called, of immunity from criminal prosecution on anyone who acts in reliance on it. So this is not the argument that the administration itself has

been making publicly, but it seems to have gotten into the New York Times Shelby. Is this sort of what's giving the administration comfort in the legality of their actions? Obviously, people can be prosecuted when there are illegal actions taken in the future. So is this, have you heard anything about this? What are you here? about how they're seeing the risks of proceeding a pace with this conflict. I think that there's a few aspects. First of all, this legal opinion certainly gives them a lot of cover in their minds, right? And it's actually been, this legal opinion has been sort of used to justify a lot of the other incidents, right? The Defense Department had a memo to lawmakers,

for example, that outlined the legal basis of these strikes. And it argued that the U.S. is in an armed conflict with the cartels. And reportedly, this memo leaned heavily on that opinion. And so you're seeing how this sort of this legal opinion is being used to justify everything else. And it's sort of the big dog at the top. And then everything else is falling underneath it. But I also think that when I talk to Trump administration officials about, this, I think that they believe that there's not going to be a significant amount of pushback.

And really so far, there hasn't been. The majority of Republicans are okay with what's happening, right? Even if they say, oh, we don't really love this, there hasn't been significant action to push back on the Trump administration. I think that's because the administration's argument is, well, what are you going to do? We're saying that these are drug boats. We're saying, that these are cartel members. If you push back on us, then you're essentially saying that you are for these drug boats or these drug cartel members, right? And so it's a really touchy subject for lawmakers. And I think that's part of the reason why we haven't seen more pushback. I mean, even there's some Democrats who are for these boat strikes. But certainly the legal opinion

and that substack article I found really interesting because it really laid out how it sort of gives cover for administration officials to move forward with these strikes? Yeah, and it's, you know, it's not from a pro-Trump perspective, hardly from a pro-Trump perspective, but lays out all of these other examples is when an OLC opinion, quote, blessing the operation eliminates the difficulty and immunizes the officer and everyone else who relies on it from subsequent punishment. So any military officials involved in the clearly legally controversial Venezuelan boat strikes must negotiate their twin duties of following a superior order and not following a patently illegal order and when you have this blessing, it's so in the weeds from the office of the legal

counsel and the New York Times reports it out. I don't know, Shelby, I just think it seems to suggest that the admin is very comfortable with the politics of the strike and actually that presidential war powers have become so broad that you can, you could kind of, it's sort of like the opposite of being able to prosecute a ham sandwich. You can prosecute the war version of a ham sandwich if you're the president. Yeah. Like you can find a way. Yeah.

I mean, again, and this substack lays it out pretty well, I think, as somebody who is obviously not a lawyer. But when I was reading, I'm not. This is what we brought you on here, Shelby, is a legal scholar. Constitutional lawyer. But it does seem to be so broad that the question is how would you, how would you be able to prosecute when you have essentially the U.S. government telling people.

legally you're okay to do this, right? And that's kind of one of the aspects of this substack is you have this government legal opinion, the top dog saying to lower level people, you're allowed to do this. You are legally justified in doing this, which then makes it very difficult to prosecute for it. So I do think that the Trump administration is extremely comfortable. And I also think that this is an example of the Trump administration really pushing the boundaries. And we've seen this in a lot of different ways, pushing the boundaries in terms of they know exactly what they want. They know the end goal. They know what they want to do. And this time around, compared to the first term, they have a lot more people who are allies of the president and who

are on board fully with what this administration is trying to do. And so you're seeing them use levers and push things to an extent that we really didn't see in the first administration. And I think this is a prime example. Last question, Shelby, there's a lot of reporting that much of this Venezuela effort is being fueled by Senator Marco Rubio. Is that what your sources say? A lot of this is coming from state, but actually particularly from Rubio himself. Yeah, I think it's no surprise. Marco Rubio has long had very strong opinions on Venezuela.

He has been open about how he feels about Nicholas Maduro. I also think Stephen Miller is extremely involved in sort of the, drug cartel aspect of it. And so you have multiple people on board, but you do have a whole group of Trump administration officials who are driving it. And I would say Rubio and Miller are sort of the two top dogs in this scenario. But the ultimate question, of course, is, is this really about drugs or is it about regime change, right?

And I have my opinions on that. I think we're going to find out. But certainly it seems like the administration is not going to continue to just strike by air. I think there's going to be escalations, certainly. Oh, interesting. Stephen Miller being involved certainly suggests that a regime change may be a situation where you're able to deport more Venezuelans as well, that that might be something on, why it would be a priority for him. That could possibly be the case, Shelby, if you have a friendly regime that isn't Nicolas Maduro,

you're able to say, we're landing the plane, more deportations. Maybe that has something to do with Miller's portfolio being involved. Yeah, I mean, I also think just the drug cartel aspect, the immigration aspect, all of that has brought his involvement into things. But certainly, Rubio is one of the people in the room when they're making these decisions. Like I was told a month or so ago, it's the VP, the president, Hegseth, Rubio. Those are the people in the room for a lot of the decision making on Venezuela. And what a lot of them have, they're all on board with what has been happening. And I think with when you're talking about regime change, you know, no one in the administration

has openly said, we want regime change. But they've made it very clear that they think that Nicholas Maduro is an illegitimate leader. They have essentially designated him as the head of this cartel unit, right, by saying, by tying him to the drug cartels. And so the question is, well, if all of that is true, then how can the administration in their mind allow him to remain as the Venezuelan leader? So we'll see on that, I guess. Yeah, that's a great point because then if they don't take action, a lot of questions follow afterwards. So Shelby Talcott, speaking of regime change, we're going to regime change our guests here. Shelby Talcott, White House. I was corresponding. It was so bad.

For 7 of 4, it's so great to have you here to tell us what's actually going on behind closed. Doors at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Thank you. Thanks. All right, Andrew Cleveland will be with us in just one moment. But first, have you ever noticed those very creepy ads that pop up on your phone and seem to know exactly where you've been, what you've bought, even what you've been talking about? You've probably asked yourself, is my phone monitoring me?

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Andrew, thanks for coming back. Emily, it's always good to see you. Hi. Yeah, tell us about this book that comes out tomorrow. I know you always write with the sort of, what's the best way to put it? Everything that's happening in the cultural climate in your mind. So tell us where this one comes from. Well, this is a book.

It starts out as a love story. The hero is a guy named Cameron Winter, who loves to solve mysteries, and he's going out with a girl. He's been working up his courage to call for a long time. They go out on a date, and she knows that he's interested in murder stories. So she tells him one. She tells him about a locked room murder mystery, and he, sort of to impress her, goes out to solve this impossible murder and finds he's broken open, this enormous conspiracy that

becomes very, very dangerous. And so it's a love story. It's a thriller. And it's also a whodunit. And, you know, it's always, it's very difficult when you are known as a political commentator to say, here's a novel I write. But in fact, I'm a novelist who's a political commentator. I'm not a political commentator who's a novelist.

I've been writing novels my whole life. And these are award-winning novels. And these have been best-selling novels. And I really hope, I really hope that people will go out and buy this book because they're going to love it. And it's gotten the greatest reviews I've had. in a long time, and I'm just really proud of it. So I think, I hope people will go out and take a look at it. I mean, it's just a brilliant plot, but you just sort of have described yourself

inadvertently. Well, maybe it was advertently as the reverse Stephen King, Andrew. The reverse Stephen King. You're the novelist. Yes. And he's the, yes, yes. It's always tough. I'm actually an admirer of Stephen King is a great, great storyteller. And every time he opens his mouth politically, I want to say like, tell a story. Tell one of those stories where a whole town explodes with vampires. That's what I want you to do because he's very good at.

Well, you know, in writing a whodunit that also has this kind of spooky element, the murder element, the love element, what is it like mingling the dark and the light in such an interesting way, Andrew? Well, I really am, as you say, very aware of the culture. It's a culture that has always bothered me in the political world, not the politics. I've always felt that we lose people at the movies, not at the ballot box. We've lost the country at the movies and on TV and not at the ballot box. You know, you can win a thousand elections, but if you lose the culture, you lose the country

because that's what fashions people's minds. And so I have been a sort of rebellious voice in the culture all my life, and I remain that because it's locked down. I mean, I can't tell you how lockdown it is. I worked in Hollywood. You can't be a conservative and make a living in Hollywood because ultimately, like me, the jobs will dry up because people just won't work with you. Even in publishing, which is a little bit more open, they have virtually stopped publishing novels by white men. And my publisher, who is one of the greatest, probably the greatest mystery editor of all time, has been canceled in various places.

He used to be just welcome everywhere because he was the brilliant, brilliant editor of mysteries. He's been canceled for only, not for only publishing white men, but for publishing a lot of white men. So this is a time of like secret censorship of censorship that's below the eye level of most people. And guys like me surviving is kind of a miracle. And I've done it through hook and by crook and I've been very, very fortunate to do it. But it needs more voices and it needs more publishers and it needs more venues and movie houses so that people like me who are good at what we do, but also have a vision that's in line with tradition and religion and faith and a conservative world in the sense of being an

American world. So we have a place to go. You know, it's gotten, it's gotten very, very tough, especially for young people who don't have the track record that I have to get in and break in. And I get these really heartbreaking letters all the time saying, you know, I've written this wonderful novel, but I've been turned down everywhere, and I believe them. I mean, some of them probably haven't written a wonderful novel, and some of them have and just can't get published. People are not aware of just what a stranglehold the left has on the culture, and we know about the news media. It's just as bad in Hollywood. It is just as bad in the publishing industry. It's just now. It's just now we've kind of won a victory in Trump's reelection represented a big, big victory

for offbeat media, like the Daily Wire. like Megan Kelly, like all the people who we know have been breaking through. But it's not going to matter if we win that victory and people don't produce the kind of content that is great entertainment and also has a rich, deep sense of the country. And that to me is what the real fight, where the real fight is going to be won or lost. The left, if you think there's no reason why the left screams and yells when anybody in the entertainment business says, you know, Donald Trump, Trump has a point. They just rip him to shreds because they know once they lose their

stranglehold on the culture, they will have lost everything because they have no arguments. All their policies make life worse. So the only thing they do have is they do have very beautiful actresses and very handsome actors and very famous writers, constantly saying that anybody who disagrees with them is a fascist. And, you know, as I say, people like me are thin on the ground and you have to be very, what's the word? You have to be mentally tough to sort of withstand the stuff that comes your way. I went in Hollywood from having a very high income to having zero income simply because I said, you know, maybe we should support the wars overseas instead of like attacking our soldiers while they're getting blown up, making movies

about how bad they are while they're getting shot at. Maybe that's not a good thing to do. That ended my Hollywood career. And so that's, and that is happening all the time to people, most of whom keep their mouths shut. And so, you know, you're just going to get one kind of entertainment until we start building venues that take people like me and actually say, okay, you know, we're going to let you say what you say. Even in my conservative little publishing house, I've had little fights about things where I just say, like, I'm not cutting stuff out because the New York Times is going to be offended. In fact, if I can put stuff in that offends the New York Times and still make it a great story and not make it a polemic, I'll do it. You know, I think it's just

important that you hear the way the world really is instead of the world the left want the way the world the way the left wants you to see it well not one publisher and I'm not saying that it's racism or sexism but not one publisher has taken my Matt Walsh Andrew Cliven fan fiction novel which I think is quite good I cannot that's amazing that's insane if only that were real if only that were real I'm actually going to go a little bit out of order here because I plan to talk about the Democrats right now but In a way, I kind of want to talk about the right. This Atlantic article by a Stanford student was fascinating. It was published just the last couple of days. And the young woman writes,

what outsiders might not understand is that, at least in my experience, the appeal of conservatism on campus today isn't really about Donald Trump or Trumpism or any other set of ideological beliefs. At the level of national politics, the GOP is full of Trump loyalists who refuse to break from the party line, even as some of Trump's prominent followers outside government have broken with him on certain issues. But at Stanford, the conservative culture was full of diversity and contradiction. And this actually was in my head. As I saw, Tucker Carlson dropped like a two plus hour episode with Nick Fuentes just like an hour or so ago. And I wanted to run this clip by you, Andrew, of Nick Fuentes talking about how he has this sort of claim to being marginalized.

He's trying to tell the story about how he's been marginalized by the institutional right. And at one point, had a sort of infamous brush up with Marjorie Taylor Green. So let's go ahead and roll this clip. It's S-10. So it sounds like your, not to put words in your mouth, but just your life experience has left you so stung by the Republican establishment. You don't trust anybody, it sounds like. Well, no, I mean, these people attacked me when the rules were different. And now they got better.

And now I'm good with them. I mean, I'm willing to be good with them. But I think that I don't know if Marjorie still has a problem with me or not. So the reason I'm connecting points A and B here, Andrew, I'm curious what you think, is just this will manifest. This institutional distrust will manifest in some ways that are healthy. And it will manifest in some ways that are unhealthy. And that strikes me as something people still don't understand. about the Trump era and the kind of young right.

It's not sort of like institutional country club, Alex P. Keaton, young conservatives. It's some of that, and then it's some of something else. Well, yeah. I mean, the thing that you have to be careful about is there's going to be a reaction. The left has been oppressive. They've been insulting.

They've insulted people's religion. They've insulted people's nation. They've insulted people's values. They've tried to turn morality on its head. They brought pornography into elementary schools. and then when people tried to force it out, they set the FBI on them, and they call us, they say,

oh, they're just waging a culture war, but it's only a cultural world once we start to fight it. So, listen, if you are a wise person and a person who's contained within yourself and a person whose values grow up from within yourself and from within the things you know, you don't react to them. You simply defeat them.

And I think that's what we've done. I think we actually have broken their stranglehold on parts of the culture and have an opportunity, to take the culture back. We're not going to be able to do it with people like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes. I think Tucker having Nick on and just sitting there credulously, as he always does with right-wingers who hate Jews. He always just sits there credulously and sort of believes every tale of oppression and exclusion that they tell. But Nick, I don't hate Nick in any way.

I mean, I think he's an intelligent guy. I think he could be a better man than he is. But he sits there and says that he is called anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel, but he's called anti-Semitic because he doesn't like Jews. I mean, I don't care. Israel is nothing to me. You know, I don't come from there. I don't have any people there. I don't have anything. That's not a place that matters to me, except as an American ally. But this is a guy who said Jews should leave the country because they're not one of us. He's a guy who said that segregation, black segregation in the South, which was an insult to American values down to the ground. He said it was good for them, meaning black people, and good for us.

You know, this is a guy who has spouted a lot of anti-Semitic, you know, rhetoric over the years. And then when people say, you know, that's kind of ugly and hateful and stupid, he's like, you know, what? I can't criticize Israel. You can criticize Israel all you want. But hating people who are, in fact, a very important part of this country and great contributors to the good of this country over the years. That, I think, is despicable.

And it's disgusting. It's disgusting. I think that I don't know what happened to Tucker Carlson. I really don't know. He was great on Fox. There were days when he was great on Fox. The stuff that he's been saying, you know, hosting, again, credulously, a history hobbyist who says the Holocaust was a mercy killing.

You know, Hitler just took too many prisoners and he didn't want them to starve painfully to death, so he did them the favor of gassing them by the millions. You know, it's just not true. Those things aren't true. It's not true that we bomb Nagasaki because Christians live there. It's like those things are not historically true. And so this is a part of the right that is enticing to young men who feel that they have been penalized for being penalized for having for being men. Sorry, but I mean, I couldn't help myself.

But they, you know, they have been called toxic. Their manhood has been looked down upon. They're told that, you know, they should step out of the way and let women do the jobs that men should really be doing. And I don't blame them for being angry. I'm a little startled when I find out how angry they are. I don't blame them. So the way this works is really simple. Talking about hating the Jews as if they were this powerful people, you know, and they are, and in some ways they are powerful people, but hating them for your failures gives you a sense of strength.

Emily is always a sign of the devil at work when somebody offers you strength that makes you weak. That is, it's always, you know, just take this heroin, you're going to feel great, just watch this porn, you're going to be tough, you know, just hate women, things are going to go great for you. And that's what they do with the Jews. And I think that when you think it through,

what we're having now is this kind of debate within the right is do we still believe in the republic, the republic that was handed down to us from the founders? Do we still believe in that? or are we in a post-liberal world where guys like Hitler made some kind of sense, where strong men will get rid of all these enemies that we have, these leftists? And that's the debate. And young men are being told that the strong way forward is kind of a fascist way forward.

It's the Hitlerian, hate the Jews, hey, don't listen to any of this, you know, love your neighbor stuff. You know, don't listen to anybody who doesn't have the same religion as you or anything like that. But that's actually the action of a weak man. If you think about it, in a fascist state, there's only one furor. Everybody else is a toady. You know, everybody else is like, oh, please, sir, yes, sir, no, sir. That's what you do when you have a furor.

You know, that's the way it works. When you live in a republic and each man is free, then each man can learn to be a man. And, you know, I'm a person who considers myself every bit as good as the most guy in the highest office in the country. I'm not afraid of Donald Trump. I'm not afraid of anybody because I grew up an American and I know that I'm as good as any man out there. And so that's the, that is the harder lesson that people like me

and other commentators are trying to teach young men that it's not through hating women. It's not through degrading women. It's not by hating Jews. It's not by hating blacks that you become a man. It's by feeling within yourself that you have the strength and the courage to be as good as any man and to look any other man in the eye

and say, I am equal to you. You know, I'm not equal. to LeBron James on the basketball court, but before God, I am equal to LeBron James or any other guy. And that's the mode of a republic. And only a republic gives you that power, that individual manhood power. So the thing is, guys like Nick Fuentes are selling you a bill of goods. They're selling you this idea that if you hate, you know, people who are, you feel are more powerful than you, that will somehow make you powerful.

If you go online and say, you can just hear the weakness in their voices, silence, Jew, they'll tweet things like that. You think like, yeah, you know, you're a pansy. You know, anybody who says that is just, you know, a Nancy boy sitting in his mother's basement pretending to be a king. And so I really think that in this fight, the people who believe in the Republic, the people who believe in the founding, because that's where I think the dividing line is. It's people who are for the founding and people who are against the founding. And the left is against the founding, and some of these people in the far right are against the founding, too. But I believe in the founding.

I believe that's the way forward for men. That's like what real manhood is saying, you know what? I don't want the government to give me anything. I'm going to build a business. I'm going to build a life. I'm going to work. I'm going to support a wife. I'm going to support kids.

I'm going to do the things that men do that make them actually strong instead of making them feel strong for 10 minutes and then while they crawl back under their mother's bed. And I just think when I watch, again, I don't know what happened to Tucker. You know, I don't know why he does it. Some people say it's because he's getting. money from Qatar. Some people say this is the way he's always been underneath. I don't know why he's hosting, you know, Nick Fuentes. And don't tell me it's just because he's not going to

indulge in cancel culture. He only hosts people who say this. When he brings people on, he tries to entice them into attacking Jews. Something has gone terribly, terribly wrong on this little corner of the right. And they are fighting, you know, this battle against the left was one by the Daily Wire, by Joe Rogan, by Megan Kelly. It wasn't won by these guys. And now they're sort of trying to sneak in and, you know, grab the victory away. I don't think they're going to do it. America has always thrown up haters like this,

and they've always hit a brick wall because of American decency and American freedom. We don't want to give up our freedom. We don't want a furor. We don't want people, you know, telling us that the guy next door, who's my pal can't live here because he's black or he's Jewish. That's not what Americans have been. about over time. And so we'll see if that's still true. We'll find out. But I'm not going to be shy about saying that these guys are wrong. You know, they're just wrong. And they say things that

aren't true. You know, their history is wrong. It's just not true. And it cannot be, it cannot be that every historian on earth says one thing. And Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes, they've got the secret. They've got the secret source of what really. happened 80 years ago, and they're going to tell us the real truth now. That just doesn't make any sense. So look, this is a battle between truth and lies. I think every movement has to fight it at all times. The left is far more dangerous than these guys are, because these guys are going to lose in the long run. So I want to focus on the left, and I don't want to be turned away into this, but since you bring it up, I just want to be really clear about where I stand on it. No, I think that's

We would need another couple of hours to debate Tucker probably. But that, because I'm much more, I think, sympathetic, but in this case with Fuentes, I wonder, I mean, it's such a difficult balance to strike because on the one hand, yes, white men have been the victims of a campaign, a racist and sexist campaign by the left. On the other hand, victim mentality, even when well predicated, is heroin. To your point, Andrew.

And it's just a, I'm curious, and this will be my last question on it, because I think it is so important for people on the right to focus on the left, because the left is focused on the right, and there are way more of them in positions of power in the media, but just on this last question, because we're both conservative,

I wonder how to reach people, the many people who are listening to Fuentes. A lot of them I think are doing it for the entertainment value, and maybe not for the ideology, but people who are, are sort of seduced by this without also alienating them and say, well, you know, you're, just being a loser or whatever mouth breather. That's my term of, I tend to favor that term. But it's a tough balance to strike. Well, you know, it's the same thing with Fuentes and Andrew

Tate. You know, after you've been abused by women, after women have told you you're toxic, after the whole culture has told you that women should be in charge to have a guy like Andrew Tate come along and say, you know, you can abuse women and you can use them and you can beat them and you can do all these things. To them, guys feel like, yes, this is giving me strength and he's like a big guy and he can be fun, like Fuentes and Tucker sometimes. He can be funny and witty and all this stuff. But my question is this, if your philosophy is a reaction to the way you've been treated, who's in charge of you? Well, the people that you're reacting to.

They're the ones that are in charge of you. They're the ones who have control over you. So if you get so angry at women that your whole philosophy of life is that, you know, you're going to treat women badly, it's women who are controlling you. And in fact, you know, the answer to that is, listen, I grew up in one of the first flowerings of feminism. I ignored it. I just thought I'm going to open doors for women. I had women in New York stop dead on the street and yell at me while I was opening

the door and I would say, hey, you know, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. You don't have to walk through the door. I found myself a great wife who's like taking care of me for 50 years. Like, I just thought, like, go ahead, you know, knock yourselves out. Do it. You know, ruin your lives. I don't care. It's not my life. I'm going to live my life the way it is. That to me is what men do. But men do is they forge a path for themselves out of their own values. And so I think that you're right. But I don't want to say to these guys, your mouth breathers, you're stupid. I agree they've been abused, you know, but you have to marshal that inner strength to just say, go ahead and abuse me and see if you can stop me. You know, that's the question.

The question is not whether you abuse me. It's whether you can stop me. And like I said, I've been in one of the toughest professions that are as show business, entertainment, publishing, toughest business in the world to succeed at. I've succeeded at it for, you know, 40 years, I guess. And I think, like, you know, you do that by just saying, these are my values, this is what motivates me, I'm not bending. I'm not bending. I'm going, I'm walking my path. And I think that that's what we have to teach young men. You know, we have to teach them. Look, there are plenty of fantastic women in the world, you know. If you're getting your idea of women, oh, stop. No, if you're getting your idea of women from activists, if you're getting your idea of blacks from activists,

you know, you don't know any black people or women. You know, it's like that's, that's not who those people are. It's not who anybody, the activists don't represent anybody, except this little sliver of the left that has taken control of the Democrat Party. So it's a question of teaching independence and strength and, you know, self-reliance and all of which are synonyms for manner. Speed dating through the Antifa mugshots. Okay. Quick break and Andrew Clayton will be back with us in just one second.

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All right. Back with us now is Andrew Claven. He's host of the Andrew Claven show and author of the new book, after that, The Dark. And now he's going to tell us what's wrong with the Democratic Party. We're going to dive into it. I want to start with this big new report from a group called Welcome, Center Left group called Welcome. Semaphore had an exclusive. They did this massive survey of hundreds of thousands of voters over the last six months

and found that 70% of voters think the Democratic Party is, quote, out of touch. Most voters believe the party over-prioritizes issues like protecting the rights of LGBTQ plus Americans and fighting climate change while not caring about securing the border or lowering the rate of crime. And then also this report got some quantitative data on the explosion of, I guess, quote-to-quote woke language. They studied national dumb platforms, party platforms from 2012 to 2014 and found a surge in language about specific racial groups. That was up 828%. They found a surge in language about environmental justice, up 33% about LGBTQ rates, up 1,44%. and mentions of men fell by 63% and of fathers by 100%.

Here, though, is Gavin Newsom on the All the Smoke podcast, bringing the Democratic Party back into play with men across America. You got the Supreme Court talking about getting rid of the Voting Rights Act, and that's very real. Yeah. That may likely happen in just a matter of months. I mean, they're rewriting history, sensory and historical facts. It's an un-looking-believable moment.

All this anti-woke stuff is just anti-black. Period, full stop. All the CRT, ESG, DEI stuff, that's all this is. It's this great purge, and it's happening in real time, and I'm sitting here, and I feel like, you know, luckily I'm governor, but like we're not doing enough. We're not calling this out. We're not drawing a line here.

And again, it's not about Democrats or Republicans. It's about who we are, man. Right and wrong. Right and God damn wrong. Daylight and Darkness. Right and goddamn wrong. And there's the other clip where he was talking about playing basketball and the driveway and acting as though he was like at a working class background,

even though his dad was a lawyer for the Getty family. Great appearance by Gavin Newsom here, Andrew. Are you convinced? Yeah. First of all, I am shocked. I am shocked that a Democrat would say that anyone who disagrees with him is anti-black and racist. I've never heard that before. That's amazing, and amazing that he had the original mind

that could come up with such a startling new approach to political discourse. You know, this guy, I think, is going to find when he gets on the national stage, I think he's going to find that he hasn't got what it takes. This is the thing about him. You know, he's got hair, which I admire. I always think that's a good thing. But he, you know, his state is a dumpster fire. I don't know how much time he's spent in California.

I lived there for over, for about 20 years. and it's a paradise and people are moving out. Why are they moving out? Gavin Newsom. Two words explain why people are moving out of California. Gavin Newsom. So you're governing paradise and people who are like jumping off.

Please take me out of paradise. I want to go live in Texas where it's 100 degrees in the shade. You know, I want to go live in like a desert anywhere, anywhere but California, anywhere but paradise. Just get me away from Gavin Newsom. I don't think that guy is going anywhere. But he is expressive of something about the Democrat Party, that poll you were referring to, that study you were referring to, also

shows. And I look at it from the other side of it. If a guy is a working man, of any stripe, from white collar to blue collar, anywhere in between, and he goes out every day and he does his job, and he's honest, and he saves his money, and he takes care of the people in his life, he takes care of his wife, he takes care of his kids. If a woman is a mom, and she wants to take care of kids. She wants more kids than she has. She doesn't want just one kid. She wants lots of kids. She doesn't want to have to leave her kid after a month and go back to work. If she wants to live, that kind of life. What are the Democrats ever done for those people? I mean, that's most people. That is actually the majority of people. What have the Democrats ever done? They talk about the gays.

They talk about men who think they're women. They talk about people who've broken into the country. They want to defend gangsters and make sure they get due process. They don't want drug dealers blown up in the middle of the ocean heaven for fend all of these people who are hurting our country they are for and all of these people who are just outliers in our country never mind the people hurting it are just people who are you know on the fringes of our country they have oh boy we're going to give you everything you're going to get to the center of the country but the regular working man and woman and their children and families they do jack crap for them and they don't care about them and you know the one thing you know people hate Trump people like

Trump, people love Trump. But that's who he cares about. He cares about people who are doing their jobs. You know, that's what he cares about. And I think that, you know, you have people in New York, especially young people, you know, following Zoran Mamdami, you know, they say, I'm going to give you this free, and that'll be free, and that'll be free. And free is a word like dragon. It doesn't refer to anything in the real world, you know. I mean, it's like, we know what it means, but it has no reference point in the real world. And so how stupid are these people? Well, I guess what it is, is, is they're afraid they can't make it. They're afraid they can't do the things that,

afraid a world no longer exists in which they can do the things that most people want to do. Most people want to do their jobs and feel, you know, self-sufficient. Most women want to be mothers and want to have children. These are the things that people want to do. It's where all the joy of life comes from. What do the Democrats do for them? Like nothing, they don't even mention them.

They don't even talk about them anymore. All they do is you stink. You know, you're anti-black. You know, anti-black, but a stupid thing to say. You know, like you're a fascist. You're systemically racist. Your country stinks. This country has never been great.

These are the things the Democrats say. I don't know who's going to vote for him. You know, after a while, even the people who they ostensibly support catch on. The thing about this country is that every single social movement ends up a leftist movement. So you start out with feminism and you say, you know, women should have rights and choices. And most people, I was there when that happened. Most people went, yeah, I get that. You know, yeah, I get that.

And then it ends up, oh, men are toxic. Families stink. Being a mother is less than being, you know, a model who walks down a runway in her underwear. You know, I mean, these are the things that ends up being because it's a leftist movement. And then when you say, well, I'm against feminism, people think you're against women. But no, you're against leftism. Same thing with civil rights. It starts out like, hey, blacks are being mistreated.

And most people go like, they kind of are, aren't they? And it ends up with white people stink. You know, this country stinks. It's systemically racist because it's a leftist movement. And then when you say, well, I'm against civil rights. People say you're anti-black. All of these things are lies. It's a very good system, especially if you have the media backing you up.

But I don't think they have the media backing them up anymore because I think we're the media. And I think that that's the end for people going on. on NBC and saying, yes, anybody who's against hiring people just because of the color of their skin is a racist. And you go like, I'm sorry, what? You know, what was that? So I think that they're in big trouble.

I think, you know, people like Gavin Newsom and, you know, and the rest of the left are in really big trouble because the only thing they really had was the media. The only thing they had were the academy, the news media in Hollywood, creating this cocoon of lies around them because their arguments didn't make any sense. and you know, oh, you know, hope, Obama is hope, you know. That's a, you can't say stupid stuff like that when you have like little gadflies like me and you going like, no, it's not. And by the way, you're lying because you said this here and you said this here.

And here's a video of it and you can see it the same moment you're talking. While you're talking on NBC, we're on X showing these videos. And so they're done. You know, I think they're done. And listen, the fight is never over. It's always going to be a fight. There's always going to be bad guys and good guys. But for now, I think Chady Vance is the next president.

That's what I think. Fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Who's going to protect them? Who's going to protect them from the stupidity of their own arguments? Right. I mean, we're seeing this with the Karin-Jean-Pier book tour, which I suspect you will outsell.

Even those words, even those words really string together well. Yeah. Yes, it is an academic tome and includes Lund's. like about Lady Gaga and her. Oh, good. We need to dive into it to just make the simple point, that they're now criticizing Corrigo and Pierre because she's no longer been used to them,

and they have competition from others in the press. And they're criticizing her because she left the Democratic Party because they were so mean to Joe Biden. Yes. Which is kind of funny, you know. Not enough tapioca pudding for Joe Biden. Could have been more.

Andrew Clavin's new book is called after that, the dark. Go buy it. Thank you so much for joining us once again. Andrew Claven. Really appreciate you being here. Always love to see you, Emily. Thanks a lot. Amazing. All right, quick break, and we'll be back with more right afterwards.

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check out that's 25% off when you use code afterparty at cowboy colostrum.com slash after party. After your purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them we sent you. Okay. There were a couple of clips that I want to get to based on the Democrat survey that I just mentioned with Andrew Claven finding over the course of six months and consultations with hundreds of thousands of voters that the Democratic Party is out of touch that mentions in party platforms of language about racial groups, environmental justice, and LGBTQ rights

surge. We're talking in the latter case, a thousand, more than a thousand percent. Most Americans found the party is over-prioritizing issues like LGBT stuff, climate change, while not caring about securing the border or lowering the rate of crime. So what is the Democratic Party to do? I actually want to play this clip of Karin-Jean-Pierre, which you'll immediately know, is what not to do, because I think it makes an interesting point in that direction. So let's go ahead here and roll Corrine Jean-Pierre on MSNBC over the weekend. Do you have any regrets at all for anything that you said while you were speaking on behalf of this administration?

She's so close to the camera. I can. Look. It's a simple yes or no, no, no, no, no, because you're asking for a yes or no question. I want to put some context to sit to it too. I woke up every day. I woke up every day. Very proud.

That's true. to be the White House press secretary. I woke up every day as a as a black woman who is queer who had never no one had ever seen someone like me at that podium standing behind that lectern. He knows what she's doing. It was an honor and a privilege to have that job. And I did it to the best of my abilities and I spoke for the president of the United States, a person that I believe was a decent person. We did not get everything right. No one is saying we got everything right. No one is saying that we got everything right. No one is saying that.

When Korea-Jean-Pierre is cornered, she throws up the shield that worked very well from 2020 to 2024, which is retreating to identity. I am a black, queer woman. She says every time that she's boxed into a corner by a journalist who will ask some questions that Corrine Jean-Pierre would not get because she was intimidating reporters out of asking them by threatening to take away their access to the White House when the president of the United States was visibly ailing in front of literally everyone. And so this book, literally called Independent, just the maybe worst named book in the history of poorly named books, because it's exactly directionally correct, right?

Like the country is looking for independent media, independent spirits. But Carine Jean-Pierre is the least independent. she is so vigorously attached to Joe Biden. And she didn't really have an option unless she wanted to completely spill the beans on the Biden administration. But even that would be difficult because it would make her look bad. So she would have had to cop to like years of lies and misbehavior in order to substantiate that going forward in her career. And we talked about this last week, but she is getting absolutely roasted for this interview she did with Isaac Chautner of the New Yorker, where they go in circles, New Yorker published a transcript.

And actually reading her babble is incredible. This would be F3. It's just when you see it in a transcript, the way she runs in circles when pressed over and over again, what are you actually saying? So Chautner says you argue that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. A lot of people thought that Biden was not the best person

to go up against Trump in the summer of 2024 after his debate. There's approval ratings in the basement. Shouldn't those people try to give Dems the best chance to replace Trump? You're talking about Biden like loyalty was owed to him. loyalty owed to the country. Karinjampier. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not talking about that.

I'm saying that this is not how you treat somebody. Isaac Chautner comes back. Is this a matter of how you treat someone or a matter of putting the country first? Very good question. Well put. Karinjadjump here. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Treating somebody with dignity is not the same as loyalty. What a distinction. I mean, the way he was treated, I had never, if you had seen something like that in the Democratic Party, please, please, please, please point that out. He goes, so what was an example of the way he was treated? Cream jump here says there were lots of nasty articles. And so the New Yorker comes back with her. It's like, so your problem here is that there were nasty articles.

And she just once again fumbles, says absolutely nothing other than these like filler words where she's like, no, no, no, no, no. We have to be very clear. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. And then her mind spins to come up with an answer that is, that actually like just sounds as though it's an answer to the question in the way she heard her tone of voice. getting over-excited. I actually just pulled up my own hair. But it sounds like that. But it doesn't say anything in substance. It's like when somebody just is completely trying to do the tone of voice that makes it sound like they're answering the question. That's what this entire interview is, basically.

And at one point, New Yorker interviewer says, okay, but I'm not understanding what you being like a black queer woman has to do with why you stood by Joe Biden. And of course, Karin-John-Pierre has no answer that question. She's just going into all of these interviews. I mean, this woman has saturated herself throughout the media, Morning Joe, New Yorker, MSNBC, Colbert, Tim Miller, Bullwork. And she's getting demolished, demolished, just about everywhere she goes. She looks foolish, just objectively, everywhere she goes. And so, I mean, yes, the media now knows it has more competition, as Andrew Claven said earlier in the show and Corrine Jean-Pierre, obviously doesn't have a leg to stand on, but even then the fact that she continues to go on these interviews, man, that girl wants some money

from this book. That's the only explanation here. She wants to sell the book, get some money, maybe get some sympathy, show the Biden family that she has total loyalty, unflinching loyalty, which, as we said earlier, was not a choice. It's her only option, is to either say nothing or express unflinching loyalty or look like a complete liar, which is not helpful for your career either. So this is where she finds herself. Well done, Karin Jean-Pierre. And guess who is dogged by the exact same problem? Kamala Harris.

Kamala Harris, who sat for a BBC interview over the last couple of days and introduced the new run versus serve distinction as a cope to explain her position on Joe Biden's health. which came into focus during that debate. But of course, not before. Nobody did anything to say about it before, with the exception of, like, Ezra Klein in January of that year in the Wall Street Journal, like a month before the debate. So let's take a look at how Kamala Harris...

This is so bad. I mean, this is like... You've seen all the Korean-jean-Pier clips. This one might actually be worse. Let's roll S-6. There is a very serious difference... The reporter is so confused. Between capacity to be president of the United States.

No. No. No. No. It's not... It's not... It's not... ...and so it is on that latter piece that I talk about in the book, about my concern,

about his ability with the level of endurance, energy... The level of endurance. ...that it requires, especially running against now the current president. But isn't it a strange message to the public to say, you know what, you need to be tougher and more able to run a political campaign? to run a political campaign, then actually to be the person behind the desk in the Oval Office, to be the person making decisions in the situation room.

So did you just not think it was that bad or did you feel you just couldn't raise it? I was concerned about his ability to run for re-election, given what the campaign would require. So there's a pretty easy way to answer that question, which is just that it's not a great answer, but there's pretty easy. As long as I'm Monday morning quarterbacking

the entire Democrat, party over the last 15 years. There's an obvious answer to that, which is to say it was difficult for him to, he didn't have the stamina to do the two-for, right, to be sitting president and campaign against Donald Trump. But Kamala Harris is so flustered by the reality that she has to spin. I mean, maybe she's dizzy from all of the spinning. She can't think quite straight, because there's just, like, there's no good answer, but there's a better way to say, to lie. this case. Like, there's a completely, she can't even lie well. Can't even lie well. And yet, and yet, let's roll S-7. Your baby nieces, Amara and Lila, when are they going to see a woman

in charge in the White House? In their lifetime for sure. Could it be you? Possibly. Have you made a decision yet? No, I have not. But you say in your book, it's going to be Lara Trump. That is correct. I am not done. But when you look at the bookies odds, they put you as an outsider, even behind Dwayne the Rock Johnson. I mean, is that underestimating you? I think there are all kinds of polls that will tell you a variety of things. I've never listened to polls. If I listen to polls, I would have not run from my first office or my second office. And I certainly wouldn't be sitting here in this interview. Maybe I should be, I said Laura Trump, but maybe Caitlin Jenner for first woman president for Kamala Harris's little nieces.

I don't think it'll be her. I don't think it'll be Kamala Harris. I mean, you never say never. But I just, something tells me it's not going to be Kamala Harris. Now, on that point, I just wanted to quickly address this clip of the CEO of American Idol. Actually, kind of, this is an entire conversation about, this is an entire conversation about Dems, not picking up on the vibe shift or picking up on the vibe shift and not being able to adapt because they have painted themselves

into a corner so badly. They will find some people from outside the party establishment that don't have all of the baggage that they carry into politics with. And those will be the people that probably be in the best position. But because of all of the cultural baggage, they just aren't able to, even if they're clever enough to kind of pick up on the vibe shift,

like a Gavin Newsom, it's, it's almost impossible for them to remake themselves. The only person who's kind of doing it is Bernie Sanders on his podcast appearances with Andrew Schultz and Tim Dillon recently. But much left to be determined on that front. To underscore, though, what changed and changed really quickly. I want to roll this clip, actually from Semaphore of the American Eagle CEO talking about the Sydney-Sweeney ad.

The Sydney-Sweeney ad that set the Internet. a flame that people like me talked about ad nauseum and had too many opinions on behind closed doors. Here's what the CEO has to say about what went down. Our chairman and CEO is a very well-known Jewish businessman Jay Schoenstein. So for some of the social media noise to go down these paths of Nazism and white supremacy was honestly offensive. This is the moment that the crisis communications industrial complex tells you, you need to get out there and you need to make a statement and you need to get ahead of the news and go, go, go. And I actually think the smartest thing we ever did was do nothing because it allowed us to really truly take stock in what was really happening with those brand metrics. with those business metrics, with those customer metrics.

Can you tell I've never worked at a major corporation before? That is the, I just assume everybody who looks somewhat fancy as the CEO. That is actually the chief marketing officer of American Eagle, who might actually have even been in a position to know more about this ad campaign than the CEO himself. But the most powerful thing, listen to that, the most powerful thing that we could have done was say nothing, or that we did was say nothing. And on top of that, the CMO here was saying, actually, they were offended by people who are making comparisons to the G-E-N-E-S genes instead of the J-E-A-N-S genes. And what did they not do?

Also come out and say, we are deeply offended by this. They just freaking ignored it. They just ignored it. And that's because everyday people are not addicted to the discourse. on X. They might hear about it. It might cross their transom when they're scrolling TikTok, but they have lives that are dedicated to so many other wonderful things and not the discourse. And so if you say nothing, again, I'm Monday morning quarterbacking the last 15 years of Democratic Party. I'm just going to do the same thing with corporate America while I'm at it.

I should truly be making millions of dollars a year for the value that I'm able to offer because there's no reason that in 2015 this could have been the obvious strategy adopted by C-Sweeds around the country. When you see fake controversies bubbling up on X, it's 15 people on a platform, or maybe it's more than 15 people, but it's 15 people on a platform. Then it becomes 150 people talking about those 15 people. And yes, then it will generate some type of article. Ignore it. Don't give them a statement. Or say, We're not comment, like we're standing by what we did. We're not commenting on it. Don't get involved. Just stop. Nobody cares. Let people wear themselves out, like toddlers at the park who didn't want to take a nap and then you let them run around and then they're ready for their nap. Let us do that. Like I will do that. Let me run around. I'll be ready for my nap after you let me talk about how crazy the reaction is. Just let it pass. Let it go. This lesson could have been learned. This lesson could have been ingrained. into the brains of everybody 10 years ago, but they were disproportionately responsive to

the social media discourse because they had, I mean, genuinely, it's no fun to see, you know, social media controversies bubbling up. It's easy to mistake that as being representative of some broader public reaction, although when you do the math, the slice of the population that is active every day on Twitter is very, very small. We're talking like 10 to 15 percent, at least last time I checked which was several years ago, so it might be a little smaller, a little bigger now, but it's not most of the population. A lot of people were on TikTok, that's for sure.

But a lot of this happened before TikTok even existed, and it just created this template that corporations started following. And the other reason, of course, was that they had like employees, millennial employees, who agreed with the mobs. And those employees were saying, we have to do better, we need to change our outreach, for this identity group and that identity group,

we need to put out a statement, and now we need to make amends. And it was all a fever dream. Now, I don't think it's gone for good. That's my prediction. I don't think it's gone for good. But when it crops back up again, we can look back on this example

of the chief marketing officer of American Eagle. I probably said American Idol at one point. I always, in my head, I'll just roll right into American Eagle, American Idol. It's the same era in my life. I have to forgive me for that, but we can look back fondly on this video and say, hmm, this man knew. This man had it right. All right. Okay, before we leave for the evening,

I want to go behind the scenes of the Megan Kelly Live Tour. If the show is coming near you, Megan Kelly.com, those where you can get the tickets, it was seriously so much fun to do a live taping in from a massive crowd at the beautiful, beautiful theater in San Antonio that we were at the majestic. I mean, that is an incredible. Shout out to San Antonio for having gorgeous architecture, period. I mean, the Art Deco, I didn't realize was such a prominent feature of downtown San Antonio. Incredible. Beautiful, beautiful city, beautiful theater. And even just at the meet and greet, speaking to all of you, you're so kind. I mean, you're so kind. You're so decent. something normal.

And I just, yeah, I know Megan said something to this effect, but it was just refreshing, really, to spend some time with people who listen. I mean, that means the world. It's like, that's everything if you do what I do and what all of us do. And people who care, just a wonderful, wonderful crowd. And I appreciate it so much. It was amazing to finally meet Glenn. And personally, the first thing I said to Megan,

And we were all talking to each other. I was like, Megan, Glenn has legs. This is us with Allison from Megan's team. Allison is amazing. I'm happy to announce that we did shut down the bar that night. And this is actually in my green room, because Glenn's green room had two floral patterned Victorian chairs and a piano.

And Glenn refused to play the piano for us. The great Glenn Greenwald would not play the piano. I wasn't going to play the piano. So we were hanging out in my green room for a long time, just shooting the breeze. And that was a blast. It was so good also to see a bunch of people from Megan's team. There's some overlap, as you can imagine. And just everyone does a lot of the work remotely. So to be all in the same place, catching up, talking about things after the show. Like I said, closing down the bar, I felt a lot of pressure to close down the bar as the host of

after party. Like I told Megan, I felt contractually obligated to go to the literal after party. Also, the wonderful hair and makeup artist, the makeup artist had done my makeup long before the show and gave me a little vial, which was like a lipstick replacement. All the years I've never, I've gotten hair and makeup, I've never seen that before, but I was walking around making just like completely inappropriate jokes about how it looked like I was carrying a little vial of, you know, drugs. And so again, more of me just being completely inappropriate at the after party, but actually I'm allowed to because I was the host. You can't question the party habits of the host of after party. Trust me. There was Karnia Sata, too. I didn't get a chance to eat any, but it smelled really, really good. Just a fun time all around. And I can't say enough about what Megan's kind word. meant to me. I think we have a picture of the black and, yeah, this was, this was me watching Megan talk from backstage, which was amazing to sort of peer over at the crowd. And this is a picture

of my friend Spencer Brown, he's been on the show, took, of me coming out, man giving me a nice hug. It was just really, really special. It was a really special moment for me, professional. And definitely a career highlight to be there with all of you, to be there with Megan and Glenn, who are two of the journalists that I admire more than anything. Like, I was just such a, the odd man out in that pairing. But to learn from those guys, man, that's to just listen to them and soak up their wisdom, their experiences. Glenn talking about Snowden reporting. That's over on Megan's channel right now. It's just truly a really fantastic experience. So if you have an opportunity to go see Megan, I'm telling you you should do it. The energy. Megan's starting

with Q&A. That was super cool. Just just impromptu going to back and forth with you guys. I thought that was the coolest thing ever. It set the tone for a really intimate conversation just across the board. So if you have a chance to go see Megan, definitely do it. Megan Kelly.com is where you can get the tickets. And you can reach me, of course, at Emily at devilmaycaremedia.com. Send us your questions for happy hour. I'm having so much fun with that. It comes out every Friday. You can shoot us questions at Emily at double makeharemedia.com or on the Instagram at after party, Emily. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll be back here on Wednesday with more.