Alastair's Adversaria - Numbers And The Camp Of Israel (with Michael Morales)

Episode Date: September 21, 2024

Michael Morales is the author of the recently released Numbers 1-19 volume (https://amzn.to/3XOgteK) in the Apollos Old Testament Commentary series, and the forthcoming volume on Numbers 20-36 (https://amzn.to/4e91X73). He joins me for a discussion of the war camp of Israel in the opening chapters of the book. Follow my Substack, the Anchored Argosy, at argosy.substack.com/. See my latest podcasts at adversariapodcast.com/. If you have enjoyed my videos and podcasts, please tell your friends. If you are interested in supporting my videos and podcasts and my research more generally, please consider supporting my work on Patreon (www.patreon.com/zugzwanged), using my PayPal account (bit.ly/2RLaUcB), or by buying books for my research on Amazon (www.amazon.co.uk/hz/wishlist/ls/3…3O?ref_=wl_share). You can also listen to the audio of these episodes on iTunes: itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/alast…d1416351035?mt=2.

Hello and welcome. I am joined today by Michael Morales, who's the author of a new two-part commentary on the book of Numbers. We are going to be discussing the first part of it in Numbers, Chapter 1 to 19, and specifically the first few chapters of the book. He has another forthcoming volume, 20 to 36 of the book, coming out in a month or two months' time. I'm not sure. The release date seems to differ between the US and the UK. But keep your eyes open. It's going to be a treat to read. I've thoroughly enjoyed what I've read of the first volume so far.

You may be familiar with his work from his book, Who Shall Ascend the Mountain of the Lord? And also he teaches biblical studies as a professor at Greenville, Presbyterian Theological Seminary. The commentary is in the Apollison. Old Testament commentary series of which there are several other wonderful volumes. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me on. It's a great privilege. So first of all, before we get into the meat of numbers, why exactly would you do a commentary on a book like Numbers? It seems not the most

interesting book of the Old Testament. It's maybe a book that people struggle with. Maybe it's a bit easier than Leviticus that comes before it, but many would struggle with it. And it seems if you want an exciting book, maybe do first and second Samuel or something like that. Why numbers? I'll give you two answers. One that that's true and more what I'm supposed to say at another one that's truer in terms of historical reality. I love the Pentateuch. I love the Torah. I love studying it. And so really in-depth study on any book of the Torah would be a joy. I kept asking myself a similar question while working through numbers. Why don't we get more studies, more preaching on numbers?

The term numbers and the way that the book opens can not be very exciting or adventurous to people new to the book. But those who actually know the book, it probably is. is the most exciting book in the Old Testament. Who knows, even perhaps the Bible, you know, maybe contending with revelation in terms of the ground opening up, swallowing people alive, people getting bitten by snakes. There's just so much going on there, but I think we missed that because of the way that the book starts and the title numbers. Now, the more historically accurate answer would be, I got signed on to this commentary. which I'm so thankful for, but it was about 10 or maybe more years ago.

And it's, I was, you know, you mentioned rather than maybe doing a commentary on Samuel or something like that, I was not a place where it's like, hey, what commentary do I want to do? It's like, I'm going to take what I can get. And this one, and God's kindness was open to me. And I, of course, gladly accepted it. but I didn't know what a blessing it was to probably a few years in when I started understanding what the book of numbers was about, because my view of numbers when I accepted the commentary work was, you know, hey, this is good work for someone who is a professor of biblical studies,

but it was actually working in-depth through numbers that I realized, wow, what a gift of God. The book itself seems often to be an odd assemblage of different material that doesn't maybe belong or cohere together, maybe like rummaging around in your grandparents' attic and finding things that are very odd next to each other. And the experience of reading through when you're having this description of a census and the ordering of the camp, and then you get into laws concerning a woman suspective of adultery and treatment of the Nazarite vow and then the blessing that needs to be given and then more narrative material.

And is there any rhyme or reason to the way that the material is brought together within the book of numbers? Is there a way in which we can trace a through line between the narrative elements and the legal elements and the other elements that make up the book? Yes, I definitely think so. And of course, in saying that I'm going against over a century's worth of scholarship that has come up with the resolution that it's nothing more than a dumping ground. But I found continuity at quite a deep level, but in a very simple way as well to say, and I'm not alone in this, that the camp of Israel really is the organizing a blueprint, as it were, of the commentary. So in chapter 10, 1 through 6, you have the construction of the camp and special laws for life in the camp that end with a blessing. And then chapter 7 through 10, you have the movement

of the camp. And it's orchestration, all the instructions for that. And it ends with a similar poem like the priestly benediction, the song of the ark. And so chapters 1 through 10 are about the the creation and the mobility of the camp. And the rest of the book opens up when you keep your eye on the camp, whether it's the journey through the wilderness, chapters 11 through 25, or the prospect of life in the land, chapters 26 through 36. It all has the camp as the great paradigm.

It seemed to me reading through the book a while back and I'm talking on a bit myself, just striking how much, how much the bits that didn't seem to fit together. Actually, if you look more closely, there are connecting themes, whether it's, for instance, the tassels and the way that that's connected to something beforehand and not spying out after your hearts or connected to something that comes later with the tassels connected with the high priests blossom or the plate on his forehead.

And the way that that then gets connected to the whole story of the rebellion of Cora and then blossoms at the end from the almond rod. And then going further, things like the puzzle of Chapter 19, why that text in that place? And there's a missing 38 years, and in some ways that may be a symbolic representation of that period of time. And there are a lot of details like that within the book that on closer examination suggested that there was a deeper logic

to many elements that seemed incongruent, or jarring next to each other, it was actually an invitation to look more carefully and treat the legal elements as, I suppose, keys that helped to unlock the narrative elements. And at many different junctures, it seemed that the text was inviting a different sort, a different and a deeper sort of examination than we typically engage in as readers of the text. You mentioned before the variety of genres and one sort of rule of thumb, and this is even in some of the older commentaries, even if I think they missed the forest for the trees, but the fact that often legal material follows narrative as a divine explanation for it. So you mentioned the Tassels is the great example. The language it's picking up from the sin of the scouts and clearly as an antidote to it, same thing with.

Chapter 18 after Korah's rebellion, God is reestablishing through this legislation, the hierarchy of Aaron's house, the Levites, and Israel. So there is a logic to the placement. It's not just some random hodgepodge, but it obviously takes a high view of scripture to be willing to not give up and to wrestle for that divine logic. Also seems to be maybe fitting for the name. a lot of attention given to numbers and numerical structures, whether that's the ordering of the itinerary of the travel through the wilderness,

which I think it's Wenham remarks upon a sort of pattern of weeks that can be mapped on to each other. Or even in something like Chapter 31, where there are all these pieces of spoil taken that sum up to 840,000 pieces that are then divided among two different groups, and there's a lot of attention given to how things get divided and maybe connected to chapters at the end of judges where a reverse of that almost takes place with things trying to double things that are not easily doubled.

And it seems to me that the text is again inviting us to look more closely at something that we maybe our eyes glaze up over when we look at numbers and we think about numerical structures. but the text maybe wants us to pay a bit more attention to those. And the passage that we're going to be focusing upon in our discussion now is very much one filled with numbers and numerical structures, the division of the camp into these three, these four different groups of three tribes and the ordering of it

in this sort of pattern around the tabernacle, and then the numbering of each one of those groups and the different tribal camps. why all this attention to numbers? Is there something more going on here? And how can we read these numbers well? Yes, I think there is a beautiful theology of God's people and the joy of being enrolled in God's community. One of the things that we can do with the numbers, for example, is compare the numbers in numbers one and two with numbers 26 and see how the tribes fared. So one glaring example is Simeon gets reduced incredibly and we have an explanation for that.

The bail of Peor seems to have been led by his tribe. There's also a lot of Abrahamic Covenant theology that God's people are going to be like the stars and the heavens. That comes out. You also just have a way to measure the tribes and even their future glory, like the tribe of Judah is always the biggest one. You know, the 603,000 figure, I have a little excursus on that. I'm actually, I actually argue that that's probably for the most part giving us the view of Israel as a whole, not just the fighting men that we aren't supposed to extrapolate, you know, three million from that. But in terms of the precise number, you know, the text is asking us to.

I tried to uncover every stone, even Gamutria, there's been some suggestions, like perhaps it refers to Sons of Israel. I never found a fully satisfactory answer. It's one of the problems with numbers. There are so many different ways you can manipulate them. Exactly. Particularly when you're dealing with Gamutria, there are all these different ways you can tweak a sentence or a particular word to get it to sum up to something.

But at the very least, the text, as you said, through the use of these numbers is saying, this is something crucially important. And I think in the original culture that was perceived far more than it is in hours where we just sort of want to skip through some of these lists. So the Book of Numbers is a book that can be read by itself. But it also is a book that comes as part of the wider body of the Pentateuch. and in particular, it seems to pick up on themes and a particular narrative background in the Book of Exodus. Can you maybe give a sense of some of the threads from the Book of Exodus that are

being picked up at the beginning of the Book of Numbers? Sure. Well, one big aspect is the Levitical Camp, so chapters 3 and 4 is where the Levites get numbered and they get their position in the camp. I found this also with chapters one and two for the outer camp of the 12 tribes where the first chapter gives you the theology from Genesis, that they're going to be numerous as the stars in the sea, etc. And then chapter two gives you their encampment place. Well, with the Levites, chapter three, which gives you their theology, takes us to the book of Exodus and the redemption of Passover and the firstborn sons and how the Levites will replace the firstborn sons. And then chapter four gives gives us their placement.

And that leads me to, I mean, this would be a rabbit trail, but an interesting. All about rabbit trails here. View of the Pentateuch is, I think a great way to think of the Pentateuch is as this picture of the camp of Israel. This really hit me again with Numbers 1 referring to Genesis. Numbers three, referring to the Levites, taking us to the book of Exodus. And when the camp is built, we're just told that the camp of the 12 tribes are to surround the camp of the Shikina, the Lord Central dwelling, and then the Levites. But the Lord's central camp is already created.

And we asked, where is that? Well, that's obviously Leviticus. And so Exodus and numbers on the other side of Leviticus are what fills in the picture for the Levites. Levites, for the most part, don't show up anywhere else in a serious way. And then, of course, Genesis and Deuteronomy are referring to the people as a whole. And seeing that structure gives us not only the structure of the camp, but a beautiful picture of the Panatouk is God's covenant community. So a lot of the lines that flow, going back to your question, I think, is tracing that Levitical genealogy, which, of course, we get already in Exodus. I think it's Exodus

6, we get the line that leaves us all the way with Cora. We're wondering, why do we need to know about Cora? Well, obviously, Numbers is going to pick up that story on the other side of Leviticus and number 16 and 17. I find it interesting the way in which you mentioned the details given about the Levites and the way that there are other elements that are picked up upon, for instance, in the genealogy of Exodus. it seems to me that there are many points when you're reading a book like numbers where you're

revisiting things that you've seen before. For instance, the feasts, and there is a different aspect of it that's focused upon. So the emphasis upon the different sacrifice, the sacrifices that were offered on the festival occasions. It's very different from the description of the feast that we might have in the case law in Exodus 21 to 24 or the description of, the feasts in Leviticus 23. There's a focus on a different aspect of something we have seen before. Is this a more common feature of the Pentateuch? And what should we make of that? Yes, that's an excellent observation. The Pentateuch, although there is a rough chronology, the Panetuk is divided consciously, deliberately as five books according to theme.

or thematic topic. And so one great example of this is the inauguration of the tabernacle. It occurs three times. It occurs in Leviticus. It occurs in Exodus. It occurs in numbers. And the focus in each book is a great clue to what the book is about. And so in Leviticus, we are emphasizing the consecration of the priesthood. And that obviously the sacrificial system is what Leviticus is about. In Exodus, we just have the glory of God consecrating it, and this is part of the big climactic point of the Book of Exodus is God dwelling on earth. It's now a Mishkan dwelling. Whereas in Numbers, we get this view of these leaders we had never heard of before, the 12 tribal leaders. And the book of Numbers is very much about leadership.

Now, you had mentioned Exodus leading into the book of numbers. I want it, if I can, just touch on that one more because there's a big, really obvious, and I think really helpful for our listeners' thematic connection there, and that is with the dwelling. So in Exodus 25, 8, and then again in chapter 29, God makes this declaration, have them build me a sanctuary that I may dwell in their midst. And it's very easy thinking that when God's glory fills the tabernacle that this promise or this instruction has been fulfilled, but one of the really helpful angles of understanding that I came upon and working through numbers was realizing that that intention had not yet been fulfilled until numbers 1 through 6.

We don't have a covenant community yet. I mean, they are in covenant with God, but at the end of Exodus, we have God on the one hand and we got the people on the other. They're not yet together. So that great covenant formula, I'll be your God, you'll be my people, I'll dwell in your midst. That's the million-dollar question is. When does that literally happen? It doesn't happen in Exodus.

It doesn't happen in Leviticus. But when God, by divine revelation, starts arranging literally the tribes around him so that he is in their centered dwelling in their midst. Then suddenly we have the great fulfillment. And so the beginning of numbers is not just looking forward to, hey, we're getting ready to take off. No, it's actually still building the Sinai Revelation. It's still fleshing out the Sinai covenant. And that's really the heart of it. If you lop off the first 10 chapters of numbers, you miss the glory. There's no covenant community. That's what it's all about. And so understanding that that's sort of the glory, the joy, the wonder that the book of numbers is

expressing then helps you, as I've said before, makes sense of the rest of the book, which is basically analyzing the covenant community from every angle. And maybe one of the things that really comes to the fore is the resolution to one of the narrative questions that Exodus raises, which is how is the end of the book a suitable conclusion, resolution of the themes raised by the beginning. The beginning of the book has this sort of propulsive narrative energy. It's really about big political themes. It's about the deliverance of a people from this oppressive nation. And the end of the book, you'd think, would be establishing a new nation. And yet it's just the building of this tent. And so in many ways,

it requires the book of numbers to really carry that through, to give you the sense of, this is the seed of the nation around which everything else is going to be ordered. And you already have, as it were, elements within Exodus that call forward to that, such as chapter 38, where it talks about the silver that has been gathered from the census, which we have at the beginning of numbers, which is then used to construct the tabernacle. So the tabernacle itself is in some way connected with the people that surround it. And the Book of Numbers then has, as you mentioned, this emphasis upon leadership,

whether that's the ordering of this wider body of people around the challenges to Moses and Aaron, Moses in particular in his leadership, the establishment of the 70 elders, all these sorts and in the establishment of Joshua, other ways, the succession towards the end of the book with the death of Miriam and Aaron and then the coming death of Moses. It seems that

there is this movement out of the logic that has already been established in Exodus. And maybe also continuing from Leviticus, where Leviticus begins again in a way that presumes the end of the

Lord's speaking to Moses. It's not even it's a sentence that seems to presume that you know the reference from beforehand. It doesn't contain it within it. And so you're expected to have some sense of the setting. And now the tent of dwelling is going to be the tent of meeting. And the book ends with movement towards vows, this more sacred status enjoyed by members of the wider people,

not just the priests in their service. and now it seems in numbers that holiness is stretching out even further to include the wider tent and the wider camp around it. Yeah, thinking about the end of Exodus and the beginning of numbers really helps position the logic and utter vital necessity of the book of Leviticus. If Moses can't approach God's house at the end of Exodus, then certainly none of the tribes can, which is exactly what happens in numbers. of what we need is somehow for that dwelling to turn into attentive meeting. And I would suggest that's

really where the drama of Leviticus has found. How can this dwelling of God come to function as attentive meeting? And a big part of that answer, of course, is a consecrated priesthood and the sacrificial system and the designated times. And once it's a tent of meeting, now you can sort of like spokes in a hub, you can plug in the tribe so that the camp does become this new thing that the tribe of reuben is not in the same status once they're encamped at the designated spot within the camp as they were before the book of numbers because suddenly as you alluded to number five defilements that would only keep you from god's house now demand that you be expelled from the whole camp which is an incredible ecclesiology the purity and holiness of the people of

God. Can you maybe explain something of the logic of the relationship between the tabernacle and the wider camp? The tabernacle's in the center, but what are the connecting principles? Well, a big part of that, I think, is what we have in Leviticus, and that includes what's added at the beginning of numbers, chapters three and four that I mentioned before about the Levites. So the camp is a new entity. It's a lot of older scholarship, I think rightly saw it as something as this mobile city of God. God dwelling in the midst of his people. I mentioned the covenant formula. I would refer to the camp as the paradigm for the covenant community, which means it'll have application for the covenant community today. So God's people, the 12 tribes, they're all

equidistant from God, and yet there's a hierarchy with Judah given the primary place. But this ability to have God in your midst without being consumed by his fire requires the sacrificial ministry of the priesthood, the daily offerings. And all of these things are going to get tested. Now, especially we've mentioned the Coral Rebellion. Well, we're all holy, and we've got these tassels that say we're holy. Any of us can be a priest or we don't need a priesthood, and God teaches them. otherwise. So you have this beautiful balance of equal access to God, the blessings of God flowing from the center of the camp outward, and yet also that sober, fearful, understanding that he is a consuming fire. His nature doesn't change. And it's just, it's this beautiful balance,

almost like, you know, we talk about the cosmos that if the sun or the moon were shifted in a different place, suddenly the earth couldn't exist. Well, that's how it is for God's people, given His holiness. Everything is in its proper place. It's going to be tested and tried throughout the journey. God's people will learn by disastrous presumption to see the logic and wisdom and finally embrace this gift of the covenant community. And once they do, suddenly they're ready to replicate it in the land, which is what the third half of the book of numbers gives us. The book of Exodus in particular, but also the other books of the Pentateuch, seem to connect event with institution, the establishment of some continuing practice or some entity, whatever it is, to continue in Israel's ongoing life some original event that is founding,

whether that's the law as the Charter of Israel's existence, continuing the logic of their liberation, or whether it's something like the tabernacle and its relationship with the Sinai Theopony and something like a specific body of materials such as the Song of the Sea that memorializes the events of the crossing. In all of these cases,

there is a way in which an original event continues in the life of the people through something that gets instituted. And that connection between event and institution seems to be a part of numbers too. And it seems to me that the logic, for instance, of the original covenant event, particularly in Exodus chapter 24, is something that continues in the tabernacle, but then also in the wider camp. Can you say a bit about the relationship that you see between the original event of Sinai? and Sinai is still the context for the beginning of numbers, and they're preparing to move on.

How are they bringing Sinai and its logic with them? Yes, well, the tabernacle itself, of course, is like an architectural mountain of God. Many call it a portable Sinai, which I think is correct, but given all of the Eden imagery, I prefer just portable mountain of God. if I could tap into a midrash that might just sound off the wall for some listeners. But I think it really gets to some of the theology of the camp that I think would be a good answer to your question. We find out in Deuteronomy that when the Lord descended on Sinai, he didn't come alone, that he was with his angelic host, and in fact that the law was given through angels.

I mean, you can look this up all over the New Testament. and it's assumed. And there's a midrash that talks about when the angels, the angelic host descendant on Sinai with the Lord, that they were encamped with their banners and how the Israelites were jealous and they wanted flags for themselves. And God said, okay. And then apparently the nation's jealousy of Israel is where flags came from. that idea really captures a profound theology that that makes the camp like a like a traveling Sinai. It's where I think a good word for its vertical typology. This begins in Exodus 25,

where Moses instructed everything that's created needs to be according to the pattern, the tabanith in Hebrew. And so we know that the house is an earthly copy of a heavenly pattern. And often we stop there in Exodus, but numbers, that whole theology continues. And the idea is that just as God's heavenly throne and dwelling is surrounded by angelic hosts, so the earthly throne is surrounded by earthly hosts. And in fact, the term host, Sabah is, I don't even remember anymore. It's just dozens and dozens of times in the opening chapters of numbers, making it clear. that these are the earthly hosts of Yahweh in the way that the Lord descended on Sinai with his angelic host.

Now that he's going to journey through the wilderness with his people, he is going to journey in the earthly chariot as opposed to the heavenly chariot. And so that's one way that it's also another rich layer of what the covenant community is about. You mentioned the connection between things like the ordering of Israel's camp and the breastplate of the high priest. You talk about the way that the breastplate has four sets of three, just as we see the camp being ordered into four sets of three tribes each cardinal direction. And what would fill out that connection that you draw? Why should we see these two things being associated? So the High Priest's breastplate clearly represents the people of God. It's a way for him to bring in God's people into the holy place and his mediation.

When I noticed the language for it, and it struck me when I was studying intensely, just every aspect of the theology of the camp, that it really seemed like a model of the camp. And then what really helped me to understand this further and that the connection had some basis is going to John's Apocalypse, where when he's describing the New Jerusalem, so I did a study on if the covenant community really is the camp,

the paradigm for it, then we should find evidence of that. And that's precisely what I found. So for example, in Ezekiel, when he describes, you know, he doesn't use the word Jerusalem, but the new city of God. By the spirit, yes, but the spirit uses means, and it seems to have been an understanding of the place of the camp in numbers as this paradigm. And so it is the last paragraph of Ezekiel, you know, the city of God is four square, three gates on either side, and each of the gates has the name of one of the 12 tribes, etc. And so I went to Revelation and saw the same thing. But what's amazing is that John also adds the 12 gems.

And any commentary basically is going to take you to the high priest's breastplate. And when you understand that the camp and the breastplate are both images for the covenant community, the city of God, the way that John brings them together makes good sense. So I pursued some other avenues like Philo and Josephus. what they say of the breastplate is also what they say of the camp, that it has this cosmological symbolism, that they make some connections to the zodiac. But what it does, I think that the fact that the breastplate is a blueprint of the camp,

is it just sort of solidifies that theology of the covenant community in such a beautiful way. we've already talked about the way that there is maybe some angelic association between the divine heavenly camp and then the divine earthly camp and you mentioned the angels with their banners and in scripture we have more specific associations of tribes with symbols there's a set of three or three bronze doors to a temple and the upper east side in New York that sometimes go past. And it has symbols for each of the tribes. And you can look at it and you know which ones they are. Because if you've read Deuteronomy 32 and Numbers and Deuteronomy 33 and then Genesis 49, the connections are there. What are some of the ways in which we can identify the tribes with specific symbols

And why do those symbols matter? Why aren't they just isolated, throwaway associations? Why should we give them a bit more weight? Well, I think there's a good argument that Scripture does. Numbers 2-2, we're told that the Israelites are standing by their banners and that they have the signs, oath. And that's another interesting connection to the stars, because the first time we get that word oath is talking about when God made the heavenly lights in Genesis 114.

And so as you noted, traditional interpretation assigns the image for each house or for each tribe according to Genesis 49, a combination between Genesis 49 and Moses' further blessings in Deuteronomy 33. and some of them are obvious. So Joseph is aligned with an ox, Rubin, with a man or mandrakes. And so each one has something specifically brought out about them that have traditionally been embraced, also understanding that Genesis 49 is prophetic. And so Jacob isn't just saying goodbye. He isn't just saying, you know, these are,

qualities I like about you. These are prophetic and then a lot of those are picked up again when Moses closes out the penituc. And the one line where this becomes utterly crucial and confirmed is of course with Judah, who has that line imagery. We come to numbers 24 and we have this Oracle about the star that's coming out of Jacob, but it's tied in with the same line imagery, almost a quote of Genesis 49. And then again, in John's apocalypse, he specifically calls the Lord Jesus Christ the lion of the tribe of Judah. And we got to ask, where did that come from? And the fascinating thing, it doesn't come from any explicit statement telling you the banner look like this or this is the assigned figure, but it's from the same deduction that everyone is making or used to make, certainly in Judaism still making, from the

blessings in Genesis 49. And so if we take that seriously, then the four main tribes, we have a lion for Judah, we have a man for Rubin, we have an ox for Ephraim, and then we have, and this is the one that changes the most is, whether it's sometimes, a scorpion or a snake or typically an eagle grabbing each. And what makes that so amazing is when we turn to Ezekiel and that heavenly chariot that we're saying, the earthly camp is the earthly counterpart of the heavenly chariot. We find these, they're later called cherubim, but they've got four faces of a lion and a man and an ox and an eagle. So one example, medieval comment I believe it was Ibn Ezra in Numbers 2-2. He just makes this off-the-cuff remark,

oh, that's the charity Ezekiel Saul. And it was like so obvious. But what I found is many commentators, Christian as well, up until about 100 years ago, would acknowledge these and somehow, I don't know, it just dropped off. And so because I've experienced before some of these rabbinical connections and medieval exegesis are intuiting things that may sound strange, but if we dig deeper, actually there, I did a good study of Ezekiel 1 and found just some fascinating connections, the way that the camp is described as stopping and moving. It's very similar to the way that God's chariot stops and moves, and then a big one is the chariot is described as having the sound, and most English translations say of an army, but it's actually

the sound of a machin, it's the sound of a camp. And so there's good arguments to say that, yeah, Ezekiel is pointing to this camp. And you do have, of course, the medieval and earlier association of the four gospels, the evangelists with the poor faces of Ezekiel. And that is a very, very, very well-established tradition that you'll see in lots of symbolism. If you look in many church windows from a century or more ago, you'll see the associations just in the imagery that is taken up there. No matter what association is made, the assumption that the four must be associated with those four beasts,

somehow or other, and the associations can vary, I think it's notable. So sometimes Mark will be the arps. In other occasions, he's the lion, as in the symbolism of Venice. Venice has the lion as St. Mark. It seems to me that the associations of stars and rule, you mentioned Abraham earlier,

you mentioned Baelum's prophecy, and the constellations seem to play an important, role representing the gathering of stars as agents of rule. Where else can we see these sorts of symbols being developed in scripture? Where else do we? We have this association. We're maybe taking it up in numbers. Where does that go from there? Yeah, I think, well, you mentioned Abraham earlier and his children likened to the starry host but also in numbers again numbers 24 it's amazing that this messianic promise alludes to a specific star that a star will trek forth from Jacob and so I think that's a good argument

and a lot of it is also with the original audiences context and there's the part of the problem is there's a verroval of views. It's not monolithic. And we need to, for example, separate astronomy from astrology. But there was a wide understanding that God uses means in his sovereign control and the stars are likened to his angelic hosts that are used for this purpose. And so, you know, there's a lot of astral imagery. And I think even the references to worshiping the starry host of heaven is giving us some of that context. But in terms of the constellations, many would just align that as well with the cosmic symbolism. You know, I think Poitrous in one work talks about the seven lamps of the menorah likely referring to the seven planets. And some of these, you know, it's hard to say,

thus says the Lord, but there is cosmic imagery. And so it wouldn't be outside the realm. Now, in terms of interpreting scripture with this lens, I've mentioned Philo and Josephus, and they're helpful because they at the very least give us a first century Jewish understanding of scripture, and they're constantly make, whether it's the high priest's breastplate or the camp, making reference to the 12 constellations. And so there are zodiac mosaic, found in ancient synagogues from the Byzantine area like the 4th through the 6th century. And one of them in Hamath-Tiberius is huge and central. And so we at least get the impression, you know, however, people want to understand that

as that a big stream of Judaism was making this connection. Now, in terms of the camp, I need to study these further. As far as I can recall, I mean, there's a handful of these, maybe six of them. I don't know that any of them link the months and the zodiacal constellations to the actual tribes. So they'll have the names of the months and the names of the zodiac signs. But again, we have Philo and Josephus who are writing before these mosaics and already making that connection to the 12 tribes. So, and there have been evangelical guys in the past that have really embraced what they call a gospel to the stars. I reference some books that make it make a case for that in the commentary.

At the end of the day, it, you know, I think I mentioned to you on social media that I had originally wanted to do a whole monograph because there's just so much out there. There's so many resources. There's so many questions I still have before. the sake of the commentary, you know, I didn't definitively land on anything other than to say there is cosmological symbolism, there is in scripture, clear connection between the stars and God's people. And I think there was a line from Wenham that, you know, at the very least, it is the part of the theology is to compare God's people to the starry host and answer to the Abrahamic promise. It seems that if we were to choose a now,

of representative tribes, would certainly as leading tribes choose Judah, obviously. Maybe Rubin is the leader of the Transjordanian tribes. And Ephraim would be an actual as well. But Dan has always seemed to be an odd one out, particularly maybe due to its later history in the book of judges. And then it's being dropped out of the list altogether in the Book of Revelation. and do you have any thoughts on the inclusion of and the inclusion and the place of Dan? I don't. It's a great, it's a question that I have. Simeon drops out the soon as we've already mentioned that,

but then Dan in Revelation, it's an enigma. We do get the impression from the book of judges. However, it may seem to have a negative view. And Dan is always sort of at the bottom. bottom of the list. So, I mean, that kind of taints our understanding of Samson because the ideas we're getting worse and worse and worse. But at the same time, many scholars acknowledge that this is also in a way emphasizing Dan in an unusual way. And many, and I know there's guys writing commentaries now on judges that are going to have a very positive view of Samson, which I'm

curious to read. But in terms of in the placement of the camp, you know, I have a few charts. There there is a logical way to do it between the two wives with Leah getting priority over Rachel and then the handmaidens. But other than that, I don't know. That's a great question. I've always found it challenging to find the logic of the movement of the tribes between Numbers, Ezekiel, and then into Revelation. Yeah, it is not an easy one.

And there is a very natural relationship between the zodiac and time. We tend to think about the camp very much spatially. And we can think about many things in scripture spatially that maybe are described in a more temporal fashion when we consider the itinerary through which we move. Maybe the camp, the temple of Ezekiel, for instance, has a sort of itinerary in the way that it's described, or the description of the tabernacle in Exodus 25 to 31 seems to follow, to my mind, a twofold creation pattern. And there is a logic with each one of the elements of it connected with one of the

days of creation in these two overlapping cycles where the gaps in the one are filled by the other, 25, 29, and then 30 to 31. And it seems when you're thinking of the zodiac, that there's a movement through them. And Austin Farrer and others have argued in our reading of Revelation that there is a sort of zodiacal sequence to the events that are described. Is there any hint of anything like that within numbers? I mean, you do have the itinerary of the wilderness wanderings later, but I'm not sure that's... Right. I didn't find a connection there, but it just... Could be my mind was really fatigued at year eight when I was when I was there. So I mean,

the one impression that I really got after concluding chapters one through 10 is that this is like another creation of the cosmos. Genesis 1, everything is in order. Sacred time is clearly very important. The lights are there for the meeting times. And so it would make perfect sense to me that we also have that factor of time in the way that the tribes are arranged and according by their sign, but that would be work that I would still need to pursue for my own understanding. Could you remark briefly upon the place of the Levite families at the heart of, at the heart of the rest of the camp? And is there any relationship between the families and the different tribal groups that are on each of their cardinal directions.

Yes, a great example that was picked up by ancient interpreters for the Coral Rebellion. And we notice that the sons of Rubin are also involved in that, and that Korah's tribe, they encamped with Rubin. And so you have all of this gap filling about them griping. they were firstborn sons who were basically passed over in the new hierarchy, and so that that comes out. And so, yeah, that whole section, chapter 16 through 18, is demonstrating that even though God's people, the 12 tribes, are in covenant with the Lord

and have been redeemed and sprinkled with the blood, Nexus 24, that nevertheless, God is so holy that to have this covenant relationship, they need the Levitical tribe, which basically represents the firstborn sons. The assumption seems to be that firstborn sons would have been the natural priests in the family in order to cause some distance. And then after chapter 18, some would argue that it's not new. It's just reemphasizing. but in either case, they become what Jacob Milgram calls the lightning rod so that if there is an incursion into God's presence by someone not authorized, God's wrath will fall upon these Levites so that the people of God can be spared. I think there's a great gospel hint there.

Is there any argument that the Levites associate with each one of the sides would settle within the lands in their levittical cities of those respective tribes later on i think that it that is a good um suggestion and almost assumption it's it's hard to determine that when they're allotted because you're given levitical cities and not told which particular um house of the levites are but that basic idea that I've sort of alluded to already, that once you're in the land, you're in a sense replicating the camp in a way that, of course, can't be according to the same blueprint. But nevertheless, there are enough maybe parallel language and ideas to get that message across. So I did in the second volume a little study on the cities of refuge, and it's almost like

there are many camps the way that they're described, but they're sprinkled throughout, and the idea is the same. So we've been principally discussing material within the Pentateuch more broadly, and the book of numbers in particular, the first few chapters. But we're reading this from perspective of Christians who are also reading this as the Old Testament connected to the broader realities of the New Testament that shape our lives within the church and our expectation of the future, et cetera. How should we read these chapters as Christian scripture? Is there a way in which we can relate the themes of this text to our lives? Yes. And maybe to answer this in the most helpful way for our listeners, if I could just give a brief reading strategy and then apply it to

a Christian reading. And I'll just cover the opening major sections of the wilderness sojourn. So I mentioned that this threefold camp, the 12 tribes, the Levites, God's camp in the center. As soon as you begin the wilderness sojourn, you're basically reading at, as if you were crawling through the blueprint of the camp. And one great hint for this is the opening judgment of God in Chapter 11, says that is fire burned among the outskirts of the camp. And we're working our way through the outer camp. And so chapters 11 through 15 are all about those 12 tribes,

that outer great camp. The word Levite is not mentioned anywhere there. And then sure enough, when we get to chapter 16, we read about Korah's rebellion and the Levittical Rebellion, So now we're talking about the Levitical inner camp through 18. 19 is a transition chapter. Then we get to chapter 20 where Moses very sadly fails. He misrepresents God's kingship.

And that takes us to God's camp in the center. If you have that reading strategy in mind, you see that God in each of those three divisions defends his representative. The 12 tribes specifically need to obey the word of the Lord through Moses the Prophet. It is that office of prophet that gets slandered and God vindicates Moses in Numbers 12. When we get to chapter 16 through 18, the office of the high priesthood of Aaron gets slandered and God vindicates it with that budding staff. And then, of course, in chapter 20, it's God's office of kingship that gets misrepresented through Moses and God vindicates himself

through those gushing waters. And so one way to read through this section is to make that correlation with the offices of anointing and the Anointed One, Christ, so Christ, our prophet, priest, and king. The New Testament never denigrates Moses in order to exalt Christ. You're going from good to greater. And so like the author of Hebrews, actually quoting from Numbers 12, Moses was faithful in all my house, but Jesus, God now speaks to you, not through a servant, but through a son and the fullest revelation has come through him and if they were accountable for not heeding God's word through most how much more so are we and then in chapter 16 through 18 God cares you can just use that text within an Old Testament context to put off so much of

the worldly reasoning we hear today you know that there's all these different ways to God God doesn't care. He just wants our sincerity. This is with his own people and even Levites. God is consuming because they're not approaching him through the way and through the man that he's designated. And so you find literally in the middle of the book you have a life out of death resurrection sign. All these dead staffs of wood errands comes to life. It blossoms and shoots forth almonds. and what's really fascinating about that wonder is the candelabra that represents God's presence, the tree of life was an almond tree. And it is as if Aaron's dead staff has somehow been grafted into, I don't know, God himself

shooting forth almonds through it. And so this life out of death sign he uses to declare to all is, he says put away rebellion forever that if there's any question, who I have chosen for you to draw, drawn near to me through its Aaron's house. And it's remarkably similar to the New Testament proclamation, that there's one name under heaven given by which men must be saved, and that God declared Jesus to be the judge of living and dead by the resurrection from the dead. And then kingship, where Moses fails is where the Messiah, the Lord Jesus, conquers.

John's gospel tells us, no man has seen God faith. to face. I think that's a reference to Moses. God spoke with him face to face, but it was an idiom, and he didn't actually, but the son who came from the bosom of the father, he has revealed him, and he expresses the kingship of God, even now exalted to his right hand. And so you have those offices, and then there's other types along the way. We literally have to go chapter by chapter. There are so many things. And then the Balaam oracles, of course, give us just beautiful, golden messianic prophecies. But Moses, I think if you keep your eye on him, there's often a great bridge to the greater mediator. And as you say, there are so many references typologically and otherwise

can think about the rock that followed them or the reference to the serpent lifted up in the wilderness or the way that in that same passage where Paul talks about the rock following them, he lists a number of the events that being attacked by the serpents or 23,000 falling in a single day because of sexual immorality. There are these series of events that are paradigmatic for the journey of a new camp through the wilderness, as it were. That's right. Yes, and one of the lessons just in that language you're using which, of course, the author of Fiebers uses as well. And Paul 1st, Corinthians 10 is the how God leads. and feeds us through this wilderness life and you know Paul makes that connection to

the sacraments and these are the things that strengthen us and they're the very things that when we relegate the place of the church and the means of grace are the very reasons why we become spiritually lethargic and even rebellious they detested the man of the very provision God gave them so yeah there there's a lot of application and that really hits it, I think, is we are in the wilderness. We are journeying to the new heavens and the new earth. And so the book of numbers, because of its emphasis on ecclesiology, the covenant community and the need to persevere through the wilderness is just so applicable to life today for God's people. That's one of the most striking things for me is that the very final two chapters of the

Bible, returned to an ordered camp, now a city. And all these themes of numbers, chapters one and two, particularly, refracted through Ezekiel, the end of Ezekiel, come up again as the climax for the whole thing. And so maybe that itself is an indication that maybe we miss things in numbers that are worth going back and digging into again. Yes. And you're mentioning of Revelation reminded me. Through some other studies, an insight came to me, and the commentary was supposed to be done. And we're just on the final, final, final editing. I know the experience is terrible. And I was like, I have to add this in. And so I had to take what would have been basically a great essay and fit it within two chapters, or excuse me, not two chapters, I wish, two sentences.

And to do that, I had to like delete like 10 other sentences. But revelation ends with this beautiful trinitarian picture of God's throne, the lamb, and the water's gushing forth. It's like God the Father, the land that was slain Jesus, but emphasizing his priestly work through which the Holy Spirit can be poured out as life-giving water. And I found what I think is, at the very least, we might call a premonition of foreshadowing of that in Numbers 20, where you, part of it. the sign of God's reign for the second generation is he wanted to pour out the waters of life, which are almost always symbolic of the Holy Spirit. And you have Moses there who represents

God's reign, but he's standing there with the high priest and that butted rod, the priestly ministry that enables the life of God to flow to the people. And so in a very skewed way with Moses, Aaron and the waters, you get this hint of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the same image with which the Bible closes that I just thought was so beautiful. Thank you so much for joining me. This has been Michael Morales talking about his commentary, numbers 1 to 19 in the Apollos Old Testament commentary series. And the second volume of that commentary is coming out very soon,

chapters 20 to 36. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me, Alistair. It's been a joy.