Algorithms + Data Structures = Programs - Episode 200!

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

In this episode, Conor and Bryce follow up on a conversation from 2.5 years ago.Link to Episode 200 on WebsiteDiscuss this episode, leave a comment, or ask a question (on GitHub)TwitterADSP: The PodcastConor HoekstraBryce Adelstein LelbachShow NotesDate Recorded: 2024-08-26 & 2022-03-27 & 2024-09-18Date Released: 2024-09-20ADSP Episode 71: APL, COBOL, BASIC & MoreADSP Episode 72: C++ Algorithm Family Feud!NDC TechTownBayesian CredibilityIntro Song InfoMiss You by Sarah Jansen https://soundcloud.com/sarahjansenmusicCreative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY 3.0Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/l-miss-youMusic promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/iYYxnasvfx8

It had to do with the trajectory of our lives. You were, we were kind of making. Oh, I do vaguely recall this. We were, we were making predictions on, you know, where we would be. I don't, I don't remember what I predicted. Talking about how we're not going to talk about it. Now we're going to talk about it. So, but like, we're not talking about dating.

That was not the question. We didn't, you didn't ask me who's better at dating. You asked, who do you think is going to get married and kids first or just married first. It's not a dating podcast in general, but episode 200 is mostly a dating and forecasting podcast. Do you talk about tech at any point in this episode? No, I think literally the intro will be welcome to episode 200 of ADSP the podcast. Feel free to skip this if you're only here for the tech content. Okay, fair enough.

Welcome to ADSP the podcast episode 200, recorded on all of August 26, 2024, March 27, 2022, and September 18th and 19th, 2024. My name is Connor. And today with my co-host Bryce and our two partners, Ramona and Shima. We revisit a conversation from 2.5 years ago. Which brings us to episode 200, folks. Except it's not going to be 200. I think we're going to make this. I think what we're going to do is we're going to make this episode 201 and we're going to skip episode 200 for later. Because

I don't think we're ready for episode 200. At the end of, let's go and take a gander, folks. And maybe we'll end up talking about... I don't know what's go and take a gander, folks. And maybe we'll end up talking about. I don't know what's in store for me right now, but. Nothing's in store.

Nothing's in store. So we recorded episodes 72 and, or did we actually record, was it 72, 71? I feel like it's a real rug pull to everybody's going to be anticipating episode 200. No, but they don't remember. Folks don't remember. So episode 71 and 72 were recorded on March 27th, 2022, which today it is August 26th, 2024. So that was almost two and a half years ago. We have been recording for almost four years now.

November, what was it? November, let's go get, I don't actually know when the, well actually we can just click on episode zero. Our first episode aired on November 20th, 2020. We recorded it on November 14th of 2020. So it's August. We're two months short of four years. And I think we maybe have referenced this kind of special thing a couple times on random episodes. But at the end of that recording on March 27th of 2022,

two and a half years ago, just about, which ended up being episode 71 and 72, they were entitled, episode 71 was entitled APL Cobol Basic and More. And then episode 72 was called the C++ Algorithm Family Feud, which clearly would have been.

Oh, yeah, I remember. We ended up talking about, I think, the different ways to implement a problem based on the algorithms in the show notes. The problem was determining. I think that was a quiz. It was a quiz. And I don't think I did well. Well, no, it was a was a quiz in that like name the ways you can implement finding the top two values in a list of integers

in that I asked you questions that had answers well it's not exactly a quiz it was family feud so you know top seven answers on the board and anyways at the end of that recording there was 10 to 20 minutes of content that we were still recording for.

I mean, there was actually, I think, an hour, an hour and a half of stuff we recorded. But only 10 to 20 minutes of it is airable. And in that conversation, you have, I mean, I mentioned this to you, I think, 10, not 10 days, but like maybe 10 episodes. I don't know. Probably when you were in Toronto a month ago. Yeah. not 10 days, but like maybe 10 episodes. I don't know. Probably when you were in Toronto a month ago and you had zero recollection of having this conversation and what the contents of the conversation was. And in that conversation, you said, well, maybe we'll revisit this conversation at episode 200. But I think, I think we're just going to have to leave this as a teaser. Will it be episode 250 or will it be episode 300? Maybe episode 250 is good because we want to do something special. We can't defer episode 200 to be episode 300. We'd have to defer it to be... Wait, wait, wait. What was the thing? What was the thing that I said we would defer?

Well, if I mention it, then we have to end up talking about it. Well, let's do it but then the idea was and i haven't done the legwork for this is that i was gonna we were gonna listen to the you know 10 to 15 minutes and then we were gonna respond okay but i don't i don't have that stuff i mean i do have it on my computer over here but i mean i can redact this for the listener connor i I will make you a deal. I will make you a deal. All right.

If you get that content ready tonight, I will, on the first night of my vacation, I will listen and record a response. No, I think, well, here, let me, so this is, I'm trying to figure out when. You got to give me a hint. You got to give me a hint. It had to do with the trajectory Of our lives I do vaguely recall this We were making predictions On where we would be

I don't remember what I predicted Yeah so Episode 250 I mean unsurprisingly Is gonna be a year from now. So, yeah, we have an off by two based on this spreadsheet. I think I do now recall the predictions. I think I do now recall.

But I think we're going to have to. I should what? You should put it together and send it to me tonight so that I can record something. A response from Miami. Oh, so we can just record individually? That's what you want to do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess I could try and do that.

Yeah, yeah. We'll see how it goes. Got to deliver for the listener. We got to deliver for the listener. All right, wait. So let me do the math on this then. So episode 198 is going to be out on – so this would mean episode 200 is going to air on September 20th. You'll be, I think, in Italy at that point in time. No, no, I'll be back.

I'm back on the 17th. Wait, when am I going to Italy? Am I going to Italy? Do I not know about going to Italy? Were you going to Italy? Do I not know about going to Italy? Were you going to Italy? I thought you were. Oh, maybe that was last year you went. Didn't you go to Italy in September at some point?

Yeah, I did. That was last year. Okay. I would conflate it. I mean, Connor, you have to tell me if I'm supposed to be in a certain country. You know, when your co-host travels as much as you do, you conflate the months of the year and the countries that you're going to be in. So anyways, September 20th is supposedly when the listener is listening to this.

They just heard us talk for 10 to 15 minutes about how we weren't going to air episode 20. But at some point before... Episode 200. Oh, yeah. Episode 200. but at some point before episode 200 oh yeah episode 200 it's maybe it won't be tonight but at some point when bryce is on vacation you got you got to do it tonight because i'm going to be in a cruise ship i'm going to have like no internet connectivity for the first seven days you got to do it tonight well we got we've got three weeks though so you you you got it come on you got it you can't leave the people hanging you can't leave the

people hanging they're not hanging they're gonna get it on september 20th regardless of when you record oh oh you're gonna you're gonna put you're gonna use this for for episode 200 you're gonna i mean episode 200 is i mean the numbered episode 200 if we release an episode 200, will be on September 20th, no matter what. Yeah. Because we've got... Get Shima over here so I can negotiate with her to let you spend your evening doing this. She's out of the thing right now. So I really have no excuse why I couldn't do it.

Yeah, you get it. Send it over. All right. We will end our recording I guess we're going to record separate follow ups we are we'll do I guess a little phone tag

or maybe we won't even do phone tag we'll just do two separate tracks Bryce won't hear mine but I'll get to hear his and then I'll put it together and the listener can be entertained or not entertained. Maybe they didn't even make it this far into episode 200 because we've just been talking about how we're not going to talk about it. Now we're going to talk about it.

So. All right. Hopefully you enjoyed the rotate episode. If you didn't enjoy episode 200, we apologize. Yeah. If you've got a if you've got a if you've got a you got it if you got a parallel rotate algorithm call me like a year ago i would have just gone and spent like a month of my life just like cutting up myself but uh but i don't i don't have time for that anymore so somebody else go do the work bring bring me

bring me a high performance cuda rotate algorithm god what are we gonna to do when we have children? I don't know. I don't know. I'm getting old, man. Yeah, we are getting old. We are getting old. So the probability that that's going to end up happening decreases as every day goes by. All right, on that note.

You're like 30. You're still. all right on that note you're like 30 you're like 30 you've still there i'm sure i'm like i i hope that we have some if you've made it this far in the podcast we're just really gonna open up right now we probably have some some female listeners who are listening to connor say that oh no he's hit 30 and like now he's his prospects for having children are like done and they're probably not amused i didn't say that they're gone like you realize that as a guy like you you could have children like it is like another 20 years it is gender agnostic from the i'm a former statistician and actuary, from a statistical point of view, every day that passes by, regardless of what, actually, that's maybe not true.

Because, like, it's like the mortality curve of drivers is that there's actually, like, an uptick at some point, you know, because of, you know, people drive recklessly in their, like, early 20s. So, like, maybe, you know, past a certain point. Actually, not so. On average, average though i would say on average because that's the thing is if you're going through some career that like takes a lot of work maybe you become more eligible once that calms down and you you know you finish studying for something so like maybe maybe there are some curves for some individuals where like actually later into certain years the the probability goes up. But I think it's downhill for now from here on out for me. I don't think we're putting this in the episode. Your 30s is a period of time when people have kids these days,

with the exception of a few of our friends who wisely planned to have their children when they were younger so that they'll now be able to retire uh earlier answer me this mr mr lullback um how quickly do you think you go from being single to having kids because i may be 31 uh i don't and you're saying that's when people start having kids it's not like you go to the dating apps you swipe right and then and then two days later, you're having kids. I don't want to answer that question because I don't want to incriminate myself. I'll give you my answer. I feel like at our age, like two to three years, like you date for one year.

Then you get engaged. year then you like you get engaged and then you get married and then there's like one or two years this is gonna man this is gonna be so awesome because i'm gonna like i might try and find a way to put this in here there's a lot of editing that'll maybe i'll like save on to it for a later episode or some like bonus episode this and like in three years from now check in i'm gonna revise my i'm gonna revise my answer to like three to four years i'm gonna this is what it's gonna end up the bryce life roadmap on the bryce five-year life roadmap in five years i'll have i'll be married and have children see see i made i made a mistake in that you asked me a question and I originally, I answered by giving you like a timeline for execution.

And that was the wrong answer. Then I adjusted to the correct answer, which is, you know, the executive producer answer of the goal is in five years married with children. And I'll figure out the details of how i get there later obviously if it's four years from now then i'm like and i'm not married and don't have children then the timetable will be a little bit accelerated i see i see that's a lot i think that's consistent with my point of view too is it's like, you know, you've got this sort of roadmap, but like we're approaching the point where like, if in the next couple of years, blah, blah, blah,

yeah, that road is like, obviously. My mom had me when she was 35. I've got friends who've... That's the thing. I know you can get married and have kids at like 40 and stuff, or even, you know, kids comes a little bit questionable into your 40s and whatnot. But like, there's always the option to adopt and you can still

have a family. And I'm not saying that it's impossible. I'm just saying that as statistically, you know, I don't know which one of us is going to be married first. Oh, this'll be a whole, we can just keep chatting. This'll be a whole bonus episode. If you stick around until like episode you know 150 or 200 or something um probably you probably why me why do you think me

because i just i don't know i think you're like you're better at this kind of stuff you know you're more charismatic you weren't no no you definitely have to be better at dating than i am but like we're not talking about dating that was not the question we didn't you didn't ask me who's better at dating you asked who do you think is gonna get was it married and kids first or just married first yeah i think it yeah i think you are better at accomplishing goals that you set for yourself i'm not saying that i'm bad at that. My mother very much wants grandchildren, but she never nags me about it.

And I asked her a few years ago, why? And she tells me, you know, kid, after you dropped out of school and went like, you know, moved to Louisiana and just sort of forged your own path to getting a career. Louisiana and just sort of forged your own path to getting a career, I realized that like there was no point anymore trying to like provide you with guidance or encouragement that you were just going to do your own things and that like once you set your mind to something, you would make it happen. And I always just assumed that once you set your mind on the goal of like getting

married and having children, that you would approach it with the same intensity that you do everything else in life, and that there would be spreadsheets and charts and planning, and that you'd have all of it taken care of. She's not wrong. That is a perfect articulation of exactly what I was trying to say. I'm not saying I'm bad at dating. I'm not saying I think I'll be single for the rest of my life i'm just saying in terms of you know who's gonna get to the marriage finish line and

kids finish line first i just think that uh you are a better uh goal accomplisher and you've put that on your you put that on the roadmap and you know it's uh that means it's uh it's gg for anyone that's betting against you right now um anyways episode 72 over so how are i mean we can stop recording at this point hard things this is gold we'll use this one all right maybe we'll save this till um what is a thousand what is a thousand episodes that's like 20 years by episode 200 that gives me like 130 weeks or so that's like we're at 72 100 i i'm fairly confident i'll be engaged by the time we get to episode 200 uh this so this is a fun game predicting oh man i think that's the thing is like you're you're you're like i'm gonna do it

episode 200 definitely engaged maybe married i like i think about it and i'm just like uh i'm gonna be alone for the rest of my life you gotta you gotta have confidence man not that i really believe that. Yeah, I just don't know. I am debating. Well, I think I've ruled out inviting the Polish girl to, whose name is Ramona, inviting her to Family Passover because I like that girl and I'm fairly certain that if she came to Family Passover, she would never want to talk to me again

because my family is nuts. Testing, testing, testing. Well, I am here with the Polish girl. I was wondering, did we record that before or after I started dating Ramona? But given that I talk about the Polish girl whose name is Ramona, it must have been afterwards. But we were just laughing at the part about that I didn't want to invite her to family Passover. Because I was afraid that if I exposed her to my family that she wouldn't want to have anything to do with me.

And now, honey, do you have a choice to be whether or not you're exposed to my family? I do not. Yeah, she does not. And yeah, I mean, I guess you beat me to the punch because you're now engaged. But I will note that I am still dating the same person that I was dating when we recorded that. So that's something, right? Yeah? Honey, should we get engaged and married before Connor just to spite him? I suppose that's probably not a good basis for getting married. But we're very excited about your wedding, which I guess is going to be sometime next year.

We're looking forward to going to Mexico. Yeah, yeah. Not that all the listeners are invited, so we're not going to say where in Mexico. But I guess now it's just a race to who has children first. So, yeah, Connor, you're going to have to pop a few out there. Oh, man. Gosh, it's funny that we were recording that when we were 30 and we were lamenting how old we feel because during the trip that Ramona and I were just on, well, honey, what did you find? I found some gray hair on Bryce's head.

Now, I think the gray hair is fake news. She did take pictures, though, so it is a little bit hard to deny. But, you know, my hair is so important to my identity because it's great and amazing and my most attractive feature. And I was deeply distraught about it. Like, I had moments of existential dread. And, boy, do I wish I could go back to being 30 when I could like sleep through the night and when things didn't randomly ink. And I'm sure all of our

listeners who are, you know, a good bit older than us are just thinking like, ah, these kids, they have no idea. But yeah, it's funny that we thought we were old when we were, like, 30 and 31. Do you feel old, honey? Sometimes. You're not old. You're beautiful and youthful. I feel old, though. Oh, boy.

So by what episode do you think we'll be married, honey? I don't know. 300 maybe? What is marriage? Marriage is you get a big fancy ring. You can't get that without signing a paper? I suppose. I suppose technically. We could be a modern couple married differently.

I mean, technically we do reside together, um, and have resided together for a long period of time. So does that mean I deserve a ring? I mean, I think you deserve a ring. Oh, man. Well, I guess, Connor, it'll be interesting to see where we are by, like, episode 400. Maybe we'll both be married and have children. Yeah, yeah, I'd be interested what your timetable for that is for the kids part is

has the timetable uh uh adjusted any from uh from what you predicted uh what it must have been two or three years ago anyways I'm sure that this episode is gonna be very interesting all right well uh uh I'm going to send you over this recording so that you can put together this episode. And I hope to talk to you soon. We've been away for like three weeks. We were in the Galapagos and then Ecuador. And we saw a lot of birds in the Galapagos. It was amazing.

And we know how much you love birds. And we know that you're thinking about going to the Galapagos. It was amazing. And we know how much you love birds. And we know that you're thinking about going to the Galapagos for your honeymoon. And we highly recommend it. Yeah? Yes, we do. And make sure you cut me out from the podcast. All right. You heard it from Ramona.

But, yeah, you should definitely, definitely go to the Galapagos. Oh, and I had a great time at NDC Tech Town. Great little conference. I gave my talk on C++ Horizons, and I updated the part of the talk about reflection. And I'm now so excited about reflection that i think i'm going to make a whole talk dedicated just to reflection um because uh it is just a really cool feature and um and going through and updating the talk um all the examples became like 10x better

with some of the new uh refin to reflection, like token sequences. And now I'm just very convinced that it's the right model for C++. Anyways, hope to hear from you soon, buddy. And again, congratulations on your engagement. Bye. All right, folks. It's episode 200, September 19th. Less than, I'm pretty sure, it's almost exactly 12 hours away from when this episode will be releasing.

You just heard from Bryce and Ramona. And if that's the case, it's only fair that I bring on my beautiful fiance, Shima. But we're going to throw back because it's episode 200. The first thing, I guess not the first thing. The first thing you're hearing is my voice. The next thing you're going to hear, though, is guess what, folks? A lime. Bubbly.

Let's go. Shima's taking the first sip. Does it taste glorious? she gave me a thumbs up say hi hello and shima has listened to parts two and parts three which is the two and a half years ago recording from post episode 71 and 72 and she listened to what Bryce and Ramona had to say. So I am just going to turn the mic over to Shima, and she's going to do all the heavy lifting for the remaining 5 to 10 minutes of this episode.

Okay, sure, I can do that. So I have some thoughts. So my first thought was just how sweet you sounded when I listened back to that video. I was thinking about sweet you sounded when i listened back to that video i was thinking about how you connor challenge everyone's gender stereotypes because you are so looking forward to having a wedding getting married having kids which i thought was so sweet just warmed my heart very romantic guy and i felt very lucky to listen to that continue continue this is lovely okay well it's so hard right now the next thing

i'm going to say is to disagree with you about one of the things you said which is that fertility is gender agnostic so obviously as you know i'm a physician and i'm passionate about many things but one of those things is female age-related infertility and so strongly disagree demonstrably false that male infertility equals female infertility as people age. Do you want to challenge that and go into further details or will you accept that as fact? I will accept that as fact. I cannot believe you called age-related infertility gender agnostic.

Yeah. That's a bold claim. My bad. Okay. That's why I'm marrying a doctor, folks. We clarified it here. It's not gender agnostic. It's a bold claim. My bad. Okay. That's why I'm marrying a doctor, folks. We clarified it here. It's not gender agnostic. It's very, very different by sex.

Okay. And I guess the main other thing I wanted to say was that you all had a really hyper focus on finish lines. Like I think you guys said marriage finish line, kids finish line. It's not a finish line. It's a process. So there's another conceptualization I felt that I had to correct or bring up. Wait, and lastly, I thought it was interesting that you were catastrophizing.

So you said things like, I'm going to be here alone for the rest of my life. What brought that on? You were only 31, Connor. So much of life ahead of you still is. I mean, you're not thinking like a statistician. In actuarial science, there's something called Bayesian credibility and credibility theory. It's a Bayesian estimation, but it's this idea that like you have a prior estimate of what the probability of something is. Maybe it's flipping a coin is like 50-50, which is a bad example because we know that actually is 50-50. But if it's some unknown event, like, you know, what's the probability that this person will get married, aka me? Maybe we think that's like 85%, you know, because I'm a catch. But as time goes on and it does not happen, you are informing the prior estimation with like it not happening.

And therefore, like you keep on updating like, oh, the probability that he will get married is just going to decrease over time. The longer that that doesn't happen, the more and more you're updating your prior estimation of the probability of it happening. And it's just going down. Like, it's just statistics. It's not, I'm not saying it's hopeless. It's like I said, you know.

So all I hear is the initial cognitive distortion of a catastrophizing followed by the defense mechanism of rationalization. So I'm just going to say that you were catastrophizing. I'm not catastrophizing. This is statistics. I'm a link in the description or in the show notes, folks. I'll also put a link in for defense mechanism. You can't put a link in.

I'm the one that puts the links in. You send me a link and I'll think about putting it in. Okay. And I guess then now getting on to what Bryce and Ramona said. So Bryce said it's a race to having children first. Just wanted to remind him there's no race. There's no end game, just a process. And he also commented on how he looks back at that podcast and was thinking how he's so young. And I was just thinking how in a couple of years he will look back on this podcast and think again that he was

so young. So I hope that he recognizes that he's super young. And I guess that's it. Those are my main thoughts. So I just gave you all my thoughts. What do. And I guess that's it. Those are my main thoughts. So I just gave you all my thoughts. What do you have to say? What was it like for you to listen to that now? I love you. You're very smart. And that's why I'm marrying you.

No, not to me. What was it like to listen to that old episode again? Oh. What was it like to listen to me two and a half years ago? Must have been pretty weird. I guess you're used to listening to yourself. I think it... He does a lot of talks, folks.

He talks a lot, folks. I do have more podcasts than the average person. And a YouTube, quote underscore report. Yes. Check it out. I think that I literally a year ago had a plan to kind of start traveling the world and would not have predicted that I was going to meet you. And I think you heard that kind of in my voice from two and a half years ago.

Utter despair. I wasn't giving up hope. But just like you date for a decade, a decade and a half. And I wouldn't say it was like an absolute tragedy. But like you're not meeting the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. And after like a decade or a decade and a half of that. Like I said, you're not giving up hope. But you're like, how long does it take? A know, a lot of my friends have already met that person

and got married and it just wasn't happening for me. And you, I think you heard that like in, you know, two and a half years ago, me, and I was kind of preparing to just like set up for a different life, you know, a life of traveling, working remotely, giving talks, being involved in the conference circuit. I get a lot of intrinsic value from meeting people, you know, different parts of the world that are just as excited about the technologies that I'm excited about or different technologies. It's just really cool to meet people. And I was preparing myself for that. And then out of the blue, I met you, fell in love. And yeah, so I just think it's a, you never know.

Don't give up hope, folks. There you go. We met on the dating apps. Now you're on the right messaging. It is, I know it can be a, what's the word? A slog. Yeah, I don't know if I'd use slog. I'd use the words morally destructive, morally destroying process of like,

you do it for a month and it just makes you feel despair and hopelessness. But we are the success story. And we know a couple other folks that are success stories of the dating apps. Lots of folks. Everyone meets on an app now. You don't meet on an app. But in order to meet on an app, there is a lot of going on dates with folks that you don't click with necessarily. And maybe sometimes it can feel like it's it's i know this isn't a dating podcast

it's not a dating podcast in general but episode 200 is mostly a dating and forecasting podcast so do you talk about tech at any point in this episode no i think literally the intro will be welcome to episode 200 of adsb the podcast feel free to skip this if you're only here for the tech content so then I will say that the only way you can make it through all that dating stuff is to think of it as an opportunity to go out explore hobbies meet people have fun you can't kind of think of it as all or nothing every time you're going on a date or you'll feel soul crushed perfect way to end it don't give up hope folks be sure to check these show notes either in your Think of it as all or nothing every time you're going on a date or you'll feel soul crushed. Perfect way to end it.

Don't give up hope, folks. Be sure to check these show notes either in your podcast app or at ADSP the podcast dot com for links to anything we mentioned in today's episode, as well as a link to a get up discussion where you can leave thoughts, comments and questions. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed and have a great day. Low quality, high quantity. That is the tagline of our podcast. It's not the tagline. Our tagline is chaos with sprinkles of information. Tune in next time for your new co-host, Ben Dean, either interviewing Sean Parent or just talking to Ben Dean. What do you mean me? Are you going to be there too? I'll be there, yeah. I just saw the tweet from Sean Parent saying that he appreciated our apology,

and he was talking about the three different algorithms used for std rotate for random access, bidirectional, and forward iterators. It's going to be talked about, folks, either with Sean Parent or with Ben Dean or with both of them. Maybe we'll try to set up both. We've got a busy schedule coming up in the next three weeks, but we're going to try and get both of them on. How are you going to edit this?

We're all over the place. What do you mean? That is, you're way more on topic than Bryce is. This will be easy to edit compared to him.