Algorithms + Data Structures = Programs - Episode 73: CppNorth, Bagels & More!

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

In this episode, Bryce and Conor interview Jason Walter and Patrice Roy about the upcoming CppNorth conference and more!TwitterADSP: The PodcastConor HoekstraBryce Adelstein LelbachAbout the Guests:Jason Walter is a lead tool programmer at Epic Games Canada working on the Virtual Production Tools teams. He is on the board of directors of CppToronto, a non-profit organization that provides an open, inclusive, and collaborative place where software developers can meet and discuss topics related to C++ software development and currently an organizing member of the CppNorth conference. In his free time, he enjoys spending time with his family, photography, and riding his road and gravel bike.Patrice Roy has been playing with C++, either professionally, for pleasure or (most of the time) both for over 30 years. After a few years doing R&D and working on military flight simulators, he moved on to academics and has been teaching computer science since 1998. Since 2005, he’s been involved more specifically in helping graduate students and professionals from the fields of real-time systems and game programming develop the skills they need to face today’s challenges. The rapid evolution of C++ in recent years has made his job even more enjoyable.He’s been a participating member in the ISO C++ Standards Committee since late 2014 and has been involved with the ISO Programming Language Vulnerabilities since late 2015. He has five kids, and his wife ensures their house is home to a continuously changing number of cats, dogs and other animals.Show NotesDate Recorded: 2022-04-14Date Released: 2022-04-15Tony van Eerd on TwitterC++Now 2022 Program AnnouncedCppNorth ConferenceCppNorth on TwitterC++TO Toronto MeetupPatrice Roy’s WebsitePatrice CppNorth WorkshopCppNorth Keynote SpeakersCppNorth WorkshopsIntro Song InfoMiss You by Sarah Jansen https://soundcloud.com/sarahjansenmusicCreative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY 3.0Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/l-miss-youMusic promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/iYYxnasvfx8

I had, there's a new, I don't actually remember the name of the place, but there's a Montreal bagel place that just opened in Toronto. And they had these very small, the holes were very large in them. I was a bit confused on why there was not more bagel. And I gotta be honest, I was like, I took a bite and was my first thought was this is not as good as the bagels I had in New York. Oh, you heard it here first. I swear I did not pay Connor anything for that. Welcome to ADSP The Podcast, episode 73, recorded on April 14th, 2022. My name is Connor.

And today with my co-host Bryce, we interview Jason Walter and Patrice Roy on the upcoming CPP North conference in Toronto, Canada, as well as bagels and so much more. Dear listener, this is Connor from the editing bay. And I just quickly wanted to let you know that there were a plethora of issues, audio issues, issues of Bryce hopping around from topic to topic. So one, the audio at about the 40% mark is going to get slightly worse due to the fact that we had to switch to the audio from the Zoom recording. And also chopping this episode up is probably the hardest episode I've had to edit so far. So we're going to be jumping around. This episode is going to be primarily focusing on CPP North and related topics. And we'll have a second part to this episode that's going to focus on the other tangential topics that we talked about.

So strap in, enjoy. And in two weeks' time, hopefully we'll be back to crystal clear audio for the duration of the full podcast. All right. Well, maybe we should just go ahead and get started. I mean, this will be the second time out of three times that we've had two guests on where one of the guests did not show up. So we got a really bad track record. We're at a 67% track record of our starting with only one guest. And no, did that happen with that? Did that happen with Patricia and Chandler?

Oh, no. Four times. Whoops. My bad. Boom. Boom. All right. So, yeah, if the avid listener will be trying to think in their head.

So, yeah, we had Patricia. And when we had when we had Eric and his dad, they were both on. Yeah. So it seems like when you're there except for today both guests show up but when we did the c++ now recording which you weren't there for because you were busy working on your talk um tony didn't show up until like halfway through so that's typical tony i mean is that is he the only canadian of all of the folks that we just mentioned so maybe it's a canadian thing although jason you're canadian right i'm dual i have both

so that's why that's why you showed up on time trony vanner does not show up late he shows up exactly when he's needed no he was needed at the beginning this happened all the time on the c++ committee where like you'd be in a room and you'd be talking about something and then very suddenly like tony would like ask some question and you'd be like oh when did tony get here and it's always like a really important question no i'm gonna stick with my theory that only the canadians have not shown up. And potentially we'll be two for two on Canadians showing up mid-podcast. Yeah.

Because I don't think, yeah, I don't think Patricia and Chandler. So speaking of C++ Now, C++ Now is coming up in two weeks. It's coming up in two weeks. The program was just published. I'm going to be giving a talk there about C++ standard parallelism, all the cool parallel programming features in C++ and all the cool parallel programming features that we're planning to add to C++

in the next few years. And there's some very exciting keynotes. And I just think it's going to be a great program. It'll be really cool because the first time I went to Aspen was for BoostCon 2011, which was the conference before C++ Now. And it was a two-track conference at the time, and it was about maybe 50 or 60 people. And this year, C++ Now will be a two-track conference, and it'll be about that same number of people. So it'll be the same size and scale as when I first attended back at the start of my career.

So I'm excited for it. Are you excited for another conference too, Bryce? I am excited for another conference. I'm actually very excited for C++ North. So I'll tell you how excited very excited for C++ North. So I'll tell you how excited I am for C++ North. C++ North, the last day of the conference

is July 20th. And July 21st is a national holiday in the US because it's my birthday. And I am choosing to go to C++ North and spend my birthday in Canada, which is like a big deal. I think I saw the tweet on this. I think I saw the tweet on this where you were asking for recommendations for restaurants.

I have already selected the restaurant that Connor is taking me to for my birthday, which is Aloe, which is supposed to be the nicest restaurant in Canada. You know, I was thinking yesterday, and we haven't even introduced our solo guest of the two that did show up, but I was already yesterday thinking, how quickly, when we get to the topic of CPP North, is Bryce going to mention his birthday? Will we even get to anything about CPP North before that comes up? And listener, you have not been disappointed. It was, I mean, I want to say it was almost negative time to CPP North.

It was CPP North and then boom. You know why I'm really excited about this conference? And I got to say, Bryce, you did not disappoint. I had high expectations for you and you delivered. You delivered. But it's going to be conference day, conference day, conference day, birthday. So it's just going to be a big party. But yes, let's introduce Jason Walter.

I don't actually know, Jason, if there are different titles on the board members for CPP North or if you are just a board member or do you have a special title for? No special title. No special title? Just a director. Just a director? Yeah, just a director. Just a director? Yeah, just a director. So yeah, maybe you want to introduce yourself and talk about how CPP North started,

as I'm sure most of our listeners know that this is the first time this conference will be taking place. And I think the first ever C++ conference in Canada? Yeah, I believe so. I think this will be the first C++ conference in Canada. Yeah. At least I'm not aware of another one. Yeah, so I guess I'll start back the origin story. We'll do the origin story here. So a colleague of mine, Mike Dom, he and I were working on a project together at Autodesk. And I think there was one day that we were together. And I remember him looking up and was like, is there a C++ meetup in Toronto?

And he was actively searching for a C++ meetup in the Toronto area. And he actually found that there was one that had been started a long time ago. But the person who had been organizing it had since left Toronto. And it was kind of just a stale meetup. So he kind of went off and he's like, I'm going to restart this. So he actually went out and reached out to the person had originally started the meetup, took over the meetup page, um, and started organizing, uh, actual meetups. And then along the way, he's like, do you want to, you know, co-organize with me? And I'm like,

yeah, sure. I'll help out. Like I kind of in the the mission of like inclusion and learning and uh just you know community we thought that toronto was a great c++ development community so it kind of started organically from there although mike will say that he always kind of had the plan for a conference and i was a bit resistant to it like i was like a conference sounds like a lot of work. Um, and you know, over time I, I kind of thought, yeah, I think we could do a conference here and I think there, it would be a great conference to do. So, um, about, um, two years ago, we kind of, you know, organized ourselves under the, uh, an organization called CBP Toronto.

We officially called it cpp toronto and then we established a board of directors so uh mike and i were on the the first board of directors and then we invited um uh three others so k gregory uh she has been an excellent advisor for us uh all along the way um i'm gonna butcher their names and I'm going to apologize now because I always butcher names. Natalie Liebenson and Diana Oeda were also asked to join. And so we started organizing meetups together as a board and then started planning a C++ conference. So the original goal was to do a conference in July of 2021. But obviously, there were things happening around the world that were not a good time to plan a public get-together or event. And so we decided, you know, let's put a stake in the ground and do our first conference in July of this year, July 2022.

So that's where we are. So, I mean, and our mission all along has kind of been having a place that people can connect and learn and have fun about C++. You know, we were doing meetups in person, and then we did them virtually and we invited, you know, the world to do those virtually with us.

And we now wanted to just invite the world to come to Toronto, which we think is a great place to kind of, you know, that kind of underlines the themes that we have. Like we believe in diversity, inclusion, culture, you know, and anyone, we believe anyone should, should be able

to learn C++ and be a part of the community. So that's, that's where we are now. So we're looking forward to inviting people. That's great. Yeah. And I think, I think I participated in one of the C++ Toronto virtual meetups. I feel like you participated in a couple. You did one of the debates. I can't remember if you were the moderator or the person making arguments. I think maybe one time you were a moderator and one time you were arguing. There was like, what belongs in the C++

standard library? I feel like Tony and you were both on a panel because you were going back and forth. That's right. I think, yes, it's the first Conference of Canada, but I think it's another first, which is, I believe it's the first C++ conference on the eastern seaboard, unless time zone at least. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that is true. That's a good point.

How come New York's not had a conference? There have been some talks about a Gotham C++ conference. Look at this. The two podcast hosts of ADSP setting up rival conferences, probably at the same time in the future. You know, when we were considering new locations for CppCon, the finalist locations were sort of either going to be this, the Denver location that was selected. And the other location I think was going to be somewhere in Atlanta.

And I think that would have been great. Yeah. But the, you know, there's having the conference on the Eastern seaboard I think is, is great because it's easier for folks from Europe to get there. And it's not that much of a stretch for West coast folks to get there. And it's not that much of a stretch for West Coast folks to get there. Obviously, it makes it harder for anybody from Asia to attend the conference. But I think it was already pretty challenging if you were to go to something like, you know, CppCon if you were in Japan. Whereas if you're in London going to C++ North versus something like CppCon when it was in Seattle, you'll cut the flight time in half basically.

So I think we'll see more of an international audience at this conference. No, and I think Toronto is a very accessible city across the world, like a lot of direct, like it's the largest airport in Canada. So, you know, a lot of flights come in, it's very easy to get to from Europe and from, you know, Asia, even there's direct flights from Asia into Toronto. It can also be easier for an international audience to get a tourist or a travel visa to go into Canada than it can be in some cases to get into the U.S. Look at this. Bryce is putting together like a little pitching deck for us. I never even thought about that. But it's true that the first time I flew to Europe from Toronto, I was confused on why it only took like five or six hours, because every time in my life I had flown to Europe at

that point, I had been on the West Coast, which is like an extra whatever, you know, three, four or five hours, depending on exactly where you are. And I was like, I remember taking longer to get to Europe. But obviously, that's because you're on the other side of the country, which at the time I had not put together. So. So, yeah, it's very exciting. I mean, Canada is one of the great, you know, C++ hubs. So I suspect you'll see a lot of local Canadian programmers there. We even, if you look at Toronto itself, I mean, there's been some recent news articles that identify Toronto as one of the fastest growing tech centers in North America now. Compared to San Francisco, New York, Austin, you know, all the big places, you know, Toronto is

right up there. So it does seem like there's a real exodus from, from the Bay Area, like half of my colleagues have moved to New York around the same time that I did. Yeah, aren't there several different like, you know, of the FANG or MANG or, you know, MANIA or whatever the acronyms are? Like, I think Google, they're building a big office actually right by the hotel that the conference is taking place at. And I think there's some purported number of jobs that they're bringing into the city with that building. And I feel like there's a couple other companies as well that are you know setting up shop I think Toronto was on the short list of companies for Amazon's h hq2 which they obviously didn't end up getting but which may or may not have been a good thing or bad thing depending on who you ask um and you know we had we had we hosted a committee meeting in Toronto I feel like uh it was the summer of 2016 um maybe maybe there's going to be another committee meeting in uh uh in the future because hey all i'm saying if we did if we did c++ north around the same time in year uh in 2023 that's around the time when the c++ committee meets yeah so i could have you could do the committee meeting the week before and then everybody come

to the conference i would be more than happy to invite you know have the committee come up here and yes we are planning on it there'll be a 2023 edition of cpp north um so wasn't there or maybe this maybe i'm not recalling this correctly but at one point in time was the tentative plan like wasn't there a plan Montreal committee meeting and then uh the conference was going to be juxtaposed with that was that the tentative plan or is that we had I think we did reach out to the committee and they they had plans to meet in either Montreal or New York City like I think I can't remember exactly there wasn't montreal actually you're right there was prior to covid there was a montreal meeting scheduled for the 2021

yeah uh time frame and i think that's you know we kind of aligned our dates around that initially and um and then there was a new york one the next year which we were kind of aligning with but then that obviously also yeah unfortunately although that was not a new york meeting that was a jfk meeting a what it was a meeting at the jfk airport i know i i actually was pretty excited because it was at the old it was there's this hotel at the old twa terminal at jfk and that's where where we were going to host the meeting and it's supposed to be a really cool hotel a lot of aviation history history. As Connor knows, I love planes. This is true. I love planes.

Now, the only problem is I literally would have had to stay at the hotel. It is impractical to commute from Manhattan to JFK every day. It would be like an hour and a half if I took the train. And it would probably be as long if i took a cab and also be very expensive this won't surprise the listener but uh when bryce i've been at an airport with bryce and bryce likes to sit by the window and identify the 747 737s and he says i've got five planes out there he refers to them as his planes and i'm like what are you talking about bryce and he's those are my planes you know he's all right that's what 737 it's a whatever whatever oh this is awesome this is awesome which which lounge when was that bryce not even paying attention not even paying attention what just happened bryce i see i see when was that i'm

trying to remember when was that on the flight to to remember. When was that? On the flight to, it was in, it was in the crazy Europe trip of 2019. Yeah. In early November. Were we on the same plane? Were we sitting next to each other? We were at one point.

Cause you were trying to write some algorithm and you were like, I need your input on this. And I was like, I just want to read a book, but we have, we have to welcome. I was right. I had a theory. What? Or Bryce, you need to say But we have to welcome. I was right. I had a theory.

Or Bryce, do you need to say something? Yeah, yeah. I was going to say one of the great things about C++ North is that it's not at the airport. It's right in the heart of the downtown area. It's in a really good location. We've got lots of great quotes from Bryce here. It's a great international conference, easier to get into Canada, and it's not at an airport. And Patrice wasn't here for this earlier, but I had a theory that all of our Canadian guests, when invited on with another, they like to show up halfway through because there's another well-known Canadian, Tony, that did this before.

And Patrice has now made it two for two. Welcome, Patrice. How's it going? Doing fine. I was planning on being there at 10. So I'm kind of lucky I saw your email. I looked earlier today and I had 10 in my inbox. Oh, maybe it was a time zone thing.

Oh, yeah. Because don't they have the skip ahead, skip behind or something? Yeah. Or a daylight saving time thing. We're all in the same time zone. I am there. I'm glad to be there. Hi there. Hey, how you doing? it's been a while since

i've seen you you know those online meetings when you have a teaching schedule that they're kind of yeah yeah so we've got we've got professor patrice here and well okay here's another thing that that this is going to probably lead to more con edits, because I think that the answer here is in the negative. But is there a virtual option for C++ North if you want to attend the conference remotely? No, we decided we did not want to. Connor, you're going to have to cut this out later. Cut out this section right here. Why? It's a valuable information for the listener to know. Yeah. The stuff that I end up, you know, cutting out or cutting in. We've got a special

episode 200 coming for folks where if you listened to the last episode, I think it was episode 72. It ended right at a cliffhanger. We were talking about real serious life stuff and Bryce starts to go on a long-winded tangent about projecting his life into the future and so we're gonna release that in like three years because bryce don't even remember bryce makes some predictions he's like oh yeah by episode 200 that'll that'll definitely be the case for sure for sure oh yeah yeah yeah i now i remember yes yeah but we can't we can't talk about that too loud my mother is within within earshot oh yes yes that's fine we'll stay on topic all right so uh jason introduced or actually you didn't you introduced

the conference um and you briefly you briefly sort of mentioned that you worked i think at autodesk but do you want to finish introducing yourself and then we'll hop to patrice and patrice can introduce himself yeah so i um now i work at epic games i'm on the virtual production uh team developing tools for um for virtual production workflows mostly centered around in-camera vfx right now um and so that's my primary responsibility there do you know tim tim tim sweeney i i've met i've met tim and you know he's a met Tim, and he's very nice. I mean, I have all positive things about Tim. He would be great.

We should get him the keynote at a future C++ North. That would be so cool. I mean, you'd be sort of like, what do you call that? Throwing spaghetti at the wall or shooting blindly? Because his takes on C++, they're kind of hit and miss if you follow him on Twitter. Yeah. But I, I just, I love that he is like a CEO and that he has hot takes on about C++ on

Twitter. Like there's not a lot of CEOs that have hot takes about programming languages on Twitter. I'm just saying. That's true. Although that puts you in a boat with Elon Musk because he said things about programming languages. Please, let's not compare Tim Sweeney

and Elon Musk. Tim Sweeney is somebody that I have respect for. You know that he got a poster offer from Elon Musk at CBPCon at some point. It was really entertaining. It was really bad. All right. So now that you've just heard Patrice a couple

of times, we'll throw it to you, Patrice. And for those of you that haven't picked up, Jason and I are both in Toronto, whereas Patrice is close. He's actually sort of in between New York and Toronto. So I'll throw it to you, Patrice. Yeah, so I'm about five hours-ish away from both of them.

It's like a triangle. I'm in Montreal, yeah. So hi, I'm Patrice. I'm a professor, I'm a member of the committee, and I'm normally on time for my meetings. So where are you a professor? In two places. I have two full-time jobs. So I teach in a college named Collège, which is close to where I live, like a quarter by bus. And I also teach at Chabot University on two different campuses. One that's south of Montreal, which is public transit accessible, and one that's three hours drive away.

So depending on the days, I drive a bit or I just take the bus. And so you're a full-time teaching professor. Two times, yeah. I have two full-time jobs, which makes keeping up with meetings a bit complicated sometimes. And do you teach C++? Well, yeah, yeah. In college, they put C++ away recently. They went to a more web-oriented kind of thing, so they do other languages more now.

At university, I do only C++ stuff. I think this is the first time we've had an actual teacher on the program. Well, I'm glad to be the first. I hope I won't be the last. There are others, of course. Oh, yeah. I've been doing that for a long while. It's my 23rd year

doing that this year you know it's interesting i um i get asked a lot um these days by people for sort of like learning resources or how to get started with c++ or one question i get frequently it's like how do i learn like i want to get a job at nvidia how do i learn you know enough c plus plus to have the right skills for for y'all and i never know how to answer this question because i um i feel like i always learn very hands-on like i just immediately go to like experimenting and then you know exam completely example driven and so i never i i'm not somebody who learns well through like talks or books and what that, um, this is something that Connor and I have talked about in the past. Um, but I feel like,

I feel like as somebody who's, who gets asked this question a lot and who is like sort of seen as, uh, you know, one of the leaders in the C++ community, I should have a better answer to this. So maybe you can help me develop a better answer for like, like when people want learning resources, where should I point them? I actually have a good suggestion there. And I would say, and then this is actually resonates personally for me, because I think around 2018, I went to a conference and I attended a workshop and I, at the time I was kind of had C++ 11 knowledge, but nothing, you know, really more than that. And I went to a workshop at a conference and I kind of learned a little bit about C++17 and kind of brushed up some skills there. So I think

I think that kind of segues into one of the reasons we have Patrice on this call. Oh, that's really sweet. I don't think it's a matter of amount of C++. You put that in terms of quantity, but it's a very big language. You can actually focus on some things. I think you can learn about programming with C++ without problem. Connor and I have discussed that in the past.

You don't have to show anything complicated to get people started. And it's the kind of language that you can grow from and grow through and learn the things that you need along the way and get better at over time. But you can start very nicely with C++. If they want to do

something like what you do with NVIDIA, they will probably need to get a bit lower level from time to time. But they don't need to learn that right away. They can let it grow through them. It will work. Patrice, you mentioned that you teach most of the time in French, but you are going to be giving a class in English at CPP North. Do you want to tell us about that?

I will. I've done that quite a few times in the past, too. So, when your colleague Jason Mike contacted me saying, hey, we need a class there, do you have something to recommend or suggest? I went through a pile of things I had written as class proposals in the past. Now, the thing is, when COVID struck, there were training budgets here where I live. I said, well, prepare classes and we'll train people while they can go to work. And I had written a number of offerings like that. Some of them got used, some not.

And one of them was a generic introduction to generic programming thing over many languages, not just C++. And people hooked to that and said, oh, that sounds interesting. I'd do that, but just in C++ and please go deep. So I wrote something like that. It was quite a lot of fun, really.

I gave the class already once in French. We had a lot of pleasure. From the ground up, we start, you've maybe done macros and nothing else, and then you move way up to concepts and then pretty stuff going through traits and template parameters and stuff.

It was very well received. When I suggested that for CVP North, they said, well, yeah, but put more concepts because concepts are cool. So I said, well, concepts are cool indeed. So it's a generic programming class from the ground up. You start presuming that you know almost nothing and

well, you're not expert at the end because you need practice. But we go through stuff, look at lots of examples, try to make people understand what's important, why it's important, how it works. Debug yourself and you get your messages like RenewTemplates can provide you.

And yeah, make it something enjoyable for everyone so that when you get out of the class, you know what you're talking about. I think you have the best title too. You forgot to mention the actual title of it is Generic Programming from Strange to Normal. That's the intent. It looks weird when you start and in the end, well, and the actual title of it is Generic Programming from Strange to Normal.

That's the intent. It looks weird when you start, and in the end, well, it's like, well, I could do that for a living, and I'd be happy to do that. So that's, you know. I like people to get out of class and be happy about what they got. So I want them to maybe not feel they're proficient because 15 hours, it's not enough, but want to do more, enjoy yourself, know that you got the basics right,

and that you can actually solve problems yourself. So yeah, I think we're going to have a great time. That sounds like a really interesting course too, because there's going to be something for everyone, right? If you haven't done any sort of generic programming, you can still come and you're going to be starting from the ground up. But also, if you're with some familiarity, whatever level that is, C++11 sort of template metaprogramming or even you've started to dabble in c++ 20 it still sounds like uh folks that are interested are going to be able to come away

with having learned something at you know and it's sort of like depending on where you're at your learning curve uh you might find different parts of the course sort of oh that's the stuff that really clicks um which is which is kind, that's the stuff that really clicks, which is kind of, that's a kind of interesting model versus like some courses are just, you know, everything in C++20 and they don't do a lot of depth. They just do a lot of breadth. And if you try and cover that, like some of those courses are really, really good,

but you definitely aren't going to come away with the same kind of depth as compared to a course where you sort of just focus on one thing and go through that in detail. Yeah, but I think you need both kind of classes though so sometimes well the game people that i work with they pick from time to time the games people sometimes what they want to do is they're in between two projects and they want to know where the language is at right now so they want to you know the whole breadth of things and then they pick from that what they really need and they at least know about the rest, and that's totally fine.

Now, this class is more for our learning thing. So as you said, it's more of an in-depth thing. We must not forget that some people are stuck with C++11, C++14 in their day jobs, while people working at Unreal, they have limitations right now, and other tools too. So there are tricks that don't work with older compilers. There are tricks that do work with older compilers. There are tricks that do work with older compilers. So going from the ground up,

you can get ways to solve problems that are maybe sometimes not the most modern, even though we will see them, but that might help you in your day job because you're limited to tools that are six years back or something. So we'll try to make sure we cover everything there. Well, everything.

Sufficient material to get you working and efficient regardless of the original compiler you're using. I mean, we've talked about a couple topics before Patrice showed up, but we were talking about biking, trips between New York and Toronto. We talked about kittens. We talked about helicopter, military flight simulations. I don't even think we've mentioned exactly when CPP North is happening. Well, of course we did. We said it was before my birthday. Oh, yeah. But did we say when your birthday is?

Yes, we said that my birthday was July 21st. Oh, yeah. So maybe that's what now CPP North, unfortunately, to the ADSP listeners are going to know CPP North as. It's the three days preceding bryce's birthday and the two days preceding that is the workshops that we have yeah i wanted to say a couple more things about the conference before we wrapped up here so one um i you know i want to acknowledge our program chair first of all right he's got a it's not an easy job um so connor like i think has lined up a great program

we will be releasing the program here in the next couple days by the time this podcast goes out the program some version of a tentative program should probably be online one or two days after it so probably by the time the listener is listening to this, it'll be available in the internet. Yeah. And we have some keynote speakers, great keynote speakers lined up, Sean Parent, Kate Gregory, Titus Winters. I think, you know, for a first time program chair, those are amazing keynote speakers to have lined up.

So it should be a great conference. And then the last note I wanted to kind of leave here is because we're, we are releasing the program here just probably simultaneously with the, the podcast is that we know it's probably maybe a little late for people to get access to the early bird. So we are providing a special code that you can enter on registration to get the early bird rate up until April 30th. So that'll be ADSP CPP North that you can do on registration. Look at that. I didn't even know about that. And

I probably should have known about that, but wow, look at that. Our listeners, the listener, is it plural or singular in this case? I don't even know. It's the listener. It's always the listener. The listener, but there's multiple singular listener. I can't do it. Has access to, yeah, a special code. It's our first ever. We've been hoping for a sponsorship from Bubbly and Lululemon. That hasn't come through yet.

But in the meantime, you can get a discount with a special code. ADSP, CPP North. And on top of Patrice. So Patrice is giving a full day workshop. Or is it a full day, two day, full two day workshop. There's I think two other workshops as well. One's Guy Davidson, I think. Guy Davidson is giving something on game programming, isn't he? Yeah, Guy Davidson and Stephanie Brenham.

They're tied to being on a game development with low latency and high excellence is the title of their talk. It'll be the first time this workshop will be given at our conference. And then Rainier Grimm will be doing a concurrency, one with Modern C++. Good classes too.

Yeah, so I think, and I think so I'm not sure how many people are going to do this, but I know Bryce, you've already booked your sort of travel. And so I think you're coming like the week and before and saving to the weekend. So yeah, it's my typical,

my typical way of operating. So, yeah, I think for people that are considering coming, like that's a, a really nice option because the conference plus the workshops would be from Saturday till Wednesday. And then you could still have, you know, Thursday, Friday to check out, you know, the city. Because, I mean, if you're in Canada, people from Vancouver will say that like, oh, Vancouver is the most beautiful city in Canada,

blah, blah, blah. It is very beautiful. I've lived there. I studied there, but like, I think Toronto and also Montreal, Montreal is a blast. They've got amazing food. One of the, like, this is a small tangent on Montreal, but Montreal has something that no other Canadian city has that I've been to, which is this sort of eatery district where it sort of feels like new Orleans a little bit where like there's two or three floors to every restaurant with balconies that wrap around. And all four corners of an intersection will have that exact same style. So you can be sitting at the corner of an intersection on the third floor, and you'll be 10 meters away from someone at a different restaurant at the same floor level, and you can wave to them and say hi.

Whereas Toronto doesn't have that. So potentially what you want to do is come to cpp north and then take a train over to to montreal because it's only a four or five hour train ride is that what we're gonna do connor you're gonna take me to montreal for my birthday oh no i just do you're you've mentioned food so of course we're leaving out what I suspect to be the most important event of C++ North, which is I assume that the Canadians are preparing some sort of blind bagel test tasting in which I will be forced to admit the supremacy of the Montreal bagel. Well, we would have to move the bagels from Montreal to Toronto. You want them fresh. A later CP North event,

which will hold Montreal at some point, we'll try to alternate. Or, again, just Connor. Forget moving the bagels to Connor and I. We'll move Connor and I to the bagels. There's a great bagel place. There's a couple great bagel places in Toronto. I'll bring a

test sample to patrice and he can confirm whether or not they uh they they meet the standard with montreal bagel and then we can we can then grace uh rice with the uh the taste as well that sounds quite reasonable to me i don't i don't want to start a war i mean there's already a war but like um i had there's a new i don't actually remember the name of the place but there's a montreal bagel place that just opened in toronto and they had these very small the holes were very large in them i was a bit confused on why there was not more bagel and i i gotta be honest i was like i took a bite and was my first thought was this is not as good as the bagels I had in New York. I swear I did not pay Connor anything for that.

Even in Montreal, there's two kinds of schools. There's a Fairmount bagels and the San Diego bagels. And they don't agree on which one's which, which one's the best or something. So bagels are a fighting issue all over the place. It sounds like we are going to have to make a trip to Montreal then, Bryce. This is the only way to settle this. We do have the conference in Toronto, so let's fix that first. I'm going to say like the hotel,

you can basically walk out of the hotel and be at the train station. That's true. That's true. we are right at basically at union which is where the trains to montreal start so all right with that um this episode it was an interesting journey yeah it was a blast i'm but yeah thanks both uh patrice and jason for coming on um i mean i'll be seeing jason virtually over the next couple months but i'll be seeing both of you and bryce i guess probably actually the next time I see all three of you almost definitely in person at the same time we'll be at CPP North. So yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Bye. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed and have a great day.