All About Change - AJ Edelman: The National Mission of an Olympic Athlete

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

There is a notion that observant Jews don’t have a chance to be professional athletes. The notion that Shabbat is an impediment and a sheer lack of role models make it hard for young athletes to find their way to elite sport. AJ Edelman is one of the trailblazing athletes working to change those conditions. Without any of the supports offered by the classic winter-olympic pipeline, he taught himself the dangerous art of skeleton from watching YouTube videos and went on to compete for Israel in the 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang, South Korea. Since then, he has built out the Israeli bobsledding program, recruiting athletes and sponsors, and pushing his team to reach the 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan. Jay and AJ discuss the challenging logistics of building an Olympic program from scratch, and the unique set of restrictions and responsibilities AJ feels as a chosen representative of the State of Israel. Today's episode was produced by Tani Levitt and Mijon Zulu. To check out more episodes or to learn more about the show, you can visit our website Allaboutchangepodcast.com. If you like our show, spread the word, tell a friend or family member, or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. We really appreciate it. All About Change is produced by the Ruderman Family Foundation. Episode Chapters 0:00 Intro 2:35 How AJ became a sled athlete and chose Skeleton and Bobsled 9:14 Has AJ always wanted to be an advocate for the Jewish people? 12:04 AJ loves to inspire the next generation 14:50 Activism as a national athlete 18:35 How do other athletes relate to AJ’s activism? 22:52 How do fans relate to AJ’s activism? 24:53 Campaigns to bar Israel from international athletic competition 29:27 What would making the 2026 Olympics mean to AJ and Israel 32:49 Outro and goodbye For video episodes, watch on⁠ ⁠⁠www.youtube.com/@therudermanfamilyfoundation⁠ Stay in touch: X:⁠ @JayRuderman⁠ |⁠ @RudermanFdn⁠ LinkedIn:⁠ Jay Ruderman⁠ |⁠ Ruderman Family Foundation⁠ Instagram:⁠ All About Change Podcast⁠ |⁠ Ruderman Family Foundation⁠ To learn more about the podcast, visit⁠ https://allaboutchangepodcast.com/⁠ Jay’s brand new book, Find Your Fight, in which Jay teaches the next generation of activists and advocates how to step up and bring about lasting change. You can find Find Your Fight wherever you buy your books, and you can learn more about it at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.jayruderman.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Welcome to All About Change. Before we get started, I want to offer congratulations to Kenneth Cole for winning the Morton-E-Ruderman Award in Inclusion. Each year, the Foundation presents the Morton-E-Ruderman Award in Inclusion to an individual who has made an extraordinary contribution to the inclusion of people with disabilities. The award was named after my father, Mort Routerman, the founder of the Ruderman Family Foundation. He was a successful entrepreneur, mentor, and proud family man who saw success as the result of help he received from others and was therefore passionate about providing opportunities for others. The award recognizes Kenneth's transformative leadership in confronting mental health stigma and building a national movement for inclusion through storytelling, awareness, and action as the founder of the Mental Health Coalition. Mazeltov, Kenneth Cole from receiving the Morton-Eve-Ruderman Award in Inclusion. There's a notion that observant Jews don't have a chance to be professional athletes.

There are so many stories in our community of kids cut from elite travel teams because they won't play on Friday night or Saturday, missing out on the chance to show their skills in front of talent evaluators and recruiters. The few athletes who managed to push beyond these scheduling limitations have to think outside the box. One basketball player would stay in hotels near his Shabbat games and walk to the stadium by himself while his teammates took the bus from the team hotel. A.J. Edelman is one of these trailblazing athletes. Without any support offered by the classic Winter Olympic pipeline, he taught himself the dangerous art of skeleton from watching YouTube videos and went on to compete for Israel in the 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyongchang, South Korea.

Since then, he's built out the Israeli bobsledding program, recruiting athletes and sponsors, and pushing his team to reach the 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan. AJ's success as Israel's first bobslet Olympian has given him a platform to campaign against bullying as an advocate for LBGTQ representation in sport, for Israel and for Jews to get involved in high-level athletics without having to face as many roadblocks as he did. AJ, welcome to All About Change. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. So we were just talking before we started recording that you are in Whistler, British Columbia.

I am indeed. Wistler is one of three places in North America with a bob sled track. So I wanted to, let me ask you a couple questions about sports, because I'm really interested in that. And we're going to get into the activism in the second. But you started in skeleton. And I've always wondered, first of all, you'll tell us what skeleton is. but I've always wanted why skeleton and not luge? Most generally ask why the one. Skeleton and luge differ in terms of the directionality that you're facing. So skeleton, you're head first on the equivalent of a lunge try,

and on luge, your feet first. The deluge event, many people start when they're real young. They start eight years old, nine years old. There's a lot of development that's based around after-school programs in winter sport locations like Park City, Utah, late-class New York, Whistler here, of course. Luge has its game really well put together for the development of youth sliding.

Skeleton and Bopset are known as skill transfer sports, which means if you come from an athletic background and have skills in another sport, you'll generally be able to apply those to the best of your ability in bobsleder skeleton. So what that often means, what that translates into, Luge doesn't have a starting component

to it. And so more developed track athletes, football athletes, palatable athletes generally comes to Bob Southern Skeleton. And that's why it's more attractive to an adult, to an adult athlete. And I transferred over from my sport of hockey when I was 23 years old. Talk about what you went through in order to become good in skeleton. How did you push yourself through some pretty difficult injuries? So I did skeleton for the audience members who don't know me. From 2014 to 2018, I did Skeleton. I retired from sport for a couple of years to develop the next generation of Israeli sliding athletes. I went to business school, and then I started the current iteration of the bobsled team in 2020.

When I came into the sport of skeleton, I was essentially trying to see if the next phase of my life was going to be dedicated to sport or was going to jump into my head. career. And what motivated the question was a desire to see Jewish sport change for the better. Jewish sport doesn't really have an infrastructure in the same way that many other communities make. And for some reason, I mean, a lot of people pegged that on the sound-off issue, but if you actually take a look at the majority of Jews, majority of Jews don't keep to that sort of degree. And so that when the Israeli hockey team asked me to play for them in 2014 onward, I took a broader view of the Israeli and Jewish sport landscape and thought,

what would be the value add that I would contribute by playing for Israel hockey as opposed to doing the rest of my career? And I realized that there were very few individuals who were even facing this choice. from our community, and there had to be a reason for that. And the reason that I pegged was it was just a vicious cycle of people who didn't see Jewish sports role models, so they didn't pursue sport, and because they didn't pursue sport at further depressed things. And I always draw the comparison of if a kid goes to their parents in the Jewish community

and says, you know, I would really like to become a proficient pianist or a killer. One of those sorts of endeavors, a parent might immediately jump at the opportunity to spend woodles of money and resources and time and effort to get them to even a moderate level of proficiency because they find value in that. In sport, the response might be, I think more often than not, you know, what do you see a future in this? What do you see like you're going to make this a job? It's going to be a Parnasa like an income.

That has to change. And in order to change things, you've got to be the change. So I was looking for a sport in which to be the change to affect some change, to be able to go out in the world and say, you know, I accomplished something in this area. I know what it means, what value it can bring to the community. If you go to a skeleton, at least if you do it, you do it on your own and you fail on your own. And when I went to try a skeleton, I got the worst scouting report in the history of the training camp that they had put on in Lake Placid. And the scouting report was they related it back to Israel and they relayed it to me on my 23rd birthday. in 2014, and they said,

you're not what we would call athletic. You will never achieve any degree of success in the sport. You might get down the track, but that'll be the most of it, and you'll certainly never make the Olympics. And for me, that was kind of, I thought about, I think, as just a young 20-something, that's sort of like you can't do something

as a real, it's a real, you know, I'll show you. By 2018, I had become one of the better drivers in the world, even though I had a lackluster start of pushing aspect of the sport, which is why they said I would never be competitive. I had watched over 10,000 hours of footage alone to become the best driver that was in many of the fields. So that's how I developed in skeleton. So the next Olympics, the Winter Olympics, are coming up next year in Milan.

Is this team going to go? Or what's your chances? So it's TVD because everyone, it's kind of like, If you're Jewish in the audience, it's like Yom Kippur, every October, the new season rolls around and the points are reset to zero. So you could have won the World Championships back in March, and it has no bearing on the Olympics. So the points are presently at zero. I peg her chances is very good. We're a very good team.

I'm a very decent driver. Very good driver. Thank God. And my mom would be sitting, she's going to be watching this and sitting at home and going, don't say it. We're a good team. And in sport, you really have to believe that you're going to accomplish what you can't accomplish. But I actually do. Like, we're a very good team.

We should have been there in 2022. We were six spots ahead in the final two weeks in the quota. But COVID, there was a variant of the COVID virus called Omicron and wiped out people from the World Cup competition on that other circuit. Three other pilots tore their hamstrings and pulled out and allowed the sled from the the Netherlands the jump us in the final day. So I believe

we'll be there in February. Well, I wish you the best of luck. And my producer is probably a little bit upset that

I talked so long about sports, but I want to get into your activism. So you once wrote that ambassadorship is the responsibility and role of a national

athlete as much as competing. But it's clear from your story that you've always seen yourself as an avatar for the every Jew. Your recent work

lifting up Jewish athletes advocating for and representing Israel seems to be part of a larger project. Did this attitude come from family, from school, or did you develop that, you know, goal on your own? I think the sense of responsibility towards your community is one that at least I received from a very loving home that had a certain set of values. My parents were always were always ones to give back the silently. They instilled in us a great set of responsibility or sense of responsibility towards our community

and towards our family and friends. And that carried over into the broader, you know, as we find our places in the world, as we find our places in the Jewish community, we all speak out, or at least I do. What was my role and my place in the Jewish community? How can I contribute there? Eventually, I came to see myself more even as an Israeli than as Jew, because I chose Israel, in a sense, whereas I was born into Judaism.

Israel serves me, I feel like, as well. Israel has contributed a lot simply. The sense of responsibility of a national athlete, I think, came from, in particular, the national athlete, came from the years of, it was really truly blood, blood, sweat, and tears of what was taking place. in no man's land parts of Europe as I was slaving away at this project of carrying Israel sliding to the Olympic Games. I woke up every day with a sense of purpose that this was my responsibility that Israel had given me the responsibility of a slide and therefore I needed to give back in not equal but better than equal part. That was my responsibility towards Because the only relevance the national athlete has is the flag that they wear. Otherwise, and especially in a sport like Bob's Slellan, you're just a guy going down a hill, right?

And that's for most people, a crazy thing to do. The only relevance it has, the only thing that gives it value is the flag that you wear. Israel's blessing to allow me to represent that. It removes the individual out. It removes your individual sense. self. It has to be more. I did hear you speak about how you connect with younger people and how they see you and the impact that that has. So can you tell one of those stories and tell us like how how that motivates you? I think the most impactful interaction I ever had with a young person

that solidified what it meant or solidified the importance of belief. It was it was a validation. of what I preach, so to speak, was after the 2018 games, I went to the, there's like a National Jewish Sports Hall of Fame in Comick, New York, it's in a JCC over there. And I went to donate some of my equipment from the Olympics to the Jewish Sport Hall of Fame.

And in the JCC, they were having a theater, you know, a theater after-school program for kids. And the person who was taking me around, who was the head of the complex, named Avi, he said, why don't you tell the kids in five minutes or less

your story? And I did. And this kid came up after, he came running up to us as we were leaving the complex, and he said, I tell my friends in school always that I'm going to work on Broadway,

and they're always laughing at me and saying that I'll never work on Broadway. But I'm going to tell them that I met this guy who they said, never make the Olympics, and he made the Olympics, and you just tried really hard

and I'm going to go in and tell them tomorrow in school. And it was the most, it was warming, it still always makes me incredibly emotional to recall it. Kids have very vivid and vibrant imaginations and they're able to put themselves

in scenarios for which they can kind of just co-opt it into their own sense of self and their own lives. And sports is one of those very powerful images that even if they're not pursuing sport, they know enough about to be able to put themselves or to apply

for their own situation. And so I think of the biggest value that my journey has ever had is being impacting younger people to say, you know, I did this with really, you know, the biggest support was always than their parent. You know, they've always loved and supported and we speak every day. But when it comes

to Olympic athletes. I'd say I'm probably, I'm sure, in the bottom one percentile of infrastructure and for anyone who's ever done this sort of thing. So I'm really excited when I get to talk to young people because I know that those lessons they translate. That's beautiful. I've spoken to several professional athletes who are activists and devote a significant amount of their time about talking about things that are important to them.

could be the environment, could be, you know, helping people from the community that they came from. You're out there. You're, you know, when things happen in the world, you're talking to people. You're raising your voice. You're using your social media platform to talk about issues that are important to you. In support of the Jewish people, in support of Israel. Not all athletes do that. Some people said, okay, you know, I'm an athlete and I'm going to focus on, you know, my day job,

but I'm not going to, you know, say anything. about what's going on in the world. For many athletes, I think the responsibility of the athlete is to shut up and dribble, right? To borrow the phrase from a number of years ago when all the protests were breaking out on the national anthem and things like that,

when it comes to the role of the national, my country, my people, they're under attack. I don't get involved in domestic U.S. politics in issues like that. I don't get involved in, And, you know, if it was 2012, I wouldn't be involved in the gay marriage issue. And if it was around the time of Roe, you know, being overturned, I wouldn't be involved in that. It's not the responsibility of a national athlete, certainly, to come down on a political side.

I think that that's the opposite. It's very polarizing. And your responsibility is to be an ambassador of the people in the state. So, you know, if there's ever an election in Israel, I won't be stumping for something in my role as an athlete. Where I do insert myself and I find a responsibility, you know, not just an option, but a responsibility is being a representative of Israel is being a representative of not just all those in Israel, but it's the Jewish state and of the Jewish people. Where my activism has come out very strongly is in the post-10-7 crime plan, both Israel and Jews are under attack. So my responsibility as an Israeli is to be the ambassador that Israel needs,

and as a Jew, to be the ambassador that's Jews. Because I've always, our motto, or my motto, back in skeleton, and it's still sifted. On my back here, it's, well, I see, I'm either at sea, if you can see it. It means for myself, for my people, and for my country. So I represent myself in sport, but I represent my people, that would be the people of Israel, that would be Jewish people, and I represent my country. And it's all of the Druze, the Christians, the Muslims, and Israel, but the state of Israel. That's my job.

That's my role. I could think of nothing else more important in this time period than to do that. And there was a lot of cost to it. The team became politically, very toxic. We lost every sponsor that was lined up. We've never really had many sponsors, but we were becoming quite good around, you know, when October 7th came about. And a quick, you know, October 7th rolled around and I started to really raise a voice. And the team just became, we got multiple emails.

I got multiple emails that, you know, it's not the right time to be doing this, you know, to be associating with the team. So, of course, there's a cost to it. But that's the responsibility of the athlete that I am that I've been allowed to represent the country. I have no other choice in my view. So, AJ, I want to ask you that since October 7, two years ago, the world has been focused on Israel. And since you've been representing Israel as an athlete, sometimes public figures who are on social media get turned. into fake people by the masses, by social media. How is that different your public persona

and how you're treated than when you're in the Olympic village with other Olympic athletes? What's it been like for you interacting with other Olympians? It's a great question because I found myself wearing this shirt in the start house yesterday, Zionist a. It was the kind of thing that I just came right after 10-7. and I just started splashing it on a bunch of our stuff because I really think that we need to explain exactly what Zionism is

because it's really not well understood by people, you know, crazy. And so the interactions with other athletes because I really tried to leave the Israel stuff out of it because Jewish people have a, I think it's the Israeli condition, but certainly the Jewish condition as well. We do believe that because we, are right. Other people know we are right. Because we have that's on our side, but other people should just get it. But the reality is, and we oftentimes forget, it's like many other social

issues that just don't impact us, we don't care, right? And they don't care. They don't have the time and the day to care, nor should that. I really don't think that a normal person should be caring about Jewish issues. It's Jews who care about Jewish. issues in the same way that while I empathize and sympathize with any single issue from any other minority community, I don't sit around my dinner table wondering what's affecting their community today. What I take in is just being the most normal, decent, good human. And we've always we've always had a thing on the team where you don't, every single person who comes into the sled who sits in my sled, we have a conversation. And the conversation generally goes something.

like you're now a representative of the state of Israel. And if you're solely back, you're off in the matter how good you. And so I expect a certain level, not only professionalism, but even if people try to screw us, even if people tried to deal with us in bad faith, which is very common in Bob's sons. We don't think stereotypes. We deal with people honestly.

We help them out every single time we can. Because I have been personally in situations where I had had a very negative interaction with an athlete from a country. And I have never met anyone else from that particular country, but when I see that country on the news or that flag, I do have a negative conception of the country. And I can't help it. But all, and I'm thinking of one athlete in particular,

who he's the only person I've ever met from that country. But he's been horribly anti-Semitic. He has been, he's just a terrible, things about Jews. He's just been a terrible person and human being. And so when I see things about that country, I don't think, oh, that must be a great country. I don't think it must be a terrible country, but it's not like I go, oh, that must be a great country. At best, I'm ambivalent. I do know that there are countries that the athletes are wonderful towards us. And so when I see the flag, I'm like, I love that country. That country, that's great. So that's my

experience in the start house. That's an experience in being with other athletes. You just have to be a real good next. And that's all you can be. And you don't force Israel issues. We never talked about all takes. You never talk. The war unless they ask. And if they ask, you just be

honest, right, about the issues. But we never go in and go, did you see what happened or, you know, whatever. So when you went out to talk to people, you went to Washington Square Park and you were hosting these, Change My Mind and talking about Israel.

Tell what was one of your takeaways from that event? One of the conversations that really, you know, struck with you and when you put your uniform on, because I know that sometimes you did these conversations with your uniform,

how did that change the conversation? The uniform was important for me in two respects. It was important that people see that I was trying to embody Israel. It was immediately associated with Israel or not just with Jews. So I think that it became very important that Israel be the centerpiece.

So at least as well when people were arguing, the focus of the argument was as much as they could on Israel self, because Israel has become a real proxy for Jew hate. That was one. The second was it was for me. And this was my role as an Israeli athlete. I had not, I had been very conscious to stay away from being very very. very vocal on sensitive issues because I think that that's still the role of an athlete or of a national athlete to steer clear of issues that can polarize internally. Your role is not to create division.

It's to create positivity. Politics themselves are inherently divisive. So the subject of Israel is it relates to debating in the world is not a political issue. That's our identity issue. I don't think that the uniform changed. too much in terms of the overall, I think people felt more comfortable being

vocal than someone who is visibly Israeli versus visibly Jewish. Shouting at someone who's visibly Jewish might make you a little self-conscious that you'll be tagged in anti-Semite off the back. Of course, you probably aren't

anti-Semite, but visibly. Visibly, if you're screaming at an Israeli flag, it's more socially acceptable than screaming at a Jew. that was important there have been campaigns to bar Israel from different competitions and you know the iOC and fita you know barred russian athletes um from participating as russians um what would you say to people if if um they said you have to compete as an individual

neutral athlete in in the olympics great question the issue of athletes expulsion from athletic competitions is one that I've been exposed to every year now because Russia doped on a state-sponsored program in Sochi when I started an Olympic sport. And so the question is followed, how do you deal with that and then following that before? There's always been questions in my time and sport of what you do with Russians for one reason or another. Of course, it's been co-opted now on the Israeli side. In the sports for which you receive money and they're the major sports, just sporting leagues. Not a single person of any nationality or ethnicity should be held out of those competitions.

So that would be the NBA, the major leagues, cricket, or whatever it is. When it comes to state-level actors, state-level competitions, I support the banning of certain countries from state-level competitions for, certain various things because sport, I believe in the embodiment that sport is a promotion of your country, not of yourself, sport at a national level. So it's very difficult to separate out athletes who just want to go to the Olympics, but the Olympics are gathering its countries. They often. At the end of the day, that's what the Olympics are about.

For a country like Russia, the athletes are supported in their sporting endeavors almost always. at that level through military service, through a connection to the state. So one of the reasons why we have such a problem on the bombsome and even recruiting people, recruiting athletes, is when the athletes come over, they have no income. You're just asking them to come and sacrifice

a full-time job, even if they were to commit four years to this, which none of them ever did. They can't have a full-time job for four years. They can have that most a part-time job for five, six months in the office. And then, what are they going to spend all that money in season on their food and their protein and, you know, sleeping arrangements? It's incredibly challenging to put together with obscenes because I have to pay for everything. There's no other way to get them here. And at most, they'll sign up for one season, and that's too, because they can't, as a 23-year-old, 23-year-old out of the military with no savings and haven't yet gone to college or even.

and just have gone to college, they got nothing in life. I can't say I'm going to sign up for this for five years, six years. Israel doesn't function in the same way that a country like Germany does, or country like Russia does, where you have, where you essentially just get paid as a member of the military, but you go off and do sport. So the German, all the German bops of athletes, they just go write traffic tickets in the off-season because they're members of the pilot patrol or the, you know, the national police.

In that sense, yes, there's athletes. only thrive, have only survived because of a state-sponsored infrastructure, and if you're going to punish the state, you're going to end up punishing the athletes. They bought into the state program. If you were to set up a system in which athletes were to say, okay, you know what, I'm totally renouncing anything to do with Russia. For now, it's probably more.

I'll take a limited amount of resources from the IOC, 10 grand a year, let's say, and I have to fund the rest myself, individual sponsorships. A, no one's going to do it. But B, if they did, they can do it. Otherwise, you're still getting paid by Russia. You're still going as a Russian. I mean, the Russian bobsled team, their training camp is an occupied Crimea. They just, they're the beneficiaries of the exact issues that the IOC is trying to penalize them for.

It's explicitly against the IOC rule to do that. To hold it in occupied territories. So, but our sport gets a lot, wants a lot of money from Gals from. and other Russian sponsors. So our sport is probably the only sport that has really gone about for the Russians or at least the top level. So let me finally ask you,

you narrowly missed the 2022 Winter Olympics. What is it going to mean to you to compete with the Israeli flag emblazoned on your sled in 2026? It's like a great question, how you look at things in hindsight and what different things mean to you as with the passage of time.

In 2018, when I retired from Skeleton, I retired from Skeleton, in 90 plus percent of that retirement was due to an exceedingly anti-Semitic. Like, it was an anti-Semitic episode at the game from a member of our sports, like, not an athlete, but from a jury number that was still anti-Semitic.

It, like, destroyed my sense of purity in sport. He said he was going to make up a reason to disqualify a piece of equipment because Jews made all the rules. He said it to me, two more things. The other athlete who was out the games, who I've mentioned before, was also anti-Semitic. And he said that he was going to make up stories that I was prejudiced and that knew who is going to believe people, him or the Jew. And it played into the depression and it was awful. After 2022, I think it was very numb to it. Like what happened in the last few weeks was it was the only way we could have missed those games,

is if this cascading series of insane events took place that no one would have ever predicted, including this virulent explosion of the Omicron virus. If it happened, a two week later, a week later, that explosion of Omicron, it would have been in the game. That would be competing for them. I just looked back on that. I continued to do sport.

I continued to do this sort of journey because I fell into, like, the trap of, like, you know, point one seconds out is like, how can you walk away from that? In 2026, I'd be sitting on the couch, going, you know, oh, God, like, how could you give up on yourself? I think the passage of time makes us all realize that things are just not as important as we make it out to be at the beginning, or there are certain things that are just more important. The Balsa team is supposed to have a generational impact because it has gurus on the team.

It's always had Jews on the team, you know, Arab gurus. It's supposed to be a story for which many people, not just me then, go out in the world and impact on kids and it should be a documentary about the team eventually because it's how wild it's been since 10-7 to fly in new people every week and all seasons together. In that sense, I think it's going to be something I'm very proud of it in the accomplishment. So I think it's probably what I would be thinking about when walking in is look what happens when you just try it best. You know, good things can happen.

And I'll probably just take that forward as a life lesson to the next thing when it hits hard and life is hard. I'll be able to say, you know, you've had this before in a more extreme version. Well, AJ, I want to wish you to go from strength to strength. Thank you so much for being my guests and all about change. I really enjoy this conversation and I'll be following you. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Now is a great time to check out my new book about activism.

Find Your Fight. You can find Find Your Fight wherever you buy books, and you can learn more about it at jruderman.com. Thank you for being part of the All About Change community. We aim to spark ideas for personal activism, helping you find your pathway to action beyond awareness. So thank you for investing your time with us, learning and thinking about how just one person can make the choice to build a community and improve our world. I believe in the empower of informed people like you. to drive real change, and I know that what we explore today will be a tool for you in that effort.

All right, I'll see you in two weeks for our next conversation, but just one small ask. Please hit subscribe and leave us a comment below. It lets us know that you value this content, and it supports our mission to widely share these perspectives. If you're looking for more inspiration, check out this next video. I chose it for you, and I know you're going to enjoy it.

I'm Jay Ruderman. Let's continue working towards meaningful change together.