All About Change - Alexis Tutunnique of United Ukrainian Ballet - Ukrainian Cultural Resistance

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Alexis Tutunnique is a ballet dancer, a graduate of the Kyiv National Ballet School, a member of the United Ukrainian Ballet Company, and the subject of the recent documentary Front Row. In Front Row, Alexis befriends and invites Sascha, a former Ukrainian soldier who lost his legs in a bombing, to join the dance troupe for a performance in LA. Jay and Alexis discuss the state of cultural activism, the way Ukrainian artists and soldiers inspire each other, and Ukraine’s national identity post-2022. Episode Chapters (00:00) Welcome & Introduction (01:00) Ballet as a Form of Cultural Activism (05:00) From Russia to Exile: Alexis’ Journey (09:00) Severed Ties: Russian Friends and Propaganda (10:00) A Soldier’s Journey to the Ballet (14:00) Cultural Activism’s Emotional Impact (16:00) The Limits of Cultural Activism (20:00) Defining Victory for Ukraine (23:00) Final Thoughts and Goodbye For video episodes, watch on www.youtube.com/@therudermanfamilyfoundation Stay in touch: X: @JayRuderman | @RudermanFdn LinkedIn: Jay Ruderman | Ruderman Family Foundation Instagram: All About Change Podcast | Ruderman Family Foundation To learn more about the podcast, visit https://allaboutchangepodcast.com/

Welcome to All About Change. Today, my guest is Alexis Tytunnik. Alexis is a ballet dancer, a graduate of the Kiev National Ballet School, and a first soloist for a number of dance companies. After dancing in Ukraine, Russia, and Ukraine again through the 210s, Alexis found himself in exile, living in the Netherlands

after Russia invaded his home country. There, Alexis joined up with other Ukrainian ballet dancers as the United Ukrainian Ballet Company. They've danced across Europe and North America, raising funds and awareness for Ukraine's war effort. They are also the subject of a brand new documentary called Front Row, in which Alexis befriends and invites Sasha, a former Ukrainian soldier who lost his legs in a bombing, to join the dance troupe to perform in LA. Alexis Tytunnik, thank you so much for being my guest on All About Change. Thank you. Thank you for invitation. There are scenes in the documentary Front Row where various members of the dance

troupe work through the idea that dance is a crucial part of the war effort. What was it like for you when you realized that dancing was not just dancing but is also an activist statement? Russia has long been engaged in cultural warfare and alongside with other instruments and other channels of influence to spread their narratives and propaganda. And especially with ballet, many people see ballet as pure art or something beyond politics, but the truth and reality we live in is that the Kremlin has long weaponized cultural institutions like the Bolsheviks and the Mariinsky theaters to shape their global perceptions, manipulate narratives, and even protect

their political interests. And for Russia, ballet is a cultural trademark, and the Kremlin actively promotes them to create a positive global image of Russia, destructing the world from its human rights, violation and military aggression. And while Russian forces invade sovereign countries, not only Ukraine actually, Russian ballet companies continue to tour internationally, softening the country's reputation. These performance services is subtle diplomatic missions reinforcing the idea that Russia remains a respected cultural power despite its war crimes.

Front Row, which is a documentary on the company that you're part of touring around the world as a Ukrainian ballet company. It's quite difficult to combine the understanding Ukrainian ballet company. This is the path. This is my weakness. I feel guilty for this. This is my personal sorrow. proudly as a Ukrainian ballet company, but you all have ties to family members who are on the front lines fighting the war against Russia. So were you and your company members aware

that you were representing your country, that you were in somehow opposition to the prominence of Russian art and Russian ballet out in the world? Yeah, because with United Ukrainian Ballet, the company is more than just a ballet company. It's a cultural force that spreads awareness about Ukraine's struggle. And with United Ukrainian Ballet, a common foundation, we keep Ukrainian culture alive and raise awareness and support. At the same time, countering Russian cultural propaganda and performing internationally with UUB, we ensure that Ukrainian ballet and artistic tradition remain visible

in a vibrant country because it's one of the main target of Russia to raise Ukrainian identity, cultural identity. And with our performances, we raise awareness and support from the communities around the world. With our project, we don't see some pushbacks, but I know some situations and stories from my colleagues, not only in ballet, but also in acting, in opera, in orchestra, when their performances were cancelled because of the Russian influence.

Because Russian oligarchs, which is close to the Kremlin, they use ballet as a shield, donating for the ballet institutions, some festivals, cultural foundations, performances, they legitimized themselves in the Western countries, gaining social and political connections that helped them avoid sanctions. And like what I understand also from the stories of my colleagues that there were situations when these oligarchs or some businessmen provided funds for some Western institutions or festivals or venues. They were influenced by these Western companies to block the possibility for Ukrainian artists to perform there and to promote Ukrainian art and culture. What was it like before the war?

I mean, you've obviously been to Russia. You had connections to Russia. How has that been since the war? How have those connections just ceased? Do you no longer speak to Russian friends? I was working in Russia most of my career in the beginning. I spent there seven years and five of these years I spent with with Mariinsky Theatre. I was young and stupid, I was not paying attention to the politics actually. For me it was only ballet and carrier and I was concentrated on the ballet and the ballet world so I was really not into any issues, situations, war

conflict, nothing. Actually I came to Petersburg, it was a few months before the revolution of dignity in Ukraine. And then, yeah, we all know what's happened. And our former president, which was Ukraine president Yanukovych, was a puppet of Putin. He ran away. And then it was a reason for Russia to invade Ukraine to occupy the east part of Ukraine and ex Crimea. And even during that time, I remember I was very concerned about that, because of course it's my country and also the Revolution of Dignity is a place where all my family would be.

And I remember my colleagues in Mariinsky, they were asking me, questioning me, like what is going on, what's happened, because I remember my colleagues in Mariinsky, they were asking me, questioning me, like, what is going on? What's happened? Because I remember that time I also watched Russian news and it was crazy, huge propaganda because they say, for example, that revolution which we had, it's sponsored by United States, which was completely untrue because as I say, all of my family have been on Maidan and they go on Maidan, this revolution to protest against the corruption, against dictatorial regimes, which is starting to spread all around Ukraine because of this Putin's puppet. And nobody was paid. My parents were not paid to stay in there. And yes, well, I remember I was

explaining that to my colleagues and after that, even like some people from the company management started to come to me and tried like to sneaky picky get information from me and like about my position about the situation. It was not very scary, but it was a bit scary and dangerous because I was I understanding that I can have some problems in Russia. There is no freedom of speech. You are very loyal to the regime or you are in a prison. So I was quite careful because yeah, also like as I say, that time I was more in

being more into my career, dancing, performances. And in Murinsk, it was quite tough because we were working 24 per 7 every day. So most of the time, you don't even have time to think about something else. I don't have so many friends in Russia after working there. Most of my friends there were all Ukrainians or I have friends from great regions, others parish who actually left Russia after Russia invaded Ukraine after full-scale invasion and like actually most of my friends like people like my colleagues who I can call friends that they left Russia when Russia invaded Ukraine 2022

and some of my colleagues who still work in Russia, we all block each other because they were completely brainwashed. Some of them even wrote me some messages like, we come to save yourself from yourself, some bullshit like that. There was even one message from one dancer from the Mikhailovsky Theatre. He wrote me that... I don't remember the correct word he said, but it was something like about like, yeah, when when Russian soldiers will kill me, like to put me down, like or to

make me free or stuff like that. They're, yeah, unfortunately, they're brainwashed or they just follow in this propaganda of this regime because they have some business ties with government with this regime. So that is unfortunately the truth. — First of all, I would urge everyone to watch Front Row. But there is a very powerful element where a soldier who has lost both of his legs, he's a W amputee, and decides that he wants to become part of the ballet troupe. There's some tension within the troupe about whether he can perform or whether he can't perform, and you develop such a close relationship with him. What did that add to the performance of the troupe, having a soldier who's a double

amputee become part of the show? I mean, first of all, of course, for me, he's a hero. He's a person who sacrificed his life, his health to defend our country, our freedom, our identity. When we first time met each other, I felt as a family, he became for me as a brother, we find a connection very fast. And as I say, for me, he's a huge inspiration because he's a very positive way of thinking and he's very active and very pushy. And he's like, after performance, because I invite him on performance, so we watched together Giselle of Aleksey Ratmansky. And after this performance, he tells me, you know, I'm so inspired by your performance, because it was his first time on a ballet.

And at the same time, he came on a stage to see our dancers and say thanks for them. And at the same time, he inspired them. So it was a very huge and deep synergy between dancers and Alexander. And it was the beginning of the close relation, not only between me and Sasha, but also between him and the ballet company. Because after that, he told me, Loesch, I want to go on a stage to perform. I was like, okay, let's think about that. Because, I mean, it's very brave, but we need to think how we can create, which kind of choreography, how we can adapt it, that it will be comfortable for him because he never danced before.

Then it's like just starting, like step by step, layer by layer. And first we did together with production, movie production of the front row, we did this incredible photo shoot with Rahir and Zvani together with dancers. And after we made this, oh, actually like when we did with Rahir, this photo shoot, actually it was the idea that we will combine

this photo shoot with some video recording where Sasha will dance. Here you go. Wow! And now Alain already turned around and we lift it up. Oh, you have a really good hand, like a really belly hand. Geez! Yeah, so classical.

And he was dance actually. I don't know if this recording is still, we still have, but after that he came to me and he said like, Lelouch, but it's not what I want to do. I want to really go on a stage and dance like full belly. I was like, okay, okay, let's do that. Let's think about that. So, and then we invite Emma Evelyn, this incredible, beautiful girl, choreographer from NDT, and she created a beautiful piece, which we showed for the first time in Orange County, in the Segerstrom Center, after the main performance

of Giselle, of Alexei Ratmansky. It was incredible. People in the audience, there were 3,000 seats in the audience, and all of the people was deeply touched by this performance by this heroical entrance on a stage of of one that sold her and it's just this situation and like and the story and the the war in Ukraine is became closer to the people to the audience in the United States who visit our performance. I think it's a very powerful scene in California.

I mean, not only are people showing up to watch a wonderful performance and to support a troop from Ukraine, but also at the end you have this scene with a soldier who was severely wounded fighting for his country. And the emotion in the room, I mean, you can feel it through the screen, was so powerful. And you know, I just have to give credit to the choreographer and to the troupe and to the acceptance of pulling him in. And I think it leads, especially as the war continues on, a very powerful impression of the impact

of cultural activism on a situation that's affecting millions and millions of people. I wanna just say congratulations on that and for being part of that. Let me ask you about the limits of cultural activism. Is there a point when you say to yourself that you need to do more? And what do you think would be the next step for you? Well, with the experience which I had, I think there are no limits in general, but there is a bond race because we need to be selective and careful about where and how we promote the truth about the war in Ukraine through the soft power, through the balearic art.

Because not everyone is willing to get involved in this. And I'm talking about the bale and the venue representatives, because someone, as I mentioned previously, is influenced by Russian propaganda or because they have some commercial ties with Russia or because they just have their own personal beliefs. So we must be cautious in our activism so we don't lose potential platforms for connecting with the public. So sometimes it shouldn't be like just, oh, here we are, Ukrainian dancers promoting Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine. I mean, I see with time people around the world, they're tired from that. And I mean, of course, it's very sad.

But I understand these people. So we need to find another way to bring the attention to the problematic of the war in Ukraine. Not with like screaming louder, but through some smart ways, creating some high-end gala concerts where we'll perform not only dances from Ukraine, but worldwide, but connecting it, but not so loudly, with money raising to support humanitarian aid in Ukraine, but also combine with some other humanitarian aid in other countries, because there is many destruction in the world. That's the situation what we have now. And about my next steps, I just try to not give into emotions and move forward in my career.

and move forward in my career. And so that through success in my work field, I can influence the opinion of people involved in the ballet art or in art in general. Because quite often, I've been invited on some performances as a guest principal or on some gala concerts or even just as a guest to the audience to some artistic performances, not only ballet. And it's good to meet with people, very important people, quite often,

including politicians, like on the backstaging couloir, as we say, and to talk to them personally about the situation and the problematic of the war in Ukraine. What about the tension? Were there any members of the troop that felt like, okay, I'm serving my country, I'm representing my country, I'm dancing and I'm around the world performing, but maybe I should be fighting? Most of the time, I think not only me, but most of the Ukrainian boys, especially in our company, that's what I know, feel very concerned and like, am I doing right to be not in Ukraine on the frontline with my friends and my colleagues who are there now? Is it right to be here in a safe place, in comfortable conditions and doing what we do?

You always question yourself about that. This moment is quite heavy. I remember when you question yourself about that, there is always an answer sent by God. For example, there was an answer with Sasha Teren when he tells to all of the dancers, including me, that the work we did and do is very important, very influential and very impactful. Because as I say, a ballet is a soft power which not only Russia uses, but we also use it to bring attention and awareness about the war in Ukraine. And at the same time, raising the money for humanitarian aid. And at the same time, I know many dancers, including me, we personally also

donate for our friends who are in the military to help them to buy all the necessary equipment. So in that case, I understand that while we are useful for Ukraine and as a support line for the frontline, for the soldiers there, I think there is a reason to be here. When we don't have an opportunity to help our country abroad, then there is a time to go back. Over two years ago, you said Ukraine had already won the war on account of its strengthened national identity. And when the fighting eventually is over, how do you think you'll describe your contribution to the Ukrainian war effort? At that moment, when I say that, like many Ukrainians, I felt a sense of victory, both national and international, because of the unity that Russian invasion, military aggression has provoked.

Now honestly, it's quite difficult for me to speak about any sense of victory. Considering how many lives have been lost in this war and how much blood has been spilled and how many people and their families have been suffered and their lives have been destroyed by Russia. It's very hard to even use the word of victory after all of that. I'm sorry to say that, but also, especially when I see now with the new government in the United States, the United States for us is a country we relied on and whose values we shared and continue to share. So much blood has been shed in Ukraine and now a new government in the U.S. trying to take the side of the aggressor, forgiving all the war crimes committed on pro-American territory. So, yeah, I mean, I'm quite concerned about the

term of victory. But Alexis, I want to tell you that what impresses me about your activism is, yes, you're fully aware and your colleagues in the troop are fully aware of the sacrifices of their families and the fighting that's going on. But you have the opportunity to travel the world and you have the opportunity to represent your country and at every performance at the end the Ukrainian flag is held up and you're influencing so many people and you don't know who those people are. You don't know what type of political connections they have, what type of financial resources they have, what impact your performance is going to have on inspiring them to get involved in helping your people.

So it's not that one part is more important than the other. One part may carry more danger, but your cultural activism is a form of diplomacy. And so, you know, I want to applaud you for everything that you've done and for what you've gone through in your life. I mean, as someone who spent a lot of time in Russia and really had those ties severed and came out as a strong advocate for his country at a time of real need. And I don't want to diminish what you've done. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. I just want to say thanks to you and to bring light to and again keep talking about war in Ukraine because it's very important. It's very important to keep people aware. And I mean, people in the Western countries are aware about this horrific situation which we have. I mean, like always,

I just want to thanks to our defenders and to God that he defend our defenders. Well, Alexis, I really want to thank you for being my guest on All About Change, for telling your story, for doing what you've done for your country. And I wish you to go from strength to strength. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for invitation and for highlighting Ukraine and war. Thank you so much for listening to All About Change.

Today's episode was produced by Tani Levitt and Mijon Zulu. To check out more episodes or learn more about the show, you can visit our website, allaboutchangepodcast.com. If you like our show, spread the word, tell a friend or family member, or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. We'd really appreciate it. All About Change is produced by the Ruderman Family Foundation. That's all for now. I'm Jay Ruderman, and we'll see you soon with another episode of All About Change. Au revoir, but not goodbye.

Au revoir, but not goodbye.